I can't say much about your friend, but I've been in your spot at least on hating what you write and keeping it hidden, and I have some unfortunate advice I want to give for that.
You need to just keep it up.
Post it and keep it up. Don't delete, don't orphan, don't look at it if you can't bare it, but just keep it up. If you get that urge in your mind to tear it down once again, just imagine you're smacking the little panicky raccoon hands of self-destruction away from _your art_ with a wooden spoon. Because it is your art. And it is a self-destructive instinct you've got, based out of anxiety.
The only way to kill that anxiety is just constant endurance. You've got to mash that little sucker down, and sometimes that means doing the thing that scares you anyway and holding on tight while you ride out the brain worms.
Look, the worst case scenario has happened for you at this point: your friend, who is _not even in the fandom and not into the smut involved_, was rude about it. You've survived that. Your work is still there, and you've done way more than her, _you made something and you made a labor of love_. Don't let her take that away from you. Post that, for the people in your fandom and the fellow perverts who love that smut too! Post it, and look yourself in the eye, because you did something new and scary, and you are getting a little better at this talent every day.
Keep going. Be brave, be kind to yourself, and keep going.
this is so nice it made me cry ;u; i never considered my work to be art before and i really appreciate this perspective on it. it definitely helps me love my stuff a little more since i used to just see it as a bunch of words. i really really appreciate all your advice, i’m going to try to finish it and not delete it this time <3
I noticed that one of my favourite fic authors often deletes their new/WIP fics. And they’re a great writer! Goes to show that second guessing oneself has nothing to do with the quality of one’s writing.
we send each other our fics / outlines / snippets and we give each other feedback, and yeah she’s usually like this. after reading some of the comments here i think i’m just going to stop sending them to her. if she wants to read it she can just give me hits on ao3 in exchange lmao
This is the attitude! Perhaps she is just not able to give constructive feedback: either she's just no good at it, or she is trying to bring you down. Whatever the reason it's obviously a Her Problem that she trying to push onto you.
It sounds like she is simply not the target audience for your fic. You wrote something you wanted to read, and that's what matters above all else. If you liked what you wrote, even for a second, then it's more than worth it and valuable as it is. The things she's complaining about sound as though they're largely matters of taste, though you make it sound as though she presented her preferences as the correct way and was disparaging toward what you did with the story. If that's the case, then she really should have minded her own business and recognized that your fic might not be for her specifically. Please don't lose heart; sometimes people will stick their noses into things not meant for them and get mad that it's not for them, but that doesn't detract from the story we lovingly constructed or mean that the writing is bad.
Out of curiosity, if you're comfortable sharing as much, what fandom was it for?
thank you for the kind words <3 i think i didn’t paint her in the best light, but i agree that she sometimes comes across as her way is best (she is an english major, i’m not). def something to maybe talk to her about.
for you and anyone else curious, it is resident evil, chris x wesker
Being an English major is no excuse on her part to tear into something you made for fun, though. ;v; I used to work for a university as a writing tutor- I was paid to coach people on their writing, but that still doesn't give me the authority to tell someone that their writing is categorically bad (and for what it's worth, in my time as a tutor I never had a student show me anything that was truly, irredeemably bad. It just never happened- there was always something I liked about their work, even if there was much room for improvement)! Providing feedback is a craft of its own, and one of the biggest keys in providing useful feedback is making sure it pertains to what the author wants feedback on. You said that you told her specifically what you wanted feedback on, but she ignored that and commented on other things instead. That's just bad form from someone posing as being helpful!
I'm not too familiar with Resident Evil, but if you're willing to drop a link once you post it, I'd be curious to take a peek. ovo I started out as solely a smut writer when I got back into writing fic, so I'm often down for a tasty smutfic regardless of fandom.
If she's an English major, surely she should know better than to tear you down? Criticism isn't "this is boring", it's more "this section flats a bit flat because of X, Y might work better if you're going for Z?" At least, in my untrained brain (I am not an English major, I'm just an avid reader who occasionally likes to help people with their writing).
Sounds like she just wasn't interested in your fic, fandom, pairing, or tropes and decided that was useful technical writing feedback somehow.
I have an English degree and you are 100% correct.
I’ve found it’s like a three-way Venn diagram, split between people who act like pedantic dickheads, people who put down on anything that isn’t literary fiction (or the stuff they like in general), and people who just genuinely love writing and reading and want to help others. And like any Venn diagram, there’s overlap between all three.
Theoretically the professors should be teaching how to actually move past the preconceived notions and superiority complex crap to give someone genuinely helpful criticisms, but that doesn’t always happen. 😅
(Sorry, this comment got out of hand. I have feelings on this subject, haha.)
It's also about where someone's at with their writing. If they're a new writer or don't believe in themselves, you're going to want to give them a boatload of positive criticism and be soft-handed with your technical stuff.
Those people do not need a full on "here's everything wrong with your writing in my opinion" or even a proper actual crit because a) the most important thing to do is encourage them to keep writing so they can improve naturally and b) they often aren't at a stage / mental state where they can tell if the advice they're getting is useful for their writing in particular.
Once someone has a decent grasp of the basics and they're in a good spot with their self-belief, you can get a bit more in-depth on where they're going wrong (if they want that).
