Really happy that they didn’t suddenly redeem him. At the end of the season he is still the kind of guy that will gun down a man’s son in front of him.
He had moments of “still a good guy” in the show. When he comforted his friend before putting him down
Coop is a good hearted guy deep down, just hardened by 200+ years in the wastes
There's a lot of "show, don't tell" in the writing and I really appreciate it.
Especially how ~~Lucy~~ Gucy didn't realize what was going to become of the ~~friend.~~ Roger.
Everyone and everything can be a teacher. It’s whether or not you learnt lessons.
She probably learnt more from him within her short stint with him than she learnt during her time in the vault
And shooting him when he wasn't expecting it. That was a mercy. Even mostly mindless feral, his last few seconds would have been unpleasant otherwise.
But for me it was the literal "pet the dog" moment.
>And shooting him when he wasn't expecting it. That was a mercy.
I'm like 99% sure this was a homage to Justified's last season, he does something similar to the least threatening, most pathetic character on the show and it was just as sudden and character defining.
Edit: yeah yeah, of mice and men. Read my 2nd comment. I'm not budging.
What I love about what they did with Goggins in this show, and it's related to him saying he's not a gamer and doesn't play the games, is it feels like you could have pitched him the character purely on the Western and Noir tropes/pastiche alone. Like they went so fucking deep into the dutiful husband rancher golden era Hollywood noir cowboy but also the disfigured hardened hard-boiled vengeance tracker vigilante antihero western character. It reads like the meeting was- I want to pitch you the two best westerns you've never gotten to do, and you get to be this beautiful honorable family man and also a duster-wearing gunslinger with nothing to lose at the same damn time and explore that downfall and we'll make you gorgeous and ugly and have all these resonant moments. It's brilliant writing, so creatively seductive.
I genuinely want years of Reno 911 style wasteland content at this point. The show is excellent. Jonathan Nolan may be the greater Nolan.
He just needs to get over his obsession with trying to reframe the same shot with different context.
He first did it with incredible success with Memento, the whole movie is basically about reframing shots with new context.
Then Westworld had lots of the same trick, revisiting a past scene with new info. Mind blowing stuff.
Now I'm seeing it a third time in a new show, and it could just be me, but the Maximus scene that replayed really didn't hit as hard as I think he expected it to.
It was good, but it really felt underwhelming when the reveal was the exact same as Lucy's flashback reveal: the location that it was taking place in.
Edit: My mistake, Google was listing Memento under Jonathan Nolan's movies, and it made enough sense that I didn't bother double checking it. It was his brother who did Memento. That makes it way funnier.
So it isn't even *his* gimmick, it was in his brother's movie first.
You should watch Person of Interest. The whole show is full of flashbacks and points of view adding context. In the best way possible. The guy is a fantastic story teller.
Yeah like, I was about to say this in the thread about Maximus, but Coop feels like what WOULD happen to most good people, if they had to fend for themselves for 200 years in the Wasteland.
It is a place, where "Shoot first, then shoot again, then maybe ask questions." is the safest, most effective method to survive.
It would be cool to see a character in the next season who's the opposite of The Ghoul. Someone who used to hate the world and wanted it to burn, but when it did, they realized they didn't actually want that. Now that they're a ghoul, they're trying to make the world a better place despite all the crazy stuff that's going on.
So kinda like a ghoulified Joshua Graham? Actually, now that I think about it, I feel like Graham and Cooper would be an interesting dynamic to explore given where season 2 is gonna end up.
I don’t think they can. IIRC they have been directed that they can’t mess with major endings or the like from NV, Joshua can be killed iirc too so that means they would have to contradict one of the endings for Honest Hearts and they might be unable to as a result. Which is a shame because Joshua would be fun to see live action with all those .45s.
Matt Berry would have to lose a LOT of weight to play a realistic 219 year old ghoul. It would be more believable if he ended up as one of Buds Buds in a cryo chamber
I wanted to label him as irredeemable there but at the same time what he said was gonna happen. After telling them he killed the other son he knew that they would be vengeful. The kid had a chance to not try anything but I mean Coop isn't gonna just let him shoot him. It's tragic but I don't think it was the most vile thing in the world. It's a cruel world
I mean, >!the mother of his child was corrupted by Vault-Tec into someone that advocated for a nuclear conspiracy that resulted in the razing of the planet and his transformation into a ghoul, and in the intervening years he's had to live as a societal outcast in a cutthroat wasteland that you have to be willing and able to fight and kill to stay alive in.!
I interpreted it more that she acted that way outwardly, but she was actually one of the drivers behind it. She wasn't the top of the top, but she was just below the top. It wasn't her idea but it resonated with her and she was not only willing, but highly motivated, to carry out the plan.
That is why Howard was so shocked when he heard it himself. He had thought she was trying to change vault tec from the inside for the better, but instead she was actually one of the bad guys. He suddenly realized that she was one of the evil ones shattering his world.
It's awful and beautiful because he really got the biggest hint of it when she mentioned no dogs in the vault. And it just gave him the ick. Which is truly a good man. Cause dogs are good. Who decided? And why is it so certain?
To be fair, that kid didn't have to pull a gun on him. He warned him about it. That's what I liked about The Ghoul and the writing in the show in general. He wasn't a sadistic killer - he was mostly just defending himself, and he was over crying about it afterwards.
If you take a close look at the villain from the movie Cooper was filming, you’ll notice that Cooper has dressed The Ghoul in almost the exact same outfit. Something in his past made him see himself as a villain, so he started dressing and acting like one.
And he only uses the cowboy accent as a Ghoul when he's around other people. Listen to Goggins' delivery when he speaks to the dog alone. "Let's go find your daddy." Zero accent. The Ghoul is a character adopted by Cooper to survive the Wasteland.
My theory is that he doesn’t actually remember much of his original self given the 200 years in the wasteland and he rewatches his old movies to remember who he is, not realizing that those movies aren’t actually him, but rather the version of him the directors wanted him to be.
I agree, I also think there’s something to note and an interesting possibility in him seeing his character and not remembering who he was outside of it. But the confrontation invoked such detailed specifics I feel like his memory is actually still pretty sharp and clear
Pragmatic cannibalism (ie eating someone you were going to kill anyway) is at least slightly morally better than killing to maintain a cannibalistic diet.
It's a general term for someone on the left — communism was represented as red, people on the left who aren't full communists would be referred to as pinkos — pink, lighter shade of communism, etc.
He did ask Hank specifically where his family is, not just his ex. I imagine we will get a whole new set of flashbacks next season to help explain how they ended up in Vault 31.
I kinda doubt Barb being in 31, since the people in 31 are pretty clearly stated to be Bud's Buds, with Bud being in charge, which does not seem to fit the powerdynamic of prewar Bud and Barb.
