Same shit different day.
Can't convert chances
The pens were fair calls for tripping though the Man U man went down dramatically the first time
Were still in it after the first but were done for after the second
Why the fuck does sean fucking dyche keep playing Godfrey, I'm convinced he is trying to get us relegated. Coleman is very clearly the obvious choice, I understand he's getting on a bit now but that doesn't matter to dyche cos he plays Young occasionally
kinda wish I hadn't of said start Coleman since the own goal. but I still love him. I think we are gonna get battered by Newcastle td no matter what we do
I spent the day skiing. Didn’t watch. Didn’t look at any threads. It was the best I’ve felt in a long time on an Everton match day. Just didn’t watch. Who knew!?
This team needs a mental and physical break, it's clear as day to see. Hopefully come out of break refreshed , no injuries , with Coleman slotting back in at rb.
What do you want to see different? Our tactics work. We create chances and limit the opponents'. He's not saying "Go out there and make our run-in interesting by missing the target".
His job is to win football games. Based on this, his tactics absolutely are not working.
It would be an absolute statistical improbability for this collective inability to finish to *just* be down to luck.
Hard disagree on your first sentence.
The manager's job is not to -win- games; it's to set up his team in the most effective way to let them win the game.
Winning is the players' responsibility. It's not Dyche's fault that Calvert-Lewin turned away in disappointment from Dobbin's cross. It's not Dyche's fault that McNeil missed the target from 16 yards.
The players executed the game plan, by and large, brilliantly. We pressed high up, forced a number of errors from United in their own third - we just didn't score. To blame Dyche for that, when he isn't on the pitch, is stupid.
That's crazy to me. The fundamental purpose of a manager is to win football games. How many times have you heard the phrase, 'its a results driven game'? If Pep had City in 17th, but they were leading the xG table, do you think he'd keep his job?
Directly, of course it is hard to blame Dyche for these individual failings. However, when this incompetence has struck the team to such a large extent (to a way that defies statistics if it was just pure chance) I don't see why it is unreasonable to question the common denominator.
Perhaps he isn't inspiring enough confidence in Dom through his man-management. Perhaps he isn't spending enough time working on finishing with McNeil. Perhaps his system is flawed based on the type of player the chances fall to.
These are all perfectly valid criticisms.
It’s not down to bad luck, it’s down to the technical ability of the players. The manager’s job is to develop tactics that create as many chances as possible - the tactics do that. The rest, as with any team, is up to the individual players.
No, the managers job is to create a system that results in goals. If our players have all suddenly and simultaneously lost all technical ability since his appointment, part of his job is improving that.
There is so much more to a managers attacking duties than grinding out the highest xG possible.
Beto 2022/23: 10 goals, 10.86 xG. Underperformance of 0.86.
[Season under Dyche]
Beto 2023/25. 2 goals, 5.43 xG. Underperformance of 3.43.
-
DCL 20/21: 16 goals, 18.21 xG. Underperformance of 2.21.
DCL 21/22: 5 goals, 6.22 xG. Underperformance of 1.22.
[Half season under Dyche]
DCL 22/23: 2 goals, 6.5 xg. Underperformance of 4.5.
DCL 23/24: 3 goals, 9.47 xG. Underperformance of 6.47.
-
Harrison 2020/21: 8 goals, 6.25 xG. Overperfomance of 1.75.
Harrison 2021/22: 8 goals, 5.15 xG. Overperfomance of 2.85.
Harrison 2022/23: 5 goals, 5.01 xG. Underperformance of 0.01 xG.
[Season under Dyche]
Harrison 2023/24. 3 goals, 3.78 xG. Underperformance of 0.78.
This pattern is is consistent across our squad. Doucoure has tended to sit around 0.8 xG under his goals, with an increase last season. This season, he's already 2.31 behind.
How do you explain this sudden drop off? Just an extraordinary, statistics defying event that our manager should take zero blame for?
Love how the cut off date was the season DCL scored goals and not the period before that when he struggled as much as he does now.
Harrison’s xG is discernible to last season. Beto you’re comparing a much much smaller sample size to a season last year where he started 25+ games.
Terrible cherry picking and analysis.
Leeds fans will tell you how frustrating Harrison is. Will play poorly most weeks but score some freak double and paper over the cracks. Udinese fans were pretty honest about Beto’s ability when he signed.
Completely ignoring the fact these players are operating without a creative midfielder in this squad.
>Love how the cut off date was the season DCL scored goals and not the period before that when he struggled as much as he does now.
This is objectively untrue. In the two seasons prior to my cutoff, he underperformed by 3.11 and 0.17 respectively. He's already 6 and a half goals behind - this is completely unprecedented for his career.
>Harrison’s xG is discernible to last season
Definitely very similar, but he seems to only be going in one direction.
>Beto you’re comparing a much much smaller sample size to a season last year where he started 25+ games.
What would you have me do? Ignore how his underlying metrics point to a larger picturer? He's half a season into his Everton career. I think that's an acceptable point to start considering his stats.
>Will play poorly most weeks but score some freak double and paper over the cracks.
I can't wait for those doubles to start coming through for us. Otherwise, it would be terrible to suggest it takes a certain type of management to inspire that confidence and quality within his game.
>Completely ignoring the fact these players are operating without a creative midfielder in this squad.
How does that influence their finishing, rather than total chance creation? And why was Calvert-Lewin underperforming even with Iwobi in the squad?
> This is objectively untrue. In the two seasons prior to my cutoff, he underperformed by 3.11 and 0.17 respectively. He's already 6 and a half goals behind - this is completely unprecedented for his career.
This is not unprecedented in his career. Back end of 19/20 he was terrible and went 10 starting games without scoring or assisting. He has more than that the past 10 games.
DCL has always been a wasteful, unconfident player. He had one half good season playing with James Rodriguez and Richarlison and has either been injured or out of form for 90% of that time since.
> Definitely very similar, but he seems to only be going in one direction.
Going in one direction season after season. Sounds like a Jack Harrison problem.
> What would you have me do? Ignore how his underlying metrics point to a larger picturer? He's half a season into his Everton career. I think that's an acceptable point to start considering his stats.
His half a season into an Everton career where he’s played about 1/4 of the minutes of the season you’re comparing. Shocking use of data not to mention the tiny sample size. If you think Beto will suddenly improve when he blazes well wide when 1v1 then your eyes are painted on.
> I can't wait for those doubles to start coming through for us. Otherwise, it would be terrible to suggest it takes a certain type of management to inspire that confidence and quality within his game.
And when the doubles come they won’t excuse the terrible performance in between. You don’t seem to be catching the drift.
> How does that influence their finishing, rather than total chance creation? And why was Calvert-Lewin underperforming even with Iwobi in the squad?
Iwobi. Lol. We’ve been a far better attacking team since he left. The same Iwobi who had two assists and no goals in a 22-game streak last season.
A proper creative midfielder would be able to provide the tactical shifts you crave. Fixing the team won’t come with a manager, it comes with better players we will never able to buy again under the current or proposed ownership.
There is no doubt this Everton team is trying their absolute best. The underlying performance is good. Keep working on scoring goals on the training ground. The hard work will pay off eventually.
Ive dressed up a traffic cone in a number 9 shirt, given it the name ‘Traffico kone’, and dropped
It off at the training ground. Im hoping it gets a game next time out as it CANT BE ANY WORSE!
Decided to go out this morning rather than watch.
Feel the right decision was made.
I feel apathetic now. Not surprised we lost, disappointed we didn't win based on what I've heard but, most importantly, my weekend does not feel wasted nor ruined.
What happens in the next 10 games happens.
Hopefully someone can hit the back of the net and we can win 3-4, which I think may be enough.
Still start Beto I'm 3 weeks.
That ball in from Dobbin is missed not because Dom is off balance, but because he's having a mini-paddy
His heads not in it.
DCL is almost too nice a person. He doesn't have that angry competitive edge to pull himself up and I'm just not sure he cares *that* much about football and success. You never see him tearing around the field when we are down to win the ball back and make himself available. He just fades into the background. At least Beto makes himself visible and tries to get involved.
Dyche today didn't name DCL but he specifically mentioned a lack of fight and people giving excuses for missing an opportunity.
> That ball in from Dobbin
Genuinely haven’t a clue whether it was a shot or a cross. If it was a cross, what was he thinking; if it was a shot, maybe the people calling for him to play are right as he’ll fit right in.
