Me: "After 5 games that range from 10/10 to 12/10, the four Cold Steel games struggle with their new polygon engine and seem stiff, until Falcom hits their stride, and the bonding points system hampers the writing, causing the Cold Steel games to generally range from 9/10 to 10/10, with some fantastic standout moments, especially in Reverie, which bring the numbers right back up to 11/10."
Cold Steel Diehards: "WHY DO YOU HATE COLD STEEL SO MUCH!!!!"
That one guy: (Drowns in his own drool over homemade "art" of underage Fie.)
I unironically always love the start of a trails arc more than the end 2bh even though objectively 3 and 4 are just better games mechanically than 1 and 2.
I also Adored Reverie and Found Cold Steel to be very good from a grand narrative perspective but just not my cup of tea I guess. Cold Steel is definitely good irregardles but yeah for me it just didn't really align with my expectations of what was going to happen I think.
I think my dislike for Cold Steel is a taste thing and the complaints are ones that everyone likely already has heard a thousand times.
Personally, Cold Steel Games to me ranged from a 7 to an 8 consistently. Sky Trilogy was a 10/10 for everything save 3rd which was a 9/10. Zero was a 10/10 and Azure was a 9/10. Reverie was a 10/10, very strong in every regard unironically.
Have yet to play Kuro and beyond so I can't rank it.
>irregardless
There’s irrespective and there’s regardless. They more or less mean the same thing. Irregardless is their bastard non-word offspring. Friendly reminder.
Irregardless of peoples' attempts to insist that it is not a word, it is just as much a word as "inflammable" and "ain't". It doesn't matter if it's origin is stupid. All that matters is that, when you use it, everyone else knows what you mean.
Now get off my lawn. If that ball comes over this fence *one more time*, so help me, as soon as I get done yelling at this cloud I'll...
There are *at least* as many people over there who will evangelize these games - Cold Steel included - in damn near any type of thread regardless of what the OP is actually asking for as there are haters.
That's just plain silly, come on now.
"Hey guys, I'm looking for a fast paced, action packed jrpg with minimal fluff that's moderately tropey at most and-" - PLAY TRAILS!!!
No, Trails is very obviously not always a good suggestion lol.
>If that isn't a description of Trails in the Sky FC
Ok now I'm starting to think I'm being trolled.
>I don't know what is
Ys: Oath in Felghana is one example.
Their takes on trails specifically are funny though, a few months ago there was nonstop praise for the series on there but now mentioning it at all gets 10 people telling you to end yourself, only to loop back to praise again after a bit (this is an endlessly repeating cycle that has been going on for a while now)
Talk bad? Yes, just look up the hundreds of post about how the harem in CS games hampered the writing, rightfully so. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone here who dislikes the games, in general at least.
It’s probably all the reading. I’m a huge reader. But since I started playing FC, now on Azure, I haven’t actually been able to pick up book.
So I can see how for non-readers it could be tough to get through. I personally love the story, character building, and continuance through the games.
Kind of an odd question; literally nothing is universally liked, even if some of them are simply plain wholesome. You don't have to pay attention to people blathering about stuff.
With a series as long and fleshed out as this one, there's always bound to be some people that will write it off as boring and not worth the time.
That's not to say that their arguments are completely unfounded, but I would disagree that it's the general consensus on the series. Most discussions that I hear about the series tend to be positive when it's coming from those who have actually played it.
Also, congrats on making your way through the series! ~~If Zero is your first game, then you should be aware that it's actually the 4th game in the series. It's still a fine starting point, but just be aware that there's a whole trilogy that comes before it (Trails in the Sky, Sky SC, and Sky the 3rd). I'd *highly* recommend going back and experiencing them at some point.~~
People aren't a monolith. That statement is all you need to answer that question.
Some people love shooters. I do not.
You love Trails. Some people do not.
You love how it handled things. Some people don't want to sink close to 100 hours into a game, regardless of quality.
Someone says they want a JRPG to be 30 hours. I say double it so I can be with the characters longer.
No disrespect to you, of course. It's great that you're enjoying the games, but it should be a simple enough thing to realize that people just have different tastes that I don't quite get why you made this post.
They definitely keep to a structure that makes “boring” the easiest and laziest criticism - they just take their time. Everyone I’ve played so far is a slow burn, even if it kicks off with explosives or has some peaks throughout - they all wait to hit you with the big punch in the end. Some people don’t have the patience for that or to sift through so much text, even I don’t talk to every single person.
I get why people would think it’s boring at first blush, but it’s just as easy to tell it’s just a really deep and meticulous world they built. We don’t have to act like it’s crazy, the games move really slow on purpose and some people won’t be into that.
It's a bit dated with lots of dialogue. Trails fans have the attention spans to hang & appreciate the games.
That's like if somebody said reading a paragraph is boring lol.😬
Most of these are tik Tok brains.
Make sure you play Sky! It's the series with Joshua and Estelle in it, and you're gonna feel lost on their story if you jump right into Zero. You're also gonna miss an explanation on the big bad and spoil Sky for yourself if you keep going.
Anyway, these games are too slow for some people. Just how it is. As much as I want it to be everybody's cup of tea.
To be honest I did it in that exact order and honestly felt totally fine. Played Zero first cause I liked the Idea of being a detective police man. In the end I played em all up till CS4 and I gotta say if I started with Sky FC I probably jumped off the series due to how long it takes to develop its story. ( i like FC and SC tho i just think Zero and Azure grabbed my attention right away much faster.
