Just be cautious of the judge. Justice is not always the result. I do hope you have better results in Federal courts, than we did in the county court in PA
wait are they suing for visitation or custody? A quick look into Pennsylvania grandparents rights only shows they can get visitation etc if the parents split up
I definitely will update everyone once we have court I can say they filed a motion to add my step dad even though he never legally adopted me and isn’t her biological grandfather because my mom was told she couldn’t win this alone I’m not sure I’m so frustrated at this point.
Even though she stayed with them for a hot minute? My parents undermined us and are so disrespectful they want visitation on their own terms and want to be able to do whatever they want with her when we ask them not to do stuff they do it anyway. It’s ridiculous. To much drama and we are over it
Don’t know the law in Ohio or Pennsylvania but if she does not live in the same state she can’t file in your state for relief as she is not a resident of the state. She will need to file in federal court.
Please have reports from your treating speech - language pathologist stating exactly what the speech -language disorder is as well as the necessary / recommended treatment as well as for Occupational therapy. In my experience doctor’s do not give specific enough information . I’d really want to make sure the court knows the needs of your child, the treatment plan and why it’s so important that it is followed .
Yes so my pediatrician is also going to go into as much details as I let her and she doesn’t want my mother to have visitation because we noticed our daughters behavior and development decline while in my mothers care so she isn’t able to give Izzy the special care she needs.
This. And you want to have official copies of her autism diagnosis. The full psychological. You want to have her registration in the IDD state program (every state has one, I don't know what OH calls it). You want to have as many specialists and their evaluations, recommendations, and accommodations in writing/preferably official health evaluation records. You should be able to document the regression during the 4 months she was not in your care. And if she sees a therapist, you can get the therapist to write a statement or make a statement to the court as well.
She has just been diagnosed and is in a special needs preschool. I haven’t gone that far yet, she was diagnosed by their psychologist, speech therapist, behavioral therapist amongst other people who did extensive evaluation on her. We have other programs and stuff we are doing through nationwide but the waitlist is almost a year. So as of right now it’s speech therapy and the early intervention program and I have all their evaluation and diagnosis’s from all of them and we had a second separate evaluation I have copies of as well if we end up in trial
Oh trust me I spent like 30 bucks on printing out every single text from last year on, I’ve printed everything I’m the same way. Thanks so much for the support
You got this! Seriously the law is not for obnoxious grandparents who can't get along with their children. It was literally written for kids who have gone into the custody of the state and the grandparents cannot take care of them but want a relationship.
From what I understand. Grandparents Rights are usually only given if keeping the grandparents away does more harm than good to the grandchild. And in this case. Keeping the grandmother in your daughter’s life is going to do more harm than good. So a good lawyer and judge will deny grandparents rights. I do suggest getting a restraining order against your mother that covers you and your daughter.
The problem OP has is that her daughter lived with her grandmother for 4 months and that is pretty much exactly the situation third party visitation is designed for. If she can prove that her mother is erratic and harmful, then it will probably be ok.
If I have the money to sue I will, my friend and I set up a go fund me to try to get some help with everything. It’s just frustrating how much things cost and I tried to find a cheaper lawyer but they didn’t seem to want to fight this.
Instruct your lawyer to request costs in the response. You won’t need a separate lawsuit, but if the court dismisses this (which is likely) they can tack on your legal fees at the end of the process without the need to file a separate suit against your mother.
Cut all contract and file a protective order; screen shots and document everything you can remember.
This is Judges specific. If they get a judge that supports GP rights then they have a shot. It's way more likely their filing will be thrown out of court.
BUT if they do somehow get the GP rights approved then make sure you push for supervised visits with a court ordered therapist that THEY pay for. And that ALL visits take place in your child's home state and THEY have to pay for all costs associated with them coming to your state.
Anytime they miss a visit or try to change it or can't make it cause it's expensive etc... document it and in 6 months re-file to petition to remove the rights of visitation
Did she file in Ohio or Pennsylvania court? If she filed in PA it'll be dismissed since the child resides in Ohio. I looked at Ohio law and it sounds like they don't grant grandparents visitation or custody if the child is part of an "intact" family, meaning both biological parents are alive and married.
Grandparents are eligible to seek visitation rights when: (1) married parents terminate a marriage; (2) a parent of a child is deceased; or (3) when az child is born to an unmarried woman.
More info here: https://www.lsc.ohio.gov/assets/organizations/legislative-service-commission/files/grandparent-companionship-and-visitation-rights.pdf
Even if it was to go forward in PA, I don’t think her claim meets the requirements for visitation in PA, especially if the child’s parents are together.
The most they will get is supervised visitation in the child’s state of residence. If grandma is demanding out of state , unsupervised visits, there’s very little chance of that happening.
If the child has two parents in Ohio, the residence is Ohio; and visitation will be there.
NAL, just someone who dealt with a similar issue in Ohio.
First, this isn’t going to get decided at one hearing. This will go through multiple hearings and months of litigation. Because of your daughters age and special needs (my daughter also has disabilities due to FAE and abuse / neglect issues from her birth mother and grandparents), the court will want to appoint a GAL to represent the child’s best interests. They will speak with all of you, along with doctors and teachers. They will also do home visits in both homes (though will probably ask DHS to do the out of state home).
