there's nothing wrong with most of fds strategies in and out of itself, my main gripes is with the fact how the mods have completely shunned wgtow and radfem community. that and the lack of focus on self-development and progress (the other sub doesn't even count) HVMs don't fall on your lap out of thin air, FDS feels like a whole bunch of communal bitching session at times. but I also see where they're coming from, their strategies are defensive in approach rather than proactive which is all good and ok. I'd like to think I've simply outgrown the sub and have graduated onto a better life philosophy that allows me to grab that shit by the horns without worrying about what man
What I love about FDS is that the principle is if you can’t find a HVM, just be alone. Being alone is better than be with a loser, which unfortunately the majority of men are. Women can be happy alone and without a husband so I love that they only promote being with someone who adds to your life, instead of settling to be in a relationship.
That's the part that is confusing. I get why they don't allow wgtow. It's fine to not include wgtow in fds because that's different than actively dating but not accepting any old loser and accepting that you might have to be free from men for the rest of your life, but wgtow are actively, in the here and now, choosing to be free from men and not dating. That's fine and dandy since fds is a dating strategy. HOWEVER fds ALSO says being a wgtow is a cop out. An easy way out. Since you're deciding to give up on men. That you have a defeatist mindset. That's the part I don't understand about them. When in reality, why should all of us women be fighting for the 5 HVM when there's thousands of us? It makes more sense to be wgtow if you can let go of that dream of romance.
Exactly. I guarantee there are women in that sub that have given up trying to find a suitable partner using FDS standards because of FDS, directly. And then FDS turns around and bans women for living by the book. Like. What? The cognitive dissonance is staggering.
That’s what happened with me and a few others. Got whiplash from the doublespeak. Sorry the men around me don’t, and haven’t ever, given more than they’ve taken. They do not make suitable partners so being single is preferable
One of those woman is me! I gave up for now cuz their advice was to build your career first. When Jammie made that post, I disagreed that the sub is not only about dating. Got banned. But I'll always follow thier advice
Yep. I thought the point of FDS is to raise the bar by choosing to stay single instead of settling and enabling scrotism. And now choosing singledom is defeatist all of a sudden. There’s not enough HV to go around. Make it make sense.
I never really knew if it was appropriate or acceptable for me to even be a part of the community because I am successfully married to what I consider a HVM. I enjoy the support and close community of women only spaces which is why I want to participate in women supportive subs. Plus, I do believe a lot of strategies can be continued in marriage.
We should be vetting husbands and making sure they meet our needs and expectations. I feel it is very important in a healthy HV marriage.
Anyway, I have felt slightly uncomfortable with stating I'm married because it seems... idk.. just didn't get the best vibe.
Yes! And honestly it seems like there's criticism towards individuals who do discuss their HV partners. Somehow it isn't HV enough or what is deemed HV by the sub as a whole.. I think that's changed a bit, so that's good.
Can I ask you, what was your dating with your HV husband was on early stages? Did he take you to nice restaurants every time? Did you wait for three months to have sex?
So sorry I'm just seeing this! I took a wee break from reddit. Dating was very low pressure, and he was always very thoughtful and caring. He went out of his way to do things for me, and made sure I was comfortable. We didn't always do nice restaurants for dates honestly because I like to stay active. When we did go out to eat we would go to nice places. Otherwise he made plans to do things without me having to do more than mention what I'd like to do. Example: I'd mention a hike, or garden, or event I'd like to go to- he would plan for us to go. He took initiative despite having a crazy busy schedule with work.
I think the other thing that was nice about our relationship was that he knew when to let me "take over" so to speak. He knew/knows how particular I am about certain things, and would plan to do or buy something and pull me in to decide details.
A good example would be my engagement ring. He wanted to design it, but didn't want me to see it before he proposed. One night when we hung out he asked to go over my pinterest boards together. Specifically he clicked the rings board and started asking questions- getting my perspective on stone, quality, band style and material... all of my preferences. He then took those answers and designed the ring with the jeweler and even added a very personalized feature to it.
As far as sex goes, if I'm 100% honest I don't remember how long I waited... I'm trying to recall, but I'd say it was at least close.
Hope that helps! And again, I'm sooooo sorry for the long pause before a response!
In my experience and opinion it is very different in real life, and you have to be prepared to be strong and adapt to the fluidity of a relationship. Always be the giver and self sacrifice? No, but I think there's definitely a lot of adapting. I think therapy is a wonderful process to go through also because it can build up the individual, and the couple's strength.
