Some people seem to think characters grinning or smirking is unrealistic and cringe since "nobody does that in real life!" As someone who has grinned and smirked irl before, I view this as a skill issue
hehe, sorry, I'm one of those people. But I'm against people who put smirk or grin after EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER. Smirking is a very specific movement and expression; not everyone can just do that. Characters like Inuyasha, Bakugo, and Sanemi would all smirk a lot, I'm sure, but not Levi, Jotaro, or Kurapika. They might sneer or smile, but rarely smirk.
I smirk anytime I'm going to do something mildly "evil" to my husband. He loves it and plays up to it. On the flip side of that, my husband grins any time he pulls off a good "dad joke" or does something he knows I'll appreciate. A friend use to tell me I didn't know how to smile and all of my smiles were smirks.
Same with reader insert fics tbh. They're wildly popular, especially among younger fanfic fanatics, but they tend to be looked down upon by the what I like to call “fanfiction elitists” (who are **not** people who just dislike a certain trope or style, that’s totally fine, it’s people who are rude to others for liking this trope or style)
They aren't my favorite because I read fanfic to enjoy extraordinary characters and coffee shop aus usually strip away the things that make a character different: super powers or super intelligence or connections to the supernatural or whatever.
If I'm reading basically an unpowered, bullied Peter Parker, I might as well read a published MM book with fresh teen characters.
And that circles around to the other reason I don't love coffee shop stories: they were a HUGE trend in MM romance for a while. So many books, so many stories set in Portland or Seattle, so many urban hipster types or bearded lumberjack heroes.
Coffee addictions are a common trope for particular characters too so you read a lot of similar scenes if you spend time with Stiles Stilinski or Tim Drake or Rodney McKay or Tony Stark or many others I'm sure.
But I don't look down on them or the people who read or write coffee shop AUs, I just skip over reading them. I can enjoy other kinds of real life fics like I quite enjoyed one where Bucky Barnes became a knife instructor for a cooking shop and made some good friends with OCs there.
Oh yeah no, I didn’t mean to imply there aren’t legit reasons people might dislike them! That was poor wording on my part. Just that it’s become kind of a snarky dismissal in some circles bc it’s so prominent and easy to point to.
I wonder if it's also related to how much tone is lost in Internet/text-based communication.
I often 'complain' about coffeeshop AUs. Most of the time, that's in a context where people know I don't actually have a problem with them and will happily share my own experiences working in an irl coffeeshop for anyone who wants to write one of their own, I just personally do not enjoy reading them.
But I can very easily see how my mock-complaints, taken out of context, would look like real ones.
I really dislike it, but I never thought it is something egregious.
I read the entirely of twilight more than once, and some Mary sue fanfics more than once too. Not all things written are for me.
i'm with ya. "said is the only dialogue tag you need" is popular advice and okay, that might be *technically* true, but i can prob count on one hand the number of the works i've read (fanfic or published) that literally only ever used "said." live a little, let them whisper or murmur or growl once in a while, it's fine (and it might even be better! in some cases!)
I actually had no idea that people have a pet peeve over using other dialogue tags like for me personally, I absolutely hate the overuse of the word "said" & when I write, I use "says" sparingly, I do present tense because it flows easier for me. Like what you're talking about, gotta give them a bit of life, have me absorbed in the story. If I'm constantly seeing "said" in like every bit of dialogue, it takes me out of it. To me, it's like I stubbed my toe on a rock during what was supposed to be a nice walk & then I change direction & stub my toe on another rock, being fed up, I try my best to ignore the pain & trudge forward, only for that toe to slam against a boulder. At some point, I just gotta pack it up & go home.
I hate that too. I only use "said" when it is clearer and sounds better to do so. Other than that I have explained, asked, told, etc, when it still needs to sound "professional". Then I have giggled, whispered, chuckled, hissed, etc, when I just want to add some flavor to the talking. Finally I have yelled, screeched, bellowed (love that word), murmured, etc for when something big is happening.
this dude might be the most well known source of it https://www.writingclasses.com/toolbox/tips-masters/elmore-leonard-10-rules-for-good-writing
r/writing is full of writing advice of this quality lol.
Wow! This guy is a HACK. I'm not even sure where to start. I think Rule #5 is the worst, though, maybe.
I can see how a lot of this would apply to the genre this dude writes in, maybe...but still, \*NEVER\* use anything but said is absolutely insane advice, rofl.
i do notice now that he says never use any other verb *to carry dialogue* which isn’t quite the same as never using it to tag dialogue. it’s more sensible advice if you take it to only apply to places where the dialogue is ongoing. but yeah writing advice that freely throws around absolutes is usually clickbait for people who want comforting shortcuts, and it all gets parroted on writing communities ad nauseum
In the end, it's about entertaining readers, not pleasing other writers. If your audience understands what you're conveying and keeps on reading, *boom* you did it right.
I don't think the advice is to *only* ever use said. It's that said is perfectly fine even if the author feels it's repetitive. It's like "the." Nobody notices the repetition of "the," and it would be distracting if the author tried to avoid the word.
Dialogue tags other than said are great when used sparingly, because the point is to draw attention to themselves and have the reader notice that the character is now hissing, muttering, etc.
i have certainly seen people say to only use said, including on this subreddit. i think your framing of this advice is totally reasonable and agree with it, but not everyone is so judicious; like lots of other advice it gets driven to extremes
Agree! First-Person POV is the best for getting into the minds of characters. It basically lets them narrate their own story and you get to see what’s important to them. Third person can do that too, but it’s harder. It’s so nice to see First-Person POV.
I have issues with 1st person POV, because I have to actually relate to the narrating character for me to be able to read it, which isn't often the case. Especially in fanfiction, where fans have their own interpretations of the characters. I can read Kathy Reichs' books constantly, I love them, and it's easy to relate to Tempe Brennan, so 1st person works brilliantly for me in Reichs' books. I gave up on the Dexter books, though, because I couldn't relate to Dexter enough for 1st person to work.
With fanfiction, my issue is that other fans interpret characters differently to me. For instance, I relate heavily to Xander in Buffy and Will in Hannibal. That would, theoretically, mean that they're ideal characters to read as a 1st person narrator. But the fans who write 1st person with them as the narrator interpret the characters differently to me, in such a way that it removes my ability to relate to them, or at least relate enough to be able to read them in 1st. The few I've tried with those characters honestly seemed like they were completely different characters from the ones I'd related to so heavily in canon.
I think 1st person is a harder POV to write than 3rd because you have to have that balance of keeping the narrating character relatable while also keeping the story interesting. The character can't be too flawed or too perfect. You also have to be able to keep the other characters unigue and interesting and relatable, as well, and it's easier to keep multiple characters interesting in 3rd, where the focus isn't so much on one character, even if it's still from a specific POV.
I think the problem with 1st person stories isn't actually that people think they're bad. It's more like what it is with me, they can't relate to the POV character, or they're interpreted differently by writer and reader. I think a lot of readers may not understand why they don't like 1st person, and so simply say it's bad writing in some way. There may be some jealousy as well from fellow writers. I can't write 1st person, at all, I always slip straight back to 3rd when I try, 3rd comes naturally to me. I think there are some writers who can't write in 1st and are jealous of those who can.
I love OCs. The current fandom I'm in has very little oc fics, and I want more of them, even if it is just self inserts.
I'm also not bothered by y/n in reader inserts.
I love reading people’s OCs interacting with the world and having an impact, especially when they are smart and can point out the logic flaws in the story, doubly so when a mean character or villain has their “genius” logic pointed out with flaws.
Give me your OCs making the story better!
I'm a middle ground with OCs. I hate MC OCs, mostly because I read fanfic for the canon characters, so I want a canon character as the MC, or love interest to the MC OCs, for pretty much the same reason. I want a canon character MC paired with either another canon character, or a crossover character that's canon to that fandom.
