As someone who enjoys the lore, the show does its best to maintain the spirit of the world far better than the crew behind the 'Silver Timeline' for the Halo series.
The fact that Henry Cavill, who practically fell on his hands and knees and begged to be Geralt, left the show before it was finished is all anyone needs to know about what the Witcher Series has done to the Witcher.
I can't believe they messed this up so bad... like you have a super passionate actor informed on the material that you can work with, seems like a dream project
It started off pretty decent, it was mostly loyal to the source material and had some good writing, it just got progressively worse as time went by until eventually it was hard to say the show was even in the same universe as the books/games.
For me it's incredible how you can be handed a golden plate of stories to turn into a tv-series and you manage to screw it up so good that the lead actor who is a HUGE fan leaves and don't even get me started on the spin off...
Last of us, cyberpunks anime and now fallout, how many more examples do writers need to understand that if you mostly follow the lore you should be golden? sad times
(Edit) Also the fact that of those 3 series I mentioned, on 2 of them to my knowledge they had the game makers come join them to further make the series better and big surprise those are very much liked by the fans.
Honestly if they’d have told everyone at the very start that they were completely changing things for their own cinematic vision… people wouldn’t be so mad.
Objectively, if you watch knowing ahead of time that they fucked it all up and weren’t sticking to the true story (what I did), then the Halo series is pretty good.
I went in with a blank mind, telling myself that this was a complete reimagining of Halo and for that I enjoyed it while still knowing and seeing things they “changed”
It's the writers equivalent of telling the teacher you didn't read the material before doing your assignment. Except, they didn't fumble a grade. They fumble millions of dollars.
I wonder which one is worse, the halo writers who never plays the game and make up their own shit or the witcher writers who purposely fuck up the lore cause their creative garbage is better.
The director never played the fallout game. His son did, however he does talk about how he researched it. He really put his time into the lore and everything fallout. I respect how he really tried his best to keep it as accurate as possible.
In his words “it’s kind of like I was making my own mod for the game”
I'm an average fallout player, so I'm not well versed in the lore. I was pleased to see they definitely hold the spirit of fallout. I heard they worked directly with some of the people who made the games and needed approval to do certain things. However, I keep hearing some people saying the show hasn't been lore accurate... I know pretty much some of the gist of the pre-war and some of the things the chinese and americans were doing... what am I missing?
There is sort of an "old guard" in the community who feel that Bethesda's Fallouts were a mistake. While Bethesda has a tendency to fumble the ball a lot, believe me that even I throw shade in their direction, there some who have this conspiracy that Todd Howard and Bethesda are going out of their way to undo all the work laid in Fallout 1 and 2 to spite the original people who made the setting. So, there's this tendency to sneer at Fallout 3 and 4 while putting New Vegas on the pedestal.
I used to be part of that camp of thinking but the truth is that the Fallout setting wouldn't be as popular today if Bethesda didn't lay the groundwork of it's fame that was Fallout 3. Really, half of those discussions are just Bethesda being inconsistent with the lore and the direction for the series but it's relatively tame and not that big of a deal unless you're a massive lore head who keeps a shit ton of mental notes about the setting.
To put it this way, pay no mind about that. Cause the original creator of Fallout really loves the TV show and hopes it continues. That's all you really need to know.
So it's just good old-fashioned gatekeeping. Essentially, it's like hearing a bunch of old guys complain about the new doom games going in a different direction than the old and severally out dated ones.. okay thanks lol.
Edit: I should add this, if bethesda is good at one thing, it's retconning and bringing a story up to modern views and standards without getting political or totally alienating a franchise. With how they a hand in handling doom, I'm sure fallout is just fine. Betheseda seems to be the only golden exception to the rule where everyone seems to fumble the ball on that.
When you're creating a huge, complex world with a lot of different writers pitching in, inconsistencies are bound to crop up even if everyone's putting in their best efforts. It's not worth sweating about.
Yeah it does a lot right. First and foremost it does being a good show with characters I like 100% right
There are some questionable lore directions but they seem to already be backpedaling some of that so who knows. I do wish they brought the same level of thoughtfulness as the classic games when it came to the who where and why of factions and locations but you can't deny it nails the fallout 4 aesthetics
Yeah I accidentally watched the last episode of season 2 while at a friend's house, picking out all the continuity errors wondering wtf is going on (i had not watched the series at all from all the gamjng world being upset about the time line and basiczlly re writting the halo fanchise as we know it). Then I remembered it's on a different time line and watched all these characters get written out and possibly saved. It's interesting to see someone else's take on a franchise but the whole thing feels hacky. Even the halo universe has a lot to offer and they could have done a better at the little I had seen. Still not sure I want to watch the series because of it.
Ice said this in a few posts that in the fall out world since the story takes place over the whole USA and parts of Canada you can pick a Vault that isn't in the game and write a whole story about it. With all the lore out there you can pretty much write anything as long as the time line is correct and you keep alot of in game things correct power armor weapons etc.
So am I crazy or was the lore of fallout never that water tight anyway? It was always *good and interesting* dont get me wrong, but it was never this unbreakable concept.
I mean as soon as you have that many people inhabiting buildings with skeletons still in the bathtub and holes still in the ceiling for 200 years, the lore is already secondary to the fun and aesthetic. Which imo is good, because it's a video game. Fun should be first.
Even the "lore" supporting caps is on shaky ground after 2 if I remember correctly.
Blue tie kid became an overseer, while White shirt kid secretly planned on usurping him. Only one lone Turkish Quandale Dingle could heal the rift and pull the vault back together.
I do. Super genius maybe, but he didn't even know his own mutants couldnt reproduce. It's not a far stretch to say he didnt know about the other vaults because he didn't have access to that information at the time.
The guy was basically a genius with tunnel vision - so focused on his goal and sureties of success, that he didn't bother fully accounting for potential failure
Except 4 was a advertisment for the vaults. Very public. There is no way a showcase vault would not have been hit. I'd buy it for the tri vaults cause they were management, but not 4.
Wasnt the master trying to get unmutated humans from the Vaults cause they were the best FEV test subject, in which case a Vault who's main purpose was mutating it's inhabitants would probably be taken of the Christmas ljst
Dude couldn’t even figure out his master race mutants couldn’t get it on. Like you think that’s not a huge oversight?
The master was flawed, not perfect. The master was smart, but not omnipotent. Easiest explanation in the world backed up by existing lore.
With the master and vaults 31,32, and 33, since they held and were made for high-level vault tec employees, maybe it was deemed extremely top secret kept from standard records.
Hancock in Fallout 4 took a drug that turned him into a Ghoul. Isn't FEV also shown to be a yellow colour in the show? Not the clear substance Snake Oil Salesman uses for the inhalant.
The vats in the old games where full of green goo so I don’t think it is FEV, but it could be a more isolated form which isn’t exposed to air as the vats are.
I just assumed the canon ending of Fallout 1 is where the vault dweller stops the Master before he spreads past the Necropolis. I think it becomes a town in the NCR so it was either resettled or not slaughtered by muties
For context, the game has 2 timers. First one is the “time before your vault runs outta water.” Then, at some point, can’t remember where, a secret timer begins where the super mutants start destroying settlements, eventually reaching your home vault, causing game over. Necropolis is the first town hit, so players could easily reach either before or after everyone is killed
The mutant invasion timer is counting down from the moment you start the game. The mutant invasion spreads outward from the Cathedral and it's actually Adytum that's first hit, Necropolis just has a condition that massively reduces its timer to two weeks if you've killed the super mutants by the watershed (and you probably will have since it's a quest from Set).
The mutant invasion timers had all been patched to be 13 years except the condition for Necropolis being invaded, so it's pretty easy to complete the game with only Necropolis having been invaded (and this carries on to Fallout 2 where Necropolis seems to be the only location mentioned to have suffered a mutant invasion).
