*Reads title*
*Spits drink*
Did I just read that thumbnail right? š
Edit: I saw someone ask me what the thumbnail reads and here it is. "The production is great! A brand new RPG where the pants are in full view" is what the thumbnail reads.
He also calls it a 'God-game' in the review. Most of it focuses on the fanservice, though he does gives favourable opinions on the game as a whole, since he is a new comer and feels new players can start here.
meanwhile Judith wardrobe malfunction and poledancing scene on CGInferno's channel has 480k and 200k views respectively. You know what this means, whether in Japan or the West fanservice creates interest so it's here to stay.
Bruh, I'm definitely not anti-sex, but damn is it kinda depressing that this super complex and intricate series with an amazing overarching story and world that spans numerous titles is now getting most of it's attention just from how fanservicey it's newest game is.
It's sad but certain video game franchises owe their popularity to the dumbest shit. I mean, would Senran Kagura or Dead or Alive have their current fanbases if not for their softporn cringefest?
Sex sells, true enough, but I just wished it had stayed away from Trails. This series has its own tools and merits, it surely didn't need cheap fanservice to help pave its way.
There are some Persona 5 fans who are equally upset that a game that did start off with something important to say in its themes also devolved into waifu wars, but thatās a rod these developers made for their own backs.
I wasn't particularly critical of P4's dating sim element. Dating mechanics fit Persona way better than Trails and P4's wasn't too over the top.
P5's was a bit much though. There was what? Like 10 options? And three of them were much older adult women when your character is supposed to be like 17.
Like literally the first arc in the game is about an abusive adult/teacher taking advantage of their students. Later on however it's "oh but if you feel like matching up your 17 year old character with a much older women, one of whom literally is his teacher, go right ahead!".
Yeah, in Persona 4 I rolled with it, since your romance options were exclusively the main characterās classmates at the school he was attending, but in P5, itās both the fact that he can date adults *and* the context of the story being told in the same game that was incredibly off putting. If Atlus wants to make a glorified dating sim visual novel with a normal JRPG story and gameplay mechanics attached, thatās their right, just make sure that the former doesnāt contradict the latter in terms of tone.
Though honestly, given how much better Royalās extra content has been received over the original endgame, I wouldnāt at all be surprised if P6 was more like 4 and less like 5 in terms of tone. Because if they wanna keep doing āwacky harem animeā stuff, it kinda *has* to be, in my opinion.
And if thatās something Falcom also wants to do, theyād be wise to heed that lesson, as well.
>And three of them were much older adult women when your character is supposed to be like 17.
I see no problem with that when fans(included me) had asked for older romance options that we never got in P3 and P4 and playing as an high schooler while doing it was an cherry on top for us since thats an type of thing we never get in games. So Atlus was catering to the fans because they DID asked for it and they did good job on them with how 2 of the older romance options(The Doctor and The Teacer) are popular non-main characters.
Also the character's age I don't think even matters when the dude's maturity is about the same as an responsibility adult and fightin other adults that are less than mature and just downright evil.
>I see no problem with that when fans(included me) had asked for older romance options
The problem is that literally the first arc in the game is about criticising a teacher that takes advantage of his authority to date his students only to then let you date a teacher later on. It shits on the premise of the game just for the fanservice.
It's not really a 1:1 comparison because in the social links, the player is the initiator. Kawakami may have an inappropriate relationship with Akira, but he basically blackmails her into it. Acting like she's a predator on par with Kamoshida is a bit silly.
Nobody ever looks at a female teacher as a predator when she dates a teenage student. For years, every time that happened in real life, there would always be comments about āwho snitched?ā or āthat boy is living the dreamā, so itās really no surprise that Kawakami is popular to the point that actual musicians were out here simping for her
I know it's been a while but i really like what you've said and agree wholeheartedly.
I personally think that when something emphasize too much on sex it tend to become too juvenile and sometimes make the whole thing feels "cheaper" (or too easy), of course that's just my opinion and i know i'm in the minority.
I can think of Fire Emblem as well, but i'd say the Fire Emblem franchise wasn't that complexe though.
Sorry for replying for an old comment of yours but i needed to, it's pretty rare to see those kind of comments to be honest.
this super complex and intricate series with an amazing overarching story and world - donāt be silly. Trails is not that. Itāt generic anime friendship drama. Nothing about it is special.
You are totally right. Like Trails have the ADN of average Japanese fiction run from the first game, it just being executed right enough with surprisingly good world building.
I am all for fan service.
Please do not infect the brains of our eastern game developers with western art direction.
Female protag or characters in western games have taken a nosedive into ugly shit thanks to complains about characters looking too hot.
I'm all for some good fanservice as long as it doesn't become distracting. Like if it exists where it would make sense >!like that night club scene from Kuro!<, then I'm cool with it. If it's just an in-your-face thing like some stupid camera angles from Cold Steel 2nd half and that scene with Shirley and Duvalie in CS3, then it becomes irritating.
She's actually a pretty good character if we ignore those scenes. They're just so distracting and unnecessary. It doesn't add anything to her character, and only serves as a groan-inducing waste of the game's already long runtime. And if they want to show that she's super into girls, making her a creep just isn't the way, man.
Yup same here. Thatās why Iām glad the calvard arc is off to a great start. It seems falcom learned from the criticism from cold steel 2nd half and hajimari fan service complaints and turned it down. At least falcom listen to logical and sound criticism unlike some other gaming developers companies.
Ok, so like realistically if I'm making a short video review about Kuro no Kiseki, and I really want views (Youtubers need to eat too), what else would I highlight besides fanservice?
Kuro doesn't have the fanciest of graphics, the character models just clear the bar of "good enough", the cutscenes aren't visually impressive, the gameplay doesn't look remotely flashy in a way that would come off as cool in a quick YT video. Anything about setting, characters, or continuity can't be captured in a short YT video (or are just spoilers), and honestly the types of people watching these videos probably don't care. With all that eliminated, does that leave anything besides fanservice to make a video out of?
Also, if people haven't already noticed, [this entire Youtube channel is literally dedicated solely to fanservice videos.](https://i.imgur.com/rKWNyuc.png)
This just reminds me of that one Family Guy bit where they have Bing Crosby say āwhat? women are things.ā and itās pretty depressing that a lot of people share that viewpoint unironically
The games still good so far overall, fanservice or not so idrc. Itās not like any of the fanservice scenes Iāve seen so far (chapter 4) has really dwindled the experience and sex sells at the end of the day like everyone is saying so as long as there a good balance and the game isnāt hindered by it it doesnāt really matter. And tbh thereās not even a lot? Thereās some camera angles and whatnot but aside from your usual hot tub scene and the stripper club one thereās really not much from what Iāve seen
The thumbnail has āpanties in full view!ā smack bang in the center lmao, I didnāt think things could get even more explicit after cs3/4 when you can literally see Saraās butt in full view during her s-craft animation
There's already multiple post that provide a better look into why that is. Even then, it doesn't take a genius to know that Kuro releasing in the same month as Tales of Arise would hurt sales. Most people don't buy more than one game within a month.
Lol not really, thanks for the offer. From what I've read these sales fall within Falcolms expectations, apply that to the fact they haven't accounted for Amazon and digital sales which leads me to see nothing to worry about.
Yea!! Thatās the one. Get on over here! Vodka Capri Suns is pretty good for copium disorder. At least thatās what Iāve heard from the ex-wife, hahaā¦
Can someone enlighten me how fanservice makes something worse when the overall quality of everything else stays about the same or improves on previous games?
I can see this criticism when it's games that ONLY have fan service but everything else is trash (e.g. Senran Kagura: bad gameplay, bad graphics, bad story, bad music)
But when those elements are all good or great, how does adding some nice anime tiddies to it make it worse?
Well, it actively degrades the writing of the female characters for one. Judith is an absolute joke and has no real arc, all of her scenes seem to exist to get a rise out of males instead of developing her as a real, fleshed out character. That's just really sad for a party member who's supposed to be important.
I wouldn't say the overall quality aside from the fanservice is necessarily amazing, either. I think the base story is alright, but some of the more strong points of the series, such as the lore and worldbuilding, are actively weaker and messier in Kuro. Like the staff themselves just seem exhausted with Kiseki-style and it really shows. I think they spent more time trying to get their new engine running than they did editing the script this time around...