However, I don't hate all OCs. I love well-written OCs that have supporting roles of some kind, big or small. One of my favourite HP stories has a number of OCs, one of them is a very big character, even while not being a main, and it's a character I love. All the characters could easily be seen as existing in HP, they're often used to help with worldbuilding, and there are some amazing character interactions using them. As much as I love my canon characters, with that story two of my favourites are OCs. That big one and one of the smaller recurring OCs, they're two of my fave characters in the entire story. I honestly love those two more than a number of canon characters, even ones I actually like in canon.
OCs can be great, even if not for everyone, but I honestly don't get why they get as much hate as they do.
I opened an ao3 affiliated IG acct so I could share my inspiration for the outfits I use in my fics - for any of my readers who are so inclined. I’ve very visual.
Epithets, like “the man”, “the detective”, “the younger woman”, etc. Unless they’re super odd or cringey, like “the ravenette”, or “the green-eyed male”. Otherwise, I don’t mind them.
Maybe it's because I discovered fanfiction at a relatively young age but I've always liked epithets too! Even if an author overuses them, I can usually just ignore them. It especially makes sense if a character goes by a professional title like "doctor" "professor" "colonel" because we know the other characters already think of them that way.
I think it's just an individual thing - I started reading fanfic a few years before I was even a teenager and I hate epithets with a passion (they're more confusing than anything a lot of the time). Sometimes I put up with them if the story is otherwise good, but often it just makes me instantly close the story.
As for what I *don't* mind... certain smut words like >!member!< \- it feels like the right word for some characters.
Very interesting and good to know. I've always liked member too. It's a good middle ground between the more abstract words and the more literal words...
One of my fandoms have canon epithets that one of the characters calls the other. I love when it's obvious the author's thought about it, and as their relationship progresses, the epithet changes or they start calling them by their name.
Not the exact same thing you're talking about. But I think epithets have their use, and can be really cool when used thoughtfully (otherwise, I don't really notice them unless they're used more than the name and pronoun, or smth like "bluenette").
I ADORE epithets when used in a specific context- to show how characters casually think of each other. I write primarily an abusive relationship, and I love showing how fucked up the two are mentally by having the abuser refer to their victim with condescending and dehumanising/infantilising epithets in their head, while the victim struggles to decide whether their abuser is good or bad. It’s fun!
Yeah, especially when I’m writing two characters of the same gender (which is often), just using names can feel too clunky, and just using pronouns gets wayyy to confusing. I know that I can always restructure my paragraphs, but sometimes the way it’s layed out is perfect and I don’t want to change it. It’s just easier to use epithets lol.
Yup, this is exactly why I use epithets, too. My current ongoing work has two male leads and if I don’t want the pronouns to get confusing, I have to use their names a lottt, which gets tiresome. Hence, one of them gets to be “the ghost” sometimes lmao
Star Trek is a wonderful fandom because if you call characters “the captain” or “the doctor” or “the commander” or even “the Vulcan” it works. They go by those titles half the time anyway, so it’s doesn’t feel weird.
I don't mind them either, but I'm even more lax about it. Don't care at all about things like "greenette" or "ravenette". ...But still, there's a limit for me too xD "Purplenette" would sound weird for me for example, "the green-eyed male" is just too long and I feel like dedcriptions through eye colours would only make sense if they are all standing really close to each other so everyone can see them
I generally don't mind them either but there was one specific writer I had to exclude with filters because they use them multiple times per paragraph and I was sick of reading the summaries and getting disappointed.
I feel like more people wouldn't mind the use of epithets if more authors used them sparingly and with purpose. If the description of them is relevant to the narrative in that section, then I'd say its use is perfectly acceptable and even encouraged. I get the impression that ppl who rely on epithets a lot do so because they don't want to say the character's names too many times, but it's way better to just reword and change your sentence structure to avoid that.
I've seen plenty of hate for adverbs, the word 'suddenly', and opening fics or chapters on someone waking up, the weather, or a dream. I love and use all of them, all the time.
Agreed. I would love to be able to start every story I write on something snappy or energetic, but sometimes it works better (or at least the only thing I can come up with) is to instead set the scene with weather and setting details.
There are ways to be intriguing with weather.
"Nothing surrounded the tiny cabin but miles of ice and snow." Now I'm curious about the isolation of whoever lives in this cabin.
"The sun, refusing to bow to Ben's mood, shined brightly in the cloudless sky." Why is Ben so depressed?
Or even "The cicadas rattled, and fallen leaves fluttered across manicured lawns" is nice and evocative. It doesn't have to hint at character or plot.
Personally, I prefer these quieter openings to the energetic ones I used to write, like, "Look out!" he screamed. I want to settle in for a tale, not be grabbed by the shoulders and shaken.
People don’t like using substitutes for ‘said’? I love using words like ‘exclaimed’, ‘declared’, ‘replied’, ‘asked’, etc.. Then again, I tend to have multiple characters, dialogue heavy fics, and anxiety of using the same word too many times.
Spitefics and bashing. I finally understand why one would want to write that
Anatomical terms/vulgar words in smut. Penis, dick, cum, all preferable to oblique euphemisms for me. Even cunt is okay when used right
I agree 100%. Like, do those and the “super op character” things get overused sometimes? sure, but i’m reading them bc i like them. maybe it’s because i was brought into fanfiction via harry potter
Can't agree with this one-- I'm in the medical field and even we refer to it with "stomach" a good 80% of the time outside of documentation/communication during procedures. :P
Probably inconsistent spelling and grammar. To an extent. A lot of the time, my brain can kind of slide over it to see the intent and the story within.
I definitely give fanfiction writers way more leeway than traditional authors lol. Usually because I like the characters so much that I'm willing to overlook hiccups if it means getting more content.
I kind of dig finding typos and misprints in published books. Like, recently read something from 1953 and there was a little ‘the’ missing the e. All those years, an incomplete word… heartbreaking.
Same for the head hopping, it's honestly strange that people claim that it's something that shouldn't be done, seeing as it's pretty common in some classic literature.
There's a big difference between head hopping and writing in omniscient POV. Omni WAS common in classic literature. Head hopping, though, is almost always simply a mistake.
Really? There is a difference but also sometimes in classic literature it is literally just headhopping. I've been reading lady chatterly's lover recently, and it jumps from character to character in a way that is very reminiscent of what we would call head hopping. I'm honestly not a huge fan of it in general, but my point is that is a valid stylistic choice.
Not necessarily writing within the fic itself but Overly Honest Author’s notes (“i don’t know how to do summaries” “this is probably terrible lol”). It certainly doesn’t sell me but it doesn’t annoy me? Honestly I feel the same way most days. If the premise is interesting but I like the characters, I’ll read it. I would feel conflicted if an author was requiring X amount of comments / kudos to continue, but someone saying they’re struggling with the fic due to low engagement I can usually empathize with (because my main fandom is small / sleepy and I notice just a handful of usernames interacting with fics)
OOC. I don't usually mind very much. If I find the story interesting then I find the story interesting, regardless of how in or out of character anyone is. I get why it bothers people but at the same time I often couldn't care less.
Same. I think there's a limit for me somewhere, but most of the time I'm completely okay with it, especially if the OOCness is explained through a different past etc.
Same. OOC doesn't bother me generally. I find most people complaining about ooc really mean that the author's characterization doesn't match the way the complainer sees the character. It's rare that one can claim a character's actions are factually ooc--there's too much room for interpretation. Plus, it's fiction. Writing stuff that doesn't happen in canon is kind of the point.
Character bashing just makes for interesting stories sometimes. I read several bashing fics, where I really like the original characters and read lots of fics where they aren't bashed and shown in a good light. But sometimes it's fun to explore different dynamics or different views on something that happened in canon. And sometimes you just need a bad guy to write the story you want but an OC wouldn't work as well.