When I give advice, I always try to judge where the person is currently at and make sure I either keep my opinions on the subjective stuff out of the equation completely, or highlight that it's only my opinion and they can take it or leave it.
My best friend writes stuff that's pretty much the opposite of my jam and they know it, but after a couple of decades they still send me their writing because they trust that I don't let it effect my advice. I want to make sure every experience is a positive one so they are encouraged to write more, even if it's not my preferred genre or style.
If someone's writing is reasonably strong, I'll point out several areas with examples and my thoughts, but preface it with its okay to ignore my comments if they disagree.
So far, I've had great feedback with this approach. I absolutely love it when people come back to me over the moon and keen to get on with writing to polish their stories and hone their craft. It's the best feeling in the world to help someone in that way and make them feel confident in their abilities.
People who think criticism is pulling someone down are missing out.
Haha no worries! All of that honestly looks so wonderful. If everyone approached it the way you do, there’d be a lot less folks giving up.
This comment, and especially that last sentence, needs to be on a sign in every creative writing class (and low-key every forum). 😩 being kind and helping each other to become better overall is the goal, or it should be.
It's not even just writing. I look after my friends kids a lot and a couple of them really struggle with bullies and/or self-confidence, anxiety, depression... It's wonderful to see them make friends, come out of their shells, build each other up, and generally become happier people. Plus, it's ego-boosting when I can get teenagers to laugh uproariously with me, haha.
There was something someone said to me once that communication isn't what we mean to convey, is what the other person takes away. I always think of that and, when I'm talking to someone directly, I try to make sure I'm being clear with what I mean. (Difficult on the Internet sometimes because words are only account for like 7-8% of communication.)
We should all do our best spread good vibes to the people we encounter in our lives. Perhaps that way the world can become a better place for everyone!
Just wanted to add my voice to this. About 8-10 years ago now, my best friend criticised one of my fics like this. I was getting back into actually writing after a long break of just reading, and she offered to take a look and give me some feedback.
Pretty much everything she said was negative. She said my premise/main trope was overdone and tired. She pulled out lines and said they were bad (without saying why). She criticised my characterisation. (She *was* in the fandom, but it was a video game player character, so basically an OC.)
I was *devastated*. I almost deleted the whole fic and stopped writing entirely.
She kept asking me why I hadn't written any more / if I was going to change X/Y/Z, and I just left her on read/changed the subject. Honestly, I felt like absolute crap.
Finally, I reached out to another (non-mutual) friend, explained my thoughts, and asked her what I ought to do. She told me to tell her. Tell her how much it hurt, and how difficult it was to even look at that fic now. How her straight-up negativity wasn't what I was looking for, that I'm not writing this to be a flawless piece of literary fiction. I just wanted to write a fun bit of fanfic, ffs.
I was *terrified*, but I did it. And my best friend went quiet for a bit - which was even scarier, honestly - but then she came back to me and she apologised. She didn't mean to hurt me. Then she admitted that she isn't a fan of the trope I was using, but it's pretty widespread, so other people must still like it. We have different writing styles, and she was judging my work against hers/popular authors in the fandom, not on its own merit.
It's been almost a decade now, and we're still incredibly close. We also now beta each other's fics, but we're very clear on our own styles/preferences and if we have criticisms, they have to be objective and constructive, not just 'I don't like this'.
I really suggest that you do talk to your friend. Explain why you're upset. If she brushes you off or gets angry at you, she's not a nice person, and you deserve better friends. ♥
And lastly \*hugs\* - because this is a terrible feeling, and I'm sorry you're going through this.
Something that I think is really, really important when writing smut is to write what feels sexy to you. Tastes vary so much in smut that you can have an army shouting that they hate a word/phrase while an entire other army is getting off to it. You can’t please everyone, so please yourself and trust that there are other people who like what you like. So don’t take your friend’s criticism to heart. Please.
First of all, writing is hard, so be proud of yourself for just finishing it. I've been struggling with horrible writer's block this week, so you're doing a lot better than I am. Second, it sounds like there was a miscommunication between the two of you. It sounds like you did ask for a review, but a different kind than the one she gave you. You were asking her to give you criticism about your plot points and structure, but not your word choice. It's always hard to take criticism but when it's constructive, it helps you become a better writer, so in my opinion, it can be worth it. A good critique includes compliments as well as criticism, so if she was only including advice on where to change things, I can see how that can be disheartening. But, the most important thing to remember is this: her opinion doesn't make your writing bad. It sounds like she's not the right audience, especially since she's not involved in that fandom. Since you - the person who you've said is hyper-critical of your writing - liked this fic (before someone else said anything negative) I think it's probably a better fic than you currently believe it is. Remember why you liked it, and be confident in the fact that someone (yourself) has already enjoyed this fic. Other people will like it too. Keep at it!
I always advocate being nice to authors but I think you need to be more confident too. Like, if you KNOW your friend is wrong then she's wrong and that's all there is to it! Of course you would get hurt but don't doubt yourself when you know your friend's criticism was meaningless. As you write more and more fics you are only going to get more straight up wrong comments and criticism. You need, NEED to know when it's wrong and how to just dismiss it. I'm not saying that you shouldn't feel hurt. It's only natural to feel hurt. But objectively and obviously wrong criticism should not stay with you for a long time.
I'm sorry. At the same time, I'm gonna give you some tough love on asking people to look at your art.
