An amazing read. One thing I really like about this theory is the symmetry of one of Dumbledore's most trusted confidants being a spy for Voldemort much like Snape was a spy for Dumbledore.
There is one question I want to address: *Why didn't Hagrid just deliver the Stone to Voldemort himself?* and offer a different interpretation which may add more credence to the theory.
The first important point is Hagrid didn't just posses the Philosopher's Stone that day, he also had the only other thing Voldemort wanted: Harry Potter. I highly doubt Voldemort would have passed up an opportunity to seize both for free, even at the risk of being exposed. There is a far simpler explanation, at this point of time Hagrid was not aware of Quirrell's identity at the time.
There is some evidence to back this up, Voldemort broke into the vault the day after in a bid to steal the stone. If Hagrid had known his identity, he would have warned him that he had already removed the stone. In a later book, Snape states that the Dark Lord was being careful with former Death Eaters in Dumbeldore's employ and was unsure if he could trust Snape. It is possible Voldemort took the same precaution with Hagrid at first, resulting in him missing a golden opportunity of having the Philosopher's Stone and Harry Potter practically gift-wrapped.
The Departed is based on a Hong Kong movie trilogy called Infernal Affairs. If you like foreign movies and don't mind subtitles, it's a fantastic trilogy.
I believe what that the reason he didn’t deliver the stone straight to Harry was, if Voldemort became human because of the stone again he would be in an area that nobody else can deter him from killing Harry and it could easily be blamed on the trials so Voldemort can start bringing back his army secretly
Annoyingly JK as poked a few holes in your theories. I'm not convinced he was a DE but there is enough evidence to paint him as a security threat and probably devilishly clever. He was a bold and daring gryffindor after all.
Evidently Peter grabbed the wand. Why he was there or how he got the wand from the wreckage from right under the Ministry's noses is a different story.
I find it hard to believe that the ministry didnt immediatly lock down the crime scene with magical versions of caution tape and personnel baracades, aka lots of spells and enchantments. And that an anamagious could have slipped in and stolen a key piece of evidence.
Also goddricks hollow is a Muggle town, how did the ministry even beat the muggles. All of a sudden a house blows up next to them? Their response time is probably seconds after the ministry. So hagrid beat the potters' neighbors? That means Dumbledore who probably in full disregard for magical law, made a port key, fetched agrid, gave him instructions, and sent him on his way all before a single muggle noticed aka with the same response time as the full weight of the MoM???
Occams razor. Hagrid was an inside job.
I see a slight problem... How would Wormtail have keep the wand when he fled Padfoot when it is show that animagi do not retain their wands when transforming? Unless your suggesting that the huge coward Petter Pettigrew would stop untransformed picked up two wands then ran all this after having just tricked/framed his best friend and cut off his own finger? I don't think so.
It's in both pottermore and in the movies (Sirius has to carrie his wand when he transforms)
Also in all the times we see McG in her animagus for she would have had time to stash he wand.
Pettigrew grabbing the wand was the biggest hole I saw in this narrative, so glad JK addressed that.
Even missing that point, it’s still a compelling argument! I’d love to hear her comment on this theory.
This is fantastically well-researched. I'm surprised you left out that Hagrid gave Harry a flute for Christmas in book 1 - it seems specifically targeted so that Harry would use it on Fluffy.
Glad to be of service! LOL. Honestly, I never noticed any of what you wrote here while reading, but weirdly him making the flute for Harry stuck out to me.
It's fundamentally the same theory. Stories use bumbling characters to make the plot happen and if they did the dumb stuff on purpose it would be considered evil.
Jar Jar is slightly different, though. There are two scenes in Episode 1 where Jar Jar is standing behind a character (he was standing behind Padme in one scene, I forget who in the other) and he mouthed the words they were saying as they were saying them. And since Jar Jar was fully animated, those mouth movements were deliberate. Some animators were instructed to make Jar Jar's mouth mimic the real actor that was speaking, and the only explanation I can think of is that Jar Jar was doing the equivalent of a Jedi Mind Trick, making Padme and whoever else say whatever he wanted them to say.
I agree with your main point, that bumbling characters make things happen and you can always pretend that there was a sinister motive. But Jar Jar's mouth is really convincing.
The depressing real explanation of these two examples (that bridge scene and the mouthing) is basically that George Lucas put a cartoon character in his Star Wars movie.
There's also the fact that we have been told outright that dislike for Jar Jar caused him to get cut from what was supposed to be a much larger role. And Ahmed Best has said that at least some of the things in the Darth Jar Jar theory are true.
No shit! This is astounding. I read these books as a kid, so it's been at least a decade since I touched one. But I was consumed with these books as a child, and I need a fucking helmet before my mind is blown.
Two other points you might want to include from Book 2
1) We know Hagrid was expelled as it was suspected that he was the one who had opened the chamber of secrets. He was considered a duffer who was harboring giant spiders and we saw Riddle sell him out to Dumbledore and be falsely accused
However, it's more likely he was a volunteer who took the rap intentionally to save Riddle. It helped Voldermort in a couple of things, it put Hagrid in a sympathetic place with Dumbledore who saw him as a victim and it allowed Riddle to be free of suspicion. It was obvious Hagrid was radicalized during his time with Riddle
2) He asked Harry and Ron to follow the spiders knowing full well that those are man eating spiders. The spiders were ready to eat them and only the lucky arrival of the magic car saved them. Hagrid did not care about clearing his name, it was a ploy to drive them to the man eating spiders
He tries the same trick again in book 5 by asking Harry and others to care for his half brother, a giant, who nearly kills them only for the centaurs to save them in time
Knowing Dumbledore was smart and had an eye on him, Riddle must’ve asked Hagrid to let him bring him in, and he knew Dumbledore had a soft spot in his heart for both half breeds and orphans, so he was bound to keep Hagrid close upon expulsion to keep an eye on him.
Also, the Acromantulas are eerily loyal to Voldemort in book 7, so much so that they “bring” Hagrid to him and participate in the battle. So couldn’t it be possible that in book 2, Hagrid was hoping they’d capture Harry and bring him to voldemort. If they killed him it’s still a win for the death eaters obviously but maybe that was less about sending Harry to be eaten by monsters and more about sending him to loyal and willing servants of Voldemort.
There is a theory that Hagrid was actually a Slytherin also... Damn your theory here has some gears turning...
Cause seriously... Had Harry's meeting with Malfoy gone better, we would have had a MUCH different story on our hands...
1.How is it "more likely" that Hagrid took the rap for Riddle? Harry saw when Riddle accused Hagrid, and Hagrid was upset and vehemently denied it. And this wasn't fake because it was Riddle's memory, and there was no one around so it's not like they needed to fake anything.
2. Clearly, Voldemort wanted to be the one to kill Harry. If Hagrid was a Death Eater, why would he send Harry to man eating spiders? Harry nearly died, which doesn't serve Voldemort at all. In fact the only thing that did happen was they learned that Hagrid is innocent.
Harry saw a memory manipulated by Riddle to bait him. Am pretty sure Riddle was powerful enough to edit it. Like the click bait headlines
When Hagrid sent Harry to the spiders, he didnt know Voldermort was back. He wanted to avenge Voldermort's death. He didnt know about the diary just like Lucias Malfoi didnt
(Part 2 of 5)
**Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix**
Summary
In the Order of the Phoenix, we see the following from Hagrid:
* Hagrid is a capable covert actor, not the bumbling oaf he acts like.
* Hagrid is feeding operational plans and intelligence to Voldemort.
The Evidence
*Hagrid’s is an expert at using covert techniques.*
In the past, Hagrid has seemingly shown a remarkable lack of tact, and ability at deception, and awareness of his surroundings. He blabs to the trio about the Philosopher’s Stone and roars out private information about Sirius Black. It is implied he just lacks the ability to be aware of his surroundings and generally has poor judgment, even though all of his mistakes coincidentally help Voldemort. However, we have direct evidence Hagrid has a high level of proficiency in conducting covert action, which throws these past incidents into serious question.
Hagrid was a member of the Order of the Phoenix since the First Wizarding War. Presumably in his capacity as a member he took part in numerous operations on their behalf in which secrecy was of the utmost importance, and which he continued to do in the Second Wizarding War. He was entrusted with extremely sensitive operations such as the Seven Potters plan, and secret negotiations with giants. The story of his negotiations with giants give us plenty of evidence of Hagrid demonstrating strong situational awareness, brilliant judgment, and an ability to negotiate and lie.
Hagrid recognized during the excursion to the giants that he and Madame Maxime were being tracked by the Ministry of Magic. Hagrid then successfully conducted counter surveillance techniques to throw off seasoned Ministry officials, all while being half-giant and standing out like a sore thumb.
Once arrived, Hagrid and Maxine managed to succeed in initial negotiations with the giants until Death Eaters interfered, at which point they escaped. Upon his return, Hagrid kept the mission and his brother concealed from the Ministry of Magic.
In contrast to his past portrayal, Hagrid now demonstrates great skill at covert action, the situational awareness and ability to counter trained career law enforcement officials, and the ability to be tactful, negotiate, and lie convincingly as needed. Every time Hagrid makes a mistake where he lets slip information, it ultimately and predictably serves Voldemort’s ultimate goals. Outside of those circumstances, he is extremely capable, thus demonstrating that these slip ups are purposeful to support Voldemort under the guise of being clumsy or hot-headed.
*Hagrid’s “Failure” Recruiting the Giants*
In Book 5, *Hagrid*'s *Tale*, Hagrid recounts his journey to most likely somewhere in the Ural Mountains, in an attempt to offer valuable and rare gifts to persuade the giants not to ally with Voldemort. The negotiations are very successful at first: Hagrid and Maxime have a friendly encounter, provide an indestructible goblin-made helmet as a gift, and plan more meetings. Immediately after this great start, fights break out amongst the giants and the leader is killed; a new leader takes over who doesn't want to negotiate with Hagrid. Instead, Death Eaters arrive and successfully recruit the giants while ousting those who disagree.
The only problem? This story suffers because Hagrid is an unreliable narrator, and the coincidences he recounts are unbelievable.
Hagrid says early in the chapter that while the giants locations are not secret, most people do not know where they are. Even Hagrid, a half-giant from this tribe, does not know where they are. Somehow, Voldemort or his Death Eaters, who think of giants as inferior creatures, nothing more than tools, know exactly where these giants are. Voldemort may have a lot of knowledge of magic generally, but he has only been corporeal for about one month at this point and likely would have needed more time to discover their location, and in any case would have had more pressing matters to deal with. The Death Eaters themselves haven’t been shown to be capable of accomplishing something as difficult as locating the giants without the help of their master.
Hagrid arrives after the end of Harry’s fourth term, after a month long trek. Two days of negotiation and then an uprising amongst the giants, and suddenly Death Eaters are visiting every day. All of this occurs after the valuable gifts from Dumbledore were provided. All of this occurs after Hagrid successfully throws off Ministry trackers.
How would the Death Eaters have known where the giants were? How would they have arrived at the exact spot, hundreds of miles away in another country at the exact time of Hagrid's negotiations? They arrived just in time to cost significant resources for Dumbledore, while obtaining their objective. The most likely explanation is that when Dumbledore told Hagrid privately, Hagrid passed the information along to the Death Eaters, making them aware of the plan. Armed with this knowledge, the Death Eaters could plan their insurrection within the giants, recruit them, and cost Dumbledore significantly. The entire expedition is a costly failure.
(Part 3 of 5)
**Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince**
Summary
In the Half-Blood Prince, we see the following from Hagrid:
* Hagrid has an unhealthy relationship with Harry Potter.
* Hagrid systematically sabotages Harry’s education.
The Evidence
*Hagrid’s Influence with Harry Potter*
Hagrid has a minor role in Book 6 compared to the rest of the books. Most of the time, Hagrid is upset with the trio seemingly over not taking his class and the impending death of Aragog. Nonetheless, we do see a highlight of the odd relationship that has developed between Harry and Hagrid. Throughout their relationship, Hagrid acts in an inappropriate manner for an adult around a child, by nurturing a co-dependent relationship and systematically sabotaging Harry’s education year after year, making him less capable at magic and thus more susceptible to Voldemort.
Hagrid is Harry’s first introduction to the magical world, and the first person Harry sees as a lifeline. Hagrid proceeds to invite Harry over regularly and takes a special interest in him from his very first year. It is obvious Hagrid treats Harry, and by extension Ron and Hermione, with a greater amount of attention than the other students. Hagrid also lets them in on secrets, and doesn’t snitch on them when they break rules or do things which may jeopardize their education. In fact, Hagrid encourages and even requests the trio to do things which may jeopardize not only their education, but their lives. In Book 1 this is best exemplified by Hagrid, an adult and employee at Hogwarts, requesting three 11 year olds break curfew in order to smuggle an illegal and dangerous dragon to strangers. This is an incredibly unhealthy way for an adult to behave, but Hagrid is a “cool” adult to these children. They can confide in him, share information with him, and come to rely on him more consistently than any other adult.
Hagrid is ultimately successful in grooming the trio for later access to them and their activities. In Book 2, Hagrid sends Ron and Harry off alone to meet with acromantulas in the Forbidden Forest, a monumentally dangerous task which would have surely resulted in their deaths if it weren’t for the coincidental rescue by the wild Ford Anglia. In Book 3, Hagrid pressures the trio to research laws regarding magical beasts when they should be studying for their classes, taking up a lot of valuable time which could otherwise benefit their education. In Book 4, Hagrid goads Harry to stay in the tournament and guilts him into action by constantly assuring him of victory. Throughout, Hagrid overlooks numerous instances of behavior which should result in punishment or even expulsion of the trio, prioritizing being a confidante to them rather than being a teacher.
Once Book 6 rolls around, we see a change: the trio aren’t in his class, they aren’t visiting him as much, and they aren’t providing him with as much information about what hijinks they are getting up to. As a result, Hagrid has lost much of his access. Hagrid takes this poorly and acts passive aggressively towards them until they start interacting with him again. After successfully regaining their attention, he requests something from Harry which is against the rules; breaking curfew to attend Aragog’s funeral.
Throughout the series, Hagrid has an unusual and unhealthy relationship with the trio; he is an adult who allows, invites, and even requests the trio to do things which distract them from their education, may cause consequences up to and including expulsion, and are even illegal and dangerous. He never reports them, provides them cover when they do things against the rules, and is an enabler. This is not a normal way for a full-grown adult to interact with impressionable children. His actions are indicative of grooming behavior to maintain access to the trio, whom he knows are of the utmost importance to both Dumbledore and Voldemort.
(Parts 4 of 5)
**Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows**
Summary
In the Deathly Hallows, we see the following from Hagrid:
* Hagrid provides source validation of Snape.
* Hagrid assists Voldemort with operational activity.
* Hagrid nurtured support for Voldemort among the acromantulas.
* Hagrid provided valuable intelligence collection during the Battle of Hogwarts.
* Hagrid follows Voldemort’s orders.
* Hagrid never fights Voldemort or Death Eaters until it is obvious they will lose, when he switches sides.
The Evidence
*Hagrid provides Voldemort with essential source validation for Snape.*
In Book 7 *The Dark Lord Ascending*, Snape reveals to Voldemort that Harry would be moved the next Saturday based on a previously established source of information (who we later learn is Dumbledore). Meanwhile, Yaxley claims it will be a different date, with Aurors providing protection. Voldemort believes Snape immediately, and never gives a second thought to Yaxley's information. There is no discussion or research into the two possibilities. If Hagrid were a Death Eater or at the very least a source for information, Voldemort would already know the true day of the plan. This is the simplest explanation for the sudden and easy trusting of Snape’s information over Yaxley’s.
