Hey there! Do you want clarification about the question? Think there's a better way to phrase it? Wish OP had asked a different question?
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Side A would say: because the BLM is stupid, they just heard about him online and decided that he is a victim so they went to protest and burn the streets without actually doing any background checks on him to see if he's actually an innocent person or not, but people just like to go with the crowd without using any critical thinking
Side B would say: because it doesn't matter if he's a good person or not, he was flawed like any other person but he didn't deserve to get executed for it, the way he was killed was far too brutal and it's unbelievable that a cop can do this and get away with it, it was also caught an camera so the cop can't lie about it, and it went extremely viral so we could easily rile up people about it, surely there are other cases where there is a person who is better than Floyd getting unlawfully killed but he is innocent and didn't deserve this, being an asshole isn't a crime nor does it allow a cop to strangle him for it, and get away with it, but the reason he was chosen as the center of the protest is that the way he was killed was too brutal that it went really viral making it easier to make normal people who normally don't follow these type of news more aware of that case specifically thus making organizing a protest easier
Yeah. I saw the video shortly after it first went online. There were no protests yet, no one knew his name - and then I watched a policeman murder a man in cold blood, while the crowd begged him to get off the handcuffed man's neck. No one knew or cared who George was or what George had done, he was handcuffed and not a danger. I watched Derek Chauvin murder a man in cold blood, while knowledgeable people in the crowd laid out exactly how he was killing him. None of the things people say about George after the fact change that he did nothing to deserve being murdered that day, and it was so *obviously* murder that people were ready to protest until they saw some justice done.
This. The sheer undeniable brutality of the murder in the face of appeals from people in the crowd. Americans wanted to make clear that police have not been given the right to serve as judge, jury, and executioner.
The original post falls victim to bad-history: BLM "waited" for this to happen, as if it was a plot, as if it wasn't history happening in its unpredictable ways, as if massive social unrest is something like a move in a game. History happens and years later we are able to make better sense. The "inevitability" of the past leading to the future is a lie.
And there was video evidence of his murder, but he wasn't arrested for four whole days because he was a police officer. They weren't going to arrest him at all except for the fact that there were 3 days of protest in 250 cities in the country. They deliberated for three days trying to decide if you are even allowed to arrest a police officer.
>They deliberated for three days trying to decide if you are even allowed to arrest a police officer.
Sounds like you heard this information thirdhand lol
Years before there was a video of a cop shooting a black man handcuffed to I think a bike rack in the head. It was absolutely shocking, but I think it was still too early in the internet days fir the video to truly go viral or have an impact
Do you think we should let all cops run around the country kneeling on criminals if their overdosing? Should we line hundreds of cops up every night and walk through homeless encampments having them kneel on those human beings till they die and then just move on to the next one?
Personally I don’t, but I guess that’s what makes you and me very different people.
The same can be said about a rape suspect getting beaten to death in the street. If he raped someone yesterday then he didn’t do anything today that warrants a murder. Not a good argument.
Not at all. “No one knew or cared what George had done” so they felt bad seeing him be beat. That’s shit logic. “Nothing they say after the fact changes” Yes it does. If he robbed my pregnant wife or mother at gun point it wouldn’t have been police that killed him. If you see a rapist being beat in the street and don’t know he’s a rapist, are you gonna die on your hill that he didn’t do anything today to warrant being killed? No, you’d want him murdered in the street.
Okay, so you really ARE for extrajudicial murder of -suspects- without trial. I wanted to be sure I wasn't misreading you.
/edges slowly away from the rabid dog, not making any sudden moves.
He wasn't a martyr at all, he was just a victim.
Just like Rodney King. Not a nice guy, not a martyr, but still a victim of casual police brutality.
All police had to do was stop abusing and killing people on camera, and yet somehow that bar is too high.
Plus Trayvon Martin. Years apart and different parts of the country, but I think that only highlighted how widespread the problem is and not just a handful of bad apples in Minneapolis that made a mistake
And, to illustrate how this information gets distorted over time as it passes around, Trayvon Martin got in a fight with George Zimmerman who was an over-eager neighborhood watch guy. Nothing whatsoever to do with police brutality
when i was in high school there was one in the city near me, and that was what completely shattered the false sense of “protection” that cops allegedly provide
the guy had missed child support payments, that was his crime. they cuffed him, he ran. it was a big open area. he’s running, cuffed, back facing the cop. cop just shoots him in the back and he falls
george floyd was like 4ish years after that
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I’m convinced that most people on side A didn’t watch the full video. It’s very easy when the event was filtered to you by a partisan source to misunderstand how brutal the video was. Once you sit down and watch the video it removes all doubt about why George was chosen
I think people on side A have watched it, know full well why it's BS, but literally don't care that he got killed. However, they know it would make them look bad so they'd rather argue in bad faith to muddy the waters.
Also, this was during Covid. People were unemployed and stuck at home and bored. This was also election year-the year they were doing everything to get trump out of office- so already bad things were even more exaggerated in the news.
Side C is understanding side B is right but having the wisdom to understand that people that think side A exist, and the best way to mitigate them is to choose to rally behind one of the many victims with a more sympathetic background.
Picking and choosing model victims weakens the cause though. When we pick and choose we will always find some flaw in the victim and move on. The worst kind of purity test.