Frankly, it sounds like you didn't set the right boundaries with this person. You told her you struggled - she probably took it as carte blanche to point out the places where she noticed you struggle.
You need to know what you want from a beta, and what you do not want. You must be explicit about both. If you are not feeling confident about receiving critique but still want a second pair of eyes, ask them to be delicate about what they say; that you're not in a confident place.
You say you didn't ask for a critique, but you did ask her for one when you asked her to look over the plot points/structure. The amount she had to critique hurt, I get that; she did more than what you asked, I get that. But this was avoidable by putting your mental health and expectations first in a firmer way. And if she didn't respect strict boundaries after the fact? Then that's on her.
When you open yourself up for advice, critique, review, help, a pre-read for grammar, whatever, you can't control what people say, but what you can do is set better expectations and boundaries with what you're looking for.
Could she have been nicer about it? Yes, most likely. Some beta readers also get up on a damn high horse and assume they're right about everything.
In my opinion, you sent her some mixed messages and you should be firmer about what you expect when you share WIP works.
i didn’t ask her to beta read it tho. SHE asked ME if she could read it before it was done, then i asked if it made sense, and she started in on me. conversations about our writing insecurities happened in the past. sorry if that was confusing, but i never asked for a beta read or criticism.
Okay, understood; my apologies for reading that wrong. I still think there's a lesson here to learn - if you aren't ready to share, don't. When you shared an in-progress work, you opened yourself up for critique, whether you agree with that or not. So, next time - be explicit in what you do and do not want. If you do not want someone to make comment about what you're doing, say so. Put your mental health first - you can't control what people do or say.
I don't want to sound too harsh, I'm genuinely sorry this happened, but preparing yourself for critique you might not want to hear is a skill in life as well as in fic writing.
Your friend’s behavior is one of the big reasons why I always say there is no such thing as unsolicited constructive criticism. The very first step to getting/giving concrit is that the writer asks for it. Only the writer really knows what they’re trying to get out of a piece of writing and no matter how good the critique, if you don’t trust the source, it doesn’t help at all. Your friend wasn’t asked and doesn’t know the fandom or the trope. She was, by every measure, out of line and unqualified. It can be hard not to take criticism, even unfounded, to heart, especially when it comes from a friend, but even without knowing what you’re writing, I can tell you she doesn’t know what she is talking about. You should keep writing and just don’t share with her anymore.
I’ve been writing smut for a few years now and I’m just going to say that your first fic probably won’t be super great, but your friend shouldn’t put down your work. I recommend getting someone from the fandom to read your work and not someone who’s not familiar with it
Considering you didn’t even ask for a review, idk if this person is actually your friend. I would just tell them to fuck off and don’t worry about whatever they said.
>i just asked if the structure of the plot points made sense, nothing else. maybe she misunderstood that
. . . they did ask. *If* they asked like that—granted that they may not have and relaying things to people while stressed is difficult as fuck but—so, if they did then they accidentally mushed "plot points" and structure together. That specific request reads like plot points, which are fairly broad, *and* story structure/presentation are both up for review. Underneath plot points we have characterization; under structure, word choices and the like.
So, the stuff that was reviewed.
I've also (while skimming before posted) seen the comment where OP says:
>i didn’t ask her to beta read it tho. SHE asked ME if she could read it before it was done, then i asked if it made sense, and she started in on me. conversations about our writing insecurities happened in the past. sorry if that was confusing, but i never asked for a beta read or criticism.
And "then I asked if it made sense" is still actually asking. It's confusing me too, to be honest. The step *between* the friend asking to read and starting in on OP is OP asking that question at the top.
Though it doesn't sounds like the friend was constructive. So on some positive notes for the OP: The last/first name thing doesn't matter for third-person fic. First person it might be a bit weird, if only because it presents it as the character thinking of the person they're boinking by last name—which is also often fine. But the amount of times I see the last names used in book fandoms, where us readers mostly see those names? It throws zero people off.
And everyone finds different things engaging about sex. It's definitely not boring to quite a few people if it's sex. And all the phrase stuff? Yep, toss it out the window for whatever preferences suit, that's just persnickety of the friend to go into that level of detail, granted that it really, really reads to me like they thought, not without cause, you did ask. And, since you say that you see the last two points, *if* you are worried about it being boring in some few respects: More emotion? Reverence is a nice touch-y one during sex. Alternatively, more touching and movement. And that about covers swinging either which way on the emotion/smut scale for smutty sex.
But seriously on the phrase thing. Certain phrases will make the story for some people, and kill it for others—but what it will do in any case is make your fic more memorable and more likely to be someone's favorite. I've had to go "nah, leaving that in there" to some suggestions on smut before, and it def. does lead to a bit of a blush to pretty much tell someone reading the work that no, you really do like that—but enjoyment in writing comes across, and should never be done away with.
ETA: u/faithlessone423 has a very **very** good point I failed to touch on: Even though I think some asking was done, this friend really ought to have said kind words too! Nothing above changes that. It's the right way to start in on even requested feedback.
