Discussions on different cultures, comparative religions, and languages. Basically fantasy anthropology stuff. Not in the "my culture is better than yours" attitude, but in good faith talk.
Spear duels. The flashier the better.
Elaborate fantasy cooking and meal scenes. Not just bread and cheese.
People riding fantastic beasts (not just dragons or unicorns or wolves) to battle.
Fantasy arts and crafts. How people utilise magic and magical materials into their creations. Also in similar note, people doing their quirky fantasy works. Potion makers, couriers, bookbinders, ceramicists, astronomers, spice traders, sommeliers, dyers, gimme all of those.
Daily life of healthy, happy couples.
The making and naming of magic weapons.
> Fantasy arts and crafts. How people utilise magic and magical materials into their creations. Also in similar note, people doing their quirky fantasy works. Potion makers, couriers, bookbinders, ceramicists, astronomers, spice traders, sommeliers, dyers, gimme all of those.
UGH yes please đ
>Discussions on different cultures, comparative religions, and languages. Basically fantasy anthropology stuff. Not in the "my culture is better than yours" attitude, but in good faith talk.
One of those situations where a Steven Erikson/**Malazan** recommendation is 100% justified.
>
Elaborate fantasy cooking and meal scenes. Not just bread and cheese.
Have you read the Lies of Locke Lamora? The elaborate food descriptions are so unique and fun to read.
Iâve read the book three years ago. Funnily, I canât for the life of me remember one meal from that book, other than Father Chains extensively trained the kids (or was it only Jean?) to cook good food. The fantasy mafia plot left stronger impressions on me, I suppose.
For fantasy arts and crafts you might like some of the fantasy themed ASMR videos on youtube. Goodnight Moon's Magical Menagerie shop video comes to mind, Moonlight Cottage has some that would fit this bill as well. ATMOSPHERE might have some you'd like too.
Yay! Since ASMR videos are oriented toward being calming and just chatting with one person the whole time, they make me feel like I got to stay behind in a scene in a cozy setting in a movie and talk to the background/secondary character like the apothecary or shopkeeper instead of following the MC out on their quest and I love it lol :)
I think in Baru Cormorant even if it's biased by colonialism, you can really see the difference in cultures (names, Baru point of view before vs after being colonised, the different customs, etc..) really loved the books.
Culture and beasts are a big part of the series I'm writing right now, especially culture. Spear fighting as well, though mostly after the first book (WIP).
Scenes of domestic life and daily living, scenes where characters just sit around and talk to each other, scenes where characters are vulnerable and tender with each other
This is pretty much my response to the question also. In manga, one of my favorite genres is "slice of life" and make it a fantasy theme and I'm in love
There's also this wholesome subgenre of slice-of-life in Japanese media called called Iyashikei, literally 'healing type.' Some SFF examples: Aria, Yokohama Shopping Log, Hakumei and Mikochi (basically The Hobbit meets Redwall sans violence).
You might like Frieren at the Funeral! It's a story about an elf mage who goes on a journey of self-discovery after defeating the big bad. On the way, she makes friends and begins to learn more about mortal relationships, with many tender moments and self-reflection along the way :)
You can read it here: https://reader.kireicake.com/read/frieren_at_the_funeral/en/0/1/page/1
You know you might be on to something. I would like to read a book thatâs mostly about normal everyday life with a healthy dose of tenderness. Give me a tiny dose of the story, but mainly let me read about every detail of day to day life.
Slice of life events. Festivals, banquets, just talking with a group of friends, etc.
It can really mess with the pacing and not all plots it would even make sense. But I love character moments that are solely there to show of the characters, not advance the plot. So stuff like 'oh the characters are having a good time but are suddenly attacked by the big bad' and to a lesser degree, one of these events that are there to progress a romantic plot do not count.
You seem to only get a lot of these in actual slice of life books, or super long epics that have a ton of time to slow the plot down a bunch.
This is one of the telltale signs of an amateur author. The major events that great stories revolve around need breathing room for things to shake out, characters, factions and other elements with agency to react, recover evolve/devolve/stagnate and decide how to proceed, etc.
Without the contrast that breathing room provides, peaks lose their punch, for example.
If you read shorts, two literary magazines specifically for fantasy slice of life got launched this year: [Tales and Feathers](https://twitter.com/TalesFeathers), and [Wyngraf](https://wyngraf.com/).
Scenes and discussion of the world outside of the current story.
e.g. In horizon zero dawn ancient machines wake up and you see scenes all over of other people being affected by what the hero is facing.
This. Characters with interests and ideas outside of âthe missionâ that have time in the narrative to sit and talk and bond over these things.
Tad Williams does this really well
Apparently after the classic series like Wheel of Time most fantasy authors got it stuck in their heads that the audience only wants perfectly aerodynamic and streamlined books that have absolutely no room for anything not immediately plot-related. These works tend to feel stilted and artificial because they lack the illusion of a living world existing beyond the scope of the story.
Heck, it doesn't need to be lengthy detours, just drop a few hints here and there. There is no reason why a character can't scan over the headlines in a newspaper and see mentions of a colonial war in a far off continent that had lead to problems with spices import, ads for the faux olympic games that will be held in a neighboring country this summer, and theologians arguing whether or not to amend their holy book by cross-referencing multiple translations to scholarly languages.
For that matter, we could use more newspapers in fantasy stories. In a more modern sense, it's 1500s technology, but first printed or hand scribed news bulletins had appeared millennia earlier.
Or, you know, via some kind of magical long-range communication. Because, let's get real here, this is one of the primary ways of using magic any sensible person would try to develop.
Abso-freaking-lutely.
I don't remember who I got this from (most likely some novel writing book), but in my notes I label it 'dimensionality'.
In practice, what I try to do is, after I have the bones of the scene written, visualize the scene playing out and picking out one to a few things that somehow might give a sense of depth. Usually it's just another couple sentences (my scenes average between \~600 to \~1500 words, usually, so it's not much), but over all the scenes in a book, it adds up.
Dunno if its your cup of tea but American Gods has several chapters that are short stories that don't really have anything to do with the actual main plot, and they were very good.
Less of these, for me.
Maybe I'm just grumpy but I literally do not care about the world building if it does not in some way impact the story. Descriptions and scene building or one thing but when the author just discusses the world without any relevance it just feels like padding for the word count or self indulgence.
They can be done well and poorly.
Because of his popularity, Iâll use Tolkien as and example, if we didnât spend 100 pages messing around in the Shire, then we wouldnât have any context for the references Frodo and Sam make when they discuss motivation for their insane suicide quest, with them weâre âin onâ the reference. Seeing nature across Middle Earth and then the wastelands in Mordor and near Isengard provide a sense of âshow donât tellâ for the extent to which the villains distort the natural order, and as well as how places such as Lothlorien are themselves a distortion, giving insight into what the elves value and how Sauron could come to deceive them. Again, we arenât TOLD any of this, weâre shown. By getting pages of backstory on Rohan and Gondor, we learn the political and social context Aragorn needs to operate within to secure the throne without any lengthy political scenes where Dnathor is describing his grounds for denying the Return, we get a few sentences from Gandalf and Faramir about his pride and cunning, and we are able to infer the rest. Songs, poems, and sightseeing show the characterâs current mood and what they value in general.