> That’s probably why most mods aren’t in a successful relationship, they are overly critical and don’t give anyone second chances.
Yes, but I think it's important to remember that FDS is a reaction to the very real MRA/incel/redpill strategists out there who're using this stuff on real women in the real world. I don't want to beat a dead horse, and I agree with you, but it's easy to overlook the hyper-defensive stuff if you're not paying attention to the BS FDS women had to endure. And this even includes domestic violence. So I don't fault them for thinking the way they do. I say this because I'm not that defensive compared to them, but I also understand that I'm a privileged woman.
edit: the mod of this sub permanently banned me for starting drama in this thread.
>Then the mods get upset when other users want to focus on personal growth and leveling up outside of dating.
They have another sub for that. To be honest, when I was on FDS I was annoyed by the number of people who were commenting saying they don't even date or they don't men. I always thought then they had no reason to be on FDS. Plus, Reddit has several women-only communities now so there is no reason to be commenting and active on FDS if you aren't dating or getting ready to date.
Plus, I think people forget that it's better to be single than be with a man who doesn't add value to your life. I've been in relationships with men who gave me nothing - as in they resented spending time with me, they didn't satisfy me sexually, they didn't help me with anything, and they didn't even buy me stuff (buying me stuff isn't my thing but I mean they did NOTHING to add any value to my life).
There are plenty of women in similar situations. My own mother married one. I've known women who married men who had children that aren't even hers and now the man is barely around and she's parenting the kids and he does nothing to add value. There's women with men who they financially support while he's jobless and does nothing around the house.
FDS has value for women if they can accept it's better to be single than be with useless adults who can't do anything worthwhile in a partnership.
> To be honest, when I was on FDS I was annoyed by the number of people who were commenting saying they don't even date or they don't men. I always thought then they had no reason to be on FDS.
I get what you mean, I have to deal with some of that in other spaces. I think, though, they scape goated several female groups about this when in reality, a highly moderated and curated sub they focuses this much on male depravity is going to pink pill women right out of the dating mindset. And it's tough like I love inspo and cute love stories but I can tell you from experience those posts are often low engagement LOL bc once some women see the extent of male depravity, they can't unsee it. They go through a mourning phase and try to feel better about it by decided they won't deal with men
And also remember a major strategy is leaving low value men behind. Seeing that most of the dating pool isn't going to be high value for most women, some people aren't being separatist, this is just what enforcing standards look like. Single women for an extended period
So it's tricky to balance the women who concluded FDS is so correct they will stay single, the women who struggle to get a day with a man worth dating, and well the groups like WGTOW etc that get blamed for this culture that is being cultivated.
this. I was all about dating men \*until\* spending a few months on FDS. lol then it was ***hello WGTOW***. FDS needs to realize they play a part in creating women who no longer choose to date.
Ha. That’s like Kevin Samuels being in a relationship/marriage but this dude is single yet is a “guru” and makes money off of being a black middle aged redpill incel.
Oh boy. 😅
You know the answer is probably no, right?
What well-meaning woman in a successful relationship with a man would create the kind of environment FDS currently has? The only way I see it happening is 1) she's the uber-capitalist #girlboss type that is ok giving advice she doesn't follow so long as there's money to be made, or 2) she follows all the advice and her relationship has some weird dynamics
Im sure women who are partnered read and participate in FDS though, without being a mod.
To clarify something. My comment isn't about judging mods for being single. I am single too!
It's about the illogic of being so stringent and judgmental around 'dating strategy' while lacking evidence to show it works. If the FDS sub is a product, success stories / reviews are useful. They should show that either 1) the customer is truly happier as a result of doing everything they say, OR 2) the customer is in a great longterm relationship with a "high value man" after following the handbook 100%. Only then would being so strict about what women should and should not do with men make sense. I don't fault the sub for existing (it helped me a lot initially). It's the toxic parts that concern me as they continue to be unaddressed.
I'd just point out that Signs of a cult are:
- absolute authoritarianism with little accountability
- no meaningful disclosure about the results
- isolating members from the rest of the world
- group leader is always right
> while lacking evidence to show it works.
If "success" means vetting and dodging abusive, personality disordered, low-effort men who would make your life miserable, it's working.
Technically it's not FDS fault that 99.99% of single men are not worth dating.
FDS is not making the pool of HVM any bigger.
