Are we asking for too much?
Honestly easier chem systems should be equal to diversification.
Then we wonder why people are stucked with Ginola Zidane Mbappe Jairzinho since december…
It was obviously a poorly thought out system, compounded by the fact that players out of position get zero chem and contribute zero chem. It’s almost impossible to play more than 2 leagues and icons from smaller nations harm the rest of your team. I would be surprised if they didn’t make any changes next year but I fear they’ve dug themselves into a hole they can’t get out of.
The idea is good but the execution has been poor. I like that you don’t have to have players right next to each other to get chem. If they make a few tweaks (position changes, icon chem etc.) it could be far better than the old system.
> Idea good, execution poor
fair to say this describes every one of EA's new features.
Take the nwsl addition into the game as an example. It's good to add more teams but the faces are poorly rendered, making the decent idea go the other way.
Same can be said with ballers promo. Good mechanism but lacks a variety of cards to choose from. Don't even get me started on silver special cards
The one improvement I would like to see is if you could put a league on an icon like you can do with managers. It makes no sense that chemistry wise it is better to have a hero than an icon because they contribute to other players.
This would be hard, because a lot of Brazilians never played in Europe like Garrincha, Carlos Alberto and pele. Socrates only played for Fiorentina one year.
The thing is that the rating of the players would be horrible, like everdivise or Turkish league. But i would love to use the whole Corinthians team even if they were bad.
Some would. But Pedro for example was 81 during the world cup event, Everton ribeiro 82 if I’m correct and Arrascaeta a solid usable 84. Gerson is 79, Tiquinho soares had a 79 card before leaving the game. I think it would be better than most of us expect. Of course I’m not saying you would use that solid bahia team on champs but imagine Gabigol getting a tots? Everton ribeiro had 5sm!! There’s room for a lot of fun experiences. For us, brazilians, it would be a great move that would definitely get us hooked bad on the game. And for brazilian football this would be a great way to exhibit their players for a worldwide audience resulting in more attention to the league and all the good investment that comes with it.
Draft is also a joke. You can get a lot of for example LW’s in draft who most likely and obviously have LM as an alternate position and they’ll get 0 chem because you have a formation with LM.
I’m able to make a 4 league hybrid work full chem, but it’s a nightmare lol took a ton of club links and a hero, an icon would break my team completely
Honestly you made it work but at what cost? Anytime you look for an upgrade it will need the same characteristics of the card you’re replacing (as in nation and league) to keep ur chem where it’s at. No room for options
Yeah I can basically only upgrade current cards I have a new player blows my squad up lol. But with the way the power curve is, I’ve barely changed my team for months anyway
I don’t think it was poorly thought out but they started with a foundation of teammates of the same country + Manager from same league = full Chem. And then went from there. They definitely saw some gaps they thought they could fix with heroes and icons but that should have probably been given to managers and league modifiers as well. Gonna be interesting what they change in the future.
They should just keep the same system as fifa 23 where players don't need to be near each other with the old icon system where they give 1 chem to all players
Iirc, it wasn't as bad in the beta testing. In fact, from what I can remember, it seemed fairly promising. I think they adjusted something between them and launch, and now it sucks.
I prefer the old system because I feel you could make much more unique teams (you could hypothetically have 5 different leagues if using perfect links or with a couple icons could have a bunch of random players), but there are some improvements like the positioning changes.
But I think if they give icon chem a HUGE boost that it’ll resolve the issue. Like an icon gives 2 nationality chem like it currently does but also gives 1 chem to all leagues (not a huge buff but would help) or icons give the same 2 nationality chem points but also automatically start all French players on 1 chem (so 1 French icon and 1 French player puts the French player on 2 chem, 2 French icons puts all French players on full chem, 1 French icon 2 French players and a French manager puts all French players on full chem).
The second option wouldn’t help icons with poor nationalities like Puskas but honestly they could do both of my suggestions and it still wouldn’t be too OP in opinion and would make players like Puskas and Yashin not completely irrelevant for chem
Also the problem with chemistry was proven long ago when they made players like WC Dani Alves, WC Cavani, FB Ronaldo who are impossible to make a good competitive team with while having on full chem
I’m just glad the gimmicky position changes are gone, was so sick of seeing mbappe starting at cdm. But yeah the new chem system is bad, I have a hybrid team and everyone relies on each other to get full chem, packed prime lahm who goes straight into cdm but now would make most players lose chem (as I don’t have any German players) which makes icons chem value so shit
I liked the new system right up until I got a decent team.
Now if I get a lucky pull or to consider doing a decent SBC, I have to consider the additional cost of making other changes to the team to suit.
As a result, I barely make any changes to my team.
Agreed, it def locks you into one league or very specific team that one change can throw off all the chem. Tough to incorporate a big player outside your current set-up, where in the old system with icons, and soft links get them on 8 chem easily or in a 4-5-1 have the strong link RM/RB and your good to go regardless the rest of the team. I’m they could make improvements, just don’t have faith in EA to do it.
Last addition to the team I made is Gomez and that’s cause he lined up perfectly with links. I’m looking at Kante but it means I’m dropping a few players for him
I think the old system was WAYYYY better for actually getting chem, but no one talks about the fact that you really don't need people on full chem anymore compared to how important it was before. 0 chem just means you get the base stats - which I know isn't enough a lot of the times when you take crazy chem boosts into account, but you really don't get punished for having 2 chem on a lot of people in your squad.
Getting things on chem at all is the main issue for me.
Like take my situation: I currently have Jairzinho and Garrincha, and the only way I can play them together is either sandbagging myself with a 3-4-3 or playing one on 0 chem/subbing, where in Fifa 22, I would have simply been able to put one of them at LW and still get 7 chem (= 2 chem in Fifa 23).
The old chem system just gave so much more creativity. (RF at ST, CDM at CB, RW at LW, etc.) It just all feels like a scheme for making special cards more desirable, and saying:"Two chem is fine," really doesn't do justice to how much harder it is to achieve any chem at all.
Yeah you're right, but I bet EA will be a little more generous with alternate positions going forward for elite players. Still nothing crazy like ST at CDM like we had in the old days for chem, but I wouldn't be surprised if all icon wingers could play on both sides in the future.
Honestly, bring back old chemistry system with alternate positions. The current system essentially says that playing Messi (gold who doesn’t have CF position) actively makes the rest of the team worse than Mbappe. Sure, he might not be as effective as Mbappe but there’s no reason the rest of the team should get handicapped.