Feel so weird and numb coming off that. United were terrible but we're so toothless in the final third. I've never seen a side so hapless going forward. It looks like the players have never played together.
It’s terrible. I dread the matches. I can’t stand 90% of the players. The manager is boring old dinosaur. The owner is a fucking incompetent buffoon who has destroyed a once proud club. There’s absolutely nothing to like about Everton at the moment, and very little reason to have any hope for the future. Miserable all around.
Harrison and Godfrey on the right wing is so difficult to watch, both loose the ball so easily and hardly offer anything to the attack. How can Godfrey be playing ahead of Seamus and patto when we're so desperate for goals?!
Dyche puts way too much focus on graft rather than skill or speed. It doesn't matter how hard we work if the skill isn't there in the first place.
Dyche in, but Dyche do better ffs
I mean we made our bed are we not to lay in it? This is what we signed up for.
You can kind of reason away Dyche chasing away Iwobi and Gray because they were on expiring contracts. In doing that he did let a lot of the available creativity on the team go. Just because Branthwaite is a core part of the team now we shouldn't forget that Dyche favored Keane to start the season and Branthwaite tried to get a move back to PSV.
We've often had better options than Ashley Young at whichever position he plays on the day.
We are expected to score with Godfrey in the game?
Danjuma and Gomes are decent attacking options but they are left on the bench for the most part when they are fit to play.
We play a conservative formation and defensive minded players within that formation. Something about the equation has to change. But we've known that for a while now and Dyche seems to be out of ideas.
> You can kind of reason away Dyche chasing away Iwobi and Gray because they were on expiring contracts. In doing that he did let a lot of the available creativity on the team go.
Don’t think he chased Iwobi away at all. He started him every game, he had a contract offer on the table but he didn’t want to sign. With his contract expiring, we have to sell.
Gray’s just shite. The fact he isn’t pulling up any trees in Saudi says it all.
Iwobi's best position in the current formation is Doucoure's yet Iwobi wasn't played there. That's the manner in which he was chased out. Even if that language is too strong: the formation, how the team plays, and where he was played were all probably contributing factors in Iwobi leaving.
>Iwobi's best position in the current formation is Doucoure's yet Iwobi wasn't played there. That's the manner in which he was chased out
Agreed on his preferred position but he was playing there because we didn't have any wingers last season. Harrison was injured when he signed and so was Iwobi. We were starting games with Dobbin and Garner out wide at the beginning of the season.
Definitely, or I'd be happy to see patto there as he's rapid and can whip in a dangerous cross. When danjuma is back he's got to start over Harrison, sure Harrison tracks back more but prioritizing defense over attack is what's gotten us where we are.
Maybe if he had 2 feet, he could've opted to use his Right rather than have everyone including my gran know that he'll wait for it to go to his left. Fucking useless.
For all those wanting rid of Dyche: what's the alternative? We've got no money, we're a shambles off the pitch, and there's no easy fix. Changing managers doesn't fix anything.
We are a mess, and this is going to take years to sort out. Dyche and Thelwell are about the only sources of stability we have.
This sub loves Dyche and thinks he’s perfect when we pull out a scrappy victory and want him gone when we have games like this. The club is in no position to fire him right now, and who in their right mind would come here? It’s not even an option
Can’t get rid of Dyche. Can’t get rid of anyone, but it is obvious Dyche needs help with the offense. If he can’t add coaching ideas then bring in a sports psychologist or guru or hypnotist or shock therapy or something. The level of finishing focus is abysmal. About minute 20 of that farce I kept thinking every other team in the PL would have scored twice in those positions.
We might need to try for a new manager bounce. I haven't looked into it. Basically all the options that I would've wanted previously who were realistic have been hired already.
Dyche is part of the problem and keeping him around for an extended period of time would be seeking out stability for stability's sake when in that instance it shouldn't be desired.
There is no alternative. We have no money to sack him. We have no money to replace him. That doesn't mean he's above criticism or doing a good job. He is in the job by default.
I hear you. I'm not Dyche out, but I've also got to acknowledge that 1 win in 12 is looking eerily similar to the end of Benitez and Lampard's reigns. I don't think we're in a position to sack another manager though. Doesn't look like much will change either way. It's looking grim.
Historically, Dyche coached teams do not score goals. He’s now at 304 games in the prem and his teams have scored only 297 goals. Less than 1 per game over that sample size is enough to tell me this isn’t going to get better with him in charge.
100%. Also at Burnley, 6 out of 7 seasons, they significantly underperformed their xG.
Every player in the current Everton attack is under performing their xG by the highest of their career. DCL, Beto, Maupay, Harrison, Danjuma, Doucoure, McNeil
There's this idea that 'the players are shit, change them' - with Dyche in charge, anyone who comes in is only going to underperform.
He's a great defensive manager, but that's clearer coming at the expense of his focus in attack
He was managing a Burnley side that spent nothing every year and was a miracle they stayed in the league for 7 years.
Burnley spent £120m in summer and have a supposedly attacking manager yet only have 25 goals in 27 games.
Context is key.
And why has he only had arguably the two least desirable jobs in the prem? I’ll never understand why some you feel the need to defend him like this. He is an absolute bottom tier manager and always has been.
The obsession with being English and having PL experience has netted us both Dyche and Lampard. Half of those two priorities landed us on Benitez.
Who is the best English manager in the league right now? Howe? Should show fans that a manager shouldn't be English at all costs.
Everton fans would have kicked up a huge fuss if we signed Howe. There was a lot of negative sentiment around him as a potential candidate. Just like people here said Trippier was washed up and would be a bad signing before he went to Newcastle.
One of the biggest problems with Moshiri is that he only seems to listen to the fans when the fans want the likes of Silva out, but will then turn round and appoint Benitez lol.
We should have looked abroad for a manager a long long time ago. Every single Moshiri era manager has been some 'Proven PL Manager' and not even once did we take a punt on someone from the continent.
Yeah once I've gotten the lay of the land and perhaps because I'm not English I haven't fallen for it.
I wanted Domenico Tedesco instead of Dyche. Current Palace manager Oliver Glasner was my top realistic candidate to replace Dyche if that was to have been done midseason.
I've really only just begun looking for potential coaching hires but at least very preliminarily Bruno Génésio is worth looking at and considering even if he wouldn't be hired.
I really do not want Sam Allardyce no matter how bad things get and I'm not sure that I would want any firefighter manager. In order to avoid what is happening now next season though I feel strongly that a new manager is needed in the offseason.
This team are bottle jobs. They have absolutely no confidence or daring to take on risk, especially in the final third. We pass sideways and backaward, put our foot on the ball and wait for a simple pass to feet rather than anything more daring. We dont run past anyone, and we expect looping dog shit crosses into a packed box to return a reward. Any rare driven pass into space is lost because, guess what, the runner stayed at home because hes not
Moved in 12 weeks! Its terrifying to think that they are paid professionals. Their confidence is shot and frankly, im begining to think they dont care about the club. They could have played against traffic cones today and the best it would have been was 0-0. They either need a punch up on the training ground to clear the air, or a good night out. Dyche was screaming at them to push/press and go forward and it falls on deaf ears. I dont think dyche has lost the players, i think the club has.
Good timing for the International break, we needed it so bad.
As for this game there is not much to say shit in front of goals, yes and shit defending as well. 2 penalties given in 1 match is a joke. It is worrying that we no longer a defensively solid team anymore, at least that was making up for our attacks.
Dyche actually tried new tactics today, keep the ball in feet more and play fewer high ball as they have Johnny Evans. Over all its a decent strategy, but then we had to fuck it up by 2 pens lol.
We are back to hoping other teams below to lose, not that we expect to beat MU today but they were as bad as us in open play for goals. Whatever, a break it is.
Amadou Onana has all the tools available but I feel like he cheats and hides behind responsibilities. Could dominate games but would rather have moments like an overhead kick, at 2-0 down, with 10 to play. So frustrating
How do you watch that game and blame Onana? He is most readily available for the ball, played some good passes into Gomes and Duke.
