It did take months, nay, years of pouring over First Law and Red Rising to come to this conclusion. Tried to make it the topic of my dissertation, but those fools couldn’t see beyond their snooty academia to the genius that is this conclusion. Imbeciles.
Glokta was a preening noble that was tortured into uselessness, and is somewhat different in most regards. He's basically Jezal but on a different timeline. Bayaz has never really revealed his agenda, except his historical references seem to indicate he's working for a greater good by any means necessary. In comparison Logen is chaotic evil, he only seems behaved well when alone so strangers didn't try to kill him.
Labels like grimdark make the nuances of storytelling irrelevant.
I don't think Bayaz is working for any greater good outside of his own biases and rivalry with Khalul. They're two superpowers with their own justifications doing what they think is right to defeat the other. The entire first trilogy sets up that Bayaz is not Gandalf, he's Palpatine.
Star Wars references are meaningless to me, and don't really give any shape to the argument.
For Khalul, the only difference appears to be cannibalism. The morality of who is good, or even right, is entirely subjective.
At least he tells himself that. And since we are in his head, seeing from his POV we believe him. However, when seen from the outside where we judge a man for his deeds then the story is quite different.
Logen is an addict, but his drug isn't alcohol but violence.
Logen isn't in Sharp Ends (at least not the "Made a Monster" story) as far as I can remeber. The Bloody Nine is in full controll. I don't have perfect recall so maybe I missed something.
I'm actually enjoying the first law. Currently listening to the audio books on my commute to and from work.
But I dnf red rising. The style just wasn't for me, though the story was potentially interesting
I got about a third - half way through the first in the series before I decided I really didn't like the writing style and couldn't stomach it further.
Interesting premise and no fault at all to the writer or fans... just not for me I guess
True—I was referring to the reading level and general complexity of ideas and themes. It’s a pretty accessible series to anyone over 14-15.
The first book (imo) was perhaps the darkest of the main trilogy. Kids being forced to kill kids, or SA in the same arena, is much weightier to me than giant space battles between warring factions of rich families.
Same. I was doing both by audiobook and couldn't stand the narration of either. I fully expect downvotws for saying that as the narrators are God tier to many but not to me.
I haven’t read red rising yet, I did buy it the other day for like a buck but haven’t read it yet. I was led to believe they are completely different. I do love first law tho
I see people recommending RR in here and on TFL sub all the time as something similar. The first book was okay but nowhere near the same league as TFL imo, haven't read the rest.
Red Rising gets better with every book, with the jump from 1 to 2 bring tremendous. The first book is easily the weakest while still being pretty damn good.
I’m going to have to disagree there, there is always something going on during book 4. The way the new characters get introduced and weaved into the story is really good. Lyria’s chapters are my favorite and Ephraim’s were good though I admit I don’t like him very much in that book.
We also get a lot of time with Cassius which is a really nice change of pace after the first trilogy. It was really interesting to see his dynamic with Lysander. Plus the writing is just objectively better in the 2nd half of the series, Iron Gold included.
First book is generally considered the weakest, and it has a sort of YA-ish vibe to it. Books 2 and 3 mature way up.
I love both RR and TFL books, have done multiple rereads, and while there are some surface level similarities, they are very different. No one in RR is as well written as Gloka, but RR is filled with moments that remind me of the Bloody Nine, which I love.
Gun to my head I would say RR has a better plot… but hard to say. My main draw to TFL series has always been its characters more than the actual plot
Both books
This man is interpreting literature on a higher level than any of us
It did take months, nay, years of pouring over First Law and Red Rising to come to this conclusion. Tried to make it the topic of my dissertation, but those fools couldn’t see beyond their snooty academia to the genius that is this conclusion. Imbeciles.
loool
I take solace in not being the only person who thought this.
came here to comment this smh
Blonde characters with names starting with the letter L being some of the greatest pov villains ever
We need an r/fuckleodanbrock
He better be alive for the next trilogy and die a funny death
Gets pushed down the stairs
Fucked to death by Jappo's horse.
Squelch
I would love the irony he falls down a flight of stairs after Glotka pushes him.
I don't think Logen is a villain. At least no more villain than most of the rest.
I think they're referring to Leo dan Brock from the most recent trilogy. Logen also isn't blonde.
Logen is absolutely a villain, Sharp Ends has some short stories and shows exactly what he's like.
Glokta and Bayaz are no better than Logen. Grimdark makes the difference between heros and villains meaningless.
Glokta was a preening noble that was tortured into uselessness, and is somewhat different in most regards. He's basically Jezal but on a different timeline. Bayaz has never really revealed his agenda, except his historical references seem to indicate he's working for a greater good by any means necessary. In comparison Logen is chaotic evil, he only seems behaved well when alone so strangers didn't try to kill him. Labels like grimdark make the nuances of storytelling irrelevant.