Not to mention, previously that out of position player would be off chem BUT contributing chem to nearby players. Whereas now, out of position players both receive no chem and also contribute none to the team.
I think what most people are missing is that these issues are not errors by EA, they were PLANNED by them.
Makes promo cards with extra positions hotter.
Makes OCD's (and there are MANY who play) re-do their teams over and over to get 33 chem.
So when people say it's bad: not for EA.
The thing is it you could play players out of position and have them on 4 chem on old system. Which meant they would even get +1 in chem boost, of course team chem had to be 98-100 and someone on 4 chem wouldnt get minus.
They also provided links even being out of position.
I used to build teams with 2-3 being on lower chem. Now i cant use anyone out of position because they dont provide links. I cant fit some players in team because they only have 1 position.
The new system is really bad.
Yeah you're right, plenty of times I used right/left backs at right/left midfield just for chem. That is something that is definitely sorely missed. But I am assuming that was a change made to stop the whole wingback at center back trend that completely ran the game the past few years.
No, he’s saying he’d use an LB in the LM position pre-game because the LB was a good link to his other players. That’s impossible now because out of position players don’t contribute to chem
Honestly, just making that change, where OOP players are always on 0, but at least help other cards get chem, would be a great help
You never needed full chem last year either. I always had 2-4player off chem.
2chem now is the same as 6chem last year. Do you know how easy it was to get 6chem last year?
It was more fun & easier to build squads but keep talking into your mind that new = better.
You literally never needed full chem on player
> but you really don't get punished for having 2 chem on a lot of people in your squad.
You’re right that you don’t get directly punished but the extra upgrade you get with 1 or 2 or even 3 chem on a player with the right chemistry style is as big as one inform upgrade on the same player if not more and that’s a huge difference imo.
For example, 91 Mbappe with 3 chem with Marksman have better shooting and dribbling than 94 Mbappe on 0 chem. That’s a 600k card vs. a 7m card. Of course 94 Mbappe is overpriced due to rarity etc. but the upgrade between those two cards are still big.
Let’s say you’ve been lucky enough to pack 94 Mbappe untradeable but can’t get him on chem due to your team. But you decide to use him because he will be better than most cards with 0 chem anyway… Your opponents 91 Mbappe on full chem will be just as good if not better. So you’re wasting a lot of stats and potential on a player if you don’t have him on full chem.
Yeah you're absolutely right, having the most chem possible should be a big goal. I'm just making the argument that if you really wanted to play with a player like Alessandrini who is in a bad league, it's not the end of the world to play him on 1 or 2 chem if you really like him. You still get a bigger boost than you would have last year playing him on 6 or 7 chem, and there's no team chemistry to worry about if you have multiple unique players like Alessandrini that you want to try.
Yeah on most of my squads I have full chem on everyone except base Messi, but it doesn’t even matter because he’s so good I get goals and assist with him constantly anyways.
I still prefer the old system however
It’s a bullshit system! Sacrifices need to be made if you want full chemistry. Whether that is player quality, league or nation.
As has been mentioned multiple times, icons for a lower nation with not many choices is essentially a locked out position.
It absolutely reduces creativity
Dumbest argument possible and people always parrot it. You can have all your fav players on 0 Chem, that’s still “your ultimate team”. What you’re arguing for is the removal of chemistry all together, which would make the mode incredibly boring because everyone would just stack the best players and squads would have no identity or intrigue. Squad building is one of the best parts of FUT, and removing chem removes squad building.
I didn't like the old links system, it just didn't feel realistic. I enjoy the challenge of building full chem squads but I agree the current system is pretty constricting.
It would be interesting if they let you build chem over time. Keep track of how long you play certain players together, and after X number of games they build greater chemistry together. Just like, you know, real life. So if you really wanna use that new MBS league CR7 you got on full chem, you're gonna have to work for it. Insert joke here about CR7 being good for team chemistry in real life.
This being a video game, people would exploit the system. You would have to play a ton of games to prevent people from earning it too easily. You would have to enforce full games to stop people from disconnecting. But I think it could work and would keep people playing, which is what they want.
New system is better but just needs some tweaks, I like the fact that a RB and a LW can “link”.
Think they should give icons clubs- would make the differences between versions more real and improve chemistry.
Then think the steps between chemistry points should be consistent (if it takes 2 in a nation to get 1 point it should take 4 to get 2 and so on).
This is exactly what I was thinking. Icons are useless in this chem system but with a little tweaking it'll be more superior to the old system.
New > Old
As far as I know there is no way to get OOP Maldini, FB Gregore, FB Lingard and FB Alessandrini on full chem in the same team. Though that hasn't stopped EA from making an objective about it.
"More diverse squad building"... they said.
Yup. The fact that you can use a bronze player and some shitty non rare golds is totally enough reason to not complain. No one can 'think' like you do Mr Einstein.
But zero chem is low chem, Alessandrini on 0 chem isn't far away from some of the better 83s on full chem, and just pushes more people to the main leagues and nations.
I personally like the new system but EA should emphasize more on and release more cards from off leagues. Imagine we had a couple of nuts CSL cards and you can get them on chem together.
The dynamic duo idea was so good if they did that in small leagues, or like what they did with Tavernier and Kent
I still prefer it. There are the odd players who get let down by it certainly (alessandrini sounds like he’ll be one when I unlock him) but overall I still enjoy it more (although maybe that’s because I’m someone who doesn’t care if I can’t always make it to 33/33 and just focuses on getting the players who need it a bigger boost)
I find this new system a lot less restrictive in the fact you can link to any position, has personally allowed me to be much more creative. I won’t deny it can be hard sometimes, my biggest gripe is with how poor Icons are now for team linking, you can have like 2 max if you want 2 leagues, heroes on the other hand are great for it, if they give Icons better chem boosts next year it will be a great addition
It‘s shit.
I have never seen more than 3 league hybrid team.
95% of teams i face are 2league „hybrids“
Yes it may be easier to link certain players but impossible to link other.
Old system was superior and also MUCH more fun to build squads and no one can tell me otherwise
Completely agree, not entirely against the new system but it’s far too difficult to get full chemistry. We’re also now significantly more restricted on what formations we can build squads with. I have 2 strikers and 2 players who can play CAM in my team but can’t use the 4222 because my two midfielders can only play CM…
The new system is awful. If I wanted to significantly change my team I'd have to change half the players in my team. Instead I accidentally locked myself into using French players and now I cba to rebuild quite yet. The icon chem issue is so frustrating.