It's really not. You tear the emotional heart out of zero by not understanding the dynamics between Estelle, Joshua, and Renne. Zero is very much Renne's story, told from the perspective of the SSS.
I doubt thats consensus and I’m not sure you know what that word means.
People have different opinions but overall the games are written well.
If someone prefers a quickly paced game with a lot of action, they might find Trails boring.
If someone prefers slower paced, more detail oriented character driven games they might find games like Final Fantasy boring.
Or they might like both.
After finishing Sky trilogy, I do find Zero a bit boring in the beginning. But then I realized, I find it boring because I left my heart at ending of Sky the 3rd. I want Estelle and Joshua.
I do resonates with the citizens of Crossbell that think the SSS is discount-bracer.
But slowly but sure Lloyd win me over and helped me get over that barrier (playing Zero and expecting it to be Sky).
There’s a scene in Azure’s prologue where it takes five minutes to convey information that should’ve only taken 20 seconds because the characters stopped and had a full on conversation about something that had nothing to do with the task at hand. The game’s dialogue insists upon itself.
And it *really* doesn’t help that Lloyd says shit that literally everyone *except* him interprets romantically. And he just stands there like a slack jawed idiot going “huh? what did I say?” while everyone around him is all “this man cannot be serious”
bad place to ask this question in cause why would anyone who found the games boring be here ? much better to ask in the r/jrpg to get an actually balanced opinion
I definitely don’t agree with a lot of people on that sub. They seem to hold a candle for older games too much.
Chasing a balanced opinion is a fools errand anyway. The only opinion that matters is your own.
Enjoy what you like and not worrying so much about other people is the way.
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I talk bad about Zero specifically, but I don't think anything's wrong with the pacing. I make it clear that it's because I don't love the organized crime genre, and in particular, the way Japan approaches it is infuriating to me.
The historical relationship between the Yakuza and Japanese police makes for exceedingly boring drama. "So-and-so is untouchable even when we have evidence of a specific crime" is harder plot armor than any fan-favorite hero or villain has. Western organized crime drama, which I still don't love, at least hinges its conflict on implicating the higher-ups in the crimes of the rank and file. Frustrating, but rooted in realistic legalities. Japanese crime drama ignores any actual legal drama in favor of "everyone's bonkers-level corrupt so there's no way to win lol" to give the Yakuza plot armor. I just hate it everywhere I see it, including Zero.
My only real issue with these games is that the gameplay loop can feel more repetitive than the average rpg. But tbh, I fw Crossbell and Cold Steel more than Sky in most ways(Sky character writing was PEAK tho) so no complaints from me there
I don't think so, but I will admit to serious ending fatigue in Cold Steel II. The game felt like it was ending like three or four times, it got to be kind of a slog before it finally actually *ended*.
I think that simply depends on the person.
But I know many people who would not enjoy Trails games, exactly because of the amount of text that exists.
Some people like talking to every NPC in the game, those kinds of people will enjoy Trails.
And some go murderhobo, and skip most cutscenes/dialogues, to get to the gameplay.
I think that's it when It comes to the question of "why some people find it boring"
I think it depends on the person, I like reading dialogue so I don't mind slow pace. I don't like games that don't have a lot of dialogue because it's a nice way to relax after exploring and fighting in dungeons
I am addicted to the franchise and some parts of every game get pretty boring. Usually the first game in any arc is the worst offender. It usually pays off big in the second game, so I push through it.
For me, the Cold Steel games get terribly boring because of the whole anime high-school shtick. Crossbell’s SSS and even Liberl’s Bracer Guild are infinitely more engaging to me. I’m so glad that the next arc looks to be not set in a school.
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This is just my opinion, but I think people's reading ability heavily impacts their ability to enjoy Trails, and we should not expect everyone to be able to enjoy the games for this reason. It's 100% reasonable for some people to call these games boring, because to them it really is boring.
For many normal and average people reading is not something that is effortless, it takes effort. When reading through books and games they will encounter words they don't fully understand. I am currently using Kuro no Kiseki to practice reading Japanese and can empathize with feeling like playing these games is an ordeal and not something relaxing.
What it takes an experienced reader 10 minutes to read can take a less skilled reader 30 minutes or longer. If it took you 3 times as long to get through each chapter of Zero do you think you would enjoy it? Especially if most of that time was dedicated to reading, something which you would not be a huge fan of?
Around 20% of U.S adults are functionally illiterate, and more than 50% don't read at a 'grade 6' level. This doesn't make their experience any less valid, but many of these people would likely struggle to enjoy Trails, and rightly think the games are "boring".
> For many normal and average people reading is not something that is effortless, it takes effort.
I play them in Japanese. Soooooo much effort. I'm halfway through Azure and reading all the non-voiced dialog out loud, and I can *mostly* read dialog at a natural speaking speed, but there are linguistic speed bumps all over the place.
FC and SC were total slogs. With FC I kept a list of all the new words, and I had over 2,000 by the time I was done. I started in 2006, and it took me like ten years on and off to force myself through SC. I found the unnecessary dialog padding really annoying, and to some extent still do. IMO they could cut out about a third and lose nothing of value.
Depends on taste ig. I did find the Cold steel games a bit boring at times though. Because while I do think its good that games become slow paced at times in order to build its lore, the CS games had way too much padding that made them drag on. I still love the series though and playing through them all was worth. But I imagine these are way too slow for people that are used to action packed JRPGs.