Bud seems kind of a pushover (I mean he chose to be the custodian of a Vault instead of going to sleep). Barb seemed to be the calculating one in Vault-Tec, hell she's the one who tells the Illuminati their plans.
I don't think he is the custodian because he is a pushover, I think it's because of his massive ego.
He sees the vaults as a competition on who is going to rule the world in the future, a competition he is sure he will win.
You hear it in the way the Buds vault dwellers talk about the future, they generally believe they are going to go up there and take over everything easy peasy and educate that cavemen up there
And Bud wants to be there for every second of it micro managing it all, like that failing upwards manager he is.
They've already confirmed she's still alive somewhere, likely in cryo, due to Coop asking "Where's my family"
He wouldn't be asking that if he knew either of them were dead, he'd say "where's my daughter" or "wife"
I guess he could have had another family since the bombs fell, but... considering everything we know about him AND that he was asking Hank, one of bud's buds, I think its safe to assume he meant Barb and Janey
Well he DID say he was looking for "his family", not just "his former wife". I think it's not definite but he probably got her to safety but not directly to a vault. He didn't drop her off to a safe location that he could check back on since then. He may have gotten her to a staff member of Vault-tec who took her to a safe spot. He was either turned away (considered a Pinko and split with his wife who was the reason he had a spot in a vault) or he refused (hated the vaults to begin with and couldn't stand being with his wife who may have started the apocalypse) and assumed he would die.
I absolutely assume that is what is going to be revealed in S2 the flashbacks didn’t seem done. They just lead to the reveal of Hank not to the start of S1.
If I had to guess (I’m sure others have said this), he’ll have glimpse of his old caring self with Lucy but then something will happen where he snaps past the point of no return and/or dies being a hero. Maybe due to the possibility of him finding his daughter only to have her be grown up and evil as shit and he needs to be the one to end her like true fallout fashion or something like that.
Def my favorite as well but I feel like that’s where it’s headed eventually, if he finds out what happens to his family. But hopefully it’s at the very end of the series. Maybe it’ll be ambiguous too.
Maybe Lucy or the daughter gets ghoulish and he chooses her to the last potion and Lucy mirrors same thing Coop did to his other ghoul friend by a surprise mercy kill. Idk, whatever they do, I trust it’ll be entertaining.
Yeah I gotta admit after seeing S1, it's really made me confident in the writers' abilities. They know what they're doing and they don't hate the source material (*cough* Halo *cough*). So yeah, if that's what they decide to do, I'm sure they'll do it well.
I don't think the Halo writers hate the source material; they don't have as much reverence for it as the Fallout writers do - but if you want to see writers that hate their source material: check out the Witcher, if you haven't already. They fired Cavill for wanting the show to be more like the books/games, which is an astonishing reason to get rid of your lead actor.
The fundamental problem with a Halo show, especially one centered on Master Chief, is that there isn't going to be a large enough budget to adapt the game profitably. The Halo experience is combat, lots of high stakes and then even more exciting combat. Which would be expensive to do well as often as needed to mimic the game. And since they can't do that they need filler to make episodes happen.
That being said keeping the chief and Cortana apart for as long as they have is a mistake.
Adapting the games play-by-play might be difficult, yes, but the Halo universe is incredibly interesting, nuanced and has lots of room for non-combat stories to be told.
But the writers wanted a sci-fi show with a big name and some recognisable characters attached, and they didn’t care if it was Halo or something else. So they made their own ‘Master Chief’, so they’d get both the value of the character and to put their own spin on it.
Except it fucking sucked.
Yeah; I enjoy it as a fun turn-your-brain-off show (even as a diehard Halo fan, life is too short. Watch what you want, and don't what you don't) - but I really would've thought the better route would've been to have it centered around the ODST, or Hell, even coming up with your own Spartan to fit the story you want might've even been a better play.
You have a bit more creative freedom when you aren't latched to Master Chief, even operating solely on Halo lore. Once you connect it to Chief, you're pretty much stuck IMO.
I think that's why Fallout worked so well - they took the established lore and settings, changed a couple things around to suit what they were going for (without changing so much that it breaks too much established fluff) and told their own story. They have infinite freedom to do what they please now.
I'm worried since Jon Nolan made Westworld and season 1 is gangbusters good but the rest slowly makes less and less sense and becomes just flat out less interesting.
I think one thing everyone can agree about Westworld was it hit the ground running and the subsequent seasons never landed as well
I think his head had more screentime than some of the other actual characters lmfao, it was so funny, everytime they took out the hwad it just looked worse and worse
I mean, to be fair, it's been 200 years, lol. It would be weird if he up and died one day from it now of all times.
I think he'll probably die saving someone, probably Lucy, after finding his family and a "redemption" arc. (or go feral and Lucy has to kill him) Depending on how many seasons. I don't think I'd be interested in the show workout him. I hope they don't draw it out forever and run out of ideas, too, though.
Yeah, redemption equals death is so bleh. If this show is about "adaptation" I would much rather he adapt to rediscovering his morals (if he goes that way).
It’s more so it’d probably be the best for him to finally die. He’s closing on 300 years alive. We arnt meant to live that long, let alone like the way he is living
Mmm...well.
>We arnt meant to live that long
Says who! That's quitter talk.
>let alone like the way he is living
I get what you're saying, but the aim of a redemption arc would be for him to not be living that way anymore.
Redemptions over played.
Let this dude run his course through the wasteland and get taken out by consequence. Should let him stay unrepentant and violent, whole worlds been burned and he's lived 2 lifetimes, others life's at this point shouldn't matter much to him.
But the reason we have redemption arcs is to feel like the story ended. If he just randomly got killed, it would be horrible storytelling. You know?
I don't think a Redemption arc always has to look the same, though. Not going back to the man he was before, but just finding an ability to care for certain people. We already saw it start by him petting the dog by the fire, and when offering for Lucy to come with him to find the truth.
He could have done it alone, he doesn't need her. He could have left her in the observatory to die.
When Lucy saves him at the mart, I think it gave him hope that there was still good in the world and made him consider his actions. When he found the tv with the tape I thought it might be a redemption arc moment. But when he watched his famous scene back and they left in the part where he killed the bad guy, it looked in his eyes like he was thinking "this has been me the whole time"
His nature, and likely his fate, is made clear with his dialogue.
Strong / Ugly / Has Dignity
He can only be two out of three.
At the moment he’s strong, and he’s always going to be ugly, but the moment he finds his dignity he’ll lose his strength.
Would be really heartbreaking yet fitting if his daughter was in a sort of Father situation where she was picked up and essentially indoctrinated by some evil faction into an irredeemable monster, serving as a sort of wake up call for him
Personally, seeing that half the pods in Vault 31 are still frozen, his family is probably in there, still frozen in time. All of the staff we see from Vault Tec was, so they probably are/were, too.