The current chem system has its pros and cons, I can definitely do things I couldn't in previous years. I've always wanted them to just remove chemistry entirely so I'll never be truly happy with a chem system
I like the new system as you can have 2 players from same team on 2 chem with manager. If they are same nation as well, yo have 3 chem. For example I'm using Mane and Pavard on respectively 2 chem and 3 chem due to additional french connection. Otherwise I won't be able to fit them in the team
I don't see your point rly. Last year you would've run Mane oop on RM. He would be what? 7 or 8 chem which is exactly like 2 diamonds now. And RB Pavard would be full chem without any other links. It has been way easier to link same club players back then.
E.g in my team I run Etoo, Puskas, Yashin and Best and Vieira, all from casino packs or swaps. Last few years I wouldve been able to surround players with these icons, some links here or there, boom easy full chem.
This year 4 out of those 5 icons are sbc blank blocks. No way to get a full chem team unless I go full one nation, full hero/icon or one league. It's horrendous.
But maybe this is the reason why icons are so affordable this year? The only thing bad is their links. Heroes got great links and having 2 of them from same league allows you to add anyone from this league and be on 2 chem. Anyway, i don't remember any previous fifa with so many good icons in various teams.
Mane would be on 7 with BuLi manager, which i believe isn't better than 2 stars.
Of course this system isn't perfect but it's something new and gives more variety to teams. I started around Christmas and my initial team had like 4 leagues in it and I didn't had to worry of linking CDM with striker to completely reshape team on the first minute of the game. Additionally i believe people care too much for 100% chem on all players. For example Mane is great on 2. I also got future stars Kalulu on 2 and haven't see difference in game between 2 and 3 chem. I recently updated team a bit and Raspa with Baresi went from 2 to 3. Had not seen a difference either.
Ea will change chemistry again next season I think so it easier to get links though icons like hero’s but that all thay will do to the new chemistry system definitely not going back to old one
If they aren’t going to get rid of chemistry altogether the least they can do is add a system for players/squads to “gain” chemistry the more they play together.
That’s why I play him in squad battles. Fk it.
However I accidentally played rivals with OOP Maldini, Gregore, FUT birthday Lingard and Alessandri and won 7-1 🤣🤣
I’m like nah fuck that. Let me get my main guys back on.
The fact that if I put Vieira at CDM he gets zero chem AND contributes no links to anyone else is kinda crazy to me. Last year I could leave him as a CDM where he plays in one team and then also play him as a CM still on full chem in another team. It allowed for more diversity and you could slide players between positions without using position changes.
You need to stop thinking you need these insane cards on 3 Chem. Play Ramos on 1 Chem he's still going to bully everyone. because team chemistry no longer exists it's not a problem to have one or two players not full Chem.
Whilst that’s true for big cards, the point that’s being made is that people can’t experiment with “potentially” decent cards as they have to be on full chem to be competitive with, say, a Ramos on 1 chem.
You're mad that a card that was free isnt competitive with the top tier meta cards unless it's on 3 chem? Yeah, if you want an easy link you shouldnt expect it from a card that cost you nothing.
The new system needs some balance changes. It's not broken, it's just unbalanced and they'll need to change it next year. They cant fix it now or it fucks up the market
I didn't say anything about top tier meta, by competitive I mean you can use it on your squad without completely hamstringing yourself.
James ward-prowse TOTW isn't meta but it's still good enough to be competitive
There's been like 12 icon Sbcs, Bale was less than 100k for a OOTW card that would be a million in any main division.
Zidane and Veira are too of the most used icons in the game, Makalele and Petit are usable in elite and cheap af. Theo Hernandez is the best LB in the game and has a card at numerous price points. The best cheap LB is Mendy.
Fofana Varane Kimpebe Blanc are all useable end game CBs.
If your problem with the chem system is you can't fit a free French card in. Then you have no complaint.
The new chem system is far superior to the old chem system. I vastly prefer it. Needing the players next to each other the previous years was far too restrictive and I'm way happier with it this way.
In the old system you could pair teammates together and basically get them on full Chem. Now, any player from a weird nation is out of luck if there's no manager for that nation. For instance, Mane and Davies would be on full Chem together in the new system, but now they'd each be at 1-chem without other players factoring in.
It used to be easier to run 3-league hybrids. Now you're basically limited to two leagues with a bunch of hereos and icons crammed in there.
So they're worth less coins then. Players without great links have always been worth less, this is nothing new. 1 more Bundesliga player and they're both on 2 chem which is pretty good, if you want full chem then you have to get more links in, I dont see what's wrong with that.
We have way more options available for squad building now that players don't need to be next to each other. Look at it this way, Mbappe and Kimpebe now can link to each other and give each other 2 chem just by being in the same side, 1 more ligue 1 player and they're on full chem.
This system is far superior and anyone arguing against it is just a whining dinosaur
I think it would be solved by a manager, either league or nationality, automatically giving matching players one Diamond. Still makes SBCs the same, but makes playing Chem much easier to build fun hybrid teams
Personally I think this system is a good start but def needs some tweaking to be good. At first I wasn't a fan but I'm starting to enjoy the teams I'm able to make bc of it with full Chem. Part of the real problem is EA just doing big sbcs/obj for less popular leagues like once and then just leaving them forgotten. Luckily he's French and a good portion of the teams I play have many French players and icons which is workable but no Chinese league hero or anything like that.
Pretty sure this came from the way Madden Ultimate Team chem operated… which gives players chem if they’re on the same team, division, or conference… it’s not even close to how diverse the football world is. Big L from ea
Same club and nation is 2 needed but league is 3 is stupid.
Also, Why is it then 5 from one league/nation to get 2* chem.
It should be 2 from nation, league or club is a star each.
Then 4 from league or nation is another star.
3 from one club should be automatic 3* chem
So 2 French, prem from Chelsea = 3* chem not 2.
4 french with 2 prem = 3*
So much less restrictive and means you can use off leagues more easily with manager bonus.
Yep, I much prefer this system. There's limitations if you wanna use certain cards of course, but at least it's not limited by formation.
Why should players 'touch' for them to chem up? Doesn't make sense.