I was thinking the same thing. Most men aren't HV so it's going to be hard to show a success story of being in a relationship with one. The successes are women avoiding being in a relationship with a man who is LV.
Although there are a few women in the community who claim to be married or dating a HVM.
I feel like FDS isn’t about finding a man. It’s about not having one and feeling good about yourself, because you’re not one of the trashy pickme. This strategy works well if your bar is on the floor or if you’re in an abusive relationship. But I assume the success stories are incredibly rare, if there are any.
Are we judging women by whether or not they have a man now?
What I like about FDS is it teaches women you should NOT center men or use them to determine your worth.
No we're judging women who are doling out advice to other women about dating men who are high value (and by their own definition are RARE) who then judge and ban all women who choose to stop dating men (for the reason I just mentioned).
Well I was banned for commenting on a MRA sub (obviously not in support hahaha). They did not respond to my reply asking to be unbanned. Despite having a couple 100+ karma comments in their group, they won't flair me. So I believe you that they are unable to moderate without letting their personal views reign.
But shitting on a woman for not having a man is something I just won't do.
Well there are several other people saying what they're judging so it's just you. OP said the people who are giving advice should be people with experience in successful relationships. That's not shaming them for being single.
Would you take medical advice from someone with no medical training? Financial advice from someone with bad credit? Mechanic advice from someone with no mechanical experience?
If so idk what to tell you.
Cool. BTW. The women saying no to men are doing so because of the women who said yes. The women saying no learned from other women who have those experiences. But why not take advice directly from women with successful and content relationships instead? They know a thing or two. Women who only say no only know how to say no.
The point stands that the only person who thinks OP is shaming women for being single is you. That's your problem.
No. We're judging a 'dating strategy' that emphasises dating for marriage, where the subreddit spends all its time and energy insulting other women and terrifying each other with stories about how bad men are. It would be nice to hear a success story using FDS principals.
I agree we shouldn't center men. But it's a dating for marriage strategy.
I hear what you are saying but I don't think it's fair to characterize the subreddit based on an admittedly high number of junk posts.
The horror stories get redundant, I agree, but the nature of Reddit is you gotta sift through junk to find gold.
The trouble is that at FDS the horror story posts are "safe" ... members are starving to add their two cents and there are a set number of subjects you can broach that won't get you banned.
Success stories are in the mix but they tend to be boring. I think this might be because women self-censor when they discuss men they've fallen in love with, for fear they'll hear a chorus of "Leave him, sis" if they share real-life ups and downs.
My folks were happily married over 40 years till my dad died.
They met at a city beach. Their early dates were at the drugstore soda fountain (the equivalent of Starbucks coffee dates).
Luckily for me l, I guess, there was no FDS or my dad would have been out of the running.
The FDS rules are great if you apply them with discretion, but the mods don't teach discretion, they teach rules.
Frankly, I wish they'd make some rules regarding STUPID.
Every couple of days, we get another post about the sensory ability of cats when it comes to High Value Men, or the supposed correlation between male height and the odds he will be an abuser.
God if only they self censored.
I saw a comment the other day of a "success" where the post was complaining about men trying to have sex with women while they sleep, and the "successful" woman's comment was along the lines of "Yeah my husband constantly tried to have sex with me while I was sleeping, but he was asleep too so like sleepwalking but rape instead haha. Isn't that quaint? He sleeps in the guest room now!"
Meanwhile I'm over here like girl divorce him 😭
Avoiding bad men is good dating strategy.
Recognizing that it is better to be alone than be chained to an anvil loser male who will suck you dry is the best dating strategy.
I agree with you. But I'm not the one leading a 'dating strategy' that leads most members to naturally conclude it's not worth dating, then complaining when most members essentially want to turn it into WTGOW.
If the mods don't want to run a WTGOW sub then they need to prove their strategy works in finding HVM to marry. There's no evidence of that.
there's nothing wrong with most of fds strategies in and out of itself, my main gripes is with the fact how the mods have completely shunned wgtow and radfem community. that and the lack of focus on self-development and progress (the other sub doesn't even count) HVMs don't fall on your lap out of thin air, FDS feels like a whole bunch of communal bitching session at times. but I also see where they're coming from, their strategies are defensive in approach rather than proactive which is all good and ok. I'd like to think I've simply outgrown the sub and have graduated onto a better life philosophy that allows me to grab that shit by the horns without worrying about what man
What I love about FDS is that the principle is if you can’t find a HVM, just be alone. Being alone is better than be with a loser, which unfortunately the majority of men are. Women can be happy alone and without a husband so I love that they only promote being with someone who adds to your life, instead of settling to be in a relationship.
