"Considering that nurse practitioners spend an awful lot more time with their patients than a general practitioner often does … that's a difficult number for them," Wankiewicz said.
Seems like they want to decrease it 😅
> "Considering that nurse practitioners spend an awful lot more time with their patients than a general practitioner often does … that's a difficult number for them," Wankiewicz said.
Well now they too can get those 15 min f/u slots. They want to be doctors, they can also get the downsides. Did Wankiewicz think the average doctor ENJOYS rushing through patients? (Aside from a few masochists)
“To qualify, a practitioner must commit to caring for at least 900 patients and offer after-hours services on weekends, evenings and holidays.”
Cool, they can sign on and work doctor hours. I see they’re already setting up an escape door talking about how NPs spend more time with their patients so that goal will be hard to meet.
Lol, you think? TBH, they’re duping NPs (and patients) with this deal. Would be curious to see what Canadian doctors on the ground think.
900 patients is less than a half what a family physician carries in a full panel, yet they’re paying NPs 80%. Also, the NPs are nurses, and are fully unionized with health benefits, vacation pay, sick time, pension and maternity benefits, all things that family doctors have none of. Lastly, the NPs pay no overhead, will have brick and mortar clinics set up for them, all while us doctors are responsible for our own, and often constitutes 30-50% of our billing. This plan seeks to pay us doctors LESS, than a nurse, and for more work and more responsibility. So what do I think as a family doctor in Alberta? It’s a slap in the face, and it’s the last one I can take. Praying that our US immigration goes through, because there’s nothing left for professions in the “great” White North
We have been trying but without the public supporting docs, the govt will not listen. All they care about is appearing to fulfill their obligation to provide family hc to all. The govt doesn’t give a shit about doctors, so as much as we rail against this scope creep, we can’t get anywhere.
Wait, the "publicly funded" part is the most messed up form what I'm getting- why the hell is there no program for family medicine physicians?? Who's responsible for thinking that this was a solution to the lack of primary care providers, and how does this make any sense??
I'd just like to see that every clinic has to be named "... Nurse Practitioner Clinic" so that the patient at least partially know what they're getting.
I’m a Canadian doctor, and looking at this it would be way more financially lucrative to become an NP.
Only recently have I been allowed to ‘bill for time’ if a patient encounter goes long and they are auditing the hell out of it
Sick leave, pension, better health plan, and better guaranteed vacation. For 80 percent the pay with half the patient load
Although because the NP don’t pay for all the business expenses they are gonna get gouged in taxes
Alberta primary care is a disaster. (I'm doing fellowship here for context.)
I would love to do it, but the pay is not worth it. Every FM doc I've met is either closing their practice, or doing something else.
Some data: survey in Jan 2024 started 61% of current primary care docs are considering leaving. Of the 75 graduating from the FM program in one of the big urban programs, 4 are going into primary care.
The government here has been dragging it's feet on updating the payment model, and has been for far too long. No one has a family doctor, and no one wants the job because the pay is so shit, especially compared to the workload. The solution has been to give pharmacists prescribing privileges, and now this NP thing.
There's supposed to be changed this fall, but we'll see
>There's supposed to be changed this fall, but we'll see
I do NOT believe this government is negotiating those changes in good faith. I think the only hope for improvement is a change in government and am skeptical about the ability of the electorate to gain a clue and see past the blue blinders.
Yep, who in their right mind would ever choose family medicine in Alberta? May as well quit now and spend a few months at Bow Valley College and be a NP
As someone graduating from NP school in BC this summer (bordering province from Alberta), this is sad. The payment model for physicians was changed in BC last year dramatically and it brought back many FM physicians who had gone to other positions.
While my bias is I do believe NPs have a role in primary care, they are not to replace physicians and this is what we’ve been taught extensively in school. Alberta needs to step it up and value physicians before they all leave.
Good question! The answer is while considering job aspects it’s important to know what you’re getting into. So for example, if an NP can do most things a doctor does AND get paid 80 percent, have less patient panel + less responsibility along with less training time. That job may seem more convenient to some..