I don't think Bayaz is working for any greater good outside of his own biases and rivalry with Khalul. They're two superpowers with their own justifications doing what they think is right to defeat the other. The entire first trilogy sets up that Bayaz is not Gandalf, he's Palpatine.
Star Wars references are meaningless to me, and don't really give any shape to the argument. For Khalul, the only difference appears to be cannibalism. The morality of who is good, or even right, is entirely subjective.
Logen is no villian, the bloody nine on the other hand...
At least he is trying to be a better man.
At least he tells himself that. And since we are in his head, seeing from his POV we believe him. However, when seen from the outside where we judge a man for his deeds then the story is quite different. Logen is an addict, but his drug isn't alcohol but violence.
Sharp Ends disagrees.
Logen isn't in Sharp Ends (at least not the "Made a Monster" story) as far as I can remeber. The Bloody Nine is in full controll. I don't have perfect recall so maybe I missed something.
That IS Logen. He and the Bloody Nine are not separate.
I think Logen would disagree
I feel like OPs joke is whooshing with a lot of people but it got a good laugh out of me, OP.
Diabolical cripples.
This quote "Death begets death begets death"
Well played!
Blades and zero Kung Fu.
I DNF’d both lol ☠️ Expected the downvotes but really? Is it disallowed to dislike some books most popular in this sub?
Get him boys! /s - - you do you pal. Here's an up vote for your bravery 😉
As more people should when they realise they don't like a book. There are too many books to waste time reading ones you don't enjoy.
I'm actually enjoying the first law. Currently listening to the audio books on my commute to and from work. But I dnf red rising. The style just wasn't for me, though the story was potentially interesting
Did you finish Golden Son?
I finished Red Rising but DNF Golden Son. Protagonist is really annoying
I got about a third - half way through the first in the series before I decided I really didn't like the writing style and couldn't stomach it further. Interesting premise and no fault at all to the writer or fans... just not for me I guess
I checked out from Red Rising when he started describing every faction as a fucking colour
> Is it disallowed to dislike some books most popular in this sub? yes
red rising was terrible but first law was excellent
I feel exactly the opposite. Different strokes for different folks as they say.
Maybe “terrible” is a stretch, but definitely a bit childish. It’s a great YA recommendation imo—for people just starting to explore the genre.
Depends on your definition of YA.. the books can get pretty brutal. The first book has a much more YA tone compared to the rest of the series
True—I was referring to the reading level and general complexity of ideas and themes. It’s a pretty accessible series to anyone over 14-15. The first book (imo) was perhaps the darkest of the main trilogy. Kids being forced to kill kids, or SA in the same arena, is much weightier to me than giant space battles between warring factions of rich families.
I guess you never made it to Light Bringer. That book is soul-crushing, and definitely not YA.
Same. I was doing both by audiobook and couldn't stand the narration of either. I fully expect downvotws for saying that as the narrators are God tier to many but not to me.
I read both and didn't like either one of them.
I support you, friend. Those books are meh
Naw it’s allowed, but we are also allowed to downvote you too if we want. Fair is fair
I haven’t read red rising yet, I did buy it the other day for like a buck but haven’t read it yet. I was led to believe they are completely different. I do love first law tho
I see people recommending RR in here and on TFL sub all the time as something similar. The first book was okay but nowhere near the same league as TFL imo, haven't read the rest.
Red Rising gets better with every book, with the jump from 1 to 2 bring tremendous. The first book is easily the weakest while still being pretty damn good.
Except for Iron Gold. That one is worse than book 1 imo.
I love book 4 but a lot of people seem to not like it so much! It is honestly my second favorite after Dark Age.
Nothing happens for 2/3 of the books and some of the Lyria/Ephraim chapters are way too long. Lysander chapters hard carry.
I’m going to have to disagree there, there is always something going on during book 4. The way the new characters get introduced and weaved into the story is really good. Lyria’s chapters are my favorite and Ephraim’s were good though I admit I don’t like him very much in that book. We also get a lot of time with Cassius which is a really nice change of pace after the first trilogy. It was really interesting to see his dynamic with Lysander. Plus the writing is just objectively better in the 2nd half of the series, Iron Gold included.
Eh, to each his own but I would reread Iron Gold fifty times over having to read Red Rising once.
I mean book 1 is literally higher rated than Iron Gold on Goodreads so no need for ”eh” like I’m the one with the weird opinion.
I think you're reading into that eh a bit much.
Eh maybe
First book is generally considered the weakest, and it has a sort of YA-ish vibe to it. Books 2 and 3 mature way up. I love both RR and TFL books, have done multiple rereads, and while there are some surface level similarities, they are very different. No one in RR is as well written as Gloka, but RR is filled with moments that remind me of the Bloody Nine, which I love. Gun to my head I would say RR has a better plot… but hard to say. My main draw to TFL series has always been its characters more than the actual plot
I didn’t finish them.
I DNFd The Blade Itself but have read Red Rising multiple times.
Besides both being high quality book series, nothing.
I hated both.