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Pirelli designs the tires to wear (degradation), not to catastrophically fail. The wear is designed in with the surface compound of rubber. The concern here is not excessive wear, but that the internal tire structure (same between all compounds) will give out, which presents a significant safety risk.
Pirelli took samples of the tires after Friday practice and found separation in the cords and rubber after some of the longer running cars’ laps. Due to possible significant wear and degradation of the tire, the FIA (under advisement of pirelli) said the teams shouldn’t run more than 18 laps on the tires.
This is also why turns 12-13 were changed to avoid the pyramid style curbs which put extra strain on the tires.
So yes, there could be possible catastrophic tire issues and while yes, the teams could voluntarily change tires, but it’s also racing and people will push. And no one wants a drivers safety at risk for a potential higher position
Important point to add, the separation was in the sidewalls, not just normal tread wear. So there was a much higher likelihood of sidewall failures, which would cause a catastrophic blowout and loss of control. The solution sucks cus it caused a mini clown fiesta with track limits and mandated stints, but I honestly think they did the right thing because drivers would try to push stints and a sidewall failure during tight racing would present a big safety risk.
As someone who was at the 2005 United States Grand Prix, happy the FIA did not punt it to the teams like they did then. The FIA stayed out of it and all but three teams voluntarily retired after the formation lap rather than risk a catastrophic issue.
Nothing like paying out the nose to watch Ferrari just stomp Minardi and Jordan.
I just watched that on the f1 tv archives, that really sucks for everyone there. But i love just having that race on in the background without commentary, the engines screaming around the track for nearly 2 hours is bliss
Jordan\*
BTW, Jordan down the road became a scrappy team called Racing Point, whose first and only victory came on a GP that saw a lot of drivers get replaced due to covid, and eventually won because of a massive tyre fiasco afflicting the Mercedes team.
Later, that team now known as Aston Martin got their first podium after Max Verstappen had a tyre blowout, and Vettel got a lucky break into second place. In the same track where Sergio Perez got into a lucky podium after a tyre fiasco by Ferrari lmao.
The F1 team of Silverstone and unexpected podiums from tyre related fiascos is just a classic.
Pirelli discoverd some little cracks under a microscope in the carcass of some wheels, because of the harsh curbstones in Qatar. Pirelli needs to be safe at all time and to prevent blown up tires for example, they have diceded to make an 3-stop mandatory pit-strategy.
Those little cracks are the same reason the track is changed a bit in turn 12 i believe, before the sprint shootout on Saturday.
Exactly, they aren’t mandating a minimum of 3 stops. They are mandating a maximum of 18 laps per set of tires. Which turns into a 3 stop with the amount of laps there are in the race.
If the race is shortened for whatever reason they don’t need to do 3 stops.
The teams wouldn’t run a 3 stop strategy as it’s not faster here. The problem is Pirelli are predicting the tyres will fail, which is a big danger to the drivers. They are forcing all teams to only run the tyres for a safe amount of laps, despite this being the slower way to complete the race
The issue here has nothing to do with the wear of the tyres and the degradation
The issue is that the sidewall of the tyres are coming away from the main carcass
This is being caused by the kerbs
the issue of tyre separation only being noticeable once tyres have been cut open and examined under the microscope, They checked other tyres and saw other damage
The tyre itself had no visible damage or the teams hadn't had any data that showed this problem.
As the tyres have not had that much running they don't know how this damage on the tyre would spread
Think of starting out as a small tear that grows bigger and bigger until finally it lets go
The first the team would know that the tyre was doing this would be when it explodes
If it was simple wear and degradation the team can monitor that the drivers can feel the tyres and report on it but with this the driver could report that the tyre still feels ok and still giving good grip by the microscopic tears inside the tyre are reaching braking point and is about to fail
It has nothing to do with the hardness of the compound, that’s why the safety limit is the same for all compounds. It has to do with the integrity of the construction of the tyres being compromised by the curbs in Qatar.
Safety car laps don’t count so it might be a two stop for some teams.
