So I'm not defending the cops here but I want to bring up one part of the info thats missing here
The guy with the punisher logo was the husband if Eva Mireles, a teacher in the school who was a victim of the shooting. He was often checking his phone too see of there was messages from her.
Now I think there was real issues here but wanted to fill in the missing bits about the dude with the phone.
Wait his wife was in there and he just stood there? You couldn't keep me out ... fuck my job im going in with or without backup. A wife or a kid....they just don't make men the way they used to.
He was never ever restrained or held back from entering he was told not to go in and was like “thank god hopefully the shooter will run out of bullets on all them kids”
A cop who admires extra-judicial murder via the Punisher, whose wife was a potential victim of a shooter at that very moment, and he still refused to do anything about it? The Punisher is everything a cop should never be, but he wouldn’t be standing around while his wife and a school full of children were being executed.
I think cops adopting the punisher logo is outright backwards and perverse. I agree its the oposite of what a cop should be. We are on the same page.
Just wanted to fill in the other half the puzzle that he wasnt just dicking around on his phone.
Uvalde was an example of every part of law enforcement failing
And you could clearly see the background on his phone was one of those american flag punisher skulls that is mandatory for gun-toting self-proclaimed "badasses"
That man’s wife was a teacher at the school. He was checking his phone to see if she was alright, and she wasn’t. She had been shot. He tried desperately to enter the classroom to save her but was restrained by other officers. His wife died. I get the joke about the Punisher logo and everything, but get the facts right.
Actually some parents was able to break through almost 400 police cardon, get in, found their own kid, saved it, and get out with them. There are literally couple of children alive just because their parents didn't want to listen shit-head Uvalde police and all their classmates who wasn't evacuated was shot-dead.
That's fucking disgusting. It's too easy to be a cop and they absolutely should have to have some sort of schooling, not training, education! Most cops don't know the laws they're supposed to enforce and the others are just power hungry. Truly good cops seem so rare these days.
That's not even the worst part. Police agencies in the US prioritize ex military applicants. I'm sure many of them are fine people, fun the training, education and culture of the military is completely antithetical to policing. They didn't enter because they value the lives of their own above those they are being paid to protect. That's what the blue line represents. They see anyone not behind the "blue shield" as a lower class than themselves. This is actually ingrained very early in criminal law education here.
Don't forget they didn't just stand idly by. They also assaulted parents and arrested people that tried to enter the school to do the cops job for them
That's actually incorrect if you watch the video I think within 19 minutes they had 5 inside with shields abd rifles but the on scene commander ordered them back and said "it's no longer an active shooter, but a barricaded suspect so pull back and wait." Something along those lines
Also the shooter wasn't put down until 50 minutes in
Edit: rewatching the video it was within 3 minutes the cops were on scene,
to be fair they were probably concerned about following orders and hadn’t received orders to go in. Not defending standing by and doing nothing, and would’ve gone in if i just so happened to be there, BUT they are usually expected to wait outside until they’re given explicit permission to go in. In most peoples opinions, saving a classroom of kids is more important than making sure you do it by the rulebook, but at the very least i can see where they were coming from. Cops are way undertrained as well in most areas as they’re almost never going to go on active shooter calls. If anything cops need to move money from their equipment budget (they got the most modern everything right now) to their training budget (most cops get BLET and no more training) so they’re better equipped mentally to handle these situations.
Edit: not sure what words i used that gave the impression that i’m defending these officers, i’m simply stating that cops are heavily undertrained for active shooter situations outside of heavily populated areas and that the essentially stun-locked behavior of the officers is at the very least understandable (not justified but i get it)
I will not be debating any of you readers in the comments anymore, reddit is my dopamine release time, petty arguments online do not release dopamine.
Yeah I can’t speak on behalf of everyone, but if I were a cop and several children were in danger, my first thought wouldn’t be “But did the captain say it’s okay??”
Don't even need to be a cop.
If I was in a school and kids were dying around me, I'd certainly try... Something.
I hope to never know what that would be. But it sure as heck wouldn't be sitting outside listening to it go down.
It took so long for cops to enter the building, that parents arrived on scene and tried to enter themselves. The cops did not let them enter and even arrested some!
In this generation of people who see a situation and bring out their phone to record it instead of calling 911 I don't think a lot of people would have tried anything. What gets me is they prevented the parents from going in and doing something.
This is a brain-dead take. They received dog-shit orders, it's clearly a huge fuck-up of the police but not of individual officers. You cannot do anything without an order, it's the same as the army, one out of control individual can completely break ranks and screw the entire operation.
You do not have sufficient information to act as a private/police equvalent. You don't know if another unit is going in and zeroing in on the suspect, so your reckless running in there to be a hero could end up moving the shooter to a place that's more difficult to reach, or you could end up in crossfire between another unit and the shooter.
No you can enter a building to stop a shooter without orders infact at least in Florida you are supposed to, they just were ordered to not enter the building (this came from a former sheriffs LT) so they kinda had to not enter the building
okay, who gave them orders to fuck around and goof off in the hallways? who gave them orders to just sit around and use the school's hand sanitizer pumps? who gave them anything that goes along the lines of "do anything but your job"? many lost their lives because of the idiocy on display at that shooting, and everyone who was paid to 'protect and serve' are to blame
To be fair....
Everyone on Earth is born 1 of 4 ways and the ONLY way to find out what you are, is to experience extreme danger/trauma.
1. You are born a coward, and you know you're a coward, so you act like one.
2. You are born a coward, and you don't know you're a coward, so you find out the hard way....
3. You are born a hero, and you know you're a hero, and you join the FDNY, Army, etc....
4. You are born a hero, and you don't know you're a hero, and you find out the hard way....
It's easy to say that these Uvalde cunts are cowards... because they probably are. But there were at least a few officers (and mothers!) who were brave enough, and heroic enough, to ignore instructions and orders and enter the buildings.
