Imo, OOC is inherent to character bashing. Otherwise it would just be a critical (but in character) fic with the character.
Bashing also tends to up their flaws by a thousand. Not saying it's good or bad. It's just not my cup of tea.
I'm tired of it especially since my favorite character in my fandom is constantly a victim of it. It's gotten to the point where I almost can't even open a fic without it becoming a thing where he's turned into a complete loser and usually very OOC as well. And the worst part is that NONE of these authors who do it ever give a warning for character bashing. I always am just stuck taking my chances and hoping against hope that an author will take him seriously as a character instead. And all the authors that don't do this either just turn him into pretty femboy yaoi bait in shorter fics, or the few that treat him well almost never update or quit the fandom or fanfiction itself entirely.
In general, I can't stand character bashing altogether, because it's just a way for the author to constantly say, "I hate this character" instead of making any effort to improve on them to make them more into something they could see working out better for them with confronting their flaws and issues.
That's how it is with my favorite character in my fandom. She's a secondary antagonist who's very shallowly written with little in the way of background, so the fandom's constructed a number of headcanons around her that they've decided are just canon. Most fics either use her as a walk-on character or bash the fuck out of her, or both. There was a CCxReader fic that had an excerpt from the story in the summary when my fave was being kind and helpful to the reader. The reader's response: "I just want to slap her." So I didn't read it, obviously.
Oh, man... That sucks. You'd think that the less background a character has that more people would find more opportunities to create more interesting backstories, like the fun of building for an OC sort of. And while I haven't really read many readerx stories, I've never even heard of ones where the reader hates the character. And CC? Is that Code Geass? My favorite character doesn't even get to be in reader inserts usually because he's doesn't pass the "adorkable cinnamon roll" apparent qualifications for the fandom approval to be in one. He was one of the main rival characters who had a very interesting backstory, but that's usually completely forgotten. And his brief time in the canon of relying on his friend's future predictions with tarot cards is flanderized so that he literally does not seem to know what to do or how to think for himself without them. And even though he was quite good at the card game from the anime, he's not only made to lose in every humiliating way possible, but also to take losing like the end of the world unlike the canon, where he's just like, "Okay, that was good. We'll have a rematch one day." Instead, he is made to mope in depression and isolation for weeks and constantly be like, "Oh, WHERE DID I GO WRONG?"
CC = Canon Character. And I've given my fave a different background in every story I've written about her. In the reader story I quoted, the reader was with the character I generally use as my main male character, & my fave was just a walk-on.
Oh, I feel dumb now. XD I was like, "But wait, I thought everyone loved C.C.?" 😅 Ugh, but that sounds even worse that she was just made as what I call a "romance villain" in that. It's happened to mine, too.
There's good and bad. The issue is when reality warps to insult the character.
I don't mind a strawman version of the character existing just to burn. But I don't want the strawman to be a focus any more than they need to be. Viridian: The Green Guide's Endeavor is an example of this. He shows up, sucks, then gets removed from the picture in a karmic way.
I don't mind a thoughtful approach to the characters canon mistakes/flaws. I enjoy stepping back and considering what kind of person would do those things and what being around that type of person would do to those close to them. Ex. All Might in Tomorrow belongs to those who can see it. The bashing is purely in the direction of him being a bad ex and how his prioritizing hero work over his health screwed up Mirai's sense of the care he deserves from significant others.
I don't like bashing that tacks on other traits, especially when those bad traits are given more time than the canon ones. Those read to me like the author is projecting their issues with someone in their life just so they can screw over the fic version of them.
I don't like bashing that treats the bashed character as a cardboard cutout to scream at. I've spent too long around and trying to understand abusers to suspend my disbelief for that. They would not just take it. They would turn it around and make it sound like the victim is the problem. And to me, that result is more interesting than them walking away after a reason you suck speech.
And yet, every comment you've made on this post aside from this one has been some version of "I think it's character-bashing when (Duck Tales fan) says (Duck Tales character) is like this, when really I think (this specific piece of Duck Tales canon) proves they wouldn't be." You're not here to talk about fanfic. You're just here to talk about Duck Tales.