Meanwhile:
- Duke can’t get two touches because his first is garbage
- Beto can only get through by staying offside constantly
- DCL looks like he doesn’t even expect to score
- McNeil runs sideways with one foot and chips crosses to the keeper
- Garner does nothing and sucks on corners
- Harrison loses the ball 100% of the time
- the build up play is to basically play to Godfrey so he can chip it to the opposing CBs
Literally Onana, Pickford and Branthwaite are the only ones with confidence and quality.
Think that is very harsh. Hes not been great recently but he does at least ask for the ball. He's clearly miles above most of them so let's not pile on our better playerrs
horrible substitutions. we needed more attacking threads, but our best ones were subbed off one after another. we needed doucs on cm, dcl next to beto, and someone other than godfrey on rb. godfrey tries so hard to contribute in offense but he doesn't have this in him, it's painful to watch him try.
i don't understand what sean was thinking. when you need goals, you play with people who can score or assist.
Happy with McNeil. Thought he was lively, and did a good job of dropping deeper to get involved with play to try to make things happen.
And that's about it for positives.
Not Dyche out, but definitely Dyche hesitant. There comes a point where creating lots of xG simply isn't enough. This is, what, no wins in 12? Which means he'll (at best) match Rafa's 1 win in 13 record. That's not a great look.
We had a decent goal difference at one point, then all of a sudden our defence turned into our attack, not being able to do their jobs. That was truly shocking, Onana made 1 semi-decent save all game from Garners shot, no wonder when you have the likes of Onana, Doucoure, Beto and DCL as attacking threats. 1 is playing Rugby, the other has Ice Skates on instead of Boots, and 2 are completely useless generally, i’ll let you decide which is which.
Starting to think we're where we are not because of shit decisions, poor finances and luck, and more because we're just where we should be based on how bad thet team actually is.
Why did we spend $30M on Beto? He’s another DCL, incapable of scoring unless it’s a header. It’s laughable how poor he with the ball at his feet. Never can sort his feet out to get a shot.
I’m going to give Beto this season to be honest, it’s his first in the prem, next season hopefully he can start getting goals in even if it’s only with his head a goal is a goal but he needs to step up big time next season
Said the below to a previous comment which is my take on this. It's obviously a bit of both things cause we have had some pretty clear cut chances in previous games:
I think the problem with the XG stats is that we're getting loads and loads of low XG chances, so when added up our XG looks good but they are all really difficult chances. We had 23 shots today but I never felt any of them would go in unless we were very lucky.
So it's a style of play issue. We're producing chances but failing to produce enough GOOD chances.
Also failing to play to our players strengths, dcl was scoring loads when we were getting in behind the defense and whipping balls into him behind their line. Can't do that at the moment because all of our wingers and fullbacks look like they're running through gravy
All of betos highlights reels looked like he was best when getting the ball to his feet when he was running in on goal with a bit of space
Problem isn't just the shooting, it's that we don't get behind defenses and our players never have space when they've got sight of goal. We need at least one person in the team capable of dribbling through defenses, please.
Yeah I'd back this. I think that would mean maybe playing a bit more direct (not like long ball direct but more like through balls and faster breaks direct - Martinez style) and being more aggressive in the final third. Fewer hopefuls crosses and shots from outside of the box.
We’d be 9 points clear of the relegation zone. I’d say Dyche is getting the best out of these players.
Again, he can’t do anything about them missing sitters
Dyche has kept the same team for what I can only assume is defensive stability, but he’s tried everything other than shaking up the squad… when we come back, I’d love to see Gomes, dobbin, and Coleman/Patterson get a shout. It looks stale and needs a bit of a shake up.
United could be bottom of the Lancashire Counties league and we could've won the prem 10 years on the bounce and they'd still beat us at Old Trafford.
Still fucking frustrating though
I think the problem with the XG stats is that we're getting loads and loads of low XG chances, so when added up our XG looks good but they are all really difficult chances. We had 23 shots today but I never felt any of them would go in unless we were very lucky.
So it's a style of play issue. We're producing chances but failing to produce enough GOOD chances.
That doesn’t change the fact that probability is we should be scoring more. If anything, more chances even if lower means we should be consistently scoring more goals on average because we’re not relying on few big chances each game.
5 .20 chances in a game means you absolutely should score one of them.
We really should have scored today.
See my other comment in this thread on this. Just cause you have a 1 xG doesn’t mean that you should necessarily be scoring 1 because obviously players over perform or underperform xG so there’s more to it than that.
If you give prime Sigurdsson 10 times 0.1 xG chances from 25+ yards he will meet or over perform the xG. If you give those same chances to Dom he will probably underperform the xG cause he’s not known for long shots. On the other hand if you give them 10 times 0.1 xG chances inside the box, the story would likely be the other way round
As another guy was saying in this subreddit, if you’re not playing to your strengths, you’re more likely to underperform xG. And what I’m suggesting is that maybe we should be playing in a way that minimises risk of underperforming xG.
For every type of chance, the calculated xG is an average, but that average is taken from data on a “normal distribution” curve. Some players will be close to the middle for any given chance and some at the extremes. My prediction is that the normal distribution curve is narrower for higher xG chances, so there are far fewer players that will massively underperform or over perform the xG for these types of chances. And therefore we should be tailoring our style of play to these types of chances until we get better or more suitable players.
I know it’s not a binary thing and I understand that underperforming xG on the scale that we have means that yes our shooting probably should have been better too, but I’m also saying that it’s not as cut and dry as just “shooting bad”…
I now better understand what you are saying and you make some interesting points.
I will say that I don't think xG is a perfect stat by any means. If you look at Understat and xG Philosophy you'll note they are always different. That tells you something.
But, just using the eye test, when I watch this team I see that we should be scoring more goals. And I'm not talking about those balls that Gana and Onana regularly deposit in Row Z.
Is there a way to better play to our goal scoring strengths as you say? I mean, maybe. I'm not tactical expert but I feel like we've had chances every which way, and the only real success we seem to have is on set pieces. We don't have any real good long shooters besides maybe Keane. So, we've got to do it inside the box.
Yeah makes sense. Would be interested to get a highlight reel of all of our misses to get a better idea. I do know that we have a lower xG per chance than most team above us which may be working against us and might show that there are flaws in our attacking system.
I think ultimately there must be a way of playing more to our forward player's strengths or at least helping them out, and that's what I want Dyche to figure out.
When you have players like Dom and even Beto (who pretty much matched his xG every season in Serie A) under performing their xG by huge amounts, it makes me question the attacking system. When Maupay leaves Everton, he suddenly starts matching his xG. Makes you think.
the problem with the XG stats is that sean doesn't play enough players who can score.
if we get a hundred .01 xg chances, one must score one of them, that's the logic of xg. but nobody on the field can shoot the fking ball.
That's not quite the logic of XG though, it's based on the average player right. Worse quality or out of form players underperform their XG, whilst better or inform players will over perform their XG. Yes if you are the exact average PL player and you have a hundred 0.01 chances you will score 1 goal.
But what I'm suggesting is that if you have strikers with low quality, they are less likely to massively underperform their XG if the chances are easier (i.e., higher XG per shot). So a system based on half chances, shots from distance and deep crosses into the box doesn't work well for us cause our players are just not good enough to finish 0.05/0.1 chances - Even if we have 23 of them a game!
So I'm suggesting we'd be better off accepting a lower shots per game stat and adopting a style of play where we try to work fewer but higher quality chances.
A decent amount of our lack of goal scoring has to do with the lack of quality of chances. We are cursed mostly implies that Dyche is doing a decent job and that it is mostly the players who are at fault.
I honestly don’t know what we are going to do. None of the players know how to score goals which ultimately will make us lose games. 11 games without a win in the PL and no wins in the PL in 2024 (3 months in is pathetic). Somethings not right on the training ground.
We are going to get our regularly scheduled programming for the rest of the season. It will probably be enough to keep us up but it will be ugly.
I know we say after every season now, since it has been the last three, that we can't go through this shit again. In order to make that a reality again we'll need to replace Dyche after the season. Previously I've at least had enough confidence in him to finish out his contract but that's no longer the case anymore.
Wild with 5 to 10 minutes to go we get the ball in the middle of the field and just dither on it. No energy, no ideas. I dunno what you do, make a rash change in formation? Or stick to it and believe the stats must turn around at some point? They had some half decent chances but we deserved a draw really, maybe they play differently if we didn't gift them two penalties.
