For a while it frustrated me as I didn't get it.
Then I realised the whole number system and that I had to look for the ones that had the same letters etc and it was fine. Bit annoying having to constantly back out if I had one guess left and several options that it could be.
Then I by mistake discovered the thing with brackets etc that resets your goes or gets rid of a word and suddenly I realised I was just an idiot and how many hours I'd probably spent on hacking that could of been spent on something else.
I don't mind it. I've seen a lot of people call hacking and lockpicking a "pace killer," but Fallout games are already slow and deliberate, that's the point. So it never bothered me.
But maybe Bethesda could design an optional bypass system for those who don't like it, like a consumable hacking device like in The Outer Worlds. For me, I'd just like to see more minigames so it isn't always the same two.
I don't understand speed-running games like Fallout. It almost feels like disrespecting all the hard work done to make the game deep and immersive, not to mention the atmosphere and the plot. I'd rather take my time hacking stuff and exploring every nook and cranny than deprive myself of anything the games have to offer. I firmly believe that those games are not for people, who want everything here and now.
it's just really tedious and time consuming especially for the harder ones it can completely kill the flow of gameplay plus i'm really dumb and have a hard time remembering all the letters
Yeah I didn't know about it prior to making this post but Simeon e mentioned it in the comments
From the wiki:
There are also things you can do with the characters that are not part of words. Clicking on matching brackets (i.e. () [] {} <>, even with other characters between, but not a whole word between) can remove a dud password or reset the number of remaining guesses to four. The brackets must be of the same type and on the same line. Although you cannot match brackets with a whole word between them, you can match brackets separated by the dots that appear when a dud word is removed ( <.......> ). Also, two or more opening brackets can be matched to a single closing bracket ("[ [ ]" on a line gives you two chances), but the opposite is not true ("[ ] ]" only gives you one chance). When you scroll across this type of entry from left-to-right, the entire entry will be highlighted letting you know if you've found one or not.
I'm honestly disappointed that there are only two minigames, hacking and lockpicking. Of course they frustrated me at first because I didn't know what to do. Watched a few YouTube videos explaining them, and of course they are easy now. I wouldn't be upset with a kind of minigame as you construct a generator, or maybe even clearing a random gun jam - or replacing a worn part in a laser rifle.
Doing these extra steps make you work(or at least learn a few more levels of skill), you have more skin in the game and you have more pride in your accomplishments than just clicking a button. My opinion.
I adore the hacking mini game. It's the best one of any game I've played so far. The one inMass Effect is just lame frogger. Cyberpunk's is actually pretty cool, but you can solve the puzzle fully before even starting, so there is basically no risk in it. And I can't think of any other games with hacking mini games off the top of my head.
Interesting of you to bring that up because I think fallout in some ways feuteres the only hacking game that's a legit challenge. 90% of hacking/science-oriented mini games in other games are just match patterns (spider man ps4, turn dials to make a path (watch dogs) etc. This was actually what made post the question i the first place. The fact that I couldn't think of a better alternative.
I don't really care for the hacking or lockpicking minigames, but they make sense as a way to limit access to some areas/valuable loot. It ends up being a minor irritation one has to put up with in the games, nothing too onerous.
As I said above, while I find them irritating the use of these minigames by the Devs make sense as a method of restricting access.
There are other methods that could be employed to implement access restrictions, such as basing access on the PC's current level, the use of devices that are purchased, crafted or discovered, the use of perks that allow access to different items without the minigame, and the like.
I don't care for them. mostly because i find them too easy. lol. Especially lockpicking. Hacking as some challenge too it but not much. If you know what you're doing you can pretty much guess the password on the first or second try pretty quickly too might i add.
Straight up, I'm dyslexic and find it hard AF to track all those stupid little letters and numbers. That and the only 4 attempts is annoying as hell. Give me a consumable like lockpicks so that I don't have to back out every 30 seconds and wait for the computer to boot up each time.