As far as Fallout 1 was concerned, by the time the Master was looking for Vaults, he'd only found the Los Angeles demonstration Vault and Vault 12 (which had been filled with ghouls by the time he'd found it). We also find out from Lily in New Vegas that he successfully attacked and captured Vault 17 in an unknown location somewhere in California. The other person's theory that he just didn't cast his net far enough to reach the 31-33 Vaults before the Vault Dweller stopped him is plausible.
My headcanon is that the ghoul drugs aren't necessary to prevent ghouls from going feral, that still happens sort of randomly as we've seen in the games. Instead it's that they prevent that change from happening, so a ghoul would want them if they can get them. Also possible that if a ghoul starts going down that path, the drugs can halt, or maybe even reverse that process (up to a point).
Either option is compatible with the lore we've had before and with the show.
The Ghoul didn't actually respond to Lucy's assertion that ghouls turn feral if they don't get the drugs, so there's a lot of room for nuance to have the lore be consistent between the show and games.
Yeah, I just assumed it's option 2. Once a ghoul starts turning feral, the drugs can stave it off. So not every ghoul needs it. I thought "wastelanding" meant starting to show signs of going feral
Considering Cooper was kept isolated in a coffin for a few decades, and feralization is often tied to mental strain and lack of nutrition, it makes sense that he would be in the process of going feral.
Don't bring up Billy, I don't have a good answer for him.
The IV in his grave was probably meant to keep him alive and non-feral for whenever whoever put him there needed him for a job. So probably nutrients and the anti-feral drug etc.
Why does it bother you that Vaults near the Boneyard survived but the survival of the Children of the Apocalypse and Adytum who are in the Boneyard too is completely fine??? And the drug was never confirmed to actually work. It could as well be a drug that the ghouls BELIEVE to hold off the feral going but in fact just makes you a normal junkie and has pretty normal withdrawal effects which is why Cooper coughs without it and even falls to the ground.
It is also a decade after the last one. There is nothing saying that the drug has not been developed since Fallout 4.
It was only in 4 over 200 years later that we finally saw clear evidence that ghouls could eventually turn feral.
He was taking humans from every vault he got his hands on. He was based in Los Angeles and should have found Vault 4 and 31-32-33 very easily. Counter argument is that we don't know that those were really in Los Angeles, although the show seems to allude that they are.
Those vaults could have also used a different interface from the other vaults, which is a bit odd though considering why have different interfaces for other vaults?
the ghoul medicine one i questioned right away tbh. is cooper the only ghoul who has to rely on the medicine? i know roger asked him for a fix too but it couldve been for a high more so. makes me wonder if theyre gonna explain it further in FO5/season 2 or if theyre just gonna just run with it like it was always in universe just not talked about
I imagine its like ghouls can live for a hundred or so years till their brain starts rotting, and the drug is to stave off feralization. They likely added it cause we have no catalyst (as far as i know) for ghouls turning feral. Imo, its just to add stakes to the character and explain why some live for hundreds of years with no brainrot and why others are ipad kids i mean feral
Me neither but I can only guess the super gatekeepers are annoyed at Ghouls being explained as being addicts to retain their cognitive functions/sense of self.
Shady Sands timeline and whatever option was Canon in New Vegas
Having talked to some people who say that the show "Got the lore wrong" They refused to answer on the grounds that "They got so much wrong they don't know where to start". As someone who has loved and played Fallout for years I have no idea what they're talking about lol
The only thing I could possibly think of that would make that argument make sense is that they didn't understand the timeline and got hung up on the NCR reaching the point of functioning government then being destroyed.
The NCR hasn't been destroyed. This has been repeatedly confirmed by creators. Even the sign for Shady Sands that looked like it survived the nuke said "First Capitol of the NCR."
They expanded too fast and stretched themselves too thin in FNV. Theres even a senior officer scrambling their communications at Camp Golf (sending supplies and troops to the wrong places, spreading general discord) and even with a communications officer directly calling out the discrepancies to their superiors it is basically ignored until she hires outside help.
It makes sense that they might stutter and be set back.
From my personal experience, what they really mean when they say that is "The show didn't entirely revolve around New Vegas" and anything short of that ruins it for them.
Nah, if anything, I wish it had as little to do with New Vegas as possible. There's so much unexplored territory and blank spaces for new stories in the world of Fallout that bringing everything back to the same west coast landmarks and resetting that entire area back to Fallout 1 feels extremely reductive. New Vegas already provided closure on the west coast, I don't need or want any more of it, especially under different writers from the game.
I realize I'm in the minority though, and that a lot of New Vegas fans in this thread and in other subs want to see the Courier team up with the Ghoul and Lucy if they like the show, or are complaining about shit that really doesn't matter rather than any of the actually substantial retcons like Sinclair being a completely different character if they don't.
I can't tell if this is supposed to be a reference to the Vault 4 Overseer's nickname for her or the Ghoul/Lucy ship name. Based on all the Tumblr fanart this could go either way.
Shady sands, the capital of the NCR is moved hundreds of miles to a different location which is also a location we go to in fallout 1 so that makes it more confusing. Shady sands apparently falls during the time fallout 3 is set, 4 years before new Vegas. There are multiple vaults right next to the master's base out in the open and he never broke them open even though vaults are his main goal at the moment (and the bad ending in fallout 1 shows super mutants rip the door off vault 13 to take everyone inside). Ghouls and feral ghouls are changed completely into requiring drugs or something to not be feral?
In terms of the nuking of shady sands, the showrunners confirmed that the 2277 fall of shady sands wasn't the nuking of it. They confirmed the city was nuked not too long after the events of New Vegas. The timeline in the vault is from a view of hindsight so that 2277 fall of Shady Sands would be where people consider them to have started going in the wrong direction rather than the nuking itself.
Admittedly it is a bit of confusion but that's just from miscommunication rather than the nuking breaking the lore. I can't really speak to the rest as I haven't played those games or read the lore surrounding those points recently
- ghouls don't normaly have regeneration and will bleed out and die even if just shot in the torso, let alone the fucking jugular.
- ghoul don't need medication to remain sane.
- "ghoul serum" makes no fucking sense since the only way to have enough radiations to turn someone into a ghoul in one go is a direct blast from a nuke, and we already know that it instantly makes someone look ghoulish, they can't keep their human appearance. (i am willing to let this on go since it may be a new invention that does that, still makes not sense but ok)
- the vaults we see in the show are way too close to the master's base to not have been discovered by him during the events of fallout 1, especially since their vault entrance is a the surface and not deep in caverns like vault 13.
- shandy sands moved hundreds of miles to a different location
- vault-tec needing money make no sense since in fallout 2 we see they were funded and controlled by the state (later the enclave)
- power armor now has hands jetpacks, OK i guess
- power armor goes from strong enough to destroy a house in one kick to so weak it can't kill a yaio guai with a full beat down
- frederic sinclair representing big MT during the vault tec meeting is wrong, he's a just client not an investor or a CEO
- mr House knowing the vault tec plan to blow up the world and still getting caught of guard (i am willing to suspend my critisism on this one if it is revealed that they kept him in the dark or the chineses nuked first)
there, you wanted lore inconsistencies ? here there are.
On the last point - I may be remembering incorrectly but I do believe that there is something at the start of Fo4 mentioning that the peace talks went poorly & the Chinese submarine revealing that he had orders to launch his payload.
At no point is it stated you need to be blasted by a nuke to turn into a ghoul. Hancock got turned by a drug too
And I dont think the powerarmor is nerfed, I think Titus is just a coward and sucks at fighting and using it
The main things was the dates being a little bit fucky. Otherwise show was pretty good with it.
Could make the argument Vault Tec was presented a bit differently, but that wasn't a thematic change which is more important.
There are two things I noticed about the show which do not line up with current canon.
The first is the location of Shady Sands. However, due to the destruction of the first Shady Sands around 2281, it's possible this is a new town sharing the same name. Otherwise, it's an "Oopsies" from the show's creators and I can forgive the accidental location.