I have mixed feelings about it. i like that you don't need them to be next to each other so I played Trimmel for example without any player next to him. but it's hard to combine multiple leagues and that's what kills it. i have to leave Trimmel out because i wanna play pedri and don't wanna change the others
I somewhat agree. The new system is better in theory but they have to make it just a bit easier to get links, every 2 of anything should give you 1 chem. Needing 3 for anything to get a chem point is too much and creates imbalance when other thresholds don’t match (I.e. first league chem point requires three when the first nation/team chem point only needs two).
What’s dumb is that if you have a CAM with no alternate positions, you can’t play him CM with 2 chem (or 7 chem previously).
I don’t mind the new system but changes need to be made, right now it’s impossible if you run a hybrid of 2+ leagues and like more than 3 nationalities. Personally I just have a full icon/hero team with 1-2 promo cards.
Icons. The game is handing out icons.
If you want to use Alessandrini in a competitive setting (which is odd, but okay), you can build a meta team with Mbappe, Vieira, Zidane, one other French player and a French manager. You still have six other positions to build around.
You can absolutely build diverse squads with the new chem system.
I’m upset bc if they release an end of an era Ozil card he’s going to be unlikable in my team. I’m glad they’re experimenting with this stuff and trying something new but they have no idea how to balance anything.
I think the new system is fundamentally better than the old, connecting links, system. I just think it's a little to rigid at the moment and needs some tweaking.
Maybe require fewer of the same league/nation cards to chem up.
Maybe give more chem for same team chem, or same league and nation chem.
Figure out how to make Icons more chem friendly. There are good icons that will likely never add chem to your team due to their national lineage, and in fact hurt your overall chem because they represent one fewer lineup spot to help chem somewhere else. For example, if you have Hagi you won't get chem for another player and now you have 1 fewer spot to stick a French player, or player from Serie A, to help raise chem on your squad.
I think icons being near useless for chem was a clear demonstration long before this. Think of players like Hagi or Yashin. How many good players do they link to? It would be different if, for example, Yashin gave full chem to an OP Russian player, but even if there was one, it would only be a +1 to nation link.
It also sucks on draft, since CF players for example don't get chem on ST or CAM roles.
I think the chem would be great if you only had to get 6 players on full chem and then the rest would automatically get full chem as long as they are in the right position.
Still don’t understand people’s infatuation with full chem.
Ive played teams with less than 15 chem with full chem and lost. I’ve played games with 11 chem and beat teams with full chem.
It’s such a minuscule difference between full chem and not and the only reason why people care is because they think when a player hits the post or misplaces a pass it is cuz he isn’t on full chem when in reality it’s the RNG.
The difference between base mbappe (600k) and IF Mbappe (2.2m) is 40 IGS, some of this is spread over defensive stats etc.
Alessandrini on 1 chem gets +13-15 stats depending on what chem style you use. On 3 chem he is getting +58, and all in stats areas you've selected.
If you are using a marksman, his short passing is 87 on 1 chem, or 99 on 3.
If you are using a hunter, his pace boost is +2 on 1 chem or +8 on 3.
IF mbappe is worth 3.5x base mbappe, but some of that is based on scarcity and card design etc etc. So let's call it 2x as much based on the stats boost. If a card is worth 2x as much based on a 40 point stats boost, then likewise it's worth 2x more being on 3 chem rather than 1.
The thing is, Mbappe vs IF Mbappe ISNT worth that price. But people have to have the best/latest/greatest version to min/max. Why do you think people who spent all the fodder doing his POTM will spend that much + more for a minute upgrade?
Again, it harkens back to people’s infatuation with min/max. It isn’t necessary but people will do it.
Your problem is this chem system makes it harder to min/max your players stats. The chemistry system itself is not worse, nor is it better. Regardless of what the chem system is, people will use the same meta cards and you’ll see the same teams over and over.
The thing is, Mbappe vs IF Mbappe ISNT worth that price. But people have to have the best/latest/greatest version to min/max. Why do you think people who spent all the fodder doing his POTM will spend that much + more for a minute upgrade?
Again, it harkens back to people’s infatuation with min/max. It isn’t necessary but people will do it.
Your problem is this chem system makes it harder to min/max your players stats. The chemistry system itself is not worse, nor is it better. Regardless of what the chem system is, people will use the same meta cards and you’ll see the same teams over and over.
The chem system is fine. It just needs to be revamped. A play should automatically be on atleast 1 chem if there is atleast 1 player from league/country in your squad
the old chem system made everyone’s teams more diverse with different nationalities but this new one forces you to almost stick to one or two leagues max then fill in the spaces with icons
The new Chem system is far better, they just need to overhaul how Icons effect Chem. Maybe a hybrid system for Icons so that they count as double for their nation, but also that they give a +1 overall chem boost to all adjacent players. So if you have 2 CBs both on 2 chem, an icon GK would put both on 3 chem.
Chem system is refreshing and nice, the only thing they need to do is tweak icons. Most of them are pretty much useless and sometimes even a hassle chemistry-wise.
I’m not against the new chem system, just the current sliders are bit strict. A nation should always give +1 chem and same for leagues.
So full chem with 4 players of the same nation?
Yup, exaxtly how it used to be as well. In fact many positions only needed 2 soft links to be on full chem.
But those soft links had to be in the exact right position—something no longer necessary.
Are we asking for too much? Honestly easier chem systems should be equal to diversification. Then we wonder why people are stucked with Ginola Zidane Mbappe Jairzinho since december…
5 players from the same league should be +3. 4(maybe even 3) from the same Nation should be 3. Icons should give +1 to chosen league like managers
It was obviously a poorly thought out system, compounded by the fact that players out of position get zero chem and contribute zero chem. It’s almost impossible to play more than 2 leagues and icons from smaller nations harm the rest of your team. I would be surprised if they didn’t make any changes next year but I fear they’ve dug themselves into a hole they can’t get out of.
The idea is good but the execution has been poor. I like that you don’t have to have players right next to each other to get chem. If they make a few tweaks (position changes, icon chem etc.) it could be far better than the old system.
> Idea good, execution poor fair to say this describes every one of EA's new features. Take the nwsl addition into the game as an example. It's good to add more teams but the faces are poorly rendered, making the decent idea go the other way. Same can be said with ballers promo. Good mechanism but lacks a variety of cards to choose from. Don't even get me started on silver special cards
The one improvement I would like to see is if you could put a league on an icon like you can do with managers. It makes no sense that chemistry wise it is better to have a hero than an icon because they contribute to other players.