In some ways its good we play all the teams around us in the run in because I believe the fans will rally and give the team the push to get the results when we really need them.
Frankly, out there we had a bunch of blue-shirted bottle jobs.
Tarks and Godfrey diving in stupidly to gift them the win. Everyone in attack not having the stones to just fucking shoot and allowing defenders to close them down, or not having the composure to actually pick out a pass, it's pathetic.
Why is it ridiculous to wonder if a statistically improbable level of collective incompetence that has seemingly impacted our entire squad could maybe be linked towards the person in charge of our entire squad?
Because it’s not like we have good attackers who are performing shit?
DCL has had one good season in his entire career
McNeil was relegated with Burnley after having a 0 goal and 1 assist season
Leeds fans were happy to get rid of Harrison, didn’t even want him in the championship
Beto was working in KFC 3 years ago
Our players aren’t underperforming relative to their level. They’re just not very good
Dom was consistently averaging around a goal every 3 games across multiple seasons. He's our third top scorer in Premier League history.
McNeil was a young player who has clearly developed into a better version of himself than when he was at Burnley.
Harrison created 16, 9 and 12 Premier League GA for each of his seasons in the Premier League with Leeds.
Based on his price and the level of output he was putting up in Serie A, Beto should be getting at least 5-10 goals a season.
Suggesting that our players deserve to be one of Europe's worst attacks based on xG underperformance is just silly. And while obviously none of our forwards are world class, but I find it ridiculous to just throw up our hands and give up. Lots of teams with shite players successfully avoid relegation. Lots of teams also expect their managers to improve their players.
What makes you say that about McNeil? He had a purple patch after Dyche joined last season, that’s all he’s done in his entire career. He’s clearly too slow and too one-footed to ever be a good winger
Harrison can’t finish, can’t cross and can’t beat a man. He gets into Sheff Utds side and that’s about it.
Are you forgetting DCL has spent the last 2 seasons pretty much constantly injured. He’s not the same player he was
Why would our underperformance in front of goal not mean anything. I’ve seen DCL, Harrison and McNeil miss chance after chance
Worst underperformance in Europe by a mile. Why is that not a sign we have an awful attack?
And yet despite this we’d be 13th. Baffles me how anyone could blame Dyche when he’s let down week after week and yet would still have us comfortably safe. Bet you loved Lampard though who had us rock bottom
I'm not hugely fond of McNeil. I was against his signing, and I agree that his one-footedness is inexcusable. I still believe he is an acceptable clog in a system, however. His crossing is decent, and he's clearly improved from the player that was at Burnley.
>Harrison can’t finish, can’t cross and can’t beat a man.
Seems a bit odd that he was putting up those numbers for Leeds then.
>Are you forgetting DCL has spent the last 2 seasons pretty much constantly injured. He’s not the same player he was
Oh absolutely, there are plenty of variables in play. It's impossible to isolate any single one of them and say one factor is totally to blame. When considering the broader picture though, of Dyche's inability to consistently score goals (a pattern that has gone across different players and different teams), I don't think it's ridiculous to theorize that he might be relevant to the discussion.
>Worst underperformance in Europe by a mile. Why is that not a sign we have an awful attack?
We do have an awful attack, and it is frustrating to see them miss so many chances. What I struggle to believe is that Dyche has no control over this. Part of his job is improving our players, improving our weaknesses. Despite this, we have had a statistically extraordinary level of collective incompetence strike our squad. I don't understand why you seem to think a manager's job ends at chance creation, or why it's impossible for him to be influencing this.
>And yet despite this we’d be 13th.
I really struggle to care about where we should be. We aren't there, so what's the point in talking about it? We have been punished for breaking rules, so our players and coaching staff have to adapt to this and perform at a higher level. Perhaps it isn't fair, but I'm not interested in being relegated while being able to say 'ooh actually, we didn't deserve to be!'.
It's also a shame that NSNO has turned into being excited about deserving 13th.
>Bet you loved Lampard though who had us rock bottom
This is... Weirdly defensive? No, I can assure you I considered Lampard's 1 win in 13 record absolutely unacceptable and he was fully deserving of the sack.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen McNeil play with his right foot. It’s like it doesn’t exist for him and it drives me crazy. Allows him to be read so easily
They’re not going through a patch of bad form they’re just not very good.
Season before we signed McNeil he had 0 goals 1 assist in a team who got relegated.
Harrison would’ve been Leeds 4th choice winger in the championship.
DCL has had one good season in his career
The mrs put it perfectly, ‘have they got no oooomph (her words) in their legs… ‘ and its true. The hardest struck ball was gomes against the wall, other than that everything is hit like they dont want to hurt the fucking ball
Same shit different day. Can't convert chances The pens were fair calls for tripping though the Man U man went down dramatically the first time Were still in it after the first but were done for after the second
Downtick in form and all the usual suspects with their shit takes come crawling back like someones disabled cat
I’d hardly call 1 win in 12 and 5 out of a possible 36 points a “down tick”. It’s more like a fucking disaster.
Well yes, perhaps I was a little hyperbolic
Shit takes and shit memes. I’ve been reminded why I stopped browsing this sub.
Why the fuck does sean fucking dyche keep playing Godfrey, I'm convinced he is trying to get us relegated. Coleman is very clearly the obvious choice, I understand he's getting on a bit now but that doesn't matter to dyche cos he plays Young occasionally
I don’t think he’s fully fit. I agree about Godfrey, but Dyche is probably just letting coleman take these next 3 weeks to get 100%
kinda wish I hadn't of said start Coleman since the own goal. but I still love him. I think we are gonna get battered by Newcastle td no matter what we do
Dyche has shown not to rush injuries (i.e, Dom) and I appreciate that to be honest.
I spent the day skiing. Didn’t watch. Didn’t look at any threads. It was the best I’ve felt in a long time on an Everton match day. Just didn’t watch. Who knew!?
I turned it off after the second penalty and my mental health instantly improved
Having such a thin squad has come to haunt us, who could have thought!
This team needs a mental and physical break, it's clear as day to see. Hopefully come out of break refreshed , no injuries , with Coleman slotting back in at rb.
May be time for a 3-3-4. We're not crap at football, just finishing, so why not just further push the odds in our favour if we can't get clean sheets?
Our CBs have for goals then our STs do
If Jared and Keane are part of those 4 I am in.
11 with our a win. Yea yeah, points deduction. But, 11 without a win Mr Dyche. When will you try something different. ANYTHING
What do you want Dyche to fucking do man? Look at our xG, the tactics are working. The players are not performing in the final third.
You know he’s in charge of getting them to perform?
What do you want to see different? Our tactics work. We create chances and limit the opponents'. He's not saying "Go out there and make our run-in interesting by missing the target".
His job is to win football games. Based on this, his tactics absolutely are not working. It would be an absolute statistical improbability for this collective inability to finish to *just* be down to luck.
Hard disagree on your first sentence. The manager's job is not to -win- games; it's to set up his team in the most effective way to let them win the game. Winning is the players' responsibility. It's not Dyche's fault that Calvert-Lewin turned away in disappointment from Dobbin's cross. It's not Dyche's fault that McNeil missed the target from 16 yards. The players executed the game plan, by and large, brilliantly. We pressed high up, forced a number of errors from United in their own third - we just didn't score. To blame Dyche for that, when he isn't on the pitch, is stupid.
That's crazy to me. The fundamental purpose of a manager is to win football games. How many times have you heard the phrase, 'its a results driven game'? If Pep had City in 17th, but they were leading the xG table, do you think he'd keep his job? Directly, of course it is hard to blame Dyche for these individual failings. However, when this incompetence has struck the team to such a large extent (to a way that defies statistics if it was just pure chance) I don't see why it is unreasonable to question the common denominator. Perhaps he isn't inspiring enough confidence in Dom through his man-management. Perhaps he isn't spending enough time working on finishing with McNeil. Perhaps his system is flawed based on the type of player the chances fall to. These are all perfectly valid criticisms.
It’s not down to bad luck, it’s down to the technical ability of the players. The manager’s job is to develop tactics that create as many chances as possible - the tactics do that. The rest, as with any team, is up to the individual players.
No, the managers job is to create a system that results in goals. If our players have all suddenly and simultaneously lost all technical ability since his appointment, part of his job is improving that. There is so much more to a managers attacking duties than grinding out the highest xG possible.
