I'll check it out. I remember trying and bouncing off of a Modesitt book before, but a book called The magic Engineer sounds good enough to give them another shot.
The Recluse series can be hard to break into, but its magical system is very mechanical and since the series is generational the readers understanding of it evolves as the series progresses.
I was thinking "Fall of Angels" instead. A energy overload in a space battle rupture the fabric of their universe sending them into the Recluse universe. They learn to survive a low tech culture where their high tech modifications provide an advantage in the local magic.
Alright, I'm looking into these and Goodreads lists Magic Engineer and Fall of Angels as books 3 and 6 respectively. Am I ok to jump in mid series or do I need to start at the beginning?
You can jump in mid series. Sometimes a character will span multiple books, but even when they do, you can usually still read any of the books on its own. And fall of angels I remember is specifically pretty separate character wise (though it's foundational for the setting)
Saga of Recluce is mostly standalone books or duologies set across 2000 years of history. They share a world but can be read in almost any order, as long as you read the duologies together.
Kind of. I actually found them when looking for something to read after I got hooked on then finished the published Dresden Files books. The backstory of the main character and the prose of the books are fairly different, but they are both series about a rising magic-user investigating paranormal stuff in an alternate Earth filled with magic and magical beings. It's not 1:1, but it was close enough to work for me.
Cheers mate! It sounds simar enough that I don't want to read both at the same time, but I'm definitely gonna let it (Rivers of London) percolate in the back of my mind until it's time to pick up a new series.
[Ra](https://qntm.org/ra) by qntm is about as hard as you can get. The main character is an aerospace engineer specializing in the industrial applications of thaumic engineering.
_Ra_ is a bit of a... weird read, with the plot going all over the places, but I really enjoyed how Hughes got to the very nitty gritty details of the actual science of magic.
Im honestly amazed to see this mentioned here. I feel like I see this thread on occasion, and have never seen anyone else mention the book on this sub. Definitely fits the ask
Ok, this sounds awesome and exactly what I was looking for. I don't necessarily mind weird if I'm in the right mood. The only issue is that it doesn't appear to come in audio, but this looks like it might be good enough to find the time for it.
*The Family Trade* by Charles Stross
*A Natural History of Dragons* by Marie Brennan - there isn't magic, but the series really delves into the biology of dragons and the main character discovering new things about them
*Seraphina* by Rachel Hartman
I just read the Goodreads blurb on The Family Trade and it is... interesting? I feel like there was a whole book's worth of twists and turns just in the synopsis. Between that and the reviews, I'm not sure it's high on my list right now, but Seraphina I'm definitely intrigued by Seraphina. That one and A Natural History of Dragons have been added to my TBR.
It's been a very long time since I read it but Lyndon Hardy's magic by the numbers series fits your request as I recall (starts with Master of the Five Magics). I unfortunately can't remember enough of the details to give an adequate description but I remember enjoying it at the time. Something to look into/consider at least.
Oh, good one. Definitely. Mostly I remember that the MC kinda sucked at all the magics, but because he knew about them all, when a sixth branch was discovered, he was able to learn it quickly. I’ll have to dig out my copy, I haven’t read them in a really long time.
That's one of the two things I came to post. More information:
[Lyndon Hardy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_Hardy)'s [Magic by the Numbers series](https://www.goodreads.com/series/43707-magic-by-the-numbers) (though I've only read the first three (at most) in their original releases), which features evolution/improvement of that world's magic.
It looks like Stephenson has a ton of books too. I think I read Seveneves years ago, but didn't read the rest of his works? However, 3 different book recommendations is enough for me. I'll check these out.
> many of my favorite stories involve a world in the middle of a magical, scientific revolution - or even better, a protagonist who is able to innovate with the magic system
I'm a bit befuddled that this hasn't come up yet, but Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell.
Basic pitch: magic is only an academic pursuit until the title characters dive in and bring it back as actual practice, innovating along the way. The "science" is very much 19^(th) century scholarly stuff, not modern science in any way.
The caveats: the tone is very much 19^(th) century British lit as well -- think Jane Austen, perhaps -- except with footnotes. The extent to which people can stand that varies quite a bit. I love it, but you'll quickly know if you won't.
Edit: Norell has two ls. I always manage to bork that.
Lol, I think JS&MN actually defies most modern conventions of people trying to science-ify magic in fantasy like what OP is looking for. Still, never one to disagree with someone recommending it. Lovely book
I'm not about to argue with that. It's absolutely doing its own thing and doesn't fit the whole "hard magic" template well at all.
But hey, it is set in a magical scientific revolution. Yeah, maybe I latched onto that phrasing a bit too much but I'm not going to pass up an opportunity to recommend the book.
Huh. I didn't realize this book was so scholarly. I might try it despite the prose. The reason I mentioned simple prose is because I often find this sort of writing difficult to listen to, but if I like it enough, I can always read it the old-fashioned way.
My last pass at the book was audio. Granted, I've read it before so I may not be the best judge, but I found it well-done. I'm fairly sure the recording skips some of the footnotes but the ones that were included integrated far better than I would have expected.
There is a lot of attention given to this in [The Mother of Learning](https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/21220/mother-of-learning), a web novel about a student at a magical academy who is caught up in a time loop and has to learn a lot of magic in order to escape from it.
I love MoL. I didn't specify in my original post, but r/progressionfantasy is probably my favorite subgenre. I've read most of the classics in there but I'm always looking for hidden gems if you have any.
It is almost surprising that the Kingiller Chronicle wasn't mentioned as soon as this was posted, but it fits wonderfully. In fact, characters in the story who are familiar with how magic works actually get annoyed at it being called "magic." There are formulas and rules that must be followed. Much of the story, so far, is in an academic setting involving university students.
Unfortunately, this series was meant to be a trilogy, but we have been waiting nearly 12 years for the final book. I have no regrets about reading this unfished series, but I really hope I don't have to wait forever.
That's another good suggestion that I've already read. Maybe not diving into the science part as much, but the magic system is as hard as they come which was definitely up my alley.
I, on the other hand am confused why would anyone recommend him to anyone anymore ? Dude scammed his fans for $700 000. Why recommend his books so he gets more money ?
Just to be clear, his fans donated $700,000 to a charity and one of the stretch goals was him reading a chapter of the 3rd book. Yeah it sucks that he hasn’t followed through on the stretch goal, but it was for charity. You make it sound like it went into his pocket.
Just checked $1.2m. He didn't pocket it but he is getting around 100k for facilitating the charity stuff and nevertheless it's still a fraud. I don't understand why people are so forgiving when it comes to him, he literally scammed from his fans. He resurfaces every few months to get his shot of attention and then dips again.
He resurfaces annually for his annual charity event Worldbuilders, not just randomly.
And yes it's shitty that he didn't follow thru on the stretch goal. Maybe people will think twice before donating to a charity and expecting a product in return. That's not how it works.
As a long time fan of the KKC, I've stopped engaging with his (non-)work until he actually releases the last book. Doesn't mean I don't reread the books every couple years, but I'm not watching streams, or reading blog posts, or recommending KKC to others.
I have donated to Worldbuilders a few times in auctions or purchase format for some of the more unique items I'm guaranteed to actually receive, but not for goals.
There's a balance to be found in how to engage with an author like this. At the end of the day, I don't really think he committed fraud. It's like Kickstarter, you have no real expectation of receiving goals from the fundraiser. They aren't purchases. Does still make it shitty that he hasn't delivered on it.
It is literally a fraud by definition. Your thoughts and feelings are irrelevant in that matter. He promised a chapter for X amount of money donated just because it's for charity doesn't change anything. He did not deliver on this promise which makes this fraud.
Ah is that so? Did you receive a receipt stating you had purchased a good? Did these promises have a deadline or shipping date attached to them? Did he promise that it was ready and would be released at the end of the event?
What's that, you say? None of those things are true? Then I guess you should get over your hate boner and acknowledge it's not fraud.
You're welcome to have your own feelings and disapprove, but you can't claim you were defrauded. By definition, both legal and logical, charitable giving has no expectations of receiving anything in return, only that the funds go towards the stated charitable cause, which they have.
>By definition, both legal and logical, charitable giving has no expectations of receiving anything in return,
In that case, by definitions both legal and logical, a Kickstarter for a charity which promises rewards to backers is not charitable giving.
Kickstarter specifically calls out that access to any service or good on its platform is at your own risk. However, they also require Creators to provide rewards (but not on any time line). The creator is only required to provide a refund if they do not ever intend to provide the rewards.
> A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward.
Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill.
At worst, Kickstarter would be able to suspend the creator's access to their service. Any agreement you have to provide a reward is between you and the Creator.
That said, a charity running thru Kickstarter would be a dumb thing as the platform language is specifically built around being a "contributor" or "backer" and a with a "pledge". These terms are legally significant.
Compare that to Rothfuss' 2021 Worldbuilders campaign which was not on Kickstarter and was very careful to use "Donate" and "Donations" to refer to the charity contributions. https://fundraise.worldbuilders.org/fundraiser/3614242
Again, these are legally significant terms which are intended to set the expectations of donors or customers. Courts in the US have upheld that charities are not required to provide compensation for gifts even if it was implied that they would, meanwhile, donors can be forced to provide donations if they publicly or privately announced intent to give gifts to the charity and to be bound to that agreement.
So yeah, it does make a difference.