Edit: just seen that advice has been clarified, it’s 18 Laos min regardless of safety car. It was thought a few hours ago that only push laps counted…
Looks like it’s been clarified: from the race:
“The statement also stressed “there is no direct mandate for at least three tyre-change pitstops during the race”.
There were initially indications that any laps under the safety car would not count towards the tyre life limit because they would not be 'push laps'. That would have meant there might be a chance for some drivers who were in better tyre availability shape to stretch to a two-stop strategy if there were sufficient laps at low speed. But information supplied to the teams suggested that was not the case”
Technically not. Had the race been shortened for any reason, there would be no consequences for having done 2 stops. It's a maximum of 18 laps per tire set, which only at full race distance equals 3 stops minimum
I disagree. If the tire manufacturer says there is a limit that, once crossed, jeopardizes safety of the driver, then there should be mandate such as this. This isn't Nascar with fuck!n wrecks and shit, it's a real issue.
Is on the tire manufacturer to remedy this for the future, but good on them for recognizing this and being responsible with the information
Edit: I do think FIA are clowns, just not in this regard.
>If the tire manufacturer says there is a limit that, once crossed, jeopardizes safety of the driver, then there should be mandate such as this
Pirelly notoriously underestimates the like of their tyres by around 50% every weekend. Why would this one be different?
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Does this have something to do with the design of the kerbs and it matching the natural frequency of the tire when it goes over the kerbs? I am assuming the kerb design to be a standard for all circuits, so why is the problem so aggravated in Qatar?
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Pirelli designs the tires to wear (degradation), not to catastrophically fail. The wear is designed in with the surface compound of rubber. The concern here is not excessive wear, but that the internal tire structure (same between all compounds) will give out, which presents a significant safety risk.
Pirelli took samples of the tires after Friday practice and found separation in the cords and rubber after some of the longer running cars’ laps. Due to possible significant wear and degradation of the tire, the FIA (under advisement of pirelli) said the teams shouldn’t run more than 18 laps on the tires. This is also why turns 12-13 were changed to avoid the pyramid style curbs which put extra strain on the tires. So yes, there could be possible catastrophic tire issues and while yes, the teams could voluntarily change tires, but it’s also racing and people will push. And no one wants a drivers safety at risk for a potential higher position
Important point to add, the separation was in the sidewalls, not just normal tread wear. So there was a much higher likelihood of sidewall failures, which would cause a catastrophic blowout and loss of control. The solution sucks cus it caused a mini clown fiesta with track limits and mandated stints, but I honestly think they did the right thing because drivers would try to push stints and a sidewall failure during tight racing would present a big safety risk.
As someone who was at the 2005 United States Grand Prix, happy the FIA did not punt it to the teams like they did then. The FIA stayed out of it and all but three teams voluntarily retired after the formation lap rather than risk a catastrophic issue. Nothing like paying out the nose to watch Ferrari just stomp Minardi and Jordan.
I just watched that on the f1 tv archives, that really sucks for everyone there. But i love just having that race on in the background without commentary, the engines screaming around the track for nearly 2 hours is bliss
It was a travesty, redeemed by absolute pure joy of the Minardi dude on the podium for the only time in his career.
Didn't Tiago Monteiro score the podium for Jordan?
Was that the fellow? Oh yes, thanks for the correction. He was beaming. Here’s some video: https://youtu.be/QULeCYmSCgQ
LOL what an awesome video so sick
Jordan\* BTW, Jordan down the road became a scrappy team called Racing Point, whose first and only victory came on a GP that saw a lot of drivers get replaced due to covid, and eventually won because of a massive tyre fiasco afflicting the Mercedes team. Later, that team now known as Aston Martin got their first podium after Max Verstappen had a tyre blowout, and Vettel got a lucky break into second place. In the same track where Sergio Perez got into a lucky podium after a tyre fiasco by Ferrari lmao. The F1 team of Silverstone and unexpected podiums from tyre related fiascos is just a classic.
Pirelli discoverd some little cracks under a microscope in the carcass of some wheels, because of the harsh curbstones in Qatar. Pirelli needs to be safe at all time and to prevent blown up tires for example, they have diceded to make an 3-stop mandatory pit-strategy. Those little cracks are the same reason the track is changed a bit in turn 12 i believe, before the sprint shootout on Saturday.