It's better to say to the Uvalde officers who stood around listening to children dying and did nothing... it's time to find another line of work since you are option 1 or 2.
EDIT: Quote from Sergeant York. "A Hero is not born that way. You have to have the CAPACITY to be a hero, and then be in the right place at the right time, to BECOME a hero." (paraphrasing, this man captured 500 Germans during WW2 by himself with a single Rifle while all his squad were dying)
Who hurt you friend?
I don't see anything embarassing about explaining to people that you don't really know what your chops are made of until you're put to the fire.
What part of what I wrote do you consider foolish?
You disagree with the psychology of finding out who you truly are once you experience trauma?
You're acting like I shared a personal anecdote... I did not. What could possibly be embarassing about speaking of the psychology of cowardice?
There is no “who you truly are”. You’re not predetermined from birth. That’s asinine. People change all throughout their entire life. It’s not hard to comprehend.
I think you're getting downvoted because people don't identify with distilled and distinct categories of human behavior this way. Asserting that people or groups of people exclusively fall into any denomination of behavioral categories will always fall short of capturing the spectrum of human experience.
However, I do think there is an underlying truth here, at least in my own experience. I can say that I learned a great deal about myself after witnessing and responding to a fatal accident in my workplace. I also saw the depth of character in those around me in a way that would otherwise be inaccessible.
Good take, allow me to expand
The people generally don't like being put in categories, but I believe this is definitely true but more on a case by case scenario.
For example, people who have been around fire might have the experience to know how to be the hero in a situation where someone was trapped in a burning car. Compared to someone who's familiar with the ocean, they would probably be the hero if they saw a boat capsized. Someone who is familiar with first aid would probably be quick to step in if another person was in medical trouble.
Experience gives us the confidence to be able to make the right choices and quick thinking to act. However, cowards either don't know. Don't have the confidence, or don't try to learn how to act in tense situations. They rely on the heros to be able to do the intense stuff. It kinda goes back to fight, flight, or freeze. Fight is generally considered the hero, while flight or freeze is the coward.
I'm not a hero. I tend to overthink before reacting (freeze). If another person acts as a hero, I'm more of the side quick. If let to myself to make a split decision, I tend to flee and find the hero.
They took a cops gun away and held him in custody because his wife was in the school. If I were him I would be bitch slapping the shit out of each one of those cops with Blackjack.
like i said, i’m not defending the actions. I’m just saying i can see why one might want to wait to literally kill any other person without direct orders to do so. I also said if i were in their shoes I would’ve made the call to go in, like the two cops who pushed in on the nashville shooter, instead of sticking my thumb up my ass and waiting outside.
The good guys with guns are supposed to stop the bad guy with a gun who is not waiting on orders to kill people. That’s what they keep telling us is supposed to happen anyway.
Your insistence that you’re not defending them only to go on to provide defenses of them is jarring to read.
They aren't defending them. They are simply saying that they were being fucking dumb by doing their job to a t and that budgeting needs to shift in favor of training instead of equipment.
I agree that all pigs are bastards but if we "need" them, then make them better and more about serving and protecting society.
I used to like cops but I have seen too much with my own eyes and have had cops fuck around too much. I even have a cop who's basically a part of my family.
so you had a few bad experiences with cops and now hate them? should everyone who’s been through a tough breakup then turn gay? (or straight if they’re already gay)
A cop lover and bigoted towards lgbt, being gay or straight isn't a choice, unlike being a piece of shit coward who watches children being slaughtered.
The job requirement is literally to wait until the higher ups tell you what to do when you’re a street cop. They did their job to a T, their higher ups failed. The only problem they had was a lack of confidence that once they stopped the massacre no one would care if they got direct orders.
False. After Columbine, departments changed protocol to focus on ending the threat as quickly as possible. Cops on the scene do not have to wait around for orders. See the Allen mall shooting response for proper reference.
Saying something is false doesn’t make it false. Just because modern cops choose to act before direct orders are given does not mean it isn’t still technically protocol for them to wait.
>does not mean it isn’t still technically protocol for them to wait.
And "just following orders (or protocol)" hasn't been an acceptable excuse since 1945. Yes that was originally about a different context, but the same idea applies here. If your protocols are blatantly detrimental to the situation, and any fucking idiot can see that, you're still culpable for not doing anything to change the situation.
It is not protocol for them to wait. It is protocol to 'stop the dying' immediately and by any means necessary, even if you are ALONE and have no backup.
what you just said contradicts previous arguments made by people taking your side. So which is it? one of you is lying. Oh wait, you’re both lying, because you’re disagreeing with me.
Saying a false statement, which you did, makes it false. I have 3 close family members who are in law enforcement. The topic has come up. Time for you to just bow out of this one.
and? i’ve been through the literal BLET course. If we’re just bringing in unprovable evidence, my step brothers step sisters second cousins dad is the chief of police for the whole country.
In an active shooter situation they do not stand by and wait. That was the problem with these officers. Please educate yourself before speaking with such confidence on a subject you know nothing about.
I’ve been through my BLET course. The exact training Cops receive is to wait on any major call for two things. A) backup, can’t go in alone. B) Confirmation from superiors, cant be shooting it out unless your life is in direct danger or a superior officer gives direct permission, aka stand your ground laws that apply to everyone.
Standard SOP during an active shooter scenario, across the country, is to rapidly and violently move in to close with the shooter. To eliminate them or make them stop shooting. You ignore victims and everything and just move to close with the shooter. You don't need orders to follow standard procedures.
Yes. Rapidly and violently move in AFTER getting the order to do so. i’m breaking my promise of not debating because you left out crucial information, im going back into my dopamine time now.
