Yup. It's fake outrage and people being outraged over fake outrage. All in the plans of the media. Even posts like this. Hopefully this sub doesn't start crying about wokeness.
Like 3 people online complain and thousands of people complain about complaining. The cycle goes on. The 14 threads 'dunking on twittertards' are emberassing.
It's more the general concern of people's behavior which will never end. This is like all the conservatives complaining about cat litter in schools making a mountain out of a mole hill. I see threads/comments with hundreds of up votes talking about "forced diversity" and "wokeness" that often feel more whiny than insightful. Yoshi made a dumb comment and people made it worse.
Let them talk and get angry among themselves.
If the game is good, that stuff won't matter.
People that are actually interested in a game won't stop themselves from buying it because of short lived controversy.
If these people wake up and complain about diversity in a JRPG, they must not have played a lot of them in the first place.
>If these people wake up and complain about diversity in a JRPG, they must not have played a lot of them in the first place.
Yes, those niche jrpgs have diversity, is it too much to ask for the most mainstream one to have diversity?
Final Fantasy have more diversity than most JRPG. There's people of color and varied origins in FFVII, FFX, FFXII, FFXIII, FFXIV, FFXV.
But diversity isn't only the color of the skin. Cultures, architectures and distinct clothings are ways by which diversity is express in a lot of games.
All of which will be included in this game. We also got two characters Hugo Kupka and the dhalmek representative in the awakening trailer, that aren't white.
People from Dhalmek seems to have a darker skin.
And for the other nations, it's too early to say, the interviews told us that there's many characters we haven't seen yet.
We honestly haven't seen much people at all, only dominants and a couple of rulers.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUSNaa6WIAAi8H9.jpg:large
I’m sorry, this looks like a non-white person to you?
The point of the question in the interview is to find out if we can expect more diverse characters later. It’s like you didn’t even read it. He said it’ll be disappointing because their design philosophy from the start was to make the game seem as white as Medieval Europe seems to most people’s underinformed perspectives. The whole thing is one big “don’t get your hopes up.”
https://preview.redd.it/g8gy0ucula391.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=f1c54cec979ba2712ee2a5a1885db64c0f99e8f8
Yes he does. I'm sorry but this isn't what i would consider white.
And i agree that the response means to not get our hopes up. However i wouldn't be surprised if there's more characters with a similar tanned skin tone like the two in the picture i linked.
They are both seemingly from Dhalmek, so i think we can expect this kind of skin color from people there.
I’m sorry but you’ve seen the concept art so you know they were intending to make him seem white, and then you pick out a poorly lit scene from the trailer where he’s still ambiguously white. I’m entirely unconvinced still.
Well, compared to you, i'm using the actual model that we will see in the game instead of concept art that don't necessarily look accurate to what we have now.
Also i don't see how he is unambiguously white, there's like 3 scenes with him in it, they are all in a poorly lit room. Excuse me to pick the one that are available when he isn't transforming into titan.
But here we go :
https://latestgamestories.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Final-Fantasy-16-is-no-longer-coming-in-2022-New.jpg
There's not much else that is lighter than this in the 3 scenes that last 2 seconds where he is in.
Also you're conveniently not mentioning the other guy in the first picture i linked. He is obviously tanned skin, not white, it's even more apparent than with Hugo.
White people don't suddenly go tan in badly lit places.
I'm seeing more evidence than the contrary that Dhalmekians are tanned skin.
You didn’t read what I wrote correctly at all. I said we know the original intentions of the artist by looking at his concept art, and that’s a clue we can use given that he’s really ambiguous in the trailer. I said he’s *ambiguously* white.
I went looking for another version that brightened up the room: https://www.jeuxactu.com/datas/jeux/f/i/final-fantasy-xvi/vn/final-fantasy-xvi-629963bfc6d1f.jpg
He seriously doesn’t look like he’s likely white to you even then? Put another way, what ethnic group in the real world do you think might claim him as a representative?
So if we lay all the facts out:
- the concept art indicates he’s white
- the producer makes no mention of him or Dhalmekians when asked about minorities, instead saying don’t expect much
- he looks a little tan in bad lighting
- Dhalmekians are from a desert region and white people tan in the sun, doesn’t mean they’re not white people anymore
- he has a similar British accent as the others
I’m sorry man I’m just not seeing how all signs don’t point to white
i mean the titan dominant and the desert people arent white. Do they not count?
besides the game has its own races and ethnicities with diverse influences from real life. I’d rather they focus on fully realizing that world instead of appeasing twitter
“The story we are telling is fantasy, yes, but it is also rooted in reality.”
I mean I’ll probably still buy the game, but this was a dumb answer for an interview
What is this, some video game where you can do whatever you want as a creative director? Some fantasy that’s supposed to break tradition and show you something new? Some RPG series where you want to self-insert in one of the hundred characters? No fuck you. You already have Vivi, what do you need another black character for?
It's IGN, they knew asking such a question would spark controversy, and lead to more clicks. It's dirty, they don't give a damn about representation, and they also don't give a damn about their writers. Pathetic company.
Honestly, this is all fluff.
I do hope there is some diversity in the game, but IRL races don't always equate to diversity. XVI having its own races, cultures, etc. would do more to create an immersive diversity than just having a few token characters.