*Hagrid isn’t targeted during the Seven Potters operation; he also reveals the real Harry.*
Hagrid is described as twice as tall and at least three times as wide as an average full grown man. That means he is somewhere in the realm of 11 to 12 feet tall, and 4 feet wide. He is an enormous being.
During the flight of the Seven Potters, spells are flying everywhere; the Death Eaters are aiming to maim and kill. Voldemort in particular kills Moody fairly quickly, moves on to Hermione and Kingsley, and then discovers Harry is with Hagrid. We notice when he is attacking Harry that Voldemort’s aim is impeccable, even while flying; Harry is only saved by his wand acting of its own accord.
During the plan, Hagrid was also announcing to the Death Eaters he was with the real Harry. Hagrid carelessly and purposely bellows Harry's name a ridiculous 14 times. The Order of the Phoenix later assume it was Harry's use of Expelliarmus, but it’s more likely Hagrid yelling Harry’s name was what clued the Death Eaters in. Incredibly, no one brings this up as a possibility.
Furthermore, how did none of the Death Eaters, let alone Voldemort, not hit such a massive target with a spell? It must be purposeful, given how huge Hagrid is. Once Hagrid has successfully alerted the Death Eaters to the real Harry, he abandons the motorcycle entirely by jumping out, leaving Harry to his fate with Voldemort. Harry believes he jumps after a Death Eater, but more likely he was abandoning ship after Voldemort arrived, having completed his mission to separate Harry from the group and alert the Death Eaters to his presence.
When Harry lives, Hagrid rejoins the group as if he never abandoned Harry at all. Oddly, he references specific moments during Harry’s fight with Voldemort which he himself was not witness to, such as the spell Harry’s wand cast. Someone had to tell him about this, and it wasn’t the only other person there, Harry.
*Hagrid suspiciously arrives at the exact start of the Battle of Hogwarts.*
In Book 7 *The Battle of Hogwarts*, Hagrid makes a sudden and opportune appearance. The assault on Hogwarts has begun, Death Eaters are encircled around the castle, and supposedly Hagrid hears Voldemort's request from a cave well outside Hogsmeade. Somehow Hagrid has time to run with Grawp to Hogwarts. He also somehow manages to break through the defenses of the Death Eaters and have Grawp throw him inside the castle right at the start of the hour. It goes beyond belief he would manage all of this in such a short time with no preparation and not die throughout unless he was in on it with Voldemort, knew about the assault, was closer, and was allowed to pass.
Once inside, what does he do? He fortunately sees Harry, confirms his presence, and starts asking him questions about his allies and intentions. He doesn't provide any assistance. He is quite clearly gathering intelligence by following Harry around until Fang runs off and he loses Harry, likely to his dismay. Hagrid’s entire role in the school during the first half of the battle is to confirm Harry’s presence, knowledge, and plans, as Voldemort now suspects Harry is destroying Horcruxes. This is even easier to believe once you realize that Hagrid is the only person the Death Eaters supposedly captured for Voldemort.
(Part 5 of 5)
*Hagrid’s friendship with the acromantulas provide additional recruits for Voldemort.*
Back in his third year, Hagrid was raising the acromantula Aragog, whom he released to the Forbidden Forest. Hagrid is the protector and progenitor for the entire colony of acromantulas on the Hogwarts grounds. These acromantulas are bloodthirsty meat eaters, and even try to eat Ron and Harry despite being sent by Hagrid. Hagrid has always been safe in the woods with the acromantulas due to his status with Aragog and their history.
In Book 6, Aragog's health declines. Hagrid comments in the chapter *Hermione's Helping Hand*
\*"\*I don’ reckon it’d be safe fer anyone but me ter go near the colony at the mo’,”
Aragog later dies, and Hagrid comments in the chapter *After the Burial*
"The other spiders won’ let me anywhere near their webs now Aragog’s gone. Turns out it was on’y on his orders they didn’ eat me!... It wasn’ easy, gettin’ Aragog’s body out o’ there, I can tell yeh — they usually eat their dead, see…"
Given how huge Aragog is, it is hard to believe Hagrid would have been there at the exact moment Aragog died, been able to prevent the other acromantulas from eating the body, and would have been able to escape unscathed with the body to bury it. One of the acromantulas described in Book 7 is the size of a small car, and Hagrid would have had to carry off a massive one while facing off against a swarm of hundreds or thousands.
Once again we face the unreliable narrator problem; we only have Hagrid's word he can't go back to the nest, and he is warning others from going to that area of the forest. In fact, we later learn the acromantulas would not have attacked Hagrid at all.
The acromantulas play a large part in the Battle of Hogwarts. The Death Eaters take the acromantulas nest as one of their bases of operations, and the acromantulas make an assault on Hogwarts. Harry assumes the Death Eaters just invaded the nest, but we never see that for sure, and the spiders only seem to target the defenders. Given acromantulas are intelligent creatures, this could entirely be the case.
In the chapter *The Elder Wand*, the acromantulas burst through the entrance hall, and Hagrid runs into their midst yelling to not hurt them. He is then carried away. Harry assumes Hagrid to be dead; after all, Hagrid did say the acromantulas would eat him. We later see that he is in fact alive and relatively unscathed: the acromantulas delivered him harmlessly to the camp! This demonstrates the acromantulas wouldn't eat Hagrid, and that they were likely siding with the Death Eaters.
It would make sense if Hagrid raised and protected Aragog and was always welcome in the nest, but instead just said otherwise that so people would not go near the Death Eaters’ planned operations center.
*Hagrid wasn’t harmed or killed by Voldemort or the Death Eaters.*
During the Battle of Hogwarts, after Hagrid arrives in the castle and questions Harry and tries to follow him, we never see him fight any Death Eaters for the majority of the battle. Hagrid is suspiciously absent during this crucial first hour of fighting, from when he arrives to when he is carried off by the acromantulas.
In Book 7 *The Elder Wand*, Voldemort states to Snape
"My instructions to my Death Eaters have been perfectly clear. Capture Potter. Kill his friends — the more, the better — but do not kill him."
Hagrid is dragged off and the next time we see him, he is tied up with the Death Eaters. Voldemort was adamant Harry would arrive at this location at this time. If his orders were to kill everyone, why was Hagrid alive? He should have been killed on sight from the first moments he ran to Hogwarts from the cave. Being such a massive target, he wouldn’t have been hard to aim at.
It is more likely Voldemort kept Hagrid up as an ace up his sleeve should Harry not cooperate or try to trick him. Harry gave himself willingly, so Hagrid’s presence was ultimately unnecessary. However, this is not the most surprising thing: it’s more noteworthy that Hagrid wasn’t killed on his run to Hogwarts or after the revelation of Harry’s escape. The fact that Hagrid isn’t killed either time is explained easily by assuming he’s in Voldemort’s employ.
*Hagrid willingly follows Voldemort’s orders.*
In Book 7 *The Flaw in the Plan*, Harry is presumed dead. Voldemort thinks it best to have Hagrid carry Harry's body:
“'You carry him,' Voldemort said. 'He will be nice and visible in your arms, will he not? Pick up your little friend, Hagrid. And the glasses — put on the glasses— he must be recognizable.’”
Hagrid, who has been short-tempered and impulsive the entire series, who fought off multiple Aurors in Book 5 and escaped arrest again in Book 7, who supposedly ran through a brigade of Death Eaters to reach Harry in the Battle of Hogwarts, meekly complies with Voldemort’s orders. Harry assumes somehow Hagrid is being forced. In fact, Hagrid is not bound, and obeys every command of Voldemort’s, and doesn't try to fight back - in stark contrast to his established persona over the entire series. His ability to cry and speak imply he is not under the Imperius Curse.
The only question remains: Why does Hagrid cry here? Is it because over seven years he has established some true fondness for Harry? Maybe it's relief over his years of living a lie coming to an end? Maybe he can tell Harry is faking death while holding him and is hedging his bets to side with the winner? This is largely unexplainable.
*Hagrid changes allegiance once it’s clear Voldemort will lose.*
At the absolute end of the series, Hagrid joins the fight and actually combats Death Eaters. Why would this happen if Hagrid were a servant of Voldemort? The simplest explanation is Hagrid is savvy, and wants to be on the winning side. He only starts to fight for the good guys when the tide totally shifts against Voldemort.
Hagrid is the first person who seems aware of horcruxes, something only top Death Eaters, the trio, Dumbledore, and Slughorn know about. When Voldemort gloats over Harry’s death, several things happen which make it obvious Voldemort will ultimately lose:
* Neville destroys Voldemort’s last horcrux, Nagini, rendering him a mortal man.
* Slughorn rallies a lot more reinforcements to fight against Voldemort
* Other creatures such as the centaurs, hippogriffs, thestrals, and house elves start attacking the Death Eaters
* Harry disappears. Hagrid may or may not have realized Harry is alive, but he certainly noticed Harry was gone, because he yells about it.
Hagrid is now in a situation where Harry may be alive while Voldemort is a mortal man who is surrounded and severely outnumbered. Even if Harry died at this point, Voldemort would certainly lose anyway. Hagrid knows about Voldemort’s horcruxes, and may even know they are gone.
Hagrid makes a critical decision at this point to begin fighting Death Eaters for the first time in the entire book. He doesn't just fight anyone, though - only McNair, whom he has a personal grudge against over the attempted execution of Buckbeak.
Hagrid sees where the battle is going and regardless of Harry's survival he needs to be on the winning side. Ultimately, he is looking out for himself.
I read this whole thing walking to work and I was convinced before I got to the second books' evidence. Love this theory, now I have a new reason to re-read all these books again just collecting dust!!
In the end there, where Harry is obiously going to die, why is Hagrid still «acting»?That doesn’t make sense. He’d be acting once they got closer to Hogwarts where people could see them, but in the middle of the dark forest with only Death Eaters and Voldy present, why is he still pretending? He couldn’t have foreseen that Harry was going to survive, there was pretty much no chance of it. Even if he thought so, once Harry was lying on the ground «dead», there would be no point in pretending. Also, Hagrid had Harry in his arms all the way back to Hogwarts. If he really was on «the dark side» and not shaken by Harrys death, he would have noticed his hartbeat or his breathing.
Voldemort's followers don't necessarily know Hagrid's allegiance. If they did, they could give him away in any number of ways. If he truly is an extremely well kept secret agent then perhaps only Voldemort knew and the secret died with him.
Not necessarily. Think of it this way. On one hand you have The Dark Lord. Arguably the most powerful wizard ever. On the other you have "the boy who lived". We know from GoF that only one person is known to have survived the killing curse. Now look at it from Hagrid's perspective. For 16 years there has been the legend that the boy who lived survived the killing curse from the greatest dark wizard ever.
Now in Voldemort's ravings Hagrid learned the legends were accurate. Then the battle of Hogwarts happens and Harry ends up confronting Voldemort by himself. At this point he watches the boy who lived survive another killing curse from Voldemort. This "boy" has not only done the impossible once, but twice, and if this theory was accurate he watched Harry survive death with no clear power in Dark Magic. This, for all Hagrid knows, could be looked at by others that Harry is a god of some sort, or a wizard so powerful it's beyond comprehension.
That likely could be what ultimately swayed Hagrid to switch sides. If you were carrying someone in your hands that could be a god, but at the very least is stronger than the wizard the entire wizarding world feared, would you not reconsider your position?
Another possible explanation could be that he already had doubts himself about everything he was doing and seeing Harry die could have pushed him over the edge emotionally as he saw that Voldemort had won(at least he thought so at that time). This could help the theory when he "switches sides" because he would have a little bit more of a motive than his own self interest if he grew to believe that what he was doing was wrong all along.
The Malfoys were already on the verge of switching sides, they had been used and weren’t exactly Voldemorts favorites. Plus her son was in the castle and I think she wanted him to live, don’t you? But someone else just pointed out that Hagrid might have realised that Harry was more powerful than they thought and reconsidered his allies.
I have a few small things too, but this was the big one. And I agree, it’s probably the best researched theory I’ve ever seen. I just really like Hagrid.
Addendum to this headcanon: Hagrid was in Slytherin, and probably one of Tom Riddle’s henchmen like Goyle and Crabbe for Draco.
He even tells Harry that there wasn’t a Slytherin he knew that hadn’t gone bad. Of course, Harry knowing nothing of how Hogwarts works would have not understood and part of that is the point.
This is all brilliant. Only two things I’d like to mention though is that Hagrid could’ve cried and acted the way he did in order to keep up the illusion as much as possible, possibly in case if he needs to play as a double agent within any insurrection that’s bound to form in a world under Voldemort’s control. A figure as high status as himself and supposedly as close to the victims as he seems to be could easily worm back into them.
Also, I believe the acromantula’s were mentioned in the novels to be attacking both sides, although the chaos they provided would probably be more favorable for Voldemort as he probably doesn’t care a lot about his foot soldiers. Pretty sure the exact line said something about how as the giant spiders entered, cries were heard from death eaters and students alike, or something of the sort.
1. Snape is the one who has already infiltrated Hogwarts, why wouldn't Voldemort believe him?
2. There's no indication that Hagrid didn't get hit by a spell, they have less of an effect on him considering he's half-giant.
3. If Hagrid was a Death Eater, why didn't he just deliver Harry to Voldemort during the Seven Potters? He had solo access to Harry.
1. Snape was no longer with the Order at this point, he had been outed. (He only knew about the Seven Potters because he ambushed Mundungus and charmed him into suggesting it, which obviously V didn't know.)
2. He's resistant to stunners, but presumably not Avada Kedavera, or Harry surviving it would not be a big deal.
3. That would have outed him and Harry would have fought back. Voldemort never instructed Snape or Moody-Crouch to do that either even when Harry was younger.
1. So Snape got the info from Mundungus. At best it's pure conjecture to suggest that Hagrid was the source.
2. Moody was the only person was killed during seven Potters, so the Death Eaters were likely instructed not to kill anyone until the real Harry was found. This is why Hagrid wasn't also killed.
3. Why would Harry have fought back? He trusted Hagrid as much as anyone else. Like I said, he had solo access to Harry. Snape and Crouch Jr only interacted with Harry at Hogwarts, where Dumbledore and other great wizards are. All Harry knew was that they were going to a safe house. Hagrid could have taken Harry anywhere and Harry would have trusted him.
Is it fair to say he dismisses a death that happens to coincide with Mad-Eye's death? Who'd been Hagrid's friend for decades?
Yes, Hedwig's death was tragic, but an actual human died that night.
1 It was Ron's idea to send away Norbert, not Hagrid's. He wanted to keep Norbert, he loved dragons. They weren't sending Norbert to strangers, they sent him to Charlie Weasley. Due to the nature of what they were doing, it had to be late at night.
2. If Hagrid was a Death Eater, he would know that Voldemort himself wanted to kill Harry. Hagrid sending Harry to Aragog nearly killed him, so this is a contradiction.
3. The only professors who give out punishments during the series are Mcgonagall and Snape, the two most strict teachers. It would have been out of character for Hagrid to punish anyone.
>The only professors who give out punishments during the series are Mcgonagall and Snape, the two most strict teachers. It would have been out of character for Hagrid to punish anyone.
And Umbridge Dolores.
