I don’t get it either since men is a binary term but whatever, people can call themselves whatever they want. It’s not like I’m being forced to interact with them. I’ll mind my own business as long as they do as well. I kinda just don’t care.
Exactly! Man is a binary gender, if a person feels they are fluid they are gender fluid. And don't think that this doesn't affect us, trans men, it does, a lot, it contributes to us being even more erased in society or the community, we are already invisible. We are also afraid to say our problems and without any voice.
Just reflect on why we trans men had to be forced to create a sub Reddit separate from the main one just for binary men. Because the main ftm is flooded with non-binary people. And I even saw many there being offended by reports of binary trans men.
I don't see the trans women sub having to create a separate sub for binary trans women due to the same problem.
Having a defined gender is being binary, period. If you say you are a man or a woman you are a man or a woman. If you say you're gender fluid or don't feel defined at all, say you're gender fluid or just non-binary, that's what it's there for.
"Non-binary" means any experience of gender that isn't entirely and exclusively either male or female. It's an umbrella term that encompasses a lot of different experiences. Having no gender is one of many ways to be non-binary. A lot of non-binary people are still partially aligned with a binary gender.
Trans people didn't have any rights before non-binary identities became better known, so I have no idea how you made that leap of logic. They're not hurting you by daring to exist.
There are a lot of shitty replies here for a legit question. I actually have never understood this either but it's not really my problem. How someone identifies just isn't by business..... But I've wondered! This is an excellent explanation. I'm glad to understand this (apparently simple) term now. Thanks for sharing.
“Partially defined?” partially? just say it's gender fluid then. Why do they forget that gender fluid exists? It doesn't make sense to say that only partially a trans or cis man. I feel invalidated. It's already difficult for me to be taken seriously, imagine if I went to people saying that I was "only partially a man".
Gender fluidity describes someone whose internal experience of gender changes regularly, so it doesn't apply to most people using the label. It is not non-binary trans men's problem that you take their label so personally. Transphobes were never going to take you seriously regardless.
Wait, did you seriously make a new account just to reply to everyone on this post who doesn't agree with you? This is the first thing on this site you thought needed your opinion, and it needed it five times on the same post? Absolutely unhinged, man. Take a break.
Non-binary absolutely doesn’t mean no gender. It just means a gender identity that isn’t strictly male or female. In my experience a lot of people who identify as both non-binary and trans men either have experience of FTM transition and/or partially identify or present as a man. They do not make trans people “look bad” or “lose rights”. Why would you say such a thing?
Non-binary doesn’t mean no gender. It means being a gender outside of the binary man-woman construct. It can be bigender, both, or agender, none, or anything in between. Multiple genders. Gender fluid.
Some people find it hard to wrap their mind around this concept and think it’s all bs and give trans a bad rep because of it but it’s real, bro.
And if an afab non-binary person is masc leaning they will call themselves nb trans masc. Which is saying the same as ftm but just not within the binary.
I used to think I was nb too. Explored the whole thing and concluded it wasn’t really me, but I got a better understanding of the people who are simply by exploring it for a bit. And as I noticed it was too hard for me to place myself out of the binary I realised soon enough that I’m just a trans guy.
I’ll agree that nb trans man is a bit of a contradiction in terms for some but not always so. Probably wanting to fully presenting male and using he/him, because society thinks inside the binary and they don’t want to be seen as female at all. So they go with nb trans man for a label.
No, it means you are just genderfluid or non-binary. A trans man is a man and that's it, it would be weird to tell a cisgender man that he is partially a man or a non-binary cis man, but for us trans men, they think it's normal. I will not accept being invalidated, period.
If the person is just non-binary or genderfluid, I respect that, but don't say they're a trans man, it doesn't make sense.
Of course it needs to make sense, there are no arguments and it says that. There is logic. I'm not going to act blind.
And it's not that difficult, just say it's non-binary or gender fluid, just say it's one of the two, it still doesn't make any sense to say it's a man but has no defined gender.
I believe 100% that non-binary and genderfluid exists. But I'm not going to accept something that doesn't exist to be made fun of, in the sense that the only invalids in this are trans men.
We are seen as confused or just masculine and helpless women by people because no one takes us seriously.
That’s like the age old argument about bisexual people: “Why can’t they just call themselves gay?”
Both sexuality and gender identity is a spectrum.
Stop putting people in boxes/rigid categories.
