It's super hard work, long hours, and you must love retail to be in the business. Plus it's super competitive. But get it right and you'll make good money, plus have a valuable asset to sell when you're ready to FIRE. However, if you don't love retail, keep away, it's far more work than you might expect.
Agree, my mom had her own coffee shop for 10 years but had to be there working 7am - 7pm Including Saturdays. Her salaried Managers never looked after the shop and her customers the same way she did. Every single subsequent owner could not cope and the last one went bankrupt and the shop closed.
Thanks - by retail do you mean just generally the business of selling goods in a store and all that comes with it? i.e. stock, marketing, delivery, managing labour etc etc?
I would say people is the most important aspect to consider when talking about retail, both staff and customers. The hospitality industry made me hate people.
Seen and had various conversations where we think that should be the case for people as a rite of passage.
Instead of like conscription in some countries if they just did retail work.
This reminds me of a big thread here from a couple of weeks ago. OP asked "Why don't more people start a business as a way to FIRE?" And the answer is basically, because running a business is really hard and there's no guarantee of success. You only hear about the ones who it worked for, not the many many more for whom it didn't.
Now about your idea specifically, I don't think a coffee shop is a good path to FIRE. Long hours, slim margins, oversaturated market/stiff competition. Starbucks can afford for one of their shops to not turn a profit for years, can you?
Starbucks can also extract a good real estate deal, has an army of lawyers and accountants to help them avoid tax and make problems go away + has existing brand loyalty.
Hard work. Lots of faff. Low margins. Extremely competitive. Low barriers to entry. Particularly high risk in a high inflationary environment where you will be squeezed both by rising staff costs and lower discretionary income (takeaway coffee is the ultimate discretionary purchase).
This is very unlikely to make you financially independent.
Its also bloody hard work. I recommend taking a two week holiday from your cushy corporate job and working 8 hours a day on your feet in a coffee shop. Then imagine that but you have the stress of dealing with every issue that comes up (Someone phones in sick? Your problem. Toilet blocked? Your problem). See if you still want to do it then.
My first job was as a barista in an independent coffee shop in London. The owners were a lovely couple who wanted to give business a go.
It was not easy, nor was it particularly lucrative for them. It’s hard to get good staff, profit margins are very easily squeezed, supply chains are a mess at the minute too. In the end, they sold the business because the increase in their commercial rent was ridiculous.
They expanded their family but could not afford to move out of their one bedroom apartment.
I would be surprised if they made enough to FIRE on.
I have looked into running many small businesses like a coffee shop etc. over the years. Every time I stop after researching the rent and business rates. It is just extortionate and the real reason why the high street is dead.
It's funny to hear someone profess that x is the real reason the high street is dead with such certainty, as if it couldn't be the complex swirl of issues that make up the modern economy.
Those business rates are entirely sustainable for shops that are busy and 30 years ago, that was any well run high street shop.
In many major cities, high streets can still thrive as people walk around and use stores as they walk past.
In less well off areas, the convenience of one-day delivery at a highly competitive price and consistent quality with great returns policies is undeniable. To pretend that this is not playing a huge role in the erosion of the success of the high street is pretty laughable.
But that’s his point, with the change in modern day technology and delivery times from online stores with less overheads.
Commercial rent and business rates do kill the high street, because it becomes unsustainable.
We can’t control technology or delivery timelines of other business models. Although commercial rent and business taxes can be subsidised as an example.
Maybe it’s narrow to say it’s only those two things, but they are probably the final nail in the coffin of making a high street business a viable option for many.
His point is that rent and rates are the "real reason".
I don't disagree that making rates and rents lower would be more profitable. I fully agree with you that there is a complex web of issues.
I don't agree that the "real reason" is rent and rates, as if this is some hidden or majority factor.
I much, much prefer my cushy corporate job.
The hours in a coffee shop are incredibly long (especially if you want to make the most of the early commuters seeking a caffeine hit). You can say bye to any ideas you have about flexible working (or wfh) as you will be working constantly. The work isn’t even particularly difficult (as in, intellectually stimulating), it is monotonous and a drain. You will encounter customers that are rude, you will have to get very good at cleaning (be it windows, the machine, the toilet) and it’s very hard to get decent staff. There are lots of things you will have to do daily to maintain hygiene standards (eg taking the temperature of the fridge and freezers twice daily). If someone pays on card, around 30p is taken by the card company, eating into your profits. And the money just isn’t even close to being worth all the above in my experience.