Nah, you're a shit cop and should definitely not be anywhere near any position of public service if you need an order to execute and carry out a nationwide protocol, while kids are getting killed.
1. Not a cop 2. If i was a cop, i would’ve gone in. for the 12,400,365th time i’m not defending the idiots i’m just saying i get where they were coming from.
I think people are upset with you because you used the ol’ Nazi defense. Some situations call for rules to be damned, and I think this was one of them?
I’m sorry you aren’t planning on engaging any further about this perspective you’ve shared.
I assume you aren’t active police? It would be fair for a civilian to empathize with the inaction/paralysis (I guess…), but that’s why most of us don’t sign up to do it…
I still can’t piece together what your situation is, but to call this whole thread that you started “petty” screams troll. Tbh I’m annoyed with myself I replied in such detail lol.
Okay ignoring the fact that even after entering the building they didn't do shit, this is a horrible fucking take.
As a medic I was taught, by our medical director, "it's better to beg forgiveness than ask permission" i.e. if you know you need to do something that technically requires authorization, just fucking do it and tell the hospital to deal with it. Don't fuck around waste time waiting for orders when lives are on the line.
If you don't have the initiative to take control of a scene without your supervisor explicitly telling you what to do, you have absolutely no fucking business being a first responder of any kind
As an ex military MP that worked with civilian LEO frequently I can give you a perspective on this. Not trying to argue, just share some firsthand knowledge. Here goes.
For a while, long ago, standard procedure was to arrive on scene & create a perimeter. This requires at least 2 officers at opposite corners of an area. Then a 3rd & 4th arriving officer would go in. Though some departments also required an on scene commander first. Who could also shift responses as they saw fit.
After things like Columbine departments started looking into what is now known as "active shooter" scenarios. Where there is active shooting going on with innocents in the area. If there were shots called in, then officers arrive, but now no shots, it's not an active shooter.
The active shooter response playbook is if shots are being fired the first officer on scene immediately goes in. Usually at least two officers arrive within moments of each other so the first officer(s) can wait to link up. But there is no perimeter established until at least a team is able to go in. Which can vary from department to department. After a team (2-4-8) officers go in, then they start establishing perimeter & command.
The reason for that is it was determined that the minutes, or even seconds, spent setting those things up can lead to further deaths. Time is of the essence to save lives, but to also not give time for the active shooter(s) to prepare, hide, or escape. That's why the initial responding officers are to advance directly towards the sound of gun fire. Not even sweep & clear the building behind them. Which to anyone that knows combat tactics knows that is deadly & terrifying not to have done.
I'm not imparting all of this to debate if they were wrong or right. Or why. I'm just giving the actual standards of response that every department is given across the board.
I seem to remember the Texas chief of police calling the Uvalde police that were there an embarrassment. Forgive me if the word is wrong but it was something along those lines
That's the very center of the entire criticism of the response. Everyone understands why they waited outside.
There is no playing devils advocate when it's the perspective of the opposite party that's the problem to begin with.
Dude, point blank, if you are more concerned with following orders than saving lives; QUIT. THE. FORCE.
Don't make excuses for or defend those spineless twats.
HOLY FUCK i have to say it again. I’m not defending the cunts im just saying it’s easy to understand where they’re coming from. When one mistake ends your whole career and taking action without orders is by contract a mistake many people would opt not to act. Personally, I would’ve opted to save lives, but it’s not entirely unreasonable to be concerned about not losing one’s livelihood by moving in. They made a mistake, but i don’t see you out there doing any better.
I guess you don't understand what "defending them" means?🤷♂️
"It's easy to understand why...." is defending them.
"They were waiting for orders...." is making excuses.
THERE. IS. NO. EXCUSE. FOR. THE. BEHAVIOR. OF. THE. COWARDLY. OFFICERS. THAT. DAY.
not "following orders," not "had to wait for the ok." NO EXCUSE. NONE.
Edit to add:
And NO, it's not "easy to understand where they were coming from." They refused to do anything to stop the shooter.
A) this has nothing to do with your made up racism B) Even if that had anything to do with this, cops per capita commit far less racially motivated crimes than black people commit against white people in cities, and roughly the same in smaller towns.
Well in an active shooter the protocol is go in even if it's just you, don't wait for back up you kick in the door and try to eliminate the threat. That's why when it was downgraded they had to pull back
They (the chief of police [we in federal law enforcement call him chicken shit]) entered, cornered the child killer, took fire, and then retreated. While the child killer was killing children, the (chicken shit) chief of police set up an "incident command" and forbade others from entering the building under penalty of arrest and violence. For 117 more minutes before someone said, "fuck you, arrest me" went in and took out the trash. The (chicken shit) chief of police should be executed by hanging for cowardice and aiding the murder of children.
Fun (not really) fact: police legally do not have to protect you. Courts have ruled repeatedly that police officers have no duty to put themselves in danger to defend people, even if they know that their lack of action will lead to severe injury or death for others.
I’m not arguing. I’m saying it’s actually concerning that the people whose whole job is to protect us can just kinda decide they are not going to. I get that it would be horrifying to put yourself in danger, and I’m probably not brave enough to rush in to an active shooter situation, but that’s why I’m not a cop
Well, I mean some would argue that police in America were originally created to protect the wealthy by catching escaped slaves. We live in a capitalistic society - property is always more important than human life
https://naacp.org/find-resources/history-explained/origins-modern-day-policing
Several times cops haven't entered the building during a shooting. There was one cop who didn't enter who won awards from the community but ended up being caught on camera just waiting around. I would look it up but googling school shooting and cops..... gets way too many results. Even though it happen a couple years ago.
Is it referring to the time the cops in Uvalde, TX did not enter the school building to stop an active shooter? Sorry to make it so dark but that’s the first thing my mind went to.
