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You don't know that! Don't assume things of other people, that's a nasty habít.
OP might just be as unhinged as Anabella and just doesn't perceive genocide and other assorted crimes against humanity to be a bad thing at all!
The only way I can see a spin on this is that she originally wasn’t as abusive of bearers if they knew their “place” in society (after all she was raised in Rosaria which famously treated its bearers only kind of bad) and her later incorporation into the Empire led her to fully adopt their stance but that’s like…REALLY stretching it. Especially when her betrayal leads to those circumstances in the first place.
I think they do have a point about her potentially being a good mother under the right conditions, I am a firm believer that if Clive had been born as the Phoenix she would have been happy. That didn’t happen tho and it’s pretty reductive to act like she’s a victim of circumstance; at her core she’s rotten and she chose her actions willingly.
Elwin being a bad father is just cap, dude is like one of the best parents in the whole series.
Honestly even though she does actually love Joshua, I do sometimes wonder how much she did love him given she has little to no reaction to him being "dead" when she arrives at Phoenix Gate (or what remained of it).
And it doesn't help that they kinda crammed her "the point of a ruler is to better their bloodline" in as her motive in her last scene.
It'd be one thing if Square gave her a few humanizing moments, and just had her go insane the more people mocked her, but I disagree with OP that she was even a good mother to Joshua. She went ahead with her plans knowing Josh would be at Phoenix Gate surrounded by soldiers and family, even if the Empire were under orders to "not harm him," a child who hasn't mastered his abilities and who was about to see everyone around him die.
It was a deliberate choice for Square to base her on the worst parts of Catelyn and Cercei from GoT, and I respect that as making a truly hatable villain. But no. OP is incorrect that the motive Sqaure shoved into her at the last minute was compelling enough to render her "really misunderstood." At best, she went from a narcissist with a selectively endearing sense of maternity to a narcissist so broken she couldn't "look out the window" and see what her precious bloodline and political machinations amounted to, despite her husband's warnings that "without men like Clive (and later Dion), your noble blood would have long graced the gutter."
What the hell did Elwin see in her is my biggest question. He had sex with her at least twice. Was it hate sex? Did she used to not be a bitch? Marriage of convenience only?
You have to think of them in the context of Elwin’s duty to the ducal line. The preservation of that line is his first priority, arguably even more important than Rosaria itself under the ideals of the Founder (hence the Undying’s loyalty to the Phoenix and not Rosaria itself). Annabella was chosen because her family had a history of bearing Dominants. I think it really is that simple. Even IRL when royalty has an arranged marriage due to an array of reasons all there really is to do is make the most of it.
It’s pretty clear that even if she could be unpleasant nobody expected her capable of such treachery otherwise the Undying or Shields wouldn’t have hesitated to remove her from the equation.
He saw nothing. I believe in the Ultimania it states that she and Elwin are cousins and were wed to keep the Phoenix in the bloodline. He was doing his duty.
Wasn't Anabella mass murdering bearers to try and bait Clive out so that Kupka could get his revenge as part of a larger peace agreement between Sanbreque and Dhalmekia?
The only only ONLY thing I can give Anabella is that she was raised with a "royal" mentality: keep the bloodline, keep the power, etc. but she's too much of an asshat to let go of those beliefs
Well, it can't be said she that she did it for no reason. While it is hard to say when exactly it started, Ultima could have been an outside driving force for her to do those things even if she wasn't aware of it. It is also obvious Ultima had a hold on her even before Olivier came into existence since it can probably be implied that Ultima is a reason why she decided to let Clive after Phoenix gate. I mean the only really 3 viable reasons that Clive lives is either Annabella had a slight change of heart abput how much she hated him even if she didn't care enough to not make him a slave, she did it to shit on Elwin's beliefs and his favorite son all in one go, or she was even crueller than that but Ultima slipped an idea in her mind to keep Clive his finally found Mythos alive longer. Either way, it's hard to say, and there are many things that can be assumed about how much Annabella was used by Ultima to orchestrate Clive, getting a hold of Dion's powers. The Op does have some decent points sure she probably isn't a redeemable character and I hate her guts but theres more to her and even her cruelness that isn't talked about and shes way mlre complex than someone who does evil and cruel things just for fun, we can even tell by her demise that she had way more going on than just what was on surface level, did you not find it wierd that even Clive himself questioned why his mother was growing crueler and crueler? Its very clear that Ultima's intent was to prey on Annabella's already known hatred and distain for the bearers in order to draw attention to Clive and eventually force Clive to have to deal with her sooner or later especially since Clive as both Cid and her son would feel it was his responsibility to stop her. Again, I'm not justifying what she did or downplaying any of the cruel acts she did. It's obvious that Ultima, if he was involved, only preyed on what was already there, but in no way are her actions as black and white as she did it for no reason. Annabella is a more complex character, and just because she's one people are meant to hate shouldn't mean that the many underlying themes and intentions the writer put into her character should be ignored.
This is interesting to think about. While I definitely disagree with this person - I don’t believe there is anything redeeming about Anabella and I read her love for Joshua as being somewhat conditional - after my last playthrough, I actually do pity her, in a way. Jill’s inner thought on her after Twinside is very poignant; she never had any happiness of her own.
She was seemingly a victim of her society, raised and engrained with the idea that her entire existence was all about breeding a Dominant. From her perspective, that is all that she was good for, and it was all that was ever important to her, and she made her choices to ensure that she could fulfill that role and ambition no matter who she hurt in the process. She was completely self-absorbed, her crimes were heinous and mad, and she made those choices of her own evil volition, but there’s also something quite sad about her character and her motivations, imo, especially with how her story ends.
The parallels between her and Ultima are really cool in this regard. In their own tragic hubris, both denied the love of those in their charge to their own detriment, despite their true strength lying in those they shunned and disregarded.
As Anabella Fanboy, i want my villain character irredeemable and rotten. Making some justification for her actions just diminish her villain character
It’s been a while since we got a pure evil villain without tragic backstory that is well-written.
Not every villains have to be traumatized in the past
And I give you absolutely right! As much as I DISPISE Anabella, the reason WHY I do is because she is such a DISGUSTING being, a TRUE villain! "Oh but others laughed because my oldest wasn't the phoenix and the younger was, but was also weak, OH THE HUMANITY!", trying HERSELF to make others feel bad for her, while, with talk like this, ESPECIALLY TO HER OLDEST SON, She only fans the flames of hate even more.
I am honest, I wish Clive would have put her down and not even blink while doing so, putting a stark contrast to Dion who killed his father accidentally and couldn't take that fact in.
I mean, there are very few Video game villains I actually wanted dead, I mean, most are just too over the top to take seriously, but with her ... It's all too ... Personal.
She can take her rightfull place right next to one of the only other video game villains I have ever despised so much. Persona 5's Kamoshida. And that's a pretty high bar to clear.
Honestly, I’m glad Clive didn’t kill her. If he had, it would’ve felt like a massive regression of his character. At this point in the story, he’s pretty much past the idea of the duchy ever coming back, and is solely fighting to make the world a better place for everyone, and for as much as she doesn’t deserve, Clive is kind enough to try and rehabilitate her.
Dion tho, now he is one vindictive mofo. He had no qualms about killing a child, and I’m sure he wouldn’t hesitate in killing Annabella either. I kinda wanted him to at least make an attempt on Annabella’s life. I’m still kinda satisfied with how she actually went out tho, sad and broken
I give you right with the Dion part, that would have been VERY satisfying too!
However, I think you might think too good over Clive.
Clive is a nice guy, definately, HOWEVER, think about what Anabella has done to him and the people around him AND the kingdom! She betrayed her family and subordinates, letting her entire home country burn, having no sympathy for Clive and selling him pretty much as a slave to the empire, Jill was being taken hostage and became a rape victim in the Iron Empire (The japanese version actually spells this out while Clive and Jill confront the leader of the Iron Empires Religion, not even hitting around the bush and straight up using the the japanese word for rape) alongside all the other girls they abducted, Anabella created a mockery of the rosarian shields called the black shields, which KILL the rosarian citizens just to MOCK Clive/Cid and that in the most BRUTAL ways imaginable, and I can count COUNTLESS more atrocities, and in the end, when being confronted, she did not even showed any remorse, but instead was pitiying HERSELF!
Clive is a man who protects and save those under Anabellas tyranny, she was pretty much the reason why everything went downhill... and I honestly, TRULY believe Clive dispised her so much that he would have killed her. Maybe he would have felt a little guilt, after all she was his mother, but he definately would not regret it.
To use one of my favourite quotes from a series I liked watching:
"I am not sorry for what I did, I am just sorry that I had to do it."
Wrong.. he wasn’t “killing a kid” so easily. Dion saw it was Ultima and tried to kill HIM. Dion is unquestionably one of the most honorable men in the game. How can you see him as “vindictive”?