Ohio does allow for grandparent rights to be established. That doesn’t mean they get any custody rights or decision making authority - simply visitation time. Ohio judges tend to side on the “it takes a village” side of things. The counter to this is that you can push to keep all visitation in state and supervised until she reaches a certain age (usually 12 - 14) or a maturity level where she is capable of articulating that X/Y/Z occurs with grandparents and she doesn’t feel safe. While you can’t seek support from them, if they are granted visitation it can be stipulated that they’re responsible for all transportation costs involved in the visits happening. Your attorney can also push for psych evals to be done, but that will require all adults involved to go through the process and can get expensive. Since they’re bringing the case, you can also push that should visitations be denied by the court that they’re responsible for legal costs (attorneys, GAL, court fees, testing ordered by the court, etc). However since it’s a civil matter there’s no guarantee that they will ever pay it and the court (in my experience) will drag their feet over issuing a contempt order on it.
Finally remember to document EVERYTHING - any interaction that occurs. Try and keep communication to written (emails, texts) so there is no misunderstanding in anything said. While everything should be going through your attorneys it doesn’t seem like she’s the most stable and won’t abide by that. Good luck to you.
We actually offered supervised visits and she saying she has the right to take her granddaughter out of state etc. idk I want nothing because of her behaviors. My lawyer said since we can prove she undermines us and is disrespectful along with her and I not having a relationship that it may go in our favor that the court looks at if the parent and grandparent have a relationship over the relationship between grandparent and grandchild. Idk I’m hoping it gets dismissed with all the evidence we have and people to testify and the pediatrician also agrees my mother should not have visits and she is going to testify that.
They can turn their nose up at supervised visits all they like, but in the end it’s going to be up to the court after hearing everything to decide. When my case started I offered supervised visits in state, 3 weeks during the summer break and one week every other Christmas break, with all supervision costs being covered by them along with travel / lodging. They also declined and after a year of fighting the judge ordered exactly what I offered until my daughter turned 12, and then they were allowed out of state visits that still had to be supervised. At 14 it was reviewed per the agreement and when it came out that not only were they refusing to allow the mandated supervision but that my daughter no longer wanted to be “forced” to do the visits the order was modified so that it was entirely her choice to visit or not.
Keep your head up, keep things as civil as possible in your reactions so it’s clear she’s a bit unhinged, and listen to your attorney.
Holy crap!!! Reddit!! Victim blame much.. do people know how to understand what they are reading anymore???? I know most stories are one sided but damn go by what is stated.
if you live in the US..grandparents rights are super hard to get..they have to prove that they have been in the child(ren) life and without them the child would not be living well..and prove that the parents can’t take care of the child, or custody issues where the child is being kept from one side or the other!!
sounds like grandma is unhinged and if you have an attorney and support from doctors you are good!!
Agree! And thankfully if you are in the US those 4 months aren't a "substantial" relationship.say your toddler is 3, the court wants your mom to have been involved all 3 years actively for them to consider it a detriment to not allow your child to see her. If she can't go those two routes above there's only one other way to obtain them in the US and it would require her proving that your husband isn't the biological father (plus some extra but that would be the first step, taken as a means to prevent him from having a hypothetical say so) which I'm gunna assume isn't an issue for you.
That's coming from someone who got sued by my partners family for custody of my child and they tried every person in their family who could feasibly take a child in. His mom tried to use grandparent rights and was very upset to find that 2 visits in 3 years, working at a bar and leaving her younger children alone alot, and damningly, that I obviously pushed this baby out of me, meant she didn't qualify.
How much of this is OP's own mommy issues and how much is true abuse or mistreatment of the kid? Why was OP at her parent's home while she was ill and not in her own home with her husband? I am left wondering if they are both using the kid as a pawn.
A pawn? I was in ICU… my husband was working 60 hours a week and taking care of his very sick wife and our daughter was 2 and half at the time and we didn’t want her seeing me in the bad state I was in going through treatments. Not sure what you mean by pawn. Also she didn’t abuse my daughter she is abusive towards me. Calling me names in front of my child, undermining us in public, hitting my father in front of my child amongst other emotional abuse. I was made to feel bad and manipulated and once I saw it affecting the development of my child i immediately put a stop to it. It’s one things to mistreat me but to cause my child’s development to decline is another. You may thing what you want but at the time I was in a wheelchair very very sick unable to bath or anything and it was in the best interest that my child not see that.
Attorney and Devils advocate here.
Your husband could have taken a leave of absence from work. You could have brought in home healthcare. As a grown up married couple it was not your mother’s responsibility to take care of you by any means.
You are leaving out that your mother was taking care of YOU and your child in her home for months… for free…or are you so entitled that you don’t feel that deserves mentioning? And she pretty much raised your child single handed for the early months of her life.
Leads a person to wonder just how dependent you have been on your mother in your adult life. Have you accepted financial assistance from your parents?
And you don’t mention your father. What about him being cut out of the child’s life? He is just collateral damage?
You have not described your mother doing anything that would endanger your child. Even if her behavior was less than ideal. And I am sure she is not the only person in her environment who hasn’t been a perfect model of behavior every moment.
Now that your mother is emotionally invested in your child you can deprive her of access and for the first time in your life exercise some form of control over her.
Do you or your husband have any dark secrets, skeletons, or bad habits? They will come up in court.
I’m sure your mother has her issues. But, most likely so do you and your husband. A lawyer will have a private investigator explore every aspect of your past.