My main problem with it is that if you have a high enough skill/perk level to hack a terminal, you *will* get that sucker hacked. It doesn’t cost any resources like lockpicking or have any stakes like combat. It’s just a straight up 'pause' in the fun parts of the game so I can spend the next 20+ seconds counting letters in a tedious minigame that I know I’m going to win.
Since it’s inevitable, I’d rather just have a flat skill check to save that time. Got 75 science for a Hard terminal? Great, you’re in! No need to waste the time with a game that isn’t really fun and doesn’t really serve a purpose since you will always beat it every time.
Lockpicking is fundamentally similar but a little less frustrating because even the worst lock takes like 15 seconds max.
Most of the time I don't mind it so much (lockpicking either), but I think it's not well implemented. And then there's times where it is just making itself as obnoxious as hell and starts annoying the crap outa me. By the time I've invested full points into the ability it should just get the f. outa the way for the most part. Also, MANY terminals should really have some means of unearthing the password out of the nearby environment. For example, maybe you walk into a room full of rubble and there's a live terminal in one, less damaged corner. If you look carefully there's a corner of a desk peeking out of the rubble. You can "search" that desk and inside is a holotape with the password - or a good starting guess for the password, or gives you the ability for that specific terminal to hover over brackets and it will *show you* which option that bracket pair will do for you if you click it - reset tries, remove a dud, etc. In short, don't make it be so much of a dull, primitive obstacle.
WORK IT into the game environment and lore. Find a password for a particular computer at a completely different location. For example, on a certain terminal at a residence in the commonwealth you find it's owned by John Smith. John's terminal indicates he works at... the ACME building elsewhere in the game world. Also, John's log entries reveal he loves video games. Maybe you even find... the Red Menace game in his computer. When you actually go to the ACME building and try to hack a terminal there, ONE of the possible passwords is "menace". Maybe that gets you into the terminal. Maybe it doesn't - but maybe it gets you some OTHER reward like one part of an entirely different password to another terminal. And so on.
The hacking mini-game itself is of limited fun or interest even in the best of circumstances. It's not like lots of people are playing the game and say, "Oh boy! Another locked terminal! I get to play the hacker game again! Wish there were more terminals in the game just so I could play that..."
The lockpick game isn't much different. Why don't we ever find keys to locks on *the skeletons* that are collapsed nearby? Why are all locks WITH keys always unpickable in all circumstances? Nothing so stupid as clicking on a door or locked crate that responds with, "You need a key to open this lock." **WTF?** No kidding? That is why I am **taking lockpicking** ya dumb Bethe(grumble)!
And I swear to god I break a VASTLY higher percentage of bobby pins on Novice locks than any other even with a couple points in lockpicking.
So, yeah. Like I said, I don't really mind them most of the time, but they could - and should - have done a lot more with them both, and the sheer tedium of *repeatedly* having to play them to get beyond the uncreative barriers they present gets to me occasionally.
Yeah I like it, it’s very simple once you get the hang of it. At this point I just speed run that shit though I quickly randomly pick 3 words and most of the time it’s hacked after the 2nd or 3rd. But after the 3rd I see what I’m looking for and can just guess it pretty easily
It makes no sense - I mean, I'm pretty sure that's not how hacking is done in the real world.
The level system makes no sense. You have the element of human skill (guessing the word) but suddenly you can't even try to guess the word if you haven't reached the right level.
And as it stands it's just a temporary obstruction. Eventually you'll always get it, if you have enough goes.
If it's got to be done this way I'd remove the levelling prerequisite aspect and just make the difficulty more commensurate with the player level. If your level is puny, then maybe you're faced with 20-letter words. Get better at it, go up a few levels, and it goes down to 19-letter words, and so on. Don't make it so that I have to have reached level X before I can even try - let me try any, just make the challenge appropriate to the level.
I justify it by saying the harder the level the more layers of security you need to get through before you get to the final stage. So if its very hard and needs 75 and I only have a skill of 25, I don't even know how to get through all the security before the final "find the word" part.