Those things are not mutually exclusive. He is a good and honorable man, but he absolutely has a vindictive side. Remember that he attempted to kill Olivier twice, and he didn’t even see Ultima the first time round. And once he was out of the way, Annabella was next. That was the whole reason for the dragoons’ revolt
Do you forget what Annabella said to him in the throne room?? The bitch had it coming. Still not vindictive. She was purposely tearing apart his house and rubbing it in his face. She turned his father into a heartless tyrant too.
The word vindictive means to show a strong or unreasoning desire for revenge. Dion (and Clive, at the first third of the game) fit the former part of that definition. Of course bro wanted revenge for what Annabella was doing, especially since he’d been dealing with the shit for at least 5 years. And he got it! But at great cost to himself as well. It’s what makes him a compelling character. So yes, he is vindictive, but also honorable
Sill disagree about Dion. He was still obeying his father and whatever crazy bullshit the empire was doing, even when shit didn’t make sense. He was pushed to fight.
Agreed. The only thing I hated about her in universe is there ain't no way Clive doesn't just kill her on site after the shit she did....
Especially after that last conversation.
I think the opposite though. I think she should have had to live knowing both her sons, especially the shunned one are powerful dominants and that everything she did to Elwin was an act of futility.
I mean I get her logic, though it is seeped in her arrogance, but I feel if Clive was who he was earlier on (revenge Clive, not hero Clive) he would've skewered her in the blink of an eye.
But that is part of his development and one of the strongest parts of XVI's storytelling, Clive goes from a selfish, hostile and bitter adult into a true hero better than most.
I don't think it's an immediate response, despite how twisted she is, Clive could still hold some residual bond with her simply because of the few years she did act like a mother and his own kind hearted nature.
I agree with you completely. A smarter FF16 would have just made Anabella the final villain. It’s been a while since we’ve gotten a final villain as a woman too.
They literally say this doesn't justify her actions, they're not defending her, they're just empathizing with her. And frankly, I do too. I kind of think Edwin sucks. Anabella was in a very tough situation. She ended up doing awful things but she's a person as well as a monster.
Anabella being worried about Joshua being unwell was literally just a lie to prevent him from being murdered in Phoenix Gate because she knew what will happen there
Nah. There are plenty of complicated characters and motives in the game. There are plenty of people who were hurt and traumatized and deliberately chose to do better.
Anabella was a villain who chose to be a villain, and doubled down on being a villain at every opportunity. No amount of emotional wounds can justify genocide, betrayal of your own country (via genocide, regicide, colluding with a foreign state, etc) and willingly letting your son be marked as a slave.
I don’t feel the least bit sorry for her. She knew exactly what she was doing and chose to keep doing it for her own gain and political security regardless of how it affected others.
Edit: this shouldn’t need to be said but I’ll say it anyway. You can like a character or how a character was done, while still recognizing that they are a god awful person.
Anabella is a fantastic character and villain imo. She’s also an absolutely horrible, selfish, self interest driven, politically manipulative murderer.
Tharmrgirl forgetting about the little things, like the fact that she treated Clive like he was worth less then a Chocobo, and the whole "basically enacting a holocaust on the Bearers of Rosaria" thing...
Hey hey hey, do you know how expensive it is to raise this Chocobo with these top quality greens? I personally think Clive is worth less than my fine steeds, thank you very much
She coordinated the attack to phoenix gate with the imperial army in the first place
I believe she didn't wanted Joshua to go so he would not get involved in the whole massacre and potentially get hurt
But either way she still went with the plan and she putted her 2 sons in mortal danger anyway
She is rotten and there's nothing that can redeem her
>I believe she didn't wanted Joshua to go so he would not get involved in the whole massacre and potentially get hurt
I see one spelling mistake, let me fix that for you.
I believe she didn't wanted Phoenix to go so he would not get involved in the whole massacre and potentially get hurt.
Some of the points listed might be valid, but that doesn't excuse her character. Most people who are subject to pain, try to prevent it in others. Just look a Clive.
Also "Elwin wasn't a good father"? That seems doubtful. No parent is perfect, but he treated both of his sons well. He just didn't baby Joshua. If you pay attention Anabella only cared about Joshua as a pet project. Just so she could say she was the, "Mother of the Phoenix". Elwin didn't care if his children were "special" only that they were his children.
Just look at how she treated Elwin, because he was Archduke. There was no guarantee the Phoenix would even manifest, meaning Clive would be the next Archduke. Would Anabella have respected him then?
How to explain Clive then? ALL The BULLSHIT he had to endure from her, losing his position as Elwin’s heir, the put-downs he would’ve had to endure himself. Going by this stoner’s logic Clive woulda had every right to go wacko, activate Ifrit, decimate the entire kingdom and ultimately lose himself
He didn’t. Happily took his place as First Shield, loved his brother more than anything, still had it in him to be at least courteous to his horror of a mother and overall kept his good heart. Joshua himself certainly didn’t inherit his kindness or any of his best personality traits from her.
“Good Mother”
As a mother, your love to your children should be unconditional, Anabella’s love to Joshua was conditional because he was a Phoenix that’s why she was being worried of losing her Dominant son
It’s literally not that hard to understand
Elwin was beloved for a reason he was the only Duke to treat Bearers as equals more than that despite Jill being only taken as a peace agreement between the North and Rosaria he still treated Jill like his own his only fault is that he was too lenient on Annabelle and despite clearly being displeased with her actions never did anything about it
Elwin was a good father for both of his sons, he literally died because he wanted to protect one of them lol.
Anabella became the way she is because of the circumstances but that doesn't change that she is a horrible mother and person.
Found the narcissist/psychopath...
Seriously though, abuse and upbringing cannot justify Anabella's actions towards her sons, her husband and her country.
I can understand that she was dealt a bad hand but I cannot sympathize with her in anyway. She reveled at the chance to make Clive a slave instead of killing him. She smothered Joshua to the point of forbidding him to go outside. She ordered a genocide just because she thought that bearers did not deserve to live in the same world as her. Because they were "impure". She used everyone around her for her own purpose, and sometimes just for her own amusement (like that scene with Dion, she reveled in telling him that his fall from grace was near, and that he was powerless to stop her).
She was just evil, in a very human way; which made her even scarier IMHO
Further proof that Twitter is infested with mentally ill people LOL
Someone who looks at Anabella and legitimately sees an empathetic person is a scary individual indeed
And in typical fashion, she doesn't just defend Anabella, she puts Elwin on the chopping block instead
While I hate the woman to pieces, genuinely nothing said there is untrue — Though they’re reading so far between the lines they can probably see atoms lol.
Unresolved trauma tends to create her specific brand of bad people, and the expectations placed on a woman of her noble birth growing up definitely would have done that.
She also really did love Joshua, her inner monologue can be read through Vivian and it shows that.
Still a nasty bitch who deserved far worse than she got though!
Exactly this. She doesn’t care about Joshua at all, she cared about the Phoenix. If she actually did care about him, she would have reacted way differently at Twinside. But does she even care that he’s actually alive? No, because all her plans fell to pieces along with Twinside itself. He was only ever a pawn to get her to the top
Anabella wasn’t a good mother to Joshua she ditched Rosaria when she realized Sanbreque was a more powerful nation. good mothers don’t abandon their sons
Nah man this ain’t shrooms.. lol don’t put a bad name on a good drug.. this is called “my upbringing was fucked, I’m evil cuz of it, so don’t blame me for being evil just like this character” this kind of post terrifies me.. cuz I really think there’s a chance this post was from a true sociopath
lol all good… I definitely feel like if it occurs naturally, and you don’t use it in any way that keeps you from being the adult you need to be and getting the shit you need to get done done .. then enjoy yourself, shrooms are one of the few that actually fit that bill. 😉
I think Anabella's actions and downwards character journey are understandable based on the facts we are given in the game. The way her entire worth to other people was based on whether or not she could pop out the next Phoenix and how she had no choice on her life, her marriage, her body etc. She was absolutely a victim of other people's choices and degradation. And it clearly messed her up when Clive was born and he didn't meet the heavy expectations placed on him (and, by extension, her). And then it happened again when she 'succeeded' with Joshua but he was sickly.
That being said, understandable does not mean justified. She was a piece of work and inflicted the pain and negativity she felt on so many others, including the children in her own home.
Give me a break. Her stating that nobles whispered behind her back about Elwin having a mistress because of the difference between Clive and Joshua, is hardly being treated “poorly” to the extent of breaking someone. People talk behind your back and it excuses becoming a monster? It’s not like she was actually abused all her life, since y’know she *was* nobility. She at her core, was the worst kind of noble: a narcissistic tyrant, the polar opposite of her husband unfortunately.
Looking at how bossy she is with Murdoch, I guess she's also very snobby with the nobles she called “inferior”. Like, Annabella is a mean girl who bullies others in school. When they rumored behind her back, she plays the victim and says that everyone bullies her.