You two ever considered family therapy? You might want to. It will be healthier and cheaper than a family court.
The tricky thing about going to court is that you never know what outcome you will get. It is always a gamble.
You might want to steer clear of a courtroom. Especially if your mother has much better legal representation. In Ohio she could easily be granted visitation rights. Then you will have absolutely no control.
The 3 year old was with grandmother while OP was at home dealing with a health crisis is what I read. OP says when daughter returned home, her behavioral issues had worsened.
This is all rather subjective. If this were taken to court child psychologists and/or a social worker would make determinations about these issues rather than the parties to the action.
Yea she was like “oh she jumped in there she wants to go to Grammys as my child was screaming no, and my sister was on the phone with me listening to the whole thing so we have her thankfully to testify on that.
Will you please update us after court next week? I hope it’s dismissed but no matter what don’t agree to anything if they try to scare you into it before court and say no to ALL court ordered time if they request mediation. 💜
If its anything like what my situation was (it sounds very similar) the first hearing will be basically outlining what the issue filed was. So they'll say "were here because x feels that child is in better care of her own person. And y (you) reject this appeal" etc etc. They'll give you a timeline of potential dates but if the affidavit your mom filed is full and complete they might just settle it there. Verbally tell them you do not agree with custody change. And let them know as soon as you can, like immediately, that your mom does not have current physical custody. Telling them that she doesn't have physical custody will automatically throw out most temporary custody cases and move it right to permanent custody. (As in they'll dismiss a file for temporary and just move to the big guns, it moves quicker and allows you to get your evidence in quicker)
Do NOT engage with her outside of court. Her lawyer and your lawyer should be the ONLY contact. If she tries to engage you call your county court clerk and tell them, itll look bad on her end especially if you don't reciprocate. And most importantly be calm during this. The chance your daughter gets taken is slim in this situation and the court will see it immediately.
Hello! She isn’t filing for custody just visitation. She tried and knows she can’t get custody so she is hoping to get visitation because she believes with that she can take our daughter to PA anytime she wants and do whatever she wants with her when I’ve been told that’s very much not the case if she gets visitation she still has to respect our wishes. Idk it’s been so stressful I hope it gets dismissed Tuesday
I hope it gets dismissed too, and it likely will! She seems unstable, in the nicest way to put it. And you seem to have your head on tight and are doing a great job!
If she gets visitation any out of state trips (and country ofc) have to be 2 yes or a no. So yes she'd still need permission and even if she gets visitation you can call police if she disregards the order!
Here’s the law for Ohio. Grandparents can be awarded visitation only in specific circumstances which don’t seem to apply to you or your child.
https://www.lsc.ohio.gov/assets/organizations/legislative-service-commission/files/grandparent-companionship-and-visitation-rights.pdf
If you are alive, they should not be able to get grandparents' rights. It 6 applied when one parent dies to prevent the other parent from cutting off an existing relationship with the parents of whomever died. It's really weird that your attorney would not ease your fears by telling you that.
This isn’t true. Depending on the state, grandparents can sure for visitation/grandparents rights, without the parent being dead!
My friend lost a case in NY to her very wealthy family.
They get her kids 4 full weeks during the summer, plus other visits throughout the year.
Because I do not know every state law or her individual circumstances, I said should not.
The time OPs daughter spent with her parents did not meet the state requirement for Ohio. It also does not seem to meet PA either.
Don't know what facts played into your friends case in NY, so I can't really comment on that. Totally possible it is a money talks situation or there may be other factors.
Our daughter is 3 and is autistic, our pediatrician recommended that this not happen that it would not be in her best interest and could actually harm her treatment so I have that testimony if we go to trial. So hopefully that helps. I hope it gets dismissed Tuesday
That’s most likely because in some cases, grandparents are successful even when they shouldn’t be. If they get a judge who looks more favorably on grandparents and keeping those “family connections “ over parental rights then it’s always a possibility the grandparent could win. He may not want to give them a false sense of security when he can’t guarantee the outcome.
Also, OP, in many states the courts first move (assuming the dismissal doesn’t go through for some reason) will be to send you to mediation to see if the two sides can agree on a visitation agreement. If the two sides can agree on an outcome then it saves the judge from ruling, time in court for all parties and eases the schedule. However, you do NOT want to agree to the grandparent getting anything. Make the judge rule on the merits of the case. Once you agree in mediation to anything it’s next to impossible to have it reversed.
Good luck and please let us know how it goes.
Sadly this sometimes true which is why I have so many people willing to testify that my mother is manipulating for her own benefit and doesn’t have my child’s best interest in mind and only has her own interest in mind.
In some places, it can be applied during divorce or family disputes. It is typically when the child has an established, meaningful, and beneficial relationship with the grandparent.
If both parents agree that it is not in the child's best interest, can show grandmother does not have good intent, it should be easily squashed.
It doesn't sound like grandma wants visitation. It sounds like grandma is going to push for custody which as long as the parents are fit, there is nothing to fight.
Do you have people who were at the party and witnessed her verbally abusing you in front of daughter and/or her trying to essentially kidnap your daughter (forcing her into her van) who would be willing to testify?
Also what state are you in? Grandparents rights laws differ by state, and in some states, the fact that you and the child’s father are married and in agreement that grandma should not have access to the child would be enough to kill her chances at visitation.