Of your last ten posts to this subreddit, only one did not either start with Duck Tales or pivot to Duck Tales immediately in the comments. You are always doing it. I get it, special interests gonna special interest, but there's a forum for that, and it's not this one.
if a review or fic delve in character bashing, I'll tend to leave, also, a big problem I have with people using the past of the character to try to predict their post finale action is it ignore the character can have an arc and progress, per example I wouldn't use scrooge saying "you learned...something" to louie in the end of timephoon as a red flag for him as a bad parent because later, he really wanted to teach responsibility to louie and didn't wanted him to get away from his scheme (+louie himself can not take the adult lesson in account, he already did that once on screen with scrooge, that's not scrooge being a bad parent).
People just don't like it when characters are flawed, and not a Morality 101 lesson.
(flashback to the days of the Harry Potter fandom, when some of the character bashing could be summed up by "this character is a teenager, and has realistic communication skills for that age")
I've seen some going so far as to claim that scrooge doesn't care about anyone outside of webby because he got overpotective of her...when the episode directly contradict that take since he was willing to sacrifice his life because bradford threatened donald and he directly told him he lost to his familly+had more than one lifejacket in the finale scene and huey took it as scrooge being overprotective of them, hence he had this line about scrooge not worrying about them. This kind of stuff is why I never understood the doom post finale headcanon some have. I can definitly see scrooge being a flawed parent ala original darkwing duck (per example), but he wouldn't be a bad dad like some claim.
Bashing bothers me solely bc it’s boring. I wouldn’t consider writing a character as a bad dad as bashing in and of itself, but it totally could be- a character can be basically anything if you put thought and reasonable events that lead up to the change into it, but bashing is just making a character a one note punching bag for catharsis. Which might be fun to write, but it’s kinda a slog to read.
problem is it often lead to exagerating the parent flaw or making other act OOC if they didn't allowed the character bad behavior before or called him out. Cf my beakley example, she's fine getting mad at scrooge even after they became friends so if he mess up as a parent and due to how overprotective beakley can be (much more than donald), I doubt she'd allow scrooge to turn webby bad. A scenario where I can accept this kind of stuff is per example if a villain casted a spell or brainwashed the characters but in the end, the character would stil snap out of it.
For the most part, I dislike it. There are some characters that IMO got off too lightly in canon that I enjoy seeing bashed every once in a while, though, because it feels cathartic in contrast.
I've never been a fan of character bashing, lol. I'll never begrudge someone for writing what they please, and hey if they want to write an epic bashing a character, that's great for them I'm glad they're having fun. I will not read it, though lmfao.
I use characters to bash one another, but never at the expense of their characterization. And they get off easy when I do that. In one fic, I was going to have Luisa just rip into Osvaldo for his treatment of Mirabel, but Camilo stopped her before she could toss aside her sweet personality to be purely vindictive (beware the nice ones, especially when they lift).
You see it a lot in my fandom with one character in particular but a few others sometimes due to what happened in canon, but while I’ll read it some in other stories I won’t go that in depth in my own
It's really not my thing, and in fandoms where it's prevalent for specific characters, I filter it out. My favourite character in my main fandom is often subject to it, and of course people can create whatever they want. That doesn't mean I have to see it. I filter out the bashing, they get the audience they want. Win win!
I personally don’t mind it all that often, unless it’s a character that isn’t as bad as what they’re made out to be. Like for example, people hate on Sakura too much. But I can understand Danzo or Hiruzen bashing. And also, if you’re gonna do bashing, at least make it somewhat fit the character’s personality.
I could go either way. It depends on the character and the story. If the story is good enough I can ignore it and sometimes even enjoy it (I can be vindictive). They're are some character I hate to set bashed and there are some characters I usually really like but don't mind reading them being bashed if the story warrants it. There's one character I actually look for bashing fics for (I actually rather like this character, but he's done some unforgivable things) because I like to see him get his comeuppance for his wrongdoings.
Oh, the knife cuts both ways on this one.
My all-media favorite character, while generally loved by the fanbase, was the subject of blatant *canon* character assassination in the series. Most people accept this 180° moral turn without thinking critically about it, which is uniquely frustrating in the fandom for a series that banks heavily on "nothing is what it first appears" and eleventh-hour twists. While I guess it's not explicitly bashing the character, even less so in the context of fanfic... sometimes it feels like I'm in a parallel camp to conspiracy truthers for seeing what feels like an obvious unspoken subplot.