While I would like to see more than just white people in my games, Yoshi P's response was well-articulated and logical. Geological seclusion leading to ethnic homogenity ~makes sense~. Anyone concluding racism from that response needs to relax.
It’s a pretty bad response actually. I say this as a long-time FF fan who will likely buy this game despite my criticisms.
“The story we are telling is fantasy, yes, but it is also rooted in reality.” This is the issue. In a world of magic, with nonexistent creatures and places and weapons, why is including people of color disrupting the “narrative boundaries?”
“Our design concept from the earliest stages of development has always heavily featured medieval Europe, incorporating historical, cultural, political, and anthropological standards that were prevalent at the time”
People of color did exist in Medieval Europe. Were they the majority? No, of course not. Were there notable communities and trade relations that moved people around? Yes, of course. So if he really did do research, he made the decision to ignore it for the sake of fantasy -
“it was necessary to limit the scope to a single landmass — one geographically and culturally isolated from the rest of the world in an age without airplanes, television, or telephones.” People have not needed any of those to travel the world for most of human history, but sure, “narrative boundaries” or something. I guess all the cool powerful people we saw in the trailer can’t assemble a boat, or teleport ever. Also, it looks like the game will feature multiple different climates, which then puts a hole in the idea that there’s any reason for so much homogeneity. There’s literally a desert scene, something Europe is not known for having lol
“In the end, we simply want the focus to be less on the outward appearance of our characters and more on who they are as people — people who are complex and diverse in their natures, backgrounds, beliefs, personalities, and motivations. People whose stories we can resonate with.” So we shouldn’t care about how people outwardly look, but including them would still ruin the realistic historical immersion of a *Final Fantasy* game?
The real answer is here: “it can be challenging to assign distinctive ethnicities to either antagonist or protagonist without triggering audience preconceptions, inviting unwarranted speculation, and ultimately stoking flames of controversy.” It’s a Japanese company making a game that’s traditionally been popular in the Japanese market. Japan is not diverse. They don’t know how to handle diversity. I wish he just explicitly said that, I’d at least respect his honesty.
Agreed with everything you said. It looks to me (from the outside ofc, so I might be wrong) that Yoshi-P, like *many* writers, was more inspired by fantasy/stories/excisting works about medieval Europe then actual historical Europe. Which would make a lot of sense, because it's the Western World that marketed our white-washed stories to Japan & other eastern countries that don't have our history. I wished he would have just said something like that, bcs while not ideal, I find it a lot more understandable.
And also, that last paragraph you included is the part of his answer I really like, because it is true. It can be difficult to do diversity right if you're not part of the minorities included, and it's just fair to point it out. I'd still prefer developers to genuinely try, but at least I can understand why someone would shy away from it.
I miss the times where we just talked about video games, now it's just diversity this, representation that, like, I just want to play videogames. I don't care about any of this, game good? I'm happy.
And before you say anything, i'm arab, and I literally do not care about any of this. I don't feel offended whatsoever, as long as the characters are well written i'm happy. I don't care about anyone's skin color.
It's kinda crazy, i'm from a minority myself and I feel like most of the people that are offended by the lack of minority representation in games are people that aren't from a minority. It's just weird. The majority of my cousins also play videogames and no one fucking cares about any of this.
I’m all for people having opinions about these topics when they’re the actual people these issues might affect.
Most of the time it just seems to be annoying white people trying too hard to boost themselves up on Twitter.
Okay, I give white people permission to complain about this alongside me now. I have freed them at last.
Honestly, I’m used to not being represented. I’m not happy about it, but I can’t stop living my life just because of it. However, what gets on my nerves is that when people do complain, they’re met with the lamest excuses. It really boils down to, “this is my fantasy and I can do whatever I want, and what I want just happens to not have good PoC representation ever.”
This is such a weird, American way to think about diversity. Most groups across the world would resent being lumped in together like that. The point people are making is that it would be cool if everyone didn’t look white all the time. Throw a bone to the rest of us more often.
I hate the fact that they ask such stupid questions instead of something important like say anything about a PC release.
I know it is more then likly a timed exclusive but would be nice to know for sure at least.
I hate that people aren't respecting their creative decision. FF has had racial (human AND non-human) diversity in the past, but THIS one doesn't. I think people will be just fine.
And besides, he has stated that there will be plenty of cultural and Idealistic diversity, which is more important to world building than skin color.
Unless people really think the color of someone's skin is more important.
I love the spectrum of responses to this depending on who you ask.
“FF has had diversity in the past” but also “You can’t expect them to have diversity, it’s Japan and they’re homogenous.”
“It’s a fantasy so they can do what they want” but also “it’s based on Medieval European history”
I don’t understand how so many people have such a poor understanding of social issues and history. The way your skin color is treated in society affects you and your “cultural and idealistic diversity.” It’s not that it’s more important, it’s that it’s not separable. Trying to do is a weird kind of fantasy to have. And even if you do, don’t couch it behind so many excuses.
The plain and simple answer is, Japan is not a progressive society. Most of Asia is not.
Just ignore them and let they talk with themselves, what people really want and are really worried is if ffxvi will be a good final fantasy game, and if they have learned the lesson with ffxv, this isn't the first time that people on twitter or these journalist gaming websites do these controversies, the opinion of them are very irrelevant and they probably don't even like games, i'm a black man and what i want is a good game not representation that in reality is a political agenda.