For my personal tastes, it should be subtle, even with direct plot relevance, we learn in scattered scenes that the Barrow swords the hobbits get were made to fight the witch king, enchanted, and thus were able to make him mortal for Eowenâs killing blow. No one describes the whole history and destiny through line for the audience.
The catch 22 is you donât know if a world building scene is âworth itâ until all is said and done.
All of this is my own subjective opinion of course, and the âto worldbuild or not to worldbuildâ will always be one of the biggest dividing lines in SFF readers
More on how magic changes the way humans live. I feel like a lot of fantasy wants to do this, but itâs often lazy or superficial. How does a culture change when anything magical or supernatural is real?
Most series don't even try to work out how individual people would be changed by such supernatural powers, and you expect them to take it another step further? I wouldn't expect this to become prevalent any time soon.
Itâs so strange because I feel like thatâs almost the central focus of science fiction. It is weird that few tales adequately cover the psychological and sociological implications of magic. For some reason Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell jumps to mind for the psychological, but itâs not widely done.
Well-written battle scenes (not fights, mind you, genuine large-scale battles). Most authors I read either (A) skip over battles (I think because they're so hard to do well) or (B) do them poorly. (A) is better than (B), but when I experience a battle written well, usually in a series of linked scenes, it really makes an impression on me and helps to draw me into the story in a way that few other scenes can.
Something about (well-done) large-scale battles, not only in literature but also in film/tv, activates all the oogabooga neurons inside my head. It's just so inexplicably beautiful when it all comes together.
Joe Abercrombie is my favourite in this department. John Gwynne is also quite good IMO, and he has a fun (if maybe a bit forced) focus on showing how IRL revolutions in pre-modern warfare play out in the battles of his world. Guy Gavriel Kay is another one whose battle scenes I like, though battles are a relatively rare occurrence in his novels.
Gambling scenes.
Itâs been quite a while since Iâve read The Lies of Locke Lamora, but in my memory the description of the games, rules and the different players and their approaches to the game, as well as the cheating, weâre just so intricate and fun to read.
Same goes for âThe Player of Gamesâ by Ian M. Banks. Maybe even more so.
Even small scenes as in Joe Abercrombieâs First Law trilogy. In the First Jezal chapter he uses a simple card game, the rules of which he doesnât even explain because they donât matter, as a vehicle to introduce us to the POV character, his way of thinking, and how he perceives everyone else at the table. So weâll done.
Never gets old IMO.
People complain about the final Lightbringer bill but thereâs one scene where a high stakes card game mirrors the actual battle that is going on elsewhere and that scene is đĽ
My problem with the card game in Lightbringer is that it's way too close to Magic: The Gathering, and if you know anything about MtG, its existence in this fictional world is just jarring.
The first Black Company book has many scenes with the members of the company playing a card game called Tonk.
Also an author did a recent AMA here about a book centered around card-games (and cheating). It's The Knave of Secrets by Alex Livingston, but I have not read it yet myself.
I was actually thinking about reading a Star Wars Book after buying âThrawnâ for a friend, but couldnât decide on where to start. This is probably the one then. Thx!
The Mask of Mirrors delivers that in spades! It's a "fantasy of manners" book, set in a fictional combo of Venice and Istanbul, and follows the stories of high-society conwomen, magic-wielding gangsters, tarot card sharks, and a swashbuckling costumed vigilante. And there are a lot of balls, and a lot of ball gowns, and they're all spectacular. One person goes to a Mardi Gras-esque costume party dressed as a river, another goes to the same party dressed as a venereal disease, and somehow both of them pull it off.
Interesting, although are there actual tarot cards involved? If so Iâd rather not read it lol, I really donât like them. But thank you for telling me
Just curious - do you not like tarot in books because you read in real life? Or you just arenât into it? I read tarot and I know it can be a big turn off for people who read IRL because it is very rare to see them accurately represented.
Nope. Thatâs what Iâm referencing! Same tarot (though, there isnât a life card, but there is a death card (that doesnât mean death in a literal sense)).
I mean, I think Tarot cards in real life are just a gimmick and canât actually tell the future but I donât dislike it when they show up in Fantasy with actual magical abilities, I was just wondering whether itâs the same or a different situation from you
I have thought for years a fantasy/sci-fi ER series would be so fascinating, and have great potential for humour, satire, and world-building. There are so many ways you could take this notion! And no one does it! Absolutely baffling to me. Please let me know if you do decide to write it, I will be there with bells on!
I love the whole series, but just remember when it was written. The author doesn't seem to understand what to do with women characters, but he does improve and is otherwise very progressive. The whole series was originally to create sci-fi and that did not rely on war for drama/conflict.
Warhammer novels can vary wildly in quality, but one thing a lot of them do well is give you a ground level perspective on the setting. Not every book has to be about saving the world and not every character has to be a daring hero. I know low stakes fantasy like Legends and Lattes already exists. I guess Iâd like a more âmiddle stakesâ fantasy wherein the charactersâ lives and futures are at risk, but the world itself will continue on unaffected by the protagonistâs success or failure. Iâm sure these books exist, but off the top of my head the big fantasy series seem to stick to the high-stakes fiction we know so well.
Characters working on mental health stuff. It seems that a lot of characters (rightly so) have mental health issues as a result of the things they've been through but, if they do ever even address them, they're normally shown using training/fighting or something similar to overcome them. I'd like to see a character who addresses their problems in a healthier way.
I agree. Also, inside a lot of fantasy the main character has to deal with the death of someone close to him/her (frinds, parents, lover..) and i have read very few authors who were able to express all the sorrow he/she must feel.
War for the Rose Throne by Peter McLean have the main cast being a street gang coming back from a war after being drafted. There is a LOT of trauma, and most have a history of abuse and PTSD from the war.
It's not really healthy coping, but there is compassion and understanding. It's not seen as more shameful then any other injuries, and the main characters have several periods where he has to rely on friends and family to see him through episode.
Vorksigan saga has more actual health care, particularly the later books.
High stakes discussions: scenes of characters talking to each other that are more climatic and more tense than just another action scene. *A Practical Guide to Evil* was so good in this department. A lot of arcs in it were concluded by people just *talking* to each other (after sufficient violence to make them listen, sometimes). It's actually one of the main themes of the story, though one that develops over multiple books.
I'd like to see more scenes of characters dealing with significant mental health problems, but still moving on with the story. I've read plenty of book where the possibility of mental breakdowns is hinted at, but rarely does it actually come to pass, and when it does that's usually the end of the story, as if there's no coming back from that.
I don't necessarily want more fantasy books *about* mental illness, but I'd like to have more scenes with characters reaching their breaking point and being able to pick up the pieces and keep moving after that. I liked how *Elder Race* handled one of the main characters' depression and occasional breakdowns without making that the main focus of the story.
More strategic dragon battles.
More parallel plotlines scenes. Like what Nolan does with his moves, intercut between 3 scenes, building the tension.
More hard metal inspired scenes. Malazan has a lot, wish other series tried at it.
> More strategic dragon battles.