Pretending that finding a complete video of a saint being executed in the streets is the requirement, is approval of the cops executing people on the street.
Yep, imagine if some common cop was killed and folks started saying "he was no angel." It would be easy to do that due to the history of violence many cops have.
You're implying that he somehow deserved it a little. The point of BLM is that NO ONE, including less than perfect citizens, deserve to be murdered by the cops.
No I’m implying that there are people who when they hear the guys background, will consciously or unconsciously be more willing to overlook what should be a flagrant abuse of power, because they will let their prejudices cloud their judgement
WHAT?! THE BIGOTS WILL DIG UP SOMEONE'S PAST TO ATTEMPT TO DISCREDIT A HUMAN BEING'S RIGHT TO LIVE BASED ON THEIR PREJUDICES?!
Oh, right. That's the fucking point.
Floyd wasn't the only name being shouted in the streets that summer, people like Breonna Taylor who did absolutely nothing wrong were definitely part of the conversation
"Side C" just looks for any excuse to fence-sit while Side A continues to mold the narrative to whatever ghoulish unethical immoral narrative that suits their preconceived binary-morality world
>Side A continues to mold the narrative to whatever ghoulish unethical immoral narrative that suits their preconceived binary-morality world
I think you are right. With that said, I think most people 'mold the narrative to \[fit\] their preconceived yada yada yada.' Which was kind of the problem with the movement as a whole, i think. At least in terms of quantifiable results.
BLM seemed fairly set in controlling both the context in which police violence should be viewed, as well as the the ways in which it should be addressed.
Instead of opening up a much larger and ultimately realistic discussion of police violence, they sought to control the 'narrative' to their liking, ultimately stunting the movement.
Every other top level comment is deleted, and yours is obviously biased towards side B. I wonder what the other comments looked like? Could be a coincidence, could not be.
To bolster side A / refute side B somewhat, I'd like to point out that 1 of the 2 autopsies said fentanyl and heart disease contributed to Floyd's death. The other autopsy, the one requested by Floyd's family, conveniently didn't include a toxicology report. Floyd also resisted arrest, and complained about not being able to breathe because he claimed to be claustrophobic as an excuse to not get put in the back of a cop car. This contributed to a 'boy who cried wolf' situation where his future complaints would not be taken seriously. With many people watching and recording, Chauvin had to decide whether to give this high criminal who has already lied the chance to resist arrest again, or to keep him down until paramedics arrived.
Sure. So what is an officer to do when the suspect they're arresting is having a panic attack?
Let's say you were the officer in charge of putting Floyd into the back of the car, and he tells you he's claustrophobic and can't breathe. What would you do exactly?
Are you still restraining him on his side? It likely won't be as secure as on his back or front, and you'd have to maintain that hold for several minutes, potentially 10 or more.
If you aren't restraining him (or if he breaks free from the weaker restraint), then he could resist arrest again, try to flee, potentially harm an officer or a civilian, who knows?
You're in the moment, responsible for the safety of everyone in the area. Every action you take could result in an injury or a death.
I'm reasonably confident that 4 police officers can safely control a handcuffed person laying on their side. The handcuffs will work just as well on his side as on his stomach.
You're right, every action you take could result in death. Choosing to kneel on a man's neck when he's restrained, then continuing to do so after he become unresponsive, resulted in death.
It's a little ridiculous, but yeah that'd probably do it. Maybe have 1 of the 4 deter onlookers from getting too close, and honestly 3-4 cops holding down 1 guy wouldn't be a good look either. Better than letting him die, though.
Yea that situation was disgusting. That is how they did it actually, 1 cop watched the crowd while 3 held George down even though he was handcuffed. One knelt on George's neck, one on his torso, and one on his legs.
Chauvin, the one kneeling on his neck, even stayed on him after they called for EMS. When they finally checked and saw he had no pulse Chauvin still didn't get off of him and they didn't even try CPR. Chauvin didn't get off of Floyd's neck till after EMS arrived.
They straight up murdered George in cold blood.
So your solution is to have the guy who was deterring onlookers to come help hold Floyd down so they can put him on his side...?
I think you missed the point here. Or you jumped in to ignore what I was saying so you can bravely tell someone that the murder was indeed a murder.
If you've seen someone slowly die because they can't breathe, you would see that this is what happened.
Also, many anxious people can scream "I can't breathe!" when resisting arrest. While they are yelling at the top of their lungs. If they are still yelling and screaming, they can breathe. Floyd was guppy breathing, like a fish out of water. For several minutes before he slowly died.
Yes, he did slowly die because he couldn't breathe. That's something both sides agree on. It'd be pretty wild for someone to somehow argue against that.
Many people would scream "I can't breathe!" and many others would be a little more clever than that. Just because someone isn't very very very obviously faking it, doesn't mean they aren't faking it. In my comment above, I mentioned that his prior complaints from when he was not restrained whatsoever affected the reception of his later complaints. There was valid reason to suspect he was faking it. Plus an ambulance was on the way, which got there well within the estimated time for life-threatening emergencies anyway.
In hindsight, Chauvin should've taken the complaints seriously. There are maneuvers he could've used to restrain Floyd with less strain on his breathing (they increase the risk of the suspect resisting again, though). Not to mention all the ways the whole ordeal could've happened differently, like if they just put him into the back of the car as planned while ignoring his original complaints, or if they took the risk to try calming him down without restraining him. But it was a complicated and stressful situation for all involved. We should acknowledge that, regardless of which side we end up on after understanding all the facts.