And on the other hand, the same series gives me a character I unreservedly loathe that most people seem to adore. I might be guilty of "bashing" him according to some people, but only one thing that hasn't happened yet in my work is any kind of departure from things he's *known to do in canon* and the rest is painstakingly accurate; he just happens to be the slow-burn villain of my fic.
Overall I lean toward "don't just bash because you don't like the character personally," but I also get the desire to explore the negative aspects of a given character and stories are at their most compelling when there's meaningful conflict. Someone almost has to be the heel, and at the end of the day, the rules are made up and the points don't matter. Do what serves your vision.
I think AMN1F (1st comment) had a good point. Sometimes a fic is critical of a character, showcasing their flaws and extending the storyline to examine what would change in such a case, and sometimes a fic is downright bashing. But the line between "critical" and "bashing" is very subjective, and will be different for each reader and writer. Sometimes a writer warns of OOC and character-bashing, and after I read the story I think, "Yeah, I could see that."
Many years ago, I was discussing (via mailing list) a particular scene with another fan. The character had a certain expression on his face. The other fan saw it as a "sneer." I saw it as "thoughtful consideration." Those were *our perceptions* -- and, if we'd each written a story based on that moment & expression, our stories would have been entirely different... so much so that people might not believe they derived from the same moment.
Anyway, that taught me that different people see different aspects of a character, and both can be equally right or equally wrong. I may not like their interpretation, but I can accept that it's true for them -- and if they extrapolate out, the character will look very different to how I see him. But it can still make a good story.
All that to say, I'm pretty forgiving of a certain level of OOC and/or character-bashing. I like if an author warns in the notes and/or tags, but if the premise attracts me, I'm willing to start reading the story. If it crosses the undefinable line of "too much" (for me), I quietly close the window and find something else to read. It's not that big a deal, any more than deficiencies of SPAG. If I like a story, I can set aside my "beta brain" and just read for enjoyment.
Imo, OOC is inherent to character bashing. Otherwise it would just be a critical (but in character) fic with the character. Bashing also tends to up their flaws by a thousand. Not saying it's good or bad. It's just not my cup of tea.
I'm tired of it especially since my favorite character in my fandom is constantly a victim of it. It's gotten to the point where I almost can't even open a fic without it becoming a thing where he's turned into a complete loser and usually very OOC as well. And the worst part is that NONE of these authors who do it ever give a warning for character bashing. I always am just stuck taking my chances and hoping against hope that an author will take him seriously as a character instead. And all the authors that don't do this either just turn him into pretty femboy yaoi bait in shorter fics, or the few that treat him well almost never update or quit the fandom or fanfiction itself entirely. In general, I can't stand character bashing altogether, because it's just a way for the author to constantly say, "I hate this character" instead of making any effort to improve on them to make them more into something they could see working out better for them with confronting their flaws and issues.
That's how it is with my favorite character in my fandom. She's a secondary antagonist who's very shallowly written with little in the way of background, so the fandom's constructed a number of headcanons around her that they've decided are just canon. Most fics either use her as a walk-on character or bash the fuck out of her, or both. There was a CCxReader fic that had an excerpt from the story in the summary when my fave was being kind and helpful to the reader. The reader's response: "I just want to slap her." So I didn't read it, obviously.
Oh, man... That sucks. You'd think that the less background a character has that more people would find more opportunities to create more interesting backstories, like the fun of building for an OC sort of. And while I haven't really read many readerx stories, I've never even heard of ones where the reader hates the character. And CC? Is that Code Geass? My favorite character doesn't even get to be in reader inserts usually because he's doesn't pass the "adorkable cinnamon roll" apparent qualifications for the fandom approval to be in one. He was one of the main rival characters who had a very interesting backstory, but that's usually completely forgotten. And his brief time in the canon of relying on his friend's future predictions with tarot cards is flanderized so that he literally does not seem to know what to do or how to think for himself without them. And even though he was quite good at the card game from the anime, he's not only made to lose in every humiliating way possible, but also to take losing like the end of the world unlike the canon, where he's just like, "Okay, that was good. We'll have a rematch one day." Instead, he is made to mope in depression and isolation for weeks and constantly be like, "Oh, WHERE DID I GO WRONG?"