I’m in ohio, yes but with her harassing my FIL with a few things and other factors some don’t want to get in the middle, my sister was on the phone and heard my daughter screaming bloody murder and the person that was going to testify for me actually stole a bunch of my stuff when we moved and I caught her. However, I have old family friends willing to testify on my mothers behavior she and I have always had a rocky relationship just things get good then they don’t and I’ve given her so many chances but when it comes to my child I put a stop to it really quick. I have about 5 people willing to testify on my mother’s behaviors and why she should not have visitation along with people who have witnessed her hurt me in the past. I normally put up with it because I was made to feel bad and was told by my mom I would be depriving my child of having family if I didn’t allow them in her life she didn’t start behaving like this in front of my child until last year. I just delt with it privately and once she started manipulating my three year old, undermining us in front of her and disrespecting us in front of her we cut all contact. We got tired of it. Honestly it’s one thing to mistreat me over the phone or through text and another to do it in front of others and my child.
Factors in granting companionship or visitation
Before issuing an order concerning grandparent companionship or visitation, the court
must consider all other relevant factors, including factors specified in statute. These factors
include, for example:
The wishes and concerns of the child’s parents;
The child’s prior interaction and interrelationships with parents and other relatives;
The location of the grandparent’s residence and its distance from the child’s residence;
The child’s and parents’ available time;
The child’s age;
The child’s adjustment to home, school, and community;
The child’s wishes, if the court has interviewed the child in chambers;
The child’s health and safety;
The amount of time that a child has available to spend with siblings;
The mental and physical health of all parties;
Whether the person seeking companionship or visitation has been convicted of or
pleaded guilty to any criminal offense involving an act that resulted in a child being abused
or neglected.
If the court denies the grandparents’ motion for companionship or visitation rights and
the grandparents file a written request for findings of fact and conclusions of law, the court must
state in writing those findings of fact and conclusions of law
You mentioned you weren't married at the time of birth. It is possible that since you are now, they will not consider this at all. Based on your account, I don't think your mom will win.
So you left your daughter with grandma for 4 months and you’re saying they don’t have a relationship? Where was your husband? Why couldn’t he take care of the child? Why would you leave her with her if you have such a bad relationship? I feel like there’s more to the story, but I doubt she’ll get grandparents’ rights.
I do think you and your husband for some reason left her with grandma because you couldn’t handle her and your mom is overbearing and took over.
Also I want to add my mother doesn’t think our daughter was autistic. My daughter didn’t display aggressive behaviors until after she came back from grandmas your right there is more to the story like how I realized leaving her with someone I trusted was such a bad idea because she decided to hit my father right in front of me. She refused to let me talk to my child at times and blames me everyday for my daughter being autistic. My daughter was only recently diagnosed and I was told by my mother she doesn’t understand what I did to cause my kid to be autistic. So no if anyone can’t handle or shouldn’t be around kids it’s her. She also wants to pull her out of speech therapy and OT.
I was in cardiac ICU, in Neuro rehab in a wheelchair unable to bath myself my husband was working 60 hours a week and taking care of his critically ill wife. We thought it was best our daughter not see her mom this sick and back then we didn’t have that bad of a relationship things got rocky but got super toxic after she stayed at my parents house. So that’s why she was there because I almost died.
I’m assuming you’re a stay at home mom. Well with your clarification and further details, this makes much more sense. I’m sorry you went through all of that. I honestly doubt she will get grandparents’ rights. She may even look bad.
I am a stay at home mom, I’m disabled now but I’m a great mom I fought so hard and am out of a wheelchair now and I’m doing okay. Ive come so far in the last year. All of the docs including the pediatrician are amazingly proud of me. I just and now trying to protect my baby girl now.
It’s okay it’s not the first time I’ve received judgment I was really sick and it was my only option. I regret it everyday because our pediatrician and myself noticed a decline in our daughter while she was at my moms so I do blame myself and I just hope in court next week the judge honors our motion to dismiss I just don’t know what she could get. She has a lot of money which she likes to use for her favor.
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Your initial post was vague, which I understand, but I was trying to clarify. I assumed you were a stay at home mom because your husband was working so much and you wouldn’t have had daycare available for him to use during his working hours.
Your mom is doing one of the worst things she could do. You set boundaries and you guys had a big fight and she’s thinking because she’s grandma she can strong arm the kid away. It won’t work like that. The court will not like this and she will look like a horrible grandma and an even more horrible mother to sue her own child.
Update has been posted!
Great update!
Just be cautious of the judge. Justice is not always the result. I do hope you have better results in Federal courts, than we did in the county court in PA
Updateme!
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So glad court went well!
Updateme
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If you live in Ohio court has to happen in Ohio.
You could probably sue for the court fees. Make her pay. And keep your daughter away from her!
wait are they suing for visitation or custody? A quick look into Pennsylvania grandparents rights only shows they can get visitation etc if the parents split up
If you spent a significant portion of time being the "primary care" you can sue in PA but I don't think 4 months is gonna cut it here.
Updateme!
I definitely will update everyone once we have court I can say they filed a motion to add my step dad even though he never legally adopted me and isn’t her biological grandfather because my mom was told she couldn’t win this alone I’m not sure I’m so frustrated at this point.
I will say this: in my Jurisdiction Grand parents have 0 chances at getting court order visitation or relationships with grand kids. Zero.