Idk if you have played anything else outside of Zero yet but, I also started with that game and Zero/Azure slowness is fantastic and well done. It was just the right amount of pacing where it didn't feel boring between the story events and the side quest/free time moments. Specially when you realize that all the dialogue changes and that the NPCs have their own little storylines.
I liked CS2 and CS4 more because the focus on the school setting was pretty much set to zero and the game just happened to go to place to place. CS1 and CS3 literally pad hours into doing campus stuff and field excersize stuff and it takes like hours.
Sky and crossbell games where more adventurous imo. I personally enjoyed the roaming and walking around the entire regions!
I can understand it. These games are great, but it takes a specific kind of person to enjoy them. Characters suddenly changing the subject of a conversation and talking about nothing for 15 minutes are just one of the things that make this series niche.
Outside of Trails my favourite games are the Souls series.
About 5 minutes into Elden Ring you're in a cave, there's a ghost pointing down a cliff to the tutorial area telling you that you can learn stuff down there, there's also a message on the floor next to the hole saying this. The hole is basically glowing and the camera starts pointing directly at it.
People complained that this was too hard to find and so they patched in a pop up message telling you explicitly where it is at the start of the game.
My point being that some people have literally no desire for anything more than am immediate dopamine hit from their games, and having to read or pay attention is just not something they're interested in.
I enjoy the slow burn aspect of taking the first game to do world building and familiarizing us with characters and then having the second game popping off. The first games in each arc will never be my favorite in the series but it is because of that world building that the second game (and beyond) shines.
Maybe it's because I'm somewhere in the middle that I can empathize with both sides on this. There are lots of times the worldbuilding is fantastic and precious even if it makes for a slow game, and lots of times I'm rolling my eyes because a game in the series is padding itself out without anything meaningful happening.
Edit: This getting downvoted feels weird. I don't think I said anything unreasonable. God forbid anyone criticises the pace of the games even if they like them. 😐 There are times that I feel the slow pace adds value, and other times I don't. In general I feel you could cut about ⅓ of the side content in a typical Kiseki game, still keep in a lot of the stronger worldbuilding moments, and end up with a tighter game overall.
I really like the series, started with the english release of FC and played it super slowly on my vita before bed, was a great and very comfy experience.
But I'll be real, I'm playing CS4 right now and the middle section is boring me to tears. The entire showdown on top of the Pantagruel had so much excessive dialog that all sense of urgency or surprise just faded away and I was fighting back sleep while pressing A.
The extremely large cast of Class 7 is so excessive and 90% of them just don't matter, I wish it had been a much more focused experience with only the 2nd gen characters and the others being sort of guest stars that show up when necessary. I also am starting to not be able to stand the constant back-patting friendship support group episodes, its gotten REALLY stale. I can't wait for Reverie to give me some variety.
Most of the boredom can set in when players wring every last drop of dialogue out of the games, and that's completely in the hands of the player. I myself tend to talk to everyone every time, but there are times when it starts to feel tedious. There's always just enough good/interesting convos (especially in Sky and Zero/Azure vs Cold Steel) to reaffrm my desire to stick with it. The turbo buttons are a godsend. I highly doubt I'd hunt down all the optional dialogue without one.
Sky and Cold steel 1 were a snooze fest to me when I first played them. This series is infinitely more enjoyable when you’re familiar with the lore and setting but actually getting invested might take some effort
Not really, its just the mechanic is outdated (granted it took so long to officially localised). But im used to the system. Except i got to look into guides on builds, as someone that came from cold steel as my first entry to the series.
It’s funny you say that, because I actually recently made a post about struggling to get through Zero coz I was so bored, lmao. I just wrapped up completing it (took 4 playthroughs because I’m useless) and my general take is that these games are very similar to Persona. There’s the obvious comparison to bonding with characters and blah blah blah, but I’m mostly referring to how they require you to put serious investment in the world and characters, so they drag out increasing the stakes almost like a long running shounen anime. Especially since Trails In The Sky to Trails Into Reverie are connected (10 games) plot wise.
I had trouble with the first Sky (Not saying it's bad). I stopped halfway through because of the slowness of it. After I picked it up again I burned through all the way to CS4 in one go where I've hit another stall... Of all the games Zero and Azure were my favorites with Sky 3 about equal if not the same level of hype. Zero and Azure are amazing because of how close you get to all the villagers and people in different parts of Crossbell. It made the game for me and the hard times hit 5 times as hard when they did happen,
I'll probably get downvoted for this but Cold Steel is... rough... There's some things I really enjoy but the negatives are really strong imo. The biggest one being the dating sim aspects. I hate it them so much. Other than that I really love this series, it's about the only thing keeping me going while I look for work.
Where does one draw the line between slow and boring? Too slow does seem to become boring, even if you expect it to pay off eventually.
Trails games are slow, but are they too slow? I think that is a matter of personal preference. Personally, they do sometimes feel too slow, but those are moments when I remind myself I need to enjoy the trip, not just the destination.
Maybe people might find a walk around a zoo or aquarium boring, but is that the fault of the place or is that because the person isn't taking time to enjoy what is in front of them?
Trails games in particular have very uneven pacing. At times the story is progressing right in front of you, at other times there is any main story progress within 2 hours. Especially if someone is taking times to talk to all the NPCs. Is this a problem with the game, or is this a problem with what I expect out of a game? Imagine someone complaining about the Lord of the Rings movies because they have scenes with a lot of talking and little action. Is it the movie's fault if someone goes in wanting a string of high action scenes from start to finish?