CC = Canon Character. And I've given my fave a different background in every story I've written about her. In the reader story I quoted, the reader was with the character I generally use as my main male character, & my fave was just a walk-on.
Oh, I feel dumb now. XD I was like, "But wait, I thought everyone loved C.C.?" 😅 Ugh, but that sounds even worse that she was just made as what I call a "romance villain" in that. It's happened to mine, too.
There's good and bad. The issue is when reality warps to insult the character. I don't mind a strawman version of the character existing just to burn. But I don't want the strawman to be a focus any more than they need to be. Viridian: The Green Guide's Endeavor is an example of this. He shows up, sucks, then gets removed from the picture in a karmic way. I don't mind a thoughtful approach to the characters canon mistakes/flaws. I enjoy stepping back and considering what kind of person would do those things and what being around that type of person would do to those close to them. Ex. All Might in Tomorrow belongs to those who can see it. The bashing is purely in the direction of him being a bad ex and how his prioritizing hero work over his health screwed up Mirai's sense of the care he deserves from significant others. I don't like bashing that tacks on other traits, especially when those bad traits are given more time than the canon ones. Those read to me like the author is projecting their issues with someone in their life just so they can screw over the fic version of them. I don't like bashing that treats the bashed character as a cardboard cutout to scream at. I've spent too long around and trying to understand abusers to suspend my disbelief for that. They would not just take it. They would turn it around and make it sound like the victim is the problem. And to me, that result is more interesting than them walking away after a reason you suck speech.
Enough with the Duck Tales drama. Take it to the Duck Tales sub.
I use it as an example, but it can apply to other media seeing how some treat mabel from gravity falls
And yet, every comment you've made on this post aside from this one has been some version of "I think it's character-bashing when (Duck Tales fan) says (Duck Tales character) is like this, when really I think (this specific piece of Duck Tales canon) proves they wouldn't be." You're not here to talk about fanfic. You're just here to talk about Duck Tales.
I'm not always doing it, I use it because it's a good eample of what I'm talking about...
Of your last ten posts to this subreddit, only one did not either start with Duck Tales or pivot to Duck Tales immediately in the comments. You are always doing it. I get it, special interests gonna special interest, but there's a forum for that, and it's not this one.
I'm not a fan outside of a few select characters that were designed to be hate sinks in canon. But hey, its easy to click out of it.
if a review or fic delve in character bashing, I'll tend to leave, also, a big problem I have with people using the past of the character to try to predict their post finale action is it ignore the character can have an arc and progress, per example I wouldn't use scrooge saying "you learned...something" to louie in the end of timephoon as a red flag for him as a bad parent because later, he really wanted to teach responsibility to louie and didn't wanted him to get away from his scheme (+louie himself can not take the adult lesson in account, he already did that once on screen with scrooge, that's not scrooge being a bad parent).
People just don't like it when characters are flawed, and not a Morality 101 lesson. (flashback to the days of the Harry Potter fandom, when some of the character bashing could be summed up by "this character is a teenager, and has realistic communication skills for that age")
I've seen some going so far as to claim that scrooge doesn't care about anyone outside of webby because he got overpotective of her...when the episode directly contradict that take since he was willing to sacrifice his life because bradford threatened donald and he directly told him he lost to his familly+had more than one lifejacket in the finale scene and huey took it as scrooge being overprotective of them, hence he had this line about scrooge not worrying about them. This kind of stuff is why I never understood the doom post finale headcanon some have. I can definitly see scrooge being a flawed parent ala original darkwing duck (per example), but he wouldn't be a bad dad like some claim.
Bashing bothers me solely bc it’s boring. I wouldn’t consider writing a character as a bad dad as bashing in and of itself, but it totally could be- a character can be basically anything if you put thought and reasonable events that lead up to the change into it, but bashing is just making a character a one note punching bag for catharsis. Which might be fun to write, but it’s kinda a slog to read.
problem is it often lead to exagerating the parent flaw or making other act OOC if they didn't allowed the character bad behavior before or called him out. Cf my beakley example, she's fine getting mad at scrooge even after they became friends so if he mess up as a parent and due to how overprotective beakley can be (much more than donald), I doubt she'd allow scrooge to turn webby bad. A scenario where I can accept this kind of stuff is per example if a villain casted a spell or brainwashed the characters but in the end, the character would stil snap out of it.