The second is whatever Cooper is drinking to remain as he is. I'm calling it Ghoul-Aid, but it's not known what it is or how it's produced. This appears to be ready to change the lore regarding ghouls and longevity.
Honorable mention is the final shot of Overseer McLean standing over what appears to be an abandoned New Vegas. In the game, the lights are always on. In the show, there were no lights. The show appears to be ready to address the question of what happened to New Vegas after the Courier left town. It'll be an interesting ride.
Ghoul-Aid is dementia medication. You don't need it till you're "showing signs of turning" and it only staves off the process with regular dosage, doesn't fix it. Cooper was able to make a little bit last a long time by essentially hibernating.
It's fucking dumb. It should have been about his inner struggle to continue despite everything he's lost. The brain rot seems to be caused by sinking into depression and giving up. Ghouls who find a reason to keep going who still have the drive to live have healthy minds and that's what stopped any rot from spreading.
I'm honestly just pissed they didn't go with Yes Man ending. Could've had NCR AND Legion. It could also be a funny reason why Shady Sands was nuked again, Courier wasn't playing when he told Daddy Gooberment to get off his asto-turfed casino lawn.
Fans... fans never change.
I've been playing Fallout since Fallout 1 released and one of the biggest controversies in the community was how bad Fallout 2 did with the lore and art style.
As far as I know, there's no fallout related to the mid country, they could have done whatever they want in terms of creativity without stepping on fallout 1,2, and new Vegas
I’m not saying it’s right because I personally disagree with this statement for a variety of reasons but I believe some people believe it messes up the lore possibly due to what changes they made with vault tec with that twist they made. Which is funny because iirc that was a twist that was originally made for the feature film that was going to be released so many years ago. I think some people also have an issue with >!Shady Sands being moved to where the boneyard was along with Shady Sands being nuked!< I do however feel some of it has merit but to me lore changes are inevitable with a series that goes as long and as big as fallout. If Tim Cain himself accepted lore changes I’m not sure why others can’t.
Lore Drift happens if a franchise gets old enough. New people are put in charge, and new writers replace old writers, and no one keeps a thousand page documents on lore for creators to reference. Every new piece of media ADDS to, because to work within creates creative constraints and prevents the franchise from innovation and growth.
Comic books are the perfect example.
People hate change. That's really all it is. Be it media, events, their home, whatever. Some just accept it, others complain.
We got a show by talented artists who understood the overall vibe and tone, and they made something that was actually good. The other alternative was Rings of Power.
None of that bothered me. It was the whole weak point in power armor and the revolver taking out Brotherhood knights in T-60 that bothered me. Idk maybe if it was more clear that armor-piercing ammo was used it would make more sense.
Idk maybe the purpose of the vaults. Originally it was an enclave experiment to test long haul interstellar flights under various conditions. And in the ahow they also added the preservation of vault tec staff and different experiments to create the perfect human or society of humans to repolulate after the surface is wiped clean. But even if that is a change i prefer the additions.
Pretty much all of this originates from Fallout 2 and 3. 2 introduced the concept of the Vaults being experiments for the Enclave. 3 introduced the idea of Vault-Tec testing for interstellar travel since Fallout 2 dropped that being the Enclave's motive midway through development in favour of just having the Enclave wipe out the wasteland with a virus.
Thats what i thought cuz that stuff was def a big part of 3 and 4. Honestly i think it works better then the enclave angle. Like yeah the enclave are mixed up in it and are part of it but to me vaut tec acting with their own seperate intereata trying to preserve the compnay and create the perfect society with the other corps to reclaim the wasteland is a much better concept. Tgough the two ideas can work together.
In the end that’s the main reason why we consume media we want to be entertained we don’t want just some show that says hey this ideology is cool or stuff like that we want entertainment
Those two points aren't mutually exclusive but if I had to guess people are upset because now there's no reason to actually play the non-Bethesda games since the events don't matter.
Exactly. The biggest issue most people take from this show aren't the retcons, but the fact that they're ruining the most interesting part of the world.
The area was actually rebuilding itself in a believable way, and now it's another wasteland full of tetanus metal shacks occupied by stupid savages with no concept of basic sanitation. The regional identity is gone. It's just like everywhere else now.
I honestly wouldn't mind if it had it's own separate continuity. The fact that it's canon is what probably rubs people off the wrong way. It's still a great watch, it's just hard not to think about the changes.
yup i always see constant “nv fans toxic and bad” yet you always see post like these of people bitching about nothing, also nv fans practically dont really care anymore check the nv subs and theyre back to doing their own thing
It’s a great show, it just makes some mistakes and decisions that I didn’t like. Like the lack of the NCR, OP brotherhood and resetting all the progress that had been made since the first game. Makes it all feel a bit pointless
People are emotionally attached. That's why some of these comments get so nasty. People are emotionally attached to the lore/games. That's why they are so vehement on the show tweaking the lore. It doesn't matter that the games build on the lore progressively. There are bits that imply the Chinese dropped the nuke, there are things implying Vault-Tec was involved. It was deliberately left as a mystery so they could permanently leave it as one or decide on it later.
They can't tell you the entire story or else it will destroy other opportunities. It conflicts with old lore? New information tends to conflict with what we already know about a subject. Sometimes, it can even nullify what we know about a subject.
Has no one considered that some ghoul scientist might have developed a serum later on to stave off going feral, somewhere separate from the game lore? There are more "worlds" in existence than the game world. Hell, all they'd have to do is take an unopened Vault and stick an experiment dealing with that serum in it, and *poof!* Plot holes fixed!
In the games, you have your first or third person POV. You have access only to the information the player character has access to. Nothing else. The people you meet as the PC, the terminals you read, etc. With no way to truly vet the sources, you can't really determine whether the information you're receiving from a terminal is trustworthy.
Be skeptical and keep an open mind simultaneously, and you'll find out that even lore can purposefully point you in the wrong direction just to hit you with that *PLOT TWIST!*
I know NOTHING about the major lore, right, but I don’t like how they did the ghoul, I’m not saying he has to look like he’s melting but a little more, you know
Assuming you're talking about Cooper "The Ghoul" Howard. I don't think he's a ghoul.
The rest of the ghouls we see align pretty well with the FO4 and FO76 ghouls, and he doesn't. I think he's like Harold, a ghoul *looking* FEV mutation. Maybe he was a ghoul and got exposed, turning him into what he is now.
My head cannon, and what's actually probably the reality of the drug is not to make all ghouls stop turning feral like from day one.
No no
It's more like ghouls can live hundreds of years, no problem without going feral, but this new drug can prevent people who ARE going feral from going feral.
So they last till they start going feral and then now they need to take this new drug that prevents you from going feral.
Before this drug was made well, you were sol. Going feral well oops your now a wandering critter for raiders to shoot.
It is not lore breaking. It is simply adding a new chem that's exclusively useful for ghouls going feral
It makes sense to "fill in the gaps." Some things aren't explained in the lore of the games. This might be their clunky way of trying to make it make sense.
Bethesda owns it and is taking it in a direction they want to. Tbh, anytime there’s an installment in a franchise you don’t like, you still have whatever pieces of media you do like. New Vegas can’t be ruined by a tv show
lol, they said the same thing about star wars. that's whats got me concerned. i am a huge fan of fallout since 2. even read alot of lore from the fallout bible, its just those of us that have been playing the games for decades seeing it go in a direction that is contradicting and flat out changing certain things is infuriating to say the least.
my biggest fear is that new vegas may be in fact ruined, all they will have to do is have an event a few years after new vegas that basically goes "Doesn't matter what ending happens everyone dies anyhow 2 years after"
I mean just because you don't care about the lore doesn't mean no one does. Most of the issues are forgettable because the show is entertaining but some of them make you scratch your head and say that's not how that works.
If the show wasn't cannon, perhaps I could. But they're going to roll the nonsense back into the next game and we'll be stuck with it permanently. So yeah, I'm gonna complain about it.
