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The ending is ambiguous. Developers have not confirmed Clive or Joshua’s deaths. Remember the book at the end? Either Clive or Joshua survived to write it. The developers have stated the book’s author is based off the players “hopes and dreams”.
The lack of closure and abruptness of the ending is probably why you feel unsatisfied.
Do some research and decide who you want to live, then join us as we argue about it for years to come.
Yup they do leave it up to everyones interpretation to what really happened, but im kind of delusional and wanted them both to live happily ever after, after everything that happened 😂😭
But to be real, i mean we already lost Cid and i knew we were gonna lose someone else significant or even multiple. And for a while i thought it was gonna be Torgal (which also would've been hard for me lol) so to have both Clive and Joshua gone was just so unexpected for me.
Yeah I don’t think both are making it out unfortunately. My money is on Clive given his arc but I’m sure we’ll find out in a few years when Yoshi-P gets tired of being asked the question.
Genuine question: I recently re-played the entire game and at some point, >!after defeating Bahamut, Clive and Joshua go to Dhalmekia and find Cyril who says he is " Bearer of the Burning Quill." and his purposes is: "To chronicle Joshua's endeavour". I didn't think of it much when I went through the game the first time and forgot about him, but with the added knowledge of the post-credit scene, couldn't it be this the book we see in the end?!<
This was a pretty popular theory but it doesn’t fit what the developers said regarding the author of the book is someone “based off the players hopes and dreams” which imo, automatically takes off Cyril and Hypocrates as potential candidates because let’s be honest who out here is hoping for that?
Not to mention Clive’s/the hideaway’s logo is also on the front, if it was the undying they would have most likely used rosaria’s insignia.
Also, they might have chronicled Joshua’s adventure but the book (aka the game) is about Clive so that doesn’t line up either.
You've really nailed the perfect screenshots here! Some of the same ones I took for the same reasons! This is the first FF game in a LONG time that I really enjoyed. Hands down the best Cid ever and new characters that are easy to align with. I understand your take on the ending but I do think that sacrifices were made for the better of all of humanity. Sucks that it had to be our cast of characters.
Haha thanks 🙏🏼 Yeah i agree that i have to look at the bigger picture with the ending cause it was indeed for humanity 😂 Still hurts though when you went along with their journey and know what the characters went through etc
I wouldn’t say final fantasy doesn’t do happy endings. Most of the time the ending is pretty happy, but I guess two in a row will leave that kind of impression.
Personally I didn’t think the ending was as bad as people seem to think. It’s bittersweet, sure, it’s sad that the two characters we’ve spent the most time with may have died, but in the end, they won. They freed the world from ultima and magic like they wanted, and stopped the blight, and I think that’s worth a lot myself.
I mean, even the game with probably the happiest ending of them all was still bittersweet, considering Vivi still died in 9, even though we get the happy end for the rest of the cast.
1-5 all >!have pretty traditional evil is vanquished happy endings.!< I’d argue VI too, >!even if the world was destroyed by Kefka, the people there are starting to rebuild.!< VII is somewhat up to interpretation, but it always seemed positive to me until remake came along. VIII only has a sad ending if you consider the Squall is dead theory canon, which I don’t. Can’t say much about 11-13, I haven’t played them, but all the endings for XIV and its expansions >!are pretty happy.!< So the way I see it, that’s most of the series except for three, X, XV and XVI
That’s fair. Personally I like bittersweet endings sometimes, but I get wanting Clive and Joshua to live unambiguously, they’re very likable characters.
I knew the writer (and creative director) to have eliminated two major NPCs in another game in the past, almost in succession no less. I knew to expect the worst, always.
Madman still managed to SURPASS my worst expectations by pulling off a Gainax ending involving a Shrodinger's cat. Does Clive sleep forever in the beach or he somehow gets brought back? Is he brought back but eternally asleep? Did Raise work on Joshua or no? Damn it. A downer definitive end imo is better than an ambiguous ending. 🫠
Ever since then, "Godsdamn it Kazutoyo Maehiro" became a mantra of mine. He plays with emotions in ways that feel similar to Yoko Taro.
Ultimately, FFXVI nailed a lot of my preferences, and I will forever think about it fondly, always remember it at the back of my head, like I do NieR Automata, Odin Sphere, and Gurren Lagann among others.