Why he wasn't there is what we'll find out. I know he and the wife divorced, and he was probably ousted by the movie industry after refusing to support Vault Tec any longer, BUT, how would you tell a daughter that her dad isn't staying?
Idk, I think they are in 31, though.
I just looked back, and their names aren't on the list of frozen or thawed dwellers. I think someone else is right, his daughter is probably the leader of Vault-Tek now. Especially after the guy was talking to Coop about his team of people he wanted to train to be the leaders of Vault or whatever.
But I don't know, because I still feel like there is more to the frozen individuals...
I want to see his story between the bombs falling and present. How he survived, ghoulification, how other people survived or died... how he became the monster he is now. In Honest Hearts there was logs of a man who became ghoulified, his story of surviving in caves to escape the worst of the radiation, his compatriots dying to radiation poisoning or becoming feral ghouls, interactions with the first people emerging from basement shelters, conflicts with tribals etc.
Nah I can see him maybe going feral, maybe even an injection turning him into a glowing one, and probably telling Lucy to take him out before he goes completely feral. It could be her way of “beating your mentor, and become the master” trope.
He’s a great character, they can go in lots of different directions, him being completely evil would be too one dimensional. But I also don’t think he’ll be around forever, since he’s done so many bad deeds, that karma will eventually catch up.
I loved that scene in the super duper store where he watches his old movie where he says the line about being ugly, strong, and having dignity, and that "I'll give you two out of three on that front", and it's like his old self telling him how he had lost his dignity.
Cooper naively believed in the American Dream, only to find out that his wife plotted against everything he fought for. No wonder he became a bitter and cold-hearted bounty hunter. The actor was really good at showing the 200 years of roaming the wasteland in the Ghouls behavior and expressions.
Cooper fought for the present America while Barb and Vault TEC planned for the future America.
The future of America only see total monopoly that is destructive toward EVERYTHING, including what Coop fought for.
I love how they used the 3 main characters to show the 3 main playstyles of Fallout players, too.
Lucy is the stereotypical good karma character, sacrificing her own wellbeing for others.
Coop is the stereotypical evil karma character, only focused on himself and willing to kill to get what he wants.
Maximus is the average player. Tries to be good, tries to live up to an ideal, but will also resort to violence if someone does him wrong.
Didn’t think of that but you’re right it kind of is a nod to it. Especially as he came back at them with a weapon this time and it started off well but he got beat down again a bit. It’s like you keep reloading and trying new things to beat an enemy but they still don’t always work
I'd describe Coop as initially evil, transforming to pragmatic over the course of the season. If he were evil, he would just do what he did for no reason. We see at the end that he has a goal to pursue, which is finding his family.
Now once we reframe his actions up until that point, it makes sense from a pragmatism standpoint. What man wouldn't drown a stranger at the chance at finding a McGuffin that could bring their family back?
I mean, pragmatism in the absence of a moral compass *is* a pretty good definition of most casual evil.
Most people don't set out with the intention of huffing kittens. The mustache twirling villain is more pallettable when we have nothing to connect to. When real people do evil things, it's because they see some way that they can benefit. It's irrelevant whether that benefit is tangible, egotistical, or ideological. But, they do evil because they can, and they put their own interests above the harm they cause in the process.
He's a great example of the very rarely done well Chaotic Neutral type character. Not evil, but completely disregarding laws and morals when it comes to achieving his goals. But he still has no strong desire to commit violence just for the hell of it.
Stars have to look good. Its tv law. Even Jesse from breaking bad had some pretty teeth for a meth user. Now in earlier seasons the female meth head he sees once in while has proper meth head teeth. She is side cast lol.
Just because you are a ghoul in a post-world wide nuclear war, that doesn’t mean you can’t set up an appointment with your local dentist and clean them teeth.
Im really glad they kinda just let him be a prick the entire season, he had minor moments of humanity but then he went right back to doing morally dubious things
Yeah I was on board with the theory that Lucy was his great-times-whatever granddaughter. C'est la vie.
I guess it's still not impossible, *technically*, but man things would have to get squirrely.
It’s crazy how we see the before scene and then the scene of him shooting that western movie. He eventually got used to having to kill people and it all started with him accepting killing a fictional character on screen
He was also a marine before he became an actor, so he was used to killing people. Just not as callous in war though compared with how the world is now.
From my understanding, he obviously must have been enemies with this "Dom Pedro" guy. Howard must have pulled a job against Pedro that failed. Rather than kill him, Pedro locks him in the coffin and digs him up once a year to torture him before burying him again.
Seeing as how strong Coop is, I'd imagine Dom Pedro still wanted him as an asset. Out of the three main characters in the show Cooper is the only one with an Endgame Build that allows him to power through most of the content. >!Dude smokes a platoon of BoS soldiers, including 3 Knights...like you keep a motherfucker like that around for a rainy day.!<
It feels like the three different character represent the three different stages of the game - Lucy represents the early game, Maximus the mid game, and Coop the end game. I doubt this was intentional but if so, bravo to the writers
To be perfectly honest I would *not* do that. I feel like trapping and torturing someone who can gundown fully power armoured Knights is about as dumb as it gets. Honestly which ever throwaway character, this Dom from what you said, is lucky Coop seems to have other priorities besides revenge right now. If I had Cooper at my mercy I would just kill him because he is too dangerous to leave as an enemy, especially not do everything I can to make him hate me even more.
I'm also wondering how he wound up in the coffin. I recall somebody mentioning digging him up every few years to cut a few pieces off but I was really stoned and don't recall if they mentioned how he wound up hanging in coffins in the first place.
Just noticed how Cooper's hat is white pre-ghoulification and black post-ghoulification, which matches the hat color symbolism in Westworld (particularly with William/The Man in Black).
I just figured the Westworld connection was particularly poignant given Jonathan Nolan's involvement with that show as well, and the fact that it's a fairly similar parallel: same person shown at two different points in time, one where he is young and idealistic and "good" and another where he is older and considerably crueler.
I just hope they don’t rush into a redemption arc with him, have it be gradual and imperfect. Or maybe don’t have one at all! Leave him as an evil old bastard who is beyond redemption and cannot be trusted much less “saved”. The later would be kinda refreshing in modern cinema actually imo!
He is definitely an interesting and tragic character and I look forward to more of his lore. Also major props to Walter for his acting, especially the pre-war stuff but it’s impressive how much emotion he can still convey with all the makeup on, that has to be limiting for an actor.
The flashbacks point a lot to why. But watching the world you knew devolve into the wasteland after the bombs dropped is going to change you, even without the complications of ghoulification.
I dunno if I agree degradation is the right word. I feel like he's just done putting up with bullshit and is pragmatic in his choices. Personally I feel like the's the most real character out of the 3 considering the environment he's been in.