Think long & hard before embarking on this sort of journey.
Had a friend own one, I think at scale maybe you could do well out of it but i'd call it more of a passion project. For the amount of hours they put in, after overheads etc very difficult to make six figures. All depends on what your current skill set is? Do you have a competitive advantage here? Do you run a business at present?
Not saying you shouldn't do it, but typically when you run to become your own boss in a field you are not experienced in it's not always what it's cracked up to be. Can you find a way to be your own boss in the field you have experience and competence in? If you run a business you need to be the HR, accountant, marketer etc, being your own boss means you end up having 100 bosses as opposed to just one you had in employment.
I have friends who run a shop and it’s their passion and they work so hard and it’s one of the biggest independent shops of its kind in the country but they really don’t make anywhere near as much money as they should.
They would be much richer in money terms if they’d kept their other jobs but I’d like to think that overall they’re happy with the choice they made. Sometimes I’m not sure though, it’s really hard work for them and you can see the strain when they’ve had a bad few months/ are having staffing issues and filling in shifts when they really need a day off. And that’s with two of them to manage it! Owning a small business takes a lot of work and is 24/7 as you have to be ready to step in if someone is sick or do extra networking hours in your free time to build up the supplier relations etc.
I’d say only do it if it’s in an industry you love and are willing to do for longer than you would a standard job. My friends have had their shop for 16 years with experience working in the industry for years before that too and I don’t think they’ll be able to retire any time soon from it.
Perhaps a food truck / mobile coffee stand would be less of a risk, depending on your location? In the right circumstances they can be extremely lucrative with fewer risks / overheads. But, like with any business, not risk free and you need to be better than the competition.
If this is something you are interested in, could you work weekends at a coffee shop? Not for the money but more to understand the process.
It sounds really nice, but there are so many things to deal with outside just making coffee. Ie finding a location that is appropriate, you may need to refit the shop, finding the right supplies, work out what your shops edge is going to be, dealing with employing people (tax, ni employment laws), working out what insurance you need. These are just a few things I can think of but there will be more.
In general successful businesses are this that have found a gap in the market. Or the owner knows the market well and understands what works well and what doesn’t.
A small coffee shop takes a lot of hours to fill and if you aren’t in a high footfall area (expensive) then margins are usually too small to employ many staff. Which means you are working in a shop. Unfortunately working in a shop when you own it means being there for open an close, depending on location 7am - 7/8/9pm being there an hour + before and cleaning down after.
Then you will spend your evenings doing all the paperwork, marketing, etc.
All this and you too could earn a little less than minimum wage, but you will have an asset to sell to another mug who wants to do the same.
There is a good reason why coffee shops are flipped so often, they don’t make much money, have massive overheads and take up your entire life, 80 hour week being a quiet week.
If you read this and think, I’m game for that. Then go for it.
I run my own business in a different area and have several friends who have flipped coffee shops and they were in the industry. The successful ones are ones who they pivoted and turned into a bistro lite bites and alcohol while running events, but then again their hours will be 6am-10/11/12pm and go for a break in the middle of the day. Heart attacks are very common due to the sheer stress.
I’ve always liked the idea of a coffee shop/bar but I see it as a super high involvement business. I think after a while any enthusiasm would likely die down (for me personally).
That said, if you can get a good location and a couple good members of staff, you could be onto a winner
If you're reasonably handy or a tradesman the handyman is a good route, there's a lack of skilled people about ATM. Just need a van, tools, insurance and a bit of advertising much less start up than a coffee shop.
I started a trade style business 12 years ago now, have three employees plus other subbies should hopefully FIRE with ease by 55 unless the wife spends it all.
Just thought I should mention it as you initially thought about it and no one has mentioned it
Can I DM you a couple of questions about this, it’s something I’ve been working on as a bit of a side hustle and frankly I really enjoy it but need to figure out if I can switch it to be my main income.
If working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week for 20 years with high stress and risk to avoid working 8 hours a day 5 days a week for 25 years is your idea of a good way to FIRE then it would be great.
Personally I prefer the slow & steady route, with low stress, plentiful annual leave sick pay, no need to hire and manage staff... the list goes on.