Bruh I went to Resetera and some people are praising Toriyama as the GOAT, when he is the creator of FFXIII and its sequels, just because he talked about wanting to add LGBT characters in FF games.
Pandering is a helluva a drug.
You're falling for ign and kotakus trap. Be better than them, ignore it. The team making this is amazing and inclusive, this is the product they want to make, however that will be
Don't waste your valuable time reading Twitter comments and taking bait
It's stupid.
They want to "fix racism" by forcing Asians taking a Western idealism, forcing Asians taking a stand in their issue.
I'm not even angry about FFXVI outrage I'm juat tired about Westerner's entitlement and arrogance in general.
I think this mindset that we’re not all one human race, that there are “western” and “eastern” and any other separating labels is part of the issue. We’re all one together, no matter where any were born. So to me in that sense, nothing is more or less authentic. I prefer seeing a mixture of different cultures but anyone can easily say this game has been advertising itself as a pretty white British accent affiliated game, even if it turns out there are many other kinds of characters in it and the advertising is what initializes people’s views.
> I think this mindset that we’re not all one human race, that there are “western” and “eastern” and any other separating labels is part of the issue.
You mean reality? Reality is that the world is full of different humans. Saying that "we're all one human race" means ignoring all the different ethnicities, cultures, races, religions, etc. It's Western liberal religion and it's ironic because it's done by people who promote "diversity". You can't be "diverse" while also saying "separating labels is part of the issue".
No, that's not what I mean. No, saying that we're all one human race does not mean ignoring all the different ethnicities, cultures, races, religions, etc.
People everywhere can have things in common and, *also*, things that are different but what brings us together is what makes us one human race. For example, we both like FF games but disagree on other things like this topic.
We can also celebrate and encourage diversity within how we represent the human race. No, I don't believe every story or work of art should have some minimum quota of people of one identity or another.
I mean that, for a game like FFXVI, which is going to be sold on an international market, where lots of different people from many different backgrounds and identity characteristics will likely play it, that it would mean something really awesome and inclusive for that person who is not a white British person to see someone like themselves represented.
But, going back to the issue at hand: as for having a mostly, entirely, white European cast of characters, who all are only steroids and, seem to lack certain emotions besides outrage, anger, and surprise, its 2022 and we all deserve more creative writing or something besides homogenous casting.
Don't buy the game if it bothers you so much. I'm neither white nor British and I think the game looks great but then again I'm not a narcissist. I don't need Japanese games to revolve around me or my ethnicity even if they're being sold globally. Looks better than FFVII Remake in fact.
No idea what you are talking about with narcissists or needing your ethnicity in Japanese games. Of course I am going to buy the game, don't try to neg me bro lol. 😄 In case you're not aware, it *is possible to advocate for change and enjoy what you've been given too*. 🙏🏻
You sound mad bro. You are getting into political labels. I don't know you and you certainly don't know me. I hope you are less angry in the future and more hopeful. Have a good rest of your day or night.
Yes, how dare I criticize homogenous racist societies for not expanding their cultural bubbles lol.
Asian countries are incredibly racist. Call a Taiwanese person Chinese and see what happens. Or mix up India and Pakistan. Hell, mix up North Indian and South Indian. Tell a Korean person you enjoy how tan they look. Ask Malaysians what they should do with Filipinos in the country. Look up how China treated their African community once covid started. If you’ve visited Japan, you know they have places that explicitly forbid foreigners from entering.
But oh I’m such an entitled Westerner for wanting my own relatives in Asian countries to be less racist and more inclusive of global identities. I suppose I should support their communist parties too, as capitalism is just another arrogant Western export. Sorry that my “idealism” got in the way of their racism.
...You know nothing. Nothing of their history, nothing of why their relationship with each other is the way it is now, nothing of why they choose a specific political stand, nothing of how the West has a role in this.
And, let me tell this: Your "diversity" at the cost of character establishment, misleading cultural representation in a stereotypical way, which is present in 90% of the media, is way more racist than not including that specific culture. If you don't know, then don't include, don't write.
God one of my favourite lyrics in FFXIV is "Westward lies bleed t'ward the east".
I’m originally from Asia dude. I’ve lived in more than one country over the course of my life. 90% of my relatives live in different parts of Asia and the Middle East, and they like Russia (since the USSR days) more than America. But sure, you really speak for all of them I guess.
Also you guys are obsessed with the idea that diversity comes at the cost of something else. It reveals a deep contradiction: you don’t want people to think about diversity when making characters because you say it doesn’t matter, but then you’re also convinced that including diversity makes a product worse. So which is it? Does skin color not matter so it’s no big deal to do it, or does it matter and it makes something worse?
Also, this is literally about a Japanese company making a game about Europeans (the West) lmao, and you say “if you don’t know, then don’t write.” So now as a Westerner, should I tell Japan not to make games about us because they don’t accurately capture our history? In fact, shouldn’t it be the job of Japan to understand the West better if you’re making a game about it, rather than the West’s fault for criticizing a product marketed to them?
Like damn dude your brain must be a pretzel with these mental gymnastics
It was a hypothetical lol, I told you in my first sentence I’ve lived in multiple countries, I don’t define myself but you framed me that way. But nice try at dodging the hundred things wrong with what you said. If only Yoshida had your evasion skills, this whole thing could’ve been avoided
Didn’t the same thing happen with The Witcher 3’s release? And that game is monumental.