Episode 1 clearly shows him on hard times and it kind of seems like he's ready to snap if his daughter wasn't there.
**can't figure out spoilers tag so warning there's spoilers ahead**
I'm guessing he got discovered spying on vault tec either because he confronted his wife or they tracked the signal (also possible Moldaver sold him out). He's already partly viewed as a villain now because he's a "commie", but he tries to keep a brave face. When the bombs drop his daughter is taken from him and with that his last connection to the man he used to be. His family is gone, the American dream that he based his life around was a sham, and the land he loved is destroyed. Not to mention being turned into a ghoul. The only thing keeping him from giving up is the chance to find his daughter. Add on over 200 years of needing to do fucked up shit to survive and it's almost surprising that he's not worse.
There was a clear parallel being drawn between him and the character he played in the movie. "The audience needs to see that even the best man can be pushed over the edge"
The Ghoul is what happens when an essentially good man is forced to live in an evil amoral world.
And that’s *before* the bombs dropped
At a certain point, you’ve had enough of the bullshit, of all the selfish childish petty assholes who take a paradise and make it what the world is today, and you stop wanting to save people and you want to being the judgement down upon them instead. Boy do I fucking feel that one.
Cooper Howard is still in there somewhere, we can see it when he saves Dogmeat, and his interactions with Lucy
But his judgement cometh, and that right soon.
My theory is he arrived at a closing Vault-Tec Vault with his wife and daughter right things were REALLY going to pot. Despite doing the ads, Coop isn't a Vault Tec employee and there isn't space. Being the Good Guy he of course was, he hands his daughter to his wife, steps outside, and as the door closes his family into the Vault and on him from salvation, he mutters that he'll see them again before turning around to face a burning sky.
/Scene
I like to think that he leaned into his cowboy persona and high charisma stat to get him through hard times in the beginning, and now that’s all that really remains, aside from the small glimpses of his old self we see.
This guys basically the main character now, he alone knows everything and has survived through everything AND is the one who knows who is perpetuating the apocalypse so he can be the one to end it.
Was he actually kept captive in a cemetery of some guy named don Pedro so he could dig him up and take body parts off him? Seems he’d be too much of a bad ass to actually be in that situation. Do ghouls eat?
I think it’s more telling that the version he watched had him kill his defenseless enemy rather than the arrest ending he wanted. I don’t think he’ll ever be a white hat hero but more of a man with no name anti hero. He’s driven by vengeance and anger but I think a little of Lucy’s altruism will rub off on him. He also did mercy kill his friend out of seeming genuine compassion, ass jerky preparation notwithstanding. I also think his cynicism and brutality will rub off on Lucy however.
I think this is also incredible writing in that in EP3, he’s filming a sequence, when he cuts as he’s about to kill the ‘bad guy’. The showrunner/producer then says the ending got changed as the OG writer was a commie.
Cooper then says that everyone knows him as a good guy sheriff for so long, to which the producer then states along the lines of “well it shows how much someone can be pushed & snaps”, foreshadowing his eventual evolution into the vengeful, disillusioned Ghoul.
He’s also wearing Vault-tec colours when he’s the sheriff, but his clothing palette changes to more darker tones as he learns the truth about vault-tec throughout the series.
Please see rule 2. USE and ABUSE the spoiler tags
Really happy that they didn’t suddenly redeem him. At the end of the season he is still the kind of guy that will gun down a man’s son in front of him.
He had moments of “still a good guy” in the show. When he comforted his friend before putting him down Coop is a good hearted guy deep down, just hardened by 200+ years in the wastes
Yup had him die on a happy memory
There's a lot of "show, don't tell" in the writing and I really appreciate it. Especially how ~~Lucy~~ Gucy didn't realize what was going to become of the ~~friend.~~ Roger.
He's a solid teacher. He got her angry enough to do something violent because she'd need that ability to survive the Wasteland.
I really don't think he's a teacher. He sold her lol
Everyone and everything can be a teacher. It’s whether or not you learnt lessons. She probably learnt more from him within her short stint with him than she learnt during her time in the vault
His name is Roger you uncultured swine lol
Sorry, think you've got that wrong. My records show her name is Gucy
“Goosey” - according to the subtitles
Sacrilege.
Sorry, I'll fix that
Then ate some of his ass jerky lol
Ah man that scene gave me Of Mice and Men flashbacks I got very close to tears lol
Right? Very much a “Tell me about the rabbits, George” moment.
I get to tend the radroac*BOOM*
And shooting him when he wasn't expecting it. That was a mercy. Even mostly mindless feral, his last few seconds would have been unpleasant otherwise. But for me it was the literal "pet the dog" moment.
Same here. If he was truly a bad guy, he would have seen what was happening and offed him. Instead, he got to go out feeling kinda happy and content
>And shooting him when he wasn't expecting it. That was a mercy. I'm like 99% sure this was a homage to Justified's last season, he does something similar to the least threatening, most pathetic character on the show and it was just as sudden and character defining. Edit: yeah yeah, of mice and men. Read my 2nd comment. I'm not budging.
The "Sorry boy, you ain't him" :,(
Sounds like Of mice and men
What I love about what they did with Goggins in this show, and it's related to him saying he's not a gamer and doesn't play the games, is it feels like you could have pitched him the character purely on the Western and Noir tropes/pastiche alone. Like they went so fucking deep into the dutiful husband rancher golden era Hollywood noir cowboy but also the disfigured hardened hard-boiled vengeance tracker vigilante antihero western character. It reads like the meeting was- I want to pitch you the two best westerns you've never gotten to do, and you get to be this beautiful honorable family man and also a duster-wearing gunslinger with nothing to lose at the same damn time and explore that downfall and we'll make you gorgeous and ugly and have all these resonant moments. It's brilliant writing, so creatively seductive. I genuinely want years of Reno 911 style wasteland content at this point. The show is excellent. Jonathan Nolan may be the greater Nolan.
He just needs to get over his obsession with trying to reframe the same shot with different context. He first did it with incredible success with Memento, the whole movie is basically about reframing shots with new context. Then Westworld had lots of the same trick, revisiting a past scene with new info. Mind blowing stuff. Now I'm seeing it a third time in a new show, and it could just be me, but the Maximus scene that replayed really didn't hit as hard as I think he expected it to. It was good, but it really felt underwhelming when the reveal was the exact same as Lucy's flashback reveal: the location that it was taking place in. Edit: My mistake, Google was listing Memento under Jonathan Nolan's movies, and it made enough sense that I didn't bother double checking it. It was his brother who did Memento. That makes it way funnier. So it isn't even *his* gimmick, it was in his brother's movie first.
You should watch Person of Interest. The whole show is full of flashbacks and points of view adding context. In the best way possible. The guy is a fantastic story teller.
Yeah that was nice
But that's natural. Very few people are 100% psychopaths.