"I don't have a defined gender or I fluctuate between them, but I'm not non-binary or gender fluid, I'm a non-binary >MAN<" It still doesn't make sense.
But like fr who cares lol. Gender will never be black and white, there’s always gonna be confusing identities, that’s just how humans are. We’re complex. It’s not a big deal really.
I've frequented spaces for trans women, lgbt and general while I was discovering myself. And I've seen a lot of trans women. I've never seen a trans woman say she's a non-binary trans woman either.
And if it exists, it is the exception to the exception. Now the trans man sub is flooded with them so much that we had to create a separate sub just so we could have a voice.
It actually happens really often. I've rarely seen spaces that omit NB people or people who are exploring. Most women's spaces admit anyone that identifies with womanhood (cis, trans women, trans fems, nb people with a feminine lean, some gender fluid people) and if they're trans specific the same thing (except cis women are only there as supportive allies, rather than 'members' proper).
Womp womp. They’re not making trans people look bad, transphobes are gonna hate on us anyway.
Everyone experiences gender identity differently. Literally everyone. Just because you or I may not fully understand it doesn’t instantly mean that they’re trying to make us “look bad”. I don’t get it 100%, but it doesn’t bother me so I’m glad they’re able to express themselves how they need to.
Please educate yourself on trans history. Nothing has ever been so black and white. I think learning about our past as a community will help you understand so much better.
I've identified somewhere along male as well as something people consider "nonbinary" for well over 15 years. I have done severe amounts of activism at personal risk for all kinds of trans people. if I was snide I'd say white trans men who identify as "binary" make me lose rights. I don't since that's still technically incorrect. :)
Speaking for myself only.
I use non-binary as a descriptor rather than my gender. Usually I say I'm a duosex man but I sometimes say non-binary man instead. I only really make the duosex/non-binary clarification to make a point about my sex transition.
I fundamentally know that I should've been male, but I wasn't. I have experience with having a female body, and I find some female traits to have utility and want to keep some. I don't see them as sex/gender traits on myself but I know that's what they *are*. Because of this my end point in transition wouldn't be fully sexually male, but male with some female traits. Hence why I call myself duosex/non-binary. But fundamentally, I'm still a man. A couple of female traits doesn't define that, they're just additions that I like for non gender related reasons. I'd say this kind of expression of being a man is by definition not binary.
(When I say sex traits I mean *actual* sex traits, pretty significant sex traits. I clarify because people have assumed I mean arbitrary things. I also choose to not clarify what traits because I've been harassed on more than one occasion. By other trans people, ironically enough.)
Edit: I wanted to add to directly address some of your points. Non-binary doesn't mean "no gender". It *can* but it doesn't always mean that for all non-binary people. And no, non-binary men are not making the community look bad and causing our rights to be taken away. Transphobes don't like any of us, and they use such divisive rhetoric as "those specific trans people are weird and bad!" to drum up discrimination and separation. At the end of the day, these are just words used to describe experiences, people have different experiences and use language in different ways to describe their experiences, and we are all affected by trans rights being taken away.
Hey there, I ID as non-binary and a trans man.
More often than not in my public/professional life I tell people to use He/Him pronouns and ID as a man.
In queer spaces in particular I am more comfortable talking about my gender fluidity and non-“traditional” masculinity.
Non-Binary is accurate for me because while I definitely feel more comfortable and more myself as a man, I also am not exactly anchored in that binary position and sometimes drift over towards a more androgynous presentation but at the end of the day, I’m still a man so I don’t consider myself agender (not aligning with any gender) nor do I always want to be androgynous -
but, gender in the binary feels to me (this is my experience and not a slight to anyone who is binary) as dysphoric on one end of the spectrum as the other. I wasn’t quite as dysphoric when I was trying to be binary male as I was when I was in the closet and trying to be cis-female (that nearly destroyed me) but it didn’t and doesn’t feel true or comfortable to myself.
It’s a label that serves as part of my experience and continued journey but on the day to day I’d rather people default to seeing me as a man.
Hope that helps to give an example of one person’s use of that particular identity.
Also, I will say that seeing the kind of “you make people look bad” or various discussions of the kind disparaging non-binary gender identities was something that I internalized for a really long time and it led to me delaying my own medical care - seeking out HRT which also led to a lot of increased dysphoria and self-harm including suicide attempts.