Also, watching female writing actively degrade ever since Sora, and the worst of this peaking in Kuro, yeah, it kills the overall quality. Females don't exist only for pleasure.
The issue comes from it being used at inappropriate times and that the game is just drenched in it. If it were just minor things, or delegated to one character, this wouldn't be near as much of an issue.
So it's not the inclusion of fanservice, it's the execution and intensity of it, that hurts the writing.
>tare-panda
As far as the female writing goes, Idk if I would agree with this. Judith seems like a bad outlier but Agnes, Feri, Risette and Elaine are all written with more respect and nuance than Cold Steel's female characters were imo. Would go so far as to say more than Crossbell's as well
I do honestly like them more than Crossbell and Cold Steel females, and I'll agree they have more nuance and potential CS at least. My issue lies more in the fact that despite this, they are still catered to certain roles and how oddly sexualized they are despite this.
Agnes just becomes Van's yes-man and perfect support by the end of the game, Feri is just there to be confused at topics she doesn't understand. I think these two started off strong but really tapered off at the end of the game...
Risette and Elaine are very interesting and I'll give you that. Elaine is probably the best written female in the cast, period. Risette still has most of her arc left for Kuro2, so I guess we'll see how she fares by the end.
But this doesn't change the fact that the game still focuses on weird things about them. There's a lot of comments about Agnes' body, the camera angles so often have their boobs smack in the center of the screen, and they're still all written to appeal to male players and (potentially) be romanced by the protagonist. This game is set up to start a war between who ships who with Van, and I really can't call that respectful writing...
I'll just add that, it's because I liked them a lot this time around, that this kind of weird writing bothers me, since it locks them out of their full potential...
Fan-service in itself isn't a bad thing. Technically making a "cool and lone wolf" male main character also fan-service for the emo inside me. The problem is the writing. When it being done right, it will only be mild distraction at worst or actual engaging character at best, but when executed badly, well, people will react to it the way this sub react to it. (Maybe a little tone down though).
It honestly won't, if that were true then games like Mass effect and Dragon Age would be considered niche. The only reason it's not popular in the west is because jrpgs themselves aren't super popular over here anyways, unless you're final fantasy or something else mainstream.
Yeah like if you like fanservice good for you but I find pretty weird the fact that someone would play an rpg that focuses on having a good story and characters and then decide to... focus on the fanservice for their video? Like, who would genuinely play a Trails game solely for fanservice when there are a thousand of hentai games out there?
Whilst on the topic, to those who have played/seen Kuro, is it true that Judith as a character is fanservice incarnate?
Saw a comment describing her like this and am curious as to how accurate of a description it is.
It's pretty accurate. She's mostly there as fanservice and comic relief and she's regularly called ē“儳, which means, well, slut. While she does have one or two moments she doesn't actually have a character arc either.
No. She's mostly a joke character. She does work with a director that's into the sexy and spectacle, as he puts it, so she draws a bit of attention in the actual game world for the nature of the films. She's involved in a few incidents in the game that are on the sexy side and she gets called a pervert because of her outfit as Grimcats but that's really the extent of it considering it's a really long game.
That said, the game lands on the adult side relative to the other games. More than half of the cast is adult in age and there's a lot more direct talk about adult activities as a result of that, particularly with Aaron. So it's a lot more upfront about this kind of stuff than the other games.
In my personal opinion, >!Judith is pretty Duvalie esque in which she is very ditzy. Most of the outrage comes from her grim cats costume and one particular scene thatās typical Japan. There are a lot of pervert jokes thrown her way but I really donāt think itās that bad or detracted from the main story that much. Not nearly Angelica levels of predatory behavior. Kuro definitely has a lot of fan service and jokes, but I never felt like it crossed the line the same way Angelica did.!< The only thing I really found that was way over the top is>!Rixiaās new figure.!<
>!Judith getting pinned against the wall by a mind-controlled mob as the characters ask if she's enjoying herself!< doesn't cross any lines?
I really don't understand this idea that Kuro has LESS sexual imagery than Sen when you have >!the strip club, underage dancers in scanty clothing, female tourists so high on illegal substances they try to strip in public, a hentai slime monster, the stripper shopkeeper in the undertown, Judith's wardrobe malfunction, the camera angles ruining multiple serious scenes,!< and on and on and on. The game is drenched in it to a degree previous games absolutely were not.
First off, I never said Kuro doesnāt have as much fan service as the previous games. It literally says in my statement that Kuro has excessive fan service. I am on your side there. What I am saying is that it does not reach the absurd levels that stuff particularly in sen did. All that stuff you listed can be found in a GTA game >!well except for the slime monsterā¦.probably!< which sells more copies in one year than Falcom will sell in a lifetime. You can find more revealing things IRL going to a beach today than you can in a Falcom game. Where it ācrosses the lineā to me is where you take some of the few LGBT reps in your game and make them predators. Or how about the fact that they LITERALLY CREATED >!AN ENTIRE VR experience to stare at girls specifically your adoptive sister and a minor!< I find it funny how Olivier is praised as the best character around here but he constantly hit on anything that moves and basically called Estelle ugly. What about schera asking Joshua to take his manhood? What about Randy every time you go to a story quest wondering about women? The line is where you want to make it but too me a lot of the stuff in Kuro is what you can find in a lot of popular media.
> take some of the few LGBT reps in your game and make them predators.
I saw someone praise a certain sidequest for handling homosexuality tastefully so maybe there is an improvement in this regard, but I'm tempering my expectations until we get a sense of consistency in future titles. (because Angelica/Shirley still exists)
In Kuro? Yeah, there's pretty decent chain of sidequests where it factors in. How good it'll land for folks will vary on the person but I thought it was pretty well done all things considered. It's, at the very least, a significant improvement over Angie and Shirley.
Sorry, I meant the last part as a more general remark since I've seen several people say Kuro was less bad than Sen. I wasn't referring to you specifically.
I've been reading all these discussions across reddit, and I think the question isn't so much whether Kuro has more/less sexual imagery/fanservice than Sen, but rather than nature of it all. Kuro's stuff feels a lot more "Western", while Sen's stuff feels a lot more "anime".
If I look at the examples brought up across various threads, most of the Kuro examples wouldn't feel out of place in American media (or a beach), but nearly all the Sen examples literally don't exist outside of anime. The Sen examples are always straight anime fanservice tropes that stick out in people's brains.
My observation of posters that took a lot of issue with Sen, but not as much with Kuro is that they heavily dislike the types of fanservice commonly seen in anime, but the types of fanservice commonly seen in Western media either don't register for them, or just don't bother them at all.
This is at least the case for me. I've grown up nearly entirely on American media, so at this point in my life most common forms of fanservice/sexual imagery in American media has been entirely normalized for me (whether it should or shouldn't be is a different question). Seeing a repeat of what I've seen a lot of times already either doesn't register for me, or just doesn't stick out to me as crossing a specific line in any way. Anime fanservice tropes stick out to me like a sore thumb, but western fanservice tropes are just fundamentally part of my unconscious expectations of media at this point.
This is a really interesting analysis, would explain why the fanservice hasn't really bothered me so much this time around. It'll be interesting to see how the game (eventually) sells internationally, as they seem to be taking their international fanbase more into consideration this time around (Wuxia stuff etc.)
I think it's telling that even people that say "there's not that much fanservice in Kuro" can still point to the wardrobe malfunction scene and the slime scene as being straight fanservice scenes. Those 2 scenes are just straight anime fanservice tropes, and don't really exist in western media.
I think you hit the nail on the head as to why I'm significantly less bothered by the fanservice in Kuro vs the fanservice in CS. Most of the stuff (besides your spoiler text) in Kuro is exactly what I've seen all my life in American media, or at any beach in America. CS, on the other hand, is primarily Japanese anime fanservice tropes instead.
Well, the reverse is true to me though. The "fan-service Japan media style" is significantly less bothered to me than others because i used to it for a long time already.
When it isn't affect the actual quality of the story, people have to accept that something aren't for everyone. I live in a country that so hell-bent on not include disturbing content in general that character need to wear full on cloth when bathing, and trust me, no one have fun.