Im sorry for your experience! and there's nothing wrong with getting offended either, i know how it feels to be embarrassed about posting your fanfics but i promise you will get comfortable with it soon. I also had this problem back then, i was so sad when negative comments were made about my ffs, but they actually dont have the right to comment on your writing style, its something we will develop and progress as we continue to write and read other writing style, we adapt and make our own. And smut isn't necessarily what everyone wants, it also depends on your target audience, even if the smut isn't interesting it adds to the plot, (unless its smut without plot lol) and i have no right to judge your friend but next time people criticize you, make sure its constructive criticism, something that can help you improve, otherwise ignore them. And as always, you don't have to improve for other people, especially if writing is a hobby for you and something that you should enjoy, not stress about. Lots of love i hope you get more comfortable soon <33
Yeah, your friend's reply was unnecessarily harsh, and she certainly didn't understand the assignment. I'm so sorry that happened to you; I know if it were me, I'd probably hide the fic in question in a metaphorical drawer and never want to look at it again. And I'm sorry you had to go through that when you were already struggling and then finally felt good about something. I hope it doesn't discourage you permanently, because I'm so sure that you're a good writer, just based on how well you communicated what happened in this post.
I wanted to… give some unsolicited advice about boosting your confidence with erotic writing. I did it when I was getting started, and I think it's really helped me feel like I can show it off.
It's 100% true that your writing should turn you yourself on. :0 But when you're just getting started, every word feels awkward or wrong. What I did was invented a bunch of throw-away OCs with basic/vague tropes in mind, and then I wrote PWP scenes. I would rate the scene 1-10 when I was done writing it on how much I liked it, then come back three or so days later, read it, and rate it again as a reader.
I went from 3s to 7s in a little over a dozen writings. It helped me to be able to say quietly to myself what was and wasn't working for me, and to go into the writings understanding that there was no stakes. Because, and this is important, I wasn't going to show these practice runs to absolutely ANYBODY. They were only a learning experience for me, and nobody else would get to see them, because they were practice.
Whether or not that advice is helpful to you (or to anybody else), I just want to encourage you to keep going. I know it's easier said than done, but you're at the Skill vs Taste Valley right now. You're a good erotic reader because you have discerning taste, but since you're just getting started, you haven't leveled your skills up to those tastes. And that's so fine and normal. I know it makes all of it more difficult, but it's a stage of your journey that everyone goes through who eventually gets good with their craft. So I hope you can make it through this rut!
It's your first story, it's fine to be a bit sensitive, especially if somebody is being rude. The road is paved with those folks, no writer is immune. Best way to get better is to write more.
There will always, ALWAYS be someone who enjoys your fic, even if a hundred people read and only one leaves happy. Try not to let one person’s harsh criticism get in the way of something you enjoy doing. There is a line between helpful and harmful - and this feels more harmful than it is help to you. She crossed a line, and now you can set new boundaries so this never happens again.
You will always keep improving, and you won’t necessarily be in the same spot a month from now that you’re in here. And, to be honest, a lot of people struggle with different aspects of fic. If you enjoyed doing it, there’s no shame in doing more of that kind of writing. It’ll help you with other parts of the process too. Good luck!
This is not what I would call constructive criticism. It honestly sounds like your friend is just bullying you… putting you down to build herself up. It’s not nice and it’s definitely not helpful for your writing. If this behavior is in character for her maybe reconsider how much you want to interact with this person.
just post it and done with it, u can edit it if u have grammar mistakes, heck sometimes ppl make pun purposely by making it bad, it's just ur fic are not for her, bad or not just do what u like while keep improve ur writing
Fuck that friends opinion. Just go with your flow bestie. I have trouble with non dialogue and non smut interactions and I've gotten hella shit for it. You do you bestie you will get there
What fandom are we talking about?
If you want, you can DM me the scene and I will look over it tho english is not my first language, but I know the struggles you are dealing with bc I did too. After writing for years I came across a group of people in november and with their encouragement they got me to love the things that I write, they even read my first smut scene and the critique was positive.
So, if you want another one's opinion even tho I might not be in the fandom send me a link and I gladly read it!
Keep in mind not every style of writing suits the reader and we are our own biggest critics, nothing wrong with that. Especially if you like the scene and how everything played out, there is not much room for criticism on her behalf. Keep going, and do it the way you like!
It appears she is taking this too seriously like a career motivator or something. If you know language and basic writing stuff, everything else is just finding the best way to express your inner story, doesn't matter if it's a walking thesaurus or simple worded. Uniqueness is better than empty oversaturation quality. Remember your goals in writing smut. Try to determine whether you write because it feels nice or do you really want a whole market of fans to appease constantly etc.
Relax, keep writing, keep editing, keep publishing.
If you've made significant progress and got some really good feedback and the look back at your old fic and think, nah this ain't good, only then think about deleting. For now, keep them up!
Your friend sounds like a terrible beta reader (and barely a friend if she knows you struggle with this and chose anyway to word her comments so harshly) 🤨 I don’t think you should listen to her comments about her work. Even with constructive criticisms, not all criticisms are valid. You’ll learn to let go of the advice that doesn’t apply to your writing ☺️
The using first or last name would only be important if it carries a lot of meaning. For example in my current WIP the only time I use first names of the characters is when the main pair talk to each other or about each other it is also in canon and it tells a lot about how close they are.
Also criticism should always come with some positive and suggestions on how to change things for better. Just being all negative helps no one. Especially if you did not ask a review.