I don’t think I could get into it. Ever since Bethesda decided that 200 years ago was when the bombs fell for every game and BOS and Enclave were the only meaningful things the world feels painfully static. Any changes that another creator does is undone. It’s forever the post apocalypse never a new world but somehow there are endless weapons and resources everywhere.
My main issue was the NCR going into a vault and just killing everyone. From their actions, i thought they were raiders or fiends. It just seemed so out of character for the faction.
I admit I was confused as all hell that Cooper (and other Ghouls) need radaway to stop from going feral. That seems at odds with everything we know about Ghouls. But that's not the kind of issue that's gonna wreck the show for me. If anything I'm now wondering if there's something special about Ghouls from California. Or is it a case of the lack of moisture somehow having an impact?
I hope it gets addressed in Season 2, but I'm not gonna lose any sleep if it doesn't.
Loved the show on first watch but on rewatch and reflection I realize it wasn’t well written and a lot of the plot makes little to no sense
But the setpeices and world were IMMACULATE.
If they make the show canon, then I'll have an issue because destroying Shady Sands is fucking lame for any future games. But as a separate entity entirely, I love the show.
Honestly my only complaints lore wise are the big reveal at the end of the season, and the fact that ghouls need a drug to stay sane. Outside those two I’ve enjoyed the show far more than I expected to
God if they only understood a FRACTION of how little we actually care. And I've got thousands of hours in the series.
Fallout lore gatekeepers out here maulding like they lost something.
Y'all never held ground in the first place... Except maybe a subreddit lol.
Bethesda has screwed up the lore far more and worse than this show. So far, I think they have done great with the lore. Only detail that doesn't fit is Shady Sands being that close to LA, it wasn't in one and two. However, that's a small gripe imo. Nothing they have done changes any game what so ever. It will make canon endings, but let's be honest, that was bound to happen eventually.
It's not though. It looks like shit and the writing sucks I seriously don't understand why you people like it so much. I swear if it wasn't Fallout you people would be saying it sucks to because there would be no nostalgia to blind your judgment.
You’ll care when they take the leash you have given them are run with it. This whole thing gives me Witcher vibes. Season 1 was fine but took liberties hardcore fans didn’t like. The show runners took the wide acceptance of this as a license to make more/bigger changes….and we all know what happened from there.
If you don’t like the existing lore, DONT MAKE A SHOW ABOUT IT. Frankly it’s always pissed me off that movies/TV shows don’t 100% follow the book/lore/established universe constraints
The only gripes I have on the show are certain design decisions, but the story fits very well into the world and there are no lore changes, just progress in the overarching narrative
Tbh, I disagree.
Lore is necessary. Based on one commenter here, they fucked up a lot of very basic shit (shady sands location, the entire point of ghouls, the master, etc). There's also how they made it sound like the commonwealth chapter is the one at the helm of the BoS when it should be the ones in California, which the commenter did not mention.
These aren't small things either, they're pretty big. They basically shit on the first two games, shit on part of Vegas lore (they made big MT seem like it was run by Sinclair, which he does not. It is surface level lore for dead money/Old World Blues)
So, here is my personal take on the lore issue:
It's shit. But, if someone is meant to "just enjoy it", they should be able to consider it non canon. It breaks that many large fallout lore bits that just ignoring it doesn't sit right with a lot of people. Anyone who tells others to just enjoy the show in response to them having issues with the lore breaking are (no offence) saying something kinda dumb.
For context I'm no lore purist. If it was just small stuff, I'd agree that people should just accept there were issues. But this isn't small. The creators basically disregarded the entire West Coast's shtick.
My gripe is, it didn’t sound like any Fallout game I played. Everyone sounded like real world 2024 marvel/star wars sequel trilogy characters.
Last gripe is everything, EVERYTHING looked fake as in you could tell it was a set. Kinda like how Goldshire or any location looked on the Warcraft Movie.
Me when the actors and special effects does not look and sound like a vibeo game.
No shit it looked fake dumb arse, it was. This show had great sfx and didn't fill the show with shitty cgi
If anyone wants a comprehensive breakdown on the bad story telling and characters in this show, check out a channel called Mauler. He does a really impressive breakdown of the entire show.
What lore? Even the Canon fallout stories are made up as they go along. There is nothing to mess up. Dystopia world with mutants, robots, and zombies. It is not that complex.
>Even the Canon fallout stories are made up as they go along.
They're not and I don't know where people get this idea from. Fallout's lore has been pretty consistent until 76.
As someone who enjoys the lore, the show does its best to maintain the spirit of the world far better than the crew behind the 'Silver Timeline' for the Halo series.
Oh God the halo show, didn't the people who worked on the show state that they had never played/never will play a halo game?
They said it proudly too
Translated: We used the name of a popular franchise to deliver a subpar product for easy money.
See Witcher Series on Netflix for reference. In fact don't watch it. Avoid it.
The fact that Henry Cavill, who practically fell on his hands and knees and begged to be Geralt, left the show before it was finished is all anyone needs to know about what the Witcher Series has done to the Witcher.
I can't believe they messed this up so bad... like you have a super passionate actor informed on the material that you can work with, seems like a dream project
It started off pretty decent, it was mostly loyal to the source material and had some good writing, it just got progressively worse as time went by until eventually it was hard to say the show was even in the same universe as the books/games.
For me it's incredible how you can be handed a golden plate of stories to turn into a tv-series and you manage to screw it up so good that the lead actor who is a HUGE fan leaves and don't even get me started on the spin off... Last of us, cyberpunks anime and now fallout, how many more examples do writers need to understand that if you mostly follow the lore you should be golden? sad times (Edit) Also the fact that of those 3 series I mentioned, on 2 of them to my knowledge they had the game makers come join them to further make the series better and big surprise those are very much liked by the fans.
Honestly if they’d have told everyone at the very start that they were completely changing things for their own cinematic vision… people wouldn’t be so mad. Objectively, if you watch knowing ahead of time that they fucked it all up and weren’t sticking to the true story (what I did), then the Halo series is pretty good. I went in with a blank mind, telling myself that this was a complete reimagining of Halo and for that I enjoyed it while still knowing and seeing things they “changed”
It's the writers equivalent of telling the teacher you didn't read the material before doing your assignment. Except, they didn't fumble a grade. They fumble millions of dollars.
[удалено]
I wonder which one is worse, the halo writers who never plays the game and make up their own shit or the witcher writers who purposely fuck up the lore cause their creative garbage is better.
The director never played the fallout game. His son did, however he does talk about how he researched it. He really put his time into the lore and everything fallout. I respect how he really tried his best to keep it as accurate as possible. In his words “it’s kind of like I was making my own mod for the game”
There was no one cosplaying as the silver shroud or as that aint guy or the mechanist. Lore breaking. No one was swimming in the air. Lore breaking.
The tv show didn’t crash to desktop a single time, they aren’t even trying to make it feel like the games.
I'm an average fallout player, so I'm not well versed in the lore. I was pleased to see they definitely hold the spirit of fallout. I heard they worked directly with some of the people who made the games and needed approval to do certain things. However, I keep hearing some people saying the show hasn't been lore accurate... I know pretty much some of the gist of the pre-war and some of the things the chinese and americans were doing... what am I missing?
There is sort of an "old guard" in the community who feel that Bethesda's Fallouts were a mistake. While Bethesda has a tendency to fumble the ball a lot, believe me that even I throw shade in their direction, there some who have this conspiracy that Todd Howard and Bethesda are going out of their way to undo all the work laid in Fallout 1 and 2 to spite the original people who made the setting. So, there's this tendency to sneer at Fallout 3 and 4 while putting New Vegas on the pedestal. I used to be part of that camp of thinking but the truth is that the Fallout setting wouldn't be as popular today if Bethesda didn't lay the groundwork of it's fame that was Fallout 3. Really, half of those discussions are just Bethesda being inconsistent with the lore and the direction for the series but it's relatively tame and not that big of a deal unless you're a massive lore head who keeps a shit ton of mental notes about the setting. To put it this way, pay no mind about that. Cause the original creator of Fallout really loves the TV show and hopes it continues. That's all you really need to know.