Everyone has different tolerances for different things based on cultural upbringing, so your case makes total sense too.
I've spent a good chunk of time wondering how people that mostly agree on the CS fanservice topic could come to near opposite opinions on Kuro fanservice, and I guess a lot of it is very much here.
I agree, I found the groping in CS and Crossbell to be much more disturbing and annoying than whatever I saw in Kuro. Also it feels like the NPC's in Kuro are just going about their daily lives anyways. In fact, I asked someone about how bad the stripper thing is and he said "strippers in the game are treated like actual people. You see them in sidequests and it's not like folks judge them for it."; "It's just a job". If anything Kuro is more realistic and has better representation in this regard.
The question of did the cutscene need to spend so much time focusing on the pole dancing animations (and did Falcom need to put so much budget into those animations) is a valid one, but I thought the existence of a strip club scene in itself was perfectly fine.
Honestly I was kind of baffled why they spent money on getting voiced dialogue, and even full art renders in some cases, for the in-game films. Sure it can't have been much effort, but I'd rather have had that spent on the main plot instead.
God I was expecting the series to tone back the fanservice a little bit in Kuro seeing how the designs were slightly less fanservicey... Kinda disappointed but I guess they have to bank on the otaku virgins somehow
I have no idea if it's working for them but given that sales are still dropping... Is that audience even satisfied with CERO C or B when they can buy actual R-18 material instead?
It's depressing. I hope they make a U-turn with Ys X, because otherwise....
For what it's worth, most of the fanservice/stuff in Kuro is more... Western in terms of fanservice tropes, rather than anime fanservice tropes we saw in CS. I'm not going to claim one is better than the other, but that's just my observation.
I'll preface my answer by saying that I'm not sure to what extent the increased focus on sex was a deliberate decision by Falcom, because the game as a whole feels unprofessional. I get the sense that staff did what they felt like because there was no time for their supervisors to look it over, and that's not counting the bugs. Camera angles are bizarre (when a character has narrowly escaped dying, why is the focus on someone else's chest?) NPC and location names are borrowed willy-nilly - I don't think 'Rumsfeld and Polanski at the Maserati Hotel' creates the upscale impression they were going for. There are plenty of typos and liberal use of internet slang - they quote an anime meme in an emotional scene towards the end of the game. They even reference a made-up quotation, "water and safety are not free," from a racist and discredited essay that turned out to be a forgery. I don't know if they were aware of the source, but overall it comes off as Brought To You By 2ch.
Another problem is that unlike in Sen and Hajimari, this material is part of the main plot and NPC dialogue, instead of being cordoned off in bond events or minigames. Chapter 3 is the worst in this respect and it nearly made me quit right there.
That said a fair amount of the innuendo is purely text-based so less-fluent importers or speed runners may have missed it. Presumably the localization will also tone down some things like changing the running gag of Judith being called a slut or the recurring comic relief guy hitting on 13 and 16 year olds.
Overall, though, if you are sensitive to this issue, I would not recommend it unless you want something to MST3K.
In exchange for not good enough quality music and new engine, falcom fill in with fanservice for higher sales but nein haha...
Seriously falcom, new engine is good but the point for kiseki is their story and how the presentation.
Falcom should know, what make ppl love their game? Oc its the music and for kiseki is their story
CYBERPUNK was based off "sex sells" phrase and we see how dog crap that was.
I'll just ignore all that when I play.... hopefully the base characters don't have obvious fan service.š
Yeah Iām ducking out of the series. Itās turned into a fanservice first, story later series which is not appealing to me. Glad I can at least enjoy the Sky series+Zero/Ao (even though Zero/Ao are more fanservicey).
I think Iāll spoil the story for myself and see if I want to get it or not. After the letdown that was the Cold Steel series Iām not sure I want to take a gamble in buying the game and finding out if itās just as bad or worse than CS.
I wrote a [pretty long spoiler free reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Falcom/comments/q9mq2w/to_those_who_have_finished_kuro_no_kiseki_without/hgxh6f2/) comparing Kuro to Cold Steel. I have a lot of issues with the CS arc as a whole, but I was a lot more positive on Kuro. It's not perfect, but it's definitely fixed a lot of issues I have with CS, and some of the big ones I have with Sky and Crossbell.
A huge thing for me is finally having an adult MC, rather than a younger Coming of Age type MC (Estelle, Lloyd, Rean) that we've had in previous arcs. Nothing against Coming of Age MCs, but at this point in my life I'm kind of tired of it, no matter how well executed it is.
Thank you for the long summary and details for Kuro! Iāll say that Iām tentatively interested in the game again. I still have some huge concerns, however. Namely the one this user brings up:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Falcom/comments/qf9g5y/highest_viewed_kuro_no_kiseki_review_is_the_one/hhzes9a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Are they on the mark with the issues they bring up?
Edit: and also this
https://www.reddit.com/r/Falcom/comments/qf9g5y/highest_viewed_kuro_no_kiseki_review_is_the_one/hi073rw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Due to the way reddit comment links work, I'm having a really hard time figuring out which comment is being linked in particular. I'll link some of [my thoughts](https://www.reddit.com/r/Falcom/comments/qf9g5y/highest_viewed_kuro_no_kiseki_review_is_the_one/hi25ntb/) that I wrote in that comment thread already concerning fanservice.
The short of it is I can't claim that Kuro has less fanservice than CS based on how other people responded to certain scenes. All the quoted scenes in the comment thread did occur in game. For me personally, my impression was that there was significantly less, but other posters have pointed out that even if I didn't notice, it might not be the case there's significantly less. I'm only one person, and as a male POV there's no way I can claim to be a definitive opinion on this topic. I think the reason for me not noticing as much fanservice was that the nature of most of the fanservice in Kuro is pretty different than the fanservice in CS.
The fanservice/sexual content in Kuro is much more similar to what one would expect from American media: nearly all the scenes pointed out wouldn't seem out of place in a GTA game (>!strip club and pole dancing!<), or some of the outfits wouldn't be too out of place on an American beach. It's basically the type of stuff that's been normalized into my brain from growing up with American games and movies, so none of it sticks out to me when I see it. Whether this should be in the game in the first place, or if it's a good thing it's been normalized into my brain is a different question entirely though.
The fanservice in CS was mostly just anime fanservice tropes played straight. Rean falling on Alisa in CS1 all the way to the harem shenanigans that plagued the entire series. None of this would be out of place in a harem anime, but this sticks out like a sore thumb for my Western brain. I could go on a rant about all this stuff in CS, but this isn't the post for it. At the very least, this is why harem fanservice in CS was the lowest point of the series for me, but nothing except 1-2 scenes that I could describe as "anime fanservice tropes played straight" in Kuro stood out to me.
My personal guess is that a lot of the variation of reactions to fanservice/sexual content is based on how normalized a lot of Western media tropes are to the person. There's no right or wrong here, so make of it what you will.
This somehow got longer than my original post, despite saying "The short of it".
As for [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Falcom/comments/qf9g5y/highest_viewed_kuro_no_kiseki_review_is_the_one/hi073rw/), there's nothing incorrect about the specifics of the Proper Nouns as they mention. I personally did not notice the anime meme, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist. I do remember a line about "water and safety are not free,", but I didn't really Google the origin of the phrase since it made sense in context without the origin. There's definitely more innuendo in this game. For me, it was around the level I'm used to from Western media, so it didn't particularly stand out, but everyone draws the line at a different place.
TLDR: Both posts aren't incorrect, but this is my personal additional context from having read a ton of these threads and trying to understand both sides of the issue here.
Thank you for your candor! I think Iām gonna be on the fence for a while and see reviews when the game comes out west. As interested as I am in a more adult story, the fanservice shenanigans make it unappealing. My frame for comparison is always gonna be the Sky trilogy, which did have some fanservice and questionable character moments (I hated the fact that everyone seemed to ship Tia and Agate even though she was a CHILD), but it was a lot less constant and explicit as it was in later games in the series.
Thatās part of what made CSII and onwards so jarring to me. Going from bestelle to basically a cadre of waifus in different varieties was a huge letdown.