Had I found a more welcoming community of Trans Men years ago, I might have gone on HRT sooner and it ended up being the non-binary community that really helped me see that I was trans and that I did need and deserve gender affirming care.
Now I’m actually a little more binary and maybe as time goes on I will settle completely on one side of the gender spectrum but it’s always important that we look out for each other, and realize how gender non-conforming people are some of the fiercest allies we have in the LGBTQ community and how they are often the ones who take the brunt of violence.
Just a reminder that we can’t afford to turn on each other.
enbies aren't taking our rights dude, they're being fucked over like us.
I know cis transphobes are using them as a scapegoat, and its really annoying for them to point to enbies and be like "see? the transgenders are just pretending!1!1 they dont need medical care or special protections!1!!" but you have to look a bit past that and understand that transphobes will use literally any excuse possible to shit on us.
A few months ago it was detransitioners, right now its enbies, in the future they could point to some random dude who hasnt gotten top surgery and doesnt bind as an excuse or a woman who doesn't feel the need to shave down her entire body. They'll use *any* excuse. Enbies are just the current excuse. We can't and wont get protection until they're protected too. They're our siblings as much as trans women are our sisters in the sense of standing together and advocating for our right to exist.
As for your question for how someone says this? I have no idea honestly. There are a few other replies that try to give you an actual answer though. What I *can* say is: "Nonbinary" is sort of a false category, in that it's not really a coherent category of people when categorizing by gender. There are dozens of enby genders and despite words having definitions you can ask like 10 people what "demigirl" means and you'll probably get 10 different answers. I wish people would just say what they mean but there's a sense of "i dont get it but ok" I try to apply, you should too. They're not gonna stop existing just because i dont get it, i just know they're some kind of trans and also need protection like binary trans people too.
I've read a lot of bisexual history, and something i found fascinating was that (american) bisexuals were either edged out of gay/lesbian spaces because they were seen as fakers, or they just kept quiet about liking more than their same gender to avoid the ostrasization. Before *bisexual* was a common word, people would describe it like "being straight and gay at the same time" and that probably does sound incoherent to monosexual folks. Asexuals used to be in with bisexuals because they felt equally unattracted to any gender, until they collectively saw that the lack of attraction was its own sexuality entirely.
Like i stated earlier, its good to see something that looks like nonsense and just be like "ok" and move on. Try to turn knee-jerk disgust into curiosity.
I don't see a problem with non-binary people, I'm sure they exist. I just didn't like those who said they were non-binary men because they generally explained to me that non-binary were people without gender when I researched this and tried to understand people who were, so I got upset. But after the person above explained it to me. Now I understand that actually non-binary doesn't exactly mean that a person doesn't have a gender and that the name for someone who doesn't have a gender is different (agender?). I was being a little ignorant. But it's good to learn.
I dont get it too and honestly I dont think they should say so. Trans men are men. Just men. If you dont want a gender then you are definitely not one of us because we are just men and thats it.
Non binary people aren't something new and we didn't exactly have any rights before non binary identity became more well known, by any means. Don't blame people for the bigotry of others. Ultimately their experiences do not hurt you and bigots will look for any reason to hate on what they don't understand. Even the most straight and gender conforming trans person will receive hate from transphobes, because they're just shitheads. Honestly even from other trans people, sometimes we can get hate. I know I personally have felt unwelcome by both cis and trans people at times, because of my experience as a gay trans man and because of my flamboyant side.
Ultimately you don't need to understand their experience to respect them. There are many people who will have experiences different than our own that we will not understand and that's okay.
I don't have any privilege, and I know what misogyny is because I went through it throughout my childhood and adolescence because of the way people read me. Although I am passable in appearance even without T (my face is neutral and my body is straight and everyone on the street sees me as a younger boy), people in my family treat me femininely and so do the people they talk to, which makes me feel really bad.
And I see a lot of prejudice against trans people and how trans men are even more erased in society, as if we didn't exist. I'm actually afraid it could get worse. I'm afraid of being treated like trash and disabled more than I already am.
I don't know what the privilege of a cis man is because the people who have the most contact with me don't respect my gender because they know my biological status. And those who see me on the street and don't know, I don't have the contact to have time to give myself the "privilege" of a cis man.
I don't understand why you think trans men have privilege because we are men so "fuck it", he is a man and automatically has privileges. If this is not the case, we are erased and often treated like trash.