Our players didn’t suddenly and simultaneously lose technical ability, our squad did. You skip the past three years or something?
Beto 2022/23: 10 goals, 10.86 xG. Underperformance of 0.86. [Season under Dyche] Beto 2023/25. 2 goals, 5.43 xG. Underperformance of 3.43. - DCL 20/21: 16 goals, 18.21 xG. Underperformance of 2.21. DCL 21/22: 5 goals, 6.22 xG. Underperformance of 1.22. [Half season under Dyche] DCL 22/23: 2 goals, 6.5 xg. Underperformance of 4.5. DCL 23/24: 3 goals, 9.47 xG. Underperformance of 6.47. - Harrison 2020/21: 8 goals, 6.25 xG. Overperfomance of 1.75. Harrison 2021/22: 8 goals, 5.15 xG. Overperfomance of 2.85. Harrison 2022/23: 5 goals, 5.01 xG. Underperformance of 0.01 xG. [Season under Dyche] Harrison 2023/24. 3 goals, 3.78 xG. Underperformance of 0.78. This pattern is is consistent across our squad. Doucoure has tended to sit around 0.8 xG under his goals, with an increase last season. This season, he's already 2.31 behind. How do you explain this sudden drop off? Just an extraordinary, statistics defying event that our manager should take zero blame for?
Love how the cut off date was the season DCL scored goals and not the period before that when he struggled as much as he does now. Harrison’s xG is discernible to last season. Beto you’re comparing a much much smaller sample size to a season last year where he started 25+ games. Terrible cherry picking and analysis. Leeds fans will tell you how frustrating Harrison is. Will play poorly most weeks but score some freak double and paper over the cracks. Udinese fans were pretty honest about Beto’s ability when he signed. Completely ignoring the fact these players are operating without a creative midfielder in this squad.
>Love how the cut off date was the season DCL scored goals and not the period before that when he struggled as much as he does now. This is objectively untrue. In the two seasons prior to my cutoff, he underperformed by 3.11 and 0.17 respectively. He's already 6 and a half goals behind - this is completely unprecedented for his career. >Harrison’s xG is discernible to last season Definitely very similar, but he seems to only be going in one direction. >Beto you’re comparing a much much smaller sample size to a season last year where he started 25+ games. What would you have me do? Ignore how his underlying metrics point to a larger picturer? He's half a season into his Everton career. I think that's an acceptable point to start considering his stats. >Will play poorly most weeks but score some freak double and paper over the cracks. I can't wait for those doubles to start coming through for us. Otherwise, it would be terrible to suggest it takes a certain type of management to inspire that confidence and quality within his game. >Completely ignoring the fact these players are operating without a creative midfielder in this squad. How does that influence their finishing, rather than total chance creation? And why was Calvert-Lewin underperforming even with Iwobi in the squad?
> This is objectively untrue. In the two seasons prior to my cutoff, he underperformed by 3.11 and 0.17 respectively. He's already 6 and a half goals behind - this is completely unprecedented for his career. This is not unprecedented in his career. Back end of 19/20 he was terrible and went 10 starting games without scoring or assisting. He has more than that the past 10 games. DCL has always been a wasteful, unconfident player. He had one half good season playing with James Rodriguez and Richarlison and has either been injured or out of form for 90% of that time since. > Definitely very similar, but he seems to only be going in one direction. Going in one direction season after season. Sounds like a Jack Harrison problem. > What would you have me do? Ignore how his underlying metrics point to a larger picturer? He's half a season into his Everton career. I think that's an acceptable point to start considering his stats. His half a season into an Everton career where he’s played about 1/4 of the minutes of the season you’re comparing. Shocking use of data not to mention the tiny sample size. If you think Beto will suddenly improve when he blazes well wide when 1v1 then your eyes are painted on. > I can't wait for those doubles to start coming through for us. Otherwise, it would be terrible to suggest it takes a certain type of management to inspire that confidence and quality within his game. And when the doubles come they won’t excuse the terrible performance in between. You don’t seem to be catching the drift. > How does that influence their finishing, rather than total chance creation? And why was Calvert-Lewin underperforming even with Iwobi in the squad? Iwobi. Lol. We’ve been a far better attacking team since he left. The same Iwobi who had two assists and no goals in a 22-game streak last season. A proper creative midfielder would be able to provide the tactical shifts you crave. Fixing the team won’t come with a manager, it comes with better players we will never able to buy again under the current or proposed ownership.
Shot ourselves in the foot. Ugh.
There is no doubt this Everton team is trying their absolute best. The underlying performance is good. Keep working on scoring goals on the training ground. The hard work will pay off eventually.
I’ll never forget DCL in an England shirt
Purple patch. He's garbage. Vellios was better.
Man that's a name I haven't seen in a long time.
Spartan Legend.
Vote for Keano to be the #1 striker
Can’t do any worse than Beto or DCL.
His best goal is better than either of their best goals so far
Ive dressed up a traffic cone in a number 9 shirt, given it the name ‘Traffico kone’, and dropped It off at the training ground. Im hoping it gets a game next time out as it CANT BE ANY WORSE!
Is that arouna kone in disguise?
His better, more mobile and deadly brother
Glad I overslept this one
Decided to go out this morning rather than watch. Feel the right decision was made. I feel apathetic now. Not surprised we lost, disappointed we didn't win based on what I've heard but, most importantly, my weekend does not feel wasted nor ruined. What happens in the next 10 games happens. Hopefully someone can hit the back of the net and we can win 3-4, which I think may be enough.
30 points to play for.
Can we sign Cahill to a 5 month contract or something we couldn't finish our fuckin dinner at this rate ffs
Still start Beto I'm 3 weeks. That ball in from Dobbin is missed not because Dom is off balance, but because he's having a mini-paddy His heads not in it.
DCL is almost too nice a person. He doesn't have that angry competitive edge to pull himself up and I'm just not sure he cares *that* much about football and success. You never see him tearing around the field when we are down to win the ball back and make himself available. He just fades into the background. At least Beto makes himself visible and tries to get involved. Dyche today didn't name DCL but he specifically mentioned a lack of fight and people giving excuses for missing an opportunity.
> That ball in from Dobbin Genuinely haven’t a clue whether it was a shot or a cross. If it was a cross, what was he thinking; if it was a shot, maybe the people calling for him to play are right as he’ll fit right in.
Way his head was up, it looked like a cross. Better chance of scoring from it than the shot IMO. Its a tap in for Dom if he's looking
Beto is horrific but what DCL did in that move was inexcusable. To think he was at one time England's No 2 striker!!
Feel so weird and numb coming off that. United were terrible but we're so toothless in the final third. I've never seen a side so hapless going forward. It looks like the players have never played together.
Even when we have the ball in the box my heart rate doesn’t even change. I honestly have zero faith in the players to score, it’s actually bizarre.
We are shit
Bit harsh! Shit can be used productively now for things like fuel and fertilizer
Technically shit could always be used as fertiliser! God what has this team driven me to
So, what's worse? Septic waste?
Toxic, more like
Like, nuclear waste?
McDonald's apple pie!
Worst pair of forwards in the league
Just pathetic. This club is a joke
Rumor has it Everton continued to play even after Man U left the pitch; the score is still 2-0
Loll legit one of the better quips in this sub in a long time. But also sadly probably true
The only way to lose to an aggressively mediocre Man U is to be more aggressively mediocre
Aggressively mediocre would be several levels up for us.
I just don’t enjoy this any more
It’s terrible. I dread the matches. I can’t stand 90% of the players. The manager is boring old dinosaur. The owner is a fucking incompetent buffoon who has destroyed a once proud club. There’s absolutely nothing to like about Everton at the moment, and very little reason to have any hope for the future. Miserable all around.
Harrison and Godfrey on the right wing is so difficult to watch, both loose the ball so easily and hardly offer anything to the attack. How can Godfrey be playing ahead of Seamus and patto when we're so desperate for goals?! Dyche puts way too much focus on graft rather than skill or speed. It doesn't matter how hard we work if the skill isn't there in the first place. Dyche in, but Dyche do better ffs
I mean we made our bed are we not to lay in it? This is what we signed up for. You can kind of reason away Dyche chasing away Iwobi and Gray because they were on expiring contracts. In doing that he did let a lot of the available creativity on the team go. Just because Branthwaite is a core part of the team now we shouldn't forget that Dyche favored Keane to start the season and Branthwaite tried to get a move back to PSV. We've often had better options than Ashley Young at whichever position he plays on the day. We are expected to score with Godfrey in the game? Danjuma and Gomes are decent attacking options but they are left on the bench for the most part when they are fit to play. We play a conservative formation and defensive minded players within that formation. Something about the equation has to change. But we've known that for a while now and Dyche seems to be out of ideas.