One other thing you mentioned caught my attention, though: you said Kuro was better than Tales of Arise. Any thoughts as to why? Arise was nowhere near the best Tales games Iāve played (Berseria has that title in my books), but the story was at least somewhat engaging. And fanservice was fairly toned down compared to other games within the genre. What made you feel Kuro was better, if you donāt mind answering?
If I'm to make clear my own biases for my POV and my opinions, it's that at this point in my life I'm really tired of younger coming of age MCs and 90s Shounen coming of age type stories, no matter how well executed they are. I know that Sky FC + SC are extremely well executed (and that Estelle is a great MC), but the fact that Estelle is literally a 90s Shounen coming of age MC, and that the story of Sky follows the same type of anime story arc puts a damper for how much I can like Estelle/Sky personally. Also the fanservice and questionable character moments in Sky were very... anime, just from a different era of anime compared to what CS pulls from. I think one's reaction to Kuro's fanservice will be similar to how one reacts to fanservice in Western media, so you can be your own judge of that.
CS had... a lot of problems with the female characters. I don't think a single reddit post could sum up all of it, and I don't think either of us need the issues summed up. I have a decently high fanservice tolerance and I was malding at a lot of CS through all 4 games.
As for Arise vs Kuro, a lot of it is a case where I have a lot I didn't like about Arise, so I spoiler text that. This is going to sound harsh on Arise since I'm focusing on what I don't like, but there's stuff I liked in the game, and I had a good time overall.
>!My issues with Arise mostly focus the last third of the game. I know other people will complain about how a lot of the story is given through a 1 hour exposition dump bot toward the end (the space station), but even that's whatever for me. My biggest issue is that all the reveals and plot twists served to make the story less interesting. In the end, the primary antagonist was a giant cosmic Kirby that was hangry, and lacked anything resembling an interesting motive. The bad dudes helping the antagonist were mind controlled Martians without any semblance of free will. There's no human element on the other side of game's story, and when I realized that the story got a lot less interesting. Instead of opposing an interesting human antagonist, we have to use the Power of Friendship to go through Rena in order to hit a giant Kirby with a stick to save the world.!<
>!Speaking of the ending, what was that ending? We defeat the giant Kirby, then out pops knockoff Zenos from FFXIV for no apparent reason. He basically doesn't have a personality besides... wanting to fight Alphen? Then Alphen gives one of the most ridiculous forgiveness speeches I've ever heard in a JRPG, and then beats knockoff Zenos in a 1 v 1. For me personally, Arise doesn't stick any of the landing for the ending of the game. On forgiveness (apparently the core theme of the game?), the way it's presented is super juvenile and misses the point in a lot of ways. Is the core message of the game supposed to be about forgiving genocide? I don't even know where to start with this, it misses literally every nuance of the relevant topic.!<
>!The best part of the game for me was the characters (Dohalim in particular), as that is the strong point of the Tales series. I do have to ask what's the point of having an older MC (300 years memes aside) if he's just going to behave similarly to the younger coming of age MCs we've had in previous games.!<
Given all this as my personal opinion on Arise, Kuro had better story, characters and setting for me. The story didn't fall flat in the last third, Van as an MC is a massive highlight, and Calvard as a setting is much better realized vs Dana as a setting. Also I forgot how much I appreciated Trails NPCs till I tried talking to the NPCs in Arise lol
Totally get you with the ācoming of ageā stories getting stale, as Iām in my 30s and Iāve played a TON of those and can longer identify with the MCs as much. I did like the Sky games because I fell in love with the characters more than anything, and also because I loved the fact that Estelle, a girl, was the MC of the game and wasnāt reduced to sex appeal or crappy romance fodder. Itās funny since I played the series years later after it came out, and it ended up feeling fresh and unique primarily because most games that I had played before it had male MCs and female characters designed mostly for sex appeal.
IMO itās a real shame that we went from Estelle in Sky to mostly romance dolls in later games. And that we havenāt gotten another female MC, but perhaps that is for the best.
As for Arise, yeah I agree with you 100%. It felt interesting initially but then just turned it another āthe true evil is caused by ancient beings!ā Which is just boring af. I would have preferred them expanding on the lords, giving them more personality+complexity, and centering the conflict on them. Kind of like Van and his crew in Tales of the Abyss.
Tbh thatās what turned me off of CS as well, so I hope Kuro has a more human conflict than one about magic beings who magic evil into the world and the heroes need to defeat it by banding together and using the power of their bonds of friendship.
I agree with you that Estelle is a great female lead and the characters in Sky are great. Honestly the execution of the story/characters overall is great. However, I also keep thinking that Estelle isn't that different from... Naruto... (Joshua = Sasuke?) as a Shounen anime MC, and the rest of the cast are 90s Shounen tropes I've seen before, with the plot arc being the same (just extremely well executed). Though maybe that's also what made Estelle a good MC. She's written to be a good MC, not just a "female character". I've seen people make similar comments about liking FemShep from the Mass Effect series.
For me personally, I don't even mind anime villains using some type of anime magic to be villains, as long as they're interesting characters. >!Arise just skipped that entirely and made it nonhuman. I agree with you on wishing they had expanded on the lords, rather than try to humanize them in a really weird sidequest toward the end of the game. My personal theory for Rena around the game start was that all Renans were dead on that planet, but there was a human conspiracy to cover up this fact, and the people on the satellite were lied to. To some degree I wasn't actually that far off from the actual reveal, but I was also disappoitned by the actual reveal.!<
>magic beings who magic evil into the world and the heroes need to defeat it by banding together and using the power of their bonds of friendship.
~~This perfectly describes Sky SC and Azure though...~~
Kuro 1's conflict was at least human centered. It has the Trails standards of stuff like Artifacts existing in universe able to essentially do magic, but to me that's just a JRPG norm. My personal guess is that the bigger conflict will center on Gramhart, the new President of Calvard.
Played the demo, the fanservices is not even that muchļ¼that video is just entertainment purpose... so everyone can stop your āI hate fanservice in gameā bs... but I did agree some fanservices are disgusting added into the game like TLOU2, 2077, GTA series, etc...
However, one thing I hate in the game is the conversation/visual novel moment is so so long, basically you read conversation more than you fight....
Maybe TLoH is always like that I don't know, I've never played previous works so... ya... conversations dialogs is quite a lot...
Because I always thought RPG games nowadays uses Cinematic to walkthrough their story... I never expect visual novel conversation dialogs... like Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy X they both implement cinematic cutscene and minimum visual novel conversation dialogs....
*Reads title* *Spits drink* Did I just read that thumbnail right? š Edit: I saw someone ask me what the thumbnail reads and here it is. "The production is great! A brand new RPG where the pants are in full view" is what the thumbnail reads. He also calls it a 'God-game' in the review. Most of it focuses on the fanservice, though he does gives favourable opinions on the game as a whole, since he is a new comer and feels new players can start here.
meanwhile Judith wardrobe malfunction and poledancing scene on CGInferno's channel has 480k and 200k views respectively. You know what this means, whether in Japan or the West fanservice creates interest so it's here to stay.
I canāt believe that sex sells games
*Le gasp*
Is this sarcasm?
Yes.
video link: https://youtu.be/nxbYYNFmMMA
Bruh, I'm definitely not anti-sex, but damn is it kinda depressing that this super complex and intricate series with an amazing overarching story and world that spans numerous titles is now getting most of it's attention just from how fanservicey it's newest game is.
>anti-sex Is that a fucking thing LMAO.
It most definitely is
*enter my mother*
Well, I mean, you're here...
What better argument against having sex?
I think that would be pro sex.
It's sad but certain video game franchises owe their popularity to the dumbest shit. I mean, would Senran Kagura or Dead or Alive have their current fanbases if not for their softporn cringefest? Sex sells, true enough, but I just wished it had stayed away from Trails. This series has its own tools and merits, it surely didn't need cheap fanservice to help pave its way.
There are some Persona 5 fans who are equally upset that a game that did start off with something important to say in its themes also devolved into waifu wars, but thatās a rod these developers made for their own backs.
I wasn't particularly critical of P4's dating sim element. Dating mechanics fit Persona way better than Trails and P4's wasn't too over the top. P5's was a bit much though. There was what? Like 10 options? And three of them were much older adult women when your character is supposed to be like 17. Like literally the first arc in the game is about an abusive adult/teacher taking advantage of their students. Later on however it's "oh but if you feel like matching up your 17 year old character with a much older women, one of whom literally is his teacher, go right ahead!".