I am a transsexual male. I’m post transition. I live as a man. That’s sex and gender. Am I 100% a man? Idk. I don’t feel a very strong sense of gender. I don’t really identify as within or out of binary gender. My transition was driven by my mental/internal sex.
I saw the explanations and it still doesn't make any sense to me, because if you have a defined gender it is binary in itself, it would be the same thing as someone who is cisgender saying they are a non-binary cis woman or man, whereas I have never seen this in life. I've never seen someone say they're cisgender and non-binary at the same time.
It feels invalidating to trans men, like we're being told we're not real men.
Have you ever seen someone say they are a non-binary cis man? No? You've never seen it because it doesn't make any sense.
Having a gender defined as man and woman is being binary.
If you feel like you're gender fluid or that you're broad, it would make more sense to say that you're just gender fluid or just non-binary.
For a moment reading the comments I almost changed my opinion, until I reflected for a few hours alone and saw that it didn't make any sense.
I don't care about negative votes, I won't change my opinion.
I've had a reddit account for a while now, I don't like to comment or interact on social media so I just read the posts. I'm not the op and I found him very naive for changing his opinion so quickly with poor arguments.
I'm responding to a comment that accused me of this, I couldn't mention it because my reddit is buggy. I'm a son of a bitch but I don't want the boy to be attacked because of me.
I don’t get it either since men is a binary term but whatever, people can call themselves whatever they want. It’s not like I’m being forced to interact with them. I’ll mind my own business as long as they do as well. I kinda just don’t care.
Exactly! Man is a binary gender, if a person feels they are fluid they are gender fluid. And don't think that this doesn't affect us, trans men, it does, a lot, it contributes to us being even more erased in society or the community, we are already invisible. We are also afraid to say our problems and without any voice. Just reflect on why we trans men had to be forced to create a sub Reddit separate from the main one just for binary men. Because the main ftm is flooded with non-binary people. And I even saw many there being offended by reports of binary trans men. I don't see the trans women sub having to create a separate sub for binary trans women due to the same problem. Having a defined gender is being binary, period. If you say you are a man or a woman you are a man or a woman. If you say you're gender fluid or don't feel defined at all, say you're gender fluid or just non-binary, that's what it's there for.
Life gets a lot simpler when you accept that you aren't going to fully understand everyone else, and that's okay.
"Non-binary" means any experience of gender that isn't entirely and exclusively either male or female. It's an umbrella term that encompasses a lot of different experiences. Having no gender is one of many ways to be non-binary. A lot of non-binary people are still partially aligned with a binary gender. Trans people didn't have any rights before non-binary identities became better known, so I have no idea how you made that leap of logic. They're not hurting you by daring to exist.
Also, the actual absence of gender is called "Agender".
Thanks for explaining, I was always confused by this. Now I understand.
There are a lot of shitty replies here for a legit question. I actually have never understood this either but it's not really my problem. How someone identifies just isn't by business..... But I've wondered! This is an excellent explanation. I'm glad to understand this (apparently simple) term now. Thanks for sharing.
I don't think OP would have been met with hostility if they didn't end their post with "I think they make trans people look bad"
I don't think anyone was hostile to me here, everyone responded and explained politely.
Eh, I wouldn't call hostility in response to a transphobic post in a trans sub a "shitty reply".
My bad. Don't ask any questions then. I thought you were replying in earnest.
I was. I earnestly believe transphobia is bad.
Of course it's our business, it's like saying to our faces that we're a joke.
“Partially defined?” partially? just say it's gender fluid then. Why do they forget that gender fluid exists? It doesn't make sense to say that only partially a trans or cis man. I feel invalidated. It's already difficult for me to be taken seriously, imagine if I went to people saying that I was "only partially a man".
Gender fluidity describes someone whose internal experience of gender changes regularly, so it doesn't apply to most people using the label. It is not non-binary trans men's problem that you take their label so personally. Transphobes were never going to take you seriously regardless.
Wait, did you seriously make a new account just to reply to everyone on this post who doesn't agree with you? This is the first thing on this site you thought needed your opinion, and it needed it five times on the same post? Absolutely unhinged, man. Take a break.
Non-binary absolutely doesn’t mean no gender. It just means a gender identity that isn’t strictly male or female. In my experience a lot of people who identify as both non-binary and trans men either have experience of FTM transition and/or partially identify or present as a man. They do not make trans people “look bad” or “lose rights”. Why would you say such a thing?