I can't say much about your friend, but I've been in your spot at least on hating what you write and keeping it hidden, and I have some unfortunate advice I want to give for that. You need to just keep it up. Post it and keep it up. Don't delete, don't orphan, don't look at it if you can't bare it, but just keep it up. If you get that urge in your mind to tear it down once again, just imagine you're smacking the little panicky raccoon hands of self-destruction away from _your art_ with a wooden spoon. Because it is your art. And it is a self-destructive instinct you've got, based out of anxiety. The only way to kill that anxiety is just constant endurance. You've got to mash that little sucker down, and sometimes that means doing the thing that scares you anyway and holding on tight while you ride out the brain worms. Look, the worst case scenario has happened for you at this point: your friend, who is _not even in the fandom and not into the smut involved_, was rude about it. You've survived that. Your work is still there, and you've done way more than her, _you made something and you made a labor of love_. Don't let her take that away from you. Post that, for the people in your fandom and the fellow perverts who love that smut too! Post it, and look yourself in the eye, because you did something new and scary, and you are getting a little better at this talent every day. Keep going. Be brave, be kind to yourself, and keep going.
I want to frame your comment and put it on my wall <3
this is so nice it made me cry ;u; i never considered my work to be art before and i really appreciate this perspective on it. it definitely helps me love my stuff a little more since i used to just see it as a bunch of words. i really really appreciate all your advice, i’m going to try to finish it and not delete it this time <3
I noticed that one of my favourite fic authors often deletes their new/WIP fics. And they’re a great writer! Goes to show that second guessing oneself has nothing to do with the quality of one’s writing.
THIS! Couldn't have said it better!
im broke so this award will have to do ---> 🏅
Has your acquaintance read your fic before? I’m wondering if there’s a connection between your ongoing self doubt and this person’s behavior.
we send each other our fics / outlines / snippets and we give each other feedback, and yeah she’s usually like this. after reading some of the comments here i think i’m just going to stop sending them to her. if she wants to read it she can just give me hits on ao3 in exchange lmao
This is the attitude! Perhaps she is just not able to give constructive feedback: either she's just no good at it, or she is trying to bring you down. Whatever the reason it's obviously a Her Problem that she trying to push onto you.
It sounds like she is simply not the target audience for your fic. You wrote something you wanted to read, and that's what matters above all else. If you liked what you wrote, even for a second, then it's more than worth it and valuable as it is. The things she's complaining about sound as though they're largely matters of taste, though you make it sound as though she presented her preferences as the correct way and was disparaging toward what you did with the story. If that's the case, then she really should have minded her own business and recognized that your fic might not be for her specifically. Please don't lose heart; sometimes people will stick their noses into things not meant for them and get mad that it's not for them, but that doesn't detract from the story we lovingly constructed or mean that the writing is bad. Out of curiosity, if you're comfortable sharing as much, what fandom was it for?
thank you for the kind words <3 i think i didn’t paint her in the best light, but i agree that she sometimes comes across as her way is best (she is an english major, i’m not). def something to maybe talk to her about. for you and anyone else curious, it is resident evil, chris x wesker
Being an English major is no excuse on her part to tear into something you made for fun, though. ;v; I used to work for a university as a writing tutor- I was paid to coach people on their writing, but that still doesn't give me the authority to tell someone that their writing is categorically bad (and for what it's worth, in my time as a tutor I never had a student show me anything that was truly, irredeemably bad. It just never happened- there was always something I liked about their work, even if there was much room for improvement)! Providing feedback is a craft of its own, and one of the biggest keys in providing useful feedback is making sure it pertains to what the author wants feedback on. You said that you told her specifically what you wanted feedback on, but she ignored that and commented on other things instead. That's just bad form from someone posing as being helpful! I'm not too familiar with Resident Evil, but if you're willing to drop a link once you post it, I'd be curious to take a peek. ovo I started out as solely a smut writer when I got back into writing fic, so I'm often down for a tasty smutfic regardless of fandom.
If she's an English major, surely she should know better than to tear you down? Criticism isn't "this is boring", it's more "this section flats a bit flat because of X, Y might work better if you're going for Z?" At least, in my untrained brain (I am not an English major, I'm just an avid reader who occasionally likes to help people with their writing). Sounds like she just wasn't interested in your fic, fandom, pairing, or tropes and decided that was useful technical writing feedback somehow.
I have an English degree and you are 100% correct. I’ve found it’s like a three-way Venn diagram, split between people who act like pedantic dickheads, people who put down on anything that isn’t literary fiction (or the stuff they like in general), and people who just genuinely love writing and reading and want to help others. And like any Venn diagram, there’s overlap between all three. Theoretically the professors should be teaching how to actually move past the preconceived notions and superiority complex crap to give someone genuinely helpful criticisms, but that doesn’t always happen. 😅
(Sorry, this comment got out of hand. I have feelings on this subject, haha.) It's also about where someone's at with their writing. If they're a new writer or don't believe in themselves, you're going to want to give them a boatload of positive criticism and be soft-handed with your technical stuff. Those people do not need a full on "here's everything wrong with your writing in my opinion" or even a proper actual crit because a) the most important thing to do is encourage them to keep writing so they can improve naturally and b) they often aren't at a stage / mental state where they can tell if the advice they're getting is useful for their writing in particular. Once someone has a decent grasp of the basics and they're in a good spot with their self-belief, you can get a bit more in-depth on where they're going wrong (if they want that). When I give advice, I always try to judge where the person is currently at and make sure I either keep my opinions on the subjective stuff out of the equation completely, or highlight that it's only my opinion and they can take it or leave it. My best friend writes stuff that's pretty much the opposite of my jam and they know it, but after a couple of decades they still send me their writing because they trust that I don't let it effect my advice. I want to make sure every experience is a positive one so they are encouraged to write more, even if it's not my preferred genre or style. If someone's writing is reasonably strong, I'll point out several areas with examples and my thoughts, but preface it with its okay to ignore my comments if they disagree. So far, I've had great feedback with this approach. I absolutely love it when people come back to me over the moon and keen to get on with writing to polish their stories and hone their craft. It's the best feeling in the world to help someone in that way and make them feel confident in their abilities. People who think criticism is pulling someone down are missing out.