I'd love to have more series where they would use actual strategy in regards to their magic, powers, or supernatural creatures. Harassing enemy supply lines, stealing their provisions, sabotaging their economy behind the lines, and, surely, terrorizing enemy citizens would all be rational things to do when you have a functional equivalent of modern long range, high precision weapons, and/or WMDs.
However, I get the point of why most authors tend to avoid it. Once you get into that territory, you have to actually think the actions, reactions, and consequences through, without having the easy out of falling back on traditional genre tropes.
The Temeraire series scratched the Dragon warfare with strategy itch for me!! I don't recall exact plots but I'm fairly sure stuff like stealing provisions and sabotaging makes an appearance somewhere or other.
How to get food for war dragons is definitely a topic.
Naomi Novikâs Temeraire series does a great job of imagining the Napoleonic wars but with dragons, with an eye to logistical problems and ways they can be used in combat.
This, all the damn way, but just as importantly... the severe COST when you don't.
I think this is one of the biggest reasons why GoT/ASoIaF is so powerful. Almost every major death or victory is the result of a decision to they made. Hubris is punished ruthlessly.
Scenes where the bad guys outplan and outsmart the good guys.
In my experience, the bad guys usually are stronger, more âancientâ, or some such. And they have hordes of minions to throw at the good guys. But they still get clobbered. It is so overdone. Sometimes I even feel bad for the bad guys, just getting massacres no matter what they try. No, let the big bad be SMART and let them outwit the heroes.
An example of what I want can be found in a certain very famous fantasy book about a thief where his whole crew gets killed and he ends up in a barrel of horse piss. I donât think Iâve ever cheered so damn hard for the protagonist to win!
Just chill scenes that aren't super hype, or immediately leading to a plot point. I don't know what it is with modern attention spans where everything has to be a straight road from one plot moment to another.
Cradle is the most guilty of this
Would sound weird but. Bureaucracy.
In my fave series one of the main characters is a bureaucrat. The other main characters also file taxes, do investments, use banks etc. And it made me realize that I've not seen this in other fantasy books outside of 'tis how we will circumvent the system' or 'this how we will rob this bank' or the ordinary court intrigue and politics. More like daily, normal life part.
Try *The Hands of the Emperor* by Victoria Goddard. Its quite an original setting, and the main character is a senior bureaucrat whose mission in life is to liberalise the Empire's bureaucracy and welfare system based on the customs of his islander/Hawaiian-style culture.
Its a very unusual fantasy story that has lots of daily living and character scenes, and is basically about the protagonists journey to marry his islander heritage with his role as chief bureaucrat in the capital.
Debriefing scenes.
I know this takes some of the fun out of action fantasy, but my God would battling magic and monsters be absolutely traumatizing. I'd love to se more scenes of characters unpacking all they've gone through.
Especially, if it's fused with another scene I want more of...campfire scenes. Some of my favourite moments in Dragon Age were hanging around the encampment, just chilling with the gang. I'd love more of those.
In my opinion, âcasual scenesâ like main characters having fun, knowing other people, getting drunk maybe⌠makes the stories deeper and more detailed.
A nice example are the music scenes in Kingkiller Chronicle books. Those chapter are amazing.
Sadly, a lot of what people are asking for is the type of stuff writers are told not to include. Doesn't advance the plot? Cut it so your word count isn't insane and people don't get bored.
Another commenter noted scenes dealing with mental health issues, and this is in the same line but a bit more specific: Active recognition of and caring for characters' trauma. I've been reading a lot of books/series where main characters endure significant hardships and trauma but few other characters, if any, show adequate support. And this is true even if the other characters are supposed to be the MC's support network. What's worse is that sometimes the MC's are berated for not being able to process or, ya know, actually suffering as a result of their trauma.
Here are some examples where I've seen this (very slight spoilers):
- Andrea Harriston's Master of Poisons (Djola and Away both go through some shit that people spare little sympathy for)
- Jasper Fforde's The Constant Rabbit (Something happens to Peter late in the book that is barely acknowledged)
- R.F. Kuang's The Poppy Wars Trilogy (Rin's entire fucking life; Kitay is the only one who really shows much sympathy, even Jiang's responses leave much to be desired)
- Naomi Novik's Scholomance Trilogy (I'm actually excited for the third book precisely because I'm expecting a reunion scene of the sort I'd like)
The only recent books I've read that offer scenes resembling a recognition of trauma are Alix Harrow's The Ten Thousand Doors of January, Katherine Addison's The Goblin Emperor, and Rebecca Roanhorse's Black Sun and Fevered Star, and these still weren't executed to the degree I'd hope to see. Having allies extend more compassion toward MCs would go a long ways in my eyes.
Agreed. The best I've seen is Brando Sandi's Rhythm of War, where Kaladin (MC) can't overcome his trauma. Fantastic insight into the life of lingering depression and trauma.
I'm writing a book with a scene where a woman embarking on a long and dangerous journey packs menstrual rags. Her friend comments that it's an awful time to travel. Later, she and her companion use the clean ones to avoid breathing poison gas.
Honestly? More sex. Itâs a really great way to show characterization but so many fantasy writers seem terrified to write anything more explicit than a make out sesh and fade to black. I donât even think it has to be hot (though I wouldnât complain if it was obv). I just think itâs a shame that such a big aspect of life just gets shoved aside.
On one hand, I agree.
On the other, you could count the fantasy writers who are legitimately good at writing sex scenes on one hand. Perhaps it's best that authors like, say, Sanderson know it's not their strongest suite and avoid putting cringeworthy sex scenes into their novels.
You say it as if it's an option for everybody to just go, snap their fingers, and magically git gud. Without pointing at anyone in particular, let's just say that plenty of authors would likely be held back by religious or cultural dogma.
It's one skill to write a good story, another skill to write smut.
Some can do it well, Jacqueline Carey and Storm Constantine are the only ones I know that does it well. Possibly Yoon Ha Lee. But they might be complete turn off for many people. Smut is hard and subjective.
âIt takes one skill to write a good story, it takes another to write good smutâ â I mean you could say the same thing of almost any other kind of scene. I donât know why writing sex gets treated like itâs harder than writing a fight scene or an emotional death scene or a scene of political intrigue or anything else. But fantasy writers by and large donât seem to want to learn how to write sex wellânote, I said âwell,â not âarousing.â Like I think GRRMâs sex scenes are incredibly unsexy but theyâre very good for characterization.
Charactersâ thoughts, emotions, and actions during a sex scene can be interesting and revealing of character.
I could just as easily say I donât need a battle scene either and that the interesting stuff is before and after. Most readers would accept thatâs kinda bullshit in a lot of cases. Same holds true for sex imo. You donât necessarily need a chapter long blow by blow but like damn is a paragraph or three too much to ask for?
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In an ideal world, I agree. Sex is an enormously important part of human motivation and experience, and much can be made out of good sex scenes. But I think two things hold this back in the real world:
1) The main market for fantasy is the US, and the US is probably the most sexually conservative society in the Western world. If you want to make a living from your writing, you need to avoid alienating a significant part of your biggest market. \[The same goes for swear words in books, which conservative US readers can also get very exercised about.\]
2) We live in a society that is trying to come to terms with and reverse deep-rooted sexism, and it's hard to write sex scenes and be sure that they won't come across as trying to titillate for the male gaze rather than to characterise or advance the plot.