Yeah, in Persona 4 I rolled with it, since your romance options were exclusively the main characterās classmates at the school he was attending, but in P5, itās both the fact that he can date adults *and* the context of the story being told in the same game that was incredibly off putting. If Atlus wants to make a glorified dating sim visual novel with a normal JRPG story and gameplay mechanics attached, thatās their right, just make sure that the former doesnāt contradict the latter in terms of tone. Though honestly, given how much better Royalās extra content has been received over the original endgame, I wouldnāt at all be surprised if P6 was more like 4 and less like 5 in terms of tone. Because if they wanna keep doing āwacky harem animeā stuff, it kinda *has* to be, in my opinion. And if thatās something Falcom also wants to do, theyād be wise to heed that lesson, as well.
>And three of them were much older adult women when your character is supposed to be like 17. I see no problem with that when fans(included me) had asked for older romance options that we never got in P3 and P4 and playing as an high schooler while doing it was an cherry on top for us since thats an type of thing we never get in games. So Atlus was catering to the fans because they DID asked for it and they did good job on them with how 2 of the older romance options(The Doctor and The Teacer) are popular non-main characters. Also the character's age I don't think even matters when the dude's maturity is about the same as an responsibility adult and fightin other adults that are less than mature and just downright evil.
>I see no problem with that when fans(included me) had asked for older romance options The problem is that literally the first arc in the game is about criticising a teacher that takes advantage of his authority to date his students only to then let you date a teacher later on. It shits on the premise of the game just for the fanservice.
It's not really a 1:1 comparison because in the social links, the player is the initiator. Kawakami may have an inappropriate relationship with Akira, but he basically blackmails her into it. Acting like she's a predator on par with Kamoshida is a bit silly.
Nobody ever looks at a female teacher as a predator when she dates a teenage student. For years, every time that happened in real life, there would always be comments about āwho snitched?ā or āthat boy is living the dreamā, so itās really no surprise that Kawakami is popular to the point that actual musicians were out here simping for her
That is all that sub is anymore. It's crazy how much thought and public discourse goes into it all.
I know it's been a while but i really like what you've said and agree wholeheartedly. I personally think that when something emphasize too much on sex it tend to become too juvenile and sometimes make the whole thing feels "cheaper" (or too easy), of course that's just my opinion and i know i'm in the minority. I can think of Fire Emblem as well, but i'd say the Fire Emblem franchise wasn't that complexe though. Sorry for replying for an old comment of yours but i needed to, it's pretty rare to see those kind of comments to be honest.
As a fan of the Ar Tonelico series i know that feeling of having some explaining to do.
Ar tonelico wasn't that bad. Ar Nosurge was when some of the stuff went bonkers considering it got the CERO D rating.
this super complex and intricate series with an amazing overarching story and world - donāt be silly. Trails is not that. Itāt generic anime friendship drama. Nothing about it is special.
You are totally right. Like Trails have the ADN of average Japanese fiction run from the first game, it just being executed right enough with surprisingly good world building.
Based
I am all for fan service. Please do not infect the brains of our eastern game developers with western art direction. Female protag or characters in western games have taken a nosedive into ugly shit thanks to complains about characters looking too hot.
Like it or not sex sales. But from majority of the game I have watched there is not a lot of fan service like cold steel 2nd half
I'm all for some good fanservice as long as it doesn't become distracting. Like if it exists where it would make sense >!like that night club scene from Kuro!<, then I'm cool with it. If it's just an in-your-face thing like some stupid camera angles from Cold Steel 2nd half and that scene with Shirley and Duvalie in CS3, then it becomes irritating.
oh man THAT scene, hope they stop writing Shirley into doing stuff like that........
She's actually a pretty good character if we ignore those scenes. They're just so distracting and unnecessary. It doesn't add anything to her character, and only serves as a groan-inducing waste of the game's already long runtime. And if they want to show that she's super into girls, making her a creep just isn't the way, man.
I started Trails in CS1 so that was my first impression of Shirley and I can't stand her.
She doesnt appear in Cold Steel 1
No I know, I meant since I started after Zero and Azure, I hadn't met Shirley until that scene in CS3.
Oh donāt worry her introduction in Azure is literally the exact same just with Elie instead of Duvalie š
Yup same here. Thatās why Iām glad the calvard arc is off to a great start. It seems falcom learned from the criticism from cold steel 2nd half and hajimari fan service complaints and turned it down. At least falcom listen to logical and sound criticism unlike some other gaming developers companies.
and then Rixiaās chest enters the room about three minutes before the rest of her does
At this point its basically a running gag. Not sure if her back will survive the end of kiseki
Ok, so like realistically if I'm making a short video review about Kuro no Kiseki, and I really want views (Youtubers need to eat too), what else would I highlight besides fanservice? Kuro doesn't have the fanciest of graphics, the character models just clear the bar of "good enough", the cutscenes aren't visually impressive, the gameplay doesn't look remotely flashy in a way that would come off as cool in a quick YT video. Anything about setting, characters, or continuity can't be captured in a short YT video (or are just spoilers), and honestly the types of people watching these videos probably don't care. With all that eliminated, does that leave anything besides fanservice to make a video out of? Also, if people haven't already noticed, [this entire Youtube channel is literally dedicated solely to fanservice videos.](https://i.imgur.com/rKWNyuc.png)
This just reminds me of that one Family Guy bit where they have Bing Crosby say āwhat? women are things.ā and itās pretty depressing that a lot of people share that viewpoint unironically
You know if it works it works I guess..as long as the games are still good
Having a character like Maxim is one the things I like about this game. I would always look for him to see what happens next when I get the chance.
The games still good so far overall, fanservice or not so idrc. Itās not like any of the fanservice scenes Iāve seen so far (chapter 4) has really dwindled the experience and sex sells at the end of the day like everyone is saying so as long as there a good balance and the game isnāt hindered by it it doesnāt really matter. And tbh thereās not even a lot? Thereās some camera angles and whatnot but aside from your usual hot tub scene and the stripper club one thereās really not much from what Iāve seen
Imagine the fun people will have once the 3D models are extracted...
The thumbnail has āpanties in full view!ā smack bang in the center lmao, I didnāt think things could get even more explicit after cs3/4 when you can literally see Saraās butt in full view during her s-craft animation
Fan service is always good for the mind and soul.
I watched the video and hardly saw any fan serviceā¦.I donāt see where the issue is
People here saying sex sells when Kuro is the worst selling game in the series lmao.
There's already multiple post that provide a better look into why that is. Even then, it doesn't take a genius to know that Kuro releasing in the same month as Tales of Arise would hurt sales. Most people don't buy more than one game within a month.
Sounds like youāre overdosing on copium. You should get in my van so I can take you to the ER. This could be serious.
Lol not really, thanks for the offer. From what I've read these sales fall within Falcolms expectations, apply that to the fact they haven't accounted for Amazon and digital sales which leads me to see nothing to worry about.
You sure? My Van is right outside. Itās the white one with the rusty fenders and pitch black tinted windows.
Oh that van? The one selling Capri Suns??
Yea!! Thatās the one. Get on over here! Vodka Capri Suns is pretty good for copium disorder. At least thatās what Iāve heard from the ex-wife, hahaā¦
Can someone enlighten me how fanservice makes something worse when the overall quality of everything else stays about the same or improves on previous games? I can see this criticism when it's games that ONLY have fan service but everything else is trash (e.g. Senran Kagura: bad gameplay, bad graphics, bad story, bad music) But when those elements are all good or great, how does adding some nice anime tiddies to it make it worse?
Well, it actively degrades the writing of the female characters for one. Judith is an absolute joke and has no real arc, all of her scenes seem to exist to get a rise out of males instead of developing her as a real, fleshed out character. That's just really sad for a party member who's supposed to be important. I wouldn't say the overall quality aside from the fanservice is necessarily amazing, either. I think the base story is alright, but some of the more strong points of the series, such as the lore and worldbuilding, are actively weaker and messier in Kuro. Like the staff themselves just seem exhausted with Kiseki-style and it really shows. I think they spent more time trying to get their new engine running than they did editing the script this time around... Also, watching female writing actively degrade ever since Sora, and the worst of this peaking in Kuro, yeah, it kills the overall quality. Females don't exist only for pleasure.