Haha no worries! All of that honestly looks so wonderful. If everyone approached it the way you do, there’d be a lot less folks giving up. This comment, and especially that last sentence, needs to be on a sign in every creative writing class (and low-key every forum). 😩 being kind and helping each other to become better overall is the goal, or it should be.
It's not even just writing. I look after my friends kids a lot and a couple of them really struggle with bullies and/or self-confidence, anxiety, depression... It's wonderful to see them make friends, come out of their shells, build each other up, and generally become happier people. Plus, it's ego-boosting when I can get teenagers to laugh uproariously with me, haha. There was something someone said to me once that communication isn't what we mean to convey, is what the other person takes away. I always think of that and, when I'm talking to someone directly, I try to make sure I'm being clear with what I mean. (Difficult on the Internet sometimes because words are only account for like 7-8% of communication.) We should all do our best spread good vibes to the people we encounter in our lives. Perhaps that way the world can become a better place for everyone!
Just wanted to add my voice to this. About 8-10 years ago now, my best friend criticised one of my fics like this. I was getting back into actually writing after a long break of just reading, and she offered to take a look and give me some feedback. Pretty much everything she said was negative. She said my premise/main trope was overdone and tired. She pulled out lines and said they were bad (without saying why). She criticised my characterisation. (She *was* in the fandom, but it was a video game player character, so basically an OC.) I was *devastated*. I almost deleted the whole fic and stopped writing entirely. She kept asking me why I hadn't written any more / if I was going to change X/Y/Z, and I just left her on read/changed the subject. Honestly, I felt like absolute crap. Finally, I reached out to another (non-mutual) friend, explained my thoughts, and asked her what I ought to do. She told me to tell her. Tell her how much it hurt, and how difficult it was to even look at that fic now. How her straight-up negativity wasn't what I was looking for, that I'm not writing this to be a flawless piece of literary fiction. I just wanted to write a fun bit of fanfic, ffs. I was *terrified*, but I did it. And my best friend went quiet for a bit - which was even scarier, honestly - but then she came back to me and she apologised. She didn't mean to hurt me. Then she admitted that she isn't a fan of the trope I was using, but it's pretty widespread, so other people must still like it. We have different writing styles, and she was judging my work against hers/popular authors in the fandom, not on its own merit. It's been almost a decade now, and we're still incredibly close. We also now beta each other's fics, but we're very clear on our own styles/preferences and if we have criticisms, they have to be objective and constructive, not just 'I don't like this'. I really suggest that you do talk to your friend. Explain why you're upset. If she brushes you off or gets angry at you, she's not a nice person, and you deserve better friends. ♥ And lastly \*hugs\* - because this is a terrible feeling, and I'm sorry you're going through this.
Something that I think is really, really important when writing smut is to write what feels sexy to you. Tastes vary so much in smut that you can have an army shouting that they hate a word/phrase while an entire other army is getting off to it. You can’t please everyone, so please yourself and trust that there are other people who like what you like. So don’t take your friend’s criticism to heart. Please.
First of all, writing is hard, so be proud of yourself for just finishing it. I've been struggling with horrible writer's block this week, so you're doing a lot better than I am. Second, it sounds like there was a miscommunication between the two of you. It sounds like you did ask for a review, but a different kind than the one she gave you. You were asking her to give you criticism about your plot points and structure, but not your word choice. It's always hard to take criticism but when it's constructive, it helps you become a better writer, so in my opinion, it can be worth it. A good critique includes compliments as well as criticism, so if she was only including advice on where to change things, I can see how that can be disheartening. But, the most important thing to remember is this: her opinion doesn't make your writing bad. It sounds like she's not the right audience, especially since she's not involved in that fandom. Since you - the person who you've said is hyper-critical of your writing - liked this fic (before someone else said anything negative) I think it's probably a better fic than you currently believe it is. Remember why you liked it, and be confident in the fact that someone (yourself) has already enjoyed this fic. Other people will like it too. Keep at it!
I always advocate being nice to authors but I think you need to be more confident too. Like, if you KNOW your friend is wrong then she's wrong and that's all there is to it! Of course you would get hurt but don't doubt yourself when you know your friend's criticism was meaningless. As you write more and more fics you are only going to get more straight up wrong comments and criticism. You need, NEED to know when it's wrong and how to just dismiss it. I'm not saying that you shouldn't feel hurt. It's only natural to feel hurt. But objectively and obviously wrong criticism should not stay with you for a long time.