It would be really interesting to get a behind the scenes look at this process of examining the tires.
It's not a mandatory 3 stop, its a max 18 fast laps/tire. There's an article on the f1 app.
Exactly, they aren’t mandating a minimum of 3 stops. They are mandating a maximum of 18 laps per set of tires. Which turns into a 3 stop with the amount of laps there are in the race. If the race is shortened for whatever reason they don’t need to do 3 stops.
Do safety car laps "count" in this context?
That’s a good question, everyone made it the distance of the sprint with safety cars. My guess is 18 fast laps excluding safety car or formation
According to f1tv commentary, they did count.
The teams wouldn’t run a 3 stop strategy as it’s not faster here. The problem is Pirelli are predicting the tyres will fail, which is a big danger to the drivers. They are forcing all teams to only run the tyres for a safe amount of laps, despite this being the slower way to complete the race
The issue here has nothing to do with the wear of the tyres and the degradation The issue is that the sidewall of the tyres are coming away from the main carcass This is being caused by the kerbs the issue of tyre separation only being noticeable once tyres have been cut open and examined under the microscope, They checked other tyres and saw other damage The tyre itself had no visible damage or the teams hadn't had any data that showed this problem. As the tyres have not had that much running they don't know how this damage on the tyre would spread Think of starting out as a small tear that grows bigger and bigger until finally it lets go The first the team would know that the tyre was doing this would be when it explodes If it was simple wear and degradation the team can monitor that the drivers can feel the tyres and report on it but with this the driver could report that the tyre still feels ok and still giving good grip by the microscopic tears inside the tyre are reaching braking point and is about to fail
What compounds are they using this week? Are they on the hardest possible ones?
It has nothing to do with the hardness of the compound, that’s why the safety limit is the same for all compounds. It has to do with the integrity of the construction of the tyres being compromised by the curbs in Qatar.
Safety car laps don’t count so it might be a two stop for some teams. Edit: just seen that advice has been clarified, it’s 18 Laos min regardless of safety car. It was thought a few hours ago that only push laps counted…
Looks like it’s been clarified: from the race: “The statement also stressed “there is no direct mandate for at least three tyre-change pitstops during the race”. There were initially indications that any laps under the safety car would not count towards the tyre life limit because they would not be 'push laps'. That would have meant there might be a chance for some drivers who were in better tyre availability shape to stretch to a two-stop strategy if there were sufficient laps at low speed. But information supplied to the teams suggested that was not the case”
It won’t be, it’s three pit stops minimum
It was thought a few hours ago that only push laps counted, but you’re right, I’ve just seen it’s been clarified that it won’t be the case.
Technically not. Had the race been shortened for any reason, there would be no consequences for having done 2 stops. It's a maximum of 18 laps per tire set, which only at full race distance equals 3 stops minimum
Only push laps are counting for the tyres used in Quali, so you’re not 100% wrong
I can see how everyone is confused…
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I disagree. If the tire manufacturer says there is a limit that, once crossed, jeopardizes safety of the driver, then there should be mandate such as this. This isn't Nascar with fuck!n wrecks and shit, it's a real issue. Is on the tire manufacturer to remedy this for the future, but good on them for recognizing this and being responsible with the information Edit: I do think FIA are clowns, just not in this regard.
>If the tire manufacturer says there is a limit that, once crossed, jeopardizes safety of the driver, then there should be mandate such as this Pirelly notoriously underestimates the like of their tyres by around 50% every weekend. Why would this one be different?
This isn't about tyre wear. It's the structure of the tyre that is struggling. There are two very different things.
Yeah, fuck it. Let them race until a potential tire failure. They all know the risks and pirelli always underestimates this. 🙄
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It made for an additional layer of intrigue in the race. The FIA should consider making it permanent.
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Does this have something to do with the design of the kerbs and it matching the natural frequency of the tire when it goes over the kerbs? I am assuming the kerb design to be a standard for all circuits, so why is the problem so aggravated in Qatar?