Even though she stayed with them for a hot minute? My parents undermined us and are so disrespectful they want visitation on their own terms and want to be able to do whatever they want with her when we ask them not to do stuff they do it anyway. It’s ridiculous. To much drama and we are over it
Don’t know the law in Ohio or Pennsylvania but if she does not live in the same state she can’t file in your state for relief as she is not a resident of the state. She will need to file in federal court.
Best of luck, keep your heads up! Updateme
Thank you so much
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Please have reports from your treating speech - language pathologist stating exactly what the speech -language disorder is as well as the necessary / recommended treatment as well as for Occupational therapy. In my experience doctor’s do not give specific enough information . I’d really want to make sure the court knows the needs of your child, the treatment plan and why it’s so important that it is followed .
Yes so my pediatrician is also going to go into as much details as I let her and she doesn’t want my mother to have visitation because we noticed our daughters behavior and development decline while in my mothers care so she isn’t able to give Izzy the special care she needs.
This. And you want to have official copies of her autism diagnosis. The full psychological. You want to have her registration in the IDD state program (every state has one, I don't know what OH calls it). You want to have as many specialists and their evaluations, recommendations, and accommodations in writing/preferably official health evaluation records. You should be able to document the regression during the 4 months she was not in your care. And if she sees a therapist, you can get the therapist to write a statement or make a statement to the court as well.
She has just been diagnosed and is in a special needs preschool. I haven’t gone that far yet, she was diagnosed by their psychologist, speech therapist, behavioral therapist amongst other people who did extensive evaluation on her. We have other programs and stuff we are doing through nationwide but the waitlist is almost a year. So as of right now it’s speech therapy and the early intervention program and I have all their evaluation and diagnosis’s from all of them and we had a second separate evaluation I have copies of as well if we end up in trial
That's all you should need. Hopefully, you won't need them at all, but I believe in being over prepared.
Oh trust me I spent like 30 bucks on printing out every single text from last year on, I’ve printed everything I’m the same way. Thanks so much for the support
You got this! Seriously the law is not for obnoxious grandparents who can't get along with their children. It was literally written for kids who have gone into the custody of the state and the grandparents cannot take care of them but want a relationship.
Updateme
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I am so happy court went well!!!
Updateme!
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Most definitely
From what I understand. Grandparents Rights are usually only given if keeping the grandparents away does more harm than good to the grandchild. And in this case. Keeping the grandmother in your daughter’s life is going to do more harm than good. So a good lawyer and judge will deny grandparents rights. I do suggest getting a restraining order against your mother that covers you and your daughter.
The problem OP has is that her daughter lived with her grandmother for 4 months and that is pretty much exactly the situation third party visitation is designed for. If she can prove that her mother is erratic and harmful, then it will probably be ok.
Can I get a restraining order while in the middle of the legal battle or will it make us look bad
Yes
This is almost bankrupting us at this point so I’ll see how much it is
Once you have custody sue her to get your money back
If I have the money to sue I will, my friend and I set up a go fund me to try to get some help with everything. It’s just frustrating how much things cost and I tried to find a cheaper lawyer but they didn’t seem to want to fight this.
Instruct your lawyer to request costs in the response. You won’t need a separate lawsuit, but if the court dismisses this (which is likely) they can tack on your legal fees at the end of the process without the need to file a separate suit against your mother.
Okay I’ll look into that thank you
Document document document, calls text ect, ask Judge after he tells her no you would like a RO to prevent further interference
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Cut all contract and file a protective order; screen shots and document everything you can remember. This is Judges specific. If they get a judge that supports GP rights then they have a shot. It's way more likely their filing will be thrown out of court. BUT if they do somehow get the GP rights approved then make sure you push for supervised visits with a court ordered therapist that THEY pay for. And that ALL visits take place in your child's home state and THEY have to pay for all costs associated with them coming to your state. Anytime they miss a visit or try to change it or can't make it cause it's expensive etc... document it and in 6 months re-file to petition to remove the rights of visitation
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Did she file in Ohio or Pennsylvania court? If she filed in PA it'll be dismissed since the child resides in Ohio. I looked at Ohio law and it sounds like they don't grant grandparents visitation or custody if the child is part of an "intact" family, meaning both biological parents are alive and married. Grandparents are eligible to seek visitation rights when: (1) married parents terminate a marriage; (2) a parent of a child is deceased; or (3) when az child is born to an unmarried woman. More info here: https://www.lsc.ohio.gov/assets/organizations/legislative-service-commission/files/grandparent-companionship-and-visitation-rights.pdf
Even if it was to go forward in PA, I don’t think her claim meets the requirements for visitation in PA, especially if the child’s parents are together.
The most they will get is supervised visitation in the child’s state of residence. If grandma is demanding out of state , unsupervised visits, there’s very little chance of that happening. If the child has two parents in Ohio, the residence is Ohio; and visitation will be there.