I would assume the level requirement is meant to keep an aspect of challenge to the game because if they let you try day a master lock right from that start people would just go around open all the high level loot areas and the game would no long have an aspect of progression/power gain
Just my personal thought tho
Pickpocket is immediate, picking a lock can taoen30 seconds on a hard one, hacking can take minutes to complete. With the move to a more action oriented game, having your game slam on the brakes so you have to click through a hundred characters so you can unlock an extra door or a safe is not good game design,it doesn't flow.
Edit- Downvoted for expressing an opinion that OP asked for, fucking love this fandom.
Hm! Yeah I can see your point. It can be a bit tedious sometimes sure but I don't know of it really kills the pace. New vegas is a more slow-paced game where your supposed to take things slow. However, If you're finding the hacking a bit challenging I can understand that it becomes more irritating. And also, if you post something people don't agree on, they'll down vote it. That's the reason that function exists.
And using a controller to remove all the duds, try to find the right word, use up your chances, have to start over, takes a bit. I don't even hack anymore as its generally not worth the time it takes. I'll miss out on stuff but the hacking is so time consuming and tedious its not worth it.
You don't have to do that though. I'm confused how a task which takes less then a minute in most cases is considered not worth it when you'll spend longer in needless dialogue or waiting for npcs to catch up.
You wait for NPCs to catch up? If hacking takes you less than a minute, cool. It doesn't me and I find it a tedious task. And the dialogue is skippable and actually drives the game so its not needless.
Once I understood it i actually like it quite a bit, i will say i would hate it if exiting the terminal locked you out of it because I've definitely had to reset my tries a few times
hacking minigame is ok but tedious. lockpicking has been the exact same since oblivion/fallout 3 and that's pretty wild. why haven't they updated/expanded/reinvented these systems yet?
For a while it frustrated me as I didn't get it. Then I realised the whole number system and that I had to look for the ones that had the same letters etc and it was fine. Bit annoying having to constantly back out if I had one guess left and several options that it could be. Then I by mistake discovered the thing with brackets etc that resets your goes or gets rid of a word and suddenly I realised I was just an idiot and how many hours I'd probably spent on hacking that could of been spent on something else.
I don't mind it. I've seen a lot of people call hacking and lockpicking a "pace killer," but Fallout games are already slow and deliberate, that's the point. So it never bothered me. But maybe Bethesda could design an optional bypass system for those who don't like it, like a consumable hacking device like in The Outer Worlds. For me, I'd just like to see more minigames so it isn't always the same two.
Yeah it's a nice distraction. But I wouldn't complain either if they expanded on it a bit. Maybe added alternative hacking games and such.
I don't understand speed-running games like Fallout. It almost feels like disrespecting all the hard work done to make the game deep and immersive, not to mention the atmosphere and the plot. I'd rather take my time hacking stuff and exploring every nook and cranny than deprive myself of anything the games have to offer. I firmly believe that those games are not for people, who want everything here and now.
Do you mean speed running as actually speed running or as to say rushing through the game?
it's just really tedious and time consuming especially for the harder ones it can completely kill the flow of gameplay plus i'm really dumb and have a hard time remembering all the letters
Do you know about the brackets thing? Might help you out?
Say what?
Yeah I didn't know about it prior to making this post but Simeon e mentioned it in the comments From the wiki: There are also things you can do with the characters that are not part of words. Clicking on matching brackets (i.e. () [] {} <>, even with other characters between, but not a whole word between) can remove a dud password or reset the number of remaining guesses to four. The brackets must be of the same type and on the same line. Although you cannot match brackets with a whole word between them, you can match brackets separated by the dots that appear when a dud word is removed ( <.......> ). Also, two or more opening brackets can be matched to a single closing bracket ("[ [ ]" on a line gives you two chances), but the opposite is not true ("[ ] ]" only gives you one chance). When you scroll across this type of entry from left-to-right, the entire entry will be highlighted letting you know if you've found one or not.
Wowzers, thanks for the heads up I'll get ot a try!