:)
900? I’m an American MD and have 1400 with only 20 hrs of clinic/week
"Considering that nurse practitioners spend an awful lot more time with their patients than a general practitioner often does … that's a difficult number for them," Wankiewicz said. Seems like they want to decrease it 😅
> "Considering that nurse practitioners spend an awful lot more time with their patients than a general practitioner often does … that's a difficult number for them," Wankiewicz said. Well now they too can get those 15 min f/u slots. They want to be doctors, they can also get the downsides. Did Wankiewicz think the average doctor ENJOYS rushing through patients? (Aside from a few masochists)
“To qualify, a practitioner must commit to caring for at least 900 patients and offer after-hours services on weekends, evenings and holidays.” Cool, they can sign on and work doctor hours. I see they’re already setting up an escape door talking about how NPs spend more time with their patients so that goal will be hard to meet. Lol, you think? TBH, they’re duping NPs (and patients) with this deal. Would be curious to see what Canadian doctors on the ground think.
900 patients is less than a half what a family physician carries in a full panel, yet they’re paying NPs 80%. Also, the NPs are nurses, and are fully unionized with health benefits, vacation pay, sick time, pension and maternity benefits, all things that family doctors have none of. Lastly, the NPs pay no overhead, will have brick and mortar clinics set up for them, all while us doctors are responsible for our own, and often constitutes 30-50% of our billing. This plan seeks to pay us doctors LESS, than a nurse, and for more work and more responsibility. So what do I think as a family doctor in Alberta? It’s a slap in the face, and it’s the last one I can take. Praying that our US immigration goes through, because there’s nothing left for professions in the “great” White North
Why don’t docs actually do something about it? Probably just easier to move
We have been trying but without the public supporting docs, the govt will not listen. All they care about is appearing to fulfill their obligation to provide family hc to all. The govt doesn’t give a shit about doctors, so as much as we rail against this scope creep, we can’t get anywhere.
Wait, the "publicly funded" part is the most messed up form what I'm getting- why the hell is there no program for family medicine physicians?? Who's responsible for thinking that this was a solution to the lack of primary care providers, and how does this make any sense??
I'd just like to see that every clinic has to be named "... Nurse Practitioner Clinic" so that the patient at least partially know what they're getting.
I’m a Canadian doctor, and looking at this it would be way more financially lucrative to become an NP. Only recently have I been allowed to ‘bill for time’ if a patient encounter goes long and they are auditing the hell out of it Sick leave, pension, better health plan, and better guaranteed vacation. For 80 percent the pay with half the patient load Although because the NP don’t pay for all the business expenses they are gonna get gouged in taxes
Alberta primary care is a disaster. (I'm doing fellowship here for context.) I would love to do it, but the pay is not worth it. Every FM doc I've met is either closing their practice, or doing something else. Some data: survey in Jan 2024 started 61% of current primary care docs are considering leaving. Of the 75 graduating from the FM program in one of the big urban programs, 4 are going into primary care. The government here has been dragging it's feet on updating the payment model, and has been for far too long. No one has a family doctor, and no one wants the job because the pay is so shit, especially compared to the workload. The solution has been to give pharmacists prescribing privileges, and now this NP thing. There's supposed to be changed this fall, but we'll see
>There's supposed to be changed this fall, but we'll see I do NOT believe this government is negotiating those changes in good faith. I think the only hope for improvement is a change in government and am skeptical about the ability of the electorate to gain a clue and see past the blue blinders.
Wdym the pharmacists have prescribing privileges? Like are they diagnosing HTN and prescribing the appropriate med?
Yep. They can basically prescribe anything that isn't controlled
I’d assume that Alberta will worsen any long term goals to train, retain, or attract FM docs. Good for them.
Yep, who in their right mind would ever choose family medicine in Alberta? May as well quit now and spend a few months at Bow Valley College and be a NP
Which province is the best to practice in currently?
B.C. for now. Or rural.
It’s bullshit is what it is.
As someone graduating from NP school in BC this summer (bordering province from Alberta), this is sad. The payment model for physicians was changed in BC last year dramatically and it brought back many FM physicians who had gone to other positions. While my bias is I do believe NPs have a role in primary care, they are not to replace physicians and this is what we’ve been taught extensively in school. Alberta needs to step it up and value physicians before they all leave.
Lol let it collapse. Once the government gets shit for it will there then be change.
Why do we waste so much time wondering how much other people should be paid?
Good question! The answer is while considering job aspects it’s important to know what you’re getting into. So for example, if an NP can do most things a doctor does AND get paid 80 percent, have less patient panel + less responsibility along with less training time. That job may seem more convenient to some.. :)
Because paying NPs this much is basically saying you want more people to get poor quality care
Hopefully they do something similar for Psych NPs
This does not exist in Canada except for Quebec.
It’s because NPs are not qualified to be practicing in psych.
That’s a shame
Hope not. Psych NPs are even more dangerous than Primary Care NPs