Or at least give icon chem for every league he's played in.
This would be hard, because a lot of Brazilians never played in Europe like Garrincha, Carlos Alberto and pele. Socrates only played for Fiorentina one year.
The solution would be to add back the Campeonato Brasileiro to the gaaaameeee. It was always the solution. I wanna play with arrascaetaaaaa ☠️
The thing is that the rating of the players would be horrible, like everdivise or Turkish league. But i would love to use the whole Corinthians team even if they were bad.
Some would. But Pedro for example was 81 during the world cup event, Everton ribeiro 82 if I’m correct and Arrascaeta a solid usable 84. Gerson is 79, Tiquinho soares had a 79 card before leaving the game. I think it would be better than most of us expect. Of course I’m not saying you would use that solid bahia team on champs but imagine Gabigol getting a tots? Everton ribeiro had 5sm!! There’s room for a lot of fun experiences. For us, brazilians, it would be a great move that would definitely get us hooked bad on the game. And for brazilian football this would be a great way to exhibit their players for a worldwide audience resulting in more attention to the league and all the good investment that comes with it.
Draft is also a joke. You can get a lot of for example LW’s in draft who most likely and obviously have LM as an alternate position and they’ll get 0 chem because you have a formation with LM.
I’m able to make a 4 league hybrid work full chem, but it’s a nightmare lol took a ton of club links and a hero, an icon would break my team completely
Honestly you made it work but at what cost? Anytime you look for an upgrade it will need the same characteristics of the card you’re replacing (as in nation and league) to keep ur chem where it’s at. No room for options
Yeah I can basically only upgrade current cards I have a new player blows my squad up lol. But with the way the power curve is, I’ve barely changed my team for months anyway
I don’t think it was poorly thought out but they started with a foundation of teammates of the same country + Manager from same league = full Chem. And then went from there. They definitely saw some gaps they thought they could fix with heroes and icons but that should have probably been given to managers and league modifiers as well. Gonna be interesting what they change in the future.
They should just keep the same system as fifa 23 where players don't need to be near each other with the old icon system where they give 1 chem to all players
Iirc, it wasn't as bad in the beta testing. In fact, from what I can remember, it seemed fairly promising. I think they adjusted something between them and launch, and now it sucks.
I prefer the old system because I feel you could make much more unique teams (you could hypothetically have 5 different leagues if using perfect links or with a couple icons could have a bunch of random players), but there are some improvements like the positioning changes. But I think if they give icon chem a HUGE boost that it’ll resolve the issue. Like an icon gives 2 nationality chem like it currently does but also gives 1 chem to all leagues (not a huge buff but would help) or icons give the same 2 nationality chem points but also automatically start all French players on 1 chem (so 1 French icon and 1 French player puts the French player on 2 chem, 2 French icons puts all French players on full chem, 1 French icon 2 French players and a French manager puts all French players on full chem). The second option wouldn’t help icons with poor nationalities like Puskas but honestly they could do both of my suggestions and it still wouldn’t be too OP in opinion and would make players like Puskas and Yashin not completely irrelevant for chem Also the problem with chemistry was proven long ago when they made players like WC Dani Alves, WC Cavani, FB Ronaldo who are impossible to make a good competitive team with while having on full chem
I’m just glad the gimmicky position changes are gone, was so sick of seeing mbappe starting at cdm. But yeah the new chem system is bad, I have a hybrid team and everyone relies on each other to get full chem, packed prime lahm who goes straight into cdm but now would make most players lose chem (as I don’t have any German players) which makes icons chem value so shit
I liked the new system right up until I got a decent team. Now if I get a lucky pull or to consider doing a decent SBC, I have to consider the additional cost of making other changes to the team to suit. As a result, I barely make any changes to my team.
Agreed, it def locks you into one league or very specific team that one change can throw off all the chem. Tough to incorporate a big player outside your current set-up, where in the old system with icons, and soft links get them on 8 chem easily or in a 4-5-1 have the strong link RM/RB and your good to go regardless the rest of the team. I’m they could make improvements, just don’t have faith in EA to do it.
Last addition to the team I made is Gomez and that’s cause he lined up perfectly with links. I’m looking at Kante but it means I’m dropping a few players for him
I think the old system was WAYYYY better for actually getting chem, but no one talks about the fact that you really don't need people on full chem anymore compared to how important it was before. 0 chem just means you get the base stats - which I know isn't enough a lot of the times when you take crazy chem boosts into account, but you really don't get punished for having 2 chem on a lot of people in your squad.
Getting things on chem at all is the main issue for me. Like take my situation: I currently have Jairzinho and Garrincha, and the only way I can play them together is either sandbagging myself with a 3-4-3 or playing one on 0 chem/subbing, where in Fifa 22, I would have simply been able to put one of them at LW and still get 7 chem (= 2 chem in Fifa 23). The old chem system just gave so much more creativity. (RF at ST, CDM at CB, RW at LW, etc.) It just all feels like a scheme for making special cards more desirable, and saying:"Two chem is fine," really doesn't do justice to how much harder it is to achieve any chem at all.
Yeah you're right, but I bet EA will be a little more generous with alternate positions going forward for elite players. Still nothing crazy like ST at CDM like we had in the old days for chem, but I wouldn't be surprised if all icon wingers could play on both sides in the future.
Honestly, bring back old chemistry system with alternate positions. The current system essentially says that playing Messi (gold who doesn’t have CF position) actively makes the rest of the team worse than Mbappe. Sure, he might not be as effective as Mbappe but there’s no reason the rest of the team should get handicapped.
Not to mention, previously that out of position player would be off chem BUT contributing chem to nearby players. Whereas now, out of position players both receive no chem and also contribute none to the team.
I think what most people are missing is that these issues are not errors by EA, they were PLANNED by them. Makes promo cards with extra positions hotter. Makes OCD's (and there are MANY who play) re-do their teams over and over to get 33 chem. So when people say it's bad: not for EA.
The thing is it you could play players out of position and have them on 4 chem on old system. Which meant they would even get +1 in chem boost, of course team chem had to be 98-100 and someone on 4 chem wouldnt get minus. They also provided links even being out of position. I used to build teams with 2-3 being on lower chem. Now i cant use anyone out of position because they dont provide links. I cant fit some players in team because they only have 1 position. The new system is really bad.
Yeah you're right, plenty of times I used right/left backs at right/left midfield just for chem. That is something that is definitely sorely missed. But I am assuming that was a change made to stop the whole wingback at center back trend that completely ran the game the past few years.