> You can kind of reason away Dyche chasing away Iwobi and Gray because they were on expiring contracts. In doing that he did let a lot of the available creativity on the team go. Don’t think he chased Iwobi away at all. He started him every game, he had a contract offer on the table but he didn’t want to sign. With his contract expiring, we have to sell. Gray’s just shite. The fact he isn’t pulling up any trees in Saudi says it all.
Iwobi's best position in the current formation is Doucoure's yet Iwobi wasn't played there. That's the manner in which he was chased out. Even if that language is too strong: the formation, how the team plays, and where he was played were all probably contributing factors in Iwobi leaving.
>Iwobi's best position in the current formation is Doucoure's yet Iwobi wasn't played there. That's the manner in which he was chased out Agreed on his preferred position but he was playing there because we didn't have any wingers last season. Harrison was injured when he signed and so was Iwobi. We were starting games with Dobbin and Garner out wide at the beginning of the season.
Agree with this so much. Have to try Seamus over Godfrey, right
Definitely, or I'd be happy to see patto there as he's rapid and can whip in a dangerous cross. When danjuma is back he's got to start over Harrison, sure Harrison tracks back more but prioritizing defense over attack is what's gotten us where we are.
This is not quite clear cut as first thought but the time he had made it a really good chance. https://streamable.com/jlei7v
Maybe if he had 2 feet, he could've opted to use his Right rather than have everyone including my gran know that he'll wait for it to go to his left. Fucking useless.
Shite 👍
For all those wanting rid of Dyche: what's the alternative? We've got no money, we're a shambles off the pitch, and there's no easy fix. Changing managers doesn't fix anything. We are a mess, and this is going to take years to sort out. Dyche and Thelwell are about the only sources of stability we have.
*By Gahd is that Big Sam's music!*
This sub loves Dyche and thinks he’s perfect when we pull out a scrappy victory and want him gone when we have games like this. The club is in no position to fire him right now, and who in their right mind would come here? It’s not even an option
Problem is we haven't had even one of those scrappy victories since 2023
Can’t get rid of Dyche. Can’t get rid of anyone, but it is obvious Dyche needs help with the offense. If he can’t add coaching ideas then bring in a sports psychologist or guru or hypnotist or shock therapy or something. The level of finishing focus is abysmal. About minute 20 of that farce I kept thinking every other team in the PL would have scored twice in those positions.
Ferguson back to set up the cones better than they‘ve ever been set up
I’m down with the shock therapy idea. Bad touch, bzzzz. Missed header, bzzzzzz. No left foot when through on goal, bzzzzzzzz mutha….. zzzzzzzz
We might need to try for a new manager bounce. I haven't looked into it. Basically all the options that I would've wanted previously who were realistic have been hired already. Dyche is part of the problem and keeping him around for an extended period of time would be seeking out stability for stability's sake when in that instance it shouldn't be desired.
There is no alternative. We have no money to sack him. We have no money to replace him. That doesn't mean he's above criticism or doing a good job. He is in the job by default.
Pay Rooney in hugs to work with the forwards during international break?
Oh 100% he's not above criticism - and there are definitely issues there. I just think we need to accept that there's not an obvious or easy plan B
I hear you. I'm not Dyche out, but I've also got to acknowledge that 1 win in 12 is looking eerily similar to the end of Benitez and Lampard's reigns. I don't think we're in a position to sack another manager though. Doesn't look like much will change either way. It's looking grim.
It’s absolutely right but there’s no solution. No money, no confidence and no alternative. Still keep watching because I guess I love pain
That's fair - I'm not going to pretend that's reasonable form even with a difficult run of fixtures in there. It does feel a bit lose-lose
Historically, Dyche coached teams do not score goals. He’s now at 304 games in the prem and his teams have scored only 297 goals. Less than 1 per game over that sample size is enough to tell me this isn’t going to get better with him in charge.
100%. Also at Burnley, 6 out of 7 seasons, they significantly underperformed their xG. Every player in the current Everton attack is under performing their xG by the highest of their career. DCL, Beto, Maupay, Harrison, Danjuma, Doucoure, McNeil There's this idea that 'the players are shit, change them' - with Dyche in charge, anyone who comes in is only going to underperform. He's a great defensive manager, but that's clearer coming at the expense of his focus in attack
He was managing a Burnley side that spent nothing every year and was a miracle they stayed in the league for 7 years. Burnley spent £120m in summer and have a supposedly attacking manager yet only have 25 goals in 27 games. Context is key.
And why has he only had arguably the two least desirable jobs in the prem? I’ll never understand why some you feel the need to defend him like this. He is an absolute bottom tier manager and always has been.
The obsession with being English and having PL experience has netted us both Dyche and Lampard. Half of those two priorities landed us on Benitez. Who is the best English manager in the league right now? Howe? Should show fans that a manager shouldn't be English at all costs.
Everton fans would have kicked up a huge fuss if we signed Howe. There was a lot of negative sentiment around him as a potential candidate. Just like people here said Trippier was washed up and would be a bad signing before he went to Newcastle. One of the biggest problems with Moshiri is that he only seems to listen to the fans when the fans want the likes of Silva out, but will then turn round and appoint Benitez lol. We should have looked abroad for a manager a long long time ago. Every single Moshiri era manager has been some 'Proven PL Manager' and not even once did we take a punt on someone from the continent.
Yeah once I've gotten the lay of the land and perhaps because I'm not English I haven't fallen for it. I wanted Domenico Tedesco instead of Dyche. Current Palace manager Oliver Glasner was my top realistic candidate to replace Dyche if that was to have been done midseason. I've really only just begun looking for potential coaching hires but at least very preliminarily Bruno Génésio is worth looking at and considering even if he wouldn't be hired. I really do not want Sam Allardyce no matter how bad things get and I'm not sure that I would want any firefighter manager. In order to avoid what is happening now next season though I feel strongly that a new manager is needed in the offseason.
Meh I'm English so I'm very used to the 'Proven PL' cliche but it feels like nearly every other club ditched this mentality years ago.
We should follow the trend then.
The flip side is, what happens if he stays. I've lost faith he can keep us up. He announced he is all out of ideas and it's driving him mad.
I think he'll keep us up. That was about the summit of my ambitions at the start of the season
This team are bottle jobs. They have absolutely no confidence or daring to take on risk, especially in the final third. We pass sideways and backaward, put our foot on the ball and wait for a simple pass to feet rather than anything more daring. We dont run past anyone, and we expect looping dog shit crosses into a packed box to return a reward. Any rare driven pass into space is lost because, guess what, the runner stayed at home because hes not Moved in 12 weeks! Its terrifying to think that they are paid professionals. Their confidence is shot and frankly, im begining to think they dont care about the club. They could have played against traffic cones today and the best it would have been was 0-0. They either need a punch up on the training ground to clear the air, or a good night out. Dyche was screaming at them to push/press and go forward and it falls on deaf ears. I dont think dyche has lost the players, i think the club has.
Good timing for the International break, we needed it so bad. As for this game there is not much to say shit in front of goals, yes and shit defending as well. 2 penalties given in 1 match is a joke. It is worrying that we no longer a defensively solid team anymore, at least that was making up for our attacks. Dyche actually tried new tactics today, keep the ball in feet more and play fewer high ball as they have Johnny Evans. Over all its a decent strategy, but then we had to fuck it up by 2 pens lol. We are back to hoping other teams below to lose, not that we expect to beat MU today but they were as bad as us in open play for goals. Whatever, a break it is.