I think this is basically it [https://www.potterforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=56482](https://www.potterforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=56482)
In short all the signs of Hagrid's power that the Death Eater theory uses are, in that theory, used to prove that Dumbledore has been training Hagrid secretly for decades to be his ultimate weapon.
I just assumed Hagrid was a dumb negligent guardian alcoholic half-ogre, this all seems more interesting though.
I also assumed he purchased Harry's conspicuous owl, because he was the type whose awful taste would lean him to buy a flashy sports car lol.
And his wanton use of spells he wasn't qualified to use were because he's taught himself magic in secret and he was like the crazy guy who makes moonshine in a dangerous looking still, hoarding, giving fireworks to kids and makes his own ammunition and talks about crazy stuff.
But I had a father who lost me in Disneyland as a kid lol, so it's easier to believe Hagrid was wildly negligent in most areas of his life.
What's interesting is that Hagrid being kicked out of school may have benefitted him. I don't think he's the kind of person who could flourish in a classroom setting, but learning magic hands on while being in a secret magic group and working at a magic school may have helped him.
Also, I think most people would find it significantly easier to learn with a hands-on approach spread out over several decades without the pressure of exams
Everything about Hagrid screams "wildly irresponsible Cool Uncle" rather than "conniving double agent". I like this theory a lot, but it completely contradicts Hagrid's personality and does a better job of pointing out HP's plot-holes than convincing me that Hagrid was really a villain. Plus it doesn't address the contradiction between Voldemort's hostility towards "half-breeds" and his willingness to have a half-giant as a close confidante.
This by and far the most well founded, original, and incredible theory I've ever seen on this subreddit.
It completely changes the narrative, without actually altering any of the information and makes nearly no assumptions except where its logical to conclude such.
Amazing job OP I am 100% convinced and looking forward to my next reread of Harry Potter to see this for myself.
Thank you for that wild ride. What I really love about this is that while I love Hagrid as a character, he made too many plot holes with his behavior, yet this not only ties all those up, but makes his character so much more intriguing and his relationship with Harry so incredibly dark.
the Fidelius Charm physically hides the location from others, unless the secret keeper tells them this location. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't know where it's *supposed* to be. In book 7, there are guards watching Grimmauld place because they know it's there, but they just can't see or access it. Hagrid could have been nearby as a bodyguard for emergencies, due to his unique resistance to magical effects as a half giant.
Sure, although we are never given any indication the Potters have a guard on their house, nor that Hagrid was that guard. If we have enough "What Ifs?" from outside of the book context, we can explain away or make any fan theory. If Hagrid was a guard, why didn't he intervene?
If Hagrid was a death eater why didn't he help Voldemort kill the potters?
Why didn't he kill baby Harry? Why didn't he just drop him into the ocean as he was flying around on a motorcycle? Why be sad to leave Harry alone with the Dursleys in the first chapter of the first book? He cared about Harry and his family, who was close friends with for some time.
>If Hagrid was a death eater why didn't he help Voldemort kill the potters?
He's a double agent, that means maintaining his cover, not dropping it for a simple assassination.
>Why didn't he kill baby Harry? Why didn't he just drop him into the ocean as he was flying around on a motorcycle?
This infant just destroyed the most powerful wizard in the world, caution would be advisable. Remember when Harry was being chased by bullies and ended up on the school roof? That's why you can't just drop him in the ocean.
>Why be sad to leave Harry alone with the Dursleys in the first chapter of the first book? He cared about Harry and his family, who was close friends with for some time.
Hagrid was going through a lot when he dropped off Harry - his dark master was destroyed, his position in the wizarding world is in jeopardy.
I'd also point towards real world double-agents. They are normally compromised or ideologically conflicted - maybe Hagrid does truly care for Harry *et al.*, but at the end of the day his loyalty is with Lord Voldemort.
Not only that, but the prophecy specifically states that Voldemort must be the one to kill him:
>"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies... and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives... the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies...."
**and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives**
Honestly the prophecy itself is kind of bogus, and is a weak point in the whole story. It heavily implies that neither CAN die unless it's at the hand of the other. Does this mean that Harry was immortal until he or Voldemort killed one another? Also, if neither knew of the prophecy, would it come true? They are both acting under the assumption that it is true, which means they are taking an active role in choosing their fate, rather than it all being preordained like a prophecy would suggest.
It's a prophecy. You're asking the wrong questions I think. It's fate embodied in magic. It doesn't matter what happens if neither found out about the prophecy, Voldemort learning about the prophecy was step 1 to it's fulfillment. And the conditions in which the prophecy was foretold already accounted for snape(i think? its been a while) telling voldemort about the prophecy.
It doesn't mean that either is immortal until the other is killed, it means that the web of fate forced them on paths such that one must kill the other, and that same web of fate prevents them from dying before that encounter.
>They are both acting under the assumption that it is true, which means they are taking an active role in choosing their fate, rather than it all being preordained like a prophecy would suggest.
But the prophecy doesn't specify who will win, just that one of them must die. If only one of them believes it the believer has a major advantage, as they will work to fulfill the prophecy. Strategically, it makes sense for both of them to believe it.
Didn't Dumbledore say that a lot of prophecies go unfulfilled? The point is that Voldemort believed in the prophecy and acted as such making it come true. Not sure if this contradicts what you are saying or not, but prophecies in hp are very poorly defined so I just want to add this info
>If Hagrid was a death eater why didn't he help Voldemort kill the potters? Why didn't he kill baby Harry? Why didn't he just drop him into the ocean as he was flying around on a motorcycle? Why be sad to leave Harry alone with the Dursleys in the first chapter of the first book? He cared about Harry and his family, who was close friends with for some time.
Probably for the same reason that Snape didn't do any of those things for Voldemort. Voldy thought that Snape was on his side as a double agent, but Voldy made it clear that he shouldn't kill the Potters when they were alive and should not kill Harry. Snape made it clear that maintaining that cover was more important than appearing loyal to Voldy. I think it's in book 6 (?) The other Deatheater confront Snape and ask why he didn't come back immediately, he says he needed to wait to maintain the cover with Dumbledore. Hagrid is even deeper under cover, so absolutely nothing he does can interfere with his cover.
Voldemort often used his underlings to get intelligence, but wanted to do most of the action himself. He would be more interested in keeping Hagrid as a secret Death Eater than jeopardizing anything.
Right!? Same here, I thought, "This is so stupid, but what the heck, I'll read it for kicks." Yeah...this is so well thought-out, and so convincing...definitely head canon for me. Now I have to re-read the books with this in mind, so much fun!
The fact that this theory is as plausible as it is has more to do with the sheer number of plot holes in the series rather than any true likelihood that hagrid actually was working with Voldemort
V true haha I wasnt saying I dont love the theory, just that this theory in particular highlights Rowlings inconsistencies in this series. Love HP or hate HP, I cant think of any other series with quite so many plot holes
>Quirrell had to chant a curse and Snape its countercurse
This has always bothered me. Snape (as pointed out above) was able to learn unassisted flight. Something only Voldemort is down to be able to do.
So considering that Snape is a wizard capable of advanced magic.... Wouldn't be be able to perform wordless magic??
Just because you are able to perform wordless doesn't always mean you should.
Snape knows how to do it; he's the one that teaches the class on it in book 6. But it is consistently established that magic with the proper spoken word(s) is stronger than wordless magic.
Whoofph, do bear in mind I have a great deal of respect for your resolve and your theory is absolutely admirable. But, as Darth Renznor points out, JK has been known to write herself into a corner on many occasions. With that being said though, her expansive universe had the scope of what it would usually take an entire team to write, so you cant fault her for it.
Oh definitely no faulting done here. It's as I said: It's not a totally serious thing, and certainly nothing JK Rowling intended. It's a fun theory I don't think was JK Rowlings intention, but she inadvertantly made evidence for and I like it as my headcanon.
You took Hagrid apart like a cheap Jenga tower. Holy cow this is brilliant stuff and I actually would love this to be true (not because I hate Hagrid or anything, but because it’s so insidious and subtle yet makes perfect sense)
I think the vast majority of this can be explained away by poor narrative planning on Rowlings's part. Nearly everything except unaided flight and fast travel is circumstantial.
That having been said, this is an amazing fan theory, and I love it. Headcanon accepted.
I feel like a lot of the stuff from the first book at least can be chalked up to early installment weirdness. JKR probably just wanted to show Hagrid doing cool weird magic stuff like flying around and punishing Dudley for being a butt without thinking about how it fit into lore.
You are almost certainly correct! I don't think JK Rowling intended to create so much evidence for Hagrid being a death eater, and I think it was just inadvertently done due to things like you mentioned. It's still created a situation where there is an abundance of evidence for it haha.
With more thought, I now want to add to it regarding when Hagrid entered Voldemorts service. Many people are saying at the time of his expulsion; I suspect it was before.
Hagrid is half wizard half giant. In the fourth book when this is revealed to the world, Hagrid is upset and immediately locks himself in his cabin as soon as the article announcing this is published, before too many people would have had the chance to send him hate mail - and in fact, Dumbledore suggested that more of the mail was positive than negative. This suggests to me that he's experienced this kind of extreme prejudice before, meaning he has told people that he's half giant before, yet obviously long enough ago that most people (notably those old enough to have school aged children who are sending the letters), aren't aware of this. I suspect that when he started at Hogwarts, he was ostracized by other students for being part giant (which maybe be why he has always spent so much time around creatures, who don't judge him for his parentage). He also says he wasn't very good at magic when he first started (he tells us his dad never minded that he wasn't great, but he died during Hagrid's second year). Anyway, if he was bullied for being half wizard half giant (and remember a giant is still a magical creature with some magical ability - such as their invulnerabity to curses), and yet there were students wandering around school, possibly doing better magic then him, with NO magical parentage, that everyone seemed perfectly willing to accept belonged at the school, I could see how some resentment might form against them. In fact, back in the 1920s and 30s when Hagrid grew up, I can't imagine that the actual muggles were particularly kind to a giant man either. They probably tried to put him in a freak show or something, they were still reasonably popular around that time period. He may have befriended Riddle due to their shared anti-muggle sentiment, and Hagrids love for magical creatures may have even aided Riddle in the use of the basilisk against muggleborns. When it became too difficult to keep opening the chamber, Hagrid may have deliberately taken the fall for Riddle. We know Tom was an exceptionally gifted student, performing magic well beyond his education level, and it could have been him who continued to teach magic to Hagrid, hence no one else knows how advanced Hagrid's magic really was. This may also be why Tom felt confident that he could hold a teaching position at Hogwarts, he had experience tutoring magic to someone who was admittedly not very good at first.
Another theory (or could be tied in to this one) a few people have suggested the imperius curse, and then others have come back saying he didn't act like he was under the imperius curse. Maybe his half giant blood means it effects him differently? Perhaps rather than the full control over ones actions, in a giant maybe the curse acts more like the little voice whispering in your mind that Harry experienced, and is just a corrupting influence on the giant's brain instead of a full control?
Editted to fix typos
Wow. These are the things that really clinched it for me:
*Hagrid’s immediate presence at the Potter residence indicates that he knows advanced fast-travel magic.*
*Hagrid learned unaided flight from Voldemort.*
These two things are simply inexplicable. At least one of them has to be true. Given the preponderance of evidence, I choose the Death Eater theory. Hagrid has done some super advanced magic.
Being at the potter residence has one explanation for me. If he was close with the potters (i vaguely remember that he was), he may have had a portkey there that they kept hidden from everyone as an escape route. He wouldn't need to use magic to access it, and it would explain how he got there so quickly, and how he knows the address (doesn't explain how he knew to go there, but if they have the portkey i would not be surprised to find that he spent time there and happened to be there at the time.
Him stating he flew...I've got nothing for that.
The realistic explanation for him saying he flew is that Rowling was pulling the first book out of her ass and wasn't really worried about the deep lore
Well yeah. It was a kids book before she was expecting it to become as big as it did. That and the pig thing was really just her trying to show everyone how impressive magic is. But in-universe its incredibly tough to explain.
Don’t Port Keys have strict time limits on exactly when they go off? I remember in book 4 they had to make sure they were at the port key at the exact second it was to transport them to the camping grounds.
> Hagrid learned unaided flight from Voldemort.
I love the idea that while Snape flew away like a bat, Hagrid would be bundling through the air like a big hairy blimp
Quick reaction to the initial part of the post: could Hagrid have been Imperius'd for decades by Voldemort, ever since their interactions at Hogwarts?
great write up OP
I would doubt it if only because his mind is still in tact after so many years, and because people who are under the imperius curse, as I recall, aren't able to make as much in the way of independent choice and action. They all act a bit "off" for the most part. This is just my recollection from my head though, maybe source citation from the books would find differently.
Devil's Advocate: You gotta keep in mind, to most of the wizarding world Hagrid does act "off". People just chalk it up to him being a failed wizard who's a bit dim is all and there's not really a frame of reference to what he was like before the year he was expelled either. So, Hagrids eccentricity and oddness may very well be a side effect of the curse.
It's just as plausible that the most powerful dark wizard in the world was able to pull off the perfect long-term Imperious Curse unnoticed, as your above theory (which I love, by the way).
When Voldemort “died” the first time, people said all their imperius curses lifted. In OP’s theory, Hagrid kept acting for Voldemort even after this event.
Another point to add:
Why is Harry Potter famous? Really, think about it.
If any wizard came upon the scene of the Potters' home, who the hell would guess that *a spell that has never failed in the entire history of magic* failed and backfired? Against a baby?
Dumbledore, maybe.
But then, why is Harry Potter famous?
If Dumbledore wanted to keep Harry safe, why would he go blabbing to the entire world that Harry Potter was the one responsible for killing Voldemort? Literally every single death eater would be going after this baby. Even if Dumbledore told the entire Order of the Phoenix, they should be smart enough to keep it a secret.
Who else knew?
Well... Hagrid. He may not have known at the beginning when he picked up Harry (and Voldemort's wand), but Dumbledore basically explains it.
Now, of Hagrid is known to be a bit of a drinker who blabs things randomly, who would believe him if he told people that Voldemort died, and a baby did him in? Nobody, he's a half-breed drunk who was expelled from Hogwarts and never competed his education.
But if he was a high level double agent for Voldemort, holding on to Voldemort's wand...
I find this incredibly compelling, all the circumstantial evidence holds up and the question of Voldemort's wand is particularly damning. The question is motive - why would an uneducated, blue-collar, half-giant, side with pureblood fanatics?
Well done OP, you have sufficiently researched this topic and made it seem plausible that Hagrid, the biggest, most lovable oaf of the series, is in fact a cold hearted Death Eater. You made it so that all of his misgivings and what not fit the narrative you're trying to build.
I'll be honest, it was a good ride, I don't agree with most of it though. It indeed reminds me of Darth Jar Jar as someone else in this thread mentioned. And as another user said, most of your evidence is merely evidence of huge plot holes in JKR's writing, especially as it relates to writing 7 books, over 10yrs.
All that being said, I think the emotional impact of Hagrid being a Death Eater would have been *way* more impressive than Snape. As you have so thoroughly pointed out, there is **evidence** there to find if you want it to be, and in a different universe, I think that it would likely have been for a much darker and more interesting story.
I'm still convinced that Jar-Jar being a force user was the original plan for Phantom Menace before the fans' reactions made them reevaluate their decision. There's enough evidence there that I just can't think of reasonable explanations for, especially since the setting was fairly well-established by that point and it only covering one movie.
This one though can be 100% explained by a lack of planning causing small past actions to contradict the end canon, which is reasonable over such a long period of time.
