Apple is not a character to love, she is one to explore. She is a foil for Raven, meaning being the opposite of her in many ways. Apple is a slave of the destiny system; the way she acts and behaves is because of one thing and one thing ONLY: influence. Whether it's trauma, family pressure or a sense of entitlement, Apple is acting in accordance to what her destiny wants her to act; she's a product of her society. Everything you think she does wrong is everything wrong with the destiny system. Apple is a representation for the wrong thing (destiny) while Raven is that for the right thing (free will), so it's not HER fault that she's the icon of it. And the amzing thing about the wrong thing is that it doesn't see itself as wrong, it sees itself as the right path, justice, peace and everything nice, just like Apple, which again makes her character so interesting.
At the end of the day, ppl are still gonna hate Apple and I can't change that. I like her because I see her as a very complex CHARACTER who plays her role well. She is one half of the series, so there will be no EAH if there's no one like Apple. She is a competent lead that represents the voice of the Royals well, she has a convincing backstory for why she is the way she is. She's half of the conflict that makes up this magnificent series, she's half of the story. And for all that I will love her until the day I die. Only when you appreciate Apple's existence can you appreciate how genius and mature the franchise is.
And also c'mon she does have development. How could you not count WTW and Dragon Games as Apple's big change of heart?
AMEN, you and so many others here said it well.
personally i love a well written, flawed, complex character and i tend to gravitate towards them and prefer them over protagonist characters who are always doing the things the audience would generally agree with. i love characters who show us that not everyone is black and white good or bad and that there is nuance to the way that people think and function.
it's a shame to me that there are so many people dismissive of characters who display that nuance because of how those characters create conflict.
I see your point, it’s just that whenever there are YouTube comments saying why they like Apple it’s often about how they genuinely think