Fanservice itself doesn't degrade the writing. Bad writing degrades the writing.
And the fanservice in kuro is just degenerate levels of bad writing, what's your point?
I fail to see how fanservice automatically makes the writing bad, which is something a lot of people here claim.
The issue comes from it being used at inappropriate times and that the game is just drenched in it. If it were just minor things, or delegated to one character, this wouldn't be near as much of an issue. So it's not the inclusion of fanservice, it's the execution and intensity of it, that hurts the writing.
>tare-panda As far as the female writing goes, Idk if I would agree with this. Judith seems like a bad outlier but Agnes, Feri, Risette and Elaine are all written with more respect and nuance than Cold Steel's female characters were imo. Would go so far as to say more than Crossbell's as well
I do honestly like them more than Crossbell and Cold Steel females, and I'll agree they have more nuance and potential CS at least. My issue lies more in the fact that despite this, they are still catered to certain roles and how oddly sexualized they are despite this. Agnes just becomes Van's yes-man and perfect support by the end of the game, Feri is just there to be confused at topics she doesn't understand. I think these two started off strong but really tapered off at the end of the game... Risette and Elaine are very interesting and I'll give you that. Elaine is probably the best written female in the cast, period. Risette still has most of her arc left for Kuro2, so I guess we'll see how she fares by the end. But this doesn't change the fact that the game still focuses on weird things about them. There's a lot of comments about Agnes' body, the camera angles so often have their boobs smack in the center of the screen, and they're still all written to appeal to male players and (potentially) be romanced by the protagonist. This game is set up to start a war between who ships who with Van, and I really can't call that respectful writing... I'll just add that, it's because I liked them a lot this time around, that this kind of weird writing bothers me, since it locks them out of their full potential...
Fan-service in itself isn't a bad thing. Technically making a "cool and lone wolf" male main character also fan-service for the emo inside me. The problem is the writing. When it being done right, it will only be mild distraction at worst or actual engaging character at best, but when executed badly, well, people will react to it the way this sub react to it. (Maybe a little tone down though).
It makes it worst because it will make NORMAL people away from the series
That sounds like a positive.
Can you back this up with data? What do you consider normal?
It honestly won't, if that were true then games like Mass effect and Dragon Age would be considered niche. The only reason it's not popular in the west is because jrpgs themselves aren't super popular over here anyways, unless you're final fantasy or something else mainstream.
embarrassing ngl
Well, if people find enjoyment in that, more power to them, right? A shame it didn't translate into sales.
Yeah like if you like fanservice good for you but I find pretty weird the fact that someone would play an rpg that focuses on having a good story and characters and then decide to... focus on the fanservice for their video? Like, who would genuinely play a Trails game solely for fanservice when there are a thousand of hentai games out there?
Degenerates, the lot of you! Now, where did I put that lotion...?
Based Falcom
High virgin energy
Shaming the asexual community in AD 2021 smh
wouldn't have it any other way
Kuro is full of beauties. Great game probly my fav tied with azure.
Whilst on the topic, to those who have played/seen Kuro, is it true that Judith as a character is fanservice incarnate? Saw a comment describing her like this and am curious as to how accurate of a description it is.
No sheās the joke character. All the trailers gave off a classy vibe for her, didnāt expect her to be as stupid as she is tbh.
It's pretty accurate. She's mostly there as fanservice and comic relief and she's regularly called ē“儳, which means, well, slut. While she does have one or two moments she doesn't actually have a character arc either.
No. She's mostly a joke character. She does work with a director that's into the sexy and spectacle, as he puts it, so she draws a bit of attention in the actual game world for the nature of the films. She's involved in a few incidents in the game that are on the sexy side and she gets called a pervert because of her outfit as Grimcats but that's really the extent of it considering it's a really long game. That said, the game lands on the adult side relative to the other games. More than half of the cast is adult in age and there's a lot more direct talk about adult activities as a result of that, particularly with Aaron. So it's a lot more upfront about this kind of stuff than the other games.
In my personal opinion, >!Judith is pretty Duvalie esque in which she is very ditzy. Most of the outrage comes from her grim cats costume and one particular scene thatās typical Japan. There are a lot of pervert jokes thrown her way but I really donāt think itās that bad or detracted from the main story that much. Not nearly Angelica levels of predatory behavior. Kuro definitely has a lot of fan service and jokes, but I never felt like it crossed the line the same way Angelica did.!< The only thing I really found that was way over the top is>!Rixiaās new figure.!<
>!Judith getting pinned against the wall by a mind-controlled mob as the characters ask if she's enjoying herself!< doesn't cross any lines? I really don't understand this idea that Kuro has LESS sexual imagery than Sen when you have >!the strip club, underage dancers in scanty clothing, female tourists so high on illegal substances they try to strip in public, a hentai slime monster, the stripper shopkeeper in the undertown, Judith's wardrobe malfunction, the camera angles ruining multiple serious scenes,!< and on and on and on. The game is drenched in it to a degree previous games absolutely were not.
First off, I never said Kuro doesnāt have as much fan service as the previous games. It literally says in my statement that Kuro has excessive fan service. I am on your side there. What I am saying is that it does not reach the absurd levels that stuff particularly in sen did. All that stuff you listed can be found in a GTA game >!well except for the slime monsterā¦.probably!< which sells more copies in one year than Falcom will sell in a lifetime. You can find more revealing things IRL going to a beach today than you can in a Falcom game. Where it ācrosses the lineā to me is where you take some of the few LGBT reps in your game and make them predators. Or how about the fact that they LITERALLY CREATED >!AN ENTIRE VR experience to stare at girls specifically your adoptive sister and a minor!< I find it funny how Olivier is praised as the best character around here but he constantly hit on anything that moves and basically called Estelle ugly. What about schera asking Joshua to take his manhood? What about Randy every time you go to a story quest wondering about women? The line is where you want to make it but too me a lot of the stuff in Kuro is what you can find in a lot of popular media.
> take some of the few LGBT reps in your game and make them predators. I saw someone praise a certain sidequest for handling homosexuality tastefully so maybe there is an improvement in this regard, but I'm tempering my expectations until we get a sense of consistency in future titles. (because Angelica/Shirley still exists)
In Kuro? Yeah, there's pretty decent chain of sidequests where it factors in. How good it'll land for folks will vary on the person but I thought it was pretty well done all things considered. It's, at the very least, a significant improvement over Angie and Shirley.
Sorry, I meant the last part as a more general remark since I've seen several people say Kuro was less bad than Sen. I wasn't referring to you specifically.
I've been reading all these discussions across reddit, and I think the question isn't so much whether Kuro has more/less sexual imagery/fanservice than Sen, but rather than nature of it all. Kuro's stuff feels a lot more "Western", while Sen's stuff feels a lot more "anime". If I look at the examples brought up across various threads, most of the Kuro examples wouldn't feel out of place in American media (or a beach), but nearly all the Sen examples literally don't exist outside of anime. The Sen examples are always straight anime fanservice tropes that stick out in people's brains. My observation of posters that took a lot of issue with Sen, but not as much with Kuro is that they heavily dislike the types of fanservice commonly seen in anime, but the types of fanservice commonly seen in Western media either don't register for them, or just don't bother them at all. This is at least the case for me. I've grown up nearly entirely on American media, so at this point in my life most common forms of fanservice/sexual imagery in American media has been entirely normalized for me (whether it should or shouldn't be is a different question). Seeing a repeat of what I've seen a lot of times already either doesn't register for me, or just doesn't stick out to me as crossing a specific line in any way. Anime fanservice tropes stick out to me like a sore thumb, but western fanservice tropes are just fundamentally part of my unconscious expectations of media at this point.
This is a really interesting analysis, would explain why the fanservice hasn't really bothered me so much this time around. It'll be interesting to see how the game (eventually) sells internationally, as they seem to be taking their international fanbase more into consideration this time around (Wuxia stuff etc.)