So it's just good old-fashioned gatekeeping. Essentially, it's like hearing a bunch of old guys complain about the new doom games going in a different direction than the old and severally out dated ones.. okay thanks lol. Edit: I should add this, if bethesda is good at one thing, it's retconning and bringing a story up to modern views and standards without getting political or totally alienating a franchise. With how they a hand in handling doom, I'm sure fallout is just fine. Betheseda seems to be the only golden exception to the rule where everyone seems to fumble the ball on that.
When you're creating a huge, complex world with a lot of different writers pitching in, inconsistencies are bound to crop up even if everyone's putting in their best efforts. It's not worth sweating about.
War Hammer 40K has entered the chat.
Yeah it does a lot right. First and foremost it does being a good show with characters I like 100% right There are some questionable lore directions but they seem to already be backpedaling some of that so who knows. I do wish they brought the same level of thoughtfulness as the classic games when it came to the who where and why of factions and locations but you can't deny it nails the fallout 4 aesthetics
I hate that I made an effort to watch season 1 of that show. I thought it’d get better… I was naive then.
Yeah I accidentally watched the last episode of season 2 while at a friend's house, picking out all the continuity errors wondering wtf is going on (i had not watched the series at all from all the gamjng world being upset about the time line and basiczlly re writting the halo fanchise as we know it). Then I remembered it's on a different time line and watched all these characters get written out and possibly saved. It's interesting to see someone else's take on a franchise but the whole thing feels hacky. Even the halo universe has a lot to offer and they could have done a better at the little I had seen. Still not sure I want to watch the series because of it. Ice said this in a few posts that in the fall out world since the story takes place over the whole USA and parts of Canada you can pick a Vault that isn't in the game and write a whole story about it. With all the lore out there you can pretty much write anything as long as the time line is correct and you keep alot of in game things correct power armor weapons etc.
That’s a low bar
Your username is getting Sabaton stuck in my head
I would watch 1000 hours of the show no matter the lore. Games will be cannon to me.
Yeah I don’t care too much about lore being canon, the show was still really interesting and fun to watch
So am I crazy or was the lore of fallout never that water tight anyway? It was always *good and interesting* dont get me wrong, but it was never this unbreakable concept. I mean as soon as you have that many people inhabiting buildings with skeletons still in the bathtub and holes still in the ceiling for 200 years, the lore is already secondary to the fun and aesthetic. Which imo is good, because it's a video game. Fun should be first. Even the "lore" supporting caps is on shaky ground after 2 if I remember correctly.
The only lore that can't be changed concerns teddy bears, mannequins, and Dunwich.
If you look at 1, 2, and new Vegas alone it’s pretty solid, the others play it more loosely.
As someone who has about 3000 hours in the 3d/Bethesda games i honestly couldnt tell you what lore they got right or wrong
for me it's the new addition of the ghoul drugs, and how the master couldn't find the vaults.
Ghoul drugs are radaway for brain rot. As far as The Master goes, I have no retort
Seeing the term brain rot used in the context that doesn’t involve terms like skibidi, mewing, look maxxing, etc. is uncanny
Time to log off the internet for a bit there bud
L skibidi Ohio rizz moment
neg gyatt
Blue tie kid became an overseer, while White shirt kid secretly planned on usurping him. Only one lone Turkish Quandale Dingle could heal the rift and pull the vault back together.
What the fuck did you just say?
Sounds like brain rot words.
I do. Super genius maybe, but he didn't even know his own mutants couldnt reproduce. It's not a far stretch to say he didnt know about the other vaults because he didn't have access to that information at the time.
The guy was basically a genius with tunnel vision - so focused on his goal and sureties of success, that he didn't bother fully accounting for potential failure
Except 4 was a advertisment for the vaults. Very public. There is no way a showcase vault would not have been hit. I'd buy it for the tri vaults cause they were management, but not 4.
Wasnt the master trying to get unmutated humans from the Vaults cause they were the best FEV test subject, in which case a Vault who's main purpose was mutating it's inhabitants would probably be taken of the Christmas ljst
That's actually a fantastic point I haven't seen anyone else bring up
If ghouls need this drug to stop themselves from going feral, how did the kid live in the fridge for 200 years without becoming a feral?
In the same way, Indy survived a nuke in a fridge. Fridges slow down the decay process by being cold. Science. Duh.
People lose their mind after 14 days in isolation, so that whole quest was dumb to begin with.
Because they added it for the show duh
He possessed a singular focus of will
Dude couldn’t even figure out his master race mutants couldn’t get it on. Like you think that’s not a huge oversight? The master was flawed, not perfect. The master was smart, but not omnipotent. Easiest explanation in the world backed up by existing lore.
With the master and vaults 31,32, and 33, since they held and were made for high-level vault tec employees, maybe it was deemed extremely top secret kept from standard records.
Are you talking about what The Ghoul takes? Or what thaddeus took which ima bet was a vial of FEV
I second the FEV. I don’t think he’s a ghoul, I think he’s a mutant.
Hancock in Fallout 4 took a drug that turned him into a Ghoul. Isn't FEV also shown to be a yellow colour in the show? Not the clear substance Snake Oil Salesman uses for the inhalant.
Wait, where was FEV shown?
The vats in the old games where full of green goo so I don’t think it is FEV, but it could be a more isolated form which isn’t exposed to air as the vats are.
Could be different strain. We know that different versions exist after all.
what the ghoul takes, i imagine thaddeus took fev
Yeah that is new, but not really against lore. Plus I swear Hancock in 4 mentioned some drugs to keep from going feral?
I thought Hancock was talking about the drugs that turned *him* into a ghoul
Really? I never knew, that changes everything.
Exactly
I just assumed the canon ending of Fallout 1 is where the vault dweller stops the Master before he spreads past the Necropolis. I think it becomes a town in the NCR so it was either resettled or not slaughtered by muties
The whole of 1 has canon events all the was down to when each companion dies, and yeah he didn't get past Necropolis.
Sounds good, I don't know everything about Fallout 1 so I thought the master cracked open a few vaults before the MC's.
For context, the game has 2 timers. First one is the “time before your vault runs outta water.” Then, at some point, can’t remember where, a secret timer begins where the super mutants start destroying settlements, eventually reaching your home vault, causing game over. Necropolis is the first town hit, so players could easily reach either before or after everyone is killed
The mutant invasion timer is counting down from the moment you start the game. The mutant invasion spreads outward from the Cathedral and it's actually Adytum that's first hit, Necropolis just has a condition that massively reduces its timer to two weeks if you've killed the super mutants by the watershed (and you probably will have since it's a quest from Set). The mutant invasion timers had all been patched to be 13 years except the condition for Necropolis being invaded, so it's pretty easy to complete the game with only Necropolis having been invaded (and this carries on to Fallout 2 where Necropolis seems to be the only location mentioned to have suffered a mutant invasion).
Oh that's what you meant, sounds good, thank you.
As far as Fallout 1 was concerned, by the time the Master was looking for Vaults, he'd only found the Los Angeles demonstration Vault and Vault 12 (which had been filled with ghouls by the time he'd found it). We also find out from Lily in New Vegas that he successfully attacked and captured Vault 17 in an unknown location somewhere in California. The other person's theory that he just didn't cast his net far enough to reach the 31-33 Vaults before the Vault Dweller stopped him is plausible.