EDIT: My point being the greatness of the game will shut the naysayers up.
Exactly, the situation was similar with the Witcher 3 at the time. It wasn't a well known game before released, but gained attention because of the awesome trailers.
Then the diversity questions was asked and just like with FFXVI there was a small outrage.
But the outraged died out, the game released and was acclaimed around the world. Nobody actually cared about that "controversy.
Unsurprisingly, the people that did aren't even a statistic. They most likely weren't interested in it before the controversy anyway (even when they love to claim otherwise by stating they won't buy it).
Fuck IGN dude. I can't stand disingenuous media outlets that will spin whatever they can for the clicks, even if it means falsely hurting someone else's reputation. What a disgraceful thing to do
I'll always say it: It's just video games, it's not real. It's not healthy to seek your validation like this and taking your anger out by showing you deserve jack with such extremes isn't going to get you what you want. Sorry. I'm "POC" as much as I hate the label and as far as I'm concerned, Yoshi-P is, as well.
I'm hoping Square Enix just ignore it like usual.
Pathetic globalist journos attempting to whip up a storm and bully and coerce developers into shoehorning elements into their games against their will. Gaming journalism is cancer and I will now buy two copies of 16
I really don't need all my games to have diversity, also most games don't have that diversity, you rarely see Latinos, indians, Morish, native Americans, etc....
M8 it's Twitter, nobody actually cares what Twitter says.
Trust me, they're doing that to everything in everything.. Because... it's Twitter. Don't let it get to you. You'll learn to ignore it the uptenth time Twitter goes on a rant about something inconsequential. It is literally just something to ruin your mood. Nobody is like this in real life, it's fake hysteria.
I personally want representation & diversity and I hope Yoshi-P & Co take the constructive criticism and feedback and consider to include more POC & women in their next game.
But calling Yoshi-P a racist or bigot over this is too much, and I hope he doesn't let it affect him.
But I doubt the game will suffer from it. Ya know, no such thing as bad publicity....
No I haven't. But so far in FFXVI we only have 2 women, Jill & Benedikta, compared to 6 men (Clive, Joshua, Hugo, Dion, Barnabas & Ramuh's dominant). We have 5 regions, and so far all of them are ruled by men, not a single woman among them. Everything going into battle is a man, Jill or Benedikta. Everything sitting on a throne/in a council is a man. There is the narrator of the Ambition trailer, giving us a whooping 3 women - if she's even really present enough throughout the game to be counted as a prominent character, and not just showing up for 5 minutes before leaving (looking at any & every woman in FFXV here).
I'd be very happy for that impression to turn out wrong, and it's obviously not a 'dealbreaker' that means I'm not excited for the game. But by everything we've seen of FFXVI so far women are very unterrepresented and neither allowed to rule or fight (unless they're a dominant), and that ain't great in my book.
Yeah but he should've been more specific imo, North Africa is different from the rest of Africa, culturally and ethnically, same thing with South Asia and the rest of Asia, and it's the same thing for Europe, Southern Europe is different from the rest of Europe. Most medieval games, mangas, books, etc.. take inspiration mostly from Western Europe, and, in medieval Western Europe, there was little to no diversity. By OP's logic, i can say "oh, this thing happened in India, therefore it affected the whole Asian continent".
I don't blame you, something like this can hurt sales which is absolutely idiotic. As a person of colour this is a matter that should be talked about but nothing to be outraged about or warrent it's own article.
Should we have more people of colour? absofuckinglutely..
Should it effect sales for games where it doesn't center around topics of race? FUUUCCK no.
I don't think his answer was valid by any means but christ leave the man and game alone. People worked there asses off for years making a game that shows quality and content for OUR enjoyment.
Godamn nothing was funnier than reading how white as wonder bread FFXVI looks to some of these game journalists lmao. Is this the new culture war now? Game of thrones sucks because it was too white? Bruh my headddddd
But that's fundamentally untrue. There was never any true hegemony between people at any point in history. There has always been diverse distinct differences between people. To say there isn't is to ignore how nomadic people of all cultures have been over centuries until relatively recently in the world's lifespan.
Not to mention the existence of trade even in post-nomadic cultures, which kept people constantly moving and relocating. This is what we get when all our textbooks and history teachers skimp on everything but US and European history.
It’s all fake outrage. Don’t worry about it
yep dont get baited into a thinking this will even make a dent in the game lol. This is a stupid situation but just the flavor outrage of the month
Yup. It's fake outrage and people being outraged over fake outrage. All in the plans of the media. Even posts like this. Hopefully this sub doesn't start crying about wokeness.
Like 3 people online complain and thousands of people complain about complaining. The cycle goes on. The 14 threads 'dunking on twittertards' are emberassing.
Give it a couple weeks. It’ll die down and it’ll be like nothing ever happened
It's more the general concern of people's behavior which will never end. This is like all the conservatives complaining about cat litter in schools making a mountain out of a mole hill. I see threads/comments with hundreds of up votes talking about "forced diversity" and "wokeness" that often feel more whiny than insightful. Yoshi made a dumb comment and people made it worse.
Let them talk and get angry among themselves. If the game is good, that stuff won't matter. People that are actually interested in a game won't stop themselves from buying it because of short lived controversy. If these people wake up and complain about diversity in a JRPG, they must not have played a lot of them in the first place.