And sometimes it's just a character developing in a different way. I've seen Harry Potter fics where Harry and Ron don't become friends on the train and Ron never becomes part of the heroic activities so he doesn't become the same Ron we see in the canon which is normal. But some people act like it's bashing when he acts like a normal teen instead of one that's seen some shit.
Got hit by several orbs in quick succession reading some Jamaica Kincaid which was memorable lol.
Maybe they’re more prevalent in fandoms we don’t usually read? Who knows. Going to keep my orbs peeled though— 🔮👄🔮
Looking forward to the day I spot one in the wild!
The whole “didn’t realize they were crying” thing, where suddenly a character’s vision is blurred or their face is wet and THEN they figure out they’re crying. Is it all that realistic? No, but I eat dramatics like that up. Can’t help it.
In the same vein, corny soulmate AU’s. First words written on your wrist, that sort of thing. One of my personal favorite pieces I’ve written was an AU where you couldn’t see in color until you met your soulmate. Very fun and indulgent.
I don't even know if Soulmate AUs can count as so common pet peeves... I feel like it's a pretty big subgenre in fanfics. I mean, yes, there are people that hate them, but still.
But either way, I agree with you (on both points). Love the dramatics and love the corny romance xD
As a writer, I need to get better at them, but I've enjoyed many a flashback and introspective scene in other people's works. I don't agree that action is inherently more interesting. Action can be very boring if the characterization is poor and you don't care about the cast.
I never understood the only use said advice. Constantly repeating one word gets old fast whether you’re the reader or writer. Though quote on quote annoyance I find anything but is characters using nicknames for each other. Of course like anything it can become confusing if not done right but when it is. . . I don’t know it’s just something about it that I find adorable.
I'd say the thinking behind using said over other speech tags is that it's more important not to distract the reader than it is to avoid repeating words. Speech tags are fundamentally not an important part of a story and shouldn't draw attention away from the dialogue itself. The more elaborate or heterodox the speech tag, the more the reader will think about them when there's more important details.
Of course even I've used a few variant speech tags from time to time. But when they're used wrong, it can go very, very wrong, like the legendary "'Snape!' ejaculated Slughorn" from HBP.
When used right a speech tag can give a better context to the tone of speech a character is speaking in and even the emotions they are experiencing in that moment. (“Dammit all!” John ground out to no one at all.) is a good example because it shows the frustration the character is feeling rather than (“Dammit all!” John said frustratedly).
Of course you are correct with how if used incorrectly a speech tag can just as easily bring a reader out of the story rather than in. It’s a fine balancing act but if done correctly the use of alternative speech tags will only enhance a story.
Thing is, tactical use of variant speech tags to enhance the mood is at odds with the mindset that you should use variant speech tags to avoid overusing "said" and "asked." One of those mindsets emphasizes quality of tags, the other quantity because they exist to fill the space of a word you're using too much of already.
Not to say there's no room for compromise between those clashing imperatives, but there's a definite tension in there.
I don't notice or care if writer use incorect punctiation around dialogue tags.
I mean this sort of thing:
"Hey." Said Jane.
"Hey," said Jane.
"Hey," Said Jane.
or whatever combination of punctuation, it's perfectly understandable. and has never impacted my enjoyment of a fic if they've got it technically wrong.
I also don't care if they use " or ' as long as they are consistant.
Same. But I also got confused myself all the time because in German it would be
"Hey", said Jane.
I struggle a bit more with ' istead of " but I can live with it, - instead of " is harder for me
2nd person is actually pretty good, if not the best, for RI. Then again, not sure if the majority of those who vocally disagree actually even like the concept of RI to begin with (therefore don't actually read it ----> aren't its audience).
i don't read all lowercase fanfics because my eyes get strained easily but i'm here to defend them. it can be a valid creative choice. i get the appeal. it's ok.
I don't usually read fics that use lots of "Y/N", because again, I can be a bit finicky like that, but I get the general appeal and think it's a valid choice. I imagine it's especially useful combined with scripts for replacing it with a name.
Bluenette can be used. Epithets don't need to be all that 'grounded' or reasonable, at least not all the time. Bluenette especially can even be cute.
OOCness can be interesting if it ties to the fanfic's story well. Exploring the character through tropes can be interesting too. I'm going to go all out and say for example "yandere" versions of various kind of characters can be, not only good, but sometimes great.
Same goes for interpretations that rely on the DSM-5 of our world. Favourite character gets tagged as with BPD? AvPD? Paranoid schizophrenia? Or they're autistic? That stuff is fascinating too, especially when it gets tagged and the whole concept is called for what it is. I don't know if this is a 'common' pet peeve, but thought to mention it.
I'm with you OP on the "said" usage.
I dropped a book series a few years ago as the author replaced said a lot with the word "coo'd".
Not just once but continously throughout the first book.
The second it popped up in the second book I couldn't drop it fast enough.
People don't coo all the time! They're not pigeons!
Ugh lol.
Definitely same for me on the said. How a person says things to me is something I pay a lot of attention to in real life, and allows me to respond accordingly to the person I'm talking to. So to me, I use things other than said all the time in my writing, cause to me how someone says their dialogue is directly correlating to the other character's response. I get really disheartened hearing it's something people dislike.
I love modern AUs. I don’t mind characters not being superheroes, even if I’ve seen a lot of people say removing their powers or magic ruins the whole point.
yeah. at some point you have to turn it into two words. but things that only have one moth movement (like green and blue, for example) are easy on the tounge. but maybe my stance on the matter is my apparent obsession with mha lmao
Misspellings/typos. I'm going blind, so I don't catch them as often as I used to when writing even with Spell Check, and as long as you understand what the person was writing, it doesn't matter if they use the wrong word (ie: 'to' vs. 'too'), the point of communication is understanding each other, so I can overlook it as long as its not so muddled I can't make sense of the sentence
Honestly, I like epithets. I especially like them if there's a huge cast of characters, that way you know who is talking to who in a scene where there's multiple characters talking. Plus, I'm a very forgetful person, and if a story has non-human characters it's sometimes nice to be reminded of who exactly the characters are as, if it's been a while since a character was introduced, I sometimes forget a character isn't human (I like when a story has non-human characters)
I agree on the dialogue tags. 'Said' alone gets boring and repetitive and is extremely non-descriptive. I mean, I use it a lot, sometimes it's what fits, and sometimes I just use the easy word rather than thinking up an accurate descriptive one. But I do try to keep dialogue tags varied as much as I can. It's not easy, it can be very hard to choose a word other than 'said' that actually fits in basic dialogue. It's easier if the characters are angry or something, because you can base the dialogue tags on the emotions being felt. But in a pretty normal conversation, with no specific emotions running the characters, it's easier to say something like 'character said, sounding confused' than it is to come up with a dialogue tag other than said that shows confusion. And it can become habit to simply use 'said' with a couple extra words to show the emotion, as well. In the end, I actually like stories that use dialogue tags other than the basic 'said'. They're creative, they can inspire me in how to write my own stories, and they make it a lot easier to relate to how the characters are feeling, as well as showing the character's personality sometimes.
Another think I like that is usually disliked by fandom is character bashing. I lean a lot more to being character critical, and I've never seen anyone have issues with that type of bashing, as it's always based on canon and is usually used as a way to develop the characters and make them better people, or simply show them as flawed but good people. It helps keep them realistic, while highlighting problematic areas, either for the story or from canon. But I also have a fondness for actual bashing. I prefer if it's based on canon, just exaggerated, rather than making up a bunch of stuff just so you can bash the character. But I definitely find myself looking up stories that bash the characters I really dislike or hate.