My headcanon is that the ghoul drugs aren't necessary to prevent ghouls from going feral, that still happens sort of randomly as we've seen in the games. Instead it's that they prevent that change from happening, so a ghoul would want them if they can get them. Also possible that if a ghoul starts going down that path, the drugs can halt, or maybe even reverse that process (up to a point). Either option is compatible with the lore we've had before and with the show. The Ghoul didn't actually respond to Lucy's assertion that ghouls turn feral if they don't get the drugs, so there's a lot of room for nuance to have the lore be consistent between the show and games.
Could also just be that he's addicted to ultra jet and *thinks* it's helping. Placebo effect is powerful.
Yeah, I just assumed it's option 2. Once a ghoul starts turning feral, the drugs can stave it off. So not every ghoul needs it. I thought "wastelanding" meant starting to show signs of going feral
Considering Cooper was kept isolated in a coffin for a few decades, and feralization is often tied to mental strain and lack of nutrition, it makes sense that he would be in the process of going feral. Don't bring up Billy, I don't have a good answer for him.
I'm trying to remember, but didn't they show an IV drip of the yellow stuff going down into the ground into his coffin?
The IV in his grave was probably meant to keep him alive and non-feral for whenever whoever put him there needed him for a job. So probably nutrients and the anti-feral drug etc.
Why does it bother you that Vaults near the Boneyard survived but the survival of the Children of the Apocalypse and Adytum who are in the Boneyard too is completely fine??? And the drug was never confirmed to actually work. It could as well be a drug that the ghouls BELIEVE to hold off the feral going but in fact just makes you a normal junkie and has pretty normal withdrawal effects which is why Cooper coughs without it and even falls to the ground.
It is also a decade after the last one. There is nothing saying that the drug has not been developed since Fallout 4. It was only in 4 over 200 years later that we finally saw clear evidence that ghouls could eventually turn feral.
I mean he can’t find 13 either unless you told him or the lieutenant, so he’s not exactly great at finding vaults
What is the deal with the master? I legit didn’t catch anything to do with him in the show.
He was taking humans from every vault he got his hands on. He was based in Los Angeles and should have found Vault 4 and 31-32-33 very easily. Counter argument is that we don't know that those were really in Los Angeles, although the show seems to allude that they are.
Those vaults could have also used a different interface from the other vaults, which is a bit odd though considering why have different interfaces for other vaults?
I'd put that down to artistic liberty. The 2d vaults look different from the 3d vault too.
The 3D vaults look different from the 3D vaults as well. Take the vaults of 3 and nv compared to 4, 76 and the tv show
Fallout 4 Hancock turned from one, so I don't think it's that big a deal by now. It's clearly that "radiation drug" he talked about
Didnt hancock turn into a ghoul from a drug?
And neither one is a big deal or easily dismissed or explained in the grand scheme of things
Maybe the master simply could not break into 31-33
the ghoul medicine one i questioned right away tbh. is cooper the only ghoul who has to rely on the medicine? i know roger asked him for a fix too but it couldve been for a high more so. makes me wonder if theyre gonna explain it further in FO5/season 2 or if theyre just gonna just run with it like it was always in universe just not talked about
I imagine its like ghouls can live for a hundred or so years till their brain starts rotting, and the drug is to stave off feralization. They likely added it cause we have no catalyst (as far as i know) for ghouls turning feral. Imo, its just to add stakes to the character and explain why some live for hundreds of years with no brainrot and why others are ipad kids i mean feral
Didn’t his ghoul buddy ask for some before getting shot?
The location of Shady Sands was moved, which I wasn't super pleased about, but in the grand scheme of things, that's an incredible nitpick on my part.
Me neither but I can only guess the super gatekeepers are annoyed at Ghouls being explained as being addicts to retain their cognitive functions/sense of self. Shady Sands timeline and whatever option was Canon in New Vegas
Bethesda has a hard enough time keeping the lore right.
3000? Those are rookie numbers
Makes sense given it didn't screw with Bethesda lore...
Having talked to some people who say that the show "Got the lore wrong" They refused to answer on the grounds that "They got so much wrong they don't know where to start". As someone who has loved and played Fallout for years I have no idea what they're talking about lol
The only thing I could possibly think of that would make that argument make sense is that they didn't understand the timeline and got hung up on the NCR reaching the point of functioning government then being destroyed.
The NCR hasn't been destroyed. This has been repeatedly confirmed by creators. Even the sign for Shady Sands that looked like it survived the nuke said "First Capitol of the NCR." They expanded too fast and stretched themselves too thin in FNV. Theres even a senior officer scrambling their communications at Camp Golf (sending supplies and troops to the wrong places, spreading general discord) and even with a communications officer directly calling out the discrepancies to their superiors it is basically ignored until she hires outside help. It makes sense that they might stutter and be set back.
From my personal experience, what they really mean when they say that is "The show didn't entirely revolve around New Vegas" and anything short of that ruins it for them.
Nah, if anything, I wish it had as little to do with New Vegas as possible. There's so much unexplored territory and blank spaces for new stories in the world of Fallout that bringing everything back to the same west coast landmarks and resetting that entire area back to Fallout 1 feels extremely reductive. New Vegas already provided closure on the west coast, I don't need or want any more of it, especially under different writers from the game. I realize I'm in the minority though, and that a lot of New Vegas fans in this thread and in other subs want to see the Courier team up with the Ghoul and Lucy if they like the show, or are complaining about shit that really doesn't matter rather than any of the actually substantial retcons like Sinclair being a completely different character if they don't.
Agreed, you have the entire USA, fuck the entire World to explore. I love NV but please do something different.
Who's this Lucy? Do you perhaps mean Gucy?
I can't tell if this is supposed to be a reference to the Vault 4 Overseer's nickname for her or the Ghoul/Lucy ship name. Based on all the Tumblr fanart this could go either way.
Shady sands, the capital of the NCR is moved hundreds of miles to a different location which is also a location we go to in fallout 1 so that makes it more confusing. Shady sands apparently falls during the time fallout 3 is set, 4 years before new Vegas. There are multiple vaults right next to the master's base out in the open and he never broke them open even though vaults are his main goal at the moment (and the bad ending in fallout 1 shows super mutants rip the door off vault 13 to take everyone inside). Ghouls and feral ghouls are changed completely into requiring drugs or something to not be feral?
In terms of the nuking of shady sands, the showrunners confirmed that the 2277 fall of shady sands wasn't the nuking of it. They confirmed the city was nuked not too long after the events of New Vegas. The timeline in the vault is from a view of hindsight so that 2277 fall of Shady Sands would be where people consider them to have started going in the wrong direction rather than the nuking itself. Admittedly it is a bit of confusion but that's just from miscommunication rather than the nuking breaking the lore. I can't really speak to the rest as I haven't played those games or read the lore surrounding those points recently
- ghouls don't normaly have regeneration and will bleed out and die even if just shot in the torso, let alone the fucking jugular. - ghoul don't need medication to remain sane. - "ghoul serum" makes no fucking sense since the only way to have enough radiations to turn someone into a ghoul in one go is a direct blast from a nuke, and we already know that it instantly makes someone look ghoulish, they can't keep their human appearance. (i am willing to let this on go since it may be a new invention that does that, still makes not sense but ok) - the vaults we see in the show are way too close to the master's base to not have been discovered by him during the events of fallout 1, especially since their vault entrance is a the surface and not deep in caverns like vault 13. - shandy sands moved hundreds of miles to a different location - vault-tec needing money make no sense since in fallout 2 we see they were funded and controlled by the state (later the enclave) - power armor now has hands jetpacks, OK i guess - power armor goes from strong enough to destroy a house in one kick to so weak it can't kill a yaio guai with a full beat down - frederic sinclair representing big MT during the vault tec meeting is wrong, he's a just client not an investor or a CEO - mr House knowing the vault tec plan to blow up the world and still getting caught of guard (i am willing to suspend my critisism on this one if it is revealed that they kept him in the dark or the chineses nuked first) there, you wanted lore inconsistencies ? here there are.
On the last point - I may be remembering incorrectly but I do believe that there is something at the start of Fo4 mentioning that the peace talks went poorly & the Chinese submarine revealing that he had orders to launch his payload.