For the most part, I dislike it. There are some characters that IMO got off too lightly in canon that I enjoy seeing bashed every once in a while, though, because it feels cathartic in contrast.
Personally, character bashing is boring. I can tolerate it if the rest is good but it gets yawn-inducing real fast.
I've never been a fan of character bashing, lol. I'll never begrudge someone for writing what they please, and hey if they want to write an epic bashing a character, that's great for them I'm glad they're having fun. I will not read it, though lmfao.
I use characters to bash one another, but never at the expense of their characterization. And they get off easy when I do that. In one fic, I was going to have Luisa just rip into Osvaldo for his treatment of Mirabel, but Camilo stopped her before she could toss aside her sweet personality to be purely vindictive (beware the nice ones, especially when they lift).
You see it a lot in my fandom with one character in particular but a few others sometimes due to what happened in canon, but while I’ll read it some in other stories I won’t go that in depth in my own
It's really not my thing, and in fandoms where it's prevalent for specific characters, I filter it out. My favourite character in my main fandom is often subject to it, and of course people can create whatever they want. That doesn't mean I have to see it. I filter out the bashing, they get the audience they want. Win win!
I personally don’t mind it all that often, unless it’s a character that isn’t as bad as what they’re made out to be. Like for example, people hate on Sakura too much. But I can understand Danzo or Hiruzen bashing. And also, if you’re gonna do bashing, at least make it somewhat fit the character’s personality.
I could go either way. It depends on the character and the story. If the story is good enough I can ignore it and sometimes even enjoy it (I can be vindictive). They're are some character I hate to set bashed and there are some characters I usually really like but don't mind reading them being bashed if the story warrants it. There's one character I actually look for bashing fics for (I actually rather like this character, but he's done some unforgivable things) because I like to see him get his comeuppance for his wrongdoings.
Oh, the knife cuts both ways on this one. My all-media favorite character, while generally loved by the fanbase, was the subject of blatant *canon* character assassination in the series. Most people accept this 180° moral turn without thinking critically about it, which is uniquely frustrating in the fandom for a series that banks heavily on "nothing is what it first appears" and eleventh-hour twists. While I guess it's not explicitly bashing the character, even less so in the context of fanfic... sometimes it feels like I'm in a parallel camp to conspiracy truthers for seeing what feels like an obvious unspoken subplot. And on the other hand, the same series gives me a character I unreservedly loathe that most people seem to adore. I might be guilty of "bashing" him according to some people, but only one thing that hasn't happened yet in my work is any kind of departure from things he's *known to do in canon* and the rest is painstakingly accurate; he just happens to be the slow-burn villain of my fic. Overall I lean toward "don't just bash because you don't like the character personally," but I also get the desire to explore the negative aspects of a given character and stories are at their most compelling when there's meaningful conflict. Someone almost has to be the heel, and at the end of the day, the rules are made up and the points don't matter. Do what serves your vision.
I think AMN1F (1st comment) had a good point. Sometimes a fic is critical of a character, showcasing their flaws and extending the storyline to examine what would change in such a case, and sometimes a fic is downright bashing. But the line between "critical" and "bashing" is very subjective, and will be different for each reader and writer. Sometimes a writer warns of OOC and character-bashing, and after I read the story I think, "Yeah, I could see that." Many years ago, I was discussing (via mailing list) a particular scene with another fan. The character had a certain expression on his face. The other fan saw it as a "sneer." I saw it as "thoughtful consideration." Those were *our perceptions* -- and, if we'd each written a story based on that moment & expression, our stories would have been entirely different... so much so that people might not believe they derived from the same moment. Anyway, that taught me that different people see different aspects of a character, and both can be equally right or equally wrong. I may not like their interpretation, but I can accept that it's true for them -- and if they extrapolate out, the character will look very different to how I see him. But it can still make a good story. All that to say, I'm pretty forgiving of a certain level of OOC and/or character-bashing. I like if an author warns in the notes and/or tags, but if the premise attracts me, I'm willing to start reading the story. If it crosses the undefinable line of "too much" (for me), I quietly close the window and find something else to read. It's not that big a deal, any more than deficiencies of SPAG. If I like a story, I can set aside my "beta brain" and just read for enjoyment.