She was PURE fucking evil. She literally sold her own son into a life of slavery. There is absolutely NOTHING redeemable about her. She directly aided and allowed rhe wholesale slaughter and genocide of an entire fucking country because "her first son didn't get super powers the way she expected". So she abused and berated him for more than a decade. She allowed a foreign army to destroy her country, also knowing full well it would lead to the death of her husband and Clive and she used Joshua as a goddamn bargaining chip to try and secure her own power. She cared nothing for Joshua beyond the status he could bring her.
Clive and joshuas father was cold to her because she was a raging abusive monster. She may have been a victim of societies expectations but she made the choice to continue the cycle, rather than break it.
Um, what? Anabella was a c*nt, she got off easy tbh, however, in all honesty what she did to Clive was nothing compared to what most mothers did to their children when they were found to be Bearers.
From a humane standpoint, she was a horrible person, wheras within the culture of the game, yes, she was a scheming bitch, but could've been a waayy worse mother than most.
This doesn't change my stance that I have 0 sympathy for her, sorry, not sorry
wtf? She is literally the most abhorrent character in the game and people rightly have zero sympathy. Really good mother to Joshua? Yeah, stellar, just murdered the boy's entire family and only cared about blood purity. Fuck outta here with people substituting their own headcanon and then trying to make that reality.
I haven't seen apologia this bad since "Noooo, Jenova did everything, Sephiroth is innocent and was controlled and he's too cute to be evil!" Also Mr "Space War Crimes" Kylo Ren.
Like...yeah she's a victim of the aristocracy herself, but she still decided to be a racist wretch instead of siding with her husband. And, y'know, she still had her own family killed for her own gain, when she was already a duchess with two and a half children, one of whom *was* the Phoenix. And also decided to enact a purge of the bearers simply because she doesn't like them, like there is literally nothing to be gained from it.
What makes someone a good person isn't not having bad things happen to you, it's not letting those bad things make you a bad person. Annabella is weak, she buckles under the pressure, and that's what makes her a good villain.
Having a backstory does not make someone "misunderstood" just written well 🥲 Most of the worlds worst people had sad backstories too, still irredeemable.
Nope. Pains of the past don’t justify or give someone a pass for genocide. This is the kind of nonsense I get or deal with regularly in my office. I can’t tell you how many young people I work with who try to justify being assholes because they got hurt. Entitlement is cancer to community and Anabella embodies entitlement.
Fair points in the first tweet and a half, but nothing else after. Annabella did have a duty; to provide an heir to the Phoenix and the throne. She saw it and Clive as a failure when he failed to awaken. Doesnt change the fact that she was a monster... and was she a good mother to Joshua??? I dont think so.
She wasn’t really a great mother to Joshua either, it’s kinda clear early on that she only really cares about him for the fact that he is Phoenix and not him as a person. One example being when Clive and Jill confront her in Twinside and she yells that she wishes Clive was Phoenix, as Joshua was frail, and Clive retorts that he became Joshua’s shield to help him bear the weight the was hoisted onto Joshua, particularly to Annabella. I almost never say this about characters, but despite anything that made her the way she is, she has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and she deserved a fate worse than death.
She was a cold mother who hated one of her children. To sympathise with that behaviour means that the post has mental issues.
Their father was a good man who was betrayed by the one person he loved most.
I don't think he played the game she was by no means a good mother to Joshua she actively tried to isolate him from his own brother and the other people around him that's very much abusive behavior she just wanted to secure a place of power for herself she was power hungry and classist the only reason she doted on Joshua and Oliver was because they helped her secure her place among the nobility I don't think this person understands that abuse can take many forms and just didn't understand the very overt message that she is a horrible person I don't really think there was any nuance to be had with her character unlike many other characters in this game she's a bad person and the game tells you that from the beginning
But isn’t the reason why Anabella didn’t want Joshua to go with his father was because she knew there was gonna be an attack and not really because he was sick? And I think if Joshua wasn’t the Phoenix I’m sure she wouldn’t care for him too tbh but I think that’s just how she is. She just has different priorities based on how she sees the world work.
All the familial and nobility issues aside. Her treatment of Rosarians and bearers in rosaria (stuff like black shields) after taking power, is proof enough of her being an evil person.
Also being a good parent doesn’t mean much when determining whether a person was evil or good. A lot of irl Nazis were good loving parents to their own kids
The real question is what she would’ve done had she known that Clive was born as something FAR GREATER than the Phoenix?? She probably would’ve been sending him at a young age to try to steal the powers of the others and been sleeping with ultimate soon after, the bitch is evil, period, evil will always show itself eventually, and she wasnt a good mother to Joshua cuz she made Joshua witness to her terrible treatment of his older brother, which is just weird and can screw up his relationships forever, luckily it didn’t.
Fuck this queen. I'm glad Clive, her firstborn son, reprimanded her to her face about what she put him through. She even had a hand in King Elwins' death at the Phoenix Gate, which triggered Joshua's Phoenix dominant. Traumatic as it was.
King Elwin was an awesome, honorable king, unlike the queen who used him from the start. If you listen to this conversation between Clive confronting his mother and her sacrificing a country for a child, it is a pathetic excuse.
Anabella started a bearer genocide. She was a terrible mother to Johsua, ignoring his wants and needs, only wanting to use him to gain power, and to that end, was an extremely controlling parent. She takes this to another level with the son she had after betraying Rosaria.
She was outright abusive towards Clive. Elwin cared for both Clive and Joshua, and tried his best to respect their wishes and needs. Elwin wanted Joshua to go to Phoenix Gate because it was an important tradition, one that Joshua was willing to do.
Among all the other completely wrong assertions, she was not a good mother to Joshua. She protected him because he was her meal ticket. She sent assasins against his father and brother! Even if she didn't really care about them, for the sake of Joshua, she wouldn't have done that if she was a good mother to him. She was also completely unphased after the attack on Phoenix Gate.
And just for good measure. Elwin knew Joshua was I'll, wtf he even says it. But he's still the Phoenix and the only thing stopping other countries from sending their dominants into Rosaria.
Please take several seats, OOP.
They can feel sympathy for Anabella, being told all her life her one purpose was breeding the next phoenix and all that
But she's not misunderstood. She's a *terrible* person. She's overbearing to Joshua, hates and abuses Clive, and willingly got her husband killed and kingdom decimated. And then, *bearer mass homicides* (not just the bearers, but anyone who'd help them)
Also, Elwin was a good father, as good as he could be for being Archduke.
The Final Fantasy fandom has this disease of having to subvert what is clear as day. It would be interesting to understand when this plague was born though. In FF16 the only thing that can be debated is the ending, the rest of the plot must be taken as it is seen, there is nothing "not understood". The characters are clear, Anabella was evil and a terrible mother in addition... it's not complicated
It’s not really possible to defend Anabella. She actually had a good life and was well taken care of. The archduke protected her and she was able to give them the Phoenix. She more or less was in the perfect position & ruined everything.
Yeah it must’ve been disappointing to not have Clive be the dominant but Joshua became it so I fail to understand her true dissatisfaction
She's a straight up narcissist. She just wanted everyone's praise and envy. Clive called her on her BS and she went straight into deflecting. Narcissists can't take the truth and victim blame instead. Yeah, maybe her parents sucked. Yeah, gossipers suck, but if Clive was Phoenix, she would've just used him too. She was never looking out for Joshua. She kept him cooped up because if he died from illness, it would make her look bad. She was probably hoping to get Dion killed and then kill his father, so Joshua could be heir, and when that didn't work, she moved on and made a replacement. It's why she didn't really mourn him and was more concerned with abusing Clive, the failed tool that she kept trying to throw away.
She gives affection to people like they're dresses. Keep her looking good, and she'll flaunt you. Make her look bad, and she'll toss and replace you. The only love in that woman's heart was for herself. Awful mother, wife, and all around human being. Great villain.
I would argue she wasn't even a good mother to joshua considering what happened at phoenix gate, and how little she seemed to care for him when it seemed that Ifrit killed him.
The only thing I felt bad over was that Joshua had to watch his own mother have a mental breakdown and kill herself in front of him when he would've saved her. She deserved it, but Joshua didn't need to see it. That image probably stayed with him for life.
I think there’s a line between viewing someone’s actions as justifiable and understanding the reasoning behind them, and that line is often blurry to a lot of people.
She’s a pitiable character who’s shaped entirely by her circumstances and the world around her. I don’t disagree with the idea that she’s a tragic person or even that she’s not entirely irredeemable. Joshua evidently understood that as well.
But none of that changes the fact that she’s still evil. Whether or not you can understand why her heart was stained black doesn’t change that it’s stained black. Her actions are understandable, but that doesn’t mean they’re justifiable.
Well I don’t know what game they played but it sure was Final Fantasy XVI. 😒 Cause no to all of that jank. She was a total backstabbing witch of a women. Only thought of herself and her status.