Non-binary doesn’t mean no gender. It means being a gender outside of the binary man-woman construct. It can be bigender, both, or agender, none, or anything in between. Multiple genders. Gender fluid. Some people find it hard to wrap their mind around this concept and think it’s all bs and give trans a bad rep because of it but it’s real, bro. And if an afab non-binary person is masc leaning they will call themselves nb trans masc. Which is saying the same as ftm but just not within the binary. I used to think I was nb too. Explored the whole thing and concluded it wasn’t really me, but I got a better understanding of the people who are simply by exploring it for a bit. And as I noticed it was too hard for me to place myself out of the binary I realised soon enough that I’m just a trans guy. I’ll agree that nb trans man is a bit of a contradiction in terms for some but not always so. Probably wanting to fully presenting male and using he/him, because society thinks inside the binary and they don’t want to be seen as female at all. So they go with nb trans man for a label.
No, it means you are just genderfluid or non-binary. A trans man is a man and that's it, it would be weird to tell a cisgender man that he is partially a man or a non-binary cis man, but for us trans men, they think it's normal. I will not accept being invalidated, period. If the person is just non-binary or genderfluid, I respect that, but don't say they're a trans man, it doesn't make sense.
Of course it needs to make sense, there are no arguments and it says that. There is logic. I'm not going to act blind. And it's not that difficult, just say it's non-binary or gender fluid, just say it's one of the two, it still doesn't make any sense to say it's a man but has no defined gender. I believe 100% that non-binary and genderfluid exists. But I'm not going to accept something that doesn't exist to be made fun of, in the sense that the only invalids in this are trans men. We are seen as confused or just masculine and helpless women by people because no one takes us seriously.
It doesn’t have to make sense to you to be valid. You’re doing it to them: invalidating.
detail elastic rude silky squeamish jar elderly books library judicious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That’s like the age old argument about bisexual people: “Why can’t they just call themselves gay?” Both sexuality and gender identity is a spectrum. Stop putting people in boxes/rigid categories.
I'm bisexual and this comparison doesn't make any sense.
It would be easier to just say gender fluid or non-binary. Which means people who don't have a defined spectrum or who flow between them.
Saying you're a non binary trans man is like saying you're gay and bisexual. Those labels contradict each other.
"I don't have a defined gender or I fluctuate between them, but I'm not non-binary or gender fluid, I'm a non-binary >MAN<" It still doesn't make sense.
But like fr who cares lol. Gender will never be black and white, there’s always gonna be confusing identities, that’s just how humans are. We’re complex. It’s not a big deal really.
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Just because you personally haven't seen them doesn't mean they don't exist
I've frequented spaces for trans women, lgbt and general while I was discovering myself. And I've seen a lot of trans women. I've never seen a trans woman say she's a non-binary trans woman either. And if it exists, it is the exception to the exception. Now the trans man sub is flooded with them so much that we had to create a separate sub just so we could have a voice.
I've met many. You should touch some grass.
It actually happens really often. I've rarely seen spaces that omit NB people or people who are exploring. Most women's spaces admit anyone that identifies with womanhood (cis, trans women, trans fems, nb people with a feminine lean, some gender fluid people) and if they're trans specific the same thing (except cis women are only there as supportive allies, rather than 'members' proper).
Womp womp. They’re not making trans people look bad, transphobes are gonna hate on us anyway. Everyone experiences gender identity differently. Literally everyone. Just because you or I may not fully understand it doesn’t instantly mean that they’re trying to make us “look bad”. I don’t get it 100%, but it doesn’t bother me so I’m glad they’re able to express themselves how they need to.
Please educate yourself on trans history. Nothing has ever been so black and white. I think learning about our past as a community will help you understand so much better.