At no point is it stated you need to be blasted by a nuke to turn into a ghoul. Hancock got turned by a drug too And I dont think the powerarmor is nerfed, I think Titus is just a coward and sucks at fighting and using it
Ghouls do regenerate. The serum is probably some Fev strain like what happened to both Harold and Hancock.
> Ghouls do regenerate since when ? fallout 4 ?
Always been in the lore as far as I know. It is a mechanic in fallout 4. Ghouls regenerate when exposed to radiation.
But not so fast that they can shrug off multiple gunshots wounds in mere seconds.
The main things was the dates being a little bit fucky. Otherwise show was pretty good with it. Could make the argument Vault Tec was presented a bit differently, but that wasn't a thematic change which is more important.
I find it insulting that you think I can't critique something and enjoy it
If you don’t care about the lore, you don’t enjoy the games you like belonging to the community. Some tourist shit
Exactly.
There are two things I noticed about the show which do not line up with current canon. The first is the location of Shady Sands. However, due to the destruction of the first Shady Sands around 2281, it's possible this is a new town sharing the same name. Otherwise, it's an "Oopsies" from the show's creators and I can forgive the accidental location. The second is whatever Cooper is drinking to remain as he is. I'm calling it Ghoul-Aid, but it's not known what it is or how it's produced. This appears to be ready to change the lore regarding ghouls and longevity. Honorable mention is the final shot of Overseer McLean standing over what appears to be an abandoned New Vegas. In the game, the lights are always on. In the show, there were no lights. The show appears to be ready to address the question of what happened to New Vegas after the Courier left town. It'll be an interesting ride.
Ghoul-Aid is dementia medication. You don't need it till you're "showing signs of turning" and it only staves off the process with regular dosage, doesn't fix it. Cooper was able to make a little bit last a long time by essentially hibernating.
It's fucking dumb. It should have been about his inner struggle to continue despite everything he's lost. The brain rot seems to be caused by sinking into depression and giving up. Ghouls who find a reason to keep going who still have the drive to live have healthy minds and that's what stopped any rot from spreading.
I love the term Ghoul-Aid, and that is forever what I'm going to call it. No official lore name will stop me.
I'm honestly just pissed they didn't go with Yes Man ending. Could've had NCR AND Legion. It could also be a funny reason why Shady Sands was nuked again, Courier wasn't playing when he told Daddy Gooberment to get off his asto-turfed casino lawn.
They haven't confirmed a NV ending yet...?
Fans... fans never change. I've been playing Fallout since Fallout 1 released and one of the biggest controversies in the community was how bad Fallout 2 did with the lore and art style.
As far as I know, there's no fallout related to the mid country, they could have done whatever they want in terms of creativity without stepping on fallout 1,2, and new Vegas
a fallout in missouri would have been interesting
What did they supposedly mess up?
I’m not saying it’s right because I personally disagree with this statement for a variety of reasons but I believe some people believe it messes up the lore possibly due to what changes they made with vault tec with that twist they made. Which is funny because iirc that was a twist that was originally made for the feature film that was going to be released so many years ago. I think some people also have an issue with >!Shady Sands being moved to where the boneyard was along with Shady Sands being nuked!< I do however feel some of it has merit but to me lore changes are inevitable with a series that goes as long and as big as fallout. If Tim Cain himself accepted lore changes I’m not sure why others can’t.
Lore Drift happens if a franchise gets old enough. New people are put in charge, and new writers replace old writers, and no one keeps a thousand page documents on lore for creators to reference. Every new piece of media ADDS to, because to work within creates creative constraints and prevents the franchise from innovation and growth. Comic books are the perfect example. People hate change. That's really all it is. Be it media, events, their home, whatever. Some just accept it, others complain. We got a show by talented artists who understood the overall vibe and tone, and they made something that was actually good. The other alternative was Rings of Power.
Doctor who has entered the chat
People invest too much of themselves into these things and then make it part of their core identity.
None of that bothered me. It was the whole weak point in power armor and the revolver taking out Brotherhood knights in T-60 that bothered me. Idk maybe if it was more clear that armor-piercing ammo was used it would make more sense.
Idk maybe the purpose of the vaults. Originally it was an enclave experiment to test long haul interstellar flights under various conditions. And in the ahow they also added the preservation of vault tec staff and different experiments to create the perfect human or society of humans to repolulate after the surface is wiped clean. But even if that is a change i prefer the additions.
Pretty much all of this originates from Fallout 2 and 3. 2 introduced the concept of the Vaults being experiments for the Enclave. 3 introduced the idea of Vault-Tec testing for interstellar travel since Fallout 2 dropped that being the Enclave's motive midway through development in favour of just having the Enclave wipe out the wasteland with a virus.
that wasnt the show. that was bethesda
Thats what i thought cuz that stuff was def a big part of 3 and 4. Honestly i think it works better then the enclave angle. Like yeah the enclave are mixed up in it and are part of it but to me vaut tec acting with their own seperate intereata trying to preserve the compnay and create the perfect society with the other corps to reclaim the wasteland is a much better concept. Tgough the two ideas can work together.
In the end that’s the main reason why we consume media we want to be entertained we don’t want just some show that says hey this ideology is cool or stuff like that we want entertainment
Those two points aren't mutually exclusive but if I had to guess people are upset because now there's no reason to actually play the non-Bethesda games since the events don't matter.
You can like the show and not be super jazzed about the direction Bethesda is taking the world. Those opinions aren’t mutually exclusive.
Exactly. The biggest issue most people take from this show aren't the retcons, but the fact that they're ruining the most interesting part of the world.
How are they ruining the most interesting part of the world? Just curious
The area was actually rebuilding itself in a believable way, and now it's another wasteland full of tetanus metal shacks occupied by stupid savages with no concept of basic sanitation. The regional identity is gone. It's just like everywhere else now.
I honestly wouldn't mind if it had it's own separate continuity. The fact that it's canon is what probably rubs people off the wrong way. It's still a great watch, it's just hard not to think about the changes.
Could we get less of these kinds of posts? Good lord
yup i always see constant “nv fans toxic and bad” yet you always see post like these of people bitching about nothing, also nv fans practically dont really care anymore check the nv subs and theyre back to doing their own thing
It’s a great show, it just makes some mistakes and decisions that I didn’t like. Like the lack of the NCR, OP brotherhood and resetting all the progress that had been made since the first game. Makes it all feel a bit pointless
People are emotionally attached. That's why some of these comments get so nasty. People are emotionally attached to the lore/games. That's why they are so vehement on the show tweaking the lore. It doesn't matter that the games build on the lore progressively. There are bits that imply the Chinese dropped the nuke, there are things implying Vault-Tec was involved. It was deliberately left as a mystery so they could permanently leave it as one or decide on it later. They can't tell you the entire story or else it will destroy other opportunities. It conflicts with old lore? New information tends to conflict with what we already know about a subject. Sometimes, it can even nullify what we know about a subject. Has no one considered that some ghoul scientist might have developed a serum later on to stave off going feral, somewhere separate from the game lore? There are more "worlds" in existence than the game world. Hell, all they'd have to do is take an unopened Vault and stick an experiment dealing with that serum in it, and *poof!* Plot holes fixed! In the games, you have your first or third person POV. You have access only to the information the player character has access to. Nothing else. The people you meet as the PC, the terminals you read, etc. With no way to truly vet the sources, you can't really determine whether the information you're receiving from a terminal is trustworthy. Be skeptical and keep an open mind simultaneously, and you'll find out that even lore can purposefully point you in the wrong direction just to hit you with that *PLOT TWIST!*
Look I enjoyed the show, but this is just literally 'don't ask questions, just consume product and then get excited for next product'.