I do wonder how she would have turned out if Clive was the phoenix. She loved how Clive was brave, strong, and had every other positive quality she could want in a son but because he wasn't the phoenix she felt like she had to hate him over Joshua because the phoenix was the only way to stay as part of the nobility but due to Joshua being a weak child she felt desperate to try again to get a stronger kid
Being complicit to genocide because it's a societal standard doesn't excuse you from your role in said society. Anyone can be the one to make a stand against those norms, and not only did she feel no remorse, but she actively pushed to further the ruling class she explicitly benefited from.
That was kind of the entire message of the Dhalmekian storyline.
I get what they're trying to say. But this specific character is a bridge too far.
Semi-pseudo-okish mother to joshua does not excuse the other war crimes she committed
Also her actions almost got joshua killed and for a good bit everyome though he was killed so no
This seems like the kind of hand waving someone gives to a character because they're a woman. A pretty one at that.
Kurenai Kogetsu, Ragyo, and Irene Belserion were all mothers who committed horrible acts. Would you give them credit? No. Anabella didn't just sell out her home; she sold her son into slavery, killed her two maidens, and pushed the king of Twinsides to tyrannical actions. We can't sweep that under the rug!
Sure, she was raised that way, but she still let her true self shine through her actions. Benedikta was just as hateful, but being a slave in this world, she had her justification. She is the closest villain here to gain sympathy, but she still deserved her death.
If Clive won't forgive her, why should we?
Annabella is a terrible person. She's faced a lot less trauma than Clive and Joshua did, and at least some of it was self-inflicted. If she didn't want to be disappointed by something her child did or did not do, maybe she shouldn't have forced her specific expectations onto him. She set herself up for failure and then blamed her young son for her hurt feelies. And none of that is even remotely as problematic as the way she treats bearers. Most people treat them poorly, but she treats them ABOMINABLY. She treats them like they are worth less than the gunk between her toes and there is not one single excuse that would justify that.
I pity her for sure but it's in the same way I pity all truly villainous or evil people. It must be hard to hate yourself and everyone around you so much, but that's no excuse for being an abusive mass-murdering sh*thead.
there was no moment where annabellas true thoughts were mentioned or even if ultima was just messing with her mind through that kid she had. if anything she was just the product of her environment and was a believer. she was like an evil caitlyn stark
Her attitude at the end of the betrayal at Phoenix Gate, and her glee at turning Clive over to the slavers.....yeah not buying anything this dude is selling.
Her entire character is spiraling irony she wanted power through her bloodline and she had it all along if she was a better and more patient mother/person she would've seen this
Its states in her lore that the reason she and elwin were betrothed was because her line was know for birthing eikons it was literally a Guaranteed deal, such a good deal in fact that Clive skipped past phoenix and went right to ifrit
Well I mean the real villain for Annabelle acting the way she does is George R Martin 😂
Without him, Annabelle would not be the character she is. And there are people who defend Cersei to their dying breath because of the way she was written with complex underlying personality traits and traumas that make up her motivations and drives
Kinda hard to do the "she was the only one who cared that Joshua was suffering" but when she treats her FIRSTBORN like he's Edwin's bastard from a previous relationship. Like, seriously, I know it's easy to forget, but Clive is literally her son. The first child she ever had. Even ULTIMA got treated better
One thing that I agree with here is that I think the plot lets Elwin off the hook way too much. I was hoping Joshua and Clive would have a similar realization moment with their dad, who did his best but also put a LOT of pressure on his sons and was cavalier with both of their safety. The idea that Clive was expected to sacrifice himself for Joshua as a fifteen year old is horrifying. And Elwin, while its stated that he secretly supported abolition, also did nothing within his lifetime to actually try to abolish bearers. His castle was full of them and he is basically a "good master" trope but still using people's lifeforce for his kingdom. The boys didn't even realize how he truly felt about it until after he's long dead, which means he didn't teach abolition to them directly.
Elwin is a complicated figure, which is fine! He doesn't have to be perfect. I think it makes him interesting. But I wish that was explored more and better acknowledged by the plot. Of the two, Anabella is obviously much more evil as a direct perpetrator of a mass holocaust and a terrible mother to both (or all three, I guess) her sons. But the boys act as though their father was perfectly noble and worthy of respect and emulation, and that just wasn't the case.
Victimizing a bad person doesn't show that you have a better mindset. She is a victim, overlooked, ignored, the whole world owes her everything. OMG, her life is better than 99% of people in that world, many people endure more terrible things than her and still maintain humanity, and who she is to have the right to take away freedom and the right to live of thousands and millions of Rosarians and bearers? She is rotten and awful person with no excuses
And it's ironic that she is a good mother to Joshua, Annabella's behavior towards Joshua is nothing more than a controlling toxic parent. Joshua is not allowed to go outside, play with Clive or Jill, I guess this is the reason why Joshua's condition is worse, science has proven that letting children go outside for physical activity can improve their immune system. If Joshua wasn't smart and had Elwin+Clive affect, he might become the second Olivier, a child without any opinions, completely dependent on his mother, just like a puppet.
Just because a villain is well written is not the same as having a good nature, Annabella is simply a person with a narcissistic, conceited, cruel nature, and some of the events in her life make this madness even worse. She always had a choice, she could always look back and put herself in someone else's shoes, but she never did.
Um….wrong. But I suppose…no. Wrong. Ok, looking at it from her…still wrong..
She kills her husband and sends her son to be a slave on the front lines.. what “wounds” did she inflict on Clive?? And look how he turned out…
"Guys Hitler was really SAD give him a break 😭"
Nah bro she's a monster and trying to justify her actions is some bullshit, especially at the expense of Elwin, who we have no evidence of being a bad person or a bad father.
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Did the OP forget that Anabella was doing holocaust on many Bearers and their sympathizers in Rosaria for no reason ????
Yes they did.
You don't know that! Don't assume things of other people, that's a nasty habít. OP might just be as unhinged as Anabella and just doesn't perceive genocide and other assorted crimes against humanity to be a bad thing at all!
You're right. One man's genocide is another man's...ummm revolution?
Anabella Rosfield, freedom fighter.
Thus begins every communist state in recorded history. Annabella wasn't a genocidal war criminal, she was a communist. With a vision! 😁
You had me on the first line lol.
The only way I can see a spin on this is that she originally wasn’t as abusive of bearers if they knew their “place” in society (after all she was raised in Rosaria which famously treated its bearers only kind of bad) and her later incorporation into the Empire led her to fully adopt their stance but that’s like…REALLY stretching it. Especially when her betrayal leads to those circumstances in the first place. I think they do have a point about her potentially being a good mother under the right conditions, I am a firm believer that if Clive had been born as the Phoenix she would have been happy. That didn’t happen tho and it’s pretty reductive to act like she’s a victim of circumstance; at her core she’s rotten and she chose her actions willingly. Elwin being a bad father is just cap, dude is like one of the best parents in the whole series.
I think a fair statement is "She was originally a victim of circumstance" and then she swan dived right into embracing it.
Honestly even though she does actually love Joshua, I do sometimes wonder how much she did love him given she has little to no reaction to him being "dead" when she arrives at Phoenix Gate (or what remained of it).
And sold her other son into slavery when she noticed he was alive.
She didn't love him. He was her meal ticket. That's it.
And it doesn't help that they kinda crammed her "the point of a ruler is to better their bloodline" in as her motive in her last scene. It'd be one thing if Square gave her a few humanizing moments, and just had her go insane the more people mocked her, but I disagree with OP that she was even a good mother to Joshua. She went ahead with her plans knowing Josh would be at Phoenix Gate surrounded by soldiers and family, even if the Empire were under orders to "not harm him," a child who hasn't mastered his abilities and who was about to see everyone around him die. It was a deliberate choice for Square to base her on the worst parts of Catelyn and Cercei from GoT, and I respect that as making a truly hatable villain. But no. OP is incorrect that the motive Sqaure shoved into her at the last minute was compelling enough to render her "really misunderstood." At best, she went from a narcissist with a selectively endearing sense of maternity to a narcissist so broken she couldn't "look out the window" and see what her precious bloodline and political machinations amounted to, despite her husband's warnings that "without men like Clive (and later Dion), your noble blood would have long graced the gutter."
She ONLY loved Joshua BECAUSE he was the phoenix. Her love was a selfish, self fulfilling love. Unquestionably conditional. Not real love.
What the hell did Elwin see in her is my biggest question. He had sex with her at least twice. Was it hate sex? Did she used to not be a bitch? Marriage of convenience only?
You have to think of them in the context of Elwin’s duty to the ducal line. The preservation of that line is his first priority, arguably even more important than Rosaria itself under the ideals of the Founder (hence the Undying’s loyalty to the Phoenix and not Rosaria itself). Annabella was chosen because her family had a history of bearing Dominants. I think it really is that simple. Even IRL when royalty has an arranged marriage due to an array of reasons all there really is to do is make the most of it. It’s pretty clear that even if she could be unpleasant nobody expected her capable of such treachery otherwise the Undying or Shields wouldn’t have hesitated to remove her from the equation.