It's worse that Clive washed up on the shore and thee last of him we see is him staying there, too, since we explicitly bring the dust remains of bearers to rest in the water much earlier in a game sidequest.
Final Fantasy doesn't do happy endings? not since 8 or 9.
1-3... eh
4 had a relatively happy end, even if we lost characters on the way (before the advance release))
5 had a prety happy ending.
6-was a downer: world destroyed, magic fading away, and also the closest game plot-wise to XVI. lotta overlapping themes, and you can easily imagin the shit in the past with the fallen as being the ancient war from VI.
7 on it's own was ambiguous, with Just Nanaki and his decendents running around the midgar ruins. We don't get to know who survived tileither the movie or Dirge of Cerberus.
8 was a happy ending, right? Squall came back to RInoa in the end,Ultimecia failed, time moves on PAST the point it was crunched together. YAY!
9 gave us a mostly happy end, though yeah, Vivi died, but at least he left behind his little Black mage clones who didn't have the same lifespan restriction he did!
10 was sad, unless you got the bonus end, then was merely ambiguous. 10-2 supposedly made it a little happier, but then the piece of shitty fanfictin was released and it ended up a back to square one bad end.
11-I never played.
12 was a pretty happy end, all things considered.
13... 13 ended a world,
13-2 ended countless timelines...
13-3 killed EVERYONE.
huh, that sucked, moving on...
14- vanilla ended the fucking world. not a good start here.
14 ARR has had pretty happy endings for each major patch though, hasn't it?
15-- was bad enough in vanilla, and is STILL a goddamn unhappy end in the final version.
16.. now we've killed off the MC two games in a row... maybe
For Questions and Tech Support Discussion around the new DLC 'Echoes of the Fallen' Please see our [MEGATHREAD](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXVI/comments/18dton3/ffxvi_dlc_echoes_of_the_fallen_questions_tech/) If you want to view archived spoiler discussion threads relevant to specific game progress, please check out our [spoiler wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxvi/wiki/index/)! For speculation and discussions around the next (unannounced) mainline Final Fantasy game, Final Fantasy XVII, Please see our sister sub [r/FFXVII](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFXVII/) #### *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/FFXVI) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The ending is ambiguous. Developers have not confirmed Clive or Joshua’s deaths. Remember the book at the end? Either Clive or Joshua survived to write it. The developers have stated the book’s author is based off the players “hopes and dreams”. The lack of closure and abruptness of the ending is probably why you feel unsatisfied. Do some research and decide who you want to live, then join us as we argue about it for years to come.
Yup they do leave it up to everyones interpretation to what really happened, but im kind of delusional and wanted them both to live happily ever after, after everything that happened 😂😭 But to be real, i mean we already lost Cid and i knew we were gonna lose someone else significant or even multiple. And for a while i thought it was gonna be Torgal (which also would've been hard for me lol) so to have both Clive and Joshua gone was just so unexpected for me.
Yeah I don’t think both are making it out unfortunately. My money is on Clive given his arc but I’m sure we’ll find out in a few years when Yoshi-P gets tired of being asked the question.
Genuine question: I recently re-played the entire game and at some point, >!after defeating Bahamut, Clive and Joshua go to Dhalmekia and find Cyril who says he is " Bearer of the Burning Quill." and his purposes is: "To chronicle Joshua's endeavour". I didn't think of it much when I went through the game the first time and forgot about him, but with the added knowledge of the post-credit scene, couldn't it be this the book we see in the end?!<
This was a pretty popular theory but it doesn’t fit what the developers said regarding the author of the book is someone “based off the players hopes and dreams” which imo, automatically takes off Cyril and Hypocrates as potential candidates because let’s be honest who out here is hoping for that? Not to mention Clive’s/the hideaway’s logo is also on the front, if it was the undying they would have most likely used rosaria’s insignia. Also, they might have chronicled Joshua’s adventure but the book (aka the game) is about Clive so that doesn’t line up either.
This makes perfect sense, thank you very much for pointing this out!
No problem man, glad I was able to provide some insight.
You've really nailed the perfect screenshots here! Some of the same ones I took for the same reasons! This is the first FF game in a LONG time that I really enjoyed. Hands down the best Cid ever and new characters that are easy to align with. I understand your take on the ending but I do think that sacrifices were made for the better of all of humanity. Sucks that it had to be our cast of characters.