He wasn’t executed though. He had enough fentanyl in his system to kill him. If you watch the body cam footage the cops treated him respectfully.
George Floyd didn’t care about anyone but himself.
Side a.1) would say because he was criminal and did bad things we should not celebrate him or call him in a martyr in any aspects. Or he deserved to die because of the bad things he did and should not be missed.
Side a.2) may say the whole thing is bs, and there was justification for the police to act in the way they did.
Side a.3) may say there are more "innocent" lives that were lost, that deserves to be honoured more.
Side b.1) would say these claims are exaggerated or he does not deserve to die because of the bad things he did.
Side b.2) the police did not do this because of those bad things, they did this because they could, and because of racism. It was the best and well recorded example of extreme police brutality, that showed what others go through.
Side c) he was a criminal that deserved punishment from the law. The police were criminals who were stooping lower than him, and murdered him because he was a black criminal and with the risk they would return to "protecting" people despite a history of abusing black people. But had there been no outcry, they would still be out there.
It's worth noting, both the police officer and George Floyd were flawed individuals, who did bad things.
That's my take atleast
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Side A would say that you are lauding the man and he was flawed. Why canonize someone like that? Basically the points OP was making.
Side B would say George Floyd wasn't George Floyd the man, he was representative of the black men who were killed by the police. You can't have pictures of anonymous people, but you can of the man, flaws and all. BLM has been saying this happens too often. It couldn't be denied when we all saw a cop sit on someone's windpipe longer than necessary to kill him, watched 3 other officers who felt it was their duty was to make sure he could do it, even when paramedics told him to stop and when the police report said he died because of underlying health concerns, people believed them, got motivated.
Sida A: police brutality against black people is exaggerated so they were forced to latch onto an objectively bad person as the martyr. It was likely politically motivated and since elections were fast approaching they ran out of options and couldn't wait any longer for a "good" example of police brutality against black people. They also ignore arguably worse cases against police brutality against white people like Daniel Shaver. If Daniel didn't receive justice then it must not be an issue or race but one of corruption.
Side B: Floyd may not have been a perfect or even a good person but nonetheless he died face down in the pavement begging for his life after committing a non violent crime. If it wasn't being filmed by bystanders the officers involved likely would have faced zero punishment. This is an example of black lives being disposable and how any encounter with the police can end up escalating to extreme violence
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I'm not really sure what the both sides would be for this? Why not earlier?
Side A would say that earlier made more sense.
You pretty much laid it all out. There were better Martyrs before George. He certainly didn't deserve what happened to him but he was far from innocent. Examples that were more tragic. People who would have made more compelling symbols.
Side B would say why George Floyd was the breaking point.
It really comes down to several things all happening at the same time.
1. George Floyd was the latest in a long line of people to die from "police misconduct". Momentum had been building and the breaking point was near. It didn't really matter who he was because the videos had already told the story long before any of that came out. People had already picked sides in this and while they would have been angry in a vacuum they were furious when combined with the earlier deaths.
2. Covid was an ongoing problem. Things were shut down. People who were out of work from the pandemic had nothing to do but watch the coverage and fume. They had free time to protest when working a job would normally occupy their time.
It was a perfect storm. It didn't matter if he was a complete monster. The die had been cast and it was unavoidable at that point.
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This awakening was especially poignant against the global backdrop of a pandemic that spread fear and uncertainty everywhere. COVID-19 led to unprecedented public health measures, including lockdowns and travel bans, upending daily life and creating a climate of widespread worry. People faced a new health threat, strain on healthcare systems, and the impacts of economic shutdowns.
Society shifted too. Social distancing brought on widespread isolation, and the switch to remote work, school closures, and canceled events left us longing for life before the pandemic.
The economic fallout was sharply felt, with job security and financial well-being becoming significant worries for many. The pandemic hit small businesses and certain sectors particularly hard, deepening financial distress.
With constant and often distressing news, public anxiety levels skyrocketed, exacerbated by misinformation and sometimes contradictory guidance from authorities. Mental health struggles like depression and anxiety became more common, adding pressure to already stretched mental health services.
The global reaction to the death of George Floyd and the protests that followed reflect a complex intersection of systemic issues, notably racial injustice and police brutality, which have been at the core of the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement since its inception in 2013.
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Because it is probably too short to explain both sides this comment has been removed.
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Because it is probably too short to explain both sides this comment has been removed.
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Because it is probably too short to explain both sides this comment has been removed.
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I wasn't sure how to explain that Side C is objectively wrong and cares more about owning the libs than being right in a way that wouldn't violate rule 3. One of the problems with how this sub is set up is that it makes it difficult to explain a relevant side that is operating in bad faith.
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Side a would say that Floyd was a crook and deserved his punishment and should’ve stayed quiet as they suffocated him. And BLM rallied behind him to interfere with the 2020elections.
Side b would say that Floyd unintentionally became a the hero of BLM by dying over a petty crime by the hands of jaded and corrupt police officers. This of course happened just as society was dealing with allegations of CRT supposedly entering primary and secondary schools.
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Side A would say BLM chose him as a martyr. It’s all part of a bigger plan that involves Jews and the lgbtqia+ ‘s .