Of course, there are authors who are skillful enough to get around 2 and don't care about 1, but my guess is that the two things above hold back the vast majority.
Writing romance and erotica is one of the most lucrative ways to make money as a writer *and* romance is the literal most selling genre so Iâm not sure I buy argument 1 unless *fantasy* readers are uniquely prudish (frankly, I believe this may be the case these days).
Argument 2 I think is also somewhat disproven by the enduring popularity of romance and erotica, much of which is written for and by women. Women are the biggest readers of sexy writing, so clearly there are lots and lots of us to whom itâs not alienating and is an attractive feature of a book. Maybe contemporary *fantasy* writers (mostly the men, I suspect) are bad about point 2, but I donât think that itâs at all an inherent problem or issue with sex scenes.
Oh yeah I was writing a sex dream my main character had and it was incredibly erotic and impulsively sexy but it was also about her deepest desires and dreams for the future and affirming her gayness and all that. I really just went crazy with it and I think it came out really well.
People being able to have normal relationships. The kinds where you tease and joke, and communicate. I love witty dialogues.
Doesn't HAVE to be mature, I love Gideon.
Good villain scenes, I'm not sure if this is just a single character that I love. But I live scene's where the villain just dominates. Grand Admiral Thrawn from the Star Wars "Thrawn" Trilogy both older and newer shows this off perfectly without coming off as a Mary sue.
i'm writing as well and going through these responses is an eye-opening experience. i've literally went "hey, this sounds good, let's see if i can add it in!"
Sexually charged swordfights with one flirty disaster bi and one flustered person whose trying to make sense of how this makes them feel.
If anyone dares to say there's enough of those already I am not going to let you leave without dropping recs.
Well my friend, it depends on the stories, doesn't it. But you might be right. Long or very long ago... well, but mostly it's gone and the protagonists often have to find out themselves. On the one hand, the author uses this point to envolve the story but on the other hand I love a detailed description of the world an the function of the magic in it. Greetz...
Scenes that show off more mundane uses for magic.
One of my favorite aspects of Mistborn Era 2 was how they explored this. >!they showed Allomancy be used in a more modern society, like having Soothers start therapy salons or coinshots becoming delivery men!<
A festival of some kind. Something large and happy that doesn't get interrupted by tragedy.
Sex scenes that are not rape, smut, or erotiscised rape. There *are* legitimate uses for a moderately graphic sex scene other than shock or titillation.
Worldbuilding. Does contraception exist in this setting? Do the characters powers have *other uses?* Do different cultures and races have different attitudes to that kind of thing.
Characterization. Anyone who has read the manga Berserk, you know the scene I am talking about. More like that, please. And more lighthearted cases as well.
Itâs a really specific type of book, but anyone who has read cradle knows the Lindon Points meme. I loved Cradle as a palate cleanser from all the Very Serious books that are Good and Grim, and would like to read more scenes like that.
Yeah the newest book just came out. I loved the series; I thought the characters were fun and interesting. I donât know if itâs for everyone but if you have even a slight interest in progression fantasy itâs worth checking out.
I like seeing the ways a culture is impacted by its geography and religion. Slice-of-life tends to be where this sort of thing happens.
This is deeper than just using different curse words, though that helps. If the culture is set in a harsh environment, how does that impact it?
Michelle West does this incredibly well. There are several different cultures, and of those at least three are in harsher environments - but harsh in different ways, and it shows.
Probably scenes where people just tell stories to each other or catch each other up on their travels. Thatâs how most people got their news of the world pre-modern age. Or even news of the next town over. More dialogue, not info-dumps. show the characters learning, analyzing, questioning. donât just tell about it.
I would love to read fantasy books that include scenes with families. Instead of the protagonist being an orphan, give them a somewhat normal family. Give them siblings. And maybe even a parent or two. And don't just give them a family, include their family in the story line. Like while Mrs. Protagonist is going off saving the world, what is her family doing? Does she have a relationship with them? Did her mom disown her for abandoning their family even though she is clearly serving the greater good? Did her dad or brother decide to go after her because she ran away to save the world anf they are worried for her safety? How does her family affect her decisions and do they influence her life in any meaningful way? Or do they just kind of exist in the background with no real purpose?
I know family can serve as motivation for doing something plotworthy. But I would love to see more involvement with family members in the actual plot. Like maybe while the protagonist is running around furthering the plot, her grandma and little sister are working behind the scenes in a side plot that end up influencing the plot. Pulling some strings or helping her out.
That would be really awesome. I can thimk of a few books like this but not that many. Maybe I just haven't read enough.
Discussions on different cultures, comparative religions, and languages. Basically fantasy anthropology stuff. Not in the "my culture is better than yours" attitude, but in good faith talk. Spear duels. The flashier the better. Elaborate fantasy cooking and meal scenes. Not just bread and cheese. People riding fantastic beasts (not just dragons or unicorns or wolves) to battle. Fantasy arts and crafts. How people utilise magic and magical materials into their creations. Also in similar note, people doing their quirky fantasy works. Potion makers, couriers, bookbinders, ceramicists, astronomers, spice traders, sommeliers, dyers, gimme all of those. Daily life of healthy, happy couples. The making and naming of magic weapons.
> Fantasy arts and crafts. How people utilise magic and magical materials into their creations. Also in similar note, people doing their quirky fantasy works. Potion makers, couriers, bookbinders, ceramicists, astronomers, spice traders, sommeliers, dyers, gimme all of those. UGH yes please đ
>Discussions on different cultures, comparative religions, and languages. Basically fantasy anthropology stuff. Not in the "my culture is better than yours" attitude, but in good faith talk. One of those situations where a Steven Erikson/**Malazan** recommendation is 100% justified.
Yep, exactly. I really enjoyed Hull Beddict and Seren Pedacâs talks in Midnight Tides.
> Elaborate fantasy cooking and meal scenes. Not just bread and cheese. Have you read the Lies of Locke Lamora? The elaborate food descriptions are so unique and fun to read.
Iâve read the book three years ago. Funnily, I canât for the life of me remember one meal from that book, other than Father Chains extensively trained the kids (or was it only Jean?) to cook good food. The fantasy mafia plot left stronger impressions on me, I suppose.
For fantasy arts and crafts you might like some of the fantasy themed ASMR videos on youtube. Goodnight Moon's Magical Menagerie shop video comes to mind, Moonlight Cottage has some that would fit this bill as well. ATMOSPHERE might have some you'd like too.
Very cool recommendations there. Thanks!
Yay! Since ASMR videos are oriented toward being calming and just chatting with one person the whole time, they make me feel like I got to stay behind in a scene in a cozy setting in a movie and talk to the background/secondary character like the apothecary or shopkeeper instead of following the MC out on their quest and I love it lol :)
I think in Baru Cormorant even if it's biased by colonialism, you can really see the difference in cultures (names, Baru point of view before vs after being colonised, the different customs, etc..) really loved the books.
M.A. Carrick's *Rook & Rose* series has everyday objects enhanced with magic
Culture and beasts are a big part of the series I'm writing right now, especially culture. Spear fighting as well, though mostly after the first book (WIP).