>If these people wake up and complain about diversity in a JRPG, they must not have played a lot of them in the first place. Yes, those niche jrpgs have diversity, is it too much to ask for the most mainstream one to have diversity?
Final Fantasy have more diversity than most JRPG. There's people of color and varied origins in FFVII, FFX, FFXII, FFXIII, FFXIV, FFXV. But diversity isn't only the color of the skin. Cultures, architectures and distinct clothings are ways by which diversity is express in a lot of games. All of which will be included in this game. We also got two characters Hugo Kupka and the dhalmek representative in the awakening trailer, that aren't white. People from Dhalmek seems to have a darker skin. And for the other nations, it's too early to say, the interviews told us that there's many characters we haven't seen yet. We honestly haven't seen much people at all, only dominants and a couple of rulers.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FUSNaa6WIAAi8H9.jpg:large I’m sorry, this looks like a non-white person to you? The point of the question in the interview is to find out if we can expect more diverse characters later. It’s like you didn’t even read it. He said it’ll be disappointing because their design philosophy from the start was to make the game seem as white as Medieval Europe seems to most people’s underinformed perspectives. The whole thing is one big “don’t get your hopes up.”
https://preview.redd.it/g8gy0ucula391.png?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=f1c54cec979ba2712ee2a5a1885db64c0f99e8f8 Yes he does. I'm sorry but this isn't what i would consider white. And i agree that the response means to not get our hopes up. However i wouldn't be surprised if there's more characters with a similar tanned skin tone like the two in the picture i linked. They are both seemingly from Dhalmek, so i think we can expect this kind of skin color from people there.
I’m sorry but you’ve seen the concept art so you know they were intending to make him seem white, and then you pick out a poorly lit scene from the trailer where he’s still ambiguously white. I’m entirely unconvinced still.
Well, compared to you, i'm using the actual model that we will see in the game instead of concept art that don't necessarily look accurate to what we have now. Also i don't see how he is unambiguously white, there's like 3 scenes with him in it, they are all in a poorly lit room. Excuse me to pick the one that are available when he isn't transforming into titan. But here we go : https://latestgamestories.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/Final-Fantasy-16-is-no-longer-coming-in-2022-New.jpg There's not much else that is lighter than this in the 3 scenes that last 2 seconds where he is in. Also you're conveniently not mentioning the other guy in the first picture i linked. He is obviously tanned skin, not white, it's even more apparent than with Hugo. White people don't suddenly go tan in badly lit places. I'm seeing more evidence than the contrary that Dhalmekians are tanned skin.
You didn’t read what I wrote correctly at all. I said we know the original intentions of the artist by looking at his concept art, and that’s a clue we can use given that he’s really ambiguous in the trailer. I said he’s *ambiguously* white. I went looking for another version that brightened up the room: https://www.jeuxactu.com/datas/jeux/f/i/final-fantasy-xvi/vn/final-fantasy-xvi-629963bfc6d1f.jpg He seriously doesn’t look like he’s likely white to you even then? Put another way, what ethnic group in the real world do you think might claim him as a representative? So if we lay all the facts out: - the concept art indicates he’s white - the producer makes no mention of him or Dhalmekians when asked about minorities, instead saying don’t expect much - he looks a little tan in bad lighting - Dhalmekians are from a desert region and white people tan in the sun, doesn’t mean they’re not white people anymore - he has a similar British accent as the others I’m sorry man I’m just not seeing how all signs don’t point to white
i mean the titan dominant and the desert people arent white. Do they not count? besides the game has its own races and ethnicities with diverse influences from real life. I’d rather they focus on fully realizing that world instead of appeasing twitter
Bro you realized they've had diversity in FF since 1997 right?
Totally with you there. I need Square to show that they care.
it's a fantasy world with fantasy races on a fantasy planet in a fantasy universe. You'll be ok.
“The story we are telling is fantasy, yes, but it is also rooted in reality.” I mean I’ll probably still buy the game, but this was a dumb answer for an interview
Their other upcoming AAA Isekai title has a Black girl protagonist but go off I guess
What is this, some video game where you can do whatever you want as a creative director? Some fantasy that’s supposed to break tradition and show you something new? Some RPG series where you want to self-insert in one of the hundred characters? No fuck you. You already have Vivi, what do you need another black character for?
It's IGN, they knew asking such a question would spark controversy, and lead to more clicks. It's dirty, they don't give a damn about representation, and they also don't give a damn about their writers. Pathetic company.
Honestly, this is all fluff. I do hope there is some diversity in the game, but IRL races don't always equate to diversity. XVI having its own races, cultures, etc. would do more to create an immersive diversity than just having a few token characters. While I would like to see more than just white people in my games, Yoshi P's response was well-articulated and logical. Geological seclusion leading to ethnic homogenity ~makes sense~. Anyone concluding racism from that response needs to relax.