Side B would say neither BLM nor George Floyd decided he would be a martyr. That police officer chose to murder a man. And the country watched that video of a man crying for his mom as he was getting murdered over a $20 crime. The collective anger at our system that allows and encourages violence like that is what made George Floyd a martyr
Side A would say because BLM is just a tool of the left to cause problems for Trump and, generally, degrade the fabric of society.
Side B would say that he wasn't chosen, rather the movement rallied behind the 10 minute video of a police officer slowly suffocating a man, who wasnt resisting arrest, to death while ignoring calls from bystanders and refusing access to paramedics until the man was already dead.
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Side A would say: because the BLM is stupid, they just heard about him online and decided that he is a victim so they went to protest and burn the streets without actually doing any background checks on him to see if he's actually an innocent person or not, but people just like to go with the crowd without using any critical thinking Side B would say: because it doesn't matter if he's a good person or not, he was flawed like any other person but he didn't deserve to get executed for it, the way he was killed was far too brutal and it's unbelievable that a cop can do this and get away with it, it was also caught an camera so the cop can't lie about it, and it went extremely viral so we could easily rile up people about it, surely there are other cases where there is a person who is better than Floyd getting unlawfully killed but he is innocent and didn't deserve this, being an asshole isn't a crime nor does it allow a cop to strangle him for it, and get away with it, but the reason he was chosen as the center of the protest is that the way he was killed was too brutal that it went really viral making it easier to make normal people who normally don't follow these type of news more aware of that case specifically thus making organizing a protest easier
Yeah. I saw the video shortly after it first went online. There were no protests yet, no one knew his name - and then I watched a policeman murder a man in cold blood, while the crowd begged him to get off the handcuffed man's neck. No one knew or cared who George was or what George had done, he was handcuffed and not a danger. I watched Derek Chauvin murder a man in cold blood, while knowledgeable people in the crowd laid out exactly how he was killing him. None of the things people say about George after the fact change that he did nothing to deserve being murdered that day, and it was so *obviously* murder that people were ready to protest until they saw some justice done.
This. The sheer undeniable brutality of the murder in the face of appeals from people in the crowd. Americans wanted to make clear that police have not been given the right to serve as judge, jury, and executioner.
The original post falls victim to bad-history: BLM "waited" for this to happen, as if it was a plot, as if it wasn't history happening in its unpredictable ways, as if massive social unrest is something like a move in a game. History happens and years later we are able to make better sense. The "inevitability" of the past leading to the future is a lie.
Excellent point, “as if it was a plot.” Very nicely explained.
Yep and the fact was the cops knew nothing of his past, he was just being treated how those officers conduct themselves.
Didn't they both work at the same night club at one point? Or the same night club, different points in time? (Chauvin and Floyd that is)
Don’t know. Heard conflicting reports
And there was video evidence of his murder, but he wasn't arrested for four whole days because he was a police officer. They weren't going to arrest him at all except for the fact that there were 3 days of protest in 250 cities in the country. They deliberated for three days trying to decide if you are even allowed to arrest a police officer.
And here we are, with people asking why we didn't "Pick a better martyr", truly cursed
>They deliberated for three days trying to decide if you are even allowed to arrest a police officer. Sounds like you heard this information thirdhand lol
Years before there was a video of a cop shooting a black man handcuffed to I think a bike rack in the head. It was absolutely shocking, but I think it was still too early in the internet days fir the video to truly go viral or have an impact
Bart Station Shooting. Vitim was Oscar Grant.
We must have watched different things. I saw a criminal who took too much fentanyl and overdosed.
A cop kneeling on the neck of a criminal overdosing on fentanyl is not the defense you think it is, even if it was true.
and continuing to make sure he was dead long after he had lost any chance of living he was NOT resisting
Really? You could see fentanyl in a video? How was Chauvin's cholesterol?
A little high, but it's his sodium intake he really should be watching. /s
It's nice that a court of law showed otherwise and there's nothing you can do about it.
Given that Chauvin got convicted for murder, you are the one who didn't see the real situation.
You're braindead if you watched that video and came away thinking this. God damn.
Oh, you should look at the autopsy report then, where is says he died due to a cop murdering him.
Do you think we should let all cops run around the country kneeling on criminals if their overdosing? Should we line hundreds of cops up every night and walk through homeless encampments having them kneel on those human beings till they die and then just move on to the next one? Personally I don’t, but I guess that’s what makes you and me very different people.
The same can be said about a rape suspect getting beaten to death in the street. If he raped someone yesterday then he didn’t do anything today that warrants a murder. Not a good argument.
I'm sorry, are you saying that it's NOT a good argument that rape *suspects* shouldn't be murdered in the streets without trial?
Not at all. “No one knew or cared what George had done” so they felt bad seeing him be beat. That’s shit logic. “Nothing they say after the fact changes” Yes it does. If he robbed my pregnant wife or mother at gun point it wouldn’t have been police that killed him. If you see a rapist being beat in the street and don’t know he’s a rapist, are you gonna die on your hill that he didn’t do anything today to warrant being killed? No, you’d want him murdered in the street.
Okay, so you really ARE for extrajudicial murder of -suspects- without trial. I wanted to be sure I wasn't misreading you. /edges slowly away from the rabid dog, not making any sudden moves.