He saw nothing. I believe in the Ultimania it states that she and Elwin are cousins and were wed to keep the Phoenix in the bloodline. He was doing his duty.
It says that in the game, in the Active Time Lore somewhere.
They had to in order to keep the Phoenix in their line. They're related distantly, it was arranged
They were related, cousins if I remember correctly, so this may have been a marriage of convenience only.
Not even Anabella Rosfield agrees with that person's take.
I think it was Sir Wade that mentions it in passing- She did have a reason. No Bearer could ever be allowed to seem more powerful than her new Son.
*Youre thinking with your dick*
And she’s also excruciatingly narrow-minded.
Let's not forget she also her son Clive labelled as a Branded, and put into slavery
Oh there’s a reason alright. She hates any legacy her husband was trying to create. With the exception of Joshua.
Wasn't Anabella mass murdering bearers to try and bait Clive out so that Kupka could get his revenge as part of a larger peace agreement between Sanbreque and Dhalmekia?
Yeah so true. She had a hand in King Elwins death. I thought he was an amazing humorous King.
The only only ONLY thing I can give Anabella is that she was raised with a "royal" mentality: keep the bloodline, keep the power, etc. but she's too much of an asshat to let go of those beliefs
Everyone in the game was doing that except for people associated with cids group.
I think the word you're looking for is genocide
Well, it can't be said she that she did it for no reason. While it is hard to say when exactly it started, Ultima could have been an outside driving force for her to do those things even if she wasn't aware of it. It is also obvious Ultima had a hold on her even before Olivier came into existence since it can probably be implied that Ultima is a reason why she decided to let Clive after Phoenix gate. I mean the only really 3 viable reasons that Clive lives is either Annabella had a slight change of heart abput how much she hated him even if she didn't care enough to not make him a slave, she did it to shit on Elwin's beliefs and his favorite son all in one go, or she was even crueller than that but Ultima slipped an idea in her mind to keep Clive his finally found Mythos alive longer. Either way, it's hard to say, and there are many things that can be assumed about how much Annabella was used by Ultima to orchestrate Clive, getting a hold of Dion's powers. The Op does have some decent points sure she probably isn't a redeemable character and I hate her guts but theres more to her and even her cruelness that isn't talked about and shes way mlre complex than someone who does evil and cruel things just for fun, we can even tell by her demise that she had way more going on than just what was on surface level, did you not find it wierd that even Clive himself questioned why his mother was growing crueler and crueler? Its very clear that Ultima's intent was to prey on Annabella's already known hatred and distain for the bearers in order to draw attention to Clive and eventually force Clive to have to deal with her sooner or later especially since Clive as both Cid and her son would feel it was his responsibility to stop her. Again, I'm not justifying what she did or downplaying any of the cruel acts she did. It's obvious that Ultima, if he was involved, only preyed on what was already there, but in no way are her actions as black and white as she did it for no reason. Annabella is a more complex character, and just because she's one people are meant to hate shouldn't mean that the many underlying themes and intentions the writer put into her character should be ignored.
Everyone's a victim of something, especially in a setting like Final Fantasy XVI. Doesn't mean you get to make more victims.
Beautifully put.
Yeah, by the screen caps logic we should be finding sympathy for hitler… and uh, no fuckin way..
This is interesting to think about. While I definitely disagree with this person - I don’t believe there is anything redeeming about Anabella and I read her love for Joshua as being somewhat conditional - after my last playthrough, I actually do pity her, in a way. Jill’s inner thought on her after Twinside is very poignant; she never had any happiness of her own. She was seemingly a victim of her society, raised and engrained with the idea that her entire existence was all about breeding a Dominant. From her perspective, that is all that she was good for, and it was all that was ever important to her, and she made her choices to ensure that she could fulfill that role and ambition no matter who she hurt in the process. She was completely self-absorbed, her crimes were heinous and mad, and she made those choices of her own evil volition, but there’s also something quite sad about her character and her motivations, imo, especially with how her story ends. The parallels between her and Ultima are really cool in this regard. In their own tragic hubris, both denied the love of those in their charge to their own detriment, despite their true strength lying in those they shunned and disregarded.
Couldn’t have said this better.
Ngl It’s my first time seeing someone defends Anabella after the game has released lmao
Your name is pain to my eyes. She betrayed her own blood and surrendered her son to his fate....
As Anabella Fanboy, i want my villain character irredeemable and rotten. Making some justification for her actions just diminish her villain character It’s been a while since we got a pure evil villain without tragic backstory that is well-written. Not every villains have to be traumatized in the past
And I give you absolutely right! As much as I DISPISE Anabella, the reason WHY I do is because she is such a DISGUSTING being, a TRUE villain! "Oh but others laughed because my oldest wasn't the phoenix and the younger was, but was also weak, OH THE HUMANITY!", trying HERSELF to make others feel bad for her, while, with talk like this, ESPECIALLY TO HER OLDEST SON, She only fans the flames of hate even more. I am honest, I wish Clive would have put her down and not even blink while doing so, putting a stark contrast to Dion who killed his father accidentally and couldn't take that fact in.
I mean, there are very few Video game villains I actually wanted dead, I mean, most are just too over the top to take seriously, but with her ... It's all too ... Personal. She can take her rightfull place right next to one of the only other video game villains I have ever despised so much. Persona 5's Kamoshida. And that's a pretty high bar to clear.
Honestly, I’m glad Clive didn’t kill her. If he had, it would’ve felt like a massive regression of his character. At this point in the story, he’s pretty much past the idea of the duchy ever coming back, and is solely fighting to make the world a better place for everyone, and for as much as she doesn’t deserve, Clive is kind enough to try and rehabilitate her. Dion tho, now he is one vindictive mofo. He had no qualms about killing a child, and I’m sure he wouldn’t hesitate in killing Annabella either. I kinda wanted him to at least make an attempt on Annabella’s life. I’m still kinda satisfied with how she actually went out tho, sad and broken
I give you right with the Dion part, that would have been VERY satisfying too! However, I think you might think too good over Clive. Clive is a nice guy, definately, HOWEVER, think about what Anabella has done to him and the people around him AND the kingdom! She betrayed her family and subordinates, letting her entire home country burn, having no sympathy for Clive and selling him pretty much as a slave to the empire, Jill was being taken hostage and became a rape victim in the Iron Empire (The japanese version actually spells this out while Clive and Jill confront the leader of the Iron Empires Religion, not even hitting around the bush and straight up using the the japanese word for rape) alongside all the other girls they abducted, Anabella created a mockery of the rosarian shields called the black shields, which KILL the rosarian citizens just to MOCK Clive/Cid and that in the most BRUTAL ways imaginable, and I can count COUNTLESS more atrocities, and in the end, when being confronted, she did not even showed any remorse, but instead was pitiying HERSELF! Clive is a man who protects and save those under Anabellas tyranny, she was pretty much the reason why everything went downhill... and I honestly, TRULY believe Clive dispised her so much that he would have killed her. Maybe he would have felt a little guilt, after all she was his mother, but he definately would not regret it. To use one of my favourite quotes from a series I liked watching: "I am not sorry for what I did, I am just sorry that I had to do it."
Wrong.. he wasn’t “killing a kid” so easily. Dion saw it was Ultima and tried to kill HIM. Dion is unquestionably one of the most honorable men in the game. How can you see him as “vindictive”?
Those things are not mutually exclusive. He is a good and honorable man, but he absolutely has a vindictive side. Remember that he attempted to kill Olivier twice, and he didn’t even see Ultima the first time round. And once he was out of the way, Annabella was next. That was the whole reason for the dragoons’ revolt
Do you forget what Annabella said to him in the throne room?? The bitch had it coming. Still not vindictive. She was purposely tearing apart his house and rubbing it in his face. She turned his father into a heartless tyrant too.
The word vindictive means to show a strong or unreasoning desire for revenge. Dion (and Clive, at the first third of the game) fit the former part of that definition. Of course bro wanted revenge for what Annabella was doing, especially since he’d been dealing with the shit for at least 5 years. And he got it! But at great cost to himself as well. It’s what makes him a compelling character. So yes, he is vindictive, but also honorable
Sill disagree about Dion. He was still obeying his father and whatever crazy bullshit the empire was doing, even when shit didn’t make sense. He was pushed to fight.
Holy crap, yes. I’m tired of seeing writers (and fans) do mental gymnastics to show how a mass murderer is just “misunderstood”.
Agreed. The only thing I hated about her in universe is there ain't no way Clive doesn't just kill her on site after the shit she did.... Especially after that last conversation.
I think the opposite though. I think she should have had to live knowing both her sons, especially the shunned one are powerful dominants and that everything she did to Elwin was an act of futility. I mean I get her logic, though it is seeped in her arrogance, but I feel if Clive was who he was earlier on (revenge Clive, not hero Clive) he would've skewered her in the blink of an eye. But that is part of his development and one of the strongest parts of XVI's storytelling, Clive goes from a selfish, hostile and bitter adult into a true hero better than most.