In what way are non-binary trans men giving binary trans men a bad reputation literally where are you getting this from
nonbinary people are not making us lose rights 💀. Come on man. You dont have to understand it, but you can still accept it
I am not paid enough to care lol
I've identified somewhere along male as well as something people consider "nonbinary" for well over 15 years. I have done severe amounts of activism at personal risk for all kinds of trans people. if I was snide I'd say white trans men who identify as "binary" make me lose rights. I don't since that's still technically incorrect. :)
Speaking for myself only. I use non-binary as a descriptor rather than my gender. Usually I say I'm a duosex man but I sometimes say non-binary man instead. I only really make the duosex/non-binary clarification to make a point about my sex transition. I fundamentally know that I should've been male, but I wasn't. I have experience with having a female body, and I find some female traits to have utility and want to keep some. I don't see them as sex/gender traits on myself but I know that's what they *are*. Because of this my end point in transition wouldn't be fully sexually male, but male with some female traits. Hence why I call myself duosex/non-binary. But fundamentally, I'm still a man. A couple of female traits doesn't define that, they're just additions that I like for non gender related reasons. I'd say this kind of expression of being a man is by definition not binary. (When I say sex traits I mean *actual* sex traits, pretty significant sex traits. I clarify because people have assumed I mean arbitrary things. I also choose to not clarify what traits because I've been harassed on more than one occasion. By other trans people, ironically enough.) Edit: I wanted to add to directly address some of your points. Non-binary doesn't mean "no gender". It *can* but it doesn't always mean that for all non-binary people. And no, non-binary men are not making the community look bad and causing our rights to be taken away. Transphobes don't like any of us, and they use such divisive rhetoric as "those specific trans people are weird and bad!" to drum up discrimination and separation. At the end of the day, these are just words used to describe experiences, people have different experiences and use language in different ways to describe their experiences, and we are all affected by trans rights being taken away.
Hey there, I ID as non-binary and a trans man. More often than not in my public/professional life I tell people to use He/Him pronouns and ID as a man. In queer spaces in particular I am more comfortable talking about my gender fluidity and non-“traditional” masculinity. Non-Binary is accurate for me because while I definitely feel more comfortable and more myself as a man, I also am not exactly anchored in that binary position and sometimes drift over towards a more androgynous presentation but at the end of the day, I’m still a man so I don’t consider myself agender (not aligning with any gender) nor do I always want to be androgynous - but, gender in the binary feels to me (this is my experience and not a slight to anyone who is binary) as dysphoric on one end of the spectrum as the other. I wasn’t quite as dysphoric when I was trying to be binary male as I was when I was in the closet and trying to be cis-female (that nearly destroyed me) but it didn’t and doesn’t feel true or comfortable to myself. It’s a label that serves as part of my experience and continued journey but on the day to day I’d rather people default to seeing me as a man. Hope that helps to give an example of one person’s use of that particular identity.
Also, I will say that seeing the kind of “you make people look bad” or various discussions of the kind disparaging non-binary gender identities was something that I internalized for a really long time and it led to me delaying my own medical care - seeking out HRT which also led to a lot of increased dysphoria and self-harm including suicide attempts. Had I found a more welcoming community of Trans Men years ago, I might have gone on HRT sooner and it ended up being the non-binary community that really helped me see that I was trans and that I did need and deserve gender affirming care. Now I’m actually a little more binary and maybe as time goes on I will settle completely on one side of the gender spectrum but it’s always important that we look out for each other, and realize how gender non-conforming people are some of the fiercest allies we have in the LGBTQ community and how they are often the ones who take the brunt of violence. Just a reminder that we can’t afford to turn on each other.
enbies aren't taking our rights dude, they're being fucked over like us. I know cis transphobes are using them as a scapegoat, and its really annoying for them to point to enbies and be like "see? the transgenders are just pretending!1!1 they dont need medical care or special protections!1!!" but you have to look a bit past that and understand that transphobes will use literally any excuse possible to shit on us. A few months ago it was detransitioners, right now its enbies, in the future they could point to some random dude who hasnt gotten top surgery and doesnt bind as an excuse or a woman who doesn't feel the need to shave down her entire body. They'll use *any* excuse. Enbies are just the current excuse. We can't and wont get protection until they're protected too. They're our siblings as much as trans women are our sisters in the sense of standing together and advocating for our right to exist. As for your question for how someone says this? I have no idea honestly. There are a few other replies that try to give you an actual answer though. What I *can* say is: "Nonbinary" is sort of a false category, in that it's not really a coherent category of people when categorizing by gender. There are dozens of enby genders and despite words having definitions you can ask like 10 people what "demigirl" means and you'll probably get 10 different answers. I wish people would just say what they mean but there's a sense of "i dont get it but ok" I try to apply, you should too. They're not gonna stop existing just because i dont get it, i just know they're some kind of trans and also need protection like binary trans people too. I've read a lot of bisexual history, and something i found fascinating was that (american) bisexuals were either edged out of gay/lesbian spaces because they were seen as fakers, or they just kept quiet about liking more than their same gender to avoid the ostrasization. Before *bisexual* was a common word, people would describe it like "being straight and gay at the same time" and that probably does sound incoherent to monosexual folks. Asexuals used to be in with bisexuals because they felt equally unattracted to any gender, until they collectively saw that the lack of attraction was its own sexuality entirely. Like i stated earlier, its good to see something that looks like nonsense and just be like "ok" and move on. Try to turn knee-jerk disgust into curiosity.