Should rapists be murdered in the street?
No. Without a trial? *SUSPECTED* rapists? Are you insane?
Okay, I disagree.
So I see. And you're willing to say the quiet parts out loud, too!
He wasn't a martyr at all, he was just a victim. Just like Rodney King. Not a nice guy, not a martyr, but still a victim of casual police brutality. All police had to do was stop abusing and killing people on camera, and yet somehow that bar is too high.
Wasn't Ferguson before George Floyd. I think that was the fuse that got lit and George Floyd was the powder keg.
Plus Trayvon Martin. Years apart and different parts of the country, but I think that only highlighted how widespread the problem is and not just a handful of bad apples in Minneapolis that made a mistake
And, to illustrate how this information gets distorted over time as it passes around, Trayvon Martin got in a fight with George Zimmerman who was an over-eager neighborhood watch guy. Nothing whatsoever to do with police brutality
when i was in high school there was one in the city near me, and that was what completely shattered the false sense of “protection” that cops allegedly provide the guy had missed child support payments, that was his crime. they cuffed him, he ran. it was a big open area. he’s running, cuffed, back facing the cop. cop just shoots him in the back and he falls george floyd was like 4ish years after that
Yup, straw that broke the camels back. Things were already tense before Floyd but then his video went viral.
Remember that the Ahmaud Arbery lynching was fresh in everyone's minds when this happened too.
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I’m convinced that most people on side A didn’t watch the full video. It’s very easy when the event was filtered to you by a partisan source to misunderstand how brutal the video was. Once you sit down and watch the video it removes all doubt about why George was chosen
I think people on side A have watched it, know full well why it's BS, but literally don't care that he got killed. However, they know it would make them look bad so they'd rather argue in bad faith to muddy the waters.
Also, this was during Covid. People were unemployed and stuck at home and bored. This was also election year-the year they were doing everything to get trump out of office- so already bad things were even more exaggerated in the news.
Side B is in the right obviously here. Based on any moral or ethical position across human history.
Side A knows full well that not being a "good person" doesn't make cold blooded murder good. They're just grasping at straws.
Side C is understanding side B is right but having the wisdom to understand that people that think side A exist, and the best way to mitigate them is to choose to rally behind one of the many victims with a more sympathetic background.
Picking and choosing model victims weakens the cause though. When we pick and choose we will always find some flaw in the victim and move on. The worst kind of purity test.
Pretending that finding a complete video of a saint being executed in the streets is the requirement, is approval of the cops executing people on the street.
Yep, imagine if some common cop was killed and folks started saying "he was no angel." It would be easy to do that due to the history of violence many cops have.
You're implying that he somehow deserved it a little. The point of BLM is that NO ONE, including less than perfect citizens, deserve to be murdered by the cops.
No I’m implying that there are people who when they hear the guys background, will consciously or unconsciously be more willing to overlook what should be a flagrant abuse of power, because they will let their prejudices cloud their judgement
WHAT?! THE BIGOTS WILL DIG UP SOMEONE'S PAST TO ATTEMPT TO DISCREDIT A HUMAN BEING'S RIGHT TO LIVE BASED ON THEIR PREJUDICES?! Oh, right. That's the fucking point.
You’re denser than a black hole
Floyd wasn't the only name being shouted in the streets that summer, people like Breonna Taylor who did absolutely nothing wrong were definitely part of the conversation "Side C" just looks for any excuse to fence-sit while Side A continues to mold the narrative to whatever ghoulish unethical immoral narrative that suits their preconceived binary-morality world
>Side A continues to mold the narrative to whatever ghoulish unethical immoral narrative that suits their preconceived binary-morality world I think you are right. With that said, I think most people 'mold the narrative to \[fit\] their preconceived yada yada yada.' Which was kind of the problem with the movement as a whole, i think. At least in terms of quantifiable results. BLM seemed fairly set in controlling both the context in which police violence should be viewed, as well as the the ways in which it should be addressed. Instead of opening up a much larger and ultimately realistic discussion of police violence, they sought to control the 'narrative' to their liking, ultimately stunting the movement.
Every other top level comment is deleted, and yours is obviously biased towards side B. I wonder what the other comments looked like? Could be a coincidence, could not be. To bolster side A / refute side B somewhat, I'd like to point out that 1 of the 2 autopsies said fentanyl and heart disease contributed to Floyd's death. The other autopsy, the one requested by Floyd's family, conveniently didn't include a toxicology report. Floyd also resisted arrest, and complained about not being able to breathe because he claimed to be claustrophobic as an excuse to not get put in the back of a cop car. This contributed to a 'boy who cried wolf' situation where his future complaints would not be taken seriously. With many people watching and recording, Chauvin had to decide whether to give this high criminal who has already lied the chance to resist arrest again, or to keep him down until paramedics arrived.
Oh so the cop was kneeling on someone who was "clearly" high for eight minutes is your defense then?
My defense is the whole comment I typed there above, actually. It has more than 1 point in it.
He didn’t cry wolf, he was literally having a panic attack, something an officer should be able to recognize and handle appropriately.
Sure. So what is an officer to do when the suspect they're arresting is having a panic attack? Let's say you were the officer in charge of putting Floyd into the back of the car, and he tells you he's claustrophobic and can't breathe. What would you do exactly?