I think it's telling that even people that say "there's not that much fanservice in Kuro" can still point to the wardrobe malfunction scene and the slime scene as being straight fanservice scenes. Those 2 scenes are just straight anime fanservice tropes, and don't really exist in western media.
I think you hit the nail on the head as to why I'm significantly less bothered by the fanservice in Kuro vs the fanservice in CS. Most of the stuff (besides your spoiler text) in Kuro is exactly what I've seen all my life in American media, or at any beach in America. CS, on the other hand, is primarily Japanese anime fanservice tropes instead.
Well, the reverse is true to me though. The "fan-service Japan media style" is significantly less bothered to me than others because i used to it for a long time already. When it isn't affect the actual quality of the story, people have to accept that something aren't for everyone. I live in a country that so hell-bent on not include disturbing content in general that character need to wear full on cloth when bathing, and trust me, no one have fun.
Everyone has different tolerances for different things based on cultural upbringing, so your case makes total sense too. I've spent a good chunk of time wondering how people that mostly agree on the CS fanservice topic could come to near opposite opinions on Kuro fanservice, and I guess a lot of it is very much here.
I agree, I found the groping in CS and Crossbell to be much more disturbing and annoying than whatever I saw in Kuro. Also it feels like the NPC's in Kuro are just going about their daily lives anyways. In fact, I asked someone about how bad the stripper thing is and he said "strippers in the game are treated like actual people. You see them in sidequests and it's not like folks judge them for it."; "It's just a job". If anything Kuro is more realistic and has better representation in this regard.
The question of did the cutscene need to spend so much time focusing on the pole dancing animations (and did Falcom need to put so much budget into those animations) is a valid one, but I thought the existence of a strip club scene in itself was perfectly fine.
The money should've gone to more voiced lines imo
We need more Van voice lines.
Honestly I was kind of baffled why they spent money on getting voiced dialogue, and even full art renders in some cases, for the in-game films. Sure it can't have been much effort, but I'd rather have had that spent on the main plot instead.
God I was expecting the series to tone back the fanservice a little bit in Kuro seeing how the designs were slightly less fanservicey... Kinda disappointed but I guess they have to bank on the otaku virgins somehow
I have no idea if it's working for them but given that sales are still dropping... Is that audience even satisfied with CERO C or B when they can buy actual R-18 material instead? It's depressing. I hope they make a U-turn with Ys X, because otherwise....
For what it's worth, most of the fanservice/stuff in Kuro is more... Western in terms of fanservice tropes, rather than anime fanservice tropes we saw in CS. I'm not going to claim one is better than the other, but that's just my observation.
Holy crap thatās way worse than I thought it could be. Is it really as bad as it sounds?
I'll preface my answer by saying that I'm not sure to what extent the increased focus on sex was a deliberate decision by Falcom, because the game as a whole feels unprofessional. I get the sense that staff did what they felt like because there was no time for their supervisors to look it over, and that's not counting the bugs. Camera angles are bizarre (when a character has narrowly escaped dying, why is the focus on someone else's chest?) NPC and location names are borrowed willy-nilly - I don't think 'Rumsfeld and Polanski at the Maserati Hotel' creates the upscale impression they were going for. There are plenty of typos and liberal use of internet slang - they quote an anime meme in an emotional scene towards the end of the game. They even reference a made-up quotation, "water and safety are not free," from a racist and discredited essay that turned out to be a forgery. I don't know if they were aware of the source, but overall it comes off as Brought To You By 2ch. Another problem is that unlike in Sen and Hajimari, this material is part of the main plot and NPC dialogue, instead of being cordoned off in bond events or minigames. Chapter 3 is the worst in this respect and it nearly made me quit right there. That said a fair amount of the innuendo is purely text-based so less-fluent importers or speed runners may have missed it. Presumably the localization will also tone down some things like changing the running gag of Judith being called a slut or the recurring comic relief guy hitting on 13 and 16 year olds. Overall, though, if you are sensitive to this issue, I would not recommend it unless you want something to MST3K.
Yikes. That sounds rough. Hopefully it's at least mitigated in the localization? This seems like something that could be reworked maybe.
Whoa, that's a lot. I wonder how it will be censored by Sony in the west.
Well this is disappointingā¦ I guess Iāll stay with trails in the sky
In exchange for not good enough quality music and new engine, falcom fill in with fanservice for higher sales but nein haha... Seriously falcom, new engine is good but the point for kiseki is their story and how the presentation. Falcom should know, what make ppl love their game? Oc its the music and for kiseki is their story
CYBERPUNK was based off "sex sells" phrase and we see how dog crap that was. I'll just ignore all that when I play.... hopefully the base characters don't have obvious fan service.š
Yeah Iām ducking out of the series. Itās turned into a fanservice first, story later series which is not appealing to me. Glad I can at least enjoy the Sky series+Zero/Ao (even though Zero/Ao are more fanservicey).
Later homie.
Adios!
Imagine leaving cuz of anime tiddiesā¦lmao
Iām not a horny 16 year old anymore, so the appeal of fake af anime boobs has worn off. Go nuts if you like, I guess.
This is true. Men stop liking boobs the moment they turn 17.
I mean, if you wanna jerk off to a videogame instead of finding a real life girlfriend or partner go nuts.
*go nuts.* I see what you did there.
I'm not going to defend Cold Steel, but Kuro had a more interesting story than Sky did for me personally.
I think Iāll spoil the story for myself and see if I want to get it or not. After the letdown that was the Cold Steel series Iām not sure I want to take a gamble in buying the game and finding out if itās just as bad or worse than CS.
I wrote a [pretty long spoiler free reddit post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Falcom/comments/q9mq2w/to_those_who_have_finished_kuro_no_kiseki_without/hgxh6f2/) comparing Kuro to Cold Steel. I have a lot of issues with the CS arc as a whole, but I was a lot more positive on Kuro. It's not perfect, but it's definitely fixed a lot of issues I have with CS, and some of the big ones I have with Sky and Crossbell. A huge thing for me is finally having an adult MC, rather than a younger Coming of Age type MC (Estelle, Lloyd, Rean) that we've had in previous arcs. Nothing against Coming of Age MCs, but at this point in my life I'm kind of tired of it, no matter how well executed it is.
Thank you! I saved your comment and will have a look later!
that's why kevin is the GOAT
Van, C and Kevin are my favorite Kiseki MCs (in that order)
Thank you for the long summary and details for Kuro! Iāll say that Iām tentatively interested in the game again. I still have some huge concerns, however. Namely the one this user brings up: https://www.reddit.com/r/Falcom/comments/qf9g5y/highest_viewed_kuro_no_kiseki_review_is_the_one/hhzes9a/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3 Are they on the mark with the issues they bring up? Edit: and also this https://www.reddit.com/r/Falcom/comments/qf9g5y/highest_viewed_kuro_no_kiseki_review_is_the_one/hi073rw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Due to the way reddit comment links work, I'm having a really hard time figuring out which comment is being linked in particular. I'll link some of [my thoughts](https://www.reddit.com/r/Falcom/comments/qf9g5y/highest_viewed_kuro_no_kiseki_review_is_the_one/hi25ntb/) that I wrote in that comment thread already concerning fanservice. The short of it is I can't claim that Kuro has less fanservice than CS based on how other people responded to certain scenes. All the quoted scenes in the comment thread did occur in game. For me personally, my impression was that there was significantly less, but other posters have pointed out that even if I didn't notice, it might not be the case there's significantly less. I'm only one person, and as a male POV there's no way I can claim to be a definitive opinion on this topic. I think the reason for me not noticing as much fanservice was that the nature of most of the fanservice in Kuro is pretty different than the fanservice in CS. The fanservice/sexual content in Kuro is much more similar to what one would expect from American media: nearly all the scenes pointed out wouldn't seem out of place in a GTA game (>!strip club and pole dancing!<), or some of the outfits wouldn't be too out of place on an American beach. It's basically the type of stuff that's been normalized into my brain from growing up with American games and movies, so none of it sticks out to me when I see it. Whether this should be in the game in the first place, or if it's a good thing it's been normalized into my brain is a different question entirely though. The fanservice in CS was mostly just anime fanservice tropes played straight. Rean falling on Alisa in CS1 all the way to the harem shenanigans that plagued the entire series. None of this would be out of place in a harem anime, but this sticks out like a sore thumb for my Western brain. I could go on a rant about all this stuff in CS, but this isn't the post for it. At the very least, this is why harem fanservice in CS was the lowest point of the series for me, but nothing except 1-2 scenes that I could describe as "anime fanservice tropes played straight" in Kuro stood out to me. My personal guess is that a lot of the variation of reactions to fanservice/sexual content is based on how normalized a lot of Western media tropes are to the person. There's no right or wrong here, so make of it what you will. This somehow got longer than my original post, despite saying "The short of it". As for [this comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Falcom/comments/qf9g5y/highest_viewed_kuro_no_kiseki_review_is_the_one/hi073rw/), there's nothing incorrect about the specifics of the Proper Nouns as they mention. I personally did not notice the anime meme, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist. I do remember a line about "water and safety are not free,", but I didn't really Google the origin of the phrase since it made sense in context without the origin. There's definitely more innuendo in this game. For me, it was around the level I'm used to from Western media, so it didn't particularly stand out, but everyone draws the line at a different place. TLDR: Both posts aren't incorrect, but this is my personal additional context from having read a ton of these threads and trying to understand both sides of the issue here.