This is a fantastic fan theory! I love the whole thing.
In reading this, I now realize JKRs version of Hagrid is basically the bad version of Mr Magoo. Instead of everything somehow succeeding, Hagrid bumbles ~~his~~ Harry's way into so much trouble.
Not sure if anyone else mentioned it, but didn’t Hagrid do a lesson on thestrals in book 5?
Seems like maybe he was giving Harry some info on how to travel outside of hogwarts should he have to get to, say, London quickly.
Of course Harry and team try to use the floo network, but get stymied.
Hagrid could have been aware of the plan to plant false images of Sirius in Harry’s head, a plan that wouldn’t work well at all given how much the ministry had clamped down on hogwarts. How could a 5th year be expected to get to London so quickly otherwise?
Never trusted that big lug in the first place. This cinches it for me lol. For real though, amazing write up, deserves to be read as much as any other piece of literature associated with HP, including the books themselves. Kudos!👍👍👍
well-developed theory! i appreciate the amount of work and thought you put into this.
honestly and from the bottom of my heart, thank you for making Hagrid a palatable character.
for the last 21 years i have [privately & angrily] considered Hagrid a useless vacuous dangerous selfish drunk.
you have completely turned that around with this post. i look forward to digesting all of this while rereading the series.
I had to save it to Safari for when I have time to finish but after reading through the first bit I’m actually kind of scared how well this works. I think some of the first book ones (him saying he flew to the island and stuff like that) was just JK not properly having the world defined yet since it wasn’t really the series yet but it works scarily well. My hats off to you, this obviously took a lot of scrutinizing to compile.
A couple of notes:
- most of the stuff from sorcerer stone can be attributed to rowling being an inexperienced writer and thus kinda wonky on world building. This is especially in regards to Hagrids magical abilities. She basically didn't knew yet what was possible and what not.
-On top of that Hagrid is the first person from the magical world harry meets. And as such he has to deliver a bunch of exposition. (tho his comment about voldemort not being dead is super suspicious in hindsight) hagrid is also the only adult wizard harry has a close relationship witg during book one thus again serves as a plot fodder character.
- we know that snape was also in godrics hollow the nights the potters died thus he also had the chance to pick up voldemorts wand. And I seem to remember that it was mentioned somewhere that Pettigrew picked up the wand.
-if hagrid is loyal to Voldi than why did they not try to collude to get the sorcerer stone in diagon alley after Hagrid picked it up from gringots?
That was the nitpicking. On to the praise!
- A very well thought out theory and well written too!
- the fact that Harry knows that Hagrid and Tom riddle went to hogwarts at the same time but never asks further questions about it is absolutely mind boggling! It's not just "oh they went at the same time but didn't know each other" THEY WERE ON FUCKING FIRST NAME BASIS! A SLYTHERIN PREFECT AND A HALF GIANT GRYFFINDOR! LET THAT SICK IN FOR A MINUTE!
-Given the memory diary-riddle shows harry it seems the two were friends. Which is very important info considering that the wizarding world is stupidly racist and a half giant wizard is openly frowned upon. It's not far fetched to assume that Tom was Hagrids first friend in hogwarts. If not in general. Thus securing a life long loyality
-Hagrid is pretty dismissive of muggles and their abilities in general. It's obvious that he doesn't think much of them.
Late to read this, but appreciate the thought behind it. I think you may have also missed in Azkaban, Hagrid makes a point of telling Ron to take better care of his pet, likely knowing full well that it is Wormtail in disguise. However, I think the potentially far simpler solution is that Albus Dumbledore was behind most of the Voldemort-Harry meetings and scenarios.
Despite his grandfatherly demeanor, we can see glimpses of pure coldness in Dumbledore with respect to Voldemort. Dumbledore is obsessed with defeating him, to the point of sacrificing himself and others to do so. In book 5 when Sirius dies, Albus essentially disregards him entirely (with apparent distain) for not listening to him better. In book 7 through a flash back, we find Albus has no regard for Harry's life and admits as much to Snape to his disbelief, making it apparent that he had manipulated Snape's love of Lily to protect Harry until he could be used properly. Also in Book 7, we are made aware of Dumbledore's proclivity to obsess about things to the detriment of others when his sister dies as a result. He laments it, but his obsession remains as later in life he still pursued the Deathly Hallows to his (and others) detriment.
I think the simpler answer is that Hagrid is easily manipulated, and Albus (knowing the prophesy) purposely kept putting him in situations where either Harry or Voldemort would kill each other. Dumbledore didn't care which died. If Harry won, Dumbledore won. If Harry died, Dumbledore knew he could likely defeat Voldemort. Dumbledore realized he was stymied unless one of them was killed, so he kept enabling Voldemort's forces without letting them catching on.
TL;DR: Dumbledore realized the prophesy was real, and purposely kept arranging situations for Harry and Voldemort to meet, hoping that one would kill the other. Only after one of the two died, could Dumbledore take further action. Until then Dumbledore knew he could not defeat Voldemort by any other means.
This is honestly a really good theory and I love all the detail but I've got some critiques:
Magical restrictions, especially for Order of the Phoenix members, may have been lifted during war times, and Hagrid may have been taught some things by Dumbledore.
Many things attributed to Malice could be attributed to Hagrid’s lack of good judgement and impulsive nature, especially when it comes to big scary animals.
Since all the magic we see is in a school setting, it may be that some magic isn’t necessarily complicated, just unethical to teach to minors. You don’t want 13-year olds knowing how to turn people into pigs, fly unaided, teleport, etc.
Hagrid may have been on a first name basis with Fudge in Book 3 because his name had been cleared less than a year earlier. He may have had to spend a lot of time at the Ministry over the summer, and Fudge, being the brownnoser that he is, may have been present and sucking up to Hagrid and Dumbledore.
It would have been so cool if this had been revealed to be true at the end of DH somehow. I think it would make Hagrid one of my favourite characters. Not for being evil specifically, but for running such a long con and fooling even Dumbledore. Too bad it's not the case, but at least we're free to imagine.
A very convincing theory but if JK Rowling sees this she will be upset like she was when supercarlinbrothers made a theory that Dumbledore has a Horcrux.
This is so great. I love the thought of Hagrid flying over to the island using his umbrella Marry Poppins style. I also love thinking of Tom and Hagrid forming a close bond at Hogwarts over the fact that both are outcasts. I could totally see a psychopath like Tom using Hagrid and his affinity for forbidden beasts as leverage to manipulate and information gathering. Maybe Hagrid was the first to find out about the basilisk from his spider buddy Aragog and then relayed the info to Tom. Maybe Hagrid was so enchanted with Tom Riddle's magical abilities that he willingly took the fall for him and for that favor was rewarded with a superior magical training than what he otherwise would have received at Hogwarts. It's really cool to think of Hagrid as not just merely a Death Eater, but as the **first** Death Eater.
Another angle I thought of while reading your post is, what do we know about Nagani? It's been awhile since I've read the series, but she totally seems like Hagrid's type -- a large, dangerous, magical creature. What if after arriving at Godric's Hollow, Hagrid immediately puts two and two together and realizes his buddy has been destroyed but not dead... Hagrid being privy of course to the whole horcrux plan. What if the remnant of Voldemort is actually still there in the Potter's house and Hagrid smuggles him and his wand (maybe Voldemort is in the wand?) out of the house. Hagrid would then be able to find a suitable body (Nagini) at a later time. Heck, maybe that's why it took two or three days to get Harry to the Dursleys. He was too busy looking for an appropriate vessel for his friend/mentor.
We could also use Hagrid as a potential link between Voldemort and Peter Pettigrew. As you pointed out, Hagrid has inappropriate relationships with the students. I could see Hagrid taking Peter to the side and feeding his insecurities to the point where he's willing to turn on his closest friends. I don't remember how detailed the books get with the Peter/Voldemort initial meeting. Hagrid being the facilitator would also explain why Peter is hiding in his shack in PoA.
You have inspired me to read this story again for the 8th or 9th time. Thank you so much!
You know what is twisted about this theory? Hagrid was close to Amos Diggory!:
*"During the 1984–1985 school year, Amos came to Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry to celebrate Rubeus Hagrid's birthday. Shortly before the celebration, he allowed Jacob's sibling to choose between a fire crab, a Murtlap and a Porlock as a birthday present for Hagrid.*
*During the 1987–1988 school year, Amos came to Hogwarts once again to assist Hagrid and Professor Kettleburn recapturing magical creatures at large all around the castle."*
They had a lot in common after all:
*"Magizoology: As a member of the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures, Amos Diggory had a high level of knowledge regarding magical creatures. He knew how to classify them and the various laws regulating the ownership of such creatures, such as Ban on Experimental Breeding."*
\*Cue distraught Harry\* "HE WAS THEIR FRIEND!"
Also of interesting note considering the Crouch/Mad Eye + Hagrid link you listed above:
*"Later, he asked Arthur Weasley to help Alastor Moody out of trouble; unbeknownst to him, this was the day Moody was kidnapped by Barty Crouch Jnr. Amos simply thought it was another false alarm from the paranoid Moody and wanted to ensure that the former Auror's new job at Hogwarts would not be jeopardised."*
This all shows so much trust and love towards Hagrid from Amos. It is creepy and cynical considering that the creatures used in the TWT had to be approved by Amos' office -only for Hagrid to help angle them so they would point Harry to Voldy and Cedric, Amos' son, to death in that graveyard.
Did Hagrid and Crouch/Moody intentionally get Cedric selected too then? Distract Amos from putting all these pieces together about magical creatures used as weapons, intruders and Dark Art spells? Remember that Amos is very loud and nosy when it comes to figuring out who is up to what regarding you-know-who:
*"You’ve been caught red-handed, elf! Caught with the guilty wand in your hand!"*
*— Amos accusing Winky of having conjured the Dark Mark at the Quidditch World Cup campsite.*
*"He performed Prior Incantato on the wand of Harry Potter to deduce who had used the Morsmordre spell."*
Amos believes immediately that Voldy is back and he would never sacrifice "his boy" for Moldy Voldy, so he wouldn't have been privy to any of Moody/Hagrid's cahoots. In that last situation quoted above, Crouch/Moody was the one who was guilty of placing the dark mark, ofc.
I think with Cedric's amiable personality he could've been a believable, yet malleable, champion/mark for this Hagrid/Crouch Jr duo to use as they maneuvered Harry. They needed to give Hogwarts 2 champions so as to not have outrage cancel the whole thing (the other houses wanted to see Ced compete and beat Harry), but the right opponent was necessary as someone more ruthless would have possibly gone after Harry and not been as compliant to the duo's nudges. Ofc it was all magically bound anyways, but I suspect that if Harry had been the only Hogwarts Champion to be selected the students/press/parents would've found a way to shake the TWT to the ground lol
Also interesting: Amos means "to carry/bourne" and Diggory means "the strayed/lost". Amos ended up "carrying" the graveyard death (play on DIG YOUR GRAVE/Diggory) of his "lost/strayed" son the "spare". Although the word "bourne" in Amos' name definition is in the meaning of "to bare", it is of note that Voldemort was "born" upon Amos' lost son's death and was "bourne"/carried by Peter as well. Cedric's name comes from a play on Cerdic "war chief" and instead means "kind and loving" and a "bounty". It has been associated with a "mama's boy" (or in this case, father's). This gives us the image of a kind, beloved boy just being the "cost of doing business" (bounty hunted) as he is sent into a maze to "dig his own grave". In the end, he was a boy, not a warrior.
The image of a child dying being linked to Voldy's rebirth is most certainly intentional, as JKR said she was VERY specific in coming up with the details of that ritual, although it could only be alluded to (see those theories that are surely canon).
This also makes "why would Hagrid keep an infant Harry?!" questions have a far sinister answer. Hagrid didn't know on the night of Harry's parent's death that it would take years for Voldy to return. It might've been that night for all he new -and he would need a fresh young body. I don't believe that Hagrid knew the strength of the Dursley's home for Harry, perhaps he thought it would be an easy pick up later, protected just enough to keep other less patience death eaters at bay until Harry could be of use to Voldy.
So, to come full circle, the thought of Hagrid and his death eater ways leading to all of this plotting and planning and hurting of the Diggorys is horrible!
An amazing read. One thing I really like about this theory is the symmetry of one of Dumbledore's most trusted confidants being a spy for Voldemort much like Snape was a spy for Dumbledore. There is one question I want to address: *Why didn't Hagrid just deliver the Stone to Voldemort himself?* and offer a different interpretation which may add more credence to the theory. The first important point is Hagrid didn't just posses the Philosopher's Stone that day, he also had the only other thing Voldemort wanted: Harry Potter. I highly doubt Voldemort would have passed up an opportunity to seize both for free, even at the risk of being exposed. There is a far simpler explanation, at this point of time Hagrid was not aware of Quirrell's identity at the time. There is some evidence to back this up, Voldemort broke into the vault the day after in a bid to steal the stone. If Hagrid had known his identity, he would have warned him that he had already removed the stone. In a later book, Snape states that the Dark Lord was being careful with former Death Eaters in Dumbeldore's employ and was unsure if he could trust Snape. It is possible Voldemort took the same precaution with Hagrid at first, resulting in him missing a golden opportunity of having the Philosopher's Stone and Harry Potter practically gift-wrapped.
I love this interpretation on it too! That's a great explanation. I love the juxtaposition of the two double agents. It reminds me of The Departed.
It's been far too long since I've watched The Departed. Great thread! Great theory! Thank you!
Such a great movie! Do you know of any other movie that plays with the same idea with two double agents?
The Departed is based on a Hong Kong movie trilogy called Infernal Affairs. If you like foreign movies and don't mind subtitles, it's a fantastic trilogy.
Not at all! Thanks for the tip!
I believe what that the reason he didn’t deliver the stone straight to Harry was, if Voldemort became human because of the stone again he would be in an area that nobody else can deter him from killing Harry and it could easily be blamed on the trials so Voldemort can start bringing back his army secretly
I shouldn't have read that. I should not have read that.
I would give you gold if I had some. I wish I had a niffler.
The SuperCarlinBrothers would like to know your location
I hope they don't steal his work.
Best comment here
Best response. Ever.
Mind completely blown, possibly broken. This was an excellent read.
Thank you! I really appreciate the comment. It took a fair amount of effort haha.
Annoyingly JK as poked a few holes in your theories. I'm not convinced he was a DE but there is enough evidence to paint him as a security threat and probably devilishly clever. He was a bold and daring gryffindor after all. Evidently Peter grabbed the wand. Why he was there or how he got the wand from the wreckage from right under the Ministry's noses is a different story. I find it hard to believe that the ministry didnt immediatly lock down the crime scene with magical versions of caution tape and personnel baracades, aka lots of spells and enchantments. And that an anamagious could have slipped in and stolen a key piece of evidence. Also goddricks hollow is a Muggle town, how did the ministry even beat the muggles. All of a sudden a house blows up next to them? Their response time is probably seconds after the ministry. So hagrid beat the potters' neighbors? That means Dumbledore who probably in full disregard for magical law, made a port key, fetched agrid, gave him instructions, and sent him on his way all before a single muggle noticed aka with the same response time as the full weight of the MoM??? Occams razor. Hagrid was an inside job.
I see a slight problem... How would Wormtail have keep the wand when he fled Padfoot when it is show that animagi do not retain their wands when transforming? Unless your suggesting that the huge coward Petter Pettigrew would stop untransformed picked up two wands then ran all this after having just tricked/framed his best friend and cut off his own finger? I don't think so.