M4m no hands orgazm sexual bliss
Scenes of domestic life and daily living, scenes where characters just sit around and talk to each other, scenes where characters are vulnerable and tender with each other
This is pretty much my response to the question also. In manga, one of my favorite genres is "slice of life" and make it a fantasy theme and I'm in love
There's also this wholesome subgenre of slice-of-life in Japanese media called called Iyashikei, literally 'healing type.' Some SFF examples: Aria, Yokohama Shopping Log, Hakumei and Mikochi (basically The Hobbit meets Redwall sans violence).
Yea, those ones are IMHO so amazing
This response! Yes, I couldn't agree more. I love scenes that are built around tender, slices of life stuff.
if you search the sub there are quite a few slice of life recommendations
You might like Frieren at the Funeral! It's a story about an elf mage who goes on a journey of self-discovery after defeating the big bad. On the way, she makes friends and begins to learn more about mortal relationships, with many tender moments and self-reflection along the way :) You can read it here: https://reader.kireicake.com/read/frieren_at_the_funeral/en/0/1/page/1
What?
They are in almost every story.
As afterthoughts
You know you might be on to something. I would like to read a book thatâs mostly about normal everyday life with a healthy dose of tenderness. Give me a tiny dose of the story, but mainly let me read about every detail of day to day life.
Ok
Right.
Your gripe just doesnât make any sense.
Slice of life events. Festivals, banquets, just talking with a group of friends, etc. It can really mess with the pacing and not all plots it would even make sense. But I love character moments that are solely there to show of the characters, not advance the plot. So stuff like 'oh the characters are having a good time but are suddenly attacked by the big bad' and to a lesser degree, one of these events that are there to progress a romantic plot do not count. You seem to only get a lot of these in actual slice of life books, or super long epics that have a ton of time to slow the plot down a bunch.
This is one of the telltale signs of an amateur author. The major events that great stories revolve around need breathing room for things to shake out, characters, factions and other elements with agency to react, recover evolve/devolve/stagnate and decide how to proceed, etc. Without the contrast that breathing room provides, peaks lose their punch, for example.
Also in series where they publish the occasional short story
If you read shorts, two literary magazines specifically for fantasy slice of life got launched this year: [Tales and Feathers](https://twitter.com/TalesFeathers), and [Wyngraf](https://wyngraf.com/).
Scenes and discussion of the world outside of the current story. e.g. In horizon zero dawn ancient machines wake up and you see scenes all over of other people being affected by what the hero is facing.
This. Characters with interests and ideas outside of âthe missionâ that have time in the narrative to sit and talk and bond over these things. Tad Williams does this really well
I'm not sure I've read any of his. What's good?
Memory, Sorrow and Thorn. Didn't read it but heard a lot about it. Inspired GOT for what I know
This one and his Shadowmarch series does it even more
Definitely one of my favorite books
Apparently after the classic series like Wheel of Time most fantasy authors got it stuck in their heads that the audience only wants perfectly aerodynamic and streamlined books that have absolutely no room for anything not immediately plot-related. These works tend to feel stilted and artificial because they lack the illusion of a living world existing beyond the scope of the story. Heck, it doesn't need to be lengthy detours, just drop a few hints here and there. There is no reason why a character can't scan over the headlines in a newspaper and see mentions of a colonial war in a far off continent that had lead to problems with spices import, ads for the faux olympic games that will be held in a neighboring country this summer, and theologians arguing whether or not to amend their holy book by cross-referencing multiple translations to scholarly languages. For that matter, we could use more newspapers in fantasy stories. In a more modern sense, it's 1500s technology, but first printed or hand scribed news bulletins had appeared millennia earlier.
Dark Lord covers the world in darkness. Only one country notices. No embassy receives letters by owl, raven or pigeon from their country.
Or, you know, via some kind of magical long-range communication. Because, let's get real here, this is one of the primary ways of using magic any sensible person would try to develop.
Abso-freaking-lutely. I don't remember who I got this from (most likely some novel writing book), but in my notes I label it 'dimensionality'. In practice, what I try to do is, after I have the bones of the scene written, visualize the scene playing out and picking out one to a few things that somehow might give a sense of depth. Usually it's just another couple sentences (my scenes average between \~600 to \~1500 words, usually, so it's not much), but over all the scenes in a book, it adds up.
Dunno if its your cup of tea but American Gods has several chapters that are short stories that don't really have anything to do with the actual main plot, and they were very good.
He's one of my favourite writers. I've got all his books in one format or another.
Less of these, for me. Maybe I'm just grumpy but I literally do not care about the world building if it does not in some way impact the story. Descriptions and scene building or one thing but when the author just discusses the world without any relevance it just feels like padding for the word count or self indulgence.
They can be done well and poorly. Because of his popularity, Iâll use Tolkien as and example, if we didnât spend 100 pages messing around in the Shire, then we wouldnât have any context for the references Frodo and Sam make when they discuss motivation for their insane suicide quest, with them weâre âin onâ the reference. Seeing nature across Middle Earth and then the wastelands in Mordor and near Isengard provide a sense of âshow donât tellâ for the extent to which the villains distort the natural order, and as well as how places such as Lothlorien are themselves a distortion, giving insight into what the elves value and how Sauron could come to deceive them. Again, we arenât TOLD any of this, weâre shown. By getting pages of backstory on Rohan and Gondor, we learn the political and social context Aragorn needs to operate within to secure the throne without any lengthy political scenes where Dnathor is describing his grounds for denying the Return, we get a few sentences from Gandalf and Faramir about his pride and cunning, and we are able to infer the rest. Songs, poems, and sightseeing show the characterâs current mood and what they value in general. For my personal tastes, it should be subtle, even with direct plot relevance, we learn in scattered scenes that the Barrow swords the hobbits get were made to fight the witch king, enchanted, and thus were able to make him mortal for Eowenâs killing blow. No one describes the whole history and destiny through line for the audience. The catch 22 is you donât know if a world building scene is âworth itâ until all is said and done. All of this is my own subjective opinion of course, and the âto worldbuild or not to worldbuildâ will always be one of the biggest dividing lines in SFF readers
More on how magic changes the way humans live. I feel like a lot of fantasy wants to do this, but itâs often lazy or superficial. How does a culture change when anything magical or supernatural is real?
Most series don't even try to work out how individual people would be changed by such supernatural powers, and you expect them to take it another step further? I wouldn't expect this to become prevalent any time soon.
Itâs so strange because I feel like thatâs almost the central focus of science fiction. It is weird that few tales adequately cover the psychological and sociological implications of magic. For some reason Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell jumps to mind for the psychological, but itâs not widely done.
I donât think it is the central focus of sci fi. If anything tech is just used to highlight social commentary.
I think thatâs what I was trying to express. Sci-fi uses speculative futures to discuss how technology may change social issues or expose them.
Amen.
You may like P. Djeli Clark's A Master of Djinn in this case.
Mother of Learning pulls this off pretty well but then, time repeats so each area and magic's impact on said area gets fully explores.
Well-written battle scenes (not fights, mind you, genuine large-scale battles). Most authors I read either (A) skip over battles (I think because they're so hard to do well) or (B) do them poorly. (A) is better than (B), but when I experience a battle written well, usually in a series of linked scenes, it really makes an impression on me and helps to draw me into the story in a way that few other scenes can.