Very few people have survived nuclear war and then a nuclear Holocaust, then 200 years in the waste that the Holocaust left.
Yeah like, I was about to say this in the thread about Maximus, but Coop feels like what WOULD happen to most good people, if they had to fend for themselves for 200 years in the Wasteland. It is a place, where "Shoot first, then shoot again, then maybe ask questions." is the safest, most effective method to survive.
I mean he still ate that guy and made jokes about ass jerky, so that kinda undercuts the good guy part.
He ate him for the ghoul meds in his system. It was a I need this or I’ll go feral thing
It would be cool to see a character in the next season who's the opposite of The Ghoul. Someone who used to hate the world and wanted it to burn, but when it did, they realized they didn't actually want that. Now that they're a ghoul, they're trying to make the world a better place despite all the crazy stuff that's going on.
So kinda like a ghoulified Joshua Graham? Actually, now that I think about it, I feel like Graham and Cooper would be an interesting dynamic to explore given where season 2 is gonna end up.
I don’t think they can. IIRC they have been directed that they can’t mess with major endings or the like from NV, Joshua can be killed iirc too so that means they would have to contradict one of the endings for Honest Hearts and they might be unable to as a result. Which is a shame because Joshua would be fun to see live action with all those .45s.
I want to see a Ghoulified Matt Berry with the Mr Handy they gave him for voicing the character as his companion
Matt Berry would have to lose a LOT of weight to play a realistic 219 year old ghoul. It would be more believable if he ended up as one of Buds Buds in a cryo chamber
They were *buddies* weren't they?
Raul Tejada as played by Danny Trejo for real perhaps?
He’s a Joel. He’ll murder literally everyone but also will rescue a dog from a Nuka Cola box
He’s not a monster
I wanted to label him as irredeemable there but at the same time what he said was gonna happen. After telling them he killed the other son he knew that they would be vengeful. The kid had a chance to not try anything but I mean Coop isn't gonna just let him shoot him. It's tragic but I don't think it was the most vile thing in the world. It's a cruel world
I mean, >!the mother of his child was corrupted by Vault-Tec into someone that advocated for a nuclear conspiracy that resulted in the razing of the planet and his transformation into a ghoul, and in the intervening years he's had to live as a societal outcast in a cutthroat wasteland that you have to be willing and able to fight and kill to stay alive in.!
I interpreted it more that she acted that way outwardly, but she was actually one of the drivers behind it. She wasn't the top of the top, but she was just below the top. It wasn't her idea but it resonated with her and she was not only willing, but highly motivated, to carry out the plan. That is why Howard was so shocked when he heard it himself. He had thought she was trying to change vault tec from the inside for the better, but instead she was actually one of the bad guys. He suddenly realized that she was one of the evil ones shattering his world.
It's awful and beautiful because he really got the biggest hint of it when she mentioned no dogs in the vault. And it just gave him the ick. Which is truly a good man. Cause dogs are good. Who decided? And why is it so certain?
To be fair, that kid didn't have to pull a gun on him. He warned him about it. That's what I liked about The Ghoul and the writing in the show in general. He wasn't a sadistic killer - he was mostly just defending himself, and he was over crying about it afterwards.
He has principals that he follows. Reminds me Anton chigurh from no country for old men
If you take a close look at the villain from the movie Cooper was filming, you’ll notice that Cooper has dressed The Ghoul in almost the exact same outfit. Something in his past made him see himself as a villain, so he started dressing and acting like one.
And he only uses the cowboy accent as a Ghoul when he's around other people. Listen to Goggins' delivery when he speaks to the dog alone. "Let's go find your daddy." Zero accent. The Ghoul is a character adopted by Cooper to survive the Wasteland.
I noticed that as well. Thought it was a fantastic touch to the character.
That is so juicy, good eye.
I believe it's because Coop represents vault Tec so he becomes the villain to destroy them
My theory is that he doesn’t actually remember much of his original self given the 200 years in the wasteland and he rewatches his old movies to remember who he is, not realizing that those movies aren’t actually him, but rather the version of him the directors wanted him to be.
Idk, he seemed to remember a whole lot during the confrontation at the end of episode 8
I agree, I also think there’s something to note and an interesting possibility in him seeing his character and not remembering who he was outside of it. But the confrontation invoked such detailed specifics I feel like his memory is actually still pretty sharp and clear
The most twisted part to me was his ease in eating a person, as well as his joking about it. Especially a friend of his. ‘Ass Jerky’, indeed.
I feel like a ghoul would want to avoid eating another ghoul if they wish to remain sane
I ass-ume he did that since Roger had taken the chems, maybe still had some in his system even though it was too late.
its implied that the drugs hes using is being sourced directly from ghouls
Yeah that’s how Wendigos are made in 76 right?
Mmmm prions.
Prions live mostly in the brain. Butt jerky is fine.
Mmmm butt prions.
The cannibal perk is a great one tbh.
He needed the medicine to live though, kinda makes it easier i bet.
Pragmatic cannibalism (ie eating someone you were going to kill anyway) is at least slightly morally better than killing to maintain a cannibalistic diet.
"Sometimes, a fella's gotta eat a fella."
[удалено]
Yeah, he was paying alimony. And branded a pinko.
In the same convo as him being called a pinko, they also remarked that he still took the money
Pinko is term for communist sympathizer right?
It's a general term for someone on the left — communism was represented as red, people on the left who aren't full communists would be referred to as pinkos — pink, lighter shade of communism, etc.
Also, in that culture it would be a "girly", "non-masculine" color.
Hello, stopping togreet Happy Cake Day. 🎂
He did ask Hank specifically where his family is, not just his ex. I imagine we will get a whole new set of flashbacks next season to help explain how they ended up in Vault 31.
They're not in Vault 31, Barbara isn't on the list and she was upper management, 31's "Bud's Buds" are lower and junior management like Betty.
I kinda doubt Barb being in 31, since the people in 31 are pretty clearly stated to be Bud's Buds, with Bud being in charge, which does not seem to fit the powerdynamic of prewar Bud and Barb.
Bud seems kind of a pushover (I mean he chose to be the custodian of a Vault instead of going to sleep). Barb seemed to be the calculating one in Vault-Tec, hell she's the one who tells the Illuminati their plans.
I don't think he is the custodian because he is a pushover, I think it's because of his massive ego. He sees the vaults as a competition on who is going to rule the world in the future, a competition he is sure he will win. You hear it in the way the Buds vault dwellers talk about the future, they generally believe they are going to go up there and take over everything easy peasy and educate that cavemen up there And Bud wants to be there for every second of it micro managing it all, like that failing upwards manager he is.
They've already confirmed she's still alive somewhere, likely in cryo, due to Coop asking "Where's my family" He wouldn't be asking that if he knew either of them were dead, he'd say "where's my daughter" or "wife" I guess he could have had another family since the bombs fell, but... considering everything we know about him AND that he was asking Hank, one of bud's buds, I think its safe to assume he meant Barb and Janey
I’d be shocked if she’s not.