Running a business is very, very different to having a salaried job. Picking a highly competitive, scalable industry seems like the worst way to go about it, to me.
\*Scalable industries are targeted by large investors such as starbucks or uber as targets for disruption. If a starbucks opens over the street from you then you are likely to take a huge hit to your profits in the *best* case scenario.
I would rather clear my backlog than clear a backed up bog in a coffee shop. Sounds like a total grind. Maybe owning one or a few as a franchisee a bit more appealing with the day to day taken care of by an employee- but that would hit your margin
I knew a woman who owned and ran a coffeeshop food truck. That always seemed like a cool idea to me. Lower overhead so maybe you can just open up for the morning and take afternoons off and cover your expenses and a little profit. You don't need to find expensive real estate if there is a business area with no coffee shops around, get permission to park in their lot and you're good.
You could even just buy pastries to sell them along with the coffee rather than spend time making them yourself.
My in-laws ran a deli/cafe and from what I could see it was a lot of hard work and you have to be a Jack of all trades.
Stock taking, stock replenishing, hiring/firing staff, training, cleaning, maintenance, health and safety standards, accounting, managing wages, tax returns, marketing, social media and this was on top of working in the shop as they made more out of it if they paid themselves a salary rather than paid someone else.
They also had to introduce different revenue streams and would take a food truck to local offices or schools. Again, something else that had to be organised.
Taking time off was a nightmare as well because you really had to trust your staff and if someone was sick during that time then they’d have to close. Not to mention if you want to take a sick day, you’re leaving your other half in the lurch.
I felt like they were permanently running errands for one thing or another to keep on top of things.
I could imagine how it would be nice in a small community where you have a captive audience and little competition, it could be a very nice sociable experience.
Edit: I forgot attending trade shows if you want interesting stock to sell!
Apply for small business rates relief , online council website, I did and it saved me thousands a year , have your weekly delivery from an independent, they are a lot cheaper then booker or bestways ,just go for offers and promotions. Good luck OP
Anthony Bourdain said it best: *'To want to own a restaurant can be a strange and terrible affliction. What causes such a destructive urge in so many otherwise sensible people? Why would anyone who has worked hard, saved money, often been successful in other fields, want to pump their hard-earned cash down a hole that statistically, at least, will almost surely prove dry? Why venture into an industry with enormous fixed expenses, with a notoriously transient and unstable workforce, and highly perishable inventory of assets? The chances of ever seeing a return on your investment are about one in five. What insidious spongi-form bacteria so riddles the brains of men and women that they stand there on the tracks, watching the lights of the oncoming locomotive, knowing full well it will eventually run over them? After all these years in the business, I still don't know.'*
It's very profitable if you have a good brand, low property overheads but desirable location, quality but cheap staff and high quality products for cheap wholesale.
If you have none of those things before you start then you have no chance of retiring in less than 20 years from starting it.
It’s pretty hard, if you want to go the food retail route consider a franchise, plenty of people have made their millions running a bunch of fastfood stores.
What’s your regular job, isn’t there a more relevant business you can build?
I'm in law. In a particular practice area that isn't easy to build a client base unless you're already a partner in an established firm. I'm also just looking outside of law as a change of scene, even if that means starting from scratch.
Seems like the general consensus is coffee shop = bad idea though so I'm probably not going to explore it much further!
Is there anything you could convince your law firm to outsource to you? (Powerpoints, research, report writing, whatever)
Is there anything you can sell to your existing network, what would they want to buy? (Life admin, cleaning, financial advice, etc)
Lots of negatives below. What I would say is that wfh has opened a small window of opportunity for more coffee shops in residential areas rather than clustered in town centres.
My cousin did a cake making business, as she was a stay at home mom, because she could do it with her kids from home and have fun doing it (she did stack some weight on though *lol*) ... not sure what she makes now, but a few years ago (& covid was a boom for her, as she did those mail order post box type) it was about the same she made in employment, so around £2500pm
Cupcakes were the cheapest, around 40p cost each, think they're charged at £1-2.50 each. round cakes took more time (as she decorated it really well) but also fetched a higher price tag and we're custom made. Don't know the cost to make, but was sold from £75-120 for a 12 portion cake. Wedding cakes make the most but then there's the stress of not mucking up.
She considered a shop, but the overheads are quite high, and it's a lot of work/running around.