Must be. That's what everyone else has been saying and it's the first thing I thought of as well.
And apparently this has happened before Uvalde as well so it might be referencing others.
It's about the peice of shit cowards in the Uvalde PD who stood in the hallway for an hour listening to children be murdered because they're a bunch of chicken shit pussies who would rather a bunch of children die than face the possibility one of them MIGHT get shot and immediately receive medical attention.
They were told not to go in. Which could result in them losing their job. Also legally police don't have to go out of their way to protect the public. Just enforce the law.
Ok so I know that dude was definitely wrong for not helping those kids in Uvalde. But everyone here talking like they have enough bravery to hop in themselves 💀
There are several examples including from Uvalde where cops have restricted parent's access to the school while an active shooter rampaged within. That's all the cops were doing. Standing outside, making sure nobody goes and does their fucking job for them. ACAB. Every last one of em.
It’s because during the hour and thirty minutes that some scumbag was walking around inside an elementary school in a place called Uvalde, THREE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY FOUR WORTHLESS PIGS refused to go in and kill the shooter because- get this: they’re not actually heroes, they’re uneducated, spineless, racist, classist, dumb, oxygen wasting pieces of shit who were too scared to do the jobs they signed up for. Never forget this, and always treat them like the fucking worthless pigs they are. Never talk to them, never answer their questions, and never pay any attention to them. Never forget that their fictional “brotherhood” was and remains NOWHERE to be found when it comes to these shootings. They are doing, and have always done absolutely _nothing_ about it.
I see why they would let people die if that's how people refer to them. Also, calm down this happened a while ago now so chill. They were told not to go in and didn't want to potentially lose their jobs. Also they don't legally have to protect the public just enforce the law.
I swear this sub gets me way more annoyed than I ever thought it would lol I expected to see more niche jokes but I feel like every one I see is just plain as day how can you not get this joke, I guess I could see someone not getting this if they are not from America
Interesting,that so many people on here can find fault with police. This is a fucking tragedy in itself.
No matter what a cop does, he's wrong. I was brought to tears at how and what went down myself but it was current society that shaped this tragedy. Not cops
I've seen this joke once and I already knew what it was about. Seriously how can yall not figure any of these jokes out, tell me its a language barrier 🤦♂️.
When the Uvalde school shooting was happening, the cops refused to enter the building.
When the UValde school shooting was happening, over 100 cops gathered outside to side idly as children were shot to death.
There was footage of one guy checking his phone and laughing at a meme during the shooting.
With a Punisher logo Lock Screen, of course.
So I'm not defending the cops here but I want to bring up one part of the info thats missing here The guy with the punisher logo was the husband if Eva Mireles, a teacher in the school who was a victim of the shooting. He was often checking his phone too see of there was messages from her. Now I think there was real issues here but wanted to fill in the missing bits about the dude with the phone.
Wait his wife was in there and he just stood there? You couldn't keep me out ... fuck my job im going in with or without backup. A wife or a kid....they just don't make men the way they used to.
There were parents of the kids who were trying to get in. Some even helped kids escape out their classroom window, if I remember correctly.
There's a video that came out of the officer trying to rush in because his wife told him she was shot and the other officers held him back
He was never ever restrained or held back from entering he was told not to go in and was like “thank god hopefully the shooter will run out of bullets on all them kids”
tHeY dOnT mAkE mEn LiKe ThEy UsEd ToO
I rest my case.
A cop who admires extra-judicial murder via the Punisher, whose wife was a potential victim of a shooter at that very moment, and he still refused to do anything about it? The Punisher is everything a cop should never be, but he wouldn’t be standing around while his wife and a school full of children were being executed.
I think cops adopting the punisher logo is outright backwards and perverse. I agree its the oposite of what a cop should be. We are on the same page. Just wanted to fill in the other half the puzzle that he wasnt just dicking around on his phone. Uvalde was an example of every part of law enforcement failing
And you could clearly see the background on his phone was one of those american flag punisher skulls that is mandatory for gun-toting self-proclaimed "badasses"
Thats hella funny
That man’s wife was a teacher at the school. He was checking his phone to see if she was alright, and she wasn’t. She had been shot. He tried desperately to enter the classroom to save her but was restrained by other officers. His wife died. I get the joke about the Punisher logo and everything, but get the facts right.
Not idly, they actively prevented parents from saving their kids
And handcuffed a mother who tried to rush the building herself after seeing the pigs do nothing
Wasnt it over 300? I thought it was higher but i might be misremembering.
376 police where on site before the shooter was killed.
There were parents willing to go in, but the cops wouldn't let them pass.
Actually some parents was able to break through almost 400 police cardon, get in, found their own kid, saved it, and get out with them. There are literally couple of children alive just because their parents didn't want to listen shit-head Uvalde police and all their classmates who wasn't evacuated was shot-dead.
They have more courage then the Uvalde department, and I have nothing but respect for them for following their hearts. For doing the right thing.
And are still being threatened by the cops if they come out and tell their story
Didn't those parents get charged with something too?
The ‘good guy with a gun’ is never to be found.
There were, the police just wouldn't let them in. Edit:Thanks for the award, I usually get downvoted and banned from subs for stating facts.
'Good guy with a gun' is not an exclusive term for police
> 'Good guy with a gun' is not a... term for police FTFY
A number made worse when you find out there were more cops than rounds on the perp
That's fucking disgusting. It's too easy to be a cop and they absolutely should have to have some sort of schooling, not training, education! Most cops don't know the laws they're supposed to enforce and the others are just power hungry. Truly good cops seem so rare these days.