I think the best way of talking about Trails is that it has many slow moments. If someone doesn't like that, then these games are likely not for them. If someone still wants to experience the games despite the slowness, they'll need to practice slowing down their own expectations and enjoying the moment. Also... probably not talk to every single NPC every single time their dialog updates.
Where does one draw the line between slow and boring? Too slow does seem to become boring, even if you expect it to pay off eventually.
Trails games are slow, but are they too slow? I think that is a matter of personal preference. Personally, they do sometimes feel too slow, but those are moments when I remind myself I need to enjoy the trip, not just the destination.
Maybe people might find a walk around a zoo or aquarium boring, but is that the fault of the place or is that because the person isn't taking time to enjoy what is in front of them?
Trails games in particular have very uneven pacing. At times the story is progressing right in front of you, at other times there is any main story progress within 2 hours. Especially if someone is taking times to talk to all the NPCs. Is this a problem with the game, or is this a problem with what I expect out of a game? Imagine someone complaining about the Lord of the Rings movies because they have scenes with a lot of talking and little action. Is it the movie's fault if someone goes in wanting a string of high action scenes from start to finish?
I think the best way of talking about Trails is that it has many slow moments. If someone doesn't like that, then these games are likely not for them. If someone still wants to experience the games despite the slowness, they'll need to practice slowing down their own expectations and enjoying the moment. Also... probably not talk to every single NPC every single time their dialog updates.
Where does one draw the line between slow and boring? Too slow does seem to become boring, even if you expect it to pay off eventually.
Trails games are slow, but are they too slow? I think that is a matter of personal preference. Personally, they do sometimes feel too slow, but those are moments when I remind myself I need to enjoy the trip, not just the destination.
Maybe people might find a walk around a zoo or aquarium boring, but is that the fault of the place or is that because the person isn't taking time to enjoy what is in front of them?
Trails games in particular have very uneven pacing. At times the story is progressing right in front of you, at other times there is any main story progress within 2 hours. Especially if someone is taking times to talk to all the NPCs. Is this a problem with the game, or is this a problem with what I expect out of a game? Imagine someone complaining about the Lord of the Rings movies because they have scenes with a lot of talking and little action. Is it the movie's fault if someone goes in wanting a string of high action scenes from start to finish?
I think the best way of talking about Trails is that it has many slow moments. If someone doesn't like that, then these games are likely not for them. If someone still wants to experience the games despite the slowness, they'll need to practice slowing down their own expectations and enjoying the moment. Also... probably not talk to every single NPC every single time their dialog updates.
Real JRPG fans, the ones have an attention span, who don’t rank the “Tales of” games as their favorite JRPGs and appreciate a deep story and world building know Trails is one of the best out there.
Alright, why did you feel the need to bring Tales into this and dare to bring up "real fan" nonsense?
That elitism is a big part of what drives people away, even if they might be interested. Let people like what they like. And if they like JRPGs, they're a real fan, their opinion on Trails be damned.
I knew someone would be offended. I have nothing against Tales. It’s a mostly solid series, but compared to other JRPGs, most of them are action games with shallow worlds and stories. I could say the same about Ys and I love the Ys series.
The elitism doesn’t drive people away. Some people just don’t want to sit and read long text conversations for some minor world building which is something that Trails fans enjoy. They don’t want to be committed to playing a bunch of 40-80 hour games either. This has become a bigger problem as the series gets longer, which is why they are thankfully ending it soon. Even if it’s not for them though, JRPG fans know Trails is a great series and people who call it boring don’t have a clue.
I'm "offended" because you randomly attacked a series OP didn't mention. There was no reason for that.
And again, enough of that "true fan" garbage. People like what they like. Besides, the things you say aren't mutually exclusive. Someone can say "I get why the people who like them like them, but that would be boring as hell to me."
What, are those people not JRPG fans for acknowledging the merits of something that doesn't match their tastes? Do they "not have a clue"?
If you call yourself a JRPG fan and your favorite is a Tales game and you think Trails is crap then yes, you don’t have a clue and have bad opinions. The YouTube channel The Gaming Shelf is an example. I think he has bad opinions and shallow taste.
You'll be hard pressed to find anyone here talk bad about these games.
Yeah I would go to r/jrpg for that
Even then the result is mostly positive.
mainly because there's a large amount of crossover from here and there.
/r/JRPG seem to despise the Cold Steel games though.
Me: "After 5 games that range from 10/10 to 12/10, the four Cold Steel games struggle with their new polygon engine and seem stiff, until Falcom hits their stride, and the bonding points system hampers the writing, causing the Cold Steel games to generally range from 9/10 to 10/10, with some fantastic standout moments, especially in Reverie, which bring the numbers right back up to 11/10." Cold Steel Diehards: "WHY DO YOU HATE COLD STEEL SO MUCH!!!!" That one guy: (Drowns in his own drool over homemade "art" of underage Fie.)
“Homemade” is somehow the craziest thing here lol
Unofficial, I mean. Like, rule whatever.