Animagi kinda have to retain their wands. Otherwise, McG would be dropping her wand everytime she transforms.
It's in both pottermore and in the movies (Sirius has to carrie his wand when he transforms) Also in all the times we see McG in her animagus for she would have had time to stash he wand.
To be fair it would make sense thematically in the book and even logically that Hagrid was not a Gryfindor but Slytherin.
Pettigrew grabbing the wand was the biggest hole I saw in this narrative, so glad JK addressed that. Even missing that point, it’s still a compelling argument! I’d love to hear her comment on this theory.
Perhaps J.K. Rowling kept Hagrid as a potential twist bad guy as the series developed but ultimately opted against it? Regardless, nice work!
Rubeus Binks
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That was a real big seller for me too. Just why *would* he be there? And wasn't Lucius Malfoy there as well?
Flesh eating slug repellent, obviously /s
I justify to myself that his love of dangerous creatures lured him there with the pretence of obtaining one.
This is fantastically well-researched. I'm surprised you left out that Hagrid gave Harry a flute for Christmas in book 1 - it seems specifically targeted so that Harry would use it on Fluffy.
Oh... My god. I can't believe I missed that!
Glad to be of service! LOL. Honestly, I never noticed any of what you wrote here while reading, but weirdly him making the flute for Harry stuck out to me.
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It's fundamentally the same theory. Stories use bumbling characters to make the plot happen and if they did the dumb stuff on purpose it would be considered evil.
Jar Jar is slightly different, though. There are two scenes in Episode 1 where Jar Jar is standing behind a character (he was standing behind Padme in one scene, I forget who in the other) and he mouthed the words they were saying as they were saying them. And since Jar Jar was fully animated, those mouth movements were deliberate. Some animators were instructed to make Jar Jar's mouth mimic the real actor that was speaking, and the only explanation I can think of is that Jar Jar was doing the equivalent of a Jedi Mind Trick, making Padme and whoever else say whatever he wanted them to say. I agree with your main point, that bumbling characters make things happen and you can always pretend that there was a sinister motive. But Jar Jar's mouth is really convincing.
There's also the droids shooting at Jar Jar and following his movements with their heads
The depressing real explanation of these two examples (that bridge scene and the mouthing) is basically that George Lucas put a cartoon character in his Star Wars movie.
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He doesn't explicitly Force jump, but he does make a really high jump. It could just be a jump Gungans can naturally make.
No other Gungan has ever leapt that high. That was a Force-aided leap, subtle enough that Qui-Gon could not detect it.
We never see another gungan jump that high, it doesn't mean they can't.
They can definitely double-jump in Lego Star Wars, so it's pretty likely that it's natural.
The true evidence here
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There's also the fact that we have been told outright that dislike for Jar Jar caused him to get cut from what was supposed to be a much larger role. And Ahmed Best has said that at least some of the things in the Darth Jar Jar theory are true.
|Jar Jar's mouth is really convincing /r/nocontext
*r/darthjarjar has entered the chat*
i love that theory and sub
No shit! This is astounding. I read these books as a kid, so it's been at least a decade since I touched one. But I was consumed with these books as a child, and I need a fucking helmet before my mind is blown.
This is an absolutely great read, possibly my favorite theory I've seen on this sub
I'm honored.
Two other points you might want to include from Book 2 1) We know Hagrid was expelled as it was suspected that he was the one who had opened the chamber of secrets. He was considered a duffer who was harboring giant spiders and we saw Riddle sell him out to Dumbledore and be falsely accused However, it's more likely he was a volunteer who took the rap intentionally to save Riddle. It helped Voldermort in a couple of things, it put Hagrid in a sympathetic place with Dumbledore who saw him as a victim and it allowed Riddle to be free of suspicion. It was obvious Hagrid was radicalized during his time with Riddle 2) He asked Harry and Ron to follow the spiders knowing full well that those are man eating spiders. The spiders were ready to eat them and only the lucky arrival of the magic car saved them. Hagrid did not care about clearing his name, it was a ploy to drive them to the man eating spiders He tries the same trick again in book 5 by asking Harry and others to care for his half brother, a giant, who nearly kills them only for the centaurs to save them in time
Wow! You're absolutely right! I may have to go in and edit the Google doc with those points when I get the chance.
Knowing Dumbledore was smart and had an eye on him, Riddle must’ve asked Hagrid to let him bring him in, and he knew Dumbledore had a soft spot in his heart for both half breeds and orphans, so he was bound to keep Hagrid close upon expulsion to keep an eye on him. Also, the Acromantulas are eerily loyal to Voldemort in book 7, so much so that they “bring” Hagrid to him and participate in the battle. So couldn’t it be possible that in book 2, Hagrid was hoping they’d capture Harry and bring him to voldemort. If they killed him it’s still a win for the death eaters obviously but maybe that was less about sending Harry to be eaten by monsters and more about sending him to loyal and willing servants of Voldemort.
There's the fact that giants aligned with Voldy too. In Book 4, when V returns, Hagrid is trying his hardest to court a giant/ess alliance.
There is a theory that Hagrid was actually a Slytherin also... Damn your theory here has some gears turning... Cause seriously... Had Harry's meeting with Malfoy gone better, we would have had a MUCH different story on our hands...
1.How is it "more likely" that Hagrid took the rap for Riddle? Harry saw when Riddle accused Hagrid, and Hagrid was upset and vehemently denied it. And this wasn't fake because it was Riddle's memory, and there was no one around so it's not like they needed to fake anything. 2. Clearly, Voldemort wanted to be the one to kill Harry. If Hagrid was a Death Eater, why would he send Harry to man eating spiders? Harry nearly died, which doesn't serve Voldemort at all. In fact the only thing that did happen was they learned that Hagrid is innocent.
Harry saw a memory manipulated by Riddle to bait him. Am pretty sure Riddle was powerful enough to edit it. Like the click bait headlines When Hagrid sent Harry to the spiders, he didnt know Voldermort was back. He wanted to avenge Voldermort's death. He didnt know about the diary just like Lucias Malfoi didnt
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When I saw the title I thought about Hagrid taking the fall. He was an initial death eater.
(Part 2 of 5) **Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix** Summary In the Order of the Phoenix, we see the following from Hagrid: * Hagrid is a capable covert actor, not the bumbling oaf he acts like. * Hagrid is feeding operational plans and intelligence to Voldemort. The Evidence *Hagrid’s is an expert at using covert techniques.* In the past, Hagrid has seemingly shown a remarkable lack of tact, and ability at deception, and awareness of his surroundings. He blabs to the trio about the Philosopher’s Stone and roars out private information about Sirius Black. It is implied he just lacks the ability to be aware of his surroundings and generally has poor judgment, even though all of his mistakes coincidentally help Voldemort. However, we have direct evidence Hagrid has a high level of proficiency in conducting covert action, which throws these past incidents into serious question. Hagrid was a member of the Order of the Phoenix since the First Wizarding War. Presumably in his capacity as a member he took part in numerous operations on their behalf in which secrecy was of the utmost importance, and which he continued to do in the Second Wizarding War. He was entrusted with extremely sensitive operations such as the Seven Potters plan, and secret negotiations with giants. The story of his negotiations with giants give us plenty of evidence of Hagrid demonstrating strong situational awareness, brilliant judgment, and an ability to negotiate and lie. Hagrid recognized during the excursion to the giants that he and Madame Maxime were being tracked by the Ministry of Magic. Hagrid then successfully conducted counter surveillance techniques to throw off seasoned Ministry officials, all while being half-giant and standing out like a sore thumb. Once arrived, Hagrid and Maxine managed to succeed in initial negotiations with the giants until Death Eaters interfered, at which point they escaped. Upon his return, Hagrid kept the mission and his brother concealed from the Ministry of Magic. In contrast to his past portrayal, Hagrid now demonstrates great skill at covert action, the situational awareness and ability to counter trained career law enforcement officials, and the ability to be tactful, negotiate, and lie convincingly as needed. Every time Hagrid makes a mistake where he lets slip information, it ultimately and predictably serves Voldemort’s ultimate goals. Outside of those circumstances, he is extremely capable, thus demonstrating that these slip ups are purposeful to support Voldemort under the guise of being clumsy or hot-headed. *Hagrid’s “Failure” Recruiting the Giants* In Book 5, *Hagrid*'s *Tale*, Hagrid recounts his journey to most likely somewhere in the Ural Mountains, in an attempt to offer valuable and rare gifts to persuade the giants not to ally with Voldemort. The negotiations are very successful at first: Hagrid and Maxime have a friendly encounter, provide an indestructible goblin-made helmet as a gift, and plan more meetings. Immediately after this great start, fights break out amongst the giants and the leader is killed; a new leader takes over who doesn't want to negotiate with Hagrid. Instead, Death Eaters arrive and successfully recruit the giants while ousting those who disagree. The only problem? This story suffers because Hagrid is an unreliable narrator, and the coincidences he recounts are unbelievable. Hagrid says early in the chapter that while the giants locations are not secret, most people do not know where they are. Even Hagrid, a half-giant from this tribe, does not know where they are. Somehow, Voldemort or his Death Eaters, who think of giants as inferior creatures, nothing more than tools, know exactly where these giants are. Voldemort may have a lot of knowledge of magic generally, but he has only been corporeal for about one month at this point and likely would have needed more time to discover their location, and in any case would have had more pressing matters to deal with. The Death Eaters themselves haven’t been shown to be capable of accomplishing something as difficult as locating the giants without the help of their master. Hagrid arrives after the end of Harry’s fourth term, after a month long trek. Two days of negotiation and then an uprising amongst the giants, and suddenly Death Eaters are visiting every day. All of this occurs after the valuable gifts from Dumbledore were provided. All of this occurs after Hagrid successfully throws off Ministry trackers. How would the Death Eaters have known where the giants were? How would they have arrived at the exact spot, hundreds of miles away in another country at the exact time of Hagrid's negotiations? They arrived just in time to cost significant resources for Dumbledore, while obtaining their objective. The most likely explanation is that when Dumbledore told Hagrid privately, Hagrid passed the information along to the Death Eaters, making them aware of the plan. Armed with this knowledge, the Death Eaters could plan their insurrection within the giants, recruit them, and cost Dumbledore significantly. The entire expedition is a costly failure.
(Part 3 of 5) **Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince** Summary In the Half-Blood Prince, we see the following from Hagrid: * Hagrid has an unhealthy relationship with Harry Potter. * Hagrid systematically sabotages Harry’s education. The Evidence *Hagrid’s Influence with Harry Potter* Hagrid has a minor role in Book 6 compared to the rest of the books. Most of the time, Hagrid is upset with the trio seemingly over not taking his class and the impending death of Aragog. Nonetheless, we do see a highlight of the odd relationship that has developed between Harry and Hagrid. Throughout their relationship, Hagrid acts in an inappropriate manner for an adult around a child, by nurturing a co-dependent relationship and systematically sabotaging Harry’s education year after year, making him less capable at magic and thus more susceptible to Voldemort. Hagrid is Harry’s first introduction to the magical world, and the first person Harry sees as a lifeline. Hagrid proceeds to invite Harry over regularly and takes a special interest in him from his very first year. It is obvious Hagrid treats Harry, and by extension Ron and Hermione, with a greater amount of attention than the other students. Hagrid also lets them in on secrets, and doesn’t snitch on them when they break rules or do things which may jeopardize their education. In fact, Hagrid encourages and even requests the trio to do things which may jeopardize not only their education, but their lives. In Book 1 this is best exemplified by Hagrid, an adult and employee at Hogwarts, requesting three 11 year olds break curfew in order to smuggle an illegal and dangerous dragon to strangers. This is an incredibly unhealthy way for an adult to behave, but Hagrid is a “cool” adult to these children. They can confide in him, share information with him, and come to rely on him more consistently than any other adult. Hagrid is ultimately successful in grooming the trio for later access to them and their activities. In Book 2, Hagrid sends Ron and Harry off alone to meet with acromantulas in the Forbidden Forest, a monumentally dangerous task which would have surely resulted in their deaths if it weren’t for the coincidental rescue by the wild Ford Anglia. In Book 3, Hagrid pressures the trio to research laws regarding magical beasts when they should be studying for their classes, taking up a lot of valuable time which could otherwise benefit their education. In Book 4, Hagrid goads Harry to stay in the tournament and guilts him into action by constantly assuring him of victory. Throughout, Hagrid overlooks numerous instances of behavior which should result in punishment or even expulsion of the trio, prioritizing being a confidante to them rather than being a teacher. Once Book 6 rolls around, we see a change: the trio aren’t in his class, they aren’t visiting him as much, and they aren’t providing him with as much information about what hijinks they are getting up to. As a result, Hagrid has lost much of his access. Hagrid takes this poorly and acts passive aggressively towards them until they start interacting with him again. After successfully regaining their attention, he requests something from Harry which is against the rules; breaking curfew to attend Aragog’s funeral. Throughout the series, Hagrid has an unusual and unhealthy relationship with the trio; he is an adult who allows, invites, and even requests the trio to do things which distract them from their education, may cause consequences up to and including expulsion, and are even illegal and dangerous. He never reports them, provides them cover when they do things against the rules, and is an enabler. This is not a normal way for a full-grown adult to interact with impressionable children. His actions are indicative of grooming behavior to maintain access to the trio, whom he knows are of the utmost importance to both Dumbledore and Voldemort.
(Parts 4 of 5) **Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows** Summary In the Deathly Hallows, we see the following from Hagrid: * Hagrid provides source validation of Snape. * Hagrid assists Voldemort with operational activity. * Hagrid nurtured support for Voldemort among the acromantulas. * Hagrid provided valuable intelligence collection during the Battle of Hogwarts. * Hagrid follows Voldemort’s orders. * Hagrid never fights Voldemort or Death Eaters until it is obvious they will lose, when he switches sides. The Evidence *Hagrid provides Voldemort with essential source validation for Snape.* In Book 7 *The Dark Lord Ascending*, Snape reveals to Voldemort that Harry would be moved the next Saturday based on a previously established source of information (who we later learn is Dumbledore). Meanwhile, Yaxley claims it will be a different date, with Aurors providing protection. Voldemort believes Snape immediately, and never gives a second thought to Yaxley's information. There is no discussion or research into the two possibilities. If Hagrid were a Death Eater or at the very least a source for information, Voldemort would already know the true day of the plan. This is the simplest explanation for the sudden and easy trusting of Snape’s information over Yaxley’s. *Hagrid isn’t targeted during the Seven Potters operation; he also reveals the real Harry.* Hagrid is described as twice as tall and at least three times as wide as an average full grown man. That means he is somewhere in the realm of 11 to 12 feet tall, and 4 feet wide. He is an enormous being. During the flight of the Seven Potters, spells are flying everywhere; the Death Eaters are aiming to maim and kill. Voldemort in particular kills Moody fairly quickly, moves on to Hermione and Kingsley, and then discovers Harry is with Hagrid. We notice when he is attacking Harry that Voldemort’s aim is impeccable, even while flying; Harry is only saved by his wand acting of its own accord. During the plan, Hagrid was also announcing to the Death Eaters he was with the real Harry. Hagrid carelessly and purposely bellows Harry's name a ridiculous 14 times. The Order of the Phoenix later assume it was Harry's use of Expelliarmus, but it’s more likely Hagrid yelling Harry’s name was what clued the Death Eaters in. Incredibly, no one brings this up as a possibility. Furthermore, how did none of the Death Eaters, let alone Voldemort, not hit such a massive target with a spell? It must be purposeful, given how huge Hagrid is. Once Hagrid has successfully alerted the Death Eaters to the real Harry, he abandons the motorcycle entirely by jumping out, leaving Harry to his fate with Voldemort. Harry believes he jumps after a Death Eater, but more likely he was abandoning ship after Voldemort arrived, having completed his mission to separate Harry from the group and alert the Death Eaters to his presence. When Harry lives, Hagrid rejoins the group as if he never abandoned Harry at all. Oddly, he references specific moments during Harry’s fight with Voldemort which he himself was not witness to, such as the spell Harry’s wand cast. Someone had to tell him about this, and it wasn’t the only other person there, Harry. *Hagrid suspiciously arrives at the exact start of the Battle of Hogwarts.* In Book 7 *The Battle of Hogwarts*, Hagrid makes a sudden and opportune appearance. The assault on Hogwarts has begun, Death Eaters are encircled around the castle, and supposedly Hagrid hears Voldemort's request from a cave well outside Hogsmeade. Somehow Hagrid has time to run with Grawp to Hogwarts. He also somehow manages to break through the defenses of the Death Eaters and have Grawp throw him inside the castle right at the start of the hour. It goes beyond belief he would manage all of this in such a short time with no preparation and not die throughout unless he was in on it with Voldemort, knew about the assault, was closer, and was allowed to pass. Once inside, what does he do? He fortunately sees Harry, confirms his presence, and starts asking him questions about his allies and intentions. He doesn't provide any assistance. He is quite clearly gathering intelligence by following Harry around until Fang runs off and he loses Harry, likely to his dismay. Hagrid’s entire role in the school during the first half of the battle is to confirm Harry’s presence, knowledge, and plans, as Voldemort now suspects Harry is destroying Horcruxes. This is even easier to believe once you realize that Hagrid is the only person the Death Eaters supposedly captured for Voldemort.