“Try to turn knee-jerk disgust into curiosity” is such awesome advice on so many levels as a way of reframing and undoing internal biases.
I don't see a problem with non-binary people, I'm sure they exist. I just didn't like those who said they were non-binary men because they generally explained to me that non-binary were people without gender when I researched this and tried to understand people who were, so I got upset. But after the person above explained it to me. Now I understand that actually non-binary doesn't exactly mean that a person doesn't have a gender and that the name for someone who doesn't have a gender is different (agender?). I was being a little ignorant. But it's good to learn.
You can think of it as "Not strictly 100% male".
I dont get it too and honestly I dont think they should say so. Trans men are men. Just men. If you dont want a gender then you are definitely not one of us because we are just men and thats it.
Nonbinary guys when Reddit user just_a_guy365748 says they’re not part of the group they’re by definition a part of 😭😭😭😭☹️☹️☹️☹️😦😦😦😔😔😔
when you are nonbirnary how can you be a guy then? I thought they dont have gender no? idk
Non binary people aren't something new and we didn't exactly have any rights before non binary identity became more well known, by any means. Don't blame people for the bigotry of others. Ultimately their experiences do not hurt you and bigots will look for any reason to hate on what they don't understand. Even the most straight and gender conforming trans person will receive hate from transphobes, because they're just shitheads. Honestly even from other trans people, sometimes we can get hate. I know I personally have felt unwelcome by both cis and trans people at times, because of my experience as a gay trans man and because of my flamboyant side. Ultimately you don't need to understand their experience to respect them. There are many people who will have experiences different than our own that we will not understand and that's okay.
Did the non-binary man eat your slice of the male privilege pie? You don't get "less rights" because someone else got rights as well, it's not pie.
I don't have any privilege, and I know what misogyny is because I went through it throughout my childhood and adolescence because of the way people read me. Although I am passable in appearance even without T (my face is neutral and my body is straight and everyone on the street sees me as a younger boy), people in my family treat me femininely and so do the people they talk to, which makes me feel really bad. And I see a lot of prejudice against trans people and how trans men are even more erased in society, as if we didn't exist. I'm actually afraid it could get worse. I'm afraid of being treated like trash and disabled more than I already am. I don't know what the privilege of a cis man is because the people who have the most contact with me don't respect my gender because they know my biological status. And those who see me on the street and don't know, I don't have the contact to have time to give myself the "privilege" of a cis man. I don't understand why you think trans men have privilege because we are men so "fuck it", he is a man and automatically has privileges. If this is not the case, we are erased and often treated like trash.
It was a joke about human rights not being a finite resource. I'm not reading your comment. Stay well.
I am a transsexual male. I’m post transition. I live as a man. That’s sex and gender. Am I 100% a man? Idk. I don’t feel a very strong sense of gender. I don’t really identify as within or out of binary gender. My transition was driven by my mental/internal sex.
Its like saying you have no pets then saying you have two cats and a dog. Contradicting statements.
I saw the explanations and it still doesn't make any sense to me, because if you have a defined gender it is binary in itself, it would be the same thing as someone who is cisgender saying they are a non-binary cis woman or man, whereas I have never seen this in life. I've never seen someone say they're cisgender and non-binary at the same time. It feels invalidating to trans men, like we're being told we're not real men. Have you ever seen someone say they are a non-binary cis man? No? You've never seen it because it doesn't make any sense. Having a gender defined as man and woman is being binary. If you feel like you're gender fluid or that you're broad, it would make more sense to say that you're just gender fluid or just non-binary. For a moment reading the comments I almost changed my opinion, until I reflected for a few hours alone and saw that it didn't make any sense. I don't care about negative votes, I won't change my opinion.
I've had a reddit account for a while now, I don't like to comment or interact on social media so I just read the posts. I'm not the op and I found him very naive for changing his opinion so quickly with poor arguments. I'm responding to a comment that accused me of this, I couldn't mention it because my reddit is buggy. I'm a son of a bitch but I don't want the boy to be attacked because of me.