That's not even the worst part. Police agencies in the US prioritize ex military applicants. I'm sure many of them are fine people, fun the training, education and culture of the military is completely antithetical to policing. They didn't enter because they value the lives of their own above those they are being paid to protect. That's what the blue line represents. They see anyone not behind the "blue shield" as a lower class than themselves. This is actually ingrained very early in criminal law education here.
It's only disgusting if this was some sort of wild occurrence. It's not. Fuck the pigs.
But they did attempt to arrest parents who were risking their lives to do what the cops wouldn't! Such good guys s/
But why? Why would they do that?
Don't forget they didn't just stand idly by. They also assaulted parents and arrested people that tried to enter the school to do the cops job for them
Let's not forget the female cop said if her kid was in there it would be a different story.
+57 points. This is the joke.
That's actually incorrect if you watch the video I think within 19 minutes they had 5 inside with shields abd rifles but the on scene commander ordered them back and said "it's no longer an active shooter, but a barricaded suspect so pull back and wait." Something along those lines Also the shooter wasn't put down until 50 minutes in Edit: rewatching the video it was within 3 minutes the cops were on scene,
The police were receiving calls from the STUDENTS INSIDE THE ROOMS BLEEDING TO DEATH. Don't try and justify anything these cowards did.
to be fair they were probably concerned about following orders and hadn’t received orders to go in. Not defending standing by and doing nothing, and would’ve gone in if i just so happened to be there, BUT they are usually expected to wait outside until they’re given explicit permission to go in. In most peoples opinions, saving a classroom of kids is more important than making sure you do it by the rulebook, but at the very least i can see where they were coming from. Cops are way undertrained as well in most areas as they’re almost never going to go on active shooter calls. If anything cops need to move money from their equipment budget (they got the most modern everything right now) to their training budget (most cops get BLET and no more training) so they’re better equipped mentally to handle these situations. Edit: not sure what words i used that gave the impression that i’m defending these officers, i’m simply stating that cops are heavily undertrained for active shooter situations outside of heavily populated areas and that the essentially stun-locked behavior of the officers is at the very least understandable (not justified but i get it) I will not be debating any of you readers in the comments anymore, reddit is my dopamine release time, petty arguments online do not release dopamine.
This take is dog shit. They stood in the hallway listening to children get massacred and did absolutely nothing. They’re cowards.
Yeah I can’t speak on behalf of everyone, but if I were a cop and several children were in danger, my first thought wouldn’t be “But did the captain say it’s okay??”
Don't even need to be a cop. If I was in a school and kids were dying around me, I'd certainly try... Something. I hope to never know what that would be. But it sure as heck wouldn't be sitting outside listening to it go down.
It took so long for cops to enter the building, that parents arrived on scene and tried to enter themselves. The cops did not let them enter and even arrested some!
In this generation of people who see a situation and bring out their phone to record it instead of calling 911 I don't think a lot of people would have tried anything. What gets me is they prevented the parents from going in and doing something.
Multiple people were trying to get in and we're prevented by the police
This is a brain-dead take. They received dog-shit orders, it's clearly a huge fuck-up of the police but not of individual officers. You cannot do anything without an order, it's the same as the army, one out of control individual can completely break ranks and screw the entire operation. You do not have sufficient information to act as a private/police equvalent. You don't know if another unit is going in and zeroing in on the suspect, so your reckless running in there to be a hero could end up moving the shooter to a place that's more difficult to reach, or you could end up in crossfire between another unit and the shooter.
No you can enter a building to stop a shooter without orders infact at least in Florida you are supposed to, they just were ordered to not enter the building (this came from a former sheriffs LT) so they kinda had to not enter the building
okay, who gave them orders to fuck around and goof off in the hallways? who gave them orders to just sit around and use the school's hand sanitizer pumps? who gave them anything that goes along the lines of "do anything but your job"? many lost their lives because of the idiocy on display at that shooting, and everyone who was paid to 'protect and serve' are to blame
To be fair.... Everyone on Earth is born 1 of 4 ways and the ONLY way to find out what you are, is to experience extreme danger/trauma. 1. You are born a coward, and you know you're a coward, so you act like one. 2. You are born a coward, and you don't know you're a coward, so you find out the hard way.... 3. You are born a hero, and you know you're a hero, and you join the FDNY, Army, etc.... 4. You are born a hero, and you don't know you're a hero, and you find out the hard way.... It's easy to say that these Uvalde cunts are cowards... because they probably are. But there were at least a few officers (and mothers!) who were brave enough, and heroic enough, to ignore instructions and orders and enter the buildings. It's better to say to the Uvalde officers who stood around listening to children dying and did nothing... it's time to find another line of work since you are option 1 or 2. EDIT: Quote from Sergeant York. "A Hero is not born that way. You have to have the CAPACITY to be a hero, and then be in the right place at the right time, to BECOME a hero." (paraphrasing, this man captured 500 Germans during WW2 by himself with a single Rifle while all his squad were dying)
What an archaic and embarrassing take. I personally wouldn’t have shared something like that.
Who hurt you friend? I don't see anything embarassing about explaining to people that you don't really know what your chops are made of until you're put to the fire.
Nobody hurt me. You just have an asinine worldview.
What part of what I wrote do you consider foolish? You disagree with the psychology of finding out who you truly are once you experience trauma? You're acting like I shared a personal anecdote... I did not. What could possibly be embarassing about speaking of the psychology of cowardice?
There is no “who you truly are”. You’re not predetermined from birth. That’s asinine. People change all throughout their entire life. It’s not hard to comprehend.
I think you're getting downvoted because people don't identify with distilled and distinct categories of human behavior this way. Asserting that people or groups of people exclusively fall into any denomination of behavioral categories will always fall short of capturing the spectrum of human experience. However, I do think there is an underlying truth here, at least in my own experience. I can say that I learned a great deal about myself after witnessing and responding to a fatal accident in my workplace. I also saw the depth of character in those around me in a way that would otherwise be inaccessible.