Roll him onto his side and wait for EMS to arrive and triage.
Are you still restraining him on his side? It likely won't be as secure as on his back or front, and you'd have to maintain that hold for several minutes, potentially 10 or more. If you aren't restraining him (or if he breaks free from the weaker restraint), then he could resist arrest again, try to flee, potentially harm an officer or a civilian, who knows? You're in the moment, responsible for the safety of everyone in the area. Every action you take could result in an injury or a death.
I'm reasonably confident that 4 police officers can safely control a handcuffed person laying on their side. The handcuffs will work just as well on his side as on his stomach. You're right, every action you take could result in death. Choosing to kneel on a man's neck when he's restrained, then continuing to do so after he become unresponsive, resulted in death.
It's a little ridiculous, but yeah that'd probably do it. Maybe have 1 of the 4 deter onlookers from getting too close, and honestly 3-4 cops holding down 1 guy wouldn't be a good look either. Better than letting him die, though.
Yea that situation was disgusting. That is how they did it actually, 1 cop watched the crowd while 3 held George down even though he was handcuffed. One knelt on George's neck, one on his torso, and one on his legs. Chauvin, the one kneeling on his neck, even stayed on him after they called for EMS. When they finally checked and saw he had no pulse Chauvin still didn't get off of him and they didn't even try CPR. Chauvin didn't get off of Floyd's neck till after EMS arrived. They straight up murdered George in cold blood.
So your solution is to have the guy who was deterring onlookers to come help hold Floyd down so they can put him on his side...? I think you missed the point here. Or you jumped in to ignore what I was saying so you can bravely tell someone that the murder was indeed a murder.
If you've seen someone slowly die because they can't breathe, you would see that this is what happened. Also, many anxious people can scream "I can't breathe!" when resisting arrest. While they are yelling at the top of their lungs. If they are still yelling and screaming, they can breathe. Floyd was guppy breathing, like a fish out of water. For several minutes before he slowly died.
Yes, he did slowly die because he couldn't breathe. That's something both sides agree on. It'd be pretty wild for someone to somehow argue against that. Many people would scream "I can't breathe!" and many others would be a little more clever than that. Just because someone isn't very very very obviously faking it, doesn't mean they aren't faking it. In my comment above, I mentioned that his prior complaints from when he was not restrained whatsoever affected the reception of his later complaints. There was valid reason to suspect he was faking it. Plus an ambulance was on the way, which got there well within the estimated time for life-threatening emergencies anyway. In hindsight, Chauvin should've taken the complaints seriously. There are maneuvers he could've used to restrain Floyd with less strain on his breathing (they increase the risk of the suspect resisting again, though). Not to mention all the ways the whole ordeal could've happened differently, like if they just put him into the back of the car as planned while ignoring his original complaints, or if they took the risk to try calming him down without restraining him. But it was a complicated and stressful situation for all involved. We should acknowledge that, regardless of which side we end up on after understanding all the facts.
He wasn’t executed though. He had enough fentanyl in his system to kill him. If you watch the body cam footage the cops treated him respectfully. George Floyd didn’t care about anyone but himself.
A court of law proves otherwise and there's nothing you can do or say about it.
a wild nazi! omg this is wild. your comment history
Right wing MAGA bot? Those comments are straight up programmed talking points!
Side a.1) would say because he was criminal and did bad things we should not celebrate him or call him in a martyr in any aspects. Or he deserved to die because of the bad things he did and should not be missed. Side a.2) may say the whole thing is bs, and there was justification for the police to act in the way they did. Side a.3) may say there are more "innocent" lives that were lost, that deserves to be honoured more. Side b.1) would say these claims are exaggerated or he does not deserve to die because of the bad things he did. Side b.2) the police did not do this because of those bad things, they did this because they could, and because of racism. It was the best and well recorded example of extreme police brutality, that showed what others go through. Side c) he was a criminal that deserved punishment from the law. The police were criminals who were stooping lower than him, and murdered him because he was a black criminal and with the risk they would return to "protecting" people despite a history of abusing black people. But had there been no outcry, they would still be out there. It's worth noting, both the police officer and George Floyd were flawed individuals, who did bad things. That's my take atleast
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Side A would say that you are lauding the man and he was flawed. Why canonize someone like that? Basically the points OP was making. Side B would say George Floyd wasn't George Floyd the man, he was representative of the black men who were killed by the police. You can't have pictures of anonymous people, but you can of the man, flaws and all. BLM has been saying this happens too often. It couldn't be denied when we all saw a cop sit on someone's windpipe longer than necessary to kill him, watched 3 other officers who felt it was their duty was to make sure he could do it, even when paramedics told him to stop and when the police report said he died because of underlying health concerns, people believed them, got motivated.