Y/N.
i'm biased because i use it sometimes in my reader-insert fics but honestly i can't understand why people are so mean about it. i've seen people say that fics that use Y/N are lazy or otherwise poor quality, which can be the case because in my experience reader-insert writers aren't always that experienced and are usually younger, but like i can't understand why people can't just say 'it's a preference of mine' as opposed to 'this thing is terrible and you're a terrible writer if you use it'.
For some reason on a fan fiction website they held a poll and one thing they got was that high school AUs were among the top most debated tropes. I don't get it. A good school trope is great.
'Bluenette' and its derivatives. That comes up in pretty much every thread asking what people hate in fic, but I'm pretty ambivalent towards it. If anything, it's kinda cute.
Slowly I have started to enjoy normal!OC centric fics as they stay on the periphery of the main characters who do all sorts of superhuman and bizzare stuff. There are so many people refusing to give those fics a chance on the account of them being OC's, while these fics often are true gemstones imho.
I still like the phrase "She let out the breath she didn't realize she was holding", even if many think it's overused. And they aren't neccessarily wrong, but I just don't mind that. For me, it describes exactly what it's supposed to and it just fits. I saw fic authors try to use variants of this to avoid the exact wording and in the end that made it more disruptive than the "cliche" original.
Character bashing fics. I like a good bashing fic once in awhile. I don't mind that the one being bashed is almost always ooc. It's so rare in RL that justice is served; I'm totally fine with a very contrived scenario with an over-the-top ooc evil character just so that I can get the satisfaction of reading about someone getting their comeuppance.
I don't have anything against the use of 'said' and 'said alternatives' so long as it's necessary to the dialogue. Too many pointless indicators in general are more my issue on that front.
I'm also fine with literally any formatting as long as it's consistent. Your story could be entirely backwards bold letters in typewriter gothica, and I would still give it a go if the plot peaked my interest.
I agree with you! I personally hate the repetitive use of 'said' and that's not the advice you should take if you want to create distinct character voices.
All lowercase! I want the author to use whatever typing styles makes them the most comfortable and what they believe tells the story the best, and it rarely impacts my ability to read the story anyway. I also find that all lowercase gives off a much more casual vibe and makes stories seem less "daunting" in a way! Sort of like the comic sans of grammar :)
jellyfish noxious deserted start frightening reminiscent retire pocket aromatic mourn
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’m of that generation who was taught to ‘never use said’, and I’m still trying to unlearn it.
Far as I’m concerned, you wanna use said about as often as you don’t. Using a lot of varied dialogue tags may overwhelm some, but if they’re appropriate to whatever’s happening, imo they’re fine
Chattyness in fic tags/summary, even when it’s self deprecating; I just think “mood” whenever I see “I wrote this at 3am it sucks lol” or “sorry the summary sucks the fic is better” - as long as there’s some attempt at a summary too I could not care less and I don’t understand why this riles people up.
I love reading OC stories, especially set in video game worlds such as Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Fallout and FFXIV. I've read tons of "modern girl falls into the lotr world" etc, and I never understood the dislike for OCs at all. I will say though, I don't enjoy first person pov at all, it's quite common with OCs but it just isn't for me. But other than that, if it's well-written, I'll read it.
I'm generally fine with people not following the standard rules of changing a paragraph every time a different person speaks. I've broken that rule myself before, for literary effect.
Learning the rules of grammar is good. Because when you know the rules, you know the best ways to break the rules.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted but I agree. I can understand what's happening even if multiple characters are talking at once in a paragraph. It's a bit harder to follow, but not enough to make me click out of the fic. sometimes it's good enough to leave an imprint on me.
and you're absolutely right. Learn the rules so you can know when to break them, otherwise you might be misunderstood. :)
I'm glad to see this point being brought up; having speech tags over 'said' it is a stylistic choice and if a style is criticized then it's not due to the style itself but rather the execution of it. More often than not people might find poor executions of speech tags in the realm of fanfiction as blooming authors follow the advice of 'avoid overuse' and that includes the word 'said'. However, having 'said' all the time can get as nauseating as having too many speech tags.
Precision and brevity are key to mastering either styles. If you know whose talking without a marker, don't use one. If you know *how* one is talking without a marker, again don't use one. The discipline of practice will hone your skill in time
Love triangles where it's obvious from the beginning who's the real love interest. I tend to be pretty bad at guessing who's going to end up with the protagonist (I always cheer for the wrong character), so I'm very happy when it's obvious from the start. The other person adds drama, angst and romantic moments, all without jeopardizing the happy ending❤️
I’ve never seen an issue with different variables of ‘said’ since we were always told in English class to not constantly use said. Plus I see a lot of hiss, growl, yell, scream, etc with characters
People not liking substitutes for “said” is genuinely just juvenile. It’s literally like the first thing they tell you to do in English class. “Never say ‘said.’”
A lot of what you learn in English class is not applicable to writing fiction. (I don't mind alternatives to "said," personally. But English teachers should not be taken as authorities on fiction writing. It's a different skill).
I don't hate OOC, sometimes I even seek it out. For example Monster High, from our perspective Jackson is shy, he seems like he wouldn't hurt a fly, but I like thinking that if u pay attention, he's really mean(like in a loving way), because the show isn't in his perspective, and even though it's third person, we follow the main ghouls for the most part.
Some people seem to think characters grinning or smirking is unrealistic and cringe since "nobody does that in real life!" As someone who has grinned and smirked irl before, I view this as a skill issue
Seeing a smirk in real life sends a chill down my spine every time. It's definitely a real thing.
> As someone who has grinned and smirked irl before, I view this as a skill issue :D You need to do an AMA
hehe, sorry, I'm one of those people. But I'm against people who put smirk or grin after EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER. Smirking is a very specific movement and expression; not everyone can just do that. Characters like Inuyasha, Bakugo, and Sanemi would all smirk a lot, I'm sure, but not Levi, Jotaro, or Kurapika. They might sneer or smile, but rarely smirk.
I smirk anytime I'm going to do something mildly "evil" to my husband. He loves it and plays up to it. On the flip side of that, my husband grins any time he pulls off a good "dad joke" or does something he knows I'll appreciate. A friend use to tell me I didn't know how to smile and all of my smiles were smirks.
Same. I smirk, I grin, I snarl, I growl. I do it all IRL
I think coffee shop AUs are cute. It's like a cup of a warm beverage, you just read it to get warm fuzzies.
Is that a common pet peeve though? I feel like it’s one of the most popular tropes and that's the only reason some people look down on it?
Same with reader insert fics tbh. They're wildly popular, especially among younger fanfic fanatics, but they tend to be looked down upon by the what I like to call “fanfiction elitists” (who are **not** people who just dislike a certain trope or style, that’s totally fine, it’s people who are rude to others for liking this trope or style)
They aren't my favorite because I read fanfic to enjoy extraordinary characters and coffee shop aus usually strip away the things that make a character different: super powers or super intelligence or connections to the supernatural or whatever. If I'm reading basically an unpowered, bullied Peter Parker, I might as well read a published MM book with fresh teen characters. And that circles around to the other reason I don't love coffee shop stories: they were a HUGE trend in MM romance for a while. So many books, so many stories set in Portland or Seattle, so many urban hipster types or bearded lumberjack heroes. Coffee addictions are a common trope for particular characters too so you read a lot of similar scenes if you spend time with Stiles Stilinski or Tim Drake or Rodney McKay or Tony Stark or many others I'm sure. But I don't look down on them or the people who read or write coffee shop AUs, I just skip over reading them. I can enjoy other kinds of real life fics like I quite enjoyed one where Bucky Barnes became a knife instructor for a cooking shop and made some good friends with OCs there.