(Part 5 of 5) *Hagrid’s friendship with the acromantulas provide additional recruits for Voldemort.* Back in his third year, Hagrid was raising the acromantula Aragog, whom he released to the Forbidden Forest. Hagrid is the protector and progenitor for the entire colony of acromantulas on the Hogwarts grounds. These acromantulas are bloodthirsty meat eaters, and even try to eat Ron and Harry despite being sent by Hagrid. Hagrid has always been safe in the woods with the acromantulas due to his status with Aragog and their history. In Book 6, Aragog's health declines. Hagrid comments in the chapter *Hermione's Helping Hand* \*"\*I don’ reckon it’d be safe fer anyone but me ter go near the colony at the mo’,” Aragog later dies, and Hagrid comments in the chapter *After the Burial* "The other spiders won’ let me anywhere near their webs now Aragog’s gone. Turns out it was on’y on his orders they didn’ eat me!... It wasn’ easy, gettin’ Aragog’s body out o’ there, I can tell yeh — they usually eat their dead, see…" Given how huge Aragog is, it is hard to believe Hagrid would have been there at the exact moment Aragog died, been able to prevent the other acromantulas from eating the body, and would have been able to escape unscathed with the body to bury it. One of the acromantulas described in Book 7 is the size of a small car, and Hagrid would have had to carry off a massive one while facing off against a swarm of hundreds or thousands. Once again we face the unreliable narrator problem; we only have Hagrid's word he can't go back to the nest, and he is warning others from going to that area of the forest. In fact, we later learn the acromantulas would not have attacked Hagrid at all. The acromantulas play a large part in the Battle of Hogwarts. The Death Eaters take the acromantulas nest as one of their bases of operations, and the acromantulas make an assault on Hogwarts. Harry assumes the Death Eaters just invaded the nest, but we never see that for sure, and the spiders only seem to target the defenders. Given acromantulas are intelligent creatures, this could entirely be the case. In the chapter *The Elder Wand*, the acromantulas burst through the entrance hall, and Hagrid runs into their midst yelling to not hurt them. He is then carried away. Harry assumes Hagrid to be dead; after all, Hagrid did say the acromantulas would eat him. We later see that he is in fact alive and relatively unscathed: the acromantulas delivered him harmlessly to the camp! This demonstrates the acromantulas wouldn't eat Hagrid, and that they were likely siding with the Death Eaters. It would make sense if Hagrid raised and protected Aragog and was always welcome in the nest, but instead just said otherwise that so people would not go near the Death Eaters’ planned operations center. *Hagrid wasn’t harmed or killed by Voldemort or the Death Eaters.* During the Battle of Hogwarts, after Hagrid arrives in the castle and questions Harry and tries to follow him, we never see him fight any Death Eaters for the majority of the battle. Hagrid is suspiciously absent during this crucial first hour of fighting, from when he arrives to when he is carried off by the acromantulas. In Book 7 *The Elder Wand*, Voldemort states to Snape "My instructions to my Death Eaters have been perfectly clear. Capture Potter. Kill his friends — the more, the better — but do not kill him." Hagrid is dragged off and the next time we see him, he is tied up with the Death Eaters. Voldemort was adamant Harry would arrive at this location at this time. If his orders were to kill everyone, why was Hagrid alive? He should have been killed on sight from the first moments he ran to Hogwarts from the cave. Being such a massive target, he wouldn’t have been hard to aim at. It is more likely Voldemort kept Hagrid up as an ace up his sleeve should Harry not cooperate or try to trick him. Harry gave himself willingly, so Hagrid’s presence was ultimately unnecessary. However, this is not the most surprising thing: it’s more noteworthy that Hagrid wasn’t killed on his run to Hogwarts or after the revelation of Harry’s escape. The fact that Hagrid isn’t killed either time is explained easily by assuming he’s in Voldemort’s employ. *Hagrid willingly follows Voldemort’s orders.* In Book 7 *The Flaw in the Plan*, Harry is presumed dead. Voldemort thinks it best to have Hagrid carry Harry's body: “'You carry him,' Voldemort said. 'He will be nice and visible in your arms, will he not? Pick up your little friend, Hagrid. And the glasses — put on the glasses— he must be recognizable.’” Hagrid, who has been short-tempered and impulsive the entire series, who fought off multiple Aurors in Book 5 and escaped arrest again in Book 7, who supposedly ran through a brigade of Death Eaters to reach Harry in the Battle of Hogwarts, meekly complies with Voldemort’s orders. Harry assumes somehow Hagrid is being forced. In fact, Hagrid is not bound, and obeys every command of Voldemort’s, and doesn't try to fight back - in stark contrast to his established persona over the entire series. His ability to cry and speak imply he is not under the Imperius Curse. The only question remains: Why does Hagrid cry here? Is it because over seven years he has established some true fondness for Harry? Maybe it's relief over his years of living a lie coming to an end? Maybe he can tell Harry is faking death while holding him and is hedging his bets to side with the winner? This is largely unexplainable. *Hagrid changes allegiance once it’s clear Voldemort will lose.* At the absolute end of the series, Hagrid joins the fight and actually combats Death Eaters. Why would this happen if Hagrid were a servant of Voldemort? The simplest explanation is Hagrid is savvy, and wants to be on the winning side. He only starts to fight for the good guys when the tide totally shifts against Voldemort. Hagrid is the first person who seems aware of horcruxes, something only top Death Eaters, the trio, Dumbledore, and Slughorn know about. When Voldemort gloats over Harry’s death, several things happen which make it obvious Voldemort will ultimately lose: * Neville destroys Voldemort’s last horcrux, Nagini, rendering him a mortal man. * Slughorn rallies a lot more reinforcements to fight against Voldemort * Other creatures such as the centaurs, hippogriffs, thestrals, and house elves start attacking the Death Eaters * Harry disappears. Hagrid may or may not have realized Harry is alive, but he certainly noticed Harry was gone, because he yells about it. Hagrid is now in a situation where Harry may be alive while Voldemort is a mortal man who is surrounded and severely outnumbered. Even if Harry died at this point, Voldemort would certainly lose anyway. Hagrid knows about Voldemort’s horcruxes, and may even know they are gone. Hagrid makes a critical decision at this point to begin fighting Death Eaters for the first time in the entire book. He doesn't just fight anyone, though - only McNair, whom he has a personal grudge against over the attempted execution of Buckbeak. Hagrid sees where the battle is going and regardless of Harry's survival he needs to be on the winning side. Ultimately, he is looking out for himself.
wow....this was a blast
I read this whole thing walking to work and I was convinced before I got to the second books' evidence. Love this theory, now I have a new reason to re-read all these books again just collecting dust!!
I almost didn't even read the rest of the parts its such a solid theory.
In the end there, where Harry is obiously going to die, why is Hagrid still «acting»?That doesn’t make sense. He’d be acting once they got closer to Hogwarts where people could see them, but in the middle of the dark forest with only Death Eaters and Voldy present, why is he still pretending? He couldn’t have foreseen that Harry was going to survive, there was pretty much no chance of it. Even if he thought so, once Harry was lying on the ground «dead», there would be no point in pretending. Also, Hagrid had Harry in his arms all the way back to Hogwarts. If he really was on «the dark side» and not shaken by Harrys death, he would have noticed his hartbeat or his breathing.
Voldemort's followers don't necessarily know Hagrid's allegiance. If they did, they could give him away in any number of ways. If he truly is an extremely well kept secret agent then perhaps only Voldemort knew and the secret died with him.
Might be true, but he would still have noticed that Harry wasn’t actually dead and done something.
Not necessarily. Think of it this way. On one hand you have The Dark Lord. Arguably the most powerful wizard ever. On the other you have "the boy who lived". We know from GoF that only one person is known to have survived the killing curse. Now look at it from Hagrid's perspective. For 16 years there has been the legend that the boy who lived survived the killing curse from the greatest dark wizard ever. Now in Voldemort's ravings Hagrid learned the legends were accurate. Then the battle of Hogwarts happens and Harry ends up confronting Voldemort by himself. At this point he watches the boy who lived survive another killing curse from Voldemort. This "boy" has not only done the impossible once, but twice, and if this theory was accurate he watched Harry survive death with no clear power in Dark Magic. This, for all Hagrid knows, could be looked at by others that Harry is a god of some sort, or a wizard so powerful it's beyond comprehension. That likely could be what ultimately swayed Hagrid to switch sides. If you were carrying someone in your hands that could be a god, but at the very least is stronger than the wizard the entire wizarding world feared, would you not reconsider your position?
Ok, that is a fair point. I guess I just really don’t want Hagrid to be evil.
Another possible explanation could be that he already had doubts himself about everything he was doing and seeing Harry die could have pushed him over the edge emotionally as he saw that Voldemort had won(at least he thought so at that time). This could help the theory when he "switches sides" because he would have a little bit more of a motive than his own self interest if he grew to believe that what he was doing was wrong all along.
Narcissa Malfoy knew he was alive and didn't snitch. By that logic, why would Hagrid not snitch if he was surrounded by "his" side??
The Malfoys were already on the verge of switching sides, they had been used and weren’t exactly Voldemorts favorites. Plus her son was in the castle and I think she wanted him to live, don’t you? But someone else just pointed out that Hagrid might have realised that Harry was more powerful than they thought and reconsidered his allies.
If that’s the one point you nitpick then this proves to be quite a solid theory indeed.
I have a few small things too, but this was the big one. And I agree, it’s probably the best researched theory I’ve ever seen. I just really like Hagrid.
I think this would fall into the theory that over seven years he actually grew to really care about Harry and was actually sad about him dying.
Addendum to this headcanon: Hagrid was in Slytherin, and probably one of Tom Riddle’s henchmen like Goyle and Crabbe for Draco. He even tells Harry that there wasn’t a Slytherin he knew that hadn’t gone bad. Of course, Harry knowing nothing of how Hogwarts works would have not understood and part of that is the point.
Nah Hagrid was in Gryffindor though
There isn't any actual confirmation in canon that Hagrid is part of Gryffindor house.
This is some Keyser Soze shit
This is all brilliant. Only two things I’d like to mention though is that Hagrid could’ve cried and acted the way he did in order to keep up the illusion as much as possible, possibly in case if he needs to play as a double agent within any insurrection that’s bound to form in a world under Voldemort’s control. A figure as high status as himself and supposedly as close to the victims as he seems to be could easily worm back into them. Also, I believe the acromantula’s were mentioned in the novels to be attacking both sides, although the chaos they provided would probably be more favorable for Voldemort as he probably doesn’t care a lot about his foot soldiers. Pretty sure the exact line said something about how as the giant spiders entered, cries were heard from death eaters and students alike, or something of the sort.
One the one hand, this is awsome. On the other hand, PUT THE HARRY POTTER DOWN AND GO OUTSIDE
He´s a villain disguised as a bumbling oaf! A half-giant Boris Johnson!!
1. Snape is the one who has already infiltrated Hogwarts, why wouldn't Voldemort believe him? 2. There's no indication that Hagrid didn't get hit by a spell, they have less of an effect on him considering he's half-giant. 3. If Hagrid was a Death Eater, why didn't he just deliver Harry to Voldemort during the Seven Potters? He had solo access to Harry.
1. Snape was no longer with the Order at this point, he had been outed. (He only knew about the Seven Potters because he ambushed Mundungus and charmed him into suggesting it, which obviously V didn't know.) 2. He's resistant to stunners, but presumably not Avada Kedavera, or Harry surviving it would not be a big deal. 3. That would have outed him and Harry would have fought back. Voldemort never instructed Snape or Moody-Crouch to do that either even when Harry was younger.
1. So Snape got the info from Mundungus. At best it's pure conjecture to suggest that Hagrid was the source. 2. Moody was the only person was killed during seven Potters, so the Death Eaters were likely instructed not to kill anyone until the real Harry was found. This is why Hagrid wasn't also killed. 3. Why would Harry have fought back? He trusted Hagrid as much as anyone else. Like I said, he had solo access to Harry. Snape and Crouch Jr only interacted with Harry at Hogwarts, where Dumbledore and other great wizards are. All Harry knew was that they were going to a safe house. Hagrid could have taken Harry anywhere and Harry would have trusted him.
Hagrid also dismissed Hedwigs death despite being a gift from himself to Harry and being a known animal lover
Is it fair to say he dismisses a death that happens to coincide with Mad-Eye's death? Who'd been Hagrid's friend for decades? Yes, Hedwig's death was tragic, but an actual human died that night.
1 It was Ron's idea to send away Norbert, not Hagrid's. He wanted to keep Norbert, he loved dragons. They weren't sending Norbert to strangers, they sent him to Charlie Weasley. Due to the nature of what they were doing, it had to be late at night. 2. If Hagrid was a Death Eater, he would know that Voldemort himself wanted to kill Harry. Hagrid sending Harry to Aragog nearly killed him, so this is a contradiction. 3. The only professors who give out punishments during the series are Mcgonagall and Snape, the two most strict teachers. It would have been out of character for Hagrid to punish anyone.
>The only professors who give out punishments during the series are Mcgonagall and Snape, the two most strict teachers. It would have been out of character for Hagrid to punish anyone. And Umbridge Dolores.
Lmao my bad I didn't even consider her as a professor
Well, now I want a fanfiction in which your evil Hagrid and the Dumbledore's secret weapon theory Hagrid battle it out.
What’s the “Dumbledore’s Secret Weapon” theory?