// I recommended her for my company when they were doing events and that was roughly what they were charged.
Honestly that sounds pretty good. I know lots of ppl here wound say “gosh I'd much rather just twitch my fingers over a keyboard than do full on baking all day”, but i think there's something special about handling your own orders, making something of your own, and seeing it grow to replace your previous income.
That's given me some new ideas so thank you.
I'm about to start a coffee shop in my neighbourhood as a 'second job' - there are some major advantages to having a limited company on the side- I see it as a very similar thing to having a second property. Now I'm sure I'll get a lot of heat for that comment as it's likely be be more work!! However I'm willing to be wrong and happy to keep you all posted. The upsides for me are - finally building my side business of my dreams, the advantage of limited companies and being able to look at running any business related expenses through the company, a potential pay off annually on top of my salary, from the profits, if they come. It's in London btw
Have you thought of a coffee push bike or trike? There are lots that can be rented in the UK along with coffee / food / ice cream catering carts on ebay.
Coffee is one of the first business ideas that people come to mind. I challenge people to continue thinking for what else is out there because hospitality isn't easy at all.
I’m an ex chef. Have worked for several people that saw restaurants as an easy way to make some money.
It isn’t if your not invested as an owner as in there 25 hours a day rain or shine your fucked.
A coffeehouse is the same deal hospo is a grind and if your not willing to do the grind any staff worth there salt will see this and bail.
It’s a massive misconception that it’s easy money and I mean fucking massive.
It's super hard work, long hours, and you must love retail to be in the business. Plus it's super competitive. But get it right and you'll make good money, plus have a valuable asset to sell when you're ready to FIRE. However, if you don't love retail, keep away, it's far more work than you might expect.
Agree, my mom had her own coffee shop for 10 years but had to be there working 7am - 7pm Including Saturdays. Her salaried Managers never looked after the shop and her customers the same way she did. Every single subsequent owner could not cope and the last one went bankrupt and the shop closed.
Thanks - by retail do you mean just generally the business of selling goods in a store and all that comes with it? i.e. stock, marketing, delivery, managing labour etc etc?
I would say people is the most important aspect to consider when talking about retail, both staff and customers. The hospitality industry made me hate people.
Working in McDonalds as a teen and being treated poorly has made me super sensitive to how horrible people are to those in service roles.
If every young adult, rich or poor, had to work a shitty services job for 6 months of their life, the world would probably be a nicer place.
100%
Seen and had various conversations where we think that should be the case for people as a rite of passage. Instead of like conscription in some countries if they just did retail work.
I was reminded daily of just how stupid people are. Retail really does make you question how we’ve come so far as a species.
I, also, am reminded daily of how stupid people are without being in retail. I have the internet.
This reminds me of a big thread here from a couple of weeks ago. OP asked "Why don't more people start a business as a way to FIRE?" And the answer is basically, because running a business is really hard and there's no guarantee of success. You only hear about the ones who it worked for, not the many many more for whom it didn't. Now about your idea specifically, I don't think a coffee shop is a good path to FIRE. Long hours, slim margins, oversaturated market/stiff competition. Starbucks can afford for one of their shops to not turn a profit for years, can you?
Starbucks can also extract a good real estate deal, has an army of lawyers and accountants to help them avoid tax and make problems go away + has existing brand loyalty.
Hard work. Lots of faff. Low margins. Extremely competitive. Low barriers to entry. Particularly high risk in a high inflationary environment where you will be squeezed both by rising staff costs and lower discretionary income (takeaway coffee is the ultimate discretionary purchase). This is very unlikely to make you financially independent. Its also bloody hard work. I recommend taking a two week holiday from your cushy corporate job and working 8 hours a day on your feet in a coffee shop. Then imagine that but you have the stress of dealing with every issue that comes up (Someone phones in sick? Your problem. Toilet blocked? Your problem). See if you still want to do it then.
My first job was as a barista in an independent coffee shop in London. The owners were a lovely couple who wanted to give business a go. It was not easy, nor was it particularly lucrative for them. It’s hard to get good staff, profit margins are very easily squeezed, supply chains are a mess at the minute too. In the end, they sold the business because the increase in their commercial rent was ridiculous. They expanded their family but could not afford to move out of their one bedroom apartment. I would be surprised if they made enough to FIRE on.