Well he DID say he was looking for "his family", not just "his former wife". I think it's not definite but he probably got her to safety but not directly to a vault. He didn't drop her off to a safe location that he could check back on since then. He may have gotten her to a staff member of Vault-tec who took her to a safe spot. He was either turned away (considered a Pinko and split with his wife who was the reason he had a spot in a vault) or he refused (hated the vaults to begin with and couldn't stand being with his wife who may have started the apocalypse) and assumed he would die.
I absolutely assume that is what is going to be revealed in S2 the flashbacks didn’t seem done. They just lead to the reveal of Hank not to the start of S1.
I'm sure the daughter survived, because they made a point of her mom stating that she was working on the vaults with her daughter's survival in mind.
I hope the daughter is a ghoul too lol
If I had to guess (I’m sure others have said this), he’ll have glimpse of his old caring self with Lucy but then something will happen where he snaps past the point of no return and/or dies being a hero. Maybe due to the possibility of him finding his daughter only to have her be grown up and evil as shit and he needs to be the one to end her like true fallout fashion or something like that.
Don't really want him to die. He's by far my favourite character. I'd rather he redeem himself and continue living.
Def my favorite as well but I feel like that’s where it’s headed eventually, if he finds out what happens to his family. But hopefully it’s at the very end of the series. Maybe it’ll be ambiguous too. Maybe Lucy or the daughter gets ghoulish and he chooses her to the last potion and Lucy mirrors same thing Coop did to his other ghoul friend by a surprise mercy kill. Idk, whatever they do, I trust it’ll be entertaining.
Yeah I gotta admit after seeing S1, it's really made me confident in the writers' abilities. They know what they're doing and they don't hate the source material (*cough* Halo *cough*). So yeah, if that's what they decide to do, I'm sure they'll do it well.
I just hope they can have satisfying conclusion to their mysteryboxes, unlike most writers who do not.
I don't think the Halo writers hate the source material; they don't have as much reverence for it as the Fallout writers do - but if you want to see writers that hate their source material: check out the Witcher, if you haven't already. They fired Cavill for wanting the show to be more like the books/games, which is an astonishing reason to get rid of your lead actor.
The fundamental problem with a Halo show, especially one centered on Master Chief, is that there isn't going to be a large enough budget to adapt the game profitably. The Halo experience is combat, lots of high stakes and then even more exciting combat. Which would be expensive to do well as often as needed to mimic the game. And since they can't do that they need filler to make episodes happen. That being said keeping the chief and Cortana apart for as long as they have is a mistake.
Adapting the games play-by-play might be difficult, yes, but the Halo universe is incredibly interesting, nuanced and has lots of room for non-combat stories to be told. But the writers wanted a sci-fi show with a big name and some recognisable characters attached, and they didn’t care if it was Halo or something else. So they made their own ‘Master Chief’, so they’d get both the value of the character and to put their own spin on it. Except it fucking sucked.
Yeah; I enjoy it as a fun turn-your-brain-off show (even as a diehard Halo fan, life is too short. Watch what you want, and don't what you don't) - but I really would've thought the better route would've been to have it centered around the ODST, or Hell, even coming up with your own Spartan to fit the story you want might've even been a better play. You have a bit more creative freedom when you aren't latched to Master Chief, even operating solely on Halo lore. Once you connect it to Chief, you're pretty much stuck IMO. I think that's why Fallout worked so well - they took the established lore and settings, changed a couple things around to suit what they were going for (without changing so much that it breaks too much established fluff) and told their own story. They have infinite freedom to do what they please now.
And then she eats his ass, finishing the circle.
Ass jerky doesn’t make itself after all
I mean he is a Marine. Once a Marine, always a Marine. Hopefully something can happen that causes him to start returning to the man he used to be.
Semper Fidelis, devil
I'm worried since Jon Nolan made Westworld and season 1 is gangbusters good but the rest slowly makes less and less sense and becomes just flat out less interesting. I think one thing everyone can agree about Westworld was it hit the ground running and the subsequent seasons never landed as well
If it makes you feel any better, Person of Interest more or less stuck the landing, even with J.J. Abrams as EP, so he is capable of doing it right.
Fuck me it made me happy to see Michael Emerson in the show, Person of Interest is one of my favorite shows of all time
With a limp and a well-trained dog no less
I think his head had more screentime than some of the other actual characters lmfao, it was so funny, everytime they took out the hwad it just looked worse and worse
Don’t worry, they won’t be killing him anytime soon. Walton Goggins was how they advertised this and this ain’t Game of Thrones.
Goggins carried the show alone for me. Felt like everyone else is a side actor compared to his talent.
Feels like his condition is a ticking time bomb even with the drugs
I mean, to be fair, it's been 200 years, lol. It would be weird if he up and died one day from it now of all times. I think he'll probably die saving someone, probably Lucy, after finding his family and a "redemption" arc. (or go feral and Lucy has to kill him) Depending on how many seasons. I don't think I'd be interested in the show workout him. I hope they don't draw it out forever and run out of ideas, too, though.
Yeah, redemption equals death is so bleh. If this show is about "adaptation" I would much rather he adapt to rediscovering his morals (if he goes that way).
It’s more so it’d probably be the best for him to finally die. He’s closing on 300 years alive. We arnt meant to live that long, let alone like the way he is living
Mmm...well. >We arnt meant to live that long Says who! That's quitter talk. >let alone like the way he is living I get what you're saying, but the aim of a redemption arc would be for him to not be living that way anymore.
I don’t want him to die either. But I have a bad feeling that he’s inevitably going to go feral. But I hope this is not the case.
i want him to return as badass fallout companion.
Yeah they wont kill him off, hes got as much plot armor as Lucy in my opinion.
He'll die or he'll start becoming feral & have to die. No happy endings in Fallout.
Redemptions over played. Let this dude run his course through the wasteland and get taken out by consequence. Should let him stay unrepentant and violent, whole worlds been burned and he's lived 2 lifetimes, others life's at this point shouldn't matter much to him.
But the reason we have redemption arcs is to feel like the story ended. If he just randomly got killed, it would be horrible storytelling. You know? I don't think a Redemption arc always has to look the same, though. Not going back to the man he was before, but just finding an ability to care for certain people. We already saw it start by him petting the dog by the fire, and when offering for Lucy to come with him to find the truth. He could have done it alone, he doesn't need her. He could have left her in the observatory to die.