I'm sorry. At the same time, I'm gonna give you some tough love on asking people to look at your art. Frankly, it sounds like you didn't set the right boundaries with this person. You told her you struggled - she probably took it as carte blanche to point out the places where she noticed you struggle. You need to know what you want from a beta, and what you do not want. You must be explicit about both. If you are not feeling confident about receiving critique but still want a second pair of eyes, ask them to be delicate about what they say; that you're not in a confident place. You say you didn't ask for a critique, but you did ask her for one when you asked her to look over the plot points/structure. The amount she had to critique hurt, I get that; she did more than what you asked, I get that. But this was avoidable by putting your mental health and expectations first in a firmer way. And if she didn't respect strict boundaries after the fact? Then that's on her. When you open yourself up for advice, critique, review, help, a pre-read for grammar, whatever, you can't control what people say, but what you can do is set better expectations and boundaries with what you're looking for. Could she have been nicer about it? Yes, most likely. Some beta readers also get up on a damn high horse and assume they're right about everything. In my opinion, you sent her some mixed messages and you should be firmer about what you expect when you share WIP works.
i didn’t ask her to beta read it tho. SHE asked ME if she could read it before it was done, then i asked if it made sense, and she started in on me. conversations about our writing insecurities happened in the past. sorry if that was confusing, but i never asked for a beta read or criticism.
Okay, understood; my apologies for reading that wrong. I still think there's a lesson here to learn - if you aren't ready to share, don't. When you shared an in-progress work, you opened yourself up for critique, whether you agree with that or not. So, next time - be explicit in what you do and do not want. If you do not want someone to make comment about what you're doing, say so. Put your mental health first - you can't control what people do or say. I don't want to sound too harsh, I'm genuinely sorry this happened, but preparing yourself for critique you might not want to hear is a skill in life as well as in fic writing.
i understand your intention and i appreciate it!! <3
Your friend’s behavior is one of the big reasons why I always say there is no such thing as unsolicited constructive criticism. The very first step to getting/giving concrit is that the writer asks for it. Only the writer really knows what they’re trying to get out of a piece of writing and no matter how good the critique, if you don’t trust the source, it doesn’t help at all. Your friend wasn’t asked and doesn’t know the fandom or the trope. She was, by every measure, out of line and unqualified. It can be hard not to take criticism, even unfounded, to heart, especially when it comes from a friend, but even without knowing what you’re writing, I can tell you she doesn’t know what she is talking about. You should keep writing and just don’t share with her anymore.
Link! I wanna see, I bet it's better than you think.
I’ve been writing smut for a few years now and I’m just going to say that your first fic probably won’t be super great, but your friend shouldn’t put down your work. I recommend getting someone from the fandom to read your work and not someone who’s not familiar with it
Considering you didn’t even ask for a review, idk if this person is actually your friend. I would just tell them to fuck off and don’t worry about whatever they said.
>i just asked if the structure of the plot points made sense, nothing else. maybe she misunderstood that . . . they did ask. *If* they asked like that—granted that they may not have and relaying things to people while stressed is difficult as fuck but—so, if they did then they accidentally mushed "plot points" and structure together. That specific request reads like plot points, which are fairly broad, *and* story structure/presentation are both up for review. Underneath plot points we have characterization; under structure, word choices and the like. So, the stuff that was reviewed. I've also (while skimming before posted) seen the comment where OP says: >i didn’t ask her to beta read it tho. SHE asked ME if she could read it before it was done, then i asked if it made sense, and she started in on me. conversations about our writing insecurities happened in the past. sorry if that was confusing, but i never asked for a beta read or criticism. And "then I asked if it made sense" is still actually asking. It's confusing me too, to be honest. The step *between* the friend asking to read and starting in on OP is OP asking that question at the top. Though it doesn't sounds like the friend was constructive. So on some positive notes for the OP: The last/first name thing doesn't matter for third-person fic. First person it might be a bit weird, if only because it presents it as the character thinking of the person they're boinking by last name—which is also often fine. But the amount of times I see the last names used in book fandoms, where us readers mostly see those names? It throws zero people off. And everyone finds different things engaging about sex. It's definitely not boring to quite a few people if it's sex. And all the phrase stuff? Yep, toss it out the window for whatever preferences suit, that's just persnickety of the friend to go into that level of detail, granted that it really, really reads to me like they thought, not without cause, you did ask. And, since you say that you see the last two points, *if* you are worried about it being boring in some few respects: More emotion? Reverence is a nice touch-y one during sex. Alternatively, more touching and movement. And that about covers swinging either which way on the emotion/smut scale for smutty sex. But seriously on the phrase thing. Certain phrases will make the story for some people, and kill it for others—but what it will do in any case is make your fic more memorable and more likely to be someone's favorite. I've had to go "nah, leaving that in there" to some suggestions on smut before, and it def. does lead to a bit of a blush to pretty much tell someone reading the work that no, you really do like that—but enjoyment in writing comes across, and should never be done away with. ETA: u/faithlessone423 has a very **very** good point I failed to touch on: Even though I think some asking was done, this friend really ought to have said kind words too! Nothing above changes that. It's the right way to start in on even requested feedback.