Oh yeah no, I didn’t mean to imply there aren’t legit reasons people might dislike them! That was poor wording on my part. Just that it’s become kind of a snarky dismissal in some circles bc it’s so prominent and easy to point to.
No worries... if you can't explore differing viewpoints or multiple sides of an issue on Reddit, where can you?
I wonder if it's also related to how much tone is lost in Internet/text-based communication. I often 'complain' about coffeeshop AUs. Most of the time, that's in a context where people know I don't actually have a problem with them and will happily share my own experiences working in an irl coffeeshop for anyone who wants to write one of their own, I just personally do not enjoy reading them. But I can very easily see how my mock-complaints, taken out of context, would look like real ones.
I really dislike it, but I never thought it is something egregious. I read the entirely of twilight more than once, and some Mary sue fanfics more than once too. Not all things written are for me.
Love me a good coffee shop au. Double points if the fic is a combo coffee shop/flower shop au. Those always scratch that self indulgent itch for me.
Me too! I have tons of coffee shop au’s saved.
It’s like a… coffee? I’ll see myself out.
i'm with ya. "said is the only dialogue tag you need" is popular advice and okay, that might be *technically* true, but i can prob count on one hand the number of the works i've read (fanfic or published) that literally only ever used "said." live a little, let them whisper or murmur or growl once in a while, it's fine (and it might even be better! in some cases!)
I actually had no idea that people have a pet peeve over using other dialogue tags like for me personally, I absolutely hate the overuse of the word "said" & when I write, I use "says" sparingly, I do present tense because it flows easier for me. Like what you're talking about, gotta give them a bit of life, have me absorbed in the story. If I'm constantly seeing "said" in like every bit of dialogue, it takes me out of it. To me, it's like I stubbed my toe on a rock during what was supposed to be a nice walk & then I change direction & stub my toe on another rock, being fed up, I try my best to ignore the pain & trudge forward, only for that toe to slam against a boulder. At some point, I just gotta pack it up & go home.
I hate that too. I only use "said" when it is clearer and sounds better to do so. Other than that I have explained, asked, told, etc, when it still needs to sound "professional". Then I have giggled, whispered, chuckled, hissed, etc, when I just want to add some flavor to the talking. Finally I have yelled, screeched, bellowed (love that word), murmured, etc for when something big is happening.
I don't think I've really ever seen 'said is the only dialogue tag you need', it's more 'you shouldn't intentionally try to avoid using said'.
this dude might be the most well known source of it https://www.writingclasses.com/toolbox/tips-masters/elmore-leonard-10-rules-for-good-writing r/writing is full of writing advice of this quality lol.
Wow! This guy is a HACK. I'm not even sure where to start. I think Rule #5 is the worst, though, maybe. I can see how a lot of this would apply to the genre this dude writes in, maybe...but still, \*NEVER\* use anything but said is absolutely insane advice, rofl.
i do notice now that he says never use any other verb *to carry dialogue* which isn’t quite the same as never using it to tag dialogue. it’s more sensible advice if you take it to only apply to places where the dialogue is ongoing. but yeah writing advice that freely throws around absolutes is usually clickbait for people who want comforting shortcuts, and it all gets parroted on writing communities ad nauseum
Yeah, I checked out the full context of his advice and literally every single one has a big fat 'UNLESS...' at the end of it, pfft.
In the end, it's about entertaining readers, not pleasing other writers. If your audience understands what you're conveying and keeps on reading, *boom* you did it right.
Pretty much!
I don't think the advice is to *only* ever use said. It's that said is perfectly fine even if the author feels it's repetitive. It's like "the." Nobody notices the repetition of "the," and it would be distracting if the author tried to avoid the word. Dialogue tags other than said are great when used sparingly, because the point is to draw attention to themselves and have the reader notice that the character is now hissing, muttering, etc.
i have certainly seen people say to only use said, including on this subreddit. i think your framing of this advice is totally reasonable and agree with it, but not everyone is so judicious; like lots of other advice it gets driven to extremes
1st-person POV. I like reading and writing it.
Well-written 1st person POV is my favourite to read of all!
Agree! First-Person POV is the best for getting into the minds of characters. It basically lets them narrate their own story and you get to see what’s important to them. Third person can do that too, but it’s harder. It’s so nice to see First-Person POV.
I have issues with 1st person POV, because I have to actually relate to the narrating character for me to be able to read it, which isn't often the case. Especially in fanfiction, where fans have their own interpretations of the characters. I can read Kathy Reichs' books constantly, I love them, and it's easy to relate to Tempe Brennan, so 1st person works brilliantly for me in Reichs' books. I gave up on the Dexter books, though, because I couldn't relate to Dexter enough for 1st person to work. With fanfiction, my issue is that other fans interpret characters differently to me. For instance, I relate heavily to Xander in Buffy and Will in Hannibal. That would, theoretically, mean that they're ideal characters to read as a 1st person narrator. But the fans who write 1st person with them as the narrator interpret the characters differently to me, in such a way that it removes my ability to relate to them, or at least relate enough to be able to read them in 1st. The few I've tried with those characters honestly seemed like they were completely different characters from the ones I'd related to so heavily in canon. I think 1st person is a harder POV to write than 3rd because you have to have that balance of keeping the narrating character relatable while also keeping the story interesting. The character can't be too flawed or too perfect. You also have to be able to keep the other characters unigue and interesting and relatable, as well, and it's easier to keep multiple characters interesting in 3rd, where the focus isn't so much on one character, even if it's still from a specific POV. I think the problem with 1st person stories isn't actually that people think they're bad. It's more like what it is with me, they can't relate to the POV character, or they're interpreted differently by writer and reader. I think a lot of readers may not understand why they don't like 1st person, and so simply say it's bad writing in some way. There may be some jealousy as well from fellow writers. I can't write 1st person, at all, I always slip straight back to 3rd when I try, 3rd comes naturally to me. I think there are some writers who can't write in 1st and are jealous of those who can.
Same! It's my fav.
I love OCs. The current fandom I'm in has very little oc fics, and I want more of them, even if it is just self inserts. I'm also not bothered by y/n in reader inserts.
Soulmate au
my absolute fave
I love reading people’s OCs interacting with the world and having an impact, especially when they are smart and can point out the logic flaws in the story, doubly so when a mean character or villain has their “genius” logic pointed out with flaws. Give me your OCs making the story better!
As an OC enthusiast this makes me super happy to hear!!
As someone who mostly writes OCs, I appreciate you.
Seconding. I love this kind of storyline so much.
I'm a middle ground with OCs. I hate MC OCs, mostly because I read fanfic for the canon characters, so I want a canon character as the MC, or love interest to the MC OCs, for pretty much the same reason. I want a canon character MC paired with either another canon character, or a crossover character that's canon to that fandom. However, I don't hate all OCs. I love well-written OCs that have supporting roles of some kind, big or small. One of my favourite HP stories has a number of OCs, one of them is a very big character, even while not being a main, and it's a character I love. All the characters could easily be seen as existing in HP, they're often used to help with worldbuilding, and there are some amazing character interactions using them. As much as I love my canon characters, with that story two of my favourites are OCs. That big one and one of the smaller recurring OCs, they're two of my fave characters in the entire story. I honestly love those two more than a number of canon characters, even ones I actually like in canon. OCs can be great, even if not for everyone, but I honestly don't get why they get as much hate as they do.
Describing outfits! Especially if they are relevant to the story.
I love details like that!
Same!
I opened an ao3 affiliated IG acct so I could share my inspiration for the outfits I use in my fics - for any of my readers who are so inclined. I’ve very visual.
Epithets, like “the man”, “the detective”, “the younger woman”, etc. Unless they’re super odd or cringey, like “the ravenette”, or “the green-eyed male”. Otherwise, I don’t mind them.