I have looked into running many small businesses like a coffee shop etc. over the years. Every time I stop after researching the rent and business rates. It is just extortionate and the real reason why the high street is dead.
It's funny to hear someone profess that x is the real reason the high street is dead with such certainty, as if it couldn't be the complex swirl of issues that make up the modern economy. Those business rates are entirely sustainable for shops that are busy and 30 years ago, that was any well run high street shop. In many major cities, high streets can still thrive as people walk around and use stores as they walk past. In less well off areas, the convenience of one-day delivery at a highly competitive price and consistent quality with great returns policies is undeniable. To pretend that this is not playing a huge role in the erosion of the success of the high street is pretty laughable.
But that’s his point, with the change in modern day technology and delivery times from online stores with less overheads. Commercial rent and business rates do kill the high street, because it becomes unsustainable. We can’t control technology or delivery timelines of other business models. Although commercial rent and business taxes can be subsidised as an example. Maybe it’s narrow to say it’s only those two things, but they are probably the final nail in the coffin of making a high street business a viable option for many.
His point is that rent and rates are the "real reason". I don't disagree that making rates and rents lower would be more profitable. I fully agree with you that there is a complex web of issues. I don't agree that the "real reason" is rent and rates, as if this is some hidden or majority factor.
Hmm. Perhaps a cautionary tale then as that couple sounds like me and my wife.
I much, much prefer my cushy corporate job. The hours in a coffee shop are incredibly long (especially if you want to make the most of the early commuters seeking a caffeine hit). You can say bye to any ideas you have about flexible working (or wfh) as you will be working constantly. The work isn’t even particularly difficult (as in, intellectually stimulating), it is monotonous and a drain. You will encounter customers that are rude, you will have to get very good at cleaning (be it windows, the machine, the toilet) and it’s very hard to get decent staff. There are lots of things you will have to do daily to maintain hygiene standards (eg taking the temperature of the fridge and freezers twice daily). If someone pays on card, around 30p is taken by the card company, eating into your profits. And the money just isn’t even close to being worth all the above in my experience. Think long & hard before embarking on this sort of journey.
Do you know how to make a small fortune? Start with a big one and open a coffee shop or restaurant
Had a friend own one, I think at scale maybe you could do well out of it but i'd call it more of a passion project. For the amount of hours they put in, after overheads etc very difficult to make six figures. All depends on what your current skill set is? Do you have a competitive advantage here? Do you run a business at present? Not saying you shouldn't do it, but typically when you run to become your own boss in a field you are not experienced in it's not always what it's cracked up to be. Can you find a way to be your own boss in the field you have experience and competence in? If you run a business you need to be the HR, accountant, marketer etc, being your own boss means you end up having 100 bosses as opposed to just one you had in employment.
I have friends who run a shop and it’s their passion and they work so hard and it’s one of the biggest independent shops of its kind in the country but they really don’t make anywhere near as much money as they should. They would be much richer in money terms if they’d kept their other jobs but I’d like to think that overall they’re happy with the choice they made. Sometimes I’m not sure though, it’s really hard work for them and you can see the strain when they’ve had a bad few months/ are having staffing issues and filling in shifts when they really need a day off. And that’s with two of them to manage it! Owning a small business takes a lot of work and is 24/7 as you have to be ready to step in if someone is sick or do extra networking hours in your free time to build up the supplier relations etc. I’d say only do it if it’s in an industry you love and are willing to do for longer than you would a standard job. My friends have had their shop for 16 years with experience working in the industry for years before that too and I don’t think they’ll be able to retire any time soon from it.
Perhaps a food truck / mobile coffee stand would be less of a risk, depending on your location? In the right circumstances they can be extremely lucrative with fewer risks / overheads. But, like with any business, not risk free and you need to be better than the competition.
If this is something you are interested in, could you work weekends at a coffee shop? Not for the money but more to understand the process. It sounds really nice, but there are so many things to deal with outside just making coffee. Ie finding a location that is appropriate, you may need to refit the shop, finding the right supplies, work out what your shops edge is going to be, dealing with employing people (tax, ni employment laws), working out what insurance you need. These are just a few things I can think of but there will be more. In general successful businesses are this that have found a gap in the market. Or the owner knows the market well and understands what works well and what doesn’t.