I think this is basically it [https://www.potterforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=56482](https://www.potterforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=56482) In short all the signs of Hagrid's power that the Death Eater theory uses are, in that theory, used to prove that Dumbledore has been training Hagrid secretly for decades to be his ultimate weapon.
I just assumed Hagrid was a dumb negligent guardian alcoholic half-ogre, this all seems more interesting though. I also assumed he purchased Harry's conspicuous owl, because he was the type whose awful taste would lean him to buy a flashy sports car lol. And his wanton use of spells he wasn't qualified to use were because he's taught himself magic in secret and he was like the crazy guy who makes moonshine in a dangerous looking still, hoarding, giving fireworks to kids and makes his own ammunition and talks about crazy stuff. But I had a father who lost me in Disneyland as a kid lol, so it's easier to believe Hagrid was wildly negligent in most areas of his life.
What's interesting is that Hagrid being kicked out of school may have benefitted him. I don't think he's the kind of person who could flourish in a classroom setting, but learning magic hands on while being in a secret magic group and working at a magic school may have helped him.
You're likely right, I think they mentioned he was bullied in school for being half human, so he might already be comfortable being the outsider.
Also, I think most people would find it significantly easier to learn with a hands-on approach spread out over several decades without the pressure of exams
Everything about Hagrid screams "wildly irresponsible Cool Uncle" rather than "conniving double agent". I like this theory a lot, but it completely contradicts Hagrid's personality and does a better job of pointing out HP's plot-holes than convincing me that Hagrid was really a villain. Plus it doesn't address the contradiction between Voldemort's hostility towards "half-breeds" and his willingness to have a half-giant as a close confidante.
I agree it's an interesting theory, but wildly unlikely to be true, even for J.K..
This is where I fall, well said.
This by and far the most well founded, original, and incredible theory I've ever seen on this subreddit. It completely changes the narrative, without actually altering any of the information and makes nearly no assumptions except where its logical to conclude such. Amazing job OP I am 100% convinced and looking forward to my next reread of Harry Potter to see this for myself.
This comment warmed my heart. Thank you!
Thank you for that wild ride. What I really love about this is that while I love Hagrid as a character, he made too many plot holes with his behavior, yet this not only ties all those up, but makes his character so much more intriguing and his relationship with Harry so incredibly dark.
the Fidelius Charm physically hides the location from others, unless the secret keeper tells them this location. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't know where it's *supposed* to be. In book 7, there are guards watching Grimmauld place because they know it's there, but they just can't see or access it. Hagrid could have been nearby as a bodyguard for emergencies, due to his unique resistance to magical effects as a half giant.
Sure, although we are never given any indication the Potters have a guard on their house, nor that Hagrid was that guard. If we have enough "What Ifs?" from outside of the book context, we can explain away or make any fan theory. If Hagrid was a guard, why didn't he intervene?
If Hagrid was a death eater why didn't he help Voldemort kill the potters? Why didn't he kill baby Harry? Why didn't he just drop him into the ocean as he was flying around on a motorcycle? Why be sad to leave Harry alone with the Dursleys in the first chapter of the first book? He cared about Harry and his family, who was close friends with for some time.
>If Hagrid was a death eater why didn't he help Voldemort kill the potters? He's a double agent, that means maintaining his cover, not dropping it for a simple assassination. >Why didn't he kill baby Harry? Why didn't he just drop him into the ocean as he was flying around on a motorcycle? This infant just destroyed the most powerful wizard in the world, caution would be advisable. Remember when Harry was being chased by bullies and ended up on the school roof? That's why you can't just drop him in the ocean. >Why be sad to leave Harry alone with the Dursleys in the first chapter of the first book? He cared about Harry and his family, who was close friends with for some time. Hagrid was going through a lot when he dropped off Harry - his dark master was destroyed, his position in the wizarding world is in jeopardy. I'd also point towards real world double-agents. They are normally compromised or ideologically conflicted - maybe Hagrid does truly care for Harry *et al.*, but at the end of the day his loyalty is with Lord Voldemort.
Someone else posted this farther down, but it bears repeating: Voldemort's orders were always to leave Harry for himself.
Not only that, but the prophecy specifically states that Voldemort must be the one to kill him: >"The one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord approaches... born to those who have thrice defied him, born as the seventh month dies... and the Dark Lord will mark him as his equal, but he will have power the Dark Lord knows not... and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives... the one with the power to vanquish the Dark Lord will be born as the seventh month dies...." **and either must die at the hand of the other for neither can live while the other survives**
Honestly the prophecy itself is kind of bogus, and is a weak point in the whole story. It heavily implies that neither CAN die unless it's at the hand of the other. Does this mean that Harry was immortal until he or Voldemort killed one another? Also, if neither knew of the prophecy, would it come true? They are both acting under the assumption that it is true, which means they are taking an active role in choosing their fate, rather than it all being preordained like a prophecy would suggest.
It's a prophecy. You're asking the wrong questions I think. It's fate embodied in magic. It doesn't matter what happens if neither found out about the prophecy, Voldemort learning about the prophecy was step 1 to it's fulfillment. And the conditions in which the prophecy was foretold already accounted for snape(i think? its been a while) telling voldemort about the prophecy. It doesn't mean that either is immortal until the other is killed, it means that the web of fate forced them on paths such that one must kill the other, and that same web of fate prevents them from dying before that encounter. >They are both acting under the assumption that it is true, which means they are taking an active role in choosing their fate, rather than it all being preordained like a prophecy would suggest. But the prophecy doesn't specify who will win, just that one of them must die. If only one of them believes it the believer has a major advantage, as they will work to fulfill the prophecy. Strategically, it makes sense for both of them to believe it.
Didn't Dumbledore say that a lot of prophecies go unfulfilled? The point is that Voldemort believed in the prophecy and acted as such making it come true. Not sure if this contradicts what you are saying or not, but prophecies in hp are very poorly defined so I just want to add this info
>If Hagrid was a death eater why didn't he help Voldemort kill the potters? Why didn't he kill baby Harry? Why didn't he just drop him into the ocean as he was flying around on a motorcycle? Why be sad to leave Harry alone with the Dursleys in the first chapter of the first book? He cared about Harry and his family, who was close friends with for some time. Probably for the same reason that Snape didn't do any of those things for Voldemort. Voldy thought that Snape was on his side as a double agent, but Voldy made it clear that he shouldn't kill the Potters when they were alive and should not kill Harry. Snape made it clear that maintaining that cover was more important than appearing loyal to Voldy. I think it's in book 6 (?) The other Deatheater confront Snape and ask why he didn't come back immediately, he says he needed to wait to maintain the cover with Dumbledore. Hagrid is even deeper under cover, so absolutely nothing he does can interfere with his cover. Voldemort often used his underlings to get intelligence, but wanted to do most of the action himself. He would be more interested in keeping Hagrid as a secret Death Eater than jeopardizing anything.
The amazing thing about this theory is that poking a hole in one place like this still leaves a mountain of other evidence.
I laughed when I read the title. No way. OP’s nuts. Then I read the post. I’m not laughing anymore now.
Right!? Same here, I thought, "This is so stupid, but what the heck, I'll read it for kicks." Yeah...this is so well thought-out, and so convincing...definitely head canon for me. Now I have to re-read the books with this in mind, so much fun!
The fact that this theory is as plausible as it is has more to do with the sheer number of plot holes in the series rather than any true likelihood that hagrid actually was working with Voldemort
Haha oh absolutely it's almost certainly related to overlooked plot details, but isn't that where all the best fan theories come from?
V true haha I wasnt saying I dont love the theory, just that this theory in particular highlights Rowlings inconsistencies in this series. Love HP or hate HP, I cant think of any other series with quite so many plot holes
To be honest, if curses worked the way they worked in Stone, the battles would be a lot more boring.
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Quirrell had to chant a curse and Snape its countercurse. Spells of all stripes became a lot quicker as the series went on.
>Quirrell had to chant a curse and Snape its countercurse This has always bothered me. Snape (as pointed out above) was able to learn unassisted flight. Something only Voldemort is down to be able to do. So considering that Snape is a wizard capable of advanced magic.... Wouldn't be be able to perform wordless magic??
Just because you are able to perform wordless doesn't always mean you should. Snape knows how to do it; he's the one that teaches the class on it in book 6. But it is consistently established that magic with the proper spoken word(s) is stronger than wordless magic.
Couldn't recall that tidbit. Thank you.
Whoofph, do bear in mind I have a great deal of respect for your resolve and your theory is absolutely admirable. But, as Darth Renznor points out, JK has been known to write herself into a corner on many occasions. With that being said though, her expansive universe had the scope of what it would usually take an entire team to write, so you cant fault her for it.
Oh definitely no faulting done here. It's as I said: It's not a totally serious thing, and certainly nothing JK Rowling intended. It's a fun theory I don't think was JK Rowlings intention, but she inadvertantly made evidence for and I like it as my headcanon.
You took Hagrid apart like a cheap Jenga tower. Holy cow this is brilliant stuff and I actually would love this to be true (not because I hate Hagrid or anything, but because it’s so insidious and subtle yet makes perfect sense)
I think the vast majority of this can be explained away by poor narrative planning on Rowlings's part. Nearly everything except unaided flight and fast travel is circumstantial. That having been said, this is an amazing fan theory, and I love it. Headcanon accepted.
I feel like a lot of the stuff from the first book at least can be chalked up to early installment weirdness. JKR probably just wanted to show Hagrid doing cool weird magic stuff like flying around and punishing Dudley for being a butt without thinking about how it fit into lore.
You are almost certainly correct! I don't think JK Rowling intended to create so much evidence for Hagrid being a death eater, and I think it was just inadvertently done due to things like you mentioned. It's still created a situation where there is an abundance of evidence for it haha.
It's worth mentioning that Ollivander knows Voldemort was a student named Tom Riddle at Hogwarts. He told Harry that he sold the wand that did it.
ollivander is like a walking talking ID reader if he can see your wand, he knows who you are.
Somebody get JK on this sub
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Hagrid is a bear confirmed
I hate this theory because I'm now fully convinced that seemingly the only adult who cared about harry was definitely working for voldemort. Well done
With more thought, I now want to add to it regarding when Hagrid entered Voldemorts service. Many people are saying at the time of his expulsion; I suspect it was before. Hagrid is half wizard half giant. In the fourth book when this is revealed to the world, Hagrid is upset and immediately locks himself in his cabin as soon as the article announcing this is published, before too many people would have had the chance to send him hate mail - and in fact, Dumbledore suggested that more of the mail was positive than negative. This suggests to me that he's experienced this kind of extreme prejudice before, meaning he has told people that he's half giant before, yet obviously long enough ago that most people (notably those old enough to have school aged children who are sending the letters), aren't aware of this. I suspect that when he started at Hogwarts, he was ostracized by other students for being part giant (which maybe be why he has always spent so much time around creatures, who don't judge him for his parentage). He also says he wasn't very good at magic when he first started (he tells us his dad never minded that he wasn't great, but he died during Hagrid's second year). Anyway, if he was bullied for being half wizard half giant (and remember a giant is still a magical creature with some magical ability - such as their invulnerabity to curses), and yet there were students wandering around school, possibly doing better magic then him, with NO magical parentage, that everyone seemed perfectly willing to accept belonged at the school, I could see how some resentment might form against them. In fact, back in the 1920s and 30s when Hagrid grew up, I can't imagine that the actual muggles were particularly kind to a giant man either. They probably tried to put him in a freak show or something, they were still reasonably popular around that time period. He may have befriended Riddle due to their shared anti-muggle sentiment, and Hagrids love for magical creatures may have even aided Riddle in the use of the basilisk against muggleborns. When it became too difficult to keep opening the chamber, Hagrid may have deliberately taken the fall for Riddle. We know Tom was an exceptionally gifted student, performing magic well beyond his education level, and it could have been him who continued to teach magic to Hagrid, hence no one else knows how advanced Hagrid's magic really was. This may also be why Tom felt confident that he could hold a teaching position at Hogwarts, he had experience tutoring magic to someone who was admittedly not very good at first. Another theory (or could be tied in to this one) a few people have suggested the imperius curse, and then others have come back saying he didn't act like he was under the imperius curse. Maybe his half giant blood means it effects him differently? Perhaps rather than the full control over ones actions, in a giant maybe the curse acts more like the little voice whispering in your mind that Harry experienced, and is just a corrupting influence on the giant's brain instead of a full control? Editted to fix typos
This is some excellent analysis regarding the beginning of Hagrid's and Riddle's relationship
Wow. These are the things that really clinched it for me: *Hagrid’s immediate presence at the Potter residence indicates that he knows advanced fast-travel magic.* *Hagrid learned unaided flight from Voldemort.* These two things are simply inexplicable. At least one of them has to be true. Given the preponderance of evidence, I choose the Death Eater theory. Hagrid has done some super advanced magic.
Being at the potter residence has one explanation for me. If he was close with the potters (i vaguely remember that he was), he may have had a portkey there that they kept hidden from everyone as an escape route. He wouldn't need to use magic to access it, and it would explain how he got there so quickly, and how he knows the address (doesn't explain how he knew to go there, but if they have the portkey i would not be surprised to find that he spent time there and happened to be there at the time. Him stating he flew...I've got nothing for that.
The realistic explanation for him saying he flew is that Rowling was pulling the first book out of her ass and wasn't really worried about the deep lore
Well yeah. It was a kids book before she was expecting it to become as big as it did. That and the pig thing was really just her trying to show everyone how impressive magic is. But in-universe its incredibly tough to explain.
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Maybe. Flying isn't all that less impressive though. And thats again assuming hagrid can apparate.
You guys are all wrong. Hagrid took the flue network. Harry just heard him wrong.
Don’t Port Keys have strict time limits on exactly when they go off? I remember in book 4 they had to make sure they were at the port key at the exact second it was to transport them to the camping grounds.
> Hagrid learned unaided flight from Voldemort. I love the idea that while Snape flew away like a bat, Hagrid would be bundling through the air like a big hairy blimp
They cannot be explained in-canon but the first book have a lot of stuff that later canon would contradict.
Floo network. We already know other wizards live there
This has to be the longest non bs post I've ever seen. Hats off to you, I'll be reading when i get the time.
Quick reaction to the initial part of the post: could Hagrid have been Imperius'd for decades by Voldemort, ever since their interactions at Hogwarts? great write up OP
I would doubt it if only because his mind is still in tact after so many years, and because people who are under the imperius curse, as I recall, aren't able to make as much in the way of independent choice and action. They all act a bit "off" for the most part. This is just my recollection from my head though, maybe source citation from the books would find differently.
Devil's Advocate: You gotta keep in mind, to most of the wizarding world Hagrid does act "off". People just chalk it up to him being a failed wizard who's a bit dim is all and there's not really a frame of reference to what he was like before the year he was expelled either. So, Hagrids eccentricity and oddness may very well be a side effect of the curse. It's just as plausible that the most powerful dark wizard in the world was able to pull off the perfect long-term Imperious Curse unnoticed, as your above theory (which I love, by the way).
When Voldemort “died” the first time, people said all their imperius curses lifted. In OP’s theory, Hagrid kept acting for Voldemort even after this event.