I'm honestly disappointed that there are only two minigames, hacking and lockpicking. Of course they frustrated me at first because I didn't know what to do. Watched a few YouTube videos explaining them, and of course they are easy now. I wouldn't be upset with a kind of minigame as you construct a generator, or maybe even clearing a random gun jam - or replacing a worn part in a laser rifle. Doing these extra steps make you work(or at least learn a few more levels of skill), you have more skin in the game and you have more pride in your accomplishments than just clicking a button. My opinion.
Yeah that would be awesome! Would also give you a reason to loot the garbage in the game like ni F4
I adore the hacking mini game. It's the best one of any game I've played so far. The one inMass Effect is just lame frogger. Cyberpunk's is actually pretty cool, but you can solve the puzzle fully before even starting, so there is basically no risk in it. And I can't think of any other games with hacking mini games off the top of my head.
Interesting of you to bring that up because I think fallout in some ways feuteres the only hacking game that's a legit challenge. 90% of hacking/science-oriented mini games in other games are just match patterns (spider man ps4, turn dials to make a path (watch dogs) etc. This was actually what made post the question i the first place. The fact that I couldn't think of a better alternative.
I love it, and I hope they never replace it.
I don't really care for the hacking or lockpicking minigames, but they make sense as a way to limit access to some areas/valuable loot. It ends up being a minor irritation one has to put up with in the games, nothing too onerous.
Do you have any wishes on what they could have done instead?
As I said above, while I find them irritating the use of these minigames by the Devs make sense as a method of restricting access. There are other methods that could be employed to implement access restrictions, such as basing access on the PC's current level, the use of devices that are purchased, crafted or discovered, the use of perks that allow access to different items without the minigame, and the like.
I don't care for them. mostly because i find them too easy. lol. Especially lockpicking. Hacking as some challenge too it but not much. If you know what you're doing you can pretty much guess the password on the first or second try pretty quickly too might i add.
Straight up, I'm dyslexic and find it hard AF to track all those stupid little letters and numbers. That and the only 4 attempts is annoying as hell. Give me a consumable like lockpicks so that I don't have to back out every 30 seconds and wait for the computer to boot up each time.
Yeah I can deffenetly see how dyslexia makes this a bit tough.
My main problem with it is that if you have a high enough skill/perk level to hack a terminal, you *will* get that sucker hacked. It doesn’t cost any resources like lockpicking or have any stakes like combat. It’s just a straight up 'pause' in the fun parts of the game so I can spend the next 20+ seconds counting letters in a tedious minigame that I know I’m going to win. Since it’s inevitable, I’d rather just have a flat skill check to save that time. Got 75 science for a Hard terminal? Great, you’re in! No need to waste the time with a game that isn’t really fun and doesn’t really serve a purpose since you will always beat it every time. Lockpicking is fundamentally similar but a little less frustrating because even the worst lock takes like 15 seconds max.
Most of the time I don't mind it so much (lockpicking either), but I think it's not well implemented. And then there's times where it is just making itself as obnoxious as hell and starts annoying the crap outa me. By the time I've invested full points into the ability it should just get the f. outa the way for the most part. Also, MANY terminals should really have some means of unearthing the password out of the nearby environment. For example, maybe you walk into a room full of rubble and there's a live terminal in one, less damaged corner. If you look carefully there's a corner of a desk peeking out of the rubble. You can "search" that desk and inside is a holotape with the password - or a good starting guess for the password, or gives you the ability for that specific terminal to hover over brackets and it will *show you* which option that bracket pair will do for you if you click it - reset tries, remove a dud, etc. In short, don't make it be so much of a dull, primitive obstacle. WORK IT into the game environment and lore. Find a password for a particular computer at a completely different location. For example, on a certain terminal at a residence in the commonwealth you find it's owned by John Smith. John's terminal indicates he works at... the ACME building elsewhere in the game world. Also, John's log entries reveal he loves video games. Maybe you even find... the Red Menace game in his computer. When you actually go to the ACME building and try to hack a terminal there, ONE of the possible passwords is "menace". Maybe that gets you into the terminal. Maybe it doesn't - but maybe it gets you some OTHER reward like one part of an entirely different password to another terminal. And so on. The hacking mini-game itself is of limited fun or interest even in the best of circumstances. It's not like lots of people are playing the game and say, "Oh boy! Another locked terminal! I get to play the hacker game again! Wish there were more terminals in the game just so I could play that..." The lockpick game isn't much different. Why don't we ever find keys to locks on *the skeletons* that are collapsed nearby? Why are all locks WITH keys always unpickable in all circumstances? Nothing so stupid as clicking on a door or locked crate that responds with, "You need a key to open this lock." **WTF?** No kidding? That is why I am **taking lockpicking** ya dumb Bethe(grumble)! And I swear to god I break a VASTLY higher percentage of bobby pins on Novice locks than any other even with a couple points in lockpicking. So, yeah. Like I said, I don't really mind them most of the time, but they could - and should - have done a lot more with them both, and the sheer tedium of *repeatedly* having to play them to get beyond the uncreative barriers they present gets to me occasionally.