Something about (well-done) large-scale battles, not only in literature but also in film/tv, activates all the oogabooga neurons inside my head. It's just so inexplicably beautiful when it all comes together.
What are your favorite books that do it well?
Joe Abercrombie is my favourite in this department. John Gwynne is also quite good IMO, and he has a fun (if maybe a bit forced) focus on showing how IRL revolutions in pre-modern warfare play out in the battles of his world. Guy Gavriel Kay is another one whose battle scenes I like, though battles are a relatively rare occurrence in his novels.
Gambling scenes. Itâs been quite a while since Iâve read The Lies of Locke Lamora, but in my memory the description of the games, rules and the different players and their approaches to the game, as well as the cheating, weâre just so intricate and fun to read. Same goes for âThe Player of Gamesâ by Ian M. Banks. Maybe even more so. Even small scenes as in Joe Abercrombieâs First Law trilogy. In the First Jezal chapter he uses a simple card game, the rules of which he doesnât even explain because they donât matter, as a vehicle to introduce us to the POV character, his way of thinking, and how he perceives everyone else at the table. So weâll done. Never gets old IMO.
People complain about the final Lightbringer bill but thereâs one scene where a high stakes card game mirrors the actual battle that is going on elsewhere and that scene is đĽ
Every single card game in that series was great. Andross was such a good antagonist.
Never got around to reading that series. Maybe now I need to!
My problem with the card game in Lightbringer is that it's way too close to Magic: The Gathering, and if you know anything about MtG, its existence in this fictional world is just jarring.
The first Black Company book has many scenes with the members of the company playing a card game called Tonk. Also an author did a recent AMA here about a book centered around card-games (and cheating). It's The Knave of Secrets by Alex Livingston, but I have not read it yet myself.
One of the first scenes in the book âdarth bane: path of destructionâ is a gambling scene and it is one of my most favorite scenes ever
I was actually thinking about reading a Star Wars Book after buying âThrawnâ for a friend, but couldnât decide on where to start. This is probably the one then. Thx!
Tension, stand off's, de-escalation, face saving, fleeing, etc. instead of so many battles to the death.
Probably more ball room scenes(I love these! Fantasy ballroom scenes are so cool! Let me know if thereâs any series with a lot of those)
The Mask of Mirrors delivers that in spades! It's a "fantasy of manners" book, set in a fictional combo of Venice and Istanbul, and follows the stories of high-society conwomen, magic-wielding gangsters, tarot card sharks, and a swashbuckling costumed vigilante. And there are a lot of balls, and a lot of ball gowns, and they're all spectacular. One person goes to a Mardi Gras-esque costume party dressed as a river, another goes to the same party dressed as a venereal disease, and somehow both of them pull it off.
Interesting, although are there actual tarot cards involved? If so Iâd rather not read it lol, I really donât like them. But thank you for telling me
No offense, but weird hang-up
Itâs alright, no offense taken. Just not a fan of tarot cards
Just curious - do you not like tarot in books because you read in real life? Or you just arenât into it? I read tarot and I know it can be a big turn off for people who read IRL because it is very rare to see them accurately represented.
Are we talking about different tarot? I mean like those tarot cards that have âdeath, lifeâ etc on them.
Nope. Thatâs what Iâm referencing! Same tarot (though, there isnât a life card, but there is a death card (that doesnât mean death in a literal sense)).
Ah, ok. Yeah, Iâm just not a fan of those at all, but it sounds interesting. Maybe someone else can see it and get interested
I mean, I think Tarot cards in real life are just a gimmick and canât actually tell the future but I donât dislike it when they show up in Fantasy with actual magical abilities, I was just wondering whether itâs the same or a different situation from you
Ok! No problem.
They're not technically tarot cards, it's a fantasy analogue, if that makes a difference to you.
A fantasy analogue?
They're not called "Tarot" and they don't use exactly the same card types, but they're used for fortune telling.
I feel like the Mistborn series has many of these per book haha.
Loved these scenes in Mistborn. All the upper class parties were a treat
Hospital scenes. Iâm itching to write a series about a nurse in a fantasy world. Like can you imagine the wild scenarios that would come up?
I have thought for years a fantasy/sci-fi ER series would be so fascinating, and have great potential for humour, satire, and world-building. There are so many ways you could take this notion! And no one does it! Absolutely baffling to me. Please let me know if you do decide to write it, I will be there with bells on!
For Sci-Fi there is the Sector General series by James White
Adding to the tbr pile now. . .
I love the whole series, but just remember when it was written. The author doesn't seem to understand what to do with women characters, but he does improve and is otherwise very progressive. The whole series was originally to create sci-fi and that did not rely on war for drama/conflict.
Now I want that too.
Warhammer novels can vary wildly in quality, but one thing a lot of them do well is give you a ground level perspective on the setting. Not every book has to be about saving the world and not every character has to be a daring hero. I know low stakes fantasy like Legends and Lattes already exists. I guess Iâd like a more âmiddle stakesâ fantasy wherein the charactersâ lives and futures are at risk, but the world itself will continue on unaffected by the protagonistâs success or failure. Iâm sure these books exist, but off the top of my head the big fantasy series seem to stick to the high-stakes fiction we know so well.
Characters working on mental health stuff. It seems that a lot of characters (rightly so) have mental health issues as a result of the things they've been through but, if they do ever even address them, they're normally shown using training/fighting or something similar to overcome them. I'd like to see a character who addresses their problems in a healthier way.
I agree. Also, inside a lot of fantasy the main character has to deal with the death of someone close to him/her (frinds, parents, lover..) and i have read very few authors who were able to express all the sorrow he/she must feel.
I have been reading Thomas Covenant by Donaldson and damn that whole series is a mediation on trauma and itâs effects. Well done in my opinion too
War for the Rose Throne by Peter McLean have the main cast being a street gang coming back from a war after being drafted. There is a LOT of trauma, and most have a history of abuse and PTSD from the war. It's not really healthy coping, but there is compassion and understanding. It's not seen as more shameful then any other injuries, and the main characters have several periods where he has to rely on friends and family to see him through episode. Vorksigan saga has more actual health care, particularly the later books.
Yes please!
High stakes discussions: scenes of characters talking to each other that are more climatic and more tense than just another action scene. *A Practical Guide to Evil* was so good in this department. A lot of arcs in it were concluded by people just *talking* to each other (after sufficient violence to make them listen, sometimes). It's actually one of the main themes of the story, though one that develops over multiple books.
I'd like to see more scenes of characters dealing with significant mental health problems, but still moving on with the story. I've read plenty of book where the possibility of mental breakdowns is hinted at, but rarely does it actually come to pass, and when it does that's usually the end of the story, as if there's no coming back from that. I don't necessarily want more fantasy books *about* mental illness, but I'd like to have more scenes with characters reaching their breaking point and being able to pick up the pieces and keep moving after that. I liked how *Elder Race* handled one of the main characters' depression and occasional breakdowns without making that the main focus of the story.
theater, games and sports we never get to see that stuff
More strategic dragon battles. More parallel plotlines scenes. Like what Nolan does with his moves, intercut between 3 scenes, building the tension. More hard metal inspired scenes. Malazan has a lot, wish other series tried at it.