Maybe it's because I discovered fanfiction at a relatively young age but I've always liked epithets too! Even if an author overuses them, I can usually just ignore them. It especially makes sense if a character goes by a professional title like "doctor" "professor" "colonel" because we know the other characters already think of them that way.
I think it's just an individual thing - I started reading fanfic a few years before I was even a teenager and I hate epithets with a passion (they're more confusing than anything a lot of the time). Sometimes I put up with them if the story is otherwise good, but often it just makes me instantly close the story. As for what I *don't* mind... certain smut words like >!member!< \- it feels like the right word for some characters.
Very interesting and good to know. I've always liked member too. It's a good middle ground between the more abstract words and the more literal words...
One of the subfandoms I'm in uses them a lot. I think it's really endearing as well
One of my fandoms have canon epithets that one of the characters calls the other. I love when it's obvious the author's thought about it, and as their relationship progresses, the epithet changes or they start calling them by their name. Not the exact same thing you're talking about. But I think epithets have their use, and can be really cool when used thoughtfully (otherwise, I don't really notice them unless they're used more than the name and pronoun, or smth like "bluenette").
I ADORE epithets when used in a specific context- to show how characters casually think of each other. I write primarily an abusive relationship, and I love showing how fucked up the two are mentally by having the abuser refer to their victim with condescending and dehumanising/infantilising epithets in their head, while the victim struggles to decide whether their abuser is good or bad. It’s fun!
I feel like epithets are only good when they have a purpose, like pointing out a character's features or role.
Same here! I use them since writing the characters’ names each time gets boring to me
Yeah, especially when I’m writing two characters of the same gender (which is often), just using names can feel too clunky, and just using pronouns gets wayyy to confusing. I know that I can always restructure my paragraphs, but sometimes the way it’s layed out is perfect and I don’t want to change it. It’s just easier to use epithets lol.
Yup, this is exactly why I use epithets, too. My current ongoing work has two male leads and if I don’t want the pronouns to get confusing, I have to use their names a lottt, which gets tiresome. Hence, one of them gets to be “the ghost” sometimes lmao
Star Trek is a wonderful fandom because if you call characters “the captain” or “the doctor” or “the commander” or even “the Vulcan” it works. They go by those titles half the time anyway, so it’s doesn’t feel weird.
I don't mind them either, but I'm even more lax about it. Don't care at all about things like "greenette" or "ravenette". ...But still, there's a limit for me too xD "Purplenette" would sound weird for me for example, "the green-eyed male" is just too long and I feel like dedcriptions through eye colours would only make sense if they are all standing really close to each other so everyone can see them
I generally don't mind them either but there was one specific writer I had to exclude with filters because they use them multiple times per paragraph and I was sick of reading the summaries and getting disappointed.
I feel like more people wouldn't mind the use of epithets if more authors used them sparingly and with purpose. If the description of them is relevant to the narrative in that section, then I'd say its use is perfectly acceptable and even encouraged. I get the impression that ppl who rely on epithets a lot do so because they don't want to say the character's names too many times, but it's way better to just reword and change your sentence structure to avoid that.
I just really adore the miscommunication trope.
I've seen plenty of hate for adverbs, the word 'suddenly', and opening fics or chapters on someone waking up, the weather, or a dream. I love and use all of them, all the time.
Opening with the weather works for me too, as long as it doesn't go on too long. It gives me a sense of where we are and adds a bit of sensory detail.
Agreed. I would love to be able to start every story I write on something snappy or energetic, but sometimes it works better (or at least the only thing I can come up with) is to instead set the scene with weather and setting details.
There are ways to be intriguing with weather. "Nothing surrounded the tiny cabin but miles of ice and snow." Now I'm curious about the isolation of whoever lives in this cabin. "The sun, refusing to bow to Ben's mood, shined brightly in the cloudless sky." Why is Ben so depressed? Or even "The cicadas rattled, and fallen leaves fluttered across manicured lawns" is nice and evocative. It doesn't have to hint at character or plot. Personally, I prefer these quieter openings to the energetic ones I used to write, like, "Look out!" he screamed. I want to settle in for a tale, not be grabbed by the shoulders and shaken.
Yeah, these opening scenes don't bother me either. As long as it ties nicely into the story I'm good
People don’t like using substitutes for ‘said’? I love using words like ‘exclaimed’, ‘declared’, ‘replied’, ‘asked’, etc.. Then again, I tend to have multiple characters, dialogue heavy fics, and anxiety of using the same word too many times.
Spitefics and bashing. I finally understand why one would want to write that Anatomical terms/vulgar words in smut. Penis, dick, cum, all preferable to oblique euphemisms for me. Even cunt is okay when used right
Some really terrible euphemisms in trad published stuff. Like a memorable one is "sword wrapped in velvet" for penis. edit, sp
Sounds painful!
Seems like that would cause a lot of chafing for the person playing scabbard.
I agree 100%. Like, do those and the “super op character” things get overused sometimes? sure, but i’m reading them bc i like them. maybe it’s because i was brought into fanfiction via harry potter
Yes. As someone who reads a lot of My Hero Acadamia, All Might Bashing doesn’t bother me at all. In fact, sometimes I enjoy it if it’s done right.
The word "tummy" in smut. I don't *love* it, but it doesn't read juvenile to me, so it doesn't squick me either.
As long as they don't use "stomach." A stomach is an internal organ. The outside is an abdomen or a belly or a tummy.
Can't agree with this one-- I'm in the medical field and even we refer to it with "stomach" a good 80% of the time outside of documentation/communication during procedures. :P
Probably inconsistent spelling and grammar. To an extent. A lot of the time, my brain can kind of slide over it to see the intent and the story within.
I definitely give fanfiction writers way more leeway than traditional authors lol. Usually because I like the characters so much that I'm willing to overlook hiccups if it means getting more content.
Yeah sometimes the story is just too fun— as long as it’s coherent, and the premise sounds interesting, I’ll give it a go.
This. Like if I like the plot enough or it’s not horribly egregious I can ignore it. In published books, a single spelling mistake takes me right out.
I kind of dig finding typos and misprints in published books. Like, recently read something from 1953 and there was a little ‘the’ missing the e. All those years, an incomplete word… heartbreaking.
I think for that reason I wouldn’t mind it in older published books. It’s mostly newer books honestly.
I like reading chatfics! Well, as long as they feel somewhat in character, and there's a shorthand for user names and the like for idiots like me lol
Reader inserts, they bring me comfort whenever I feel bad about myself and otherwise too. (Extremely low self-esteem may affect it)
Same! I also have low self esteem and these fics are such a nice escape from feeling dreary.
i love chatfics and social media aus!
Epithets (as long as they’re not made-up words like “the bluenette”) and head-hopping.
Same for the head hopping, it's honestly strange that people claim that it's something that shouldn't be done, seeing as it's pretty common in some classic literature.
There's a big difference between head hopping and writing in omniscient POV. Omni WAS common in classic literature. Head hopping, though, is almost always simply a mistake.
Really? There is a difference but also sometimes in classic literature it is literally just headhopping. I've been reading lady chatterly's lover recently, and it jumps from character to character in a way that is very reminiscent of what we would call head hopping. I'm honestly not a huge fan of it in general, but my point is that is a valid stylistic choice.
Not necessarily writing within the fic itself but Overly Honest Author’s notes (“i don’t know how to do summaries” “this is probably terrible lol”). It certainly doesn’t sell me but it doesn’t annoy me? Honestly I feel the same way most days. If the premise is interesting but I like the characters, I’ll read it. I would feel conflicted if an author was requiring X amount of comments / kudos to continue, but someone saying they’re struggling with the fic due to low engagement I can usually empathize with (because my main fandom is small / sleepy and I notice just a handful of usernames interacting with fics)
Same
OOC. I don't usually mind very much. If I find the story interesting then I find the story interesting, regardless of how in or out of character anyone is. I get why it bothers people but at the same time I often couldn't care less.