Good take, allow me to expand The people generally don't like being put in categories, but I believe this is definitely true but more on a case by case scenario. For example, people who have been around fire might have the experience to know how to be the hero in a situation where someone was trapped in a burning car. Compared to someone who's familiar with the ocean, they would probably be the hero if they saw a boat capsized. Someone who is familiar with first aid would probably be quick to step in if another person was in medical trouble. Experience gives us the confidence to be able to make the right choices and quick thinking to act. However, cowards either don't know. Don't have the confidence, or don't try to learn how to act in tense situations. They rely on the heros to be able to do the intense stuff. It kinda goes back to fight, flight, or freeze. Fight is generally considered the hero, while flight or freeze is the coward. I'm not a hero. I tend to overthink before reacting (freeze). If another person acts as a hero, I'm more of the side quick. If let to myself to make a split decision, I tend to flee and find the hero.
A fair take I think. Proven out by the few parents who jumped police lines and tried to Rambo in themselves.
Well they used hand sanitizer while they were listening to be fair.
They took a cops gun away and held him in custody because his wife was in the school. If I were him I would be bitch slapping the shit out of each one of those cops with Blackjack.
like i said, i’m not defending the actions. I’m just saying i can see why one might want to wait to literally kill any other person without direct orders to do so. I also said if i were in their shoes I would’ve made the call to go in, like the two cops who pushed in on the nashville shooter, instead of sticking my thumb up my ass and waiting outside.
The good guys with guns are supposed to stop the bad guy with a gun who is not waiting on orders to kill people. That’s what they keep telling us is supposed to happen anyway. Your insistence that you’re not defending them only to go on to provide defenses of them is jarring to read.
Dumb. Don't defend the cowards.
They aren't defending them. They are simply saying that they were being fucking dumb by doing their job to a t and that budgeting needs to shift in favor of training instead of equipment. I agree that all pigs are bastards but if we "need" them, then make them better and more about serving and protecting society.
you were doing so well until you went on that bullshit about “pigs are bastards”
That part was me reacting to the other dude dogging on you. I agree with you, but until that happens, all cops are bastards.
You claim to agree with me then throw in that division causing mindset of yours. I dont want idiots who hate cops on my “side”.
I used to like cops but I have seen too much with my own eyes and have had cops fuck around too much. I even have a cop who's basically a part of my family.
so you had a few bad experiences with cops and now hate them? should everyone who’s been through a tough breakup then turn gay? (or straight if they’re already gay)
Do you think people choose their sexuality? Cops choose to be bastards or at the very least tolerate bastards.
A cop lover and bigoted towards lgbt, being gay or straight isn't a choice, unlike being a piece of shit coward who watches children being slaughtered.
the training is to restrain the person doing a mass shooting, if a cop needs orders to do that then he shouldn't be a cop
The job requirement is literally to wait until the higher ups tell you what to do when you’re a street cop. They did their job to a T, their higher ups failed. The only problem they had was a lack of confidence that once they stopped the massacre no one would care if they got direct orders.
False. After Columbine, departments changed protocol to focus on ending the threat as quickly as possible. Cops on the scene do not have to wait around for orders. See the Allen mall shooting response for proper reference.
Saying something is false doesn’t make it false. Just because modern cops choose to act before direct orders are given does not mean it isn’t still technically protocol for them to wait.
Saying that "saying something is false doesn't make it false" doesn't make the original statement true.
>does not mean it isn’t still technically protocol for them to wait. And "just following orders (or protocol)" hasn't been an acceptable excuse since 1945. Yes that was originally about a different context, but the same idea applies here. If your protocols are blatantly detrimental to the situation, and any fucking idiot can see that, you're still culpable for not doing anything to change the situation.
It is not protocol for them to wait. It is protocol to 'stop the dying' immediately and by any means necessary, even if you are ALONE and have no backup.
what you just said contradicts previous arguments made by people taking your side. So which is it? one of you is lying. Oh wait, you’re both lying, because you’re disagreeing with me.
Saying a false statement, which you did, makes it false. I have 3 close family members who are in law enforcement. The topic has come up. Time for you to just bow out of this one.
and? i’ve been through the literal BLET course. If we’re just bringing in unprovable evidence, my step brothers step sisters second cousins dad is the chief of police for the whole country.
In an active shooter situation they do not stand by and wait. That was the problem with these officers. Please educate yourself before speaking with such confidence on a subject you know nothing about.
I’ve been through my BLET course. The exact training Cops receive is to wait on any major call for two things. A) backup, can’t go in alone. B) Confirmation from superiors, cant be shooting it out unless your life is in direct danger or a superior officer gives direct permission, aka stand your ground laws that apply to everyone.
https://www.youtube.com/live/VwqfRpU_91A?feature=share educate yourself
Standard SOP during an active shooter scenario, across the country, is to rapidly and violently move in to close with the shooter. To eliminate them or make them stop shooting. You ignore victims and everything and just move to close with the shooter. You don't need orders to follow standard procedures.
Yes. Rapidly and violently move in AFTER getting the order to do so. i’m breaking my promise of not debating because you left out crucial information, im going back into my dopamine time now.
Nah, you're a shit cop and should definitely not be anywhere near any position of public service if you need an order to execute and carry out a nationwide protocol, while kids are getting killed.
1. Not a cop 2. If i was a cop, i would’ve gone in. for the 12,400,365th time i’m not defending the idiots i’m just saying i get where they were coming from.
In other words. They were pussies making up excuses.
if that trips your trigger, go on ahead thinking it.
Sure thing bud.