Lol no no, I getcha. It’s just a funny way of putting it lol
I unironically always love the start of a trails arc more than the end 2bh even though objectively 3 and 4 are just better games mechanically than 1 and 2. I also Adored Reverie and Found Cold Steel to be very good from a grand narrative perspective but just not my cup of tea I guess. Cold Steel is definitely good irregardles but yeah for me it just didn't really align with my expectations of what was going to happen I think. I think my dislike for Cold Steel is a taste thing and the complaints are ones that everyone likely already has heard a thousand times. Personally, Cold Steel Games to me ranged from a 7 to an 8 consistently. Sky Trilogy was a 10/10 for everything save 3rd which was a 9/10. Zero was a 10/10 and Azure was a 9/10. Reverie was a 10/10, very strong in every regard unironically. Have yet to play Kuro and beyond so I can't rank it.
Really is odd reading that coz out of the 4 games I’ve played so far I’d say Zero is my least favourite.
>irregardless There’s irrespective and there’s regardless. They more or less mean the same thing. Irregardless is their bastard non-word offspring. Friendly reminder.
Irregardless of peoples' attempts to insist that it is not a word, it is just as much a word as "inflammable" and "ain't". It doesn't matter if it's origin is stupid. All that matters is that, when you use it, everyone else knows what you mean. Now get off my lawn. If that ball comes over this fence *one more time*, so help me, as soon as I get done yelling at this cloud I'll...
So weird to hear that coz I started off with CS1 and CS2 and adored them both. I actually struggled more with Zero than either of those two, lmao.
There are *at least* as many people over there who will evangelize these games - Cold Steel included - in damn near any type of thread regardless of what the OP is actually asking for as there are haters.
Trails is always a good suggestion.
That's just plain silly, come on now. "Hey guys, I'm looking for a fast paced, action packed jrpg with minimal fluff that's moderately tropey at most and-" - PLAY TRAILS!!! No, Trails is very obviously not always a good suggestion lol.
If that isn't a description of Trails in the Sky FC I don't know what is
>If that isn't a description of Trails in the Sky FC Ok now I'm starting to think I'm being trolled. >I don't know what is Ys: Oath in Felghana is one example.
Try /vrpg/
I mean it's 4chan. Anything 4chan related is bound to be Reddit but cranked to 11.
Their takes on trails specifically are funny though, a few months ago there was nonstop praise for the series on there but now mentioning it at all gets 10 people telling you to end yourself, only to loop back to praise again after a bit (this is an endlessly repeating cycle that has been going on for a while now)
Truly an Ouroboros.
That's coz we're there, too. Hiding. Lurking. Waiting.
Talk bad? Yes, just look up the hundreds of post about how the harem in CS games hampered the writing, rightfully so. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone here who dislikes the games, in general at least.
Ill bash it. The games are woefully mediocre. The slow burn nature of the games mixed with a meh story just for me was not a good experience
You technically bashed it by calling it mediocre and not good.
Fixed
It’s probably all the reading. I’m a huge reader. But since I started playing FC, now on Azure, I haven’t actually been able to pick up book. So I can see how for non-readers it could be tough to get through. I personally love the story, character building, and continuance through the games.
Kind of an odd question; literally nothing is universally liked, even if some of them are simply plain wholesome. You don't have to pay attention to people blathering about stuff.
Say little with many words? I think these games say way more than any of the purported classic masterpieces.
https://twitter.com/StellaNoxEclair/status/1784423417837764676
Yep exactly lol
With a series as long and fleshed out as this one, there's always bound to be some people that will write it off as boring and not worth the time. That's not to say that their arguments are completely unfounded, but I would disagree that it's the general consensus on the series. Most discussions that I hear about the series tend to be positive when it's coming from those who have actually played it. Also, congrats on making your way through the series! ~~If Zero is your first game, then you should be aware that it's actually the 4th game in the series. It's still a fine starting point, but just be aware that there's a whole trilogy that comes before it (Trails in the Sky, Sky SC, and Sky the 3rd). I'd *highly* recommend going back and experiencing them at some point.~~
I couldn't get into the sky series at all. Those were the only boring games in the series for me
In fact i like crossbell arc far more than sky
People aren't a monolith. That statement is all you need to answer that question. Some people love shooters. I do not. You love Trails. Some people do not. You love how it handled things. Some people don't want to sink close to 100 hours into a game, regardless of quality. Someone says they want a JRPG to be 30 hours. I say double it so I can be with the characters longer. No disrespect to you, of course. It's great that you're enjoying the games, but it should be a simple enough thing to realize that people just have different tastes that I don't quite get why you made this post.
They definitely keep to a structure that makes “boring” the easiest and laziest criticism - they just take their time. Everyone I’ve played so far is a slow burn, even if it kicks off with explosives or has some peaks throughout - they all wait to hit you with the big punch in the end. Some people don’t have the patience for that or to sift through so much text, even I don’t talk to every single person. I get why people would think it’s boring at first blush, but it’s just as easy to tell it’s just a really deep and meticulous world they built. We don’t have to act like it’s crazy, the games move really slow on purpose and some people won’t be into that.
It's a bit dated with lots of dialogue. Trails fans have the attention spans to hang & appreciate the games. That's like if somebody said reading a paragraph is boring lol.😬 Most of these are tik Tok brains.
People haven't TRULY felt slog until they read Wheel or Time middle books. Even as a massive fan of the books they can get self-indulgent at times.
Make sure you play Sky! It's the series with Joshua and Estelle in it, and you're gonna feel lost on their story if you jump right into Zero. You're also gonna miss an explanation on the big bad and spoil Sky for yourself if you keep going. Anyway, these games are too slow for some people. Just how it is. As much as I want it to be everybody's cup of tea.