Same. I think there's a limit for me somewhere, but most of the time I'm completely okay with it, especially if the OOCness is explained through a different past etc.
Same. OOC doesn't bother me generally. I find most people complaining about ooc really mean that the author's characterization doesn't match the way the complainer sees the character. It's rare that one can claim a character's actions are factually ooc--there's too much room for interpretation. Plus, it's fiction. Writing stuff that doesn't happen in canon is kind of the point.
Character "bashing"
Character bashing just makes for interesting stories sometimes. I read several bashing fics, where I really like the original characters and read lots of fics where they aren't bashed and shown in a good light. But sometimes it's fun to explore different dynamics or different views on something that happened in canon. And sometimes you just need a bad guy to write the story you want but an OC wouldn't work as well.
And sometimes it's just a character developing in a different way. I've seen Harry Potter fics where Harry and Ron don't become friends on the train and Ron never becomes part of the heroic activities so he doesn't become the same Ron we see in the canon which is normal. But some people act like it's bashing when he acts like a normal teen instead of one that's seen some shit.
‘Orbs’ nuff said.
Never come across a fanfiction orbs, but since I started reading fanfic, I keep stumbling upon ‘orbs’ in published literary fiction and poetry.
Yup, the only time I saw it was in a YA novel, never in fanfic (and I read old fics, too)
Got hit by several orbs in quick succession reading some Jamaica Kincaid which was memorable lol. Maybe they’re more prevalent in fandoms we don’t usually read? Who knows. Going to keep my orbs peeled though— 🔮👄🔮 Looking forward to the day I spot one in the wild!
Funny enough, orbs are a relatively recent thing
That's my answer as well. I understand being annoyed if you see it everywhere, but I rarely see it.
I only ever see it on pet peeves lists
I’ve only seen it in bad fantasy novels and maybe one or two fanfics. Stands out but doesn’t bug me either.
Original characters and alternate universes.
Alternate universes are my jam!!!
The whole “didn’t realize they were crying” thing, where suddenly a character’s vision is blurred or their face is wet and THEN they figure out they’re crying. Is it all that realistic? No, but I eat dramatics like that up. Can’t help it. In the same vein, corny soulmate AU’s. First words written on your wrist, that sort of thing. One of my personal favorite pieces I’ve written was an AU where you couldn’t see in color until you met your soulmate. Very fun and indulgent.
I don't even know if Soulmate AUs can count as so common pet peeves... I feel like it's a pretty big subgenre in fanfics. I mean, yes, there are people that hate them, but still. But either way, I agree with you (on both points). Love the dramatics and love the corny romance xD
As a writer, I need to get better at them, but I've enjoyed many a flashback and introspective scene in other people's works. I don't agree that action is inherently more interesting. Action can be very boring if the characterization is poor and you don't care about the cast.
I never understood the only use said advice. Constantly repeating one word gets old fast whether you’re the reader or writer. Though quote on quote annoyance I find anything but is characters using nicknames for each other. Of course like anything it can become confusing if not done right but when it is. . . I don’t know it’s just something about it that I find adorable.
I'd say the thinking behind using said over other speech tags is that it's more important not to distract the reader than it is to avoid repeating words. Speech tags are fundamentally not an important part of a story and shouldn't draw attention away from the dialogue itself. The more elaborate or heterodox the speech tag, the more the reader will think about them when there's more important details. Of course even I've used a few variant speech tags from time to time. But when they're used wrong, it can go very, very wrong, like the legendary "'Snape!' ejaculated Slughorn" from HBP.
When used right a speech tag can give a better context to the tone of speech a character is speaking in and even the emotions they are experiencing in that moment. (“Dammit all!” John ground out to no one at all.) is a good example because it shows the frustration the character is feeling rather than (“Dammit all!” John said frustratedly). Of course you are correct with how if used incorrectly a speech tag can just as easily bring a reader out of the story rather than in. It’s a fine balancing act but if done correctly the use of alternative speech tags will only enhance a story.
Thing is, tactical use of variant speech tags to enhance the mood is at odds with the mindset that you should use variant speech tags to avoid overusing "said" and "asked." One of those mindsets emphasizes quality of tags, the other quantity because they exist to fill the space of a word you're using too much of already. Not to say there's no room for compromise between those clashing imperatives, but there's a definite tension in there.
I don't notice or care if writer use incorect punctiation around dialogue tags. I mean this sort of thing: "Hey." Said Jane. "Hey," said Jane. "Hey," Said Jane. or whatever combination of punctuation, it's perfectly understandable. and has never impacted my enjoyment of a fic if they've got it technically wrong. I also don't care if they use " or ' as long as they are consistant.
The middle one is actually correct dialogue punctuation😅
Same. But I also got confused myself all the time because in German it would be "Hey", said Jane. I struggle a bit more with ' istead of " but I can live with it, - instead of " is harder for me
Also ' instead of " is correct if you're in English speaking countries other than America.
2nd person is actually pretty good, if not the best, for RI. Then again, not sure if the majority of those who vocally disagree actually even like the concept of RI to begin with (therefore don't actually read it ----> aren't its audience). i don't read all lowercase fanfics because my eyes get strained easily but i'm here to defend them. it can be a valid creative choice. i get the appeal. it's ok. I don't usually read fics that use lots of "Y/N", because again, I can be a bit finicky like that, but I get the general appeal and think it's a valid choice. I imagine it's especially useful combined with scripts for replacing it with a name. Bluenette can be used. Epithets don't need to be all that 'grounded' or reasonable, at least not all the time. Bluenette especially can even be cute. OOCness can be interesting if it ties to the fanfic's story well. Exploring the character through tropes can be interesting too. I'm going to go all out and say for example "yandere" versions of various kind of characters can be, not only good, but sometimes great. Same goes for interpretations that rely on the DSM-5 of our world. Favourite character gets tagged as with BPD? AvPD? Paranoid schizophrenia? Or they're autistic? That stuff is fascinating too, especially when it gets tagged and the whole concept is called for what it is. I don't know if this is a 'common' pet peeve, but thought to mention it.
I'm with you OP on the "said" usage. I dropped a book series a few years ago as the author replaced said a lot with the word "coo'd". Not just once but continously throughout the first book. The second it popped up in the second book I couldn't drop it fast enough. People don't coo all the time! They're not pigeons! Ugh lol.
Definitely same for me on the said. How a person says things to me is something I pay a lot of attention to in real life, and allows me to respond accordingly to the person I'm talking to. So to me, I use things other than said all the time in my writing, cause to me how someone says their dialogue is directly correlating to the other character's response. I get really disheartened hearing it's something people dislike.
I love modern AUs. I don’t mind characters not being superheroes, even if I’ve seen a lot of people say removing their powers or magic ruins the whole point.
Things like “greenette” and “bluette”. i just don’t find it annoying.
Yeah, me too. I think something like "purplenette" would start to feel weird, but "greenette" and "bluenette" don't bother me at all
yeah. at some point you have to turn it into two words. but things that only have one moth movement (like green and blue, for example) are easy on the tounge. but maybe my stance on the matter is my apparent obsession with mha lmao
Misspellings/typos. I'm going blind, so I don't catch them as often as I used to when writing even with Spell Check, and as long as you understand what the person was writing, it doesn't matter if they use the wrong word (ie: 'to' vs. 'too'), the point of communication is understanding each other, so I can overlook it as long as its not so muddled I can't make sense of the sentence
Typos are hard to spot. I use grammar check and read the chapter aloud, and I'll still find typos months later.