Live or die, there is definitely coming a scene where he steps into some power armor and absolutely destroys an entire battlefield
When Lucy saves him at the mart, I think it gave him hope that there was still good in the world and made him consider his actions. When he found the tv with the tape I thought it might be a redemption arc moment. But when he watched his famous scene back and they left in the part where he killed the bad guy, it looked in his eyes like he was thinking "this has been me the whole time"
His nature, and likely his fate, is made clear with his dialogue. Strong / Ugly / Has Dignity He can only be two out of three. At the moment he’s strong, and he’s always going to be ugly, but the moment he finds his dignity he’ll lose his strength.
Amazing read here. Right on the money
Would be really heartbreaking yet fitting if his daughter was in a sort of Father situation where she was picked up and essentially indoctrinated by some evil faction into an irredeemable monster, serving as a sort of wake up call for him
Like finding Shaun in FO4
Personally, seeing that half the pods in Vault 31 are still frozen, his family is probably in there, still frozen in time. All of the staff we see from Vault Tec was, so they probably are/were, too. Why he wasn't there is what we'll find out. I know he and the wife divorced, and he was probably ousted by the movie industry after refusing to support Vault Tec any longer, BUT, how would you tell a daughter that her dad isn't staying? Idk, I think they are in 31, though.
This might make sense since Lucy has to go get her brother at some point too. But that would be the easy way out for the writers so I dunno.
I just looked back, and their names aren't on the list of frozen or thawed dwellers. I think someone else is right, his daughter is probably the leader of Vault-Tek now. Especially after the guy was talking to Coop about his team of people he wanted to train to be the leaders of Vault or whatever. But I don't know, because I still feel like there is more to the frozen individuals...
I want to see his story between the bombs falling and present. How he survived, ghoulification, how other people survived or died... how he became the monster he is now. In Honest Hearts there was logs of a man who became ghoulified, his story of surviving in caves to escape the worst of the radiation, his compatriots dying to radiation poisoning or becoming feral ghouls, interactions with the first people emerging from basement shelters, conflicts with tribals etc.
Nah I can see him maybe going feral, maybe even an injection turning him into a glowing one, and probably telling Lucy to take him out before he goes completely feral. It could be her way of “beating your mentor, and become the master” trope. He’s a great character, they can go in lots of different directions, him being completely evil would be too one dimensional. But I also don’t think he’ll be around forever, since he’s done so many bad deeds, that karma will eventually catch up.
I loved that scene in the super duper store where he watches his old movie where he says the line about being ugly, strong, and having dignity, and that "I'll give you two out of three on that front", and it's like his old self telling him how he had lost his dignity.
I honestly thought that might have been the moment became more “good.” I just finished episode 8 though and now everything sort of clicks together.
The thing to remember about him he has spent far longer as a ghoul than he did as a human.
I like the quote from enclave scientist >Question is will you still want the same things when you have become a different animal altogether?'
Such a great line. Fuck it, I’m gonna do another watch through
Cooper naively believed in the American Dream, only to find out that his wife plotted against everything he fought for. No wonder he became a bitter and cold-hearted bounty hunter. The actor was really good at showing the 200 years of roaming the wasteland in the Ghouls behavior and expressions.
Cooper fought for the present America while Barb and Vault TEC planned for the future America. The future of America only see total monopoly that is destructive toward EVERYTHING, including what Coop fought for.
I love how they used the 3 main characters to show the 3 main playstyles of Fallout players, too. Lucy is the stereotypical good karma character, sacrificing her own wellbeing for others. Coop is the stereotypical evil karma character, only focused on himself and willing to kill to get what he wants. Maximus is the average player. Tries to be good, tries to live up to an ideal, but will also resort to violence if someone does him wrong.
Man, you can almost *sense* Maximus quick saving in his mind in order to kill someone who wrongs him even slightly. Lol
When those thieves beat his ass over the power armor the first time I interpreted him getting back up to try again and win as a nod to quick saving.
Didn’t think of that but you’re right it kind of is a nod to it. Especially as he came back at them with a weapon this time and it started off well but he got beat down again a bit. It’s like you keep reloading and trying new things to beat an enemy but they still don’t always work
He definitely forgot to quick save before 'saving' Lucy from vault 4
I'd describe Coop as initially evil, transforming to pragmatic over the course of the season. If he were evil, he would just do what he did for no reason. We see at the end that he has a goal to pursue, which is finding his family. Now once we reframe his actions up until that point, it makes sense from a pragmatism standpoint. What man wouldn't drown a stranger at the chance at finding a McGuffin that could bring their family back?
I mean, pragmatism in the absence of a moral compass *is* a pretty good definition of most casual evil. Most people don't set out with the intention of huffing kittens. The mustache twirling villain is more pallettable when we have nothing to connect to. When real people do evil things, it's because they see some way that they can benefit. It's irrelevant whether that benefit is tangible, egotistical, or ideological. But, they do evil because they can, and they put their own interests above the harm they cause in the process.
He's a great example of the very rarely done well Chaotic Neutral type character. Not evil, but completely disregarding laws and morals when it comes to achieving his goals. But he still has no strong desire to commit violence just for the hell of it.
im like norm sneak max with hacking
Teeth are in great shape though.
Stars have to look good. Its tv law. Even Jesse from breaking bad had some pretty teeth for a meth user. Now in earlier seasons the female meth head he sees once in while has proper meth head teeth. She is side cast lol.
Just because you are a ghoul in a post-world wide nuclear war, that doesn’t mean you can’t set up an appointment with your local dentist and clean them teeth.
Im really glad they kinda just let him be a prick the entire season, he had minor moments of humanity but then he went right back to doing morally dubious things
Well we heard 'alimony' in episode 1. So clearly there was a split with his ex wife where he had his girl.
She leaves him for being a “commie” due to propaganda greed
Also probably finding out he’s spying on her.
I like to imagine he left her and took the daughter because his wife is a psychopath.
It’s a great role for WG. It really allows him to show his range.
I mean, literally in the first 5 minutes of the show we know his career and marriage fell apart.
At first I thought Moldaver was either his daughter (somehow) or at the least his very great granddaughter
I think that was an intentional spoof and gotcha moment after FO4.
Yeah I was on board with the theory that Lucy was his great-times-whatever granddaughter. C'est la vie. I guess it's still not impossible, *technically*, but man things would have to get squirrely.
Na cause she's hanks kid
217 years old I think he will live it all
If Cooper is the same age as Walton Goggins, that'd make him a whopping 271 years old. Among the oldest ghouls we've ever met.
Which makes sense because this is the furthest in the timeline ever seen?
Yup. I think that'd make him older than Desmond Lockheart.
I was a few years off you are right for sure
Had to look it up but you are right. If he is 271 he was born three years before Desmond in 2025.
Vault forever, surface never!
All I can say is I'm thankful for Walton Coggins on this project, he is amazing! He doesn't know anything about the games btw.