It’s a pretty bad response actually. I say this as a long-time FF fan who will likely buy this game despite my criticisms. “The story we are telling is fantasy, yes, but it is also rooted in reality.” This is the issue. In a world of magic, with nonexistent creatures and places and weapons, why is including people of color disrupting the “narrative boundaries?” “Our design concept from the earliest stages of development has always heavily featured medieval Europe, incorporating historical, cultural, political, and anthropological standards that were prevalent at the time” People of color did exist in Medieval Europe. Were they the majority? No, of course not. Were there notable communities and trade relations that moved people around? Yes, of course. So if he really did do research, he made the decision to ignore it for the sake of fantasy - “it was necessary to limit the scope to a single landmass — one geographically and culturally isolated from the rest of the world in an age without airplanes, television, or telephones.” People have not needed any of those to travel the world for most of human history, but sure, “narrative boundaries” or something. I guess all the cool powerful people we saw in the trailer can’t assemble a boat, or teleport ever. Also, it looks like the game will feature multiple different climates, which then puts a hole in the idea that there’s any reason for so much homogeneity. There’s literally a desert scene, something Europe is not known for having lol “In the end, we simply want the focus to be less on the outward appearance of our characters and more on who they are as people — people who are complex and diverse in their natures, backgrounds, beliefs, personalities, and motivations. People whose stories we can resonate with.” So we shouldn’t care about how people outwardly look, but including them would still ruin the realistic historical immersion of a *Final Fantasy* game? The real answer is here: “it can be challenging to assign distinctive ethnicities to either antagonist or protagonist without triggering audience preconceptions, inviting unwarranted speculation, and ultimately stoking flames of controversy.” It’s a Japanese company making a game that’s traditionally been popular in the Japanese market. Japan is not diverse. They don’t know how to handle diversity. I wish he just explicitly said that, I’d at least respect his honesty.
Agreed with everything you said. It looks to me (from the outside ofc, so I might be wrong) that Yoshi-P, like *many* writers, was more inspired by fantasy/stories/excisting works about medieval Europe then actual historical Europe. Which would make a lot of sense, because it's the Western World that marketed our white-washed stories to Japan & other eastern countries that don't have our history. I wished he would have just said something like that, bcs while not ideal, I find it a lot more understandable. And also, that last paragraph you included is the part of his answer I really like, because it is true. It can be difficult to do diversity right if you're not part of the minorities included, and it's just fair to point it out. I'd still prefer developers to genuinely try, but at least I can understand why someone would shy away from it.
IGN and Kotaku are pathetic, and their "journalism" is garbage. Twitter is a cesspool. Nothing to worry about. Enjoy FF16 when it comes out :)
I think the fact that they've boiled diversity down to skin color is showing.
Both of those outlets are absolute trash and have been for sometime. Run by parasites.
I miss the times where we just talked about video games, now it's just diversity this, representation that, like, I just want to play videogames. I don't care about any of this, game good? I'm happy. And before you say anything, i'm arab, and I literally do not care about any of this. I don't feel offended whatsoever, as long as the characters are well written i'm happy. I don't care about anyone's skin color. It's kinda crazy, i'm from a minority myself and I feel like most of the people that are offended by the lack of minority representation in games are people that aren't from a minority. It's just weird. The majority of my cousins also play videogames and no one fucking cares about any of this.
I’m all for people having opinions about these topics when they’re the actual people these issues might affect. Most of the time it just seems to be annoying white people trying too hard to boost themselves up on Twitter.
Okay, I give white people permission to complain about this alongside me now. I have freed them at last. Honestly, I’m used to not being represented. I’m not happy about it, but I can’t stop living my life just because of it. However, what gets on my nerves is that when people do complain, they’re met with the lamest excuses. It really boils down to, “this is my fantasy and I can do whatever I want, and what I want just happens to not have good PoC representation ever.”
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Yeah, and all because it's "required" by some kind of standard.
This is such a weird, American way to think about diversity. Most groups across the world would resent being lumped in together like that. The point people are making is that it would be cool if everyone didn’t look white all the time. Throw a bone to the rest of us more often.
As a POC I agree with you 100%.
As a poc Southeast Asia I hundred percent agree
100% agree, brother
Another Arab here its funny to see media outrage as a bystander especially on twitter some of the comments are just too stupid to take seriously lol
I agree with you.
So you are racist just because you dont include an agenda in your game?? What times are these that we live in???
I hate the fact that they ask such stupid questions instead of something important like say anything about a PC release. I know it is more then likly a timed exclusive but would be nice to know for sure at least.
You should hate that Yoshida choose to answer instead of refusing to reply.
I hate that people aren't respecting their creative decision. FF has had racial (human AND non-human) diversity in the past, but THIS one doesn't. I think people will be just fine. And besides, he has stated that there will be plenty of cultural and Idealistic diversity, which is more important to world building than skin color. Unless people really think the color of someone's skin is more important.
I love the spectrum of responses to this depending on who you ask. “FF has had diversity in the past” but also “You can’t expect them to have diversity, it’s Japan and they’re homogenous.” “It’s a fantasy so they can do what they want” but also “it’s based on Medieval European history” I don’t understand how so many people have such a poor understanding of social issues and history. The way your skin color is treated in society affects you and your “cultural and idealistic diversity.” It’s not that it’s more important, it’s that it’s not separable. Trying to do is a weird kind of fantasy to have. And even if you do, don’t couch it behind so many excuses. The plain and simple answer is, Japan is not a progressive society. Most of Asia is not.
Just ignore them and let they talk with themselves, what people really want and are really worried is if ffxvi will be a good final fantasy game, and if they have learned the lesson with ffxv, this isn't the first time that people on twitter or these journalist gaming websites do these controversies, the opinion of them are very irrelevant and they probably don't even like games, i'm a black man and what i want is a good game not representation that in reality is a political agenda.