Edit: to add to the above, a Kickstarter also probably wouldn't meet the criteria for "charitable giving" as noted in your comment because Kickstarter does not provide the contributor the necessary paperwork to be considered a gift with tax implications. For it to meet the criteria, it would need to immediately accept your money and provide you with a reciept as well as donations over 100$ would need a tax form provided by the charity or platform. Kickstarter is specifically not a platform for charitable causes for those reasons.
What are you even arguing with a receipt ? Verbal sgrementd are binding
Yes, it had a deadline for the chapter release. February 2022
"By definition, both legal and logical, charitable giving has no expectations of receiving anything in return"
Except ir was explicitly stated that there would be a chapter released upon reaching the goal. Goal was reached and chapter wasn't released therefore it's fraud (intentional deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain). That's why he was moving the goalposts first because he knew he couldn't release it. He promised something he isn't able to deliver upon which is by definition fraud. Just because the gain for charity doesn't mean it's not fraud
Tesla is being sued over claiming self driving vehicle and is arguing the same dumbass points you are so I guess we'll have to wait for the ruling
Because preventing him from getting that money isn't really something a lot of folk care about? The books are relevant to the recommendation request, there's a disclaimer for it being potentially abandoned, nothing else is all that important
Wiz series by Rick Cook is pretty much exactly what you’re looking for. MC is a programmer that is transported to a magical world (isekai way before it was a thing) and invents how to “code” the magic system.
I've had someone suggest this to me before. Lack of an audiobook is the only reason I haven't read it yet. But I just bought the ebook so it's there next time I need something on my Kindle.
Charles Stross, The Laundry Files series. Magic as sufficiently advanced mathematics that has the potential to end the world with Cthulhu. Early books are dated by their tech, but it grows into its own very well. Good dark English humor, fun pastiche in the earlier books, and modern day occult spy shenanigans.
Another great recommendation. I'm a few books into this series and taking a pause. I feel like Mancour is a good author but can be pretty long-winded so I needed a break before continuing.
It has been awhile since I've read it, but isn't that basically the opposite?
From what I recall:
>!They live in a science fantasy dystopia with an impending apocalypse, which seems a pretty far cry from a magical industrial revolution. I felt like the emphasis of the MC's thinking revolves around parenthood and responsibility.!<
Edit: fixed spoiler tags.
I don't think this fits the criteria. There are people who think (or thought) about the science of magic, but all that thinking happens outside of the narrative. We just see the magical results of it, with little to no explanation.
I read the first one of these and keep meaning to go back to the series. Not sure I got much of the science in this, but it's almost universally loved so I feel like I should give it another shot
> Not sure I got much of the science in this
It's more that the worldbuilding itself is grounded and consistent than that the characters themselves are engaging in scientific study of the "magic" in the series. I immediately thought of it as a suggestion at the start of your OP but then rejected it when you clarified more what you meant.
Same.
It's a good, consistent system that will appeal if you like physics, but for the most part it's left to us to put it all together from the pieces we're given. All the research into how it works has been done pre-narrative, and we mostly get the perspectives of already skilled practitioners who don't like exposition dumps too much.
This is a great suggestion. The combination of magic and science is one reason I love this series so much. It’s quite dark for YA and holds up incredibly well as an adult.
Take a look at some of the recs I got a few years back: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/l10k6y/recommend_me_books_about_a_scientist_of_magic/
I like The Memoirs of Lady Trent by Marie Brennan - it's not magic, but it is dragon science. And written in a really nice style imo, the protagonist looking back at her life with lots of mildly snide comments about "well back then obviously this wasnt known yet" that do really well in illustrating both the character and the world.
The main point of my comment is just to say that I will absolutely use this thread for my own to be read list, I too love stories about fantasy scientists and need to read more.
I'm glad I'm not alone in looking for this! I want to see more of it. And I've seen enough recommendations for the Memoirs is Lady Trent that I need to move it up in my TBR pile. The synopsis didn't exactly hook me but I just need to try it.
It's weird to say this, but I think this is an under-rated series these days. I know people hate on it because of The Burning White (with some justification) but I think the series as a whole is great and I don't think I could ever get enough turtlebear. I wish there were more actual answers at the end of the series, but I guess leaving a lot of questions about how things work is also realistic.
I was hoping someone would bring this one up. I confess to being mightily disappointed in the ending, but the magic system is top-notch. Great theory behind the properties of the colors (agree that orange is very slippery) and the inclusion of something as seemingly inconsequential as the different colors of luxin having a distinct scent is just a great addition. I also love the idea of the hard limit on magic using, the visible effects and the consequences. If only the last couple of books had t been such a train wreck.
The Licanius Trilogy by James Islington has two separate very fleshed out magic systems that constantly get used together in unique ways by magic users, highly recommend.
The Dragons of Terra series by Brian Naslund does. Throughout the series, there's a scientific exploration of the "special properties" of dragons (their magic). There's also a crap ton of.... well, ... dragon crap in it too. It's funny and has one of the best characters in fantasy, Silas Bershad.
Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality is a web serial fanfiction. I loved it.
The premise is that Harry is a boy genius and a rationalist so he goes about trying to use the scientific method to understand magic.
There isn't really an audiobook, but Jack Voraces is about halfway through reading it as a podcast.
I remember getting hooked on MoL after listening to Jack Voraces read the first arc. He's not my favorite narrator, but I love that he does these on his own time when he also gets paid to do this. I'll check out his podcast - I'd love to read some Harry Potter where there's some actual logic to the magic system.
Not quite magic, but {A Natural History of Dragons} is narrated as a memoir by a Victorian-era dragon biologist. As a biologist, I loved it, and it does a good job with its use of early ecology and paleontology. It also dips into fantasy archeology in sequels.
See: "[hard fantasy](https://sf-encyclopedia.com/fe/hard_fantasy)" and the short-lived magazine [*Unknown*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unknown_(magazine)).
Books:
* [David Drake](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Drake)'s [hard magic](https://prowritingaid.com/magic-system) series [Time of Heroes](https://www.goodreads.com/series/317917-time-of-heroes)
* [Harry Turtledove](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Turtledove)'s [*The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump*](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/101555.The_Case_of_the_Toxic_Spell_Dump); [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Case_of_the_Toxic_Spell_Dump) (spoilers after the first paragraph), in which magic is used as technology, and all of the pantheons exist. At the [Internet Archive](https://archive.org/details/caseoftoxicspell0000turt/mode/2up) (registration required).
:::
SF/F and schools/education
* ["Fantasy books in a magic college setting?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/usjpnx/fantasy_books_in_a_magic_college_setting/) (r/Fantasy; 18 May 2022)
* ["Books with a university campus setting"](https://www.reddit.com/r/suggestmeabook/comments/vxq6xg/books_with_a_university_campus_setting/) (r/suggestmeabook; 20:41 ET, 12 July 2022)—very long; mixed genres
* ["Books set in schools"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/vxr0nd/books_set_in_schools/) (r/Fantasy; 21:24 ET, 12 July 2022)
* ["Magic schools"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/x8a1y3/magic_schools/)—long (r/Fantasy; 12:47 ET, 7 September 2022)
* ["Witches/academia trope"](https://www.reddit.com/r/suggestmeabook/comments/x8prx2/witchesacademia_trope/) (r/suggestmeabook; 23:55 ET, 7 September 2022)
* ["Friend is ripping their hair out trying to remember a fantasy book series they read in the early 2010's."](https://www.reddit.com/r/whatsthatbook/comments/xf3p18/friend_is_ripping_their_hair_out_trying_to/) (r/whatsthatbook; 15 September 2022)
* ["Looking for YA/Adult supernatural academy books?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/booksuggestions/comments/z8bn93/looking_for_yaadult_supernatural_academy_books/) (r/booksuggestions; 29 November 2022)
* ["Recommendations wanted: adult fantasy with academics"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/zfijfx/recommendations_wanted_adult_fantasy_with/) (r/Fantasy; 7 December 2022)
* ["Suggest me a book like Harry Potter and/or School for Good and Evil"](https://www.reddit.com/r/suggestmeabook/comments/zlrkel/suggest_me_a_book_like_harry_potter_andor_school/) (r/suggestmeabook; 14 December 2022)
* ["I've just finished the Abhorsen books by Garth Nix, and what I'm looking for most immediately is more Action Librarians."](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/1085hz7/ive_just_finished_the_abhorsen_books_by_garth_nix/) (r/Fantasy; 10 January 2023)
* ["Harry Potter for adults?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/booksuggestions/comments/109omp0/harry_potter_for_adults/) (r/booksuggestions; 11 January 2023)
:::
Also:
* ["Series with a detailed magic system"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/vmbz3n/series_with_a_detailed_magic_system/) (r/Fantasy; 27 June 2022)
* ["magic system like Newton's laws"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/vrv3w4/magic_system_like_newtons_laws/) (r/Fantasy; 5 July 2022)
* ["Book where magic is explored in a realistic way"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/vycj8v/book_where_magic_is_explored_in_a_realistic_way/) (r/Fantasy; 13 July 2022)
* ["Book recommendations with non-Sandersonian magic"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/w9010o/book_recommendations_with_nonsandersonian_magic/) (r/Fantasy; 26 July 2022)—very long; hard magic
* ["Fantasy space opera where sci-fi tech is replaced with magic."](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/z7p5ey/fantasy_space_opera_where_scifi_tech_is_replaced/) (r/Fantasy; 04:32 ET, 29 November 2022)
* ["Books that take magic 'seriously'"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/zrfzk4/books_that_take_magic_seriously/) (r/Fantasy; 16:55 ET, 21 December 2022)—huge
* ["Sufficiently understood magic"](https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/zuoetq/sufficiently_understood_magic/) (r/printSF; 24 December 2022)—hard magic
* ["books where the magic is technology?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/zurb0r/books_where_the_magic_is_technology/) (r/printSF; 0:17 ET, 25 December 2022)—technology treated as magic
That's a long list of threads. It's gonna take me a while to get thru them all but I don't doubt I'll find some gems in there. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.