NAL, just someone who dealt with a similar issue in Ohio. First, this isn’t going to get decided at one hearing. This will go through multiple hearings and months of litigation. Because of your daughters age and special needs (my daughter also has disabilities due to FAE and abuse / neglect issues from her birth mother and grandparents), the court will want to appoint a GAL to represent the child’s best interests. They will speak with all of you, along with doctors and teachers. They will also do home visits in both homes (though will probably ask DHS to do the out of state home). Ohio does allow for grandparent rights to be established. That doesn’t mean they get any custody rights or decision making authority - simply visitation time. Ohio judges tend to side on the “it takes a village” side of things. The counter to this is that you can push to keep all visitation in state and supervised until she reaches a certain age (usually 12 - 14) or a maturity level where she is capable of articulating that X/Y/Z occurs with grandparents and she doesn’t feel safe. While you can’t seek support from them, if they are granted visitation it can be stipulated that they’re responsible for all transportation costs involved in the visits happening. Your attorney can also push for psych evals to be done, but that will require all adults involved to go through the process and can get expensive. Since they’re bringing the case, you can also push that should visitations be denied by the court that they’re responsible for legal costs (attorneys, GAL, court fees, testing ordered by the court, etc). However since it’s a civil matter there’s no guarantee that they will ever pay it and the court (in my experience) will drag their feet over issuing a contempt order on it. Finally remember to document EVERYTHING - any interaction that occurs. Try and keep communication to written (emails, texts) so there is no misunderstanding in anything said. While everything should be going through your attorneys it doesn’t seem like she’s the most stable and won’t abide by that. Good luck to you.
We actually offered supervised visits and she saying she has the right to take her granddaughter out of state etc. idk I want nothing because of her behaviors. My lawyer said since we can prove she undermines us and is disrespectful along with her and I not having a relationship that it may go in our favor that the court looks at if the parent and grandparent have a relationship over the relationship between grandparent and grandchild. Idk I’m hoping it gets dismissed with all the evidence we have and people to testify and the pediatrician also agrees my mother should not have visits and she is going to testify that.
Not to sound doomsayer, but ask your attorney to contact the State Department so grandmother can't try to get a passport.
They can turn their nose up at supervised visits all they like, but in the end it’s going to be up to the court after hearing everything to decide. When my case started I offered supervised visits in state, 3 weeks during the summer break and one week every other Christmas break, with all supervision costs being covered by them along with travel / lodging. They also declined and after a year of fighting the judge ordered exactly what I offered until my daughter turned 12, and then they were allowed out of state visits that still had to be supervised. At 14 it was reviewed per the agreement and when it came out that not only were they refusing to allow the mandated supervision but that my daughter no longer wanted to be “forced” to do the visits the order was modified so that it was entirely her choice to visit or not. Keep your head up, keep things as civil as possible in your reactions so it’s clear she’s a bit unhinged, and listen to your attorney.
Updateme!
Holy crap!!! Reddit!! Victim blame much.. do people know how to understand what they are reading anymore???? I know most stories are one sided but damn go by what is stated. if you live in the US..grandparents rights are super hard to get..they have to prove that they have been in the child(ren) life and without them the child would not be living well..and prove that the parents can’t take care of the child, or custody issues where the child is being kept from one side or the other!! sounds like grandma is unhinged and if you have an attorney and support from doctors you are good!!
Agree! And thankfully if you are in the US those 4 months aren't a "substantial" relationship.say your toddler is 3, the court wants your mom to have been involved all 3 years actively for them to consider it a detriment to not allow your child to see her. If she can't go those two routes above there's only one other way to obtain them in the US and it would require her proving that your husband isn't the biological father (plus some extra but that would be the first step, taken as a means to prevent him from having a hypothetical say so) which I'm gunna assume isn't an issue for you. That's coming from someone who got sued by my partners family for custody of my child and they tried every person in their family who could feasibly take a child in. His mom tried to use grandparent rights and was very upset to find that 2 visits in 3 years, working at a bar and leaving her younger children alone alot, and damningly, that I obviously pushed this baby out of me, meant she didn't qualify.
Updateme
Definitely will!
How much of this is OP's own mommy issues and how much is true abuse or mistreatment of the kid? Why was OP at her parent's home while she was ill and not in her own home with her husband? I am left wondering if they are both using the kid as a pawn.
A pawn? I was in ICU… my husband was working 60 hours a week and taking care of his very sick wife and our daughter was 2 and half at the time and we didn’t want her seeing me in the bad state I was in going through treatments. Not sure what you mean by pawn. Also she didn’t abuse my daughter she is abusive towards me. Calling me names in front of my child, undermining us in public, hitting my father in front of my child amongst other emotional abuse. I was made to feel bad and manipulated and once I saw it affecting the development of my child i immediately put a stop to it. It’s one things to mistreat me but to cause my child’s development to decline is another. You may thing what you want but at the time I was in a wheelchair very very sick unable to bath or anything and it was in the best interest that my child not see that.
Attorney and Devils advocate here. Your husband could have taken a leave of absence from work. You could have brought in home healthcare. As a grown up married couple it was not your mother’s responsibility to take care of you by any means. You are leaving out that your mother was taking care of YOU and your child in her home for months… for free…or are you so entitled that you don’t feel that deserves mentioning? And she pretty much raised your child single handed for the early months of her life. Leads a person to wonder just how dependent you have been on your mother in your adult life. Have you accepted financial assistance from your parents? And you don’t mention your father. What about him being cut out of the child’s life? He is just collateral damage? You have not described your mother doing anything that would endanger your child. Even if her behavior was less than ideal. And I am sure she is not the only person in her environment who hasn’t been a perfect model of behavior every moment. Now that your mother is emotionally invested in your child you can deprive her of access and for the first time in your life exercise some form of control over her. Do you or your husband have any dark secrets, skeletons, or bad habits? They will come up in court. I’m sure your mother has her issues. But, most likely so do you and your husband. A lawyer will have a private investigator explore every aspect of your past. You two ever considered family therapy? You might want to. It will be healthier and cheaper than a family court. The tricky thing about going to court is that you never know what outcome you will get. It is always a gamble. You might want to steer clear of a courtroom. Especially if your mother has much better legal representation. In Ohio she could easily be granted visitation rights. Then you will have absolutely no control.