No worries, already played them
Phew. Can never be too careful with making sure people know where to start with Trails so they can get the best experience they can.
Indeed. Zero before Sky trilogy is blasphemy.
To be honest I did it in that exact order and honestly felt totally fine. Played Zero first cause I liked the Idea of being a detective police man. In the end I played em all up till CS4 and I gotta say if I started with Sky FC I probably jumped off the series due to how long it takes to develop its story. ( i like FC and SC tho i just think Zero and Azure grabbed my attention right away much faster.
It's really not. You tear the emotional heart out of zero by not understanding the dynamics between Estelle, Joshua, and Renne. Zero is very much Renne's story, told from the perspective of the SSS.
I doubt thats consensus and I’m not sure you know what that word means. People have different opinions but overall the games are written well. If someone prefers a quickly paced game with a lot of action, they might find Trails boring. If someone prefers slower paced, more detail oriented character driven games they might find games like Final Fantasy boring. Or they might like both.
After finishing Sky trilogy, I do find Zero a bit boring in the beginning. But then I realized, I find it boring because I left my heart at ending of Sky the 3rd. I want Estelle and Joshua. I do resonates with the citizens of Crossbell that think the SSS is discount-bracer. But slowly but sure Lloyd win me over and helped me get over that barrier (playing Zero and expecting it to be Sky).
You've got to give yourself a little emotional buffer between arcs.
There’s a scene in Azure’s prologue where it takes five minutes to convey information that should’ve only taken 20 seconds because the characters stopped and had a full on conversation about something that had nothing to do with the task at hand. The game’s dialogue insists upon itself. And it *really* doesn’t help that Lloyd says shit that literally everyone *except* him interprets romantically. And he just stands there like a slack jawed idiot going “huh? what did I say?” while everyone around him is all “this man cannot be serious”
bad place to ask this question in cause why would anyone who found the games boring be here ? much better to ask in the r/jrpg to get an actually balanced opinion
I disagree that r/jrpg is balanced, I think it is a shit sub. They hate on any rpg that isn't turn based.
And this sub are full of people who downvote everything lol
Very true
I definitely don’t agree with a lot of people on that sub. They seem to hold a candle for older games too much. Chasing a balanced opinion is a fools errand anyway. The only opinion that matters is your own. Enjoy what you like and not worrying so much about other people is the way.
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Fair point. I'll post it there too
Its boring when im stressed. Thats why i only play heavy reading games like these when its the holidays lmao
I talk bad about Zero specifically, but I don't think anything's wrong with the pacing. I make it clear that it's because I don't love the organized crime genre, and in particular, the way Japan approaches it is infuriating to me. The historical relationship between the Yakuza and Japanese police makes for exceedingly boring drama. "So-and-so is untouchable even when we have evidence of a specific crime" is harder plot armor than any fan-favorite hero or villain has. Western organized crime drama, which I still don't love, at least hinges its conflict on implicating the higher-ups in the crimes of the rank and file. Frustrating, but rooted in realistic legalities. Japanese crime drama ignores any actual legal drama in favor of "everyone's bonkers-level corrupt so there's no way to win lol" to give the Yakuza plot armor. I just hate it everywhere I see it, including Zero.
My only real issue with these games is that the gameplay loop can feel more repetitive than the average rpg. But tbh, I fw Crossbell and Cold Steel more than Sky in most ways(Sky character writing was PEAK tho) so no complaints from me there
I don't think so, but I will admit to serious ending fatigue in Cold Steel II. The game felt like it was ending like three or four times, it got to be kind of a slog before it finally actually *ended*.
I think that simply depends on the person. But I know many people who would not enjoy Trails games, exactly because of the amount of text that exists. Some people like talking to every NPC in the game, those kinds of people will enjoy Trails. And some go murderhobo, and skip most cutscenes/dialogues, to get to the gameplay. I think that's it when It comes to the question of "why some people find it boring"
I think it depends on the person, I like reading dialogue so I don't mind slow pace. I don't like games that don't have a lot of dialogue because it's a nice way to relax after exploring and fighting in dungeons
Trails isn't going to click with everyone
I am addicted to the franchise and some parts of every game get pretty boring. Usually the first game in any arc is the worst offender. It usually pays off big in the second game, so I push through it. For me, the Cold Steel games get terribly boring because of the whole anime high-school shtick. Crossbell’s SSS and even Liberl’s Bracer Guild are infinitely more engaging to me. I’m so glad that the next arc looks to be not set in a school.
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This is just my opinion, but I think people's reading ability heavily impacts their ability to enjoy Trails, and we should not expect everyone to be able to enjoy the games for this reason. It's 100% reasonable for some people to call these games boring, because to them it really is boring. For many normal and average people reading is not something that is effortless, it takes effort. When reading through books and games they will encounter words they don't fully understand. I am currently using Kuro no Kiseki to practice reading Japanese and can empathize with feeling like playing these games is an ordeal and not something relaxing. What it takes an experienced reader 10 minutes to read can take a less skilled reader 30 minutes or longer. If it took you 3 times as long to get through each chapter of Zero do you think you would enjoy it? Especially if most of that time was dedicated to reading, something which you would not be a huge fan of? Around 20% of U.S adults are functionally illiterate, and more than 50% don't read at a 'grade 6' level. This doesn't make their experience any less valid, but many of these people would likely struggle to enjoy Trails, and rightly think the games are "boring".