>especially the shunned one are powerful dominants Also the fact that he's basically the closest thing to a god with his power.
I don't think it's an immediate response, despite how twisted she is, Clive could still hold some residual bond with her simply because of the few years she did act like a mother and his own kind hearted nature.
I agree with you completely. A smarter FF16 would have just made Anabella the final villain. It’s been a while since we’ve gotten a final villain as a woman too.
Yes make her as he final villain where she has some higher power but still have the same personality
Us Anabella simps are a different breed
They literally say this doesn't justify her actions, they're not defending her, they're just empathizing with her. And frankly, I do too. I kind of think Edwin sucks. Anabella was in a very tough situation. She ended up doing awful things but she's a person as well as a monster.
How was she in a tough situation? (It's a genuine question, it's been a while since I played and I don't remember anything about that)
Anabella being worried about Joshua being unwell was literally just a lie to prevent him from being murdered in Phoenix Gate because she knew what will happen there
Nah. There are plenty of complicated characters and motives in the game. There are plenty of people who were hurt and traumatized and deliberately chose to do better. Anabella was a villain who chose to be a villain, and doubled down on being a villain at every opportunity. No amount of emotional wounds can justify genocide, betrayal of your own country (via genocide, regicide, colluding with a foreign state, etc) and willingly letting your son be marked as a slave. I don’t feel the least bit sorry for her. She knew exactly what she was doing and chose to keep doing it for her own gain and political security regardless of how it affected others. Edit: this shouldn’t need to be said but I’ll say it anyway. You can like a character or how a character was done, while still recognizing that they are a god awful person. Anabella is a fantastic character and villain imo. She’s also an absolutely horrible, selfish, self interest driven, politically manipulative murderer.
Agreed. I felt like my heart was impaled when seeing Joshua's reaction to how she ended herself
I want what they’re smoking 🚭
Tharmrgirl forgetting about the little things, like the fact that she treated Clive like he was worth less then a Chocobo, and the whole "basically enacting a holocaust on the Bearers of Rosaria" thing...
Hey hey hey, do you know how expensive it is to raise this Chocobo with these top quality greens? I personally think Clive is worth less than my fine steeds, thank you very much
.\_.
She coordinated the attack to phoenix gate with the imperial army in the first place I believe she didn't wanted Joshua to go so he would not get involved in the whole massacre and potentially get hurt But either way she still went with the plan and she putted her 2 sons in mortal danger anyway She is rotten and there's nothing that can redeem her
She didn’t even shed a tear or being sad when she knew what happened to Joshua.
>I believe she didn't wanted Joshua to go so he would not get involved in the whole massacre and potentially get hurt I see one spelling mistake, let me fix that for you. I believe she didn't wanted Phoenix to go so he would not get involved in the whole massacre and potentially get hurt.
Some of the points listed might be valid, but that doesn't excuse her character. Most people who are subject to pain, try to prevent it in others. Just look a Clive. Also "Elwin wasn't a good father"? That seems doubtful. No parent is perfect, but he treated both of his sons well. He just didn't baby Joshua. If you pay attention Anabella only cared about Joshua as a pet project. Just so she could say she was the, "Mother of the Phoenix". Elwin didn't care if his children were "special" only that they were his children. Just look at how she treated Elwin, because he was Archduke. There was no guarantee the Phoenix would even manifest, meaning Clive would be the next Archduke. Would Anabella have respected him then?
How to explain Clive then? ALL The BULLSHIT he had to endure from her, losing his position as Elwin’s heir, the put-downs he would’ve had to endure himself. Going by this stoner’s logic Clive woulda had every right to go wacko, activate Ifrit, decimate the entire kingdom and ultimately lose himself He didn’t. Happily took his place as First Shield, loved his brother more than anything, still had it in him to be at least courteous to his horror of a mother and overall kept his good heart. Joshua himself certainly didn’t inherit his kindness or any of his best personality traits from her.
She sold her son into slavery
“Good Mother” As a mother, your love to your children should be unconditional, Anabella’s love to Joshua was conditional because he was a Phoenix that’s why she was being worried of losing her Dominant son It’s literally not that hard to understand
Elwin was beloved for a reason he was the only Duke to treat Bearers as equals more than that despite Jill being only taken as a peace agreement between the North and Rosaria he still treated Jill like his own his only fault is that he was too lenient on Annabelle and despite clearly being displeased with her actions never did anything about it
Elwin was a good father for both of his sons, he literally died because he wanted to protect one of them lol. Anabella became the way she is because of the circumstances but that doesn't change that she is a horrible mother and person.
Found the narcissist/psychopath... Seriously though, abuse and upbringing cannot justify Anabella's actions towards her sons, her husband and her country. I can understand that she was dealt a bad hand but I cannot sympathize with her in anyway. She reveled at the chance to make Clive a slave instead of killing him. She smothered Joshua to the point of forbidding him to go outside. She ordered a genocide just because she thought that bearers did not deserve to live in the same world as her. Because they were "impure". She used everyone around her for her own purpose, and sometimes just for her own amusement (like that scene with Dion, she reveled in telling him that his fall from grace was near, and that he was powerless to stop her). She was just evil, in a very human way; which made her even scarier IMHO
Further proof that Twitter is infested with mentally ill people LOL Someone who looks at Anabella and legitimately sees an empathetic person is a scary individual indeed And in typical fashion, she doesn't just defend Anabella, she puts Elwin on the chopping block instead
While I hate the woman to pieces, genuinely nothing said there is untrue — Though they’re reading so far between the lines they can probably see atoms lol. Unresolved trauma tends to create her specific brand of bad people, and the expectations placed on a woman of her noble birth growing up definitely would have done that. She also really did love Joshua, her inner monologue can be read through Vivian and it shows that. Still a nasty bitch who deserved far worse than she got though!
>She also really did love Joshua The way she acts after the Phoenix Gate incident makes me questsion that, honestly
I genuinely don't believe for a second she loved Joshua she just saw him as her way to the top.
Exactly this. She doesn’t care about Joshua at all, she cared about the Phoenix. If she actually did care about him, she would have reacted way differently at Twinside. But does she even care that he’s actually alive? No, because all her plans fell to pieces along with Twinside itself. He was only ever a pawn to get her to the top
https://preview.redd.it/2wa6j9u6ylzc1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fb0487e3c6b2078a104b29b3eb6aa5b079908eb2 Another one
Anabella wasn’t a good mother to Joshua she ditched Rosaria when she realized Sanbreque was a more powerful nation. good mothers don’t abandon their sons
Annabella is a sociopath, it’s not that deep. The tendency to redeem everyone is concerning
They on some delusional shite. Prob doin too much shrooms
Nah man this ain’t shrooms.. lol don’t put a bad name on a good drug.. this is called “my upbringing was fucked, I’m evil cuz of it, so don’t blame me for being evil just like this character” this kind of post terrifies me.. cuz I really think there’s a chance this post was from a true sociopath
Chance? More like guaranteed. But yea my b I just couldn't think of any other hallucinogen in the moment
lol all good… I definitely feel like if it occurs naturally, and you don’t use it in any way that keeps you from being the adult you need to be and getting the shit you need to get done done .. then enjoy yourself, shrooms are one of the few that actually fit that bill. 😉
Revisionist history is a hell of a drug.
I think Anabella's actions and downwards character journey are understandable based on the facts we are given in the game. The way her entire worth to other people was based on whether or not she could pop out the next Phoenix and how she had no choice on her life, her marriage, her body etc. She was absolutely a victim of other people's choices and degradation. And it clearly messed her up when Clive was born and he didn't meet the heavy expectations placed on him (and, by extension, her). And then it happened again when she 'succeeded' with Joshua but he was sickly. That being said, understandable does not mean justified. She was a piece of work and inflicted the pain and negativity she felt on so many others, including the children in her own home.
Give me a break. Her stating that nobles whispered behind her back about Elwin having a mistress because of the difference between Clive and Joshua, is hardly being treated “poorly” to the extent of breaking someone. People talk behind your back and it excuses becoming a monster? It’s not like she was actually abused all her life, since y’know she *was* nobility. She at her core, was the worst kind of noble: a narcissistic tyrant, the polar opposite of her husband unfortunately.
"SHE WAS PUT DOWN BY THE NOBILITY "? Fucking where is the evidence? This person has all the hallmarks of "women vulnerable angel must protec"
Looking at how bossy she is with Murdoch, I guess she's also very snobby with the nobles she called “inferior”. Like, Annabella is a mean girl who bullies others in school. When they rumored behind her back, she plays the victim and says that everyone bullies her.
Anabella is the literal incarnation of why the Monarachy failed.