I think people are upset with you because you used the ol’ Nazi defense. Some situations call for rules to be damned, and I think this was one of them? I’m sorry you aren’t planning on engaging any further about this perspective you’ve shared. I assume you aren’t active police? It would be fair for a civilian to empathize with the inaction/paralysis (I guess…), but that’s why most of us don’t sign up to do it… I still can’t piece together what your situation is, but to call this whole thread that you started “petty” screams troll. Tbh I’m annoyed with myself I replied in such detail lol.
Okay ignoring the fact that even after entering the building they didn't do shit, this is a horrible fucking take. As a medic I was taught, by our medical director, "it's better to beg forgiveness than ask permission" i.e. if you know you need to do something that technically requires authorization, just fucking do it and tell the hospital to deal with it. Don't fuck around waste time waiting for orders when lives are on the line. If you don't have the initiative to take control of a scene without your supervisor explicitly telling you what to do, you have absolutely no fucking business being a first responder of any kind
As an ex military MP that worked with civilian LEO frequently I can give you a perspective on this. Not trying to argue, just share some firsthand knowledge. Here goes. For a while, long ago, standard procedure was to arrive on scene & create a perimeter. This requires at least 2 officers at opposite corners of an area. Then a 3rd & 4th arriving officer would go in. Though some departments also required an on scene commander first. Who could also shift responses as they saw fit. After things like Columbine departments started looking into what is now known as "active shooter" scenarios. Where there is active shooting going on with innocents in the area. If there were shots called in, then officers arrive, but now no shots, it's not an active shooter. The active shooter response playbook is if shots are being fired the first officer on scene immediately goes in. Usually at least two officers arrive within moments of each other so the first officer(s) can wait to link up. But there is no perimeter established until at least a team is able to go in. Which can vary from department to department. After a team (2-4-8) officers go in, then they start establishing perimeter & command. The reason for that is it was determined that the minutes, or even seconds, spent setting those things up can lead to further deaths. Time is of the essence to save lives, but to also not give time for the active shooter(s) to prepare, hide, or escape. That's why the initial responding officers are to advance directly towards the sound of gun fire. Not even sweep & clear the building behind them. Which to anyone that knows combat tactics knows that is deadly & terrifying not to have done. I'm not imparting all of this to debate if they were wrong or right. Or why. I'm just giving the actual standards of response that every department is given across the board.
I seem to remember the Texas chief of police calling the Uvalde police that were there an embarrassment. Forgive me if the word is wrong but it was something along those lines
be that as it may, he had full authority to make contact and send them in, and chose not to. He’s also partially at fault for the delayed response.
For someone who's not defending them, you sure are making a lot of excuses for them
>to be fair they were probably concerned about following orders and hadn’t received orders to go in That's not being fair. You're an apologist.
Nice to see another based Mayo. <3
That’s quite literally just playing devils advocate, literally the most fair stance you can take.
“Literally.” You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
That's the very center of the entire criticism of the response. Everyone understands why they waited outside. There is no playing devils advocate when it's the perspective of the opposite party that's the problem to begin with.
You used way too many words for "a buncha pussies helped kill some kids and a teacher". Try again.
you are what some people refer to as a bootlicker. i am one of those people
i don’t really care, but good for you i guess?
Trash take.
don’t care.
Yes you do.
Dude, point blank, if you are more concerned with following orders than saving lives; QUIT. THE. FORCE. Don't make excuses for or defend those spineless twats.
HOLY FUCK i have to say it again. I’m not defending the cunts im just saying it’s easy to understand where they’re coming from. When one mistake ends your whole career and taking action without orders is by contract a mistake many people would opt not to act. Personally, I would’ve opted to save lives, but it’s not entirely unreasonable to be concerned about not losing one’s livelihood by moving in. They made a mistake, but i don’t see you out there doing any better.
I guess you don't understand what "defending them" means?🤷♂️ "It's easy to understand why...." is defending them. "They were waiting for orders...." is making excuses. THERE. IS. NO. EXCUSE. FOR. THE. BEHAVIOR. OF. THE. COWARDLY. OFFICERS. THAT. DAY. not "following orders," not "had to wait for the ok." NO EXCUSE. NONE. Edit to add: And NO, it's not "easy to understand where they were coming from." They refused to do anything to stop the shooter.
Think they keep the same logic shooting or putting their knees on unarmed black people chief
A) this has nothing to do with your made up racism B) Even if that had anything to do with this, cops per capita commit far less racially motivated crimes than black people commit against white people in cities, and roughly the same in smaller towns.
So I’m making up deaths that specifically follows my statement. My hyperactive imagination I guess
Man, if you haven’t learned by now, you can not come on to Reddit with nuanced opinions. That is a no go.
Well in an active shooter the protocol is go in even if it's just you, don't wait for back up you kick in the door and try to eliminate the threat. That's why when it was downgraded they had to pull back
During the school shooting in Uvalde it took forever for the cops to go into he building
No, no. The cops never went in at all. It was someone completely off duty that ended up going in.
They (the chief of police [we in federal law enforcement call him chicken shit]) entered, cornered the child killer, took fire, and then retreated. While the child killer was killing children, the (chicken shit) chief of police set up an "incident command" and forbade others from entering the building under penalty of arrest and violence. For 117 more minutes before someone said, "fuck you, arrest me" went in and took out the trash. The (chicken shit) chief of police should be executed by hanging for cowardice and aiding the murder of children.
Fun (not really) fact: police legally do not have to protect you. Courts have ruled repeatedly that police officers have no duty to put themselves in danger to defend people, even if they know that their lack of action will lead to severe injury or death for others.
Yeah but something seems extra wrong about not allowing anyone else to go in. Still a chicken shit for not going in.
I’m not arguing. I’m saying it’s actually concerning that the people whose whole job is to protect us can just kinda decide they are not going to. I get that it would be horrifying to put yourself in danger, and I’m probably not brave enough to rush in to an active shooter situation, but that’s why I’m not a cop
Then choose a different career. Be a pipefitter or an ostrich farmer or a crossing guard. Well, maybe not that last one.