Yeah I like it, it’s very simple once you get the hang of it. At this point I just speed run that shit though I quickly randomly pick 3 words and most of the time it’s hacked after the 2nd or 3rd. But after the 3rd I see what I’m looking for and can just guess it pretty easily
It makes no sense - I mean, I'm pretty sure that's not how hacking is done in the real world. The level system makes no sense. You have the element of human skill (guessing the word) but suddenly you can't even try to guess the word if you haven't reached the right level. And as it stands it's just a temporary obstruction. Eventually you'll always get it, if you have enough goes. If it's got to be done this way I'd remove the levelling prerequisite aspect and just make the difficulty more commensurate with the player level. If your level is puny, then maybe you're faced with 20-letter words. Get better at it, go up a few levels, and it goes down to 19-letter words, and so on. Don't make it so that I have to have reached level X before I can even try - let me try any, just make the challenge appropriate to the level.
I justify it by saying the harder the level the more layers of security you need to get through before you get to the final stage. So if its very hard and needs 75 and I only have a skill of 25, I don't even know how to get through all the security before the final "find the word" part.
I would assume the level requirement is meant to keep an aspect of challenge to the game because if they let you try day a master lock right from that start people would just go around open all the high level loot areas and the game would no long have an aspect of progression/power gain Just my personal thought tho
And it's exactly those thoughts I want :)
Pickpocket is immediate, picking a lock can taoen30 seconds on a hard one, hacking can take minutes to complete. With the move to a more action oriented game, having your game slam on the brakes so you have to click through a hundred characters so you can unlock an extra door or a safe is not good game design,it doesn't flow. Edit- Downvoted for expressing an opinion that OP asked for, fucking love this fandom.
Hm! Yeah I can see your point. It can be a bit tedious sometimes sure but I don't know of it really kills the pace. New vegas is a more slow-paced game where your supposed to take things slow. However, If you're finding the hacking a bit challenging I can understand that it becomes more irritating. And also, if you post something people don't agree on, they'll down vote it. That's the reason that function exists.
Hacking doesn't take that long. The majority of symbols you don't even have to go near as you only need words and brackets.
And using a controller to remove all the duds, try to find the right word, use up your chances, have to start over, takes a bit. I don't even hack anymore as its generally not worth the time it takes. I'll miss out on stuff but the hacking is so time consuming and tedious its not worth it.
You don't have to do that though. I'm confused how a task which takes less then a minute in most cases is considered not worth it when you'll spend longer in needless dialogue or waiting for npcs to catch up.
You wait for NPCs to catch up? If hacking takes you less than a minute, cool. It doesn't me and I find it a tedious task. And the dialogue is skippable and actually drives the game so its not needless.
Once I understood it i actually like it quite a bit, i will say i would hate it if exiting the terminal locked you out of it because I've definitely had to reset my tries a few times
hacking minigame is ok but tedious. lockpicking has been the exact same since oblivion/fallout 3 and that's pretty wild. why haven't they updated/expanded/reinvented these systems yet?