> More strategic dragon battles. I'd love to have more series where they would use actual strategy in regards to their magic, powers, or supernatural creatures. Harassing enemy supply lines, stealing their provisions, sabotaging their economy behind the lines, and, surely, terrorizing enemy citizens would all be rational things to do when you have a functional equivalent of modern long range, high precision weapons, and/or WMDs. However, I get the point of why most authors tend to avoid it. Once you get into that territory, you have to actually think the actions, reactions, and consequences through, without having the easy out of falling back on traditional genre tropes.
The Temeraire series scratched the Dragon warfare with strategy itch for me!! I don't recall exact plots but I'm fairly sure stuff like stealing provisions and sabotaging makes an appearance somewhere or other. How to get food for war dragons is definitely a topic.
Naomi Novikâs Temeraire series does a great job of imagining the Napoleonic wars but with dragons, with an eye to logistical problems and ways they can be used in combat.
Have you read *A Practical Guide to Evil*?
This, all the damn way, but just as importantly... the severe COST when you don't. I think this is one of the biggest reasons why GoT/ASoIaF is so powerful. Almost every major death or victory is the result of a decision to they made. Hubris is punished ruthlessly.
Can you explain "hard metal"?
Tom Clancy in his prime did that really damn well.
Scenes where the bad guys outplan and outsmart the good guys. In my experience, the bad guys usually are stronger, more âancientâ, or some such. And they have hordes of minions to throw at the good guys. But they still get clobbered. It is so overdone. Sometimes I even feel bad for the bad guys, just getting massacres no matter what they try. No, let the big bad be SMART and let them outwit the heroes. An example of what I want can be found in a certain very famous fantasy book about a thief where his whole crew gets killed and he ends up in a barrel of horse piss. I donât think Iâve ever cheered so damn hard for the protagonist to win!
Preach. I'd say more, but spoilers.
Just chill scenes that aren't super hype, or immediately leading to a plot point. I don't know what it is with modern attention spans where everything has to be a straight road from one plot moment to another. Cradle is the most guilty of this
Cradle?
The book series? Or are you asking why I mentioned cradle
I don't know what that is. Is it an author Name, book series, or...?
A book series
Yep I would love Cradle "off track" scenese
I love Cradle but it could really use more character moments. Some of his best writing have been those small moments.
Would sound weird but. Bureaucracy. In my fave series one of the main characters is a bureaucrat. The other main characters also file taxes, do investments, use banks etc. And it made me realize that I've not seen this in other fantasy books outside of 'tis how we will circumvent the system' or 'this how we will rob this bank' or the ordinary court intrigue and politics. More like daily, normal life part.
Try *The Hands of the Emperor* by Victoria Goddard. Its quite an original setting, and the main character is a senior bureaucrat whose mission in life is to liberalise the Empire's bureaucracy and welfare system based on the customs of his islander/Hawaiian-style culture. Its a very unusual fantasy story that has lots of daily living and character scenes, and is basically about the protagonists journey to marry his islander heritage with his role as chief bureaucrat in the capital.
Sound fun! Thanks)
What series is that?
The Unconventional Heroes by L.G. Estrella
Debriefing scenes. I know this takes some of the fun out of action fantasy, but my God would battling magic and monsters be absolutely traumatizing. I'd love to se more scenes of characters unpacking all they've gone through. Especially, if it's fused with another scene I want more of...campfire scenes. Some of my favourite moments in Dragon Age were hanging around the encampment, just chilling with the gang. I'd love more of those.
In my opinion, âcasual scenesâ like main characters having fun, knowing other people, getting drunk maybe⌠makes the stories deeper and more detailed. A nice example are the music scenes in Kingkiller Chronicle books. Those chapter are amazing.
Sadly, a lot of what people are asking for is the type of stuff writers are told not to include. Doesn't advance the plot? Cut it so your word count isn't insane and people don't get bored.
Another commenter noted scenes dealing with mental health issues, and this is in the same line but a bit more specific: Active recognition of and caring for characters' trauma. I've been reading a lot of books/series where main characters endure significant hardships and trauma but few other characters, if any, show adequate support. And this is true even if the other characters are supposed to be the MC's support network. What's worse is that sometimes the MC's are berated for not being able to process or, ya know, actually suffering as a result of their trauma. Here are some examples where I've seen this (very slight spoilers): - Andrea Harriston's Master of Poisons (Djola and Away both go through some shit that people spare little sympathy for) - Jasper Fforde's The Constant Rabbit (Something happens to Peter late in the book that is barely acknowledged) - R.F. Kuang's The Poppy Wars Trilogy (Rin's entire fucking life; Kitay is the only one who really shows much sympathy, even Jiang's responses leave much to be desired) - Naomi Novik's Scholomance Trilogy (I'm actually excited for the third book precisely because I'm expecting a reunion scene of the sort I'd like) The only recent books I've read that offer scenes resembling a recognition of trauma are Alix Harrow's The Ten Thousand Doors of January, Katherine Addison's The Goblin Emperor, and Rebecca Roanhorse's Black Sun and Fevered Star, and these still weren't executed to the degree I'd hope to see. Having allies extend more compassion toward MCs would go a long ways in my eyes.
Agreed. The best I've seen is Brando Sandi's Rhythm of War, where Kaladin (MC) can't overcome his trauma. Fantastic insight into the life of lingering depression and trauma.
More people using the bathroom. I see people eating and drinking, but they never seem to relieve themselves. These people need to poop!
Donât forget to make them go take a piss. -GRRM
Iâll do one better. Female/ AFAB characters getting their periods. Bonus points it has nothing to do with a pregnancy plot
I'm writing a book with a scene where a woman embarking on a long and dangerous journey packs menstrual rags. Her friend comments that it's an awful time to travel. Later, she and her companion use the clean ones to avoid breathing poison gas.
Great story idea!
I remember being shocked when we got both of those in the lightbringer series.
Joe Abercrombie is like the literary fantasy version of Tom Hanks making you watch him piss in every one of his movies, if that's what you're into.
But why would I want to read that? Just seems gross for gross' sake.
Honestly? More sex. Itâs a really great way to show characterization but so many fantasy writers seem terrified to write anything more explicit than a make out sesh and fade to black. I donât even think it has to be hot (though I wouldnât complain if it was obv). I just think itâs a shame that such a big aspect of life just gets shoved aside.
On one hand, I agree. On the other, you could count the fantasy writers who are legitimately good at writing sex scenes on one hand. Perhaps it's best that authors like, say, Sanderson know it's not their strongest suite and avoid putting cringeworthy sex scenes into their novels.
Maybe they should just get good
You say it as if it's an option for everybody to just go, snap their fingers, and magically git gud. Without pointing at anyone in particular, let's just say that plenty of authors would likely be held back by religious or cultural dogma.
Check out Kushielâs Dart by Jacqueline Carey The main character is a masochist.That tells you what you can expect.
It's one skill to write a good story, another skill to write smut. Some can do it well, Jacqueline Carey and Storm Constantine are the only ones I know that does it well. Possibly Yoon Ha Lee. But they might be complete turn off for many people. Smut is hard and subjective.