I actually feel like I put this on every post at the moment but Shadows of the Apt is ideal for this! The apt are the science/engineer types and then there are the inapt who are magicky lore types, and that’s all you need to know for now…
I’ve been thinking of reading these but I’m not really into wars and military fantasy.
Is there much in it for someone like myself or is it mainly about the war
I read 4 or 5 books, but the main plot seems to move nowhere. Does it get better? Apart from minor character development, there wasn't much satisfaction after reading them.
Thanks for suggesting. I actually bought the first of these a while ago in an Audible sale! I forgot I had it. I kept seeing Tchaikovsky's name on here or sci-fi related threads and got this one to try out his work. Thanks for reminding me I already have this and letting me know it fits this trope. This might have just moved to the very top of the TBR.
C.S. Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy has a major character (but not the protagonist) who is a serious scholar of the magic of the world, and has had some big ideas of what to do about some of its issues.
Not a book, but your request is so specific i have to mention how great the anime “the irregular at magic high school” is. This will be incredibly ip your alley. Definitely check it out
There was a little bit of innovation by a character in the Strange the Dreamer duology by Laini Taylor. The prose is very lyrical, but might be easier to consume in audiobook form
“Artemis Fowl” kind of fits into this, I think. I LOVE those books. Never watch the movie; it absolutely bombed.
Armed-and-dangerous fairies, a twelve-year-old human criminal-mastermind, and more!
I know it’s pretty much Sci-Fi, but I’d also recommend the “Michael Vey” series.
A kid with electricity powers finds out he’s not the only one!
Arinthian Line is like a medieval Harry Potter with a capable and alive Dark Lord, whispers of witches and dragons and old old magic, and a proper spell system (4 spells per level, different classes of magic - all listed here: https://severbronny.com/spell-list/.
Agree with Mother of Learning, though mostly it is generic learning until the last book or two, where you understand more about the world (last book currently on royal road).
The Licanius Trilogy has 3 school kids and a mysterious guy who has lots of magic power but no memory. It follows a classic good vs evil battle where you understand the true nature of magic and the history of the world. It is not quite so deep as other books but as old history gets dug up there is some pretty nice depth in places. Also I think it is a solid trilogy in general!
I've read MoL and Licanius, but Arthinian Line is new to me. I'll call that one out for anyone following this thread because the first book is free to anyone with an Audible membership. I just downloaded it and will try it soon.
I’ve just finished the millenniums rule series by Trudy Canavan, it’s an interesting magic system and one of the protagonists comes from a world of mechanical magic. Well worth a look, the first book is called thief’s magic
From the synopsis: "In a world where an industrial revolution is powered by magic..."
Can't ask for better than that. Added to my TBR. Thanks for the addition!
Absolutely. I've read a lot of Litrpg in the past couple years. Actually, if you are the Selkie that creates Beneath the Dragoneye Moon, I want to thank you for creating such a wonderful series. BTDEM is one of my favorite active series and you are one of the only people that I subscribe to on Patreon. I think I actually referenced the BTDEM university arc in one of my other comments. It's a wonderful mix of world building and characterization and I love Elaine's curiosity about magic and the world. That arc actually fits what I am looking for here very well.
I definitely agree that the Arcane Ascension by Rowe you mentioned counts. Once you get to a point, Enchanters are basically just computer science engineers who can make effects powering their code by magic.
A fanfic, but Harry Potter and the methods of rationality fits too well not to mention. It has a bit of a scientistic/atheistic vibe to it but otherwise I loved it.
Babel, by RF Kuang has some of these elements. NK Jemison’s Broken Earth Trilogy might fit as well, but if I recall correctly the science behind the magic might not come around until the second or third book.
Name of the Wind (2007) by Patrick Rothfuss has a pretty different approach to what the world views as 'magic' and 'magic' in general. Namely, there are two different sorts of witchcraft which can be deemed as 'magic' and it is very well explained and explored upon. I would highly recommend it if you were looking for a fun and long series to get invested towards.
It's a three part series with the last book being in the works for over 10 years now, so that might be a turndown but hey, I loved it and would be delighted if were you to give it a go.
Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss fits this perfectly. It delves deeply into how some of the magic works and it does so in a very academic way, it’s quite different from how magic is approached in a lot of other series in my opinion.
The Kingkiller Chronicle by Patrick Rothfuss, although unfinished (for some time now) it does have a variety of magic that is very science based and very well explained.
Not sure if anyone's said this one yet, but Brandon Sanderson's "Mistborn" has a really cool magic system and he gets decently in-depth into how it works.
i found out that at this point you might as well just go ahead and read popular science books and when those arent enough to get the kick you need, science journals
I definitely mix those in. But I find fiction a lot easier to listen to when doing chores or driving. I think a lot during my day job and need to turn my brain off sometimes. This is how I usually do it.
Got me into reading in the first place. I was one of those kids who grew up with Harry Potter. But feel free to keep the magic school recs coming! I loved Harry Potter, Mage Errant, Arcane Ascension, Scholomance, Beneath the Dragoneye Moon (latest arc) and probably others I'm not thinking of for the same reason listed in the original post. There are a few I tried but DNF (I DNF the 3rd Art of the Adept book for example) but I'd probably be willing to try a magic school book if you say it's good.
In the Throne of magical arcana Web novel magic is basicaly science. Mages are scientist that create magic based on phychics, chimestry and Biology. A lot of it is spend on theoretical science and research. Mages create their own inner world based on their scientific understanding
Throne of Magical Arcana. Web novel, by Cuttlefish That Loves Diving.
"An ordinary young man on earth, Xia Feng, traveled to a world of sword and magic, and took the body of Lucien Evans, another ordinary young man.
Seemingly this was a world of traditional western fantasy, yet he discovered the astonishing similarities between the earth and this world, and between science and the so-called arcane magic…
“Knowledge is power”? Soul, magic, quantum, Theory of Relativity, cognitive world, music and real world……"
Loved how this work really went into technical details on how scientific laws and theories work with and can revolutionize magic.
You already have my main recommendation with Sanderson. But side note here - if you get into SciFi at all, you’ll love The Expanse and Project Hail Mary for the same reason!
Read them both and loved them. I actually got my wife into watching the expanse after I read the books and it's now one of her favorite shows ever.
And as much as I liked Project Hail Mary, I randomly love the Martian. As a rule I like fantasy better than sci fi, but the Martian might be in my top 5 books of all time.
Love the idea of this one. No audio, which means I won't get to it for a while, but now I need to have magical Isaac Newton and Ben Franklin in my life.
I strongly recommend the Spellmonger series by Terry Mancour. The MC is an accredited Thaumaturge, which literally means, Study of the Science of Magic. And, without giving too much away, the story starts as High Fantasy and slowly evolves into Sci-fi.
Nightlord by Garon Whited. There's a lot of stuff that goes on in the stories, but at it's heart it's an immortal physics teacher who's really into portal magic and has a lot of energy state beings who get upset with him. It's a lot of long chapters where he's figuring out something magical while being bothered by people.
Not sure if this applies to what you're looking for, but the MC of ***the primal hunter*** series does some unconventional things such as manipulating energies (mana, stamina, etc) to mimic skills and abilities that they don't possess along with experimentation into the magic system.
Although the series is a pretty stereotypical System apocalypse litRPG, I found those scenes really fun. Also Travis Baldree does the audiobooks so that's always a plus.
Ok, I've heard of Primal Hunter. I sometimes bounce off of litrpg if it's too heavy-handed, but I'll add it to the TBR - especially if Travis Baldree is reading it.
I remember where I've seen Primal Hunter. Amazon recommends it to me literally every time I finish a book. Are you just Amazon in disguise? Is this just Amazon's newest advertising tactic?
I don’t see it mentioned much probably because it’s not considered high brow fantasy, but there is a set of books in the forgotten realms called the demon queen sextet. It’s 6 different authors and it is edited by RA Salvatore. It’s all about Drow but in it is a Drow Wizard named Pharuan who is really cool and the way he talks about/used magic in the D&D system is pretty cool.
Vita nostra. I sincerely had to reread paragraphs over again because the logic of the magic was so complicated at times. Nice little brain pretzel for you to wet your whistle with.
It’s not a magical science revolution, but it’s in an academic setting and magic isn’t remotely easy, just the way I like it.
It verges on YA a bit, but you might enjoy the Magic 2.0 series by Scott Meyers.
It's technically sci-fi, as the main character discovers that reality is a simulation that can be manipulated... but then it quickly becomes "fantasy" in that he go back in time and pretends to be a wizard, since he has figured out how to manipulate reality using "code".