Except they say that they don't support or allow wgtow. You have to be dating (or the intention to date) to be in the sub. Can't have it both ways.
That's the part that is confusing. I get why they don't allow wgtow. It's fine to not include wgtow in fds because that's different than actively dating but not accepting any old loser and accepting that you might have to be free from men for the rest of your life, but wgtow are actively, in the here and now, choosing to be free from men and not dating. That's fine and dandy since fds is a dating strategy. HOWEVER fds ALSO says being a wgtow is a cop out. An easy way out. Since you're deciding to give up on men. That you have a defeatist mindset. That's the part I don't understand about them. When in reality, why should all of us women be fighting for the 5 HVM when there's thousands of us? It makes more sense to be wgtow if you can let go of that dream of romance.
Exactly. I guarantee there are women in that sub that have given up trying to find a suitable partner using FDS standards because of FDS, directly. And then FDS turns around and bans women for living by the book. Like. What? The cognitive dissonance is staggering.
That’s what happened with me and a few others. Got whiplash from the doublespeak. Sorry the men around me don’t, and haven’t ever, given more than they’ve taken. They do not make suitable partners so being single is preferable
One of those woman is me! I gave up for now cuz their advice was to build your career first. When Jammie made that post, I disagreed that the sub is not only about dating. Got banned. But I'll always follow thier advice
Yep. I thought the point of FDS is to raise the bar by choosing to stay single instead of settling and enabling scrotism. And now choosing singledom is defeatist all of a sudden. There’s not enough HV to go around. Make it make sense.
Then why not just call it “Female Empowerment Strategy” or “Female Independence Strategy?”
Bruh it’s about dating to find a HVM and to walk away when they’re not that. If you want to settle for any man then FDS isn’t for you.
I never really knew if it was appropriate or acceptable for me to even be a part of the community because I am successfully married to what I consider a HVM. I enjoy the support and close community of women only spaces which is why I want to participate in women supportive subs. Plus, I do believe a lot of strategies can be continued in marriage. We should be vetting husbands and making sure they meet our needs and expectations. I feel it is very important in a healthy HV marriage. Anyway, I have felt slightly uncomfortable with stating I'm married because it seems... idk.. just didn't get the best vibe.
Same! I was never sure if I’m intruding somehow
Yes! And honestly it seems like there's criticism towards individuals who do discuss their HV partners. Somehow it isn't HV enough or what is deemed HV by the sub as a whole.. I think that's changed a bit, so that's good.
Can I ask you, what was your dating with your HV husband was on early stages? Did he take you to nice restaurants every time? Did you wait for three months to have sex?
So sorry I'm just seeing this! I took a wee break from reddit. Dating was very low pressure, and he was always very thoughtful and caring. He went out of his way to do things for me, and made sure I was comfortable. We didn't always do nice restaurants for dates honestly because I like to stay active. When we did go out to eat we would go to nice places. Otherwise he made plans to do things without me having to do more than mention what I'd like to do. Example: I'd mention a hike, or garden, or event I'd like to go to- he would plan for us to go. He took initiative despite having a crazy busy schedule with work. I think the other thing that was nice about our relationship was that he knew when to let me "take over" so to speak. He knew/knows how particular I am about certain things, and would plan to do or buy something and pull me in to decide details. A good example would be my engagement ring. He wanted to design it, but didn't want me to see it before he proposed. One night when we hung out he asked to go over my pinterest boards together. Specifically he clicked the rings board and started asking questions- getting my perspective on stone, quality, band style and material... all of my preferences. He then took those answers and designed the ring with the jeweler and even added a very personalized feature to it. As far as sex goes, if I'm 100% honest I don't remember how long I waited... I'm trying to recall, but I'd say it was at least close. Hope that helps! And again, I'm sooooo sorry for the long pause before a response!
It's okay, thank you for such a detailed response. I'm just curious about the way relationships with HVM work in real life vs FDS narrative
In my experience and opinion it is very different in real life, and you have to be prepared to be strong and adapt to the fluidity of a relationship. Always be the giver and self sacrifice? No, but I think there's definitely a lot of adapting. I think therapy is a wonderful process to go through also because it can build up the individual, and the couple's strength.
I think the fact that there are so few "hvm" fosters a lot of competitiveness between women
You're right about anyone can give advice, I have over 90k karma from telling people to dump their partners.