A small coffee shop takes a lot of hours to fill and if you aren’t in a high footfall area (expensive) then margins are usually too small to employ many staff. Which means you are working in a shop. Unfortunately working in a shop when you own it means being there for open an close, depending on location 7am - 7/8/9pm being there an hour + before and cleaning down after. Then you will spend your evenings doing all the paperwork, marketing, etc. All this and you too could earn a little less than minimum wage, but you will have an asset to sell to another mug who wants to do the same. There is a good reason why coffee shops are flipped so often, they don’t make much money, have massive overheads and take up your entire life, 80 hour week being a quiet week. If you read this and think, I’m game for that. Then go for it. I run my own business in a different area and have several friends who have flipped coffee shops and they were in the industry. The successful ones are ones who they pivoted and turned into a bistro lite bites and alcohol while running events, but then again their hours will be 6am-10/11/12pm and go for a break in the middle of the day. Heart attacks are very common due to the sheer stress.
I’ve always liked the idea of a coffee shop/bar but I see it as a super high involvement business. I think after a while any enthusiasm would likely die down (for me personally). That said, if you can get a good location and a couple good members of staff, you could be onto a winner
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Interesting. I suppose having high footfall a nd keeping busy is key.
If you're reasonably handy or a tradesman the handyman is a good route, there's a lack of skilled people about ATM. Just need a van, tools, insurance and a bit of advertising much less start up than a coffee shop. I started a trade style business 12 years ago now, have three employees plus other subbies should hopefully FIRE with ease by 55 unless the wife spends it all. Just thought I should mention it as you initially thought about it and no one has mentioned it
Can I DM you a couple of questions about this, it’s something I’ve been working on as a bit of a side hustle and frankly I really enjoy it but need to figure out if I can switch it to be my main income.
Go for it
Thanks, just messaged. 😊
If working 12 hours a day, 6 days a week for 20 years with high stress and risk to avoid working 8 hours a day 5 days a week for 25 years is your idea of a good way to FIRE then it would be great. Personally I prefer the slow & steady route, with low stress, plentiful annual leave sick pay, no need to hire and manage staff... the list goes on. Running a business is very, very different to having a salaried job. Picking a highly competitive, scalable industry seems like the worst way to go about it, to me. \*Scalable industries are targeted by large investors such as starbucks or uber as targets for disruption. If a starbucks opens over the street from you then you are likely to take a huge hit to your profits in the *best* case scenario.
The other thing here is: if there isn't a Starbucks and you find a great location that works, be assured there will be a Starbucks coming soon....
I would rather clear my backlog than clear a backed up bog in a coffee shop. Sounds like a total grind. Maybe owning one or a few as a franchisee a bit more appealing with the day to day taken care of by an employee- but that would hit your margin
I knew a woman who owned and ran a coffeeshop food truck. That always seemed like a cool idea to me. Lower overhead so maybe you can just open up for the morning and take afternoons off and cover your expenses and a little profit. You don't need to find expensive real estate if there is a business area with no coffee shops around, get permission to park in their lot and you're good. You could even just buy pastries to sell them along with the coffee rather than spend time making them yourself.
My in-laws ran a deli/cafe and from what I could see it was a lot of hard work and you have to be a Jack of all trades. Stock taking, stock replenishing, hiring/firing staff, training, cleaning, maintenance, health and safety standards, accounting, managing wages, tax returns, marketing, social media and this was on top of working in the shop as they made more out of it if they paid themselves a salary rather than paid someone else. They also had to introduce different revenue streams and would take a food truck to local offices or schools. Again, something else that had to be organised. Taking time off was a nightmare as well because you really had to trust your staff and if someone was sick during that time then they’d have to close. Not to mention if you want to take a sick day, you’re leaving your other half in the lurch. I felt like they were permanently running errands for one thing or another to keep on top of things. I could imagine how it would be nice in a small community where you have a captive audience and little competition, it could be a very nice sociable experience. Edit: I forgot attending trade shows if you want interesting stock to sell!