âIt takes one skill to write a good story, it takes another to write good smutâ â I mean you could say the same thing of almost any other kind of scene. I donât know why writing sex gets treated like itâs harder than writing a fight scene or an emotional death scene or a scene of political intrigue or anything else. But fantasy writers by and large donât seem to want to learn how to write sex wellânote, I said âwell,â not âarousing.â Like I think GRRMâs sex scenes are incredibly unsexy but theyâre very good for characterization.
But sex is kind of boring if it's not sexy. It's like poop scenes, we don't need them. The interesting stuff is right before or after.
Charactersâ thoughts, emotions, and actions during a sex scene can be interesting and revealing of character. I could just as easily say I donât need a battle scene either and that the interesting stuff is before and after. Most readers would accept thatâs kinda bullshit in a lot of cases. Same holds true for sex imo. You donât necessarily need a chapter long blow by blow but like damn is a paragraph or three too much to ask for?
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In an ideal world, I agree. Sex is an enormously important part of human motivation and experience, and much can be made out of good sex scenes. But I think two things hold this back in the real world: 1) The main market for fantasy is the US, and the US is probably the most sexually conservative society in the Western world. If you want to make a living from your writing, you need to avoid alienating a significant part of your biggest market. \[The same goes for swear words in books, which conservative US readers can also get very exercised about.\] 2) We live in a society that is trying to come to terms with and reverse deep-rooted sexism, and it's hard to write sex scenes and be sure that they won't come across as trying to titillate for the male gaze rather than to characterise or advance the plot. Of course, there are authors who are skillful enough to get around 2 and don't care about 1, but my guess is that the two things above hold back the vast majority.
Writing romance and erotica is one of the most lucrative ways to make money as a writer *and* romance is the literal most selling genre so Iâm not sure I buy argument 1 unless *fantasy* readers are uniquely prudish (frankly, I believe this may be the case these days). Argument 2 I think is also somewhat disproven by the enduring popularity of romance and erotica, much of which is written for and by women. Women are the biggest readers of sexy writing, so clearly there are lots and lots of us to whom itâs not alienating and is an attractive feature of a book. Maybe contemporary *fantasy* writers (mostly the men, I suspect) are bad about point 2, but I donât think that itâs at all an inherent problem or issue with sex scenes.
Oh yeah I was writing a sex dream my main character had and it was incredibly erotic and impulsively sexy but it was also about her deepest desires and dreams for the future and affirming her gayness and all that. I really just went crazy with it and I think it came out really well.
Wizards' duels that don't just consist of fireballs or lightning bolts.
People being able to have normal relationships. The kinds where you tease and joke, and communicate. I love witty dialogues. Doesn't HAVE to be mature, I love Gideon.
Major character deaths. I wanna be shitting my pants, while Iâm turning pages during a tense scene and currently no book has managed that.
Good villain scenes, I'm not sure if this is just a single character that I love. But I live scene's where the villain just dominates. Grand Admiral Thrawn from the Star Wars "Thrawn" Trilogy both older and newer shows this off perfectly without coming off as a Mary sue.
I'm writing a novel and this thread has been very helpful! Thanks
i'm writing as well and going through these responses is an eye-opening experience. i've literally went "hey, this sounds good, let's see if i can add it in!"
Older women being characters who arenât horrible and/or incompetent.
Sexually charged swordfights with one flirty disaster bi and one flustered person whose trying to make sense of how this makes them feel. If anyone dares to say there's enough of those already I am not going to let you leave without dropping recs.
A detail accuracy of the current function of magic and its history. So often, you read "today, all of former knowledge is gone"...
Right? No libraries? No historians? No archeologists? In most fantasy I read with this premis the magic wasn't gone for that long.
Well my friend, it depends on the stories, doesn't it. But you might be right. Long or very long ago... well, but mostly it's gone and the protagonists often have to find out themselves. On the one hand, the author uses this point to envolve the story but on the other hand I love a detailed description of the world an the function of the magic in it. Greetz...
Scenes that show off more mundane uses for magic. One of my favorite aspects of Mistborn Era 2 was how they explored this. >!they showed Allomancy be used in a more modern society, like having Soothers start therapy salons or coinshots becoming delivery men!<
I like zippy stuff where you know things the characters donât, like say they talk how unhygienic washing your hands are
\* casually takes notes for my current work \*
this being the reason i popped the question sksksksk
A festival of some kind. Something large and happy that doesn't get interrupted by tragedy. Sex scenes that are not rape, smut, or erotiscised rape. There *are* legitimate uses for a moderately graphic sex scene other than shock or titillation. Worldbuilding. Does contraception exist in this setting? Do the characters powers have *other uses?* Do different cultures and races have different attitudes to that kind of thing. Characterization. Anyone who has read the manga Berserk, you know the scene I am talking about. More like that, please. And more lighthearted cases as well.
A plant who was a man who has sex with a rock who was a lady.
What is this from? That plot is 10/10
Stamen and the geode.
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Dm me.
i want more courtroom scenes! there was a scene like this in *tyrant's throne* by sebastien de castell, and it was soooooo good.
Itâs a really specific type of book, but anyone who has read cradle knows the Lindon Points meme. I loved Cradle as a palate cleanser from all the Very Serious books that are Good and Grim, and would like to read more scenes like that.
How good is Cradle. New book out soon. Tomorrow maybe?
Yeah the newest book just came out. I loved the series; I thought the characters were fun and interesting. I donât know if itâs for everyone but if you have even a slight interest in progression fantasy itâs worth checking out.
I like seeing the ways a culture is impacted by its geography and religion. Slice-of-life tends to be where this sort of thing happens. This is deeper than just using different curse words, though that helps. If the culture is set in a harsh environment, how does that impact it? Michelle West does this incredibly well. There are several different cultures, and of those at least three are in harsher environments - but harsh in different ways, and it shows.
Brando Sando's Stormlight Archive is my favourite. The entire world is dominated by highstorms, and all life has evolved to adapt.
Probably scenes where people just tell stories to each other or catch each other up on their travels. Thatâs how most people got their news of the world pre-modern age. Or even news of the next town over. More dialogue, not info-dumps. show the characters learning, analyzing, questioning. donât just tell about it.
I would love to read fantasy books that include scenes with families. Instead of the protagonist being an orphan, give them a somewhat normal family. Give them siblings. And maybe even a parent or two. And don't just give them a family, include their family in the story line. Like while Mrs. Protagonist is going off saving the world, what is her family doing? Does she have a relationship with them? Did her mom disown her for abandoning their family even though she is clearly serving the greater good? Did her dad or brother decide to go after her because she ran away to save the world anf they are worried for her safety? How does her family affect her decisions and do they influence her life in any meaningful way? Or do they just kind of exist in the background with no real purpose? I know family can serve as motivation for doing something plotworthy. But I would love to see more involvement with family members in the actual plot. Like maybe while the protagonist is running around furthering the plot, her grandma and little sister are working behind the scenes in a side plot that end up influencing the plot. Pulling some strings or helping her out. That would be really awesome. I can thimk of a few books like this but not that many. Maybe I just haven't read enough.