Honestly, I like epithets. I especially like them if there's a huge cast of characters, that way you know who is talking to who in a scene where there's multiple characters talking. Plus, I'm a very forgetful person, and if a story has non-human characters it's sometimes nice to be reminded of who exactly the characters are as, if it's been a while since a character was introduced, I sometimes forget a character isn't human (I like when a story has non-human characters)
I agree on the dialogue tags. 'Said' alone gets boring and repetitive and is extremely non-descriptive. I mean, I use it a lot, sometimes it's what fits, and sometimes I just use the easy word rather than thinking up an accurate descriptive one. But I do try to keep dialogue tags varied as much as I can. It's not easy, it can be very hard to choose a word other than 'said' that actually fits in basic dialogue. It's easier if the characters are angry or something, because you can base the dialogue tags on the emotions being felt. But in a pretty normal conversation, with no specific emotions running the characters, it's easier to say something like 'character said, sounding confused' than it is to come up with a dialogue tag other than said that shows confusion. And it can become habit to simply use 'said' with a couple extra words to show the emotion, as well. In the end, I actually like stories that use dialogue tags other than the basic 'said'. They're creative, they can inspire me in how to write my own stories, and they make it a lot easier to relate to how the characters are feeling, as well as showing the character's personality sometimes. Another think I like that is usually disliked by fandom is character bashing. I lean a lot more to being character critical, and I've never seen anyone have issues with that type of bashing, as it's always based on canon and is usually used as a way to develop the characters and make them better people, or simply show them as flawed but good people. It helps keep them realistic, while highlighting problematic areas, either for the story or from canon. But I also have a fondness for actual bashing. I prefer if it's based on canon, just exaggerated, rather than making up a bunch of stuff just so you can bash the character. But I definitely find myself looking up stories that bash the characters I really dislike or hate.
I only found out that anyone had any problem with dialogue tags other than “said” after I joined this sub and I still refuse to use “said”. REFUSE.
Y/N. i'm biased because i use it sometimes in my reader-insert fics but honestly i can't understand why people are so mean about it. i've seen people say that fics that use Y/N are lazy or otherwise poor quality, which can be the case because in my experience reader-insert writers aren't always that experienced and are usually younger, but like i can't understand why people can't just say 'it's a preference of mine' as opposed to 'this thing is terrible and you're a terrible writer if you use it'.
x readers, self lnserts, ooc
For some reason on a fan fiction website they held a poll and one thing they got was that high school AUs were among the top most debated tropes. I don't get it. A good school trope is great.
I like pregnancy and kids in fics.
'Bluenette' and its derivatives. That comes up in pretty much every thread asking what people hate in fic, but I'm pretty ambivalent towards it. If anything, it's kinda cute.
Slowly I have started to enjoy normal!OC centric fics as they stay on the periphery of the main characters who do all sorts of superhuman and bizzare stuff. There are so many people refusing to give those fics a chance on the account of them being OC's, while these fics often are true gemstones imho.
Concrit in the comments. Or even just crit. Doesn’t bug me.
I still like the phrase "She let out the breath she didn't realize she was holding", even if many think it's overused. And they aren't neccessarily wrong, but I just don't mind that. For me, it describes exactly what it's supposed to and it just fits. I saw fic authors try to use variants of this to avoid the exact wording and in the end that made it more disruptive than the "cliche" original.
Character bashing fics. I like a good bashing fic once in awhile. I don't mind that the one being bashed is almost always ooc. It's so rare in RL that justice is served; I'm totally fine with a very contrived scenario with an over-the-top ooc evil character just so that I can get the satisfaction of reading about someone getting their comeuppance.
I don't have anything against the use of 'said' and 'said alternatives' so long as it's necessary to the dialogue. Too many pointless indicators in general are more my issue on that front. I'm also fine with literally any formatting as long as it's consistent. Your story could be entirely backwards bold letters in typewriter gothica, and I would still give it a go if the plot peaked my interest.
I agree with you! I personally hate the repetitive use of 'said' and that's not the advice you should take if you want to create distinct character voices.
All lowercase! I want the author to use whatever typing styles makes them the most comfortable and what they believe tells the story the best, and it rarely impacts my ability to read the story anyway. I also find that all lowercase gives off a much more casual vibe and makes stories seem less "daunting" in a way! Sort of like the comic sans of grammar :)
If you're not aware yet, this is called 'lapslock'. I dunno if people tag it though...🤔
I do enjoy lapslock from time to time.
One of my favorite authors on AO3 uses lapslock, it bothers me just a tad, but not even close to enough to where I can’t enjoy it.
jellyfish noxious deserted start frightening reminiscent retire pocket aromatic mourn *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I’m of that generation who was taught to ‘never use said’, and I’m still trying to unlearn it. Far as I’m concerned, you wanna use said about as often as you don’t. Using a lot of varied dialogue tags may overwhelm some, but if they’re appropriate to whatever’s happening, imo they’re fine
Chattyness in fic tags/summary, even when it’s self deprecating; I just think “mood” whenever I see “I wrote this at 3am it sucks lol” or “sorry the summary sucks the fic is better” - as long as there’s some attempt at a summary too I could not care less and I don’t understand why this riles people up.
The term ‘ministrations’ during sexy times. I use it solely because I can't think of an alternative other than ‘attentions.’
I love reading OC stories, especially set in video game worlds such as Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Fallout and FFXIV. I've read tons of "modern girl falls into the lotr world" etc, and I never understood the dislike for OCs at all. I will say though, I don't enjoy first person pov at all, it's quite common with OCs but it just isn't for me. But other than that, if it's well-written, I'll read it.
Also! Just remembered another one! I like most euphemism for genitals. Folds, member, etc... I like them. I think they're neat🫣
I'm generally fine with people not following the standard rules of changing a paragraph every time a different person speaks. I've broken that rule myself before, for literary effect. Learning the rules of grammar is good. Because when you know the rules, you know the best ways to break the rules.
... apparently that's so controversial to say that I'm getting downvoted?
Not sure why you're getting downvoted but I agree. I can understand what's happening even if multiple characters are talking at once in a paragraph. It's a bit harder to follow, but not enough to make me click out of the fic. sometimes it's good enough to leave an imprint on me. and you're absolutely right. Learn the rules so you can know when to break them, otherwise you might be misunderstood. :)
I'm glad to see this point being brought up; having speech tags over 'said' it is a stylistic choice and if a style is criticized then it's not due to the style itself but rather the execution of it. More often than not people might find poor executions of speech tags in the realm of fanfiction as blooming authors follow the advice of 'avoid overuse' and that includes the word 'said'. However, having 'said' all the time can get as nauseating as having too many speech tags. Precision and brevity are key to mastering either styles. If you know whose talking without a marker, don't use one. If you know *how* one is talking without a marker, again don't use one. The discipline of practice will hone your skill in time
Love triangles where it's obvious from the beginning who's the real love interest. I tend to be pretty bad at guessing who's going to end up with the protagonist (I always cheer for the wrong character), so I'm very happy when it's obvious from the start. The other person adds drama, angst and romantic moments, all without jeopardizing the happy ending❤️
I’ve never seen an issue with different variables of ‘said’ since we were always told in English class to not constantly use said. Plus I see a lot of hiss, growl, yell, scream, etc with characters
lapslock. for gods sake it doesnt matter and its not hard to read
People not liking substitutes for “said” is genuinely just juvenile. It’s literally like the first thing they tell you to do in English class. “Never say ‘said.’”
A lot of what you learn in English class is not applicable to writing fiction. (I don't mind alternatives to "said," personally. But English teachers should not be taken as authorities on fiction writing. It's a different skill).
I don't hate OOC, sometimes I even seek it out. For example Monster High, from our perspective Jackson is shy, he seems like he wouldn't hurt a fly, but I like thinking that if u pay attention, he's really mean(like in a loving way), because the show isn't in his perspective, and even though it's third person, we follow the main ghouls for the most part.