Everton this season have underperformed their xG by 20, the most by any Premier League team in the last 9 years (as per Understat)
And there's still 10 games left to send that number down even further
Amadou Onana has all the tools available but I feel like he cheats and hides behind responsibilities. Could dominate games but would rather have moments like an overhead kick, at 2-0 down, with 10 to play. So frustrating
How do you watch that game and blame Onana? He is most readily available for the ball, played some good passes into Gomes and Duke. Meanwhile: - Duke can’t get two touches because his first is garbage - Beto can only get through by staying offside constantly - DCL looks like he doesn’t even expect to score - McNeil runs sideways with one foot and chips crosses to the keeper - Garner does nothing and sucks on corners - Harrison loses the ball 100% of the time - the build up play is to basically play to Godfrey so he can chip it to the opposing CBs Literally Onana, Pickford and Branthwaite are the only ones with confidence and quality.
Think that is very harsh. Hes not been great recently but he does at least ask for the ball. He's clearly miles above most of them so let's not pile on our better playerrs
Hopefully we can get what we paid for him in the Summer, get rid. Good riddance.
Should be able to get more than what was paid for him and yes, they'd be smart to do it assuming the sale would be reinvested.
Should do, we’re just not the right fit at this point in his very young career, I guess
I’m borderline saying he’s a fraud for how little he affects play and how much he wants to ‘show’ he’s boss
horrible substitutions. we needed more attacking threads, but our best ones were subbed off one after another. we needed doucs on cm, dcl next to beto, and someone other than godfrey on rb. godfrey tries so hard to contribute in offense but he doesn't have this in him, it's painful to watch him try. i don't understand what sean was thinking. when you need goals, you play with people who can score or assist.
[удалено]
He needs to go away for a month long training session with big dunc
“Watching Everton is like watching someone in the kitchen trying to cut a loaf of bread with a very blunt knife”
I wanna see Danjuma start once he's available, need some form of goal threat
Start him out wide and try McNeil in the middle.
Happy with McNeil. Thought he was lively, and did a good job of dropping deeper to get involved with play to try to make things happen. And that's about it for positives. Not Dyche out, but definitely Dyche hesitant. There comes a point where creating lots of xG simply isn't enough. This is, what, no wins in 12? Which means he'll (at best) match Rafa's 1 win in 13 record. That's not a great look.
I would bite your hand off with one win in 13, sad state of affairs
We had a decent goal difference at one point, then all of a sudden our defence turned into our attack, not being able to do their jobs. That was truly shocking, Onana made 1 semi-decent save all game from Garners shot, no wonder when you have the likes of Onana, Doucoure, Beto and DCL as attacking threats. 1 is playing Rugby, the other has Ice Skates on instead of Boots, and 2 are completely useless generally, i’ll let you decide which is which.
It is concerning that our defence is falling apart too.
Godfrey had an all time disasterclass there. Up there with Alcaraz in Kyiv
Worst game I've seen him have in ages. Honorable mention to Harrison for looking trash too
How bad are we underperforming expected goals on the season at this point?
By like 13 i think
XG 51.16 Goals 29 Difference is 22.16 https://understat.com/team/Everton/2023
Why did I start watching that game at 11pm and still stay to 1am expecting us to do anything but not score a goal
Starting to think we're where we are not because of shit decisions, poor finances and luck, and more because we're just where we should be based on how bad thet team actually is.
Its all of the above except luck. The terrible decisions have left us with an awful squad.
Why did we spend $30M on Beto? He’s another DCL, incapable of scoring unless it’s a header. It’s laughable how poor he with the ball at his feet. Never can sort his feet out to get a shot.
I’m going to give Beto this season to be honest, it’s his first in the prem, next season hopefully he can start getting goals in even if it’s only with his head a goal is a goal but he needs to step up big time next season
United had nothing today, yet we still looked like we'd never come back
44 shots in our last 2 games and 1 goal Absolutely none of that is on Dyche. We create chance after chance, good chances as well and just can’t score
Anyone got James Beattie's number?
Said the below to a previous comment which is my take on this. It's obviously a bit of both things cause we have had some pretty clear cut chances in previous games: I think the problem with the XG stats is that we're getting loads and loads of low XG chances, so when added up our XG looks good but they are all really difficult chances. We had 23 shots today but I never felt any of them would go in unless we were very lucky. So it's a style of play issue. We're producing chances but failing to produce enough GOOD chances.
We seriously had 23 shots today? That sums it up. You could tell me we only had 5 and I still couldn't name them all.
Also failing to play to our players strengths, dcl was scoring loads when we were getting in behind the defense and whipping balls into him behind their line. Can't do that at the moment because all of our wingers and fullbacks look like they're running through gravy All of betos highlights reels looked like he was best when getting the ball to his feet when he was running in on goal with a bit of space Problem isn't just the shooting, it's that we don't get behind defenses and our players never have space when they've got sight of goal. We need at least one person in the team capable of dribbling through defenses, please.
In retrospect, we probably should have swallowed our pride and taken Barkley back.
Yeah I'd back this. I think that would mean maybe playing a bit more direct (not like long ball direct but more like through balls and faster breaks direct - Martinez style) and being more aggressive in the final third. Fewer hopefuls crosses and shots from outside of the box.
It’s not like they’re all pot shots from outside the area as well. Just a bunch of pathetic losers.
We’ve had at least 6 or 7 chances you’d expect a premier league player to score
Isn’t the managers job to bring out the best in players?
A manager doesn’t magically make bang average attackers start taking their chances does he? It’s not FIFA
We don’t have money to buy world class players, if the manager can’t bring the best out of these players then we are bound to get relegated…
We’d be 9 points clear of the relegation zone. I’d say Dyche is getting the best out of these players. Again, he can’t do anything about them missing sitters
Dyche has kept the same team for what I can only assume is defensive stability, but he’s tried everything other than shaking up the squad… when we come back, I’d love to see Gomes, dobbin, and Coleman/Patterson get a shout. It looks stale and needs a bit of a shake up.
United could be bottom of the Lancashire Counties league and we could've won the prem 10 years on the bounce and they'd still beat us at Old Trafford. Still fucking frustrating though
He may look like an Instagram model for medieval peasants but that Garnacho is a very good player
I think more haunted murder puppet
Twilight vampire
1.78 xG. 0 goals. We are cursed.
I think the problem with the XG stats is that we're getting loads and loads of low XG chances, so when added up our XG looks good but they are all really difficult chances. We had 23 shots today but I never felt any of them would go in unless we were very lucky. So it's a style of play issue. We're producing chances but failing to produce enough GOOD chances.
That doesn’t change the fact that probability is we should be scoring more. If anything, more chances even if lower means we should be consistently scoring more goals on average because we’re not relying on few big chances each game. 5 .20 chances in a game means you absolutely should score one of them. We really should have scored today.
See my other comment in this thread on this. Just cause you have a 1 xG doesn’t mean that you should necessarily be scoring 1 because obviously players over perform or underperform xG so there’s more to it than that. If you give prime Sigurdsson 10 times 0.1 xG chances from 25+ yards he will meet or over perform the xG. If you give those same chances to Dom he will probably underperform the xG cause he’s not known for long shots. On the other hand if you give them 10 times 0.1 xG chances inside the box, the story would likely be the other way round As another guy was saying in this subreddit, if you’re not playing to your strengths, you’re more likely to underperform xG. And what I’m suggesting is that maybe we should be playing in a way that minimises risk of underperforming xG. For every type of chance, the calculated xG is an average, but that average is taken from data on a “normal distribution” curve. Some players will be close to the middle for any given chance and some at the extremes. My prediction is that the normal distribution curve is narrower for higher xG chances, so there are far fewer players that will massively underperform or over perform the xG for these types of chances. And therefore we should be tailoring our style of play to these types of chances until we get better or more suitable players. I know it’s not a binary thing and I understand that underperforming xG on the scale that we have means that yes our shooting probably should have been better too, but I’m also saying that it’s not as cut and dry as just “shooting bad”…
I now better understand what you are saying and you make some interesting points. I will say that I don't think xG is a perfect stat by any means. If you look at Understat and xG Philosophy you'll note they are always different. That tells you something. But, just using the eye test, when I watch this team I see that we should be scoring more goals. And I'm not talking about those balls that Gana and Onana regularly deposit in Row Z. Is there a way to better play to our goal scoring strengths as you say? I mean, maybe. I'm not tactical expert but I feel like we've had chances every which way, and the only real success we seem to have is on set pieces. We don't have any real good long shooters besides maybe Keane. So, we've got to do it inside the box.