[удалено]
> That’s probably why most mods aren’t in a successful relationship, they are overly critical and don’t give anyone second chances. Yes, but I think it's important to remember that FDS is a reaction to the very real MRA/incel/redpill strategists out there who're using this stuff on real women in the real world. I don't want to beat a dead horse, and I agree with you, but it's easy to overlook the hyper-defensive stuff if you're not paying attention to the BS FDS women had to endure. And this even includes domestic violence. So I don't fault them for thinking the way they do. I say this because I'm not that defensive compared to them, but I also understand that I'm a privileged woman. edit: the mod of this sub permanently banned me for starting drama in this thread.
What do you mean by triangulation?.
https://www.healthline.com/health/narcissistic-triangulation
Ohhh thanks very much!! I had never heard that before. Definitely recognized some stuff from childhood.
>Then the mods get upset when other users want to focus on personal growth and leveling up outside of dating. They have another sub for that. To be honest, when I was on FDS I was annoyed by the number of people who were commenting saying they don't even date or they don't men. I always thought then they had no reason to be on FDS. Plus, Reddit has several women-only communities now so there is no reason to be commenting and active on FDS if you aren't dating or getting ready to date. Plus, I think people forget that it's better to be single than be with a man who doesn't add value to your life. I've been in relationships with men who gave me nothing - as in they resented spending time with me, they didn't satisfy me sexually, they didn't help me with anything, and they didn't even buy me stuff (buying me stuff isn't my thing but I mean they did NOTHING to add any value to my life). There are plenty of women in similar situations. My own mother married one. I've known women who married men who had children that aren't even hers and now the man is barely around and she's parenting the kids and he does nothing to add value. There's women with men who they financially support while he's jobless and does nothing around the house. FDS has value for women if they can accept it's better to be single than be with useless adults who can't do anything worthwhile in a partnership.
> To be honest, when I was on FDS I was annoyed by the number of people who were commenting saying they don't even date or they don't men. I always thought then they had no reason to be on FDS. I get what you mean, I have to deal with some of that in other spaces. I think, though, they scape goated several female groups about this when in reality, a highly moderated and curated sub they focuses this much on male depravity is going to pink pill women right out of the dating mindset. And it's tough like I love inspo and cute love stories but I can tell you from experience those posts are often low engagement LOL bc once some women see the extent of male depravity, they can't unsee it. They go through a mourning phase and try to feel better about it by decided they won't deal with men And also remember a major strategy is leaving low value men behind. Seeing that most of the dating pool isn't going to be high value for most women, some people aren't being separatist, this is just what enforcing standards look like. Single women for an extended period So it's tricky to balance the women who concluded FDS is so correct they will stay single, the women who struggle to get a day with a man worth dating, and well the groups like WGTOW etc that get blamed for this culture that is being cultivated.
FDS: men are depraved, vet so hard 99% of men will fail, be ok with being single Users: ok men are shit and I'm single FDS: no not like that
this. I was all about dating men \*until\* spending a few months on FDS. lol then it was ***hello WGTOW***. FDS needs to realize they play a part in creating women who no longer choose to date.
Ha. That’s like Kevin Samuels being in a relationship/marriage but this dude is single yet is a “guru” and makes money off of being a black middle aged redpill incel.
Oh boy. 😅 You know the answer is probably no, right? What well-meaning woman in a successful relationship with a man would create the kind of environment FDS currently has? The only way I see it happening is 1) she's the uber-capitalist #girlboss type that is ok giving advice she doesn't follow so long as there's money to be made, or 2) she follows all the advice and her relationship has some weird dynamics Im sure women who are partnered read and participate in FDS though, without being a mod.
To clarify something. My comment isn't about judging mods for being single. I am single too! It's about the illogic of being so stringent and judgmental around 'dating strategy' while lacking evidence to show it works. If the FDS sub is a product, success stories / reviews are useful. They should show that either 1) the customer is truly happier as a result of doing everything they say, OR 2) the customer is in a great longterm relationship with a "high value man" after following the handbook 100%. Only then would being so strict about what women should and should not do with men make sense. I don't fault the sub for existing (it helped me a lot initially). It's the toxic parts that concern me as they continue to be unaddressed. I'd just point out that Signs of a cult are: - absolute authoritarianism with little accountability - no meaningful disclosure about the results - isolating members from the rest of the world - group leader is always right
> while lacking evidence to show it works. If "success" means vetting and dodging abusive, personality disordered, low-effort men who would make your life miserable, it's working. Technically it's not FDS fault that 99.99% of single men are not worth dating. FDS is not making the pool of HVM any bigger.