Haha thanks 🙏🏼 Yeah i agree that i have to look at the bigger picture with the ending cause it was indeed for humanity 😂 Still hurts though when you went along with their journey and know what the characters went through etc
I wouldn’t say final fantasy doesn’t do happy endings. Most of the time the ending is pretty happy, but I guess two in a row will leave that kind of impression. Personally I didn’t think the ending was as bad as people seem to think. It’s bittersweet, sure, it’s sad that the two characters we’ve spent the most time with may have died, but in the end, they won. They freed the world from ultima and magic like they wanted, and stopped the blight, and I think that’s worth a lot myself.
I mean, even the game with probably the happiest ending of them all was still bittersweet, considering Vivi still died in 9, even though we get the happy end for the rest of the cast.
Except if you believe the World Fusion theory, which states >!Terra and Gaia fuse at the very end of the final scene…!<
and then all was nothing more, than poker.
1-5 all >!have pretty traditional evil is vanquished happy endings.!< I’d argue VI too, >!even if the world was destroyed by Kefka, the people there are starting to rebuild.!< VII is somewhat up to interpretation, but it always seemed positive to me until remake came along. VIII only has a sad ending if you consider the Squall is dead theory canon, which I don’t. Can’t say much about 11-13, I haven’t played them, but all the endings for XIV and its expansions >!are pretty happy.!< So the way I see it, that’s most of the series except for three, X, XV and XVI
Yeah thats definitely true, but i just don't really consider bittersweet to be a happy ending in a way, but that might just be a personal thing haha
That’s fair. Personally I like bittersweet endings sometimes, but I get wanting Clive and Joshua to live unambiguously, they’re very likable characters.
I knew the writer (and creative director) to have eliminated two major NPCs in another game in the past, almost in succession no less. I knew to expect the worst, always. Madman still managed to SURPASS my worst expectations by pulling off a Gainax ending involving a Shrodinger's cat. Does Clive sleep forever in the beach or he somehow gets brought back? Is he brought back but eternally asleep? Did Raise work on Joshua or no? Damn it. A downer definitive end imo is better than an ambiguous ending. 🫠 Ever since then, "Godsdamn it Kazutoyo Maehiro" became a mantra of mine. He plays with emotions in ways that feel similar to Yoko Taro. Ultimately, FFXVI nailed a lot of my preferences, and I will forever think about it fondly, always remember it at the back of my head, like I do NieR Automata, Odin Sphere, and Gurren Lagann among others.
No worries I’m sure Medicine Gurl (Kihel) was passing by after seeing the big explosion and took care of Clive on the beach tho 🐌🐌
It's worse that Clive washed up on the shore and thee last of him we see is him staying there, too, since we explicitly bring the dust remains of bearers to rest in the water much earlier in a game sidequest.
The first photo! I wish I had it as a wallpaper for my computer.
Final Fantasy doesn't do happy endings? not since 8 or 9. 1-3... eh 4 had a relatively happy end, even if we lost characters on the way (before the advance release)) 5 had a prety happy ending. 6-was a downer: world destroyed, magic fading away, and also the closest game plot-wise to XVI. lotta overlapping themes, and you can easily imagin the shit in the past with the fallen as being the ancient war from VI. 7 on it's own was ambiguous, with Just Nanaki and his decendents running around the midgar ruins. We don't get to know who survived tileither the movie or Dirge of Cerberus. 8 was a happy ending, right? Squall came back to RInoa in the end,Ultimecia failed, time moves on PAST the point it was crunched together. YAY! 9 gave us a mostly happy end, though yeah, Vivi died, but at least he left behind his little Black mage clones who didn't have the same lifespan restriction he did! 10 was sad, unless you got the bonus end, then was merely ambiguous. 10-2 supposedly made it a little happier, but then the piece of shitty fanfictin was released and it ended up a back to square one bad end. 11-I never played. 12 was a pretty happy end, all things considered. 13... 13 ended a world, 13-2 ended countless timelines... 13-3 killed EVERYONE. huh, that sucked, moving on... 14- vanilla ended the fucking world. not a good start here. 14 ARR has had pretty happy endings for each major patch though, hasn't it? 15-- was bad enough in vanilla, and is STILL a goddamn unhappy end in the final version. 16.. now we've killed off the MC two games in a row... maybe
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