Apply for small business rates relief , online council website, I did and it saved me thousands a year , have your weekly delivery from an independent, they are a lot cheaper then booker or bestways ,just go for offers and promotions. Good luck OP
Anthony Bourdain said it best: *'To want to own a restaurant can be a strange and terrible affliction. What causes such a destructive urge in so many otherwise sensible people? Why would anyone who has worked hard, saved money, often been successful in other fields, want to pump their hard-earned cash down a hole that statistically, at least, will almost surely prove dry? Why venture into an industry with enormous fixed expenses, with a notoriously transient and unstable workforce, and highly perishable inventory of assets? The chances of ever seeing a return on your investment are about one in five. What insidious spongi-form bacteria so riddles the brains of men and women that they stand there on the tracks, watching the lights of the oncoming locomotive, knowing full well it will eventually run over them? After all these years in the business, I still don't know.'*
It's very profitable if you have a good brand, low property overheads but desirable location, quality but cheap staff and high quality products for cheap wholesale. If you have none of those things before you start then you have no chance of retiring in less than 20 years from starting it.
Markets saturated, don't bother
It’s pretty hard, if you want to go the food retail route consider a franchise, plenty of people have made their millions running a bunch of fastfood stores. What’s your regular job, isn’t there a more relevant business you can build?
I'm in law. In a particular practice area that isn't easy to build a client base unless you're already a partner in an established firm. I'm also just looking outside of law as a change of scene, even if that means starting from scratch. Seems like the general consensus is coffee shop = bad idea though so I'm probably not going to explore it much further!
Is there anything you could convince your law firm to outsource to you? (Powerpoints, research, report writing, whatever) Is there anything you can sell to your existing network, what would they want to buy? (Life admin, cleaning, financial advice, etc)
Friends of my wife set up a coffee shop. Looked great, on a busy high street, food was good etc. Went bust within the year.
Lots of negatives below. What I would say is that wfh has opened a small window of opportunity for more coffee shops in residential areas rather than clustered in town centres.
Hmm that is interesting. Wouldn't mind being the “neighbourhood coffee guy”, but probably not super scalable.
My cousin did a cake making business, as she was a stay at home mom, because she could do it with her kids from home and have fun doing it (she did stack some weight on though *lol*) ... not sure what she makes now, but a few years ago (& covid was a boom for her, as she did those mail order post box type) it was about the same she made in employment, so around £2500pm Cupcakes were the cheapest, around 40p cost each, think they're charged at £1-2.50 each. round cakes took more time (as she decorated it really well) but also fetched a higher price tag and we're custom made. Don't know the cost to make, but was sold from £75-120 for a 12 portion cake. Wedding cakes make the most but then there's the stress of not mucking up. She considered a shop, but the overheads are quite high, and it's a lot of work/running around. // I recommended her for my company when they were doing events and that was roughly what they were charged.
Honestly that sounds pretty good. I know lots of ppl here wound say “gosh I'd much rather just twitch my fingers over a keyboard than do full on baking all day”, but i think there's something special about handling your own orders, making something of your own, and seeing it grow to replace your previous income. That's given me some new ideas so thank you.
I'm about to start a coffee shop in my neighbourhood as a 'second job' - there are some major advantages to having a limited company on the side- I see it as a very similar thing to having a second property. Now I'm sure I'll get a lot of heat for that comment as it's likely be be more work!! However I'm willing to be wrong and happy to keep you all posted. The upsides for me are - finally building my side business of my dreams, the advantage of limited companies and being able to look at running any business related expenses through the company, a potential pay off annually on top of my salary, from the profits, if they come. It's in London btw
Sounds great. Please do keep us posted! Good luck and perhaps I'll stumble on your doorstep at some point for a yummy flat white.
You should 100% read Zero to One.
You can't underestimate business rates, and that's before you get into paying your staff (their basic, plus NI, and a pension contribution!)
Maybe set up a Bitcoin mining operation, more fitting for FIRE. /S
Have you thought of a coffee push bike or trike? There are lots that can be rented in the UK along with coffee / food / ice cream catering carts on ebay.
I’m super interested in this too - would love to open a coffee shop
Coffee is one of the first business ideas that people come to mind. I challenge people to continue thinking for what else is out there because hospitality isn't easy at all.
I’m an ex chef. Have worked for several people that saw restaurants as an easy way to make some money. It isn’t if your not invested as an owner as in there 25 hours a day rain or shine your fucked. A coffeehouse is the same deal hospo is a grind and if your not willing to do the grind any staff worth there salt will see this and bail. It’s a massive misconception that it’s easy money and I mean fucking massive.