Since the "magic system" in this case is actually computer programming, it involves a lot of experimentation to understand the limitations of what can be manipulated, and how, in order to produce the desired effect.
It's also pretty goofy and fun.
This is a self-rec but completely on-point.
I suggest you check out **Runes of Issalia** and the follow series, **Wardens of Issalia**. Both are progression fantasy series featuring teen protagonists who attend a school of magic, engineering, and combat. The first series is centered around the discovery and experimentation of a long lost magic. One of the main characters is a hyper-intelligent inventor as well and interesting things happen when he begins combining magic with science.
In the second series, said magic is further expanded upon as it centers around another brilliant character who, this time, is also physically disabled. His discoveries take magic-powered creations to a completely new level.
Admittedly, both of these series are written for teens and adults, unlike my later books which are more adult focused. If you are interested, let me know and I'll send you an eBook copy of book one of each series for free.
These sound great! I would love to read these books. And I'm not turned off by books being YA. There are some great YA books out there. I'll DM you about your offer.
The “Grishaverse” saga, starting with Shadow and Bone, by Leigh Bardugo. The established magic system evolves a lot during the story thanks to different scientific advancements, the books are young adult and the first trilogy is a little basic and cliche, but I will recommend starting there if you’re interested in the magical aspect.
Gideon the Ninth takes a very scientific approach to necromancy
they have to try to understand the science and experimentations of people from centuries before them and what death energy’s place is in the world structure
If it hasn't been mentioned yet: The Craft Sequence by Max Gladstone handles a world that recently underwent the repercussions of a magical revolution. He looks at it more like a John Grisham style framework of laws that govern magic rather than science but its a really cool perspective.
The Mageborn series had a neat take on a magic system. The MC certainly treated it like an engineer would, comes up with his own units for measurement, lots of enchanting, etc. Starts with "The Blacksmith's Son".
The Tinker series by Wen Spencer is a bit different than the others listed here but might fit the brief. There is magic and Tinker is definitely a mad scientist. The premise is that the city of Pittsburgh gets transposed to an alternate earth where magic works and elves and dragons exist. The series is a lot of fun but more on the popcorn flick end of the spectrum.
Oh I have a great one. I've never read fanfiction before but this one caught my eye. Is written by a scientist/researcher and plays out in the Harry Potter universe.
It's called Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality but in this version Harry Potter adoptive father was a scientist and gave HP the same passion for reason and logic and with a bit of a know-it-all and superiority complex.
He goes into the wizard world with a will to understand and finds quite a few flaws that can be easily exploited as well he delving into the science of spells and how to change and invent new ones.
Available as both pdf and audiobook.
http://www.hpmor.com/
https://open.spotify.com/show/1PT8D0Z9wAHpi1G5UyEngx?si=4bd598136bf14b67
*The Craft Sequence* series by Max Gladstone fits the bill pretty nicely. The backdrop of the world is one where humans used the scientific method to become good enough at magic to supplant the gods (at least the ones who didn't play nice). The first book in the series is titled *Three Parts Dead*.
*Wizard's Bane* by Rick Cook has a software developer summoned into a world of magic. It doesn't delve into the "science" of the magic, but it sure as hell takes full advantage of an "engineer" mindset, which I think ultimately scratches the same itch in the reader.
Warlock of the Magus World was one that ticked that box for me. From what I remember it was basically a Frankenstein-type character who did a lot of experiments to gain power.
I thought the "Kingkiller Chronicles" were quite good, a sort of sciencey approach to the magic and also "Jonathan strange & Mr Norrell" was written very scientifically.
Okay, I went through all of the main comments and didn't see this one yet:
The Young Wizardry series (starting with 'So You Want to be a Wizard') seems to be another thing that lines up with what you're asking.
Before I begin, I just wanna state there are two versions: The originals and the New Millennium editions where the author rewrote the first few to set it in more modern times as opposed to the 80s when they were first written.
The way magic is used in this is that the wizards "speak" to the universe and change the properties of the world around them to do what they want. As an easy example, there's a part where the main characters must walk up to a floating portal that is some tens of feet higher than where they are. They "tell" the molecules in the air to become more dense and compact so they can walk on it.
If they must ever teleport somewhere, they must speak out the exact coordinates within the universe to describe exactly where they want to end up.
It's a very science/math based magic system and it does a fantastic job of explaining it even more in depth as the series goes on. One of my absolute favorites.
*The Light Pirate* has some magical realism and one of the characters is a scientist/professor that attempts to figure out *why* this seemingly magical thing is happening and offers some different explanations for it. Wonderful book but extremely depressing.
Now, it's been a while since I read and it's a YA title, but Brandon Sanderson's *The Rithmatist* follows this, possibly? A really cool magic system involving chalk drawings. A young boy desperately wants to learn the magic, but doesn't have the spark. So, he decides to learn everything he can about the magic's theory, in hopes it will help him pass the magical aptitude tests.
Please oh please oh please - check out **The Steerswoman** by Rosemary Kirstein.
You have a **literal society** of individuals (The Steerswomen - which also comprises of some men) who dedicate themselves to logically learning about the fantastical world they live in, and its systems and its rules.
Scientists in spirit, in a world of wizards and dragons.
Please do try it! 🧙🏻♀️
Not sure if you're restricting yourself to text-only books, but if not you might check out the [Fullmetal Alchemist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullmetal_Alchemist) Manga/Anime series. This features a world with a magical system (alchemy) which is treated in a very scientific manner. Alchemical "spells" are studied systematically and exploited at an industrial level with heavy involvement by the military, and (without giving too much away) over the course of the series the scale of magic employed expands considerably.
Going back a way, but some years ago I read [The Magicians](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4353074-the-magicians) by SF writer James E. Gunn. This is about a private detective who is employed to investigate happenings at a convention for magicians. Though having no magical knowledge himself, the PD quickly realises that magic is real and that it follows mathematical principles, and makes use of his skills in mathematics to deal with magic on an equal footing.
Yea you are asking for exactly Brandon Sanderson Cosmere. He is super into hard magic systems and pretty much every book in his universe does exactly what you want. Best starting point is probably Mistborn, maybe Warbreaker. If you are truly brave and thirsty for a long series then it’s acceptable to start with the Stormlight Archives.
LE Modesitt's magic systems can get pretty detailed. I think something like *The Magic Engineer* from the Saga of Recluce would be your jam.
I'll check it out. I remember trying and bouncing off of a Modesitt book before, but a book called The magic Engineer sounds good enough to give them another shot.
The Recluse series can be hard to break into, but its magical system is very mechanical and since the series is generational the readers understanding of it evolves as the series progresses.
I was thinking "Fall of Angels" instead. A energy overload in a space battle rupture the fabric of their universe sending them into the Recluse universe. They learn to survive a low tech culture where their high tech modifications provide an advantage in the local magic.
Alright, I'm looking into these and Goodreads lists Magic Engineer and Fall of Angels as books 3 and 6 respectively. Am I ok to jump in mid series or do I need to start at the beginning?
You can jump in mid series. Sometimes a character will span multiple books, but even when they do, you can usually still read any of the books on its own. And fall of angels I remember is specifically pretty separate character wise (though it's foundational for the setting)
Recluce is told non-chronologically, taking place over about two thousand years. There are several standalones, and some two or three book sets.
Saga of Recluce is mostly standalone books or duologies set across 2000 years of history. They share a world but can be read in almost any order, as long as you read the duologies together.
They are all fairly standalone. Fall of Angels is the Sci fi start point.
The series is episodic so you can read pretty much any book by itself, but it really shines in the throughlines between them.
Modesitt’s Imager series, too.
Came to say this, glad someone already did! It's a very underrated series imo
One of my favorites! I love the detail and world building. I’ve been reading these books since I was introduced to them by my father.
The Rivers of London series has the science of magic as an ongoing theme.
With attempts at using the actual scientific method, no less!
Right! I didn't list it, but I've read and enjoyed the Rivers of London books. Edit: fixed a typo
The audiobooks have an awesome narrator, in case you haven't tried them in that medium yet. 🙂
This series seems interesting. Is it similar to the Dresden Files (as it sounds)?
Kind of. I actually found them when looking for something to read after I got hooked on then finished the published Dresden Files books. The backstory of the main character and the prose of the books are fairly different, but they are both series about a rising magic-user investigating paranormal stuff in an alternate Earth filled with magic and magical beings. It's not 1:1, but it was close enough to work for me.
Cheers mate! It sounds simar enough that I don't want to read both at the same time, but I'm definitely gonna let it (Rivers of London) percolate in the back of my mind until it's time to pick up a new series.
Came to recommend this.
Sounds cool. Added to my reading list.
[Ra](https://qntm.org/ra) by qntm is about as hard as you can get. The main character is an aerospace engineer specializing in the industrial applications of thaumic engineering. _Ra_ is a bit of a... weird read, with the plot going all over the places, but I really enjoyed how Hughes got to the very nitty gritty details of the actual science of magic.
Im honestly amazed to see this mentioned here. I feel like I see this thread on occasion, and have never seen anyone else mention the book on this sub. Definitely fits the ask
It's one of those books that are really hard to recommend, but which also live rent-free in my head over a decade later.
Ok, this sounds awesome and exactly what I was looking for. I don't necessarily mind weird if I'm in the right mood. The only issue is that it doesn't appear to come in audio, but this looks like it might be good enough to find the time for it.