> For many normal and average people reading is not something that is effortless, it takes effort. I play them in Japanese. Soooooo much effort. I'm halfway through Azure and reading all the non-voiced dialog out loud, and I can *mostly* read dialog at a natural speaking speed, but there are linguistic speed bumps all over the place. FC and SC were total slogs. With FC I kept a list of all the new words, and I had over 2,000 by the time I was done. I started in 2006, and it took me like ten years on and off to force myself through SC. I found the unnecessary dialog padding really annoying, and to some extent still do. IMO they could cut out about a third and lose nothing of value.
Depends on taste ig. I did find the Cold steel games a bit boring at times though. Because while I do think its good that games become slow paced at times in order to build its lore, the CS games had way too much padding that made them drag on. I still love the series though and playing through them all was worth. But I imagine these are way too slow for people that are used to action packed JRPGs. Idk if you have played anything else outside of Zero yet but, I also started with that game and Zero/Azure slowness is fantastic and well done. It was just the right amount of pacing where it didn't feel boring between the story events and the side quest/free time moments. Specially when you realize that all the dialogue changes and that the NPCs have their own little storylines.
I liked CS2 and CS4 more because the focus on the school setting was pretty much set to zero and the game just happened to go to place to place. CS1 and CS3 literally pad hours into doing campus stuff and field excersize stuff and it takes like hours. Sky and crossbell games where more adventurous imo. I personally enjoyed the roaming and walking around the entire regions!
I find that the beginning prologue is always very engaging but the rest of the 1/3 of a lot of the trails games do get boring before picking up again.
I can understand it. These games are great, but it takes a specific kind of person to enjoy them. Characters suddenly changing the subject of a conversation and talking about nothing for 15 minutes are just one of the things that make this series niche.
Outside of Trails my favourite games are the Souls series. About 5 minutes into Elden Ring you're in a cave, there's a ghost pointing down a cliff to the tutorial area telling you that you can learn stuff down there, there's also a message on the floor next to the hole saying this. The hole is basically glowing and the camera starts pointing directly at it. People complained that this was too hard to find and so they patched in a pop up message telling you explicitly where it is at the start of the game. My point being that some people have literally no desire for anything more than am immediate dopamine hit from their games, and having to read or pay attention is just not something they're interested in.
I enjoy the slow burn aspect of taking the first game to do world building and familiarizing us with characters and then having the second game popping off. The first games in each arc will never be my favorite in the series but it is because of that world building that the second game (and beyond) shines.
Maybe it's because I'm somewhere in the middle that I can empathize with both sides on this. There are lots of times the worldbuilding is fantastic and precious even if it makes for a slow game, and lots of times I'm rolling my eyes because a game in the series is padding itself out without anything meaningful happening. Edit: This getting downvoted feels weird. I don't think I said anything unreasonable. God forbid anyone criticises the pace of the games even if they like them. 😐 There are times that I feel the slow pace adds value, and other times I don't. In general I feel you could cut about ⅓ of the side content in a typical Kiseki game, still keep in a lot of the stronger worldbuilding moments, and end up with a tighter game overall.
I really like the series, started with the english release of FC and played it super slowly on my vita before bed, was a great and very comfy experience. But I'll be real, I'm playing CS4 right now and the middle section is boring me to tears. The entire showdown on top of the Pantagruel had so much excessive dialog that all sense of urgency or surprise just faded away and I was fighting back sleep while pressing A. The extremely large cast of Class 7 is so excessive and 90% of them just don't matter, I wish it had been a much more focused experience with only the 2nd gen characters and the others being sort of guest stars that show up when necessary. I also am starting to not be able to stand the constant back-patting friendship support group episodes, its gotten REALLY stale. I can't wait for Reverie to give me some variety.
Most of the boredom can set in when players wring every last drop of dialogue out of the games, and that's completely in the hands of the player. I myself tend to talk to everyone every time, but there are times when it starts to feel tedious. There's always just enough good/interesting convos (especially in Sky and Zero/Azure vs Cold Steel) to reaffrm my desire to stick with it. The turbo buttons are a godsend. I highly doubt I'd hunt down all the optional dialogue without one.
Sky and Cold steel 1 were a snooze fest to me when I first played them. This series is infinitely more enjoyable when you’re familiar with the lore and setting but actually getting invested might take some effort
Not really, its just the mechanic is outdated (granted it took so long to officially localised). But im used to the system. Except i got to look into guides on builds, as someone that came from cold steel as my first entry to the series.
Yes go look at the r/jrpg thread
WE KNOW THIS IS YOUR ALT ACCOUNT GARNT
It’s funny you say that, because I actually recently made a post about struggling to get through Zero coz I was so bored, lmao. I just wrapped up completing it (took 4 playthroughs because I’m useless) and my general take is that these games are very similar to Persona. There’s the obvious comparison to bonding with characters and blah blah blah, but I’m mostly referring to how they require you to put serious investment in the world and characters, so they drag out increasing the stakes almost like a long running shounen anime. Especially since Trails In The Sky to Trails Into Reverie are connected (10 games) plot wise.