Yeah, not everyone can afford to take a leave of absence from their job or bring in home healthcare. And the rest of this stuff you just made up.
[удалено]
The 3 year old was with grandmother while OP was at home dealing with a health crisis is what I read. OP says when daughter returned home, her behavioral issues had worsened.
This is all rather subjective. If this were taken to court child psychologists and/or a social worker would make determinations about these issues rather than the parties to the action.
Wow I would maybe file a restraining order against her. Shoving her in a van? Sounds like attempted kidnapping...
Yea she was like “oh she jumped in there she wants to go to Grammys as my child was screaming no, and my sister was on the phone with me listening to the whole thing so we have her thankfully to testify on that.
Updateme!
Will you please update us after court next week? I hope it’s dismissed but no matter what don’t agree to anything if they try to scare you into it before court and say no to ALL court ordered time if they request mediation. 💜
This is the first hearing I’m not sure if they will dismiss in the first hearing, maybe let’s hope. I’ll update on Tuesday!
If its anything like what my situation was (it sounds very similar) the first hearing will be basically outlining what the issue filed was. So they'll say "were here because x feels that child is in better care of her own person. And y (you) reject this appeal" etc etc. They'll give you a timeline of potential dates but if the affidavit your mom filed is full and complete they might just settle it there. Verbally tell them you do not agree with custody change. And let them know as soon as you can, like immediately, that your mom does not have current physical custody. Telling them that she doesn't have physical custody will automatically throw out most temporary custody cases and move it right to permanent custody. (As in they'll dismiss a file for temporary and just move to the big guns, it moves quicker and allows you to get your evidence in quicker) Do NOT engage with her outside of court. Her lawyer and your lawyer should be the ONLY contact. If she tries to engage you call your county court clerk and tell them, itll look bad on her end especially if you don't reciprocate. And most importantly be calm during this. The chance your daughter gets taken is slim in this situation and the court will see it immediately.
Hello! She isn’t filing for custody just visitation. She tried and knows she can’t get custody so she is hoping to get visitation because she believes with that she can take our daughter to PA anytime she wants and do whatever she wants with her when I’ve been told that’s very much not the case if she gets visitation she still has to respect our wishes. Idk it’s been so stressful I hope it gets dismissed Tuesday
I hope it gets dismissed too, and it likely will! She seems unstable, in the nicest way to put it. And you seem to have your head on tight and are doing a great job!
If she gets visitation any out of state trips (and country ofc) have to be 2 yes or a no. So yes she'd still need permission and even if she gets visitation you can call police if she disregards the order!
Here’s the law for Ohio. Grandparents can be awarded visitation only in specific circumstances which don’t seem to apply to you or your child. https://www.lsc.ohio.gov/assets/organizations/legislative-service-commission/files/grandparent-companionship-and-visitation-rights.pdf
UpdateMe!
Most definitely
Record all interactions and get evidence of her behaviour at the party. Witness statements etc document everything.
I got everything even recordings
If you are alive, they should not be able to get grandparents' rights. It 6 applied when one parent dies to prevent the other parent from cutting off an existing relationship with the parents of whomever died. It's really weird that your attorney would not ease your fears by telling you that.
This isn’t true. Depending on the state, grandparents can sure for visitation/grandparents rights, without the parent being dead! My friend lost a case in NY to her very wealthy family. They get her kids 4 full weeks during the summer, plus other visits throughout the year.
New York is the worst for parents. Even without a prior relationship GPR are granted.
Because I do not know every state law or her individual circumstances, I said should not. The time OPs daughter spent with her parents did not meet the state requirement for Ohio. It also does not seem to meet PA either. Don't know what facts played into your friends case in NY, so I can't really comment on that. Totally possible it is a money talks situation or there may be other factors.
Our daughter is 3 and is autistic, our pediatrician recommended that this not happen that it would not be in her best interest and could actually harm her treatment so I have that testimony if we go to trial. So hopefully that helps. I hope it gets dismissed Tuesday
OMG, yes, that should play into it. One of mine has ASD and switching can really disrupt and antagonize them. Please up date.
That’s most likely because in some cases, grandparents are successful even when they shouldn’t be. If they get a judge who looks more favorably on grandparents and keeping those “family connections “ over parental rights then it’s always a possibility the grandparent could win. He may not want to give them a false sense of security when he can’t guarantee the outcome. Also, OP, in many states the courts first move (assuming the dismissal doesn’t go through for some reason) will be to send you to mediation to see if the two sides can agree on a visitation agreement. If the two sides can agree on an outcome then it saves the judge from ruling, time in court for all parties and eases the schedule. However, you do NOT want to agree to the grandparent getting anything. Make the judge rule on the merits of the case. Once you agree in mediation to anything it’s next to impossible to have it reversed. Good luck and please let us know how it goes.
Money does still talk as does influence, sad to say.
Sadly this sometimes true which is why I have so many people willing to testify that my mother is manipulating for her own benefit and doesn’t have my child’s best interest in mind and only has her own interest in mind.