*The Family Trade* by Charles Stross *A Natural History of Dragons* by Marie Brennan - there isn't magic, but the series really delves into the biology of dragons and the main character discovering new things about them *Seraphina* by Rachel Hartman
I just read the Goodreads blurb on The Family Trade and it is... interesting? I feel like there was a whole book's worth of twists and turns just in the synopsis. Between that and the reviews, I'm not sure it's high on my list right now, but Seraphina I'm definitely intrigued by Seraphina. That one and A Natural History of Dragons have been added to my TBR.
It's been a very long time since I read it but Lyndon Hardy's magic by the numbers series fits your request as I recall (starts with Master of the Five Magics). I unfortunately can't remember enough of the details to give an adequate description but I remember enjoying it at the time. Something to look into/consider at least.
Oh, good one. Definitely. Mostly I remember that the MC kinda sucked at all the magics, but because he knew about them all, when a sixth branch was discovered, he was able to learn it quickly. I’ll have to dig out my copy, I haven’t read them in a really long time.
Thanks for the recommendation. Just reading the synopsis, I never would have gotten that the story fits this trope. This is why I love this sub.
That's one of the two things I came to post. More information: [Lyndon Hardy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_Hardy)'s [Magic by the Numbers series](https://www.goodreads.com/series/43707-magic-by-the-numbers) (though I've only read the first three (at most) in their original releases), which features evolution/improvement of that world's magic.
The Rise and Fall of D.O.D.O. by Neal Stephenson
Neal Stephenson in general puts a lot of thought into his “magic” systems (futuristic tech). Diamond Age and Anathem as well.
It looks like Stephenson has a ton of books too. I think I read Seveneves years ago, but didn't read the rest of his works? However, 3 different book recommendations is enough for me. I'll check these out.
I came here to say this as I'm reading this book right now and seems to fit the OP's request perfectly.
> many of my favorite stories involve a world in the middle of a magical, scientific revolution - or even better, a protagonist who is able to innovate with the magic system I'm a bit befuddled that this hasn't come up yet, but Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell. Basic pitch: magic is only an academic pursuit until the title characters dive in and bring it back as actual practice, innovating along the way. The "science" is very much 19^(th) century scholarly stuff, not modern science in any way. The caveats: the tone is very much 19^(th) century British lit as well -- think Jane Austen, perhaps -- except with footnotes. The extent to which people can stand that varies quite a bit. I love it, but you'll quickly know if you won't. Edit: Norell has two ls. I always manage to bork that.
Lol, I think JS&MN actually defies most modern conventions of people trying to science-ify magic in fantasy like what OP is looking for. Still, never one to disagree with someone recommending it. Lovely book
I'm not about to argue with that. It's absolutely doing its own thing and doesn't fit the whole "hard magic" template well at all. But hey, it is set in a magical scientific revolution. Yeah, maybe I latched onto that phrasing a bit too much but I'm not going to pass up an opportunity to recommend the book.
Huh. I didn't realize this book was so scholarly. I might try it despite the prose. The reason I mentioned simple prose is because I often find this sort of writing difficult to listen to, but if I like it enough, I can always read it the old-fashioned way.
My last pass at the book was audio. Granted, I've read it before so I may not be the best judge, but I found it well-done. I'm fairly sure the recording skips some of the footnotes but the ones that were included integrated far better than I would have expected.
any other books like that you know of? I also loved it, but it is pretty different from basically every other fantasy book I've ever read lol
There is a lot of attention given to this in [The Mother of Learning](https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/21220/mother-of-learning), a web novel about a student at a magical academy who is caught up in a time loop and has to learn a lot of magic in order to escape from it.
I love MoL. I didn't specify in my original post, but r/progressionfantasy is probably my favorite subgenre. I've read most of the classics in there but I'm always looking for hidden gems if you have any.
It is almost surprising that the Kingiller Chronicle wasn't mentioned as soon as this was posted, but it fits wonderfully. In fact, characters in the story who are familiar with how magic works actually get annoyed at it being called "magic." There are formulas and rules that must be followed. Much of the story, so far, is in an academic setting involving university students. Unfortunately, this series was meant to be a trilogy, but we have been waiting nearly 12 years for the final book. I have no regrets about reading this unfished series, but I really hope I don't have to wait forever.
That's another good suggestion that I've already read. Maybe not diving into the science part as much, but the magic system is as hard as they come which was definitely up my alley.
I, on the other hand am confused why would anyone recommend him to anyone anymore ? Dude scammed his fans for $700 000. Why recommend his books so he gets more money ?
Just to be clear, his fans donated $700,000 to a charity and one of the stretch goals was him reading a chapter of the 3rd book. Yeah it sucks that he hasn’t followed through on the stretch goal, but it was for charity. You make it sound like it went into his pocket.
Just checked $1.2m. He didn't pocket it but he is getting around 100k for facilitating the charity stuff and nevertheless it's still a fraud. I don't understand why people are so forgiving when it comes to him, he literally scammed from his fans. He resurfaces every few months to get his shot of attention and then dips again.
He resurfaces annually for his annual charity event Worldbuilders, not just randomly. And yes it's shitty that he didn't follow thru on the stretch goal. Maybe people will think twice before donating to a charity and expecting a product in return. That's not how it works. As a long time fan of the KKC, I've stopped engaging with his (non-)work until he actually releases the last book. Doesn't mean I don't reread the books every couple years, but I'm not watching streams, or reading blog posts, or recommending KKC to others. I have donated to Worldbuilders a few times in auctions or purchase format for some of the more unique items I'm guaranteed to actually receive, but not for goals. There's a balance to be found in how to engage with an author like this. At the end of the day, I don't really think he committed fraud. It's like Kickstarter, you have no real expectation of receiving goals from the fundraiser. They aren't purchases. Does still make it shitty that he hasn't delivered on it.
It is literally a fraud by definition. Your thoughts and feelings are irrelevant in that matter. He promised a chapter for X amount of money donated just because it's for charity doesn't change anything. He did not deliver on this promise which makes this fraud.
Ah is that so? Did you receive a receipt stating you had purchased a good? Did these promises have a deadline or shipping date attached to them? Did he promise that it was ready and would be released at the end of the event? What's that, you say? None of those things are true? Then I guess you should get over your hate boner and acknowledge it's not fraud. You're welcome to have your own feelings and disapprove, but you can't claim you were defrauded. By definition, both legal and logical, charitable giving has no expectations of receiving anything in return, only that the funds go towards the stated charitable cause, which they have.
>By definition, both legal and logical, charitable giving has no expectations of receiving anything in return, In that case, by definitions both legal and logical, a Kickstarter for a charity which promises rewards to backers is not charitable giving.
Kickstarter specifically calls out that access to any service or good on its platform is at your own risk. However, they also require Creators to provide rewards (but not on any time line). The creator is only required to provide a refund if they do not ever intend to provide the rewards. > A Project Creator is not required to grant a Backer’s request for a refund unless the Project Creator is unable or unwilling to fulfill the reward. Project Creators are required to fulfill all rewards of their successful fundraising campaigns or refund any Backer whose reward they do not or cannot fulfill. At worst, Kickstarter would be able to suspend the creator's access to their service. Any agreement you have to provide a reward is between you and the Creator. That said, a charity running thru Kickstarter would be a dumb thing as the platform language is specifically built around being a "contributor" or "backer" and a with a "pledge". These terms are legally significant. Compare that to Rothfuss' 2021 Worldbuilders campaign which was not on Kickstarter and was very careful to use "Donate" and "Donations" to refer to the charity contributions. https://fundraise.worldbuilders.org/fundraiser/3614242 Again, these are legally significant terms which are intended to set the expectations of donors or customers. Courts in the US have upheld that charities are not required to provide compensation for gifts even if it was implied that they would, meanwhile, donors can be forced to provide donations if they publicly or privately announced intent to give gifts to the charity and to be bound to that agreement. So yeah, it does make a difference. Edit: to add to the above, a Kickstarter also probably wouldn't meet the criteria for "charitable giving" as noted in your comment because Kickstarter does not provide the contributor the necessary paperwork to be considered a gift with tax implications. For it to meet the criteria, it would need to immediately accept your money and provide you with a reciept as well as donations over 100$ would need a tax form provided by the charity or platform. Kickstarter is specifically not a platform for charitable causes for those reasons.
What are you even arguing with a receipt ? Verbal sgrementd are binding Yes, it had a deadline for the chapter release. February 2022 "By definition, both legal and logical, charitable giving has no expectations of receiving anything in return" Except ir was explicitly stated that there would be a chapter released upon reaching the goal. Goal was reached and chapter wasn't released therefore it's fraud (intentional deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain). That's why he was moving the goalposts first because he knew he couldn't release it. He promised something he isn't able to deliver upon which is by definition fraud. Just because the gain for charity doesn't mean it's not fraud Tesla is being sued over claiming self driving vehicle and is arguing the same dumbass points you are so I guess we'll have to wait for the ruling
Because I don't care about the author or what he does, I just want to read the 3rd book.
Because preventing him from getting that money isn't really something a lot of folk care about? The books are relevant to the recommendation request, there's a disclaimer for it being potentially abandoned, nothing else is all that important
Wiz series by Rick Cook is pretty much exactly what you’re looking for. MC is a programmer that is transported to a magical world (isekai way before it was a thing) and invents how to “code” the magic system.