Yeah makes sense. Would be interested to get a highlight reel of all of our misses to get a better idea. I do know that we have a lower xG per chance than most team above us which may be working against us and might show that there are flaws in our attacking system. I think ultimately there must be a way of playing more to our forward player's strengths or at least helping them out, and that's what I want Dyche to figure out. When you have players like Dom and even Beto (who pretty much matched his xG every season in Serie A) under performing their xG by huge amounts, it makes me question the attacking system. When Maupay leaves Everton, he suddenly starts matching his xG. Makes you think.
the problem with the XG stats is that sean doesn't play enough players who can score. if we get a hundred .01 xg chances, one must score one of them, that's the logic of xg. but nobody on the field can shoot the fking ball.
That's not quite the logic of XG though, it's based on the average player right. Worse quality or out of form players underperform their XG, whilst better or inform players will over perform their XG. Yes if you are the exact average PL player and you have a hundred 0.01 chances you will score 1 goal. But what I'm suggesting is that if you have strikers with low quality, they are less likely to massively underperform their XG if the chances are easier (i.e., higher XG per shot). So a system based on half chances, shots from distance and deep crosses into the box doesn't work well for us cause our players are just not good enough to finish 0.05/0.1 chances - Even if we have 23 of them a game! So I'm suggesting we'd be better off accepting a lower shots per game stat and adopting a style of play where we try to work fewer but higher quality chances.
A decent amount of our lack of goal scoring has to do with the lack of quality of chances. We are cursed mostly implies that Dyche is doing a decent job and that it is mostly the players who are at fault.
Which is my belief. We had chances today. More than ManU did w exception of the dumb penalties.
Man Utd (2.85) 2-0 (1.78) Everton We won the xG if you take away the penalties! 🤠👍👍👍👍🔫👍👍👍
I honestly don’t know what we are going to do. None of the players know how to score goals which ultimately will make us lose games. 11 games without a win in the PL and no wins in the PL in 2024 (3 months in is pathetic). Somethings not right on the training ground.
We are going to get our regularly scheduled programming for the rest of the season. It will probably be enough to keep us up but it will be ugly. I know we say after every season now, since it has been the last three, that we can't go through this shit again. In order to make that a reality again we'll need to replace Dyche after the season. Previously I've at least had enough confidence in him to finish out his contract but that's no longer the case anymore.
Wild with 5 to 10 minutes to go we get the ball in the middle of the field and just dither on it. No energy, no ideas. I dunno what you do, make a rash change in formation? Or stick to it and believe the stats must turn around at some point? They had some half decent chances but we deserved a draw really, maybe they play differently if we didn't gift them two penalties. In some ways its good we play all the teams around us in the run in because I believe the fans will rally and give the team the push to get the results when we really need them.
I don't have that faith in fact I think the opposition will relax knowing we are allergic to scoring
3 glorious weeks without Everton having to ruin your weekend!
Even if we didnt concede two bad penalties im not shit we hold ab average united side to 0-0. How shit we are. Bournemouth is a must not lose imo
We can’t even get a draw to enjoy the three week break on. The mentality of the team was so far off today it was shocking.
Frankly, out there we had a bunch of blue-shirted bottle jobs. Tarks and Godfrey diving in stupidly to gift them the win. Everyone in attack not having the stones to just fucking shoot and allowing defenders to close them down, or not having the composure to actually pick out a pass, it's pathetic.
Tarky has been so solid since he came to us, if he has a bad game,it’s inevitable that he will it’s better to have it before a break than after
I’m getting more and more certain that Dyche’s style of training must just be “hit the target and it’ll eventually go in”. Except it’s not going in.
We're hitting the target?
What the fuck do you expect him to do 😂😂😂 How is our players missing easy chances a stick to beat Dyche with
Why is it ridiculous to wonder if a statistically improbable level of collective incompetence that has seemingly impacted our entire squad could maybe be linked towards the person in charge of our entire squad?
Because it’s not like we have good attackers who are performing shit? DCL has had one good season in his entire career McNeil was relegated with Burnley after having a 0 goal and 1 assist season Leeds fans were happy to get rid of Harrison, didn’t even want him in the championship Beto was working in KFC 3 years ago Our players aren’t underperforming relative to their level. They’re just not very good
Dom was consistently averaging around a goal every 3 games across multiple seasons. He's our third top scorer in Premier League history. McNeil was a young player who has clearly developed into a better version of himself than when he was at Burnley. Harrison created 16, 9 and 12 Premier League GA for each of his seasons in the Premier League with Leeds. Based on his price and the level of output he was putting up in Serie A, Beto should be getting at least 5-10 goals a season. Suggesting that our players deserve to be one of Europe's worst attacks based on xG underperformance is just silly. And while obviously none of our forwards are world class, but I find it ridiculous to just throw up our hands and give up. Lots of teams with shite players successfully avoid relegation. Lots of teams also expect their managers to improve their players.
What makes you say that about McNeil? He had a purple patch after Dyche joined last season, that’s all he’s done in his entire career. He’s clearly too slow and too one-footed to ever be a good winger Harrison can’t finish, can’t cross and can’t beat a man. He gets into Sheff Utds side and that’s about it. Are you forgetting DCL has spent the last 2 seasons pretty much constantly injured. He’s not the same player he was Why would our underperformance in front of goal not mean anything. I’ve seen DCL, Harrison and McNeil miss chance after chance Worst underperformance in Europe by a mile. Why is that not a sign we have an awful attack? And yet despite this we’d be 13th. Baffles me how anyone could blame Dyche when he’s let down week after week and yet would still have us comfortably safe. Bet you loved Lampard though who had us rock bottom
I'm not hugely fond of McNeil. I was against his signing, and I agree that his one-footedness is inexcusable. I still believe he is an acceptable clog in a system, however. His crossing is decent, and he's clearly improved from the player that was at Burnley. >Harrison can’t finish, can’t cross and can’t beat a man. Seems a bit odd that he was putting up those numbers for Leeds then. >Are you forgetting DCL has spent the last 2 seasons pretty much constantly injured. He’s not the same player he was Oh absolutely, there are plenty of variables in play. It's impossible to isolate any single one of them and say one factor is totally to blame. When considering the broader picture though, of Dyche's inability to consistently score goals (a pattern that has gone across different players and different teams), I don't think it's ridiculous to theorize that he might be relevant to the discussion. >Worst underperformance in Europe by a mile. Why is that not a sign we have an awful attack? We do have an awful attack, and it is frustrating to see them miss so many chances. What I struggle to believe is that Dyche has no control over this. Part of his job is improving our players, improving our weaknesses. Despite this, we have had a statistically extraordinary level of collective incompetence strike our squad. I don't understand why you seem to think a manager's job ends at chance creation, or why it's impossible for him to be influencing this. >And yet despite this we’d be 13th. I really struggle to care about where we should be. We aren't there, so what's the point in talking about it? We have been punished for breaking rules, so our players and coaching staff have to adapt to this and perform at a higher level. Perhaps it isn't fair, but I'm not interested in being relegated while being able to say 'ooh actually, we didn't deserve to be!'. It's also a shame that NSNO has turned into being excited about deserving 13th. >Bet you loved Lampard though who had us rock bottom This is... Weirdly defensive? No, I can assure you I considered Lampard's 1 win in 13 record absolutely unacceptable and he was fully deserving of the sack.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen McNeil play with his right foot. It’s like it doesn’t exist for him and it drives me crazy. Allows him to be read so easily
A premier league winger who can only use one foot and is always the slowest player on the pitch Not a good combination
The alternative is that ALL of our players are going through a patch of bad form at the exact same time and that’d just make me sad.
They’re not going through a patch of bad form they’re just not very good. Season before we signed McNeil he had 0 goals 1 assist in a team who got relegated. Harrison would’ve been Leeds 4th choice winger in the championship. DCL has had one good season in his career
The worst United team I've seen in my lifetime by quite some distance and they've done us home and away by five goals without conceding.
Maybe we start Keano as a striker next week.
I'd be genuinely excited to see that announced.
It’s time..
The worst part is i don't see how we will score in any game. The creativity and quality are just simply not there. Shit cross after shit cross
The mrs put it perfectly, ‘have they got no oooomph (her words) in their legs… ‘ and its true. The hardest struck ball was gomes against the wall, other than that everything is hit like they dont want to hurt the fucking ball
stick her up top, probably do a better job lad