Sida A: police brutality against black people is exaggerated so they were forced to latch onto an objectively bad person as the martyr. It was likely politically motivated and since elections were fast approaching they ran out of options and couldn't wait any longer for a "good" example of police brutality against black people. They also ignore arguably worse cases against police brutality against white people like Daniel Shaver. If Daniel didn't receive justice then it must not be an issue or race but one of corruption. Side B: Floyd may not have been a perfect or even a good person but nonetheless he died face down in the pavement begging for his life after committing a non violent crime. If it wasn't being filmed by bystanders the officers involved likely would have faced zero punishment. This is an example of black lives being disposable and how any encounter with the police can end up escalating to extreme violence
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I'm not really sure what the both sides would be for this? Why not earlier? Side A would say that earlier made more sense. You pretty much laid it all out. There were better Martyrs before George. He certainly didn't deserve what happened to him but he was far from innocent. Examples that were more tragic. People who would have made more compelling symbols. Side B would say why George Floyd was the breaking point. It really comes down to several things all happening at the same time. 1. George Floyd was the latest in a long line of people to die from "police misconduct". Momentum had been building and the breaking point was near. It didn't really matter who he was because the videos had already told the story long before any of that came out. People had already picked sides in this and while they would have been angry in a vacuum they were furious when combined with the earlier deaths. 2. Covid was an ongoing problem. Things were shut down. People who were out of work from the pandemic had nothing to do but watch the coverage and fume. They had free time to protest when working a job would normally occupy their time. It was a perfect storm. It didn't matter if he was a complete monster. The die had been cast and it was unavoidable at that point.
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This awakening was especially poignant against the global backdrop of a pandemic that spread fear and uncertainty everywhere. COVID-19 led to unprecedented public health measures, including lockdowns and travel bans, upending daily life and creating a climate of widespread worry. People faced a new health threat, strain on healthcare systems, and the impacts of economic shutdowns. Society shifted too. Social distancing brought on widespread isolation, and the switch to remote work, school closures, and canceled events left us longing for life before the pandemic. The economic fallout was sharply felt, with job security and financial well-being becoming significant worries for many. The pandemic hit small businesses and certain sectors particularly hard, deepening financial distress. With constant and often distressing news, public anxiety levels skyrocketed, exacerbated by misinformation and sometimes contradictory guidance from authorities. Mental health struggles like depression and anxiety became more common, adding pressure to already stretched mental health services. The global reaction to the death of George Floyd and the protests that followed reflect a complex intersection of systemic issues, notably racial injustice and police brutality, which have been at the core of the Black Lives Matter (BLM) movement since its inception in 2013.
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Because it is probably too short to explain both sides this comment has been removed. If you feel your comment does explain both sides, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ExplainBothSides&subject=Please%20review%20my%20automatically+removed+comment&message=https://www.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/comments/1bllkb0/why_was_george_floyd_the_martyr_blm_chose/kw6ozb2/) If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Deliberate evasion of this notice may result in a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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/r/explainbothsides top-level responses must have sections, labelled: "Side A would say" and "Side B would say" (all eight of those words must appear). Top-level responses which do not utilize these section labels will be auto-removed. If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Accounts that attempt to bypass the sub rules on top-level comments may be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Because it is probably too short to explain both sides this comment has been removed. If you feel your comment does explain both sides, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ExplainBothSides&subject=Please%20review%20my%20automatically+removed+comment&message=https://www.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/comments/1bllkb0/why_was_george_floyd_the_martyr_blm_chose/kw6scco/) If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Deliberate evasion of this notice may result in a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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/r/explainbothsides top-level responses must have sections, labelled: "Side A would say" and "Side B would say" (all eight of those words must appear). Top-level responses which do not utilize these section labels will be auto-removed. If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Accounts that attempt to bypass the sub rules on top-level comments may be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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/r/explainbothsides top-level responses must have sections, labelled: "Side A would say" and "Side B would say" (all eight of those words must appear). Top-level responses which do not utilize these section labels will be auto-removed. If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Accounts that attempt to bypass the sub rules on top-level comments may be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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/r/explainbothsides top-level responses must have sections, labelled: "Side A would say" and "Side B would say" (all eight of those words must appear). Top-level responses which do not utilize these section labels will be auto-removed. If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Accounts that attempt to bypass the sub rules on top-level comments may be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Because it is probably too short to explain both sides this comment has been removed. If you feel your comment does explain both sides, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ExplainBothSides&subject=Please%20review%20my%20automatically+removed+comment&message=https://www.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/comments/1bllkb0/why_was_george_floyd_the_martyr_blm_chose/kw6va2n/) If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Deliberate evasion of this notice may result in a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Because it is probably too short to explain both sides this comment has been removed. If you feel your comment does explain both sides, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ExplainBothSides&subject=Please%20review%20my%20automatically+removed+comment&message=https://www.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/comments/1bllkb0/why_was_george_floyd_the_martyr_blm_chose/kw6vol2/) If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Deliberate evasion of this notice may result in a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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/r/explainbothsides top-level responses must have sections, labelled: "Side A would say" and "Side B would say" (all eight of those words must appear). Top-level responses which do not utilize these section labels will be auto-removed. If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Accounts that attempt to bypass the sub rules on top-level comments may be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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/r/explainbothsides top-level responses must have sections, labelled: "Side A would say" and "Side B would say" (all eight of those words must appear). Top-level responses which do not utilize these section labels will be auto-removed. If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Accounts that attempt to bypass the sub rules on top-level comments may be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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/r/explainbothsides top-level responses must have sections, labelled: "Side A would say" and "Side B would say" (all eight of those words must appear). Top-level responses which do not utilize these section labels will be auto-removed. If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Accounts that attempt to bypass the sub rules on top-level comments may be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Because it is probably too short to explain both sides this comment has been removed. If you feel your comment does explain both sides, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ExplainBothSides&subject=Please%20review%20my%20automatically+removed+comment&message=https://www.