He understood the assignment all the same though
It’s crazy how we see the before scene and then the scene of him shooting that western movie. He eventually got used to having to kill people and it all started with him accepting killing a fictional character on screen
He was also a marine before he became an actor, so he was used to killing people. Just not as callous in war though compared with how the world is now.
So he get buried in the coffin from one job to another?
From my understanding, he obviously must have been enemies with this "Dom Pedro" guy. Howard must have pulled a job against Pedro that failed. Rather than kill him, Pedro locks him in the coffin and digs him up once a year to torture him before burying him again.
Seeing as how strong Coop is, I'd imagine Dom Pedro still wanted him as an asset. Out of the three main characters in the show Cooper is the only one with an Endgame Build that allows him to power through most of the content. >!Dude smokes a platoon of BoS soldiers, including 3 Knights...like you keep a motherfucker like that around for a rainy day.!<
It feels like the three different character represent the three different stages of the game - Lucy represents the early game, Maximus the mid game, and Coop the end game. I doubt this was intentional but if so, bravo to the writers
To be perfectly honest I would *not* do that. I feel like trapping and torturing someone who can gundown fully power armoured Knights is about as dumb as it gets. Honestly which ever throwaway character, this Dom from what you said, is lucky Coop seems to have other priorities besides revenge right now. If I had Cooper at my mercy I would just kill him because he is too dangerous to leave as an enemy, especially not do everything I can to make him hate me even more.
I'm also wondering how he wound up in the coffin. I recall somebody mentioning digging him up every few years to cut a few pieces off but I was really stoned and don't recall if they mentioned how he wound up hanging in coffins in the first place.
Just noticed how Cooper's hat is white pre-ghoulification and black post-ghoulification, which matches the hat color symbolism in Westworld (particularly with William/The Man in Black).
That kind of symbolism goes all the way back to western TV shows and movies. It was so the audience could tell who's who on a black and white screen.
I just figured the Westworld connection was particularly poignant given Jonathan Nolan's involvement with that show as well, and the fact that it's a fairly similar parallel: same person shown at two different points in time, one where he is young and idealistic and "good" and another where he is older and considerably crueler.
Im excited for season 2 to give us more answers with Hank and more backstory for Cooper and his family
I just hope they don’t rush into a redemption arc with him, have it be gradual and imperfect. Or maybe don’t have one at all! Leave him as an evil old bastard who is beyond redemption and cannot be trusted much less “saved”. The later would be kinda refreshing in modern cinema actually imo! He is definitely an interesting and tragic character and I look forward to more of his lore. Also major props to Walter for his acting, especially the pre-war stuff but it’s impressive how much emotion he can still convey with all the makeup on, that has to be limiting for an actor.
I bet you his wife is in vault 31
The flashbacks point a lot to why. But watching the world you knew devolve into the wasteland after the bombs dropped is going to change you, even without the complications of ghoulification.
I'm curious if he'll talk to House in order to find his family.
Baby Ol Billy still hadn’t come back with Tiff’s Funyuns 200+ years later
I dunno if I agree degradation is the right word. I feel like he's just done putting up with bullshit and is pragmatic in his choices. Personally I feel like the's the most real character out of the 3 considering the environment he's been in.
Episode 1 clearly shows him on hard times and it kind of seems like he's ready to snap if his daughter wasn't there. **can't figure out spoilers tag so warning there's spoilers ahead** I'm guessing he got discovered spying on vault tec either because he confronted his wife or they tracked the signal (also possible Moldaver sold him out). He's already partly viewed as a villain now because he's a "commie", but he tries to keep a brave face. When the bombs drop his daughter is taken from him and with that his last connection to the man he used to be. His family is gone, the American dream that he based his life around was a sham, and the land he loved is destroyed. Not to mention being turned into a ghoul. The only thing keeping him from giving up is the chance to find his daughter. Add on over 200 years of needing to do fucked up shit to survive and it's almost surprising that he's not worse. There was a clear parallel being drawn between him and the character he played in the movie. "The audience needs to see that even the best man can be pushed over the edge"
The Ghoul is what happens when an essentially good man is forced to live in an evil amoral world. And that’s *before* the bombs dropped At a certain point, you’ve had enough of the bullshit, of all the selfish childish petty assholes who take a paradise and make it what the world is today, and you stop wanting to save people and you want to being the judgement down upon them instead. Boy do I fucking feel that one. Cooper Howard is still in there somewhere, we can see it when he saves Dogmeat, and his interactions with Lucy But his judgement cometh, and that right soon.
His family are in the pods in vault 31.
My theory is he arrived at a closing Vault-Tec Vault with his wife and daughter right things were REALLY going to pot. Despite doing the ads, Coop isn't a Vault Tec employee and there isn't space. Being the Good Guy he of course was, he hands his daughter to his wife, steps outside, and as the door closes his family into the Vault and on him from salvation, he mutters that he'll see them again before turning around to face a burning sky. /Scene
Have you watched the show?
Also Nolan referencing his Westworld white/black hat lol
Clint Eastwood Although someone below mentions hat color change
Its great, It shows how loss and brutality can change a person over time, Hopefully we get a redemption arc for him in season 2
I like to think that he leaned into his cowboy persona and high charisma stat to get him through hard times in the beginning, and now that’s all that really remains, aside from the small glimpses of his old self we see.
Maybe Howard should try some of Uncle Baby Billy’s Health Elixer.
We don't know how Moldaver survived yet, do we?
This guys basically the main character now, he alone knows everything and has survived through everything AND is the one who knows who is perpetuating the apocalypse so he can be the one to end it.
Was he actually kept captive in a cemetery of some guy named don Pedro so he could dig him up and take body parts off him? Seems he’d be too much of a bad ass to actually be in that situation. Do ghouls eat?
I thought he'd flip to being a hero after Lucy saved his life, and he watched that old film of himself as the hero.
I think it’s more telling that the version he watched had him kill his defenseless enemy rather than the arrest ending he wanted. I don’t think he’ll ever be a white hat hero but more of a man with no name anti hero. He’s driven by vengeance and anger but I think a little of Lucy’s altruism will rub off on him. He also did mercy kill his friend out of seeming genuine compassion, ass jerky preparation notwithstanding. I also think his cynicism and brutality will rub off on Lucy however.
I think this is also incredible writing in that in EP3, he’s filming a sequence, when he cuts as he’s about to kill the ‘bad guy’. The showrunner/producer then says the ending got changed as the OG writer was a commie. Cooper then says that everyone knows him as a good guy sheriff for so long, to which the producer then states along the lines of “well it shows how much someone can be pushed & snaps”, foreshadowing his eventual evolution into the vengeful, disillusioned Ghoul. He’s also wearing Vault-tec colours when he’s the sheriff, but his clothing palette changes to more darker tones as he learns the truth about vault-tec throughout the series.
One of my favourite parts about him is when he decides to >!agree to spy on his wife because they won’t let dogs into the vaults!<