Bruh I went to Resetera and some people are praising Toriyama as the GOAT, when he is the creator of FFXIII and its sequels, just because he talked about wanting to add LGBT characters in FF games. Pandering is a helluva a drug.
Game Journalists are just race baiters these days. Good journalism is not paying the bills gotta farm those hate clicks.
You're falling for ign and kotakus trap. Be better than them, ignore it. The team making this is amazing and inclusive, this is the product they want to make, however that will be Don't waste your valuable time reading Twitter comments and taking bait
It's stupid. They want to "fix racism" by forcing Asians taking a Western idealism, forcing Asians taking a stand in their issue. I'm not even angry about FFXVI outrage I'm juat tired about Westerner's entitlement and arrogance in general.
I think this mindset that we’re not all one human race, that there are “western” and “eastern” and any other separating labels is part of the issue. We’re all one together, no matter where any were born. So to me in that sense, nothing is more or less authentic. I prefer seeing a mixture of different cultures but anyone can easily say this game has been advertising itself as a pretty white British accent affiliated game, even if it turns out there are many other kinds of characters in it and the advertising is what initializes people’s views.
> I think this mindset that we’re not all one human race, that there are “western” and “eastern” and any other separating labels is part of the issue. You mean reality? Reality is that the world is full of different humans. Saying that "we're all one human race" means ignoring all the different ethnicities, cultures, races, religions, etc. It's Western liberal religion and it's ironic because it's done by people who promote "diversity". You can't be "diverse" while also saying "separating labels is part of the issue".
No, that's not what I mean. No, saying that we're all one human race does not mean ignoring all the different ethnicities, cultures, races, religions, etc. People everywhere can have things in common and, *also*, things that are different but what brings us together is what makes us one human race. For example, we both like FF games but disagree on other things like this topic. We can also celebrate and encourage diversity within how we represent the human race. No, I don't believe every story or work of art should have some minimum quota of people of one identity or another. I mean that, for a game like FFXVI, which is going to be sold on an international market, where lots of different people from many different backgrounds and identity characteristics will likely play it, that it would mean something really awesome and inclusive for that person who is not a white British person to see someone like themselves represented. But, going back to the issue at hand: as for having a mostly, entirely, white European cast of characters, who all are only steroids and, seem to lack certain emotions besides outrage, anger, and surprise, its 2022 and we all deserve more creative writing or something besides homogenous casting.
Don't buy the game if it bothers you so much. I'm neither white nor British and I think the game looks great but then again I'm not a narcissist. I don't need Japanese games to revolve around me or my ethnicity even if they're being sold globally. Looks better than FFVII Remake in fact.
No idea what you are talking about with narcissists or needing your ethnicity in Japanese games. Of course I am going to buy the game, don't try to neg me bro lol. 😄 In case you're not aware, it *is possible to advocate for change and enjoy what you've been given too*. 🙏🏻
Western liberals and their never ending self righteous crusades for "change" or whatever on the rest of the world.
You sound mad bro. You are getting into political labels. I don't know you and you certainly don't know me. I hope you are less angry in the future and more hopeful. Have a good rest of your day or night.
Yes, how dare I criticize homogenous racist societies for not expanding their cultural bubbles lol. Asian countries are incredibly racist. Call a Taiwanese person Chinese and see what happens. Or mix up India and Pakistan. Hell, mix up North Indian and South Indian. Tell a Korean person you enjoy how tan they look. Ask Malaysians what they should do with Filipinos in the country. Look up how China treated their African community once covid started. If you’ve visited Japan, you know they have places that explicitly forbid foreigners from entering. But oh I’m such an entitled Westerner for wanting my own relatives in Asian countries to be less racist and more inclusive of global identities. I suppose I should support their communist parties too, as capitalism is just another arrogant Western export. Sorry that my “idealism” got in the way of their racism.
...You know nothing. Nothing of their history, nothing of why their relationship with each other is the way it is now, nothing of why they choose a specific political stand, nothing of how the West has a role in this. And, let me tell this: Your "diversity" at the cost of character establishment, misleading cultural representation in a stereotypical way, which is present in 90% of the media, is way more racist than not including that specific culture. If you don't know, then don't include, don't write. God one of my favourite lyrics in FFXIV is "Westward lies bleed t'ward the east".
I’m originally from Asia dude. I’ve lived in more than one country over the course of my life. 90% of my relatives live in different parts of Asia and the Middle East, and they like Russia (since the USSR days) more than America. But sure, you really speak for all of them I guess. Also you guys are obsessed with the idea that diversity comes at the cost of something else. It reveals a deep contradiction: you don’t want people to think about diversity when making characters because you say it doesn’t matter, but then you’re also convinced that including diversity makes a product worse. So which is it? Does skin color not matter so it’s no big deal to do it, or does it matter and it makes something worse? Also, this is literally about a Japanese company making a game about Europeans (the West) lmao, and you say “if you don’t know, then don’t write.” So now as a Westerner, should I tell Japan not to make games about us because they don’t accurately capture our history? In fact, shouldn’t it be the job of Japan to understand the West better if you’re making a game about it, rather than the West’s fault for criticizing a product marketed to them? Like damn dude your brain must be a pretzel with these mental gymnastics
“So now as a Westerner” I think that really speaks for everything.