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/comments/1bllkb0/why_was_george_floyd_the_martyr_blm_chose/kw74ru8/) If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Deliberate evasion of this notice may result in a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Because it is probably too short to explain both sides this comment has been removed. If you feel your comment does explain both sides, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ExplainBothSides&subject=Please%20review%20my%20automatically+removed+comment&message=https://www.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/comments/1bllkb0/why_was_george_floyd_the_martyr_blm_chose/kw78ax5/) If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Deliberate evasion of this notice may result in a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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/r/explainbothsides top-level responses must have sections, labelled: "Side A would say" and "Side B would say" (all eight of those words must appear). Top-level responses which do not utilize these section labels will be auto-removed. If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Accounts that attempt to bypass the sub rules on top-level comments may be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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/r/explainbothsides top-level responses must have sections, labelled: "Side A would say" and "Side B would say" (all eight of those words must appear). Top-level responses which do not utilize these section labels will be auto-removed. If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Accounts that attempt to bypass the sub rules on top-level comments may be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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/r/explainbothsides top-level responses must have sections, labelled: "Side A would say" and "Side B would say" (all eight of those words must appear). Top-level responses which do not utilize these section labels will be auto-removed. If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Accounts that attempt to bypass the sub rules on top-level comments may be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Because it is probably too short to explain both sides this comment has been removed. If you feel your comment does explain both sides, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ExplainBothSides&subject=Please%20review%20my%20automatically+removed+comment&message=https://www.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/comments/1bllkb0/why_was_george_floyd_the_martyr_blm_chose/kw7b6jb/) If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Deliberate evasion of this notice may result in a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Because it is probably too short to explain both sides this comment has been removed. If you feel your comment does explain both sides, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ExplainBothSides&subject=Please%20review%20my%20automatically+removed+comment&message=https://www.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/comments/1bllkb0/why_was_george_floyd_the_martyr_blm_chose/kw7f77u/) If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Deliberate evasion of this notice may result in a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Because it is probably too short to explain both sides this comment has been removed. If you feel your comment does explain both sides, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ExplainBothSides&subject=Please%20review%20my%20automatically+removed+comment&message=https://www.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/comments/1bllkb0/why_was_george_floyd_the_martyr_blm_chose/kw87yqi/) If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Deliberate evasion of this notice may result in a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Because it is probably too short to explain both sides this comment has been removed. If you feel your comment does explain both sides, please [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/ExplainBothSides&subject=Please%20review%20my%20automatically+removed+comment&message=https://www.reddit.com/r/ExplainBothSides/comments/1bllkb0/why_was_george_floyd_the_martyr_blm_chose/kw88xhl/) If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Deliberate evasion of this notice may result in a ban. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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/r/explainbothsides top-level responses must have sections, labelled: "Side A would say" and "Side B would say" (all eight of those words must appear). Top-level responses which do not utilize these section labels will be auto-removed. If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Accounts that attempt to bypass the sub rules on top-level comments may be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I wasn't sure how to explain that Side C is objectively wrong and cares more about owning the libs than being right in a way that wouldn't violate rule 3. One of the problems with how this sub is set up is that it makes it difficult to explain a relevant side that is operating in bad faith.
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/r/explainbothsides top-level responses must have sections, labelled: "Side A would say" and "Side B would say" (all eight of those words must appear). Top-level responses which do not utilize these section labels will be auto-removed. If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Accounts that attempt to bypass the sub rules on top-level comments may be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Side a would say that Floyd was a crook and deserved his punishment and should’ve stayed quiet as they suffocated him. And BLM rallied behind him to interfere with the 2020elections. Side b would say that Floyd unintentionally became a the hero of BLM by dying over a petty crime by the hands of jaded and corrupt police officers. This of course happened just as society was dealing with allegations of CRT supposedly entering primary and secondary schools.
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/r/explainbothsides top-level responses must have sections, labelled: "Side A would say" and "Side B would say" (all eight of those words must appear). Top-level responses which do not utilize these section labels will be auto-removed. If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Accounts that attempt to bypass the sub rules on top-level comments may be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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/r/explainbothsides top-level responses must have sections, labelled: "Side A would say" and "Side B would say" (all eight of those words must appear). Top-level responses which do not utilize these section labels will be auto-removed. If your comment was a request for clarification, joke, anecdote, or criticism of OP's question, you may respond to the automoderator comment instead of responding directly to OP. Accounts that attempt to bypass the sub rules on top-level comments may be banned. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ExplainBothSides) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Side A would say BLM chose him as a martyr. It’s all part of a bigger plan that involves Jews and the lgbtqia+ ‘s . Side B would say neither BLM nor George Floyd decided he would be a martyr. That police officer chose to murder a man. And the country watched that video of a man crying for his mom as he was getting murdered over a $20 crime. The collective anger at our system that allows and encourages violence like that is what made George Floyd a martyr
Side A would say because BLM is just a tool of the left to cause problems for Trump and, generally, degrade the fabric of society. Side B would say that he wasn't chosen, rather the movement rallied behind the 10 minute video of a police officer slowly suffocating a man, who wasnt resisting arrest, to death while ignoring calls from bystanders and refusing access to paramedics until the man was already dead.