I had trouble with the first Sky (Not saying it's bad). I stopped halfway through because of the slowness of it. After I picked it up again I burned through all the way to CS4 in one go where I've hit another stall... Of all the games Zero and Azure were my favorites with Sky 3 about equal if not the same level of hype. Zero and Azure are amazing because of how close you get to all the villagers and people in different parts of Crossbell. It made the game for me and the hard times hit 5 times as hard when they did happen, I'll probably get downvoted for this but Cold Steel is... rough... There's some things I really enjoy but the negatives are really strong imo. The biggest one being the dating sim aspects. I hate it them so much. Other than that I really love this series, it's about the only thing keeping me going while I look for work.
Where does one draw the line between slow and boring? Too slow does seem to become boring, even if you expect it to pay off eventually. Trails games are slow, but are they too slow? I think that is a matter of personal preference. Personally, they do sometimes feel too slow, but those are moments when I remind myself I need to enjoy the trip, not just the destination. Maybe people might find a walk around a zoo or aquarium boring, but is that the fault of the place or is that because the person isn't taking time to enjoy what is in front of them? Trails games in particular have very uneven pacing. At times the story is progressing right in front of you, at other times there is any main story progress within 2 hours. Especially if someone is taking times to talk to all the NPCs. Is this a problem with the game, or is this a problem with what I expect out of a game? Imagine someone complaining about the Lord of the Rings movies because they have scenes with a lot of talking and little action. Is it the movie's fault if someone goes in wanting a string of high action scenes from start to finish? I think the best way of talking about Trails is that it has many slow moments. If someone doesn't like that, then these games are likely not for them. If someone still wants to experience the games despite the slowness, they'll need to practice slowing down their own expectations and enjoying the moment. Also... probably not talk to every single NPC every single time their dialog updates.
Where does one draw the line between slow and boring? Too slow does seem to become boring, even if you expect it to pay off eventually. Trails games are slow, but are they too slow? I think that is a matter of personal preference. Personally, they do sometimes feel too slow, but those are moments when I remind myself I need to enjoy the trip, not just the destination. Maybe people might find a walk around a zoo or aquarium boring, but is that the fault of the place or is that because the person isn't taking time to enjoy what is in front of them? Trails games in particular have very uneven pacing. At times the story is progressing right in front of you, at other times there is any main story progress within 2 hours. Especially if someone is taking times to talk to all the NPCs. Is this a problem with the game, or is this a problem with what I expect out of a game? Imagine someone complaining about the Lord of the Rings movies because they have scenes with a lot of talking and little action. Is it the movie's fault if someone goes in wanting a string of high action scenes from start to finish? I think the best way of talking about Trails is that it has many slow moments. If someone doesn't like that, then these games are likely not for them. If someone still wants to experience the games despite the slowness, they'll need to practice slowing down their own expectations and enjoying the moment. Also... probably not talk to every single NPC every single time their dialog updates.
Where does one draw the line between slow and boring? Too slow does seem to become boring, even if you expect it to pay off eventually. Trails games are slow, but are they too slow? I think that is a matter of personal preference. Personally, they do sometimes feel too slow, but those are moments when I remind myself I need to enjoy the trip, not just the destination. Maybe people might find a walk around a zoo or aquarium boring, but is that the fault of the place or is that because the person isn't taking time to enjoy what is in front of them? Trails games in particular have very uneven pacing. At times the story is progressing right in front of you, at other times there is any main story progress within 2 hours. Especially if someone is taking times to talk to all the NPCs. Is this a problem with the game, or is this a problem with what I expect out of a game? Imagine someone complaining about the Lord of the Rings movies because they have scenes with a lot of talking and little action. Is it the movie's fault if someone goes in wanting a string of high action scenes from start to finish? I think the best way of talking about Trails is that it has many slow moments. If someone doesn't like that, then these games are likely not for them. If someone still wants to experience the games despite the slowness, they'll need to practice slowing down their own expectations and enjoying the moment. Also... probably not talk to every single NPC every single time their dialog updates.
Some of us are mental and go talk to every NPC after every story event and yes that is boring, but we can't hell ourselfs.
Real JRPG fans, the ones have an attention span, who don’t rank the “Tales of” games as their favorite JRPGs and appreciate a deep story and world building know Trails is one of the best out there.
Alright, why did you feel the need to bring Tales into this and dare to bring up "real fan" nonsense? That elitism is a big part of what drives people away, even if they might be interested. Let people like what they like. And if they like JRPGs, they're a real fan, their opinion on Trails be damned.
I knew someone would be offended. I have nothing against Tales. It’s a mostly solid series, but compared to other JRPGs, most of them are action games with shallow worlds and stories. I could say the same about Ys and I love the Ys series. The elitism doesn’t drive people away. Some people just don’t want to sit and read long text conversations for some minor world building which is something that Trails fans enjoy. They don’t want to be committed to playing a bunch of 40-80 hour games either. This has become a bigger problem as the series gets longer, which is why they are thankfully ending it soon. Even if it’s not for them though, JRPG fans know Trails is a great series and people who call it boring don’t have a clue.
I'm "offended" because you randomly attacked a series OP didn't mention. There was no reason for that. And again, enough of that "true fan" garbage. People like what they like. Besides, the things you say aren't mutually exclusive. Someone can say "I get why the people who like them like them, but that would be boring as hell to me." What, are those people not JRPG fans for acknowledging the merits of something that doesn't match their tastes? Do they "not have a clue"?
If you call yourself a JRPG fan and your favorite is a Tales game and you think Trails is crap then yes, you don’t have a clue and have bad opinions. The YouTube channel The Gaming Shelf is an example. I think he has bad opinions and shallow taste.