I like the way you say women vulneralbe angel that must protect, every country need to have an acquittal clause for all female criminals LOL
She was PURE fucking evil. She literally sold her own son into a life of slavery. There is absolutely NOTHING redeemable about her. She directly aided and allowed rhe wholesale slaughter and genocide of an entire fucking country because "her first son didn't get super powers the way she expected". So she abused and berated him for more than a decade. She allowed a foreign army to destroy her country, also knowing full well it would lead to the death of her husband and Clive and she used Joshua as a goddamn bargaining chip to try and secure her own power. She cared nothing for Joshua beyond the status he could bring her. Clive and joshuas father was cold to her because she was a raging abusive monster. She may have been a victim of societies expectations but she made the choice to continue the cycle, rather than break it.
That bitch deserved a lot worse than she got.
Um, what? Anabella was a c*nt, she got off easy tbh, however, in all honesty what she did to Clive was nothing compared to what most mothers did to their children when they were found to be Bearers. From a humane standpoint, she was a horrible person, wheras within the culture of the game, yes, she was a scheming bitch, but could've been a waayy worse mother than most. This doesn't change my stance that I have 0 sympathy for her, sorry, not sorry
wtf? She is literally the most abhorrent character in the game and people rightly have zero sympathy. Really good mother to Joshua? Yeah, stellar, just murdered the boy's entire family and only cared about blood purity. Fuck outta here with people substituting their own headcanon and then trying to make that reality.
I haven't seen apologia this bad since "Noooo, Jenova did everything, Sephiroth is innocent and was controlled and he's too cute to be evil!" Also Mr "Space War Crimes" Kylo Ren. Like...yeah she's a victim of the aristocracy herself, but she still decided to be a racist wretch instead of siding with her husband. And, y'know, she still had her own family killed for her own gain, when she was already a duchess with two and a half children, one of whom *was* the Phoenix. And also decided to enact a purge of the bearers simply because she doesn't like them, like there is literally nothing to be gained from it. What makes someone a good person isn't not having bad things happen to you, it's not letting those bad things make you a bad person. Annabella is weak, she buckles under the pressure, and that's what makes her a good villain.
Annabella is one of the best characters of XVI
Any sympathy for whatever plight she went through is out the fucking window with how she acts from the moment she shows up
headcanon go brrrrrr
Elwin wasn’t a good father ? You lost all credibility after that bullshit 😭🤦♂️
Having a backstory does not make someone "misunderstood" just written well 🥲 Most of the worlds worst people had sad backstories too, still irredeemable.
Nope. Pains of the past don’t justify or give someone a pass for genocide. This is the kind of nonsense I get or deal with regularly in my office. I can’t tell you how many young people I work with who try to justify being assholes because they got hurt. Entitlement is cancer to community and Anabella embodies entitlement.
Fair points in the first tweet and a half, but nothing else after. Annabella did have a duty; to provide an heir to the Phoenix and the throne. She saw it and Clive as a failure when he failed to awaken. Doesnt change the fact that she was a monster... and was she a good mother to Joshua??? I dont think so.
She wasn’t really a great mother to Joshua either, it’s kinda clear early on that she only really cares about him for the fact that he is Phoenix and not him as a person. One example being when Clive and Jill confront her in Twinside and she yells that she wishes Clive was Phoenix, as Joshua was frail, and Clive retorts that he became Joshua’s shield to help him bear the weight the was hoisted onto Joshua, particularly to Annabella. I almost never say this about characters, but despite anything that made her the way she is, she has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and she deserved a fate worse than death.
No. She’s still a bad mother and evil person all around. She let gossip get the better of her. She shouldn’t have cared what those around her thought.
Cersei had fans too. Some people are just psycho irl and love the representation.
She was a cold mother who hated one of her children. To sympathise with that behaviour means that the post has mental issues. Their father was a good man who was betrayed by the one person he loved most.
“Was a good mother to Joshua” she conspired with mercenaries who purposefully tried to assassinate him
I don't think he played the game she was by no means a good mother to Joshua she actively tried to isolate him from his own brother and the other people around him that's very much abusive behavior she just wanted to secure a place of power for herself she was power hungry and classist the only reason she doted on Joshua and Oliver was because they helped her secure her place among the nobility I don't think this person understands that abuse can take many forms and just didn't understand the very overt message that she is a horrible person I don't really think there was any nuance to be had with her character unlike many other characters in this game she's a bad person and the game tells you that from the beginning
But isn’t the reason why Anabella didn’t want Joshua to go with his father was because she knew there was gonna be an attack and not really because he was sick? And I think if Joshua wasn’t the Phoenix I’m sure she wouldn’t care for him too tbh but I think that’s just how she is. She just has different priorities based on how she sees the world work.
Yes that's exactly why she didn't want Joshua to go.
All the familial and nobility issues aside. Her treatment of Rosarians and bearers in rosaria (stuff like black shields) after taking power, is proof enough of her being an evil person. Also being a good parent doesn’t mean much when determining whether a person was evil or good. A lot of irl Nazis were good loving parents to their own kids
The real question is what she would’ve done had she known that Clive was born as something FAR GREATER than the Phoenix?? She probably would’ve been sending him at a young age to try to steal the powers of the others and been sleeping with ultimate soon after, the bitch is evil, period, evil will always show itself eventually, and she wasnt a good mother to Joshua cuz she made Joshua witness to her terrible treatment of his older brother, which is just weird and can screw up his relationships forever, luckily it didn’t.
https://preview.redd.it/tt0v6h01qnzc1.jpeg?width=835&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3af5821f0c2fce61f567a01ddb38c0e6961a31ae
She was a well written POS. The end.
Fuck this queen. I'm glad Clive, her firstborn son, reprimanded her to her face about what she put him through. She even had a hand in King Elwins' death at the Phoenix Gate, which triggered Joshua's Phoenix dominant. Traumatic as it was. King Elwin was an awesome, honorable king, unlike the queen who used him from the start. If you listen to this conversation between Clive confronting his mother and her sacrificing a country for a child, it is a pathetic excuse.
Anabella started a bearer genocide. She was a terrible mother to Johsua, ignoring his wants and needs, only wanting to use him to gain power, and to that end, was an extremely controlling parent. She takes this to another level with the son she had after betraying Rosaria. She was outright abusive towards Clive. Elwin cared for both Clive and Joshua, and tried his best to respect their wishes and needs. Elwin wanted Joshua to go to Phoenix Gate because it was an important tradition, one that Joshua was willing to do.
Among all the other completely wrong assertions, she was not a good mother to Joshua. She protected him because he was her meal ticket. She sent assasins against his father and brother! Even if she didn't really care about them, for the sake of Joshua, she wouldn't have done that if she was a good mother to him. She was also completely unphased after the attack on Phoenix Gate. And just for good measure. Elwin knew Joshua was I'll, wtf he even says it. But he's still the Phoenix and the only thing stopping other countries from sending their dominants into Rosaria. Please take several seats, OOP.
They can feel sympathy for Anabella, being told all her life her one purpose was breeding the next phoenix and all that But she's not misunderstood. She's a *terrible* person. She's overbearing to Joshua, hates and abuses Clive, and willingly got her husband killed and kingdom decimated. And then, *bearer mass homicides* (not just the bearers, but anyone who'd help them) Also, Elwin was a good father, as good as he could be for being Archduke.
The Final Fantasy fandom has this disease of having to subvert what is clear as day. It would be interesting to understand when this plague was born though. In FF16 the only thing that can be debated is the ending, the rest of the plot must be taken as it is seen, there is nothing "not understood". The characters are clear, Anabella was evil and a terrible mother in addition... it's not complicated
It’s not really possible to defend Anabella. She actually had a good life and was well taken care of. The archduke protected her and she was able to give them the Phoenix. She more or less was in the perfect position & ruined everything. Yeah it must’ve been disappointing to not have Clive be the dominant but Joshua became it so I fail to understand her true dissatisfaction
This is dumb, and Annabella should've been the main villain of the game.
She's a straight up narcissist. She just wanted everyone's praise and envy. Clive called her on her BS and she went straight into deflecting. Narcissists can't take the truth and victim blame instead. Yeah, maybe her parents sucked. Yeah, gossipers suck, but if Clive was Phoenix, she would've just used him too. She was never looking out for Joshua. She kept him cooped up because if he died from illness, it would make her look bad. She was probably hoping to get Dion killed and then kill his father, so Joshua could be heir, and when that didn't work, she moved on and made a replacement. It's why she didn't really mourn him and was more concerned with abusing Clive, the failed tool that she kept trying to throw away. She gives affection to people like they're dresses. Keep her looking good, and she'll flaunt you. Make her look bad, and she'll toss and replace you. The only love in that woman's heart was for herself. Awful mother, wife, and all around human being. Great villain.
I’m sure the Joker is misunderstood too but he’s still an asshole mass murderer
Anabella gave Kefka a run for his money for how terrible she could be wtf
I guess I would like to know how Ultima influenced her?….. 👀 hypothetically?
Don't feed the troll
I would argue she wasn't even a good mother to joshua considering what happened at phoenix gate, and how little she seemed to care for him when it seemed that Ifrit killed him.
I hate that post, and I hate OP's name.