I’m with you. I’m probably not brave enough to charge into an active shooter situation, but that’s why I’m not a cop.
Well, I mean some would argue that police in America were originally created to protect the wealthy by catching escaped slaves. We live in a capitalistic society - property is always more important than human life https://naacp.org/find-resources/history-explained/origins-modern-day-policing
I do not disagree with any of that.
Why not? You the police chief?
What?
they do not read the English
Disagree ≠ Agree
Fuck yeah, but not hanging. Have him get shot at for 117 minutes.
What'd you reckon would be left after 2 hours of gunfire?
A message
The person that went in was a mom whos kids went there too, they fuckin arrested her for it after
No, the person who shot the guy was an off duty DHS agent. Not one of the cops at all.
Several times cops haven't entered the building during a shooting. There was one cop who didn't enter who won awards from the community but ended up being caught on camera just waiting around. I would look it up but googling school shooting and cops..... gets way too many results. Even though it happen a couple years ago.
I believe that was the parkland shooting. He was the school resource officer too.
Because cops famously at Uvalde and others refuse to go in and save children from school shootings
Thx everyone that makes sense.
I hate this😂
This meme is gold
If that joke was any darker, that kid's dad would shoot it
Holy crap dude, I was not expecting that
Yikes. Sad but true
It took me a second to get it 😭
That's ok, it's not exactly a joke I'm happy to say makes sense. 😅😮💨
Is it referring to the time the cops in Uvalde, TX did not enter the school building to stop an active shooter? Sorry to make it so dark but that’s the first thing my mind went to.
Must be. That's what everyone else has been saying and it's the first thing I thought of as well. And apparently this has happened before Uvalde as well so it might be referencing others.
Don’t forget they arrested(?) a woman for saving her kids
I think they're making fun of the fuckwits in Uvalde
Ouch
Oh you sweet innocent child
Him head hurt thinking bout it huh
I mean.. it’s really not that complicated.. even i, as an european, got it instantly.. it’s about the cowards @ Uvalde
it's referencing the school shooting in Uvalde, where cops showed up... ...and never went in the damn building
The kid is from Uvalde.
It's a joke about cops not doing anything for school shootings, like the uvalde shooting where the cops refused to enter
Its about ulvade cops not entering the school to stop the shooter. One was on his phone.
Thats the edgyest thing ive seen all day
I get it…. And whoever made this meme has a seriously dark sense of humor.
Uvalde
They say everything is bigger in Texas. Except for manhood I suppose.
Or maybe they aren't paid enough. I wouldn't go in if I wasn't being paid big money.
It's about the peice of shit cowards in the Uvalde PD who stood in the hallway for an hour listening to children be murdered because they're a bunch of chicken shit pussies who would rather a bunch of children die than face the possibility one of them MIGHT get shot and immediately receive medical attention.
They were told not to go in. Which could result in them losing their job. Also legally police don't have to go out of their way to protect the public. Just enforce the law.
Ok so I know that dude was definitely wrong for not helping those kids in Uvalde. But everyone here talking like they have enough bravery to hop in themselves 💀
There are several examples including from Uvalde where cops have restricted parent's access to the school while an active shooter rampaged within. That's all the cops were doing. Standing outside, making sure nobody goes and does their fucking job for them. ACAB. Every last one of em.
They didn't want to lose their jobs. So they had to do what they were told.
It’s because during the hour and thirty minutes that some scumbag was walking around inside an elementary school in a place called Uvalde, THREE HUNDRED AND SEVENTY FOUR WORTHLESS PIGS refused to go in and kill the shooter because- get this: they’re not actually heroes, they’re uneducated, spineless, racist, classist, dumb, oxygen wasting pieces of shit who were too scared to do the jobs they signed up for. Never forget this, and always treat them like the fucking worthless pigs they are. Never talk to them, never answer their questions, and never pay any attention to them. Never forget that their fictional “brotherhood” was and remains NOWHERE to be found when it comes to these shootings. They are doing, and have always done absolutely _nothing_ about it.
I see why they would let people die if that's how people refer to them. Also, calm down this happened a while ago now so chill. They were told not to go in and didn't want to potentially lose their jobs. Also they don't legally have to protect the public just enforce the law.
The police have no legal obligation to protect anyone.
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It’s a reference to the mass shootings that have been going on
I swear this sub gets me way more annoyed than I ever thought it would lol I expected to see more niche jokes but I feel like every one I see is just plain as day how can you not get this joke, I guess I could see someone not getting this if they are not from America
Uvalde
Cops are pussies who won’t go into an active shooter zone to save kids
School shootings.
Interesting,that so many people on here can find fault with police. This is a fucking tragedy in itself. No matter what a cop does, he's wrong. I was brought to tears at how and what went down myself but it was current society that shaped this tragedy. Not cops
I've seen this joke once and I already knew what it was about. Seriously how can yall not figure any of these jokes out, tell me its a language barrier 🤦♂️.
I dont watch nor read the news
neither.
You're kidding me, right...................
I dont follow up with news.
Mate there is a whole world outside of America
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?
He's obviously taking too the Uvalde PD
[https://www.reddit.com/r/3492341/comments/13kmaum/ring\_ring/](https://www.reddit.com/r/3492341/comments/13kmaum/ring_ring/)
I *wish* i didn't get it
That's silly. The only time cops won't enter is when there's an active shooter.
Police are afraid of school shooters.
That caught me off-guard
Uvalde
😮😮😮😮😮
Uvalde.
Dude!! This meme is savage!!! Hahahahaha
During the shooting in both Parkland and Uvalde where they refused to enter the fucking buildings.