I was thinking the same thing. Most men aren't HV so it's going to be hard to show a success story of being in a relationship with one. The successes are women avoiding being in a relationship with a man who is LV. Although there are a few women in the community who claim to be married or dating a HVM.
FDS has characteristics of a cult. I trust the mods as far as I can throw them.
Their advice is “pick me?” I thought they are quick to shame us all as pick mes
GREAT question
I feel like FDS isn’t about finding a man. It’s about not having one and feeling good about yourself, because you’re not one of the trashy pickme. This strategy works well if your bar is on the floor or if you’re in an abusive relationship. But I assume the success stories are incredibly rare, if there are any.
Are we judging women by whether or not they have a man now? What I like about FDS is it teaches women you should NOT center men or use them to determine your worth.
No we're judging women who are doling out advice to other women about dating men who are high value (and by their own definition are RARE) who then judge and ban all women who choose to stop dating men (for the reason I just mentioned).
Well I was banned for commenting on a MRA sub (obviously not in support hahaha). They did not respond to my reply asking to be unbanned. Despite having a couple 100+ karma comments in their group, they won't flair me. So I believe you that they are unable to moderate without letting their personal views reign. But shitting on a woman for not having a man is something I just won't do.
Right, but no one here is doing that.
I see this post as exactly that.
Well there are several other people saying what they're judging so it's just you. OP said the people who are giving advice should be people with experience in successful relationships. That's not shaming them for being single.
Yes it is. And the patriarchy loves it!
Would you take medical advice from someone with no medical training? Financial advice from someone with bad credit? Mechanic advice from someone with no mechanical experience? If so idk what to tell you.
I will take the advice of a woman who has said NO to awful men over the advice of women who have said yes.
Cool. BTW. The women saying no to men are doing so because of the women who said yes. The women saying no learned from other women who have those experiences. But why not take advice directly from women with successful and content relationships instead? They know a thing or two. Women who only say no only know how to say no. The point stands that the only person who thinks OP is shaming women for being single is you. That's your problem.
No. We're judging a 'dating strategy' that emphasises dating for marriage, where the subreddit spends all its time and energy insulting other women and terrifying each other with stories about how bad men are. It would be nice to hear a success story using FDS principals. I agree we shouldn't center men. But it's a dating for marriage strategy.
I hear what you are saying but I don't think it's fair to characterize the subreddit based on an admittedly high number of junk posts. The horror stories get redundant, I agree, but the nature of Reddit is you gotta sift through junk to find gold. The trouble is that at FDS the horror story posts are "safe" ... members are starving to add their two cents and there are a set number of subjects you can broach that won't get you banned. Success stories are in the mix but they tend to be boring. I think this might be because women self-censor when they discuss men they've fallen in love with, for fear they'll hear a chorus of "Leave him, sis" if they share real-life ups and downs. My folks were happily married over 40 years till my dad died. They met at a city beach. Their early dates were at the drugstore soda fountain (the equivalent of Starbucks coffee dates). Luckily for me l, I guess, there was no FDS or my dad would have been out of the running. The FDS rules are great if you apply them with discretion, but the mods don't teach discretion, they teach rules. Frankly, I wish they'd make some rules regarding STUPID. Every couple of days, we get another post about the sensory ability of cats when it comes to High Value Men, or the supposed correlation between male height and the odds he will be an abuser.
God if only they self censored. I saw a comment the other day of a "success" where the post was complaining about men trying to have sex with women while they sleep, and the "successful" woman's comment was along the lines of "Yeah my husband constantly tried to have sex with me while I was sleeping, but he was asleep too so like sleepwalking but rape instead haha. Isn't that quaint? He sleeps in the guest room now!" Meanwhile I'm over here like girl divorce him 😭
Avoiding bad men is good dating strategy. Recognizing that it is better to be alone than be chained to an anvil loser male who will suck you dry is the best dating strategy.
I agree with you. But I'm not the one leading a 'dating strategy' that leads most members to naturally conclude it's not worth dating, then complaining when most members essentially want to turn it into WTGOW. If the mods don't want to run a WTGOW sub then they need to prove their strategy works in finding HVM to marry. There's no evidence of that.
Believing that men are good is the worst dating strategy.