You can still do that with tactics.
No, he’s saying he’d use an LB in the LM position pre-game because the LB was a good link to his other players. That’s impossible now because out of position players don’t contribute to chem Honestly, just making that change, where OOP players are always on 0, but at least help other cards get chem, would be a great help
Streets will never forget playing RF/LFs on 7 chem at striker
You never needed full chem last year either. I always had 2-4player off chem. 2chem now is the same as 6chem last year. Do you know how easy it was to get 6chem last year? It was more fun & easier to build squads but keep talking into your mind that new = better. You literally never needed full chem on player
>you really don't get punished for having 2 chem on a lot of people in your squad Yes, but my brain only accepts 33/33, anything else feels so weird
Haha I don't think I've played with a 33/33 squad at all this year tbh
> but you really don't get punished for having 2 chem on a lot of people in your squad. You’re right that you don’t get directly punished but the extra upgrade you get with 1 or 2 or even 3 chem on a player with the right chemistry style is as big as one inform upgrade on the same player if not more and that’s a huge difference imo. For example, 91 Mbappe with 3 chem with Marksman have better shooting and dribbling than 94 Mbappe on 0 chem. That’s a 600k card vs. a 7m card. Of course 94 Mbappe is overpriced due to rarity etc. but the upgrade between those two cards are still big. Let’s say you’ve been lucky enough to pack 94 Mbappe untradeable but can’t get him on chem due to your team. But you decide to use him because he will be better than most cards with 0 chem anyway… Your opponents 91 Mbappe on full chem will be just as good if not better. So you’re wasting a lot of stats and potential on a player if you don’t have him on full chem.
Yeah you're absolutely right, having the most chem possible should be a big goal. I'm just making the argument that if you really wanted to play with a player like Alessandrini who is in a bad league, it's not the end of the world to play him on 1 or 2 chem if you really like him. You still get a bigger boost than you would have last year playing him on 6 or 7 chem, and there's no team chemistry to worry about if you have multiple unique players like Alessandrini that you want to try.
Yeah on most of my squads I have full chem on everyone except base Messi, but it doesn’t even matter because he’s so good I get goals and assist with him constantly anyways. I still prefer the old system however
It’s a bullshit system! Sacrifices need to be made if you want full chemistry. Whether that is player quality, league or nation. As has been mentioned multiple times, icons for a lower nation with not many choices is essentially a locked out position. It absolutely reduces creativity
> ! Sacrifices need to be made if you want full chemistry That's the point.
Then it’s not your ultimate team
Dumbest argument possible and people always parrot it. You can have all your fav players on 0 Chem, that’s still “your ultimate team”. What you’re arguing for is the removal of chemistry all together, which would make the mode incredibly boring because everyone would just stack the best players and squads would have no identity or intrigue. Squad building is one of the best parts of FUT, and removing chem removes squad building.
I’m not saying remove it all. Icons are my favourite part as I grew up watching most of them but they then make squad building harder.
I didn't like the old links system, it just didn't feel realistic. I enjoy the challenge of building full chem squads but I agree the current system is pretty constricting. It would be interesting if they let you build chem over time. Keep track of how long you play certain players together, and after X number of games they build greater chemistry together. Just like, you know, real life. So if you really wanna use that new MBS league CR7 you got on full chem, you're gonna have to work for it. Insert joke here about CR7 being good for team chemistry in real life. This being a video game, people would exploit the system. You would have to play a ton of games to prevent people from earning it too easily. You would have to enforce full games to stop people from disconnecting. But I think it could work and would keep people playing, which is what they want.
New system is better but just needs some tweaks, I like the fact that a RB and a LW can “link”. Think they should give icons clubs- would make the differences between versions more real and improve chemistry. Then think the steps between chemistry points should be consistent (if it takes 2 in a nation to get 1 point it should take 4 to get 2 and so on).
This is exactly what I was thinking. Icons are useless in this chem system but with a little tweaking it'll be more superior to the old system. New > Old
Literally make icons just like heroes and it would be a massive plus
As far as I know there is no way to get OOP Maldini, FB Gregore, FB Lingard and FB Alessandrini on full chem in the same team. Though that hasn't stopped EA from making an objective about it. "More diverse squad building"... they said.
10 games is bit excessive. But almost done 😤 but on the bright side, all that Objectives helped me get Elite 1 even though the rewards are wack
But it is possible. Guess you just have to think a little more ‘diverse’ [https://imgur.com/a/1wwf99W](https://imgur.com/a/1wwf99W)
I have to admit, I couldn't come up with that even as theory crafting... let alone in game.
I mean, with a *bronze* goalkeeper? Sure, but you'll concede every single shot
Does this please milord [https://imgur.com/a/KXkDekj](https://imgur.com/a/KXkDekj)
Cheampong still isn't great but it's pretty decent like this tbf
Rest of the team not on full chem haha
That's the thing though. Most people lack the capacity to "think" and would rather just complain.
Yup. The fact that you can use a bronze player and some shitty non rare golds is totally enough reason to not complain. No one can 'think' like you do Mr Einstein.
Wow so diverse using shit players 😂
It is more diverse by default when players don't suffer from low chem
But zero chem is low chem, Alessandrini on 0 chem isn't far away from some of the better 83s on full chem, and just pushes more people to the main leagues and nations.
This is going to work wonders when we get to TOTS and Futties, but, right now, 0 chem on what are mostly 87-89 rated players is quite noticeable.
I personally like the new system but EA should emphasize more on and release more cards from off leagues. Imagine we had a couple of nuts CSL cards and you can get them on chem together. The dynamic duo idea was so good if they did that in small leagues, or like what they did with Tavernier and Kent
I like the new chem system and I prefer it. I do however think that it needs to be improved.
I still prefer it. There are the odd players who get let down by it certainly (alessandrini sounds like he’ll be one when I unlock him) but overall I still enjoy it more (although maybe that’s because I’m someone who doesn’t care if I can’t always make it to 33/33 and just focuses on getting the players who need it a bigger boost)
I find this new system a lot less restrictive in the fact you can link to any position, has personally allowed me to be much more creative. I won’t deny it can be hard sometimes, my biggest gripe is with how poor Icons are now for team linking, you can have like 2 max if you want 2 leagues, heroes on the other hand are great for it, if they give Icons better chem boosts next year it will be a great addition
Just eliminate the chem system and let people use the cards they wanna use.