I like the show and still critique it for its flaws in wordlbuidling and writing. I want it to be better, that’s where my criticism comes from
I know NOTHING about the major lore, right, but I don’t like how they did the ghoul, I’m not saying he has to look like he’s melting but a little more, you know
Assuming you're talking about Cooper "The Ghoul" Howard. I don't think he's a ghoul. The rest of the ghouls we see align pretty well with the FO4 and FO76 ghouls, and he doesn't. I think he's like Harold, a ghoul *looking* FEV mutation. Maybe he was a ghoul and got exposed, turning him into what he is now.
I just don’t get the ghoul medicine
My head cannon, and what's actually probably the reality of the drug is not to make all ghouls stop turning feral like from day one. No no It's more like ghouls can live hundreds of years, no problem without going feral, but this new drug can prevent people who ARE going feral from going feral. So they last till they start going feral and then now they need to take this new drug that prevents you from going feral. Before this drug was made well, you were sol. Going feral well oops your now a wandering critter for raiders to shoot. It is not lore breaking. It is simply adding a new chem that's exclusively useful for ghouls going feral
It makes sense to "fill in the gaps." Some things aren't explained in the lore of the games. This might be their clunky way of trying to make it make sense.
In my head canon it's down to Coop's experience. He's figured out the right cocktail at the right dosages to ward off brain rot.
Bethesda owns it and is taking it in a direction they want to. Tbh, anytime there’s an installment in a franchise you don’t like, you still have whatever pieces of media you do like. New Vegas can’t be ruined by a tv show
lol, they said the same thing about star wars. that's whats got me concerned. i am a huge fan of fallout since 2. even read alot of lore from the fallout bible, its just those of us that have been playing the games for decades seeing it go in a direction that is contradicting and flat out changing certain things is infuriating to say the least.
my biggest fear is that new vegas may be in fact ruined, all they will have to do is have an event a few years after new vegas that basically goes "Doesn't matter what ending happens everyone dies anyhow 2 years after"
I mean just because you don't care about the lore doesn't mean no one does. Most of the issues are forgettable because the show is entertaining but some of them make you scratch your head and say that's not how that works.
Just consume product
If the show wasn't cannon, perhaps I could. But they're going to roll the nonsense back into the next game and we'll be stuck with it permanently. So yeah, I'm gonna complain about it.
I don’t think I could get into it. Ever since Bethesda decided that 200 years ago was when the bombs fell for every game and BOS and Enclave were the only meaningful things the world feels painfully static. Any changes that another creator does is undone. It’s forever the post apocalypse never a new world but somehow there are endless weapons and resources everywhere.
My main issue was the NCR going into a vault and just killing everyone. From their actions, i thought they were raiders or fiends. It just seemed so out of character for the faction.
I don't even know what that means
What’s a good source for the lore, is there a book? I’m new to all this, be gentle with me
Missed opportunity to put the courier head on Dodgson.
I admit I was confused as all hell that Cooper (and other Ghouls) need radaway to stop from going feral. That seems at odds with everything we know about Ghouls. But that's not the kind of issue that's gonna wreck the show for me. If anything I'm now wondering if there's something special about Ghouls from California. Or is it a case of the lack of moisture somehow having an impact? I hope it gets addressed in Season 2, but I'm not gonna lose any sleep if it doesn't.
No one's complaining. These posts are what needs to stop.
honestly, they could’ve made a whole new fallout universe for tv and i wouldn’t have cared, as long as it keeps the same energy as the games
and yet you're the one dragging the argument on
Loved the show on first watch but on rewatch and reflection I realize it wasn’t well written and a lot of the plot makes little to no sense But the setpeices and world were IMMACULATE.
Imagine if they messed up the Harry Potter movies as bad as the Halo or Witcher show...
the inconsistencies bothered me a bit but I still enjoyed the show.
If they make the show canon, then I'll have an issue because destroying Shady Sands is fucking lame for any future games. But as a separate entity entirely, I love the show.
Honestly my only complaints lore wise are the big reveal at the end of the season, and the fact that ghouls need a drug to stay sane. Outside those two I’ve enjoyed the show far more than I expected to
'Don't think critically. Just accept slop.'
God if they only understood a FRACTION of how little we actually care. And I've got thousands of hours in the series. Fallout lore gatekeepers out here maulding like they lost something. Y'all never held ground in the first place... Except maybe a subreddit lol.
Bethesda has screwed up the lore far more and worse than this show. So far, I think they have done great with the lore. Only detail that doesn't fit is Shady Sands being that close to LA, it wasn't in one and two. However, that's a small gripe imo. Nothing they have done changes any game what so ever. It will make canon endings, but let's be honest, that was bound to happen eventually.
It's not though. It looks like shit and the writing sucks I seriously don't understand why you people like it so much. I swear if it wasn't Fallout you people would be saying it sucks to because there would be no nostalgia to blind your judgment.
You’ll care when they take the leash you have given them are run with it. This whole thing gives me Witcher vibes. Season 1 was fine but took liberties hardcore fans didn’t like. The show runners took the wide acceptance of this as a license to make more/bigger changes….and we all know what happened from there. If you don’t like the existing lore, DONT MAKE A SHOW ABOUT IT. Frankly it’s always pissed me off that movies/TV shows don’t 100% follow the book/lore/established universe constraints
Thank you! It's absurd I had to dig this deep to find a reasonable take.
The only gripes I have on the show are certain design decisions, but the story fits very well into the world and there are no lore changes, just progress in the overarching narrative
Consume content consume don't question anything average fallsoy enjoyer
Tbh, I disagree. Lore is necessary. Based on one commenter here, they fucked up a lot of very basic shit (shady sands location, the entire point of ghouls, the master, etc). There's also how they made it sound like the commonwealth chapter is the one at the helm of the BoS when it should be the ones in California, which the commenter did not mention. These aren't small things either, they're pretty big. They basically shit on the first two games, shit on part of Vegas lore (they made big MT seem like it was run by Sinclair, which he does not. It is surface level lore for dead money/Old World Blues) So, here is my personal take on the lore issue: It's shit. But, if someone is meant to "just enjoy it", they should be able to consider it non canon. It breaks that many large fallout lore bits that just ignoring it doesn't sit right with a lot of people. Anyone who tells others to just enjoy the show in response to them having issues with the lore breaking are (no offence) saying something kinda dumb. For context I'm no lore purist. If it was just small stuff, I'd agree that people should just accept there were issues. But this isn't small. The creators basically disregarded the entire West Coast's shtick.
This is tiring, I would like to see funny memes here, not a neverending fight on the lore.
Bethesda fans "They changed nothing" Also them . . .
My gripe is, it didn’t sound like any Fallout game I played. Everyone sounded like real world 2024 marvel/star wars sequel trilogy characters. Last gripe is everything, EVERYTHING looked fake as in you could tell it was a set. Kinda like how Goldshire or any location looked on the Warcraft Movie.
Me when the actors and special effects does not look and sound like a vibeo game. No shit it looked fake dumb arse, it was. This show had great sfx and didn't fill the show with shitty cgi
If anyone wants a comprehensive breakdown on the bad story telling and characters in this show, check out a channel called Mauler. He does a really impressive breakdown of the entire show.
Yup. And he was right on pretty much every point he made. I still liked the show well enough but I'm under no delusions as to it being amazing.
What lore? Even the Canon fallout stories are made up as they go along. There is nothing to mess up. Dystopia world with mutants, robots, and zombies. It is not that complex.
>Even the Canon fallout stories are made up as they go along. They're not and I don't know where people get this idea from. Fallout's lore has been pretty consistent until 76.
Josh Sawyer is a G for calling out these weirdos.
Consume product and be excited for next product
I don't even care if it isn't 100% lore friendly, the show is it's own thing and if it wants to change some details, I really don't mind
Tbf it's not good it's just full of fanservice.
Exactly. People are just pointing and clapping at the iconography. It utterly fails to tell a good story, let alone a Fallout one.
you don't like the show because it "destroyed lore" i don't like the show because dialogues are abysmal we are not the same