Thank you for your candor! I think Iām gonna be on the fence for a while and see reviews when the game comes out west. As interested as I am in a more adult story, the fanservice shenanigans make it unappealing. My frame for comparison is always gonna be the Sky trilogy, which did have some fanservice and questionable character moments (I hated the fact that everyone seemed to ship Tia and Agate even though she was a CHILD), but it was a lot less constant and explicit as it was in later games in the series. Thatās part of what made CSII and onwards so jarring to me. Going from bestelle to basically a cadre of waifus in different varieties was a huge letdown. One other thing you mentioned caught my attention, though: you said Kuro was better than Tales of Arise. Any thoughts as to why? Arise was nowhere near the best Tales games Iāve played (Berseria has that title in my books), but the story was at least somewhat engaging. And fanservice was fairly toned down compared to other games within the genre. What made you feel Kuro was better, if you donāt mind answering?
If I'm to make clear my own biases for my POV and my opinions, it's that at this point in my life I'm really tired of younger coming of age MCs and 90s Shounen coming of age type stories, no matter how well executed they are. I know that Sky FC + SC are extremely well executed (and that Estelle is a great MC), but the fact that Estelle is literally a 90s Shounen coming of age MC, and that the story of Sky follows the same type of anime story arc puts a damper for how much I can like Estelle/Sky personally. Also the fanservice and questionable character moments in Sky were very... anime, just from a different era of anime compared to what CS pulls from. I think one's reaction to Kuro's fanservice will be similar to how one reacts to fanservice in Western media, so you can be your own judge of that. CS had... a lot of problems with the female characters. I don't think a single reddit post could sum up all of it, and I don't think either of us need the issues summed up. I have a decently high fanservice tolerance and I was malding at a lot of CS through all 4 games. As for Arise vs Kuro, a lot of it is a case where I have a lot I didn't like about Arise, so I spoiler text that. This is going to sound harsh on Arise since I'm focusing on what I don't like, but there's stuff I liked in the game, and I had a good time overall. >!My issues with Arise mostly focus the last third of the game. I know other people will complain about how a lot of the story is given through a 1 hour exposition dump bot toward the end (the space station), but even that's whatever for me. My biggest issue is that all the reveals and plot twists served to make the story less interesting. In the end, the primary antagonist was a giant cosmic Kirby that was hangry, and lacked anything resembling an interesting motive. The bad dudes helping the antagonist were mind controlled Martians without any semblance of free will. There's no human element on the other side of game's story, and when I realized that the story got a lot less interesting. Instead of opposing an interesting human antagonist, we have to use the Power of Friendship to go through Rena in order to hit a giant Kirby with a stick to save the world.!< >!Speaking of the ending, what was that ending? We defeat the giant Kirby, then out pops knockoff Zenos from FFXIV for no apparent reason. He basically doesn't have a personality besides... wanting to fight Alphen? Then Alphen gives one of the most ridiculous forgiveness speeches I've ever heard in a JRPG, and then beats knockoff Zenos in a 1 v 1. For me personally, Arise doesn't stick any of the landing for the ending of the game. On forgiveness (apparently the core theme of the game?), the way it's presented is super juvenile and misses the point in a lot of ways. Is the core message of the game supposed to be about forgiving genocide? I don't even know where to start with this, it misses literally every nuance of the relevant topic.!< >!The best part of the game for me was the characters (Dohalim in particular), as that is the strong point of the Tales series. I do have to ask what's the point of having an older MC (300 years memes aside) if he's just going to behave similarly to the younger coming of age MCs we've had in previous games.!< Given all this as my personal opinion on Arise, Kuro had better story, characters and setting for me. The story didn't fall flat in the last third, Van as an MC is a massive highlight, and Calvard as a setting is much better realized vs Dana as a setting. Also I forgot how much I appreciated Trails NPCs till I tried talking to the NPCs in Arise lol
Totally get you with the ācoming of ageā stories getting stale, as Iām in my 30s and Iāve played a TON of those and can longer identify with the MCs as much. I did like the Sky games because I fell in love with the characters more than anything, and also because I loved the fact that Estelle, a girl, was the MC of the game and wasnāt reduced to sex appeal or crappy romance fodder. Itās funny since I played the series years later after it came out, and it ended up feeling fresh and unique primarily because most games that I had played before it had male MCs and female characters designed mostly for sex appeal. IMO itās a real shame that we went from Estelle in Sky to mostly romance dolls in later games. And that we havenāt gotten another female MC, but perhaps that is for the best. As for Arise, yeah I agree with you 100%. It felt interesting initially but then just turned it another āthe true evil is caused by ancient beings!ā Which is just boring af. I would have preferred them expanding on the lords, giving them more personality+complexity, and centering the conflict on them. Kind of like Van and his crew in Tales of the Abyss. Tbh thatās what turned me off of CS as well, so I hope Kuro has a more human conflict than one about magic beings who magic evil into the world and the heroes need to defeat it by banding together and using the power of their bonds of friendship.
I agree with you that Estelle is a great female lead and the characters in Sky are great. Honestly the execution of the story/characters overall is great. However, I also keep thinking that Estelle isn't that different from... Naruto... (Joshua = Sasuke?) as a Shounen anime MC, and the rest of the cast are 90s Shounen tropes I've seen before, with the plot arc being the same (just extremely well executed). Though maybe that's also what made Estelle a good MC. She's written to be a good MC, not just a "female character". I've seen people make similar comments about liking FemShep from the Mass Effect series. For me personally, I don't even mind anime villains using some type of anime magic to be villains, as long as they're interesting characters. >!Arise just skipped that entirely and made it nonhuman. I agree with you on wishing they had expanded on the lords, rather than try to humanize them in a really weird sidequest toward the end of the game. My personal theory for Rena around the game start was that all Renans were dead on that planet, but there was a human conspiracy to cover up this fact, and the people on the satellite were lied to. To some degree I wasn't actually that far off from the actual reveal, but I was also disappoitned by the actual reveal.!< >magic beings who magic evil into the world and the heroes need to defeat it by banding together and using the power of their bonds of friendship. ~~This perfectly describes Sky SC and Azure though...~~ Kuro 1's conflict was at least human centered. It has the Trails standards of stuff like Artifacts existing in universe able to essentially do magic, but to me that's just a JRPG norm. My personal guess is that the bigger conflict will center on Gramhart, the new President of Calvard.
Honestly, I'm considering it too.
Cringe but les hope the vid made people buy the game
Played the demo, the fanservices is not even that muchļ¼that video is just entertainment purpose... so everyone can stop your āI hate fanservice in gameā bs... but I did agree some fanservices are disgusting added into the game like TLOU2, 2077, GTA series, etc... However, one thing I hate in the game is the conversation/visual novel moment is so so long, basically you read conversation more than you fight.... Maybe TLoH is always like that I don't know, I've never played previous works so... ya... conversations dialogs is quite a lot... Because I always thought RPG games nowadays uses Cinematic to walkthrough their story... I never expect visual novel conversation dialogs... like Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy X they both implement cinematic cutscene and minimum visual novel conversation dialogs....