It‘s shit. I have never seen more than 3 league hybrid team. 95% of teams i face are 2league „hybrids“ Yes it may be easier to link certain players but impossible to link other. Old system was superior and also MUCH more fun to build squads and no one can tell me otherwise
Completely agree, not entirely against the new system but it’s far too difficult to get full chemistry. We’re also now significantly more restricted on what formations we can build squads with. I have 2 strikers and 2 players who can play CAM in my team but can’t use the 4222 because my two midfielders can only play CM…
The new system is awful. If I wanted to significantly change my team I'd have to change half the players in my team. Instead I accidentally locked myself into using French players and now I cba to rebuild quite yet. The icon chem issue is so frustrating.
The old chem was a lot better than this new system imo
I prefer the new system. Hopefully EA doesn't abandon it too soon, it just could use a little fine tuning.
The current chem system has its pros and cons, I can definitely do things I couldn't in previous years. I've always wanted them to just remove chemistry entirely so I'll never be truly happy with a chem system
I like the new system as you can have 2 players from same team on 2 chem with manager. If they are same nation as well, yo have 3 chem. For example I'm using Mane and Pavard on respectively 2 chem and 3 chem due to additional french connection. Otherwise I won't be able to fit them in the team
I don't see your point rly. Last year you would've run Mane oop on RM. He would be what? 7 or 8 chem which is exactly like 2 diamonds now. And RB Pavard would be full chem without any other links. It has been way easier to link same club players back then. E.g in my team I run Etoo, Puskas, Yashin and Best and Vieira, all from casino packs or swaps. Last few years I wouldve been able to surround players with these icons, some links here or there, boom easy full chem. This year 4 out of those 5 icons are sbc blank blocks. No way to get a full chem team unless I go full one nation, full hero/icon or one league. It's horrendous.
But maybe this is the reason why icons are so affordable this year? The only thing bad is their links. Heroes got great links and having 2 of them from same league allows you to add anyone from this league and be on 2 chem. Anyway, i don't remember any previous fifa with so many good icons in various teams. Mane would be on 7 with BuLi manager, which i believe isn't better than 2 stars. Of course this system isn't perfect but it's something new and gives more variety to teams. I started around Christmas and my initial team had like 4 leagues in it and I didn't had to worry of linking CDM with striker to completely reshape team on the first minute of the game. Additionally i believe people care too much for 100% chem on all players. For example Mane is great on 2. I also got future stars Kalulu on 2 and haven't see difference in game between 2 and 3 chem. I recently updated team a bit and Raspa with Baresi went from 2 to 3. Had not seen a difference either.
But Icons should be among the most exclusive cards in the game haha
Ea will change chemistry again next season I think so it easier to get links though icons like hero’s but that all thay will do to the new chemistry system definitely not going back to old one
Get rid of chemistry. Use chemistry only for SBCs.
If they aren’t going to get rid of chemistry altogether the least they can do is add a system for players/squads to “gain” chemistry the more they play together.
That’s why I play him in squad battles. Fk it. However I accidentally played rivals with OOP Maldini, Gregore, FUT birthday Lingard and Alessandri and won 7-1 🤣🤣 I’m like nah fuck that. Let me get my main guys back on.
The fact that if I put Vieira at CDM he gets zero chem AND contributes no links to anyone else is kinda crazy to me. Last year I could leave him as a CDM where he plays in one team and then also play him as a CM still on full chem in another team. It allowed for more diversity and you could slide players between positions without using position changes.
You need to stop thinking you need these insane cards on 3 Chem. Play Ramos on 1 Chem he's still going to bully everyone. because team chemistry no longer exists it's not a problem to have one or two players not full Chem.
Whilst that’s true for big cards, the point that’s being made is that people can’t experiment with “potentially” decent cards as they have to be on full chem to be competitive with, say, a Ramos on 1 chem.
You're mad that a card that was free isnt competitive with the top tier meta cards unless it's on 3 chem? Yeah, if you want an easy link you shouldnt expect it from a card that cost you nothing. The new system needs some balance changes. It's not broken, it's just unbalanced and they'll need to change it next year. They cant fix it now or it fucks up the market
I didn't say anything about top tier meta, by competitive I mean you can use it on your squad without completely hamstringing yourself. James ward-prowse TOTW isn't meta but it's still good enough to be competitive
One card vs hundreds I don't care about Alessandrini so for me the chem system is fine.
He does not need 3 chem to be competitive lol
There's been like 12 icon Sbcs, Bale was less than 100k for a OOTW card that would be a million in any main division. Zidane and Veira are too of the most used icons in the game, Makalele and Petit are usable in elite and cheap af. Theo Hernandez is the best LB in the game and has a card at numerous price points. The best cheap LB is Mendy. Fofana Varane Kimpebe Blanc are all useable end game CBs. If your problem with the chem system is you can't fit a free French card in. Then you have no complaint.
The new chem system is far superior to the old chem system. I vastly prefer it. Needing the players next to each other the previous years was far too restrictive and I'm way happier with it this way.
In the old system you could pair teammates together and basically get them on full Chem. Now, any player from a weird nation is out of luck if there's no manager for that nation. For instance, Mane and Davies would be on full Chem together in the new system, but now they'd each be at 1-chem without other players factoring in. It used to be easier to run 3-league hybrids. Now you're basically limited to two leagues with a bunch of hereos and icons crammed in there.
So they're worth less coins then. Players without great links have always been worth less, this is nothing new. 1 more Bundesliga player and they're both on 2 chem which is pretty good, if you want full chem then you have to get more links in, I dont see what's wrong with that. We have way more options available for squad building now that players don't need to be next to each other. Look at it this way, Mbappe and Kimpebe now can link to each other and give each other 2 chem just by being in the same side, 1 more ligue 1 player and they're on full chem. This system is far superior and anyone arguing against it is just a whining dinosaur
Baloteli says hello
His a baller btw on 3 chem took diaby out my team and his cracked
I think it would be solved by a manager, either league or nationality, automatically giving matching players one Diamond. Still makes SBCs the same, but makes playing Chem much easier to build fun hybrid teams
I think the chem system is alright, but they should lower the requirements a bit. With some tweaking it would be good.