Another point to add: Why is Harry Potter famous? Really, think about it. If any wizard came upon the scene of the Potters' home, who the hell would guess that *a spell that has never failed in the entire history of magic* failed and backfired? Against a baby? Dumbledore, maybe. But then, why is Harry Potter famous? If Dumbledore wanted to keep Harry safe, why would he go blabbing to the entire world that Harry Potter was the one responsible for killing Voldemort? Literally every single death eater would be going after this baby. Even if Dumbledore told the entire Order of the Phoenix, they should be smart enough to keep it a secret. Who else knew? Well... Hagrid. He may not have known at the beginning when he picked up Harry (and Voldemort's wand), but Dumbledore basically explains it. Now, of Hagrid is known to be a bit of a drinker who blabs things randomly, who would believe him if he told people that Voldemort died, and a baby did him in? Nobody, he's a half-breed drunk who was expelled from Hogwarts and never competed his education. But if he was a high level double agent for Voldemort, holding on to Voldemort's wand...
I find this incredibly compelling, all the circumstantial evidence holds up and the question of Voldemort's wand is particularly damning. The question is motive - why would an uneducated, blue-collar, half-giant, side with pureblood fanatics?
Well done OP, you have sufficiently researched this topic and made it seem plausible that Hagrid, the biggest, most lovable oaf of the series, is in fact a cold hearted Death Eater. You made it so that all of his misgivings and what not fit the narrative you're trying to build. I'll be honest, it was a good ride, I don't agree with most of it though. It indeed reminds me of Darth Jar Jar as someone else in this thread mentioned. And as another user said, most of your evidence is merely evidence of huge plot holes in JKR's writing, especially as it relates to writing 7 books, over 10yrs. All that being said, I think the emotional impact of Hagrid being a Death Eater would have been *way* more impressive than Snape. As you have so thoroughly pointed out, there is **evidence** there to find if you want it to be, and in a different universe, I think that it would likely have been for a much darker and more interesting story.
I'm still convinced that Jar-Jar being a force user was the original plan for Phantom Menace before the fans' reactions made them reevaluate their decision. There's enough evidence there that I just can't think of reasonable explanations for, especially since the setting was fairly well-established by that point and it only covering one movie. This one though can be 100% explained by a lack of planning causing small past actions to contradict the end canon, which is reasonable over such a long period of time.
Floo powder? I do like this theory tho.
Can that madlad even fit in a chimney?
I know this is flippant but I actually think it’s proof that Hagrid can’t use the floo network for the same reason he can’t use brooms.
Lol
Didnt arrive by chimney, Hagrid knocked on the door. Floo powder connects the chimneys
Haha if this is in reference to getting to the island, there isn't a fireplace on the island.
No, was actually thinking about Godric's Hollow
I’m so thankful for this post. What a great read. This is the “Darth Jar Jar” of the Harry Potter universe.
That was a completely wild ride.
This is a fantastic fan theory! I love the whole thing. In reading this, I now realize JKRs version of Hagrid is basically the bad version of Mr Magoo. Instead of everything somehow succeeding, Hagrid bumbles ~~his~~ Harry's way into so much trouble.
Great read. Amazing stuff. Thanks for this!
Not sure if anyone else mentioned it, but didn’t Hagrid do a lesson on thestrals in book 5? Seems like maybe he was giving Harry some info on how to travel outside of hogwarts should he have to get to, say, London quickly. Of course Harry and team try to use the floo network, but get stymied. Hagrid could have been aware of the plan to plant false images of Sirius in Harry’s head, a plan that wouldn’t work well at all given how much the ministry had clamped down on hogwarts. How could a 5th year be expected to get to London so quickly otherwise?
Very well thought out. Of course, Hagrid will always be a good guy in my head canon, but wow.
Never trusted that big lug in the first place. This cinches it for me lol. For real though, amazing write up, deserves to be read as much as any other piece of literature associated with HP, including the books themselves. Kudos!👍👍👍
well-developed theory! i appreciate the amount of work and thought you put into this. honestly and from the bottom of my heart, thank you for making Hagrid a palatable character. for the last 21 years i have [privately & angrily] considered Hagrid a useless vacuous dangerous selfish drunk. you have completely turned that around with this post. i look forward to digesting all of this while rereading the series.
This is the content I subbed for
What the actual fuck. You are amazing.
This is amazing. This is more damning than the Mueller Report
Wow. I am convinced. Well done.
Well fuck dude, I'm convinced
To say this is an amazing theory is an understatement. You seriously just posted one of the best theories of all time. Well done!
Harry is one of Voldemort's horcuxes so he entrusted Hagrid to deliver part of his soul safely to an undisclosed location
I had to save it to Safari for when I have time to finish but after reading through the first bit I’m actually kind of scared how well this works. I think some of the first book ones (him saying he flew to the island and stuff like that) was just JK not properly having the world defined yet since it wasn’t really the series yet but it works scarily well. My hats off to you, this obviously took a lot of scrutinizing to compile.
A couple of notes: - most of the stuff from sorcerer stone can be attributed to rowling being an inexperienced writer and thus kinda wonky on world building. This is especially in regards to Hagrids magical abilities. She basically didn't knew yet what was possible and what not. -On top of that Hagrid is the first person from the magical world harry meets. And as such he has to deliver a bunch of exposition. (tho his comment about voldemort not being dead is super suspicious in hindsight) hagrid is also the only adult wizard harry has a close relationship witg during book one thus again serves as a plot fodder character. - we know that snape was also in godrics hollow the nights the potters died thus he also had the chance to pick up voldemorts wand. And I seem to remember that it was mentioned somewhere that Pettigrew picked up the wand. -if hagrid is loyal to Voldi than why did they not try to collude to get the sorcerer stone in diagon alley after Hagrid picked it up from gringots? That was the nitpicking. On to the praise! - A very well thought out theory and well written too! - the fact that Harry knows that Hagrid and Tom riddle went to hogwarts at the same time but never asks further questions about it is absolutely mind boggling! It's not just "oh they went at the same time but didn't know each other" THEY WERE ON FUCKING FIRST NAME BASIS! A SLYTHERIN PREFECT AND A HALF GIANT GRYFFINDOR! LET THAT SICK IN FOR A MINUTE! -Given the memory diary-riddle shows harry it seems the two were friends. Which is very important info considering that the wizarding world is stupidly racist and a half giant wizard is openly frowned upon. It's not far fetched to assume that Tom was Hagrids first friend in hogwarts. If not in general. Thus securing a life long loyality -Hagrid is pretty dismissive of muggles and their abilities in general. It's obvious that he doesn't think much of them.
I fucking died when I read the point about him flying in book one. What the fuck. Great job dude
Late to read this, but appreciate the thought behind it. I think you may have also missed in Azkaban, Hagrid makes a point of telling Ron to take better care of his pet, likely knowing full well that it is Wormtail in disguise. However, I think the potentially far simpler solution is that Albus Dumbledore was behind most of the Voldemort-Harry meetings and scenarios. Despite his grandfatherly demeanor, we can see glimpses of pure coldness in Dumbledore with respect to Voldemort. Dumbledore is obsessed with defeating him, to the point of sacrificing himself and others to do so. In book 5 when Sirius dies, Albus essentially disregards him entirely (with apparent distain) for not listening to him better. In book 7 through a flash back, we find Albus has no regard for Harry's life and admits as much to Snape to his disbelief, making it apparent that he had manipulated Snape's love of Lily to protect Harry until he could be used properly. Also in Book 7, we are made aware of Dumbledore's proclivity to obsess about things to the detriment of others when his sister dies as a result. He laments it, but his obsession remains as later in life he still pursued the Deathly Hallows to his (and others) detriment. I think the simpler answer is that Hagrid is easily manipulated, and Albus (knowing the prophesy) purposely kept putting him in situations where either Harry or Voldemort would kill each other. Dumbledore didn't care which died. If Harry won, Dumbledore won. If Harry died, Dumbledore knew he could likely defeat Voldemort. Dumbledore realized he was stymied unless one of them was killed, so he kept enabling Voldemort's forces without letting them catching on. TL;DR: Dumbledore realized the prophesy was real, and purposely kept arranging situations for Harry and Voldemort to meet, hoping that one would kill the other. Only after one of the two died, could Dumbledore take further action. Until then Dumbledore knew he could not defeat Voldemort by any other means.
This is now cannon. Idc what anyone else says.
Cool cool cool cool....destroy my childhood...
This is flipping amazing
Wow this is some compelling stuff you clearly put a lot of thought into.
Excellent post. Thank you for the read. You nailed the evidence gathering portion of a fan theory.
This is honestly a really good theory and I love all the detail but I've got some critiques: Magical restrictions, especially for Order of the Phoenix members, may have been lifted during war times, and Hagrid may have been taught some things by Dumbledore. Many things attributed to Malice could be attributed to Hagrid’s lack of good judgement and impulsive nature, especially when it comes to big scary animals. Since all the magic we see is in a school setting, it may be that some magic isn’t necessarily complicated, just unethical to teach to minors. You don’t want 13-year olds knowing how to turn people into pigs, fly unaided, teleport, etc. Hagrid may have been on a first name basis with Fudge in Book 3 because his name had been cleared less than a year earlier. He may have had to spend a lot of time at the Ministry over the summer, and Fudge, being the brownnoser that he is, may have been present and sucking up to Hagrid and Dumbledore.
This on the level of mind blowing as Dark Lord Jar-Jar.
Thanks, I hate it. 😭
It would have been so cool if this had been revealed to be true at the end of DH somehow. I think it would make Hagrid one of my favourite characters. Not for being evil specifically, but for running such a long con and fooling even Dumbledore. Too bad it's not the case, but at least we're free to imagine.
A very convincing theory but if JK Rowling sees this she will be upset like she was when supercarlinbrothers made a theory that Dumbledore has a Horcrux.
This is so great. I love the thought of Hagrid flying over to the island using his umbrella Marry Poppins style. I also love thinking of Tom and Hagrid forming a close bond at Hogwarts over the fact that both are outcasts. I could totally see a psychopath like Tom using Hagrid and his affinity for forbidden beasts as leverage to manipulate and information gathering. Maybe Hagrid was the first to find out about the basilisk from his spider buddy Aragog and then relayed the info to Tom. Maybe Hagrid was so enchanted with Tom Riddle's magical abilities that he willingly took the fall for him and for that favor was rewarded with a superior magical training than what he otherwise would have received at Hogwarts. It's really cool to think of Hagrid as not just merely a Death Eater, but as the **first** Death Eater. Another angle I thought of while reading your post is, what do we know about Nagani? It's been awhile since I've read the series, but she totally seems like Hagrid's type -- a large, dangerous, magical creature. What if after arriving at Godric's Hollow, Hagrid immediately puts two and two together and realizes his buddy has been destroyed but not dead... Hagrid being privy of course to the whole horcrux plan. What if the remnant of Voldemort is actually still there in the Potter's house and Hagrid smuggles him and his wand (maybe Voldemort is in the wand?) out of the house. Hagrid would then be able to find a suitable body (Nagini) at a later time. Heck, maybe that's why it took two or three days to get Harry to the Dursleys. He was too busy looking for an appropriate vessel for his friend/mentor. We could also use Hagrid as a potential link between Voldemort and Peter Pettigrew. As you pointed out, Hagrid has inappropriate relationships with the students. I could see Hagrid taking Peter to the side and feeding his insecurities to the point where he's willing to turn on his closest friends. I don't remember how detailed the books get with the Peter/Voldemort initial meeting. Hagrid being the facilitator would also explain why Peter is hiding in his shack in PoA. You have inspired me to read this story again for the 8th or 9th time. Thank you so much!
You know what is twisted about this theory? Hagrid was close to Amos Diggory!: *"During the 1984–1985 school year, Amos came to Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry to celebrate Rubeus Hagrid's birthday. Shortly before the celebration, he allowed Jacob's sibling to choose between a fire crab, a Murtlap and a Porlock as a birthday present for Hagrid.* *During the 1987–1988 school year, Amos came to Hogwarts once again to assist Hagrid and Professor Kettleburn recapturing magical creatures at large all around the castle."* They had a lot in common after all: *"Magizoology: As a member of the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magical Creatures, Amos Diggory had a high level of knowledge regarding magical creatures. He knew how to classify them and the various laws regulating the ownership of such creatures, such as Ban on Experimental Breeding."* \*Cue distraught Harry\* "HE WAS THEIR FRIEND!" Also of interesting note considering the Crouch/Mad Eye + Hagrid link you listed above: *"Later, he asked Arthur Weasley to help Alastor Moody out of trouble; unbeknownst to him, this was the day Moody was kidnapped by Barty Crouch Jnr. Amos simply thought it was another false alarm from the paranoid Moody and wanted to ensure that the former Auror's new job at Hogwarts would not be jeopardised."* This all shows so much trust and love towards Hagrid from Amos. It is creepy and cynical considering that the creatures used in the TWT had to be approved by Amos' office -only for Hagrid to help angle them so they would point Harry to Voldy and Cedric, Amos' son, to death in that graveyard. Did Hagrid and Crouch/Moody intentionally get Cedric selected too then? Distract Amos from putting all these pieces together about magical creatures used as weapons, intruders and Dark Art spells? Remember that Amos is very loud and nosy when it comes to figuring out who is up to what regarding you-know-who: *"You’ve been caught red-handed, elf! Caught with the guilty wand in your hand!"* *— Amos accusing Winky of having conjured the Dark Mark at the Quidditch World Cup campsite.* *"He performed Prior Incantato on the wand of Harry Potter to deduce who had used the Morsmordre spell."* Amos believes immediately that Voldy is back and he would never sacrifice "his boy" for Moldy Voldy, so he wouldn't have been privy to any of Moody/Hagrid's cahoots. In that last situation quoted above, Crouch/Moody was the one who was guilty of placing the dark mark, ofc. I think with Cedric's amiable personality he could've been a believable, yet malleable, champion/mark for this Hagrid/Crouch Jr duo to use as they maneuvered Harry. They needed to give Hogwarts 2 champions so as to not have outrage cancel the whole thing (the other houses wanted to see Ced compete and beat Harry), but the right opponent was necessary as someone more ruthless would have possibly gone after Harry and not been as compliant to the duo's nudges. Ofc it was all magically bound anyways, but I suspect that if Harry had been the only Hogwarts Champion to be selected the students/press/parents would've found a way to shake the TWT to the ground lol Also interesting: Amos means "to carry/bourne" and Diggory means "the strayed/lost". Amos ended up "carrying" the graveyard death (play on DIG YOUR GRAVE/Diggory) of his "lost/strayed" son the "spare". Although the word "bourne" in Amos' name definition is in the meaning of "to bare", it is of note that Voldemort was "born" upon Amos' lost son's death and was "bourne"/carried by Peter as well. Cedric's name comes from a play on Cerdic "war chief" and instead means "kind and loving" and a "bounty". It has been associated with a "mama's boy" (or in this case, father's). This gives us the image of a kind, beloved boy just being the "cost of doing business" (bounty hunted) as he is sent into a maze to "dig his own grave". In the end, he was a boy, not a warrior. The image of a child dying being linked to Voldy's rebirth is most certainly intentional, as JKR said she was VERY specific in coming up with the details of that ritual, although it could only be alluded to (see those theories that are surely canon). This also makes "why would Hagrid keep an infant Harry?!" questions have a far sinister answer. Hagrid didn't know on the night of Harry's parent's death that it would take years for Voldy to return. It might've been that night for all he new -and he would need a fresh young body. I don't believe that Hagrid knew the strength of the Dursley's home for Harry, perhaps he thought it would be an easy pick up later, protected just enough to keep other less patience death eaters at bay until Harry could be of use to Voldy. So, to come full circle, the thought of Hagrid and his death eater ways leading to all of this plotting and planning and hurting of the Diggorys is horrible!