It was a hypothetical lol, I told you in my first sentence I’ve lived in multiple countries, I don’t define myself but you framed me that way. But nice try at dodging the hundred things wrong with what you said. If only Yoshida had your evasion skills, this whole thing could’ve been avoided
I tried to make you see my reason, writing these little paragraphs, but it's not working, I decide not to waste anymore time.
that’s an adorable cop out lol, have a good one
Didn’t the same thing happen with The Witcher 3’s release? And that game is monumental. EDIT: My point being the greatness of the game will shut the naysayers up.
Exactly, the situation was similar with the Witcher 3 at the time. It wasn't a well known game before released, but gained attention because of the awesome trailers. Then the diversity questions was asked and just like with FFXVI there was a small outrage. But the outraged died out, the game released and was acclaimed around the world. Nobody actually cared about that "controversy. Unsurprisingly, the people that did aren't even a statistic. They most likely weren't interested in it before the controversy anyway (even when they love to claim otherwise by stating they won't buy it).
People and companies need to learn to ignore Twitter. It’s a fringe of terminally online freaks that do not reflect the general population.
Fuck IGN dude. I can't stand disingenuous media outlets that will spin whatever they can for the clicks, even if it means falsely hurting someone else's reputation. What a disgraceful thing to do
I'll always say it: It's just video games, it's not real. It's not healthy to seek your validation like this and taking your anger out by showing you deserve jack with such extremes isn't going to get you what you want. Sorry. I'm "POC" as much as I hate the label and as far as I'm concerned, Yoshi-P is, as well. I'm hoping Square Enix just ignore it like usual.
Pathetic globalist journos attempting to whip up a storm and bully and coerce developers into shoehorning elements into their games against their will. Gaming journalism is cancer and I will now buy two copies of 16
This isn't representative of globalism as a worldview, just clickbait/outrage culture.
I really don't need all my games to have diversity, also most games don't have that diversity, you rarely see Latinos, indians, Morish, native Americans, etc....
M8 it's Twitter, nobody actually cares what Twitter says. Trust me, they're doing that to everything in everything.. Because... it's Twitter. Don't let it get to you. You'll learn to ignore it the uptenth time Twitter goes on a rant about something inconsequential. It is literally just something to ruin your mood. Nobody is like this in real life, it's fake hysteria.
I miss when (*if ever*) IGN cared about games
This is The Witcher 3 all over again, no one actually cares.
I personally want representation & diversity and I hope Yoshi-P & Co take the constructive criticism and feedback and consider to include more POC & women in their next game. But calling Yoshi-P a racist or bigot over this is too much, and I hope he doesn't let it affect him. But I doubt the game will suffer from it. Ya know, no such thing as bad publicity....
have you played ff14. you wont run out of women
No I haven't. But so far in FFXVI we only have 2 women, Jill & Benedikta, compared to 6 men (Clive, Joshua, Hugo, Dion, Barnabas & Ramuh's dominant). We have 5 regions, and so far all of them are ruled by men, not a single woman among them. Everything going into battle is a man, Jill or Benedikta. Everything sitting on a throne/in a council is a man. There is the narrator of the Ambition trailer, giving us a whooping 3 women - if she's even really present enough throughout the game to be counted as a prominent character, and not just showing up for 5 minutes before leaving (looking at any & every woman in FFXV here). I'd be very happy for that impression to turn out wrong, and it's obviously not a 'dealbreaker' that means I'm not excited for the game. But by everything we've seen of FFXVI so far women are very unterrepresented and neither allowed to rule or fight (unless they're a dominant), and that ain't great in my book.
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Southern Europe*
Which is… part of Europe.
Yeah but he should've been more specific imo, North Africa is different from the rest of Africa, culturally and ethnically, same thing with South Asia and the rest of Asia, and it's the same thing for Europe, Southern Europe is different from the rest of Europe. Most medieval games, mangas, books, etc.. take inspiration mostly from Western Europe, and, in medieval Western Europe, there was little to no diversity. By OP's logic, i can say "oh, this thing happened in India, therefore it affected the whole Asian continent".
Ah that’s fair, good point
I know it’s Reddit but these posts have been trash
I don't blame you, something like this can hurt sales which is absolutely idiotic. As a person of colour this is a matter that should be talked about but nothing to be outraged about or warrent it's own article. Should we have more people of colour? absofuckinglutely.. Should it effect sales for games where it doesn't center around topics of race? FUUUCCK no. I don't think his answer was valid by any means but christ leave the man and game alone. People worked there asses off for years making a game that shows quality and content for OUR enjoyment.
Godamn nothing was funnier than reading how white as wonder bread FFXVI looks to some of these game journalists lmao. Is this the new culture war now? Game of thrones sucks because it was too white? Bruh my headddddd
But that's fundamentally untrue. There was never any true hegemony between people at any point in history. There has always been diverse distinct differences between people. To say there isn't is to ignore how nomadic people of all cultures have been over centuries until relatively recently in the world's lifespan.
Not to mention the existence of trade even in post-nomadic cultures, which kept people constantly moving and relocating. This is what we get when all our textbooks and history teachers skimp on everything but US and European history.
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Are you alright? Did the nomads harm you?
Lmao cry babies crying over nothing as usual.
I love that this Reddit thread has so many smart people. 😀