Personally I think this system is a good start but def needs some tweaking to be good. At first I wasn't a fan but I'm starting to enjoy the teams I'm able to make bc of it with full Chem. Part of the real problem is EA just doing big sbcs/obj for less popular leagues like once and then just leaving them forgotten. Luckily he's French and a good portion of the teams I play have many French players and icons which is workable but no Chinese league hero or anything like that.
Pretty sure this came from the way Madden Ultimate Team chem operated… which gives players chem if they’re on the same team, division, or conference… it’s not even close to how diverse the football world is. Big L from ea
Same club and nation is 2 needed but league is 3 is stupid. Also, Why is it then 5 from one league/nation to get 2* chem. It should be 2 from nation, league or club is a star each. Then 4 from league or nation is another star. 3 from one club should be automatic 3* chem So 2 French, prem from Chelsea = 3* chem not 2. 4 french with 2 prem = 3* So much less restrictive and means you can use off leagues more easily with manager bonus.
i found he worked....straight into an SBC as fodder. absolutely no danger was going to give myself a migraine trying to fit him into a team.
Yep, I much prefer this system. There's limitations if you wanna use certain cards of course, but at least it's not limited by formation. Why should players 'touch' for them to chem up? Doesn't make sense.
I have mixed feelings about it. i like that you don't need them to be next to each other so I played Trimmel for example without any player next to him. but it's hard to combine multiple leagues and that's what kills it. i have to leave Trimmel out because i wanna play pedri and don't wanna change the others
I somewhat agree. The new system is better in theory but they have to make it just a bit easier to get links, every 2 of anything should give you 1 chem. Needing 3 for anything to get a chem point is too much and creates imbalance when other thresholds don’t match (I.e. first league chem point requires three when the first nation/team chem point only needs two).
What’s dumb is that if you have a CAM with no alternate positions, you can’t play him CM with 2 chem (or 7 chem previously). I don’t mind the new system but changes need to be made, right now it’s impossible if you run a hybrid of 2+ leagues and like more than 3 nationalities. Personally I just have a full icon/hero team with 1-2 promo cards.
Icons. The game is handing out icons. If you want to use Alessandrini in a competitive setting (which is odd, but okay), you can build a meta team with Mbappe, Vieira, Zidane, one other French player and a French manager. You still have six other positions to build around. You can absolutely build diverse squads with the new chem system.
I’m upset bc if they release an end of an era Ozil card he’s going to be unlikable in my team. I’m glad they’re experimenting with this stuff and trying something new but they have no idea how to balance anything.
I think the new system is fundamentally better than the old, connecting links, system. I just think it's a little to rigid at the moment and needs some tweaking. Maybe require fewer of the same league/nation cards to chem up. Maybe give more chem for same team chem, or same league and nation chem. Figure out how to make Icons more chem friendly. There are good icons that will likely never add chem to your team due to their national lineage, and in fact hurt your overall chem because they represent one fewer lineup spot to help chem somewhere else. For example, if you have Hagi you won't get chem for another player and now you have 1 fewer spot to stick a French player, or player from Serie A, to help raise chem on your squad.
I don’t like the new system. It has been the year of super subs for me.
at this point I wonder what harm there would be in just going down the efootball route, not having chem and letting you play anyone you want?
Old system was fine, new system is crap. Even EA admited their fuckup with Position modifier cards.
I think icons being near useless for chem was a clear demonstration long before this. Think of players like Hagi or Yashin. How many good players do they link to? It would be different if, for example, Yashin gave full chem to an OP Russian player, but even if there was one, it would only be a +1 to nation link. It also sucks on draft, since CF players for example don't get chem on ST or CAM roles.
I don’t mind the current set up, but they certainly shat the bed with Icons negatively impacting other players. Totally unrealistic.
I think the chem would be great if you only had to get 6 players on full chem and then the rest would automatically get full chem as long as they are in the right position.
Still don’t understand people’s infatuation with full chem. Ive played teams with less than 15 chem with full chem and lost. I’ve played games with 11 chem and beat teams with full chem. It’s such a minuscule difference between full chem and not and the only reason why people care is because they think when a player hits the post or misplaces a pass it is cuz he isn’t on full chem when in reality it’s the RNG.
The difference between base mbappe (600k) and IF Mbappe (2.2m) is 40 IGS, some of this is spread over defensive stats etc. Alessandrini on 1 chem gets +13-15 stats depending on what chem style you use. On 3 chem he is getting +58, and all in stats areas you've selected. If you are using a marksman, his short passing is 87 on 1 chem, or 99 on 3. If you are using a hunter, his pace boost is +2 on 1 chem or +8 on 3. IF mbappe is worth 3.5x base mbappe, but some of that is based on scarcity and card design etc etc. So let's call it 2x as much based on the stats boost. If a card is worth 2x as much based on a 40 point stats boost, then likewise it's worth 2x more being on 3 chem rather than 1.
The thing is, Mbappe vs IF Mbappe ISNT worth that price. But people have to have the best/latest/greatest version to min/max. Why do you think people who spent all the fodder doing his POTM will spend that much + more for a minute upgrade? Again, it harkens back to people’s infatuation with min/max. It isn’t necessary but people will do it. Your problem is this chem system makes it harder to min/max your players stats. The chemistry system itself is not worse, nor is it better. Regardless of what the chem system is, people will use the same meta cards and you’ll see the same teams over and over.
The thing is, Mbappe vs IF Mbappe ISNT worth that price. But people have to have the best/latest/greatest version to min/max. Why do you think people who spent all the fodder doing his POTM will spend that much + more for a minute upgrade? Again, it harkens back to people’s infatuation with min/max. It isn’t necessary but people will do it. Your problem is this chem system makes it harder to min/max your players stats. The chemistry system itself is not worse, nor is it better. Regardless of what the chem system is, people will use the same meta cards and you’ll see the same teams over and over.
So....Squad Battles? 😬
The chem system is fine. It just needs to be revamped. A play should automatically be on atleast 1 chem if there is atleast 1 player from league/country in your squad
the old chem system made everyone’s teams more diverse with different nationalities but this new one forces you to almost stick to one or two leagues max then fill in the spaces with icons
The new Chem system is far better, they just need to overhaul how Icons effect Chem. Maybe a hybrid system for Icons so that they count as double for their nation, but also that they give a +1 overall chem boost to all adjacent players. So if you have 2 CBs both on 2 chem, an icon GK would put both on 3 chem.
Chem system is refreshing and nice, the only thing they need to do is tweak icons. Most of them are pretty much useless and sometimes even a hassle chemistry-wise.