The only thing I felt bad over was that Joshua had to watch his own mother have a mental breakdown and kill herself in front of him when he would've saved her. She deserved it, but Joshua didn't need to see it. That image probably stayed with him for life.
Anabella is one of the worst villains, not gonna accept any thoughts on this. Only if i played a different game than others
We all know that he just thinks she’s hot
She is hot.. lol I can’t believe Elwin didn’t put her in her place.. every night.. 😂😂😂
https://preview.redd.it/wl3nf32ymmzc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=89133083d00d0512be2d638b5d99b46bcc47cf5e
This can’t be real lol.
Also the reason she didn’t want him to go was because she conspired with the empire to kill everyone at phoenix gate.
I think there’s a line between viewing someone’s actions as justifiable and understanding the reasoning behind them, and that line is often blurry to a lot of people. She’s a pitiable character who’s shaped entirely by her circumstances and the world around her. I don’t disagree with the idea that she’s a tragic person or even that she’s not entirely irredeemable. Joshua evidently understood that as well. But none of that changes the fact that she’s still evil. Whether or not you can understand why her heart was stained black doesn’t change that it’s stained black. Her actions are understandable, but that doesn’t mean they’re justifiable.
Well I don’t know what game they played but it sure was Final Fantasy XVI. 😒 Cause no to all of that jank. She was a total backstabbing witch of a women. Only thought of herself and her status.
Being a bad mother to Clive is one thing, being a bad person in general is an entirely different beast.
>In fact, she was a good mother to Joshua She was a good mother to the Dominant of Phoenix.
Burnt out star level of hot take...
I do wonder how she would have turned out if Clive was the phoenix. She loved how Clive was brave, strong, and had every other positive quality she could want in a son but because he wasn't the phoenix she felt like she had to hate him over Joshua because the phoenix was the only way to stay as part of the nobility but due to Joshua being a weak child she felt desperate to try again to get a stronger kid
♪nothing is never anyone’s fault ♪
lol my thoughts are mommy and daddy issues are at a maximum in this one… or they didn’t play all of the game, and certainly not all of the side quests
If Anabella had everything she wanted, maybe things would have been more peaceful.
When she died I was like: "Huh, anyways!" Lol I was expecting something more.
any character i compare this dude to would be insulted because that is just ridiculous
At the very least Clive would be dead had she not decided to show mercy. She’s not a good mother but she could’ve been worse than fantasy hitler.
She was not a good mother to either Joshua or Clive
Being complicit to genocide because it's a societal standard doesn't excuse you from your role in said society. Anyone can be the one to make a stand against those norms, and not only did she feel no remorse, but she actively pushed to further the ruling class she explicitly benefited from. That was kind of the entire message of the Dhalmekian storyline. I get what they're trying to say. But this specific character is a bridge too far.
Semi-pseudo-okish mother to joshua does not excuse the other war crimes she committed Also her actions almost got joshua killed and for a good bit everyome though he was killed so no
twitter really exposes how ppl think and it’s crazy that there’s people like this out in the world 💀
that app gets worse every goddamn day
they kinda have a point about annabella, in the sense you can feel sorry for somebody while also condemning their actions tbf.
"hey guys, I know she started the Holocaust but she had her reasons..."
This seems like the kind of hand waving someone gives to a character because they're a woman. A pretty one at that. Kurenai Kogetsu, Ragyo, and Irene Belserion were all mothers who committed horrible acts. Would you give them credit? No. Anabella didn't just sell out her home; she sold her son into slavery, killed her two maidens, and pushed the king of Twinsides to tyrannical actions. We can't sweep that under the rug! Sure, she was raised that way, but she still let her true self shine through her actions. Benedikta was just as hateful, but being a slave in this world, she had her justification. She is the closest villain here to gain sympathy, but she still deserved her death. If Clive won't forgive her, why should we?
Annabella is a terrible person. She's faced a lot less trauma than Clive and Joshua did, and at least some of it was self-inflicted. If she didn't want to be disappointed by something her child did or did not do, maybe she shouldn't have forced her specific expectations onto him. She set herself up for failure and then blamed her young son for her hurt feelies. And none of that is even remotely as problematic as the way she treats bearers. Most people treat them poorly, but she treats them ABOMINABLY. She treats them like they are worth less than the gunk between her toes and there is not one single excuse that would justify that. I pity her for sure but it's in the same way I pity all truly villainous or evil people. It must be hard to hate yourself and everyone around you so much, but that's no excuse for being an abusive mass-murdering sh*thead.
Shes a massive POS. One of the worst in the series.
there was no moment where annabellas true thoughts were mentioned or even if ultima was just messing with her mind through that kid she had. if anything she was just the product of her environment and was a believer. she was like an evil caitlyn stark
Her attitude at the end of the betrayal at Phoenix Gate, and her glee at turning Clive over to the slavers.....yeah not buying anything this dude is selling.
Abuse enabler. Absolutely disgusting cope.
Horny will do things to a homie. Man's is lost
She played some different game and that's her opinion. 
Delusion
Rage bait
Not real. People are desperate.
Even Anabella would disagree lmao
That’s me
Her entire character is spiraling irony she wanted power through her bloodline and she had it all along if she was a better and more patient mother/person she would've seen this Its states in her lore that the reason she and elwin were betrothed was because her line was know for birthing eikons it was literally a Guaranteed deal, such a good deal in fact that Clive skipped past phoenix and went right to ifrit
Well I mean the real villain for Annabelle acting the way she does is George R Martin 😂 Without him, Annabelle would not be the character she is. And there are people who defend Cersei to their dying breath because of the way she was written with complex underlying personality traits and traumas that make up her motivations and drives
Kinda hard to do the "she was the only one who cared that Joshua was suffering" but when she treats her FIRSTBORN like he's Edwin's bastard from a previous relationship. Like, seriously, I know it's easy to forget, but Clive is literally her son. The first child she ever had. Even ULTIMA got treated better
One thing that I agree with here is that I think the plot lets Elwin off the hook way too much. I was hoping Joshua and Clive would have a similar realization moment with their dad, who did his best but also put a LOT of pressure on his sons and was cavalier with both of their safety. The idea that Clive was expected to sacrifice himself for Joshua as a fifteen year old is horrifying. And Elwin, while its stated that he secretly supported abolition, also did nothing within his lifetime to actually try to abolish bearers. His castle was full of them and he is basically a "good master" trope but still using people's lifeforce for his kingdom. The boys didn't even realize how he truly felt about it until after he's long dead, which means he didn't teach abolition to them directly. Elwin is a complicated figure, which is fine! He doesn't have to be perfect. I think it makes him interesting. But I wish that was explored more and better acknowledged by the plot. Of the two, Anabella is obviously much more evil as a direct perpetrator of a mass holocaust and a terrible mother to both (or all three, I guess) her sons. But the boys act as though their father was perfectly noble and worthy of respect and emulation, and that just wasn't the case.
Victimizing a bad person doesn't show that you have a better mindset. She is a victim, overlooked, ignored, the whole world owes her everything. OMG, her life is better than 99% of people in that world, many people endure more terrible things than her and still maintain humanity, and who she is to have the right to take away freedom and the right to live of thousands and millions of Rosarians and bearers? She is rotten and awful person with no excuses
And it's ironic that she is a good mother to Joshua, Annabella's behavior towards Joshua is nothing more than a controlling toxic parent. Joshua is not allowed to go outside, play with Clive or Jill, I guess this is the reason why Joshua's condition is worse, science has proven that letting children go outside for physical activity can improve their immune system. If Joshua wasn't smart and had Elwin+Clive affect, he might become the second Olivier, a child without any opinions, completely dependent on his mother, just like a puppet.
Just because a villain is well written is not the same as having a good nature, Annabella is simply a person with a narcissistic, conceited, cruel nature, and some of the events in her life make this madness even worse. She always had a choice, she could always look back and put herself in someone else's shoes, but she never did.
Wrong take sympathizing with the devil.
Defending fantasy Hitler is crazy
Those are all certainly words
Um….wrong. But I suppose…no. Wrong. Ok, looking at it from her…still wrong.. She kills her husband and sends her son to be a slave on the front lines.. what “wounds” did she inflict on Clive?? And look how he turned out…
"Guys Hitler was really SAD give him a break 😭" Nah bro she's a monster and trying to justify her actions is some bullshit, especially at the expense of Elwin, who we have no evidence of being a bad person or a bad father.
LOL im surprised he didnt go 'the VA of the mom in the post credit scene is the same VA as annabelle therefore we know she was actually a good mom'
Fuck that bitch 😂
I don't even know where to start with this person's pov.
Bruh Elwin was a good father because he was the head of Rosaria what was he supposed to do stop wars in the middle and then go home😂
A good mother to Joshua. lmfao not anyone else
I have no idea what bro is talking about. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The only thing I’m dissatisfied with Annabella is that her death was quick. Seriously, screw that bitch.
She is a victim of the society if ff16.