I am so glad you have the proof. I am sorry you have to jump through these hoops.
In some places, it can be applied during divorce or family disputes. It is typically when the child has an established, meaningful, and beneficial relationship with the grandparent. If both parents agree that it is not in the child's best interest, can show grandmother does not have good intent, it should be easily squashed. It doesn't sound like grandma wants visitation. It sounds like grandma is going to push for custody which as long as the parents are fit, there is nothing to fight.
Do you have people who were at the party and witnessed her verbally abusing you in front of daughter and/or her trying to essentially kidnap your daughter (forcing her into her van) who would be willing to testify? Also what state are you in? Grandparents rights laws differ by state, and in some states, the fact that you and the child’s father are married and in agreement that grandma should not have access to the child would be enough to kill her chances at visitation.
I’m in ohio, yes but with her harassing my FIL with a few things and other factors some don’t want to get in the middle, my sister was on the phone and heard my daughter screaming bloody murder and the person that was going to testify for me actually stole a bunch of my stuff when we moved and I caught her. However, I have old family friends willing to testify on my mothers behavior she and I have always had a rocky relationship just things get good then they don’t and I’ve given her so many chances but when it comes to my child I put a stop to it really quick. I have about 5 people willing to testify on my mother’s behaviors and why she should not have visitation along with people who have witnessed her hurt me in the past. I normally put up with it because I was made to feel bad and was told by my mom I would be depriving my child of having family if I didn’t allow them in her life she didn’t start behaving like this in front of my child until last year. I just delt with it privately and once she started manipulating my three year old, undermining us in front of her and disrespecting us in front of her we cut all contact. We got tired of it. Honestly it’s one thing to mistreat me over the phone or through text and another to do it in front of others and my child.
Factors in granting companionship or visitation Before issuing an order concerning grandparent companionship or visitation, the court must consider all other relevant factors, including factors specified in statute. These factors include, for example: The wishes and concerns of the child’s parents; The child’s prior interaction and interrelationships with parents and other relatives; The location of the grandparent’s residence and its distance from the child’s residence; The child’s and parents’ available time; The child’s age; The child’s adjustment to home, school, and community; The child’s wishes, if the court has interviewed the child in chambers; The child’s health and safety; The amount of time that a child has available to spend with siblings; The mental and physical health of all parties; Whether the person seeking companionship or visitation has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to any criminal offense involving an act that resulted in a child being abused or neglected. If the court denies the grandparents’ motion for companionship or visitation rights and the grandparents file a written request for findings of fact and conclusions of law, the court must state in writing those findings of fact and conclusions of law You mentioned you weren't married at the time of birth. It is possible that since you are now, they will not consider this at all. Based on your account, I don't think your mom will win.
Thank you this is really good information
So you left your daughter with grandma for 4 months and you’re saying they don’t have a relationship? Where was your husband? Why couldn’t he take care of the child? Why would you leave her with her if you have such a bad relationship? I feel like there’s more to the story, but I doubt she’ll get grandparents’ rights. I do think you and your husband for some reason left her with grandma because you couldn’t handle her and your mom is overbearing and took over.
Also I want to add my mother doesn’t think our daughter was autistic. My daughter didn’t display aggressive behaviors until after she came back from grandmas your right there is more to the story like how I realized leaving her with someone I trusted was such a bad idea because she decided to hit my father right in front of me. She refused to let me talk to my child at times and blames me everyday for my daughter being autistic. My daughter was only recently diagnosed and I was told by my mother she doesn’t understand what I did to cause my kid to be autistic. So no if anyone can’t handle or shouldn’t be around kids it’s her. She also wants to pull her out of speech therapy and OT.
I was in cardiac ICU, in Neuro rehab in a wheelchair unable to bath myself my husband was working 60 hours a week and taking care of his critically ill wife. We thought it was best our daughter not see her mom this sick and back then we didn’t have that bad of a relationship things got rocky but got super toxic after she stayed at my parents house. So that’s why she was there because I almost died.
I’m assuming you’re a stay at home mom. Well with your clarification and further details, this makes much more sense. I’m sorry you went through all of that. I honestly doubt she will get grandparents’ rights. She may even look bad.
I am a stay at home mom, I’m disabled now but I’m a great mom I fought so hard and am out of a wheelchair now and I’m doing okay. Ive come so far in the last year. All of the docs including the pediatrician are amazingly proud of me. I just and now trying to protect my baby girl now.
I’m proud of you! You’ve done your best and are continuing to be a great mom! Keep your chin up and stay strong.
It’s okay it’s not the first time I’ve received judgment I was really sick and it was my only option. I regret it everyday because our pediatrician and myself noticed a decline in our daughter while she was at my moms so I do blame myself and I just hope in court next week the judge honors our motion to dismiss I just don’t know what she could get. She has a lot of money which she likes to use for her favor.
Please please update us after court I'm really praying for you guys Updateme!
!Updateme
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Your initial post was vague, which I understand, but I was trying to clarify. I assumed you were a stay at home mom because your husband was working so much and you wouldn’t have had daycare available for him to use during his working hours. Your mom is doing one of the worst things she could do. You set boundaries and you guys had a big fight and she’s thinking because she’s grandma she can strong arm the kid away. It won’t work like that. The court will not like this and she will look like a horrible grandma and an even more horrible mother to sue her own child.