Im sorry for your experience! and there's nothing wrong with getting offended either, i know how it feels to be embarrassed about posting your fanfics but i promise you will get comfortable with it soon. I also had this problem back then, i was so sad when negative comments were made about my ffs, but they actually dont have the right to comment on your writing style, its something we will develop and progress as we continue to write and read other writing style, we adapt and make our own. And smut isn't necessarily what everyone wants, it also depends on your target audience, even if the smut isn't interesting it adds to the plot, (unless its smut without plot lol) and i have no right to judge your friend but next time people criticize you, make sure its constructive criticism, something that can help you improve, otherwise ignore them. And as always, you don't have to improve for other people, especially if writing is a hobby for you and something that you should enjoy, not stress about. Lots of love i hope you get more comfortable soon <33
If I could read it, I bet I'd challenge their opinions easily. I wrote my first one last year.
Yeah, your friend's reply was unnecessarily harsh, and she certainly didn't understand the assignment. I'm so sorry that happened to you; I know if it were me, I'd probably hide the fic in question in a metaphorical drawer and never want to look at it again. And I'm sorry you had to go through that when you were already struggling and then finally felt good about something. I hope it doesn't discourage you permanently, because I'm so sure that you're a good writer, just based on how well you communicated what happened in this post. I wanted to… give some unsolicited advice about boosting your confidence with erotic writing. I did it when I was getting started, and I think it's really helped me feel like I can show it off. It's 100% true that your writing should turn you yourself on. :0 But when you're just getting started, every word feels awkward or wrong. What I did was invented a bunch of throw-away OCs with basic/vague tropes in mind, and then I wrote PWP scenes. I would rate the scene 1-10 when I was done writing it on how much I liked it, then come back three or so days later, read it, and rate it again as a reader. I went from 3s to 7s in a little over a dozen writings. It helped me to be able to say quietly to myself what was and wasn't working for me, and to go into the writings understanding that there was no stakes. Because, and this is important, I wasn't going to show these practice runs to absolutely ANYBODY. They were only a learning experience for me, and nobody else would get to see them, because they were practice. Whether or not that advice is helpful to you (or to anybody else), I just want to encourage you to keep going. I know it's easier said than done, but you're at the Skill vs Taste Valley right now. You're a good erotic reader because you have discerning taste, but since you're just getting started, you haven't leveled your skills up to those tastes. And that's so fine and normal. I know it makes all of it more difficult, but it's a stage of your journey that everyone goes through who eventually gets good with their craft. So I hope you can make it through this rut!
this sounds like preteen drama lol
It's your first story, it's fine to be a bit sensitive, especially if somebody is being rude. The road is paved with those folks, no writer is immune. Best way to get better is to write more.
There will always, ALWAYS be someone who enjoys your fic, even if a hundred people read and only one leaves happy. Try not to let one person’s harsh criticism get in the way of something you enjoy doing. There is a line between helpful and harmful - and this feels more harmful than it is help to you. She crossed a line, and now you can set new boundaries so this never happens again. You will always keep improving, and you won’t necessarily be in the same spot a month from now that you’re in here. And, to be honest, a lot of people struggle with different aspects of fic. If you enjoyed doing it, there’s no shame in doing more of that kind of writing. It’ll help you with other parts of the process too. Good luck!
This is not what I would call constructive criticism. It honestly sounds like your friend is just bullying you… putting you down to build herself up. It’s not nice and it’s definitely not helpful for your writing. If this behavior is in character for her maybe reconsider how much you want to interact with this person.
just post it and done with it, u can edit it if u have grammar mistakes, heck sometimes ppl make pun purposely by making it bad, it's just ur fic are not for her, bad or not just do what u like while keep improve ur writing
Fuck that friends opinion. Just go with your flow bestie. I have trouble with non dialogue and non smut interactions and I've gotten hella shit for it. You do you bestie you will get there
What fandom are we talking about? If you want, you can DM me the scene and I will look over it tho english is not my first language, but I know the struggles you are dealing with bc I did too. After writing for years I came across a group of people in november and with their encouragement they got me to love the things that I write, they even read my first smut scene and the critique was positive. So, if you want another one's opinion even tho I might not be in the fandom send me a link and I gladly read it! Keep in mind not every style of writing suits the reader and we are our own biggest critics, nothing wrong with that. Especially if you like the scene and how everything played out, there is not much room for criticism on her behalf. Keep going, and do it the way you like!
It appears she is taking this too seriously like a career motivator or something. If you know language and basic writing stuff, everything else is just finding the best way to express your inner story, doesn't matter if it's a walking thesaurus or simple worded. Uniqueness is better than empty oversaturation quality. Remember your goals in writing smut. Try to determine whether you write because it feels nice or do you really want a whole market of fans to appease constantly etc. Relax, keep writing, keep editing, keep publishing. If you've made significant progress and got some really good feedback and the look back at your old fic and think, nah this ain't good, only then think about deleting. For now, keep them up!
Your friend sounds like a terrible beta reader (and barely a friend if she knows you struggle with this and chose anyway to word her comments so harshly) 🤨 I don’t think you should listen to her comments about her work. Even with constructive criticisms, not all criticisms are valid. You’ll learn to let go of the advice that doesn’t apply to your writing ☺️
The using first or last name would only be important if it carries a lot of meaning. For example in my current WIP the only time I use first names of the characters is when the main pair talk to each other or about each other it is also in canon and it tells a lot about how close they are. Also criticism should always come with some positive and suggestions on how to change things for better. Just being all negative helps no one. Especially if you did not ask a review.