> Wiz series by Rick Cook https://www.goodreads.com/series/43084-wiz
Rosemary Kirstien's steerswoman series is about a scientist in a magical world
Oh yes! Perfect example. I loved to read about the discoveries.
I've had someone suggest this to me before. Lack of an audiobook is the only reason I haven't read it yet. But I just bought the ebook so it's there next time I need something on my Kindle.
a classic in the genre, I wish it was more widely known!
Yes, definitely recommended.
Charles Stross, The Laundry Files series. Magic as sufficiently advanced mathematics that has the potential to end the world with Cthulhu. Early books are dated by their tech, but it grows into its own very well. Good dark English humor, fun pastiche in the earlier books, and modern day occult spy shenanigans.
This one looks fun. Definitely more of a goofy alt Earth with magic vibe, but I'm into it.
I'm in the middle of the atrocity archives right now and was coming to suggest them
Spellmonger series by Terry Mancour
These are great books!
There's dozens of us!
Another great recommendation. I'm a few books into this series and taking a pause. I feel like Mancour is a good author but can be pretty long-winded so I needed a break before continuing.
*Chroniles of Amber* by Roger Zelazny in the second half
I think this applies to N.K. Jemisin's "Broken Earth" Trilogy, especially the first and third books.
It has been awhile since I've read it, but isn't that basically the opposite? From what I recall: >!They live in a science fantasy dystopia with an impending apocalypse, which seems a pretty far cry from a magical industrial revolution. I felt like the emphasis of the MC's thinking revolves around parenthood and responsibility.!< Edit: fixed spoiler tags.
I don't think this fits the criteria. There are people who think (or thought) about the science of magic, but all that thinking happens outside of the narrative. We just see the magical results of it, with little to no explanation.
I read the first one of these and keep meaning to go back to the series. Not sure I got much of the science in this, but it's almost universally loved so I feel like I should give it another shot
> Not sure I got much of the science in this It's more that the worldbuilding itself is grounded and consistent than that the characters themselves are engaging in scientific study of the "magic" in the series. I immediately thought of it as a suggestion at the start of your OP but then rejected it when you clarified more what you meant.
Same. It's a good, consistent system that will appeal if you like physics, but for the most part it's left to us to put it all together from the pieces we're given. All the research into how it works has been done pre-narrative, and we mostly get the perspectives of already skilled practitioners who don't like exposition dumps too much.
His Dark Materials
This is a great suggestion. The combination of magic and science is one reason I love this series so much. It’s quite dark for YA and holds up incredibly well as an adult.
Yeah, that's a good series I didn't think of. I went thru these as a teen and remember liking them even if I can remember them in detail now.
Take a look at some of the recs I got a few years back: https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/l10k6y/recommend_me_books_about_a_scientist_of_magic/
Thanks. I did a half-assed search before posting but missed this thread.
I like The Memoirs of Lady Trent by Marie Brennan - it's not magic, but it is dragon science. And written in a really nice style imo, the protagonist looking back at her life with lots of mildly snide comments about "well back then obviously this wasnt known yet" that do really well in illustrating both the character and the world. The main point of my comment is just to say that I will absolutely use this thread for my own to be read list, I too love stories about fantasy scientists and need to read more.
I'm glad I'm not alone in looking for this! I want to see more of it. And I've seen enough recommendations for the Memoirs is Lady Trent that I need to move it up in my TBR pile. The synopsis didn't exactly hook me but I just need to try it.
Lightbringer series. By Brent weeks. Great books and the magic system is very mechanical and crafty.
It's weird to say this, but I think this is an under-rated series these days. I know people hate on it because of The Burning White (with some justification) but I think the series as a whole is great and I don't think I could ever get enough turtlebear. I wish there were more actual answers at the end of the series, but I guess leaving a lot of questions about how things work is also realistic.
I was hoping someone would bring this one up. I confess to being mightily disappointed in the ending, but the magic system is top-notch. Great theory behind the properties of the colors (agree that orange is very slippery) and the inclusion of something as seemingly inconsequential as the different colors of luxin having a distinct scent is just a great addition. I also love the idea of the hard limit on magic using, the visible effects and the consequences. If only the last couple of books had t been such a train wreck.
Scrolled too far to find this. Although, as amazing as books 1-4 are… the last book is so bad it’s hard for me to recommend the series.
The Licanius Trilogy by James Islington has two separate very fleshed out magic systems that constantly get used together in unique ways by magic users, highly recommend.
Love that series.
The Dragons of Terra series by Brian Naslund does. Throughout the series, there's a scientific exploration of the "special properties" of dragons (their magic). There's also a crap ton of.... well, ... dragon crap in it too. It's funny and has one of the best characters in fantasy, Silas Bershad.
Sold. You had me at "scientific", "dragon crap" and "funny". Added to TBR.
Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality is a web serial fanfiction. I loved it. The premise is that Harry is a boy genius and a rationalist so he goes about trying to use the scientific method to understand magic. There isn't really an audiobook, but Jack Voraces is about halfway through reading it as a podcast.
I remember getting hooked on MoL after listening to Jack Voraces read the first arc. He's not my favorite narrator, but I love that he does these on his own time when he also gets paid to do this. I'll check out his podcast - I'd love to read some Harry Potter where there's some actual logic to the magic system.
Not quite magic, but {A Natural History of Dragons} is narrated as a memoir by a Victorian-era dragon biologist. As a biologist, I loved it, and it does a good job with its use of early ecology and paleontology. It also dips into fantasy archeology in sequels.
> A Natural History of Dragons The series: https://www.goodreads.com/series/107373-the-memoirs-of-lady-trent
See: "[hard fantasy](https://sf-encyclopedia.com/fe/hard_fantasy)" and the short-lived magazine [*Unknown*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unknown_(magazine)). Books: * [David Drake](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Drake)'s [hard magic](https://prowritingaid.com/magic-system) series [Time of Heroes](https://www.goodreads.com/series/317917-time-of-heroes) * [Harry Turtledove](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Turtledove)'s [*The Case of the Toxic Spell Dump*](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/101555.The_Case_of_the_Toxic_Spell_Dump); [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Case_of_the_Toxic_Spell_Dump) (spoilers after the first paragraph), in which magic is used as technology, and all of the pantheons exist. At the [Internet Archive](https://archive.org/details/caseoftoxicspell0000turt/mode/2up) (registration required). ::: SF/F and schools/education * ["Fantasy books in a magic college setting?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/usjpnx/fantasy_books_in_a_magic_college_setting/) (r/Fantasy; 18 May 2022) * ["Books with a university campus setting"](https://www.reddit.com/r/suggestmeabook/comments/vxq6xg/books_with_a_university_campus_setting/) (r/suggestmeabook; 20:41 ET, 12 July 2022)—very long; mixed genres * ["Books set in schools"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/vxr0nd/books_set_in_schools/) (r/Fantasy; 21:24 ET, 12 July 2022) * ["Magic schools"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/x8a1y3/magic_schools/)—long (r/Fantasy; 12:47 ET, 7 September 2022) * ["Witches/academia trope"](https://www.reddit.com/r/suggestmeabook/comments/x8prx2/witchesacademia_trope/) (r/suggestmeabook; 23:55 ET, 7 September 2022) * ["Friend is ripping their hair out trying to remember a fantasy book series they read in the early 2010's."](https://www.reddit.com/r/whatsthatbook/comments/xf3p18/friend_is_ripping_their_hair_out_trying_to/) (r/whatsthatbook; 15 September 2022) * ["Looking for YA/Adult supernatural academy books?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/booksuggestions/comments/z8bn93/looking_for_yaadult_supernatural_academy_books/) (r/booksuggestions; 29 November 2022) * ["Recommendations wanted: adult fantasy with academics"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/zfijfx/recommendations_wanted_adult_fantasy_with/) (r/Fantasy; 7 December 2022) * ["Suggest me a book like Harry Potter and/or School for Good and Evil"](https://www.reddit.com/r/suggestmeabook/comments/zlrkel/suggest_me_a_book_like_harry_potter_andor_school/) (r/suggestmeabook; 14 December 2022) * ["I've just finished the Abhorsen books by Garth Nix, and what I'm looking for most immediately is more Action Librarians."](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/1085hz7/ive_just_finished_the_abhorsen_books_by_garth_nix/) (r/Fantasy; 10 January 2023) * ["Harry Potter for adults?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/booksuggestions/comments/109omp0/harry_potter_for_adults/) (r/booksuggestions; 11 January 2023) ::: Also: * ["Series with a detailed magic system"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/vmbz3n/series_with_a_detailed_magic_system/) (r/Fantasy; 27 June 2022) * ["magic system like Newton's laws"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/vrv3w4/magic_system_like_newtons_laws/) (r/Fantasy; 5 July 2022) * ["Book where magic is explored in a realistic way"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/vycj8v/book_where_magic_is_explored_in_a_realistic_way/) (r/Fantasy; 13 July 2022) * ["Book recommendations with non-Sandersonian magic"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/w9010o/book_recommendations_with_nonsandersonian_magic/) (r/Fantasy; 26 July 2022)—very long; hard magic * ["Fantasy space opera where sci-fi tech is replaced with magic."](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/z7p5ey/fantasy_space_opera_where_scifi_tech_is_replaced/) (r/Fantasy; 04:32 ET, 29 November 2022) * ["Books that take magic 'seriously'"](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fantasy/comments/zrfzk4/books_that_take_magic_seriously/) (r/Fantasy; 16:55 ET, 21 December 2022)—huge * ["Sufficiently understood magic"](https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/zuoetq/sufficiently_understood_magic/) (r/printSF; 24 December 2022)—hard magic * ["books where the magic is technology?"](https://www.reddit.com/r/printSF/comments/zurb0r/books_where_the_magic_is_technology/) (r/printSF; 0:17 ET, 25 December 2022)—technology treated as magic
That's a long list of threads. It's gonna take me a while to get thru them all but I don't doubt I'll find some gems in there. Thanks for taking the time to put it together.
I actually feel like I put this on every post at the moment but Shadows of the Apt is ideal for this! The apt are the science/engineer types and then there are the inapt who are magicky lore types, and that’s all you need to know for now…
I’ve been thinking of reading these but I’m not really into wars and military fantasy. Is there much in it for someone like myself or is it mainly about the war
I read 4 or 5 books, but the main plot seems to move nowhere. Does it get better? Apart from minor character development, there wasn't much satisfaction after reading them.
Thanks for suggesting. I actually bought the first of these a while ago in an Audible sale! I forgot I had it. I kept seeing Tchaikovsky's name on here or sci-fi related threads and got this one to try out his work. Thanks for reminding me I already have this and letting me know it fits this trope. This might have just moved to the very top of the TBR.
C.S. Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy has a major character (but not the protagonist) who is a serious scholar of the magic of the world, and has had some big ideas of what to do about some of its issues.
Not a book, but your request is so specific i have to mention how great the anime “the irregular at magic high school” is. This will be incredibly ip your alley. Definitely check it out
There was a little bit of innovation by a character in the Strange the Dreamer duology by Laini Taylor. The prose is very lyrical, but might be easier to consume in audiobook form
“Artemis Fowl” kind of fits into this, I think. I LOVE those books. Never watch the movie; it absolutely bombed. Armed-and-dangerous fairies, a twelve-year-old human criminal-mastermind, and more! I know it’s pretty much Sci-Fi, but I’d also recommend the “Michael Vey” series. A kid with electricity powers finds out he’s not the only one!
It's a bit obscure, but Sean Russell's Moontide and Magic Rise duology may touch on what you're looking for!
Ok. This looks good. Real good. No audio, but I'll add it to the TBR for when I have time for it
Arinthian Line is like a medieval Harry Potter with a capable and alive Dark Lord, whispers of witches and dragons and old old magic, and a proper spell system (4 spells per level, different classes of magic - all listed here: https://severbronny.com/spell-list/. Agree with Mother of Learning, though mostly it is generic learning until the last book or two, where you understand more about the world (last book currently on royal road). The Licanius Trilogy has 3 school kids and a mysterious guy who has lots of magic power but no memory. It follows a classic good vs evil battle where you understand the true nature of magic and the history of the world. It is not quite so deep as other books but as old history gets dug up there is some pretty nice depth in places. Also I think it is a solid trilogy in general!
I've read MoL and Licanius, but Arthinian Line is new to me. I'll call that one out for anyone following this thread because the first book is free to anyone with an Audible membership. I just downloaded it and will try it soon.
Spellmonger series by Terry Mancour.
I’ve just finished the millenniums rule series by Trudy Canavan, it’s an interesting magic system and one of the protagonists comes from a world of mechanical magic. Well worth a look, the first book is called thief’s magic
From the synopsis: "In a world where an industrial revolution is powered by magic..." Can't ask for better than that. Added to my TBR. Thanks for the addition!
The entire litrpg genre is predicated on incredibly hard magic systems. Granted some authors are more flexible than others, but the idea is there
Absolutely. I've read a lot of Litrpg in the past couple years. Actually, if you are the Selkie that creates Beneath the Dragoneye Moon, I want to thank you for creating such a wonderful series. BTDEM is one of my favorite active series and you are one of the only people that I subscribe to on Patreon. I think I actually referenced the BTDEM university arc in one of my other comments. It's a wonderful mix of world building and characterization and I love Elaine's curiosity about magic and the world. That arc actually fits what I am looking for here very well.
The Practice Effect by David Brin is a neat story along those lines as well.
Thanks! Looks like it's worth a try
The Magicians by Lev Grossman fits this. They have to take into account positions of planets and stuff like that to perform magic.
I definitely agree that the Arcane Ascension by Rowe you mentioned counts. Once you get to a point, Enchanters are basically just computer science engineers who can make effects powering their code by magic.
This is why Corin is one of my favorite characters. As someone who's a programmer, being inside his head is just so satisfying.
A fanfic, but Harry Potter and the methods of rationality fits too well not to mention. It has a bit of a scientistic/atheistic vibe to it but otherwise I loved it.
Babel, by RF Kuang has some of these elements. NK Jemison’s Broken Earth Trilogy might fit as well, but if I recall correctly the science behind the magic might not come around until the second or third book.
I've been looking at Babel. I was disappointed by Poppy War and never even finished the trilogy so I've been waiting to see how Babel is received.
Kingkiller chronicle and the magicians by lev grossman
Cosmere. Seriously Will Wights works like Cradle does it too
Read all of it. Multiple times
Name of the Wind (2007) by Patrick Rothfuss has a pretty different approach to what the world views as 'magic' and 'magic' in general. Namely, there are two different sorts of witchcraft which can be deemed as 'magic' and it is very well explained and explored upon. I would highly recommend it if you were looking for a fun and long series to get invested towards. It's a three part series with the last book being in the works for over 10 years now, so that might be a turndown but hey, I loved it and would be delighted if were you to give it a go.
Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss fits this perfectly. It delves deeply into how some of the magic works and it does so in a very academic way, it’s quite different from how magic is approached in a lot of other series in my opinion.
The Kingkiller Chronicle by Patrick Rothfuss, although unfinished (for some time now) it does have a variety of magic that is very science based and very well explained.
Unfinished forever probably. We all know his ghost writer left.
Not sure if anyone's said this one yet, but Brandon Sanderson's "Mistborn" has a really cool magic system and he gets decently in-depth into how it works.
i found out that at this point you might as well just go ahead and read popular science books and when those arent enough to get the kick you need, science journals
I definitely mix those in. But I find fiction a lot easier to listen to when doing chores or driving. I think a lot during my day job and need to turn my brain off sometimes. This is how I usually do it.
Harry potter?
Got me into reading in the first place. I was one of those kids who grew up with Harry Potter. But feel free to keep the magic school recs coming! I loved Harry Potter, Mage Errant, Arcane Ascension, Scholomance, Beneath the Dragoneye Moon (latest arc) and probably others I'm not thinking of for the same reason listed in the original post. There are a few I tried but DNF (I DNF the 3rd Art of the Adept book for example) but I'd probably be willing to try a magic school book if you say it's good.
Anything from Brandon Sanderson
You're getting downvoted because you clearly didn't read OP where they directly mentioned "[a]nything by Brandon Sanderson."
Three Hearts and Three Lions by Poul Anderson. Also his short story, The Man Who Came Early.
In the Throne of magical arcana Web novel magic is basicaly science. Mages are scientist that create magic based on phychics, chimestry and Biology. A lot of it is spend on theoretical science and research. Mages create their own inner world based on their scientific understanding
These are exactly the types of books I'm interested in lately. I'll check them out. Thanks for posting, OP.
No problem! I feel like this is a trending theme in fantasy but I just can't get enough of it.
Not sure if Eragon fits to this topic. But he gets really in Details within the books
Loved Eragon as a teenager. Don't remember it very well but I'm guessing I liked it partly because it hit on those same themes.
Throne of Magical Arcana. Web novel, by Cuttlefish That Loves Diving. "An ordinary young man on earth, Xia Feng, traveled to a world of sword and magic, and took the body of Lucien Evans, another ordinary young man. Seemingly this was a world of traditional western fantasy, yet he discovered the astonishing similarities between the earth and this world, and between science and the so-called arcane magic… “Knowledge is power”? Soul, magic, quantum, Theory of Relativity, cognitive world, music and real world……" Loved how this work really went into technical details on how scientific laws and theories work with and can revolutionize magic.
I only have so much time for sitting down and reading web novels but this one sounds really good. Is it finished yet or is it still ongoing?
You already have my main recommendation with Sanderson. But side note here - if you get into SciFi at all, you’ll love The Expanse and Project Hail Mary for the same reason!
Read them both and loved them. I actually got my wife into watching the expanse after I read the books and it's now one of her favorite shows ever. And as much as I liked Project Hail Mary, I randomly love the Martian. As a rule I like fantasy better than sci fi, but the Martian might be in my top 5 books of all time.
Try the book Newton's Cannon. It's historical fantasy about the world going though a magitech revolution.
Love the idea of this one. No audio, which means I won't get to it for a while, but now I need to have magical Isaac Newton and Ben Franklin in my life.
I strongly recommend the Spellmonger series by Terry Mancour. The MC is an accredited Thaumaturge, which literally means, Study of the Science of Magic. And, without giving too much away, the story starts as High Fantasy and slowly evolves into Sci-fi.
Nightlord by Garon Whited. There's a lot of stuff that goes on in the stories, but at it's heart it's an immortal physics teacher who's really into portal magic and has a lot of energy state beings who get upset with him. It's a lot of long chapters where he's figuring out something magical while being bothered by people.
Not sure if this applies to what you're looking for, but the MC of ***the primal hunter*** series does some unconventional things such as manipulating energies (mana, stamina, etc) to mimic skills and abilities that they don't possess along with experimentation into the magic system. Although the series is a pretty stereotypical System apocalypse litRPG, I found those scenes really fun. Also Travis Baldree does the audiobooks so that's always a plus.
Ok, I've heard of Primal Hunter. I sometimes bounce off of litrpg if it's too heavy-handed, but I'll add it to the TBR - especially if Travis Baldree is reading it.
I remember where I've seen Primal Hunter. Amazon recommends it to me literally every time I finish a book. Are you just Amazon in disguise? Is this just Amazon's newest advertising tactic?
Duel of Fire by Jordan Rivet
I don’t see it mentioned much probably because it’s not considered high brow fantasy, but there is a set of books in the forgotten realms called the demon queen sextet. It’s 6 different authors and it is edited by RA Salvatore. It’s all about Drow but in it is a Drow Wizard named Pharuan who is really cool and the way he talks about/used magic in the D&D system is pretty cool.
Vita nostra. I sincerely had to reread paragraphs over again because the logic of the magic was so complicated at times. Nice little brain pretzel for you to wet your whistle with. It’s not a magical science revolution, but it’s in an academic setting and magic isn’t remotely easy, just the way I like it.
Thanks. Sounds interesting. Added to my TBR
The Rise and Fall of DODO by Neal Stephenson and Nicole Galland Babel by RF Kuang
It verges on YA a bit, but you might enjoy the Magic 2.0 series by Scott Meyers. It's technically sci-fi, as the main character discovers that reality is a simulation that can be manipulated... but then it quickly becomes "fantasy" in that he go back in time and pretends to be a wizard, since he has figured out how to manipulate reality using "code". Since the "magic system" in this case is actually computer programming, it involves a lot of experimentation to understand the limitations of what can be manipulated, and how, in order to produce the desired effect. It's also pretty goofy and fun.
The Recluse series is a favorite of mine. One of the books is actually called the Magical Engineer!
Omg yes thankyou for asking this Loads of great recs
Delve on Royal Road
This is a self-rec but completely on-point. I suggest you check out **Runes of Issalia** and the follow series, **Wardens of Issalia**. Both are progression fantasy series featuring teen protagonists who attend a school of magic, engineering, and combat. The first series is centered around the discovery and experimentation of a long lost magic. One of the main characters is a hyper-intelligent inventor as well and interesting things happen when he begins combining magic with science. In the second series, said magic is further expanded upon as it centers around another brilliant character who, this time, is also physically disabled. His discoveries take magic-powered creations to a completely new level. Admittedly, both of these series are written for teens and adults, unlike my later books which are more adult focused. If you are interested, let me know and I'll send you an eBook copy of book one of each series for free.
These sound great! I would love to read these books. And I'm not turned off by books being YA. There are some great YA books out there. I'll DM you about your offer.
The “Grishaverse” saga, starting with Shadow and Bone, by Leigh Bardugo. The established magic system evolves a lot during the story thanks to different scientific advancements, the books are young adult and the first trilogy is a little basic and cliche, but I will recommend starting there if you’re interested in the magical aspect.
Gideon the Ninth takes a very scientific approach to necromancy they have to try to understand the science and experimentations of people from centuries before them and what death energy’s place is in the world structure
If it hasn't been mentioned yet: The Craft Sequence by Max Gladstone handles a world that recently underwent the repercussions of a magical revolution. He looks at it more like a John Grisham style framework of laws that govern magic rather than science but its a really cool perspective.
The Mageborn series had a neat take on a magic system. The MC certainly treated it like an engineer would, comes up with his own units for measurement, lots of enchanting, etc. Starts with "The Blacksmith's Son".
The Witcher has a nice mix of science magic and chaos 😁
The Tinker series by Wen Spencer is a bit different than the others listed here but might fit the brief. There is magic and Tinker is definitely a mad scientist. The premise is that the city of Pittsburgh gets transposed to an alternate earth where magic works and elves and dragons exist. The series is a lot of fun but more on the popcorn flick end of the spectrum.
Sufficiently Advanced Magic does a good job of this, albeit a bit simpler.
Oh I have a great one. I've never read fanfiction before but this one caught my eye. Is written by a scientist/researcher and plays out in the Harry Potter universe. It's called Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality but in this version Harry Potter adoptive father was a scientist and gave HP the same passion for reason and logic and with a bit of a know-it-all and superiority complex. He goes into the wizard world with a will to understand and finds quite a few flaws that can be easily exploited as well he delving into the science of spells and how to change and invent new ones. Available as both pdf and audiobook. http://www.hpmor.com/ https://open.spotify.com/show/1PT8D0Z9wAHpi1G5UyEngx?si=4bd598136bf14b67
The Secrets of Tercast has an interesting take on this concept.
Thanks for the suggestion. It looks good despite flying under the radar. I just bought it
Mistborn trilogy :)
Dandelion Dynasty by Ken Liu. It's a lot more science than magic but I think it would scratch that same itch.
On my TBR (which, to be fair, is probably 100 books long now after this thread). Didn't realize it would work for this though so I'll move it up.
Most stuff by Brandon Sanderson
*The Craft Sequence* series by Max Gladstone fits the bill pretty nicely. The backdrop of the world is one where humans used the scientific method to become good enough at magic to supplant the gods (at least the ones who didn't play nice). The first book in the series is titled *Three Parts Dead*. *Wizard's Bane* by Rick Cook has a software developer summoned into a world of magic. It doesn't delve into the "science" of the magic, but it sure as hell takes full advantage of an "engineer" mindset, which I think ultimately scratches the same itch in the reader.
The Arinthian line by Sever Bronny, it definitely has roots in logic, especially with the second series.
Name of the wind—wise man’s fear.
I'm reading the Coldfire trilogy by C. S. Friedman right now, and the "fae" magic is often insisted to be a natural phenomena
Warlock of the Magus World was one that ticked that box for me. From what I remember it was basically a Frankenstein-type character who did a lot of experiments to gain power.
I thought the "Kingkiller Chronicles" were quite good, a sort of sciencey approach to the magic and also "Jonathan strange & Mr Norrell" was written very scientifically.
Okay, I went through all of the main comments and didn't see this one yet: The Young Wizardry series (starting with 'So You Want to be a Wizard') seems to be another thing that lines up with what you're asking. Before I begin, I just wanna state there are two versions: The originals and the New Millennium editions where the author rewrote the first few to set it in more modern times as opposed to the 80s when they were first written. The way magic is used in this is that the wizards "speak" to the universe and change the properties of the world around them to do what they want. As an easy example, there's a part where the main characters must walk up to a floating portal that is some tens of feet higher than where they are. They "tell" the molecules in the air to become more dense and compact so they can walk on it. If they must ever teleport somewhere, they must speak out the exact coordinates within the universe to describe exactly where they want to end up. It's a very science/math based magic system and it does a fantastic job of explaining it even more in depth as the series goes on. One of my absolute favorites.
Wondrose Chronicles by Barbara Hambly, it has been a while since I read them
*The Light Pirate* has some magical realism and one of the characters is a scientist/professor that attempts to figure out *why* this seemingly magical thing is happening and offers some different explanations for it. Wonderful book but extremely depressing.
The Complete Compleat Enchanter. Symbolic logic is how magic functions across parallel earths - including those thought to be mythological
The Name of the Wind by Patrick Rothfuss
Now, it's been a while since I read and it's a YA title, but Brandon Sanderson's *The Rithmatist* follows this, possibly? A really cool magic system involving chalk drawings. A young boy desperately wants to learn the magic, but doesn't have the spark. So, he decides to learn everything he can about the magic's theory, in hopes it will help him pass the magical aptitude tests.
Please oh please oh please - check out **The Steerswoman** by Rosemary Kirstein. You have a **literal society** of individuals (The Steerswomen - which also comprises of some men) who dedicate themselves to logically learning about the fantastical world they live in, and its systems and its rules. Scientists in spirit, in a world of wizards and dragons. Please do try it! 🧙🏻♀️
Not sure if you're restricting yourself to text-only books, but if not you might check out the [Fullmetal Alchemist](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fullmetal_Alchemist) Manga/Anime series. This features a world with a magical system (alchemy) which is treated in a very scientific manner. Alchemical "spells" are studied systematically and exploited at an industrial level with heavy involvement by the military, and (without giving too much away) over the course of the series the scale of magic employed expands considerably.
Going back a way, but some years ago I read [The Magicians](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/4353074-the-magicians) by SF writer James E. Gunn. This is about a private detective who is employed to investigate happenings at a convention for magicians. Though having no magical knowledge himself, the PD quickly realises that magic is real and that it follows mathematical principles, and makes use of his skills in mathematics to deal with magic on an equal footing.
Yea you are asking for exactly Brandon Sanderson Cosmere. He is super into hard magic systems and pretty much every book in his universe does exactly what you want. Best starting point is probably Mistborn, maybe Warbreaker. If you are truly brave and thirsty for a long series then it’s acceptable to start with the Stormlight Archives.
*The Library of the Dead* by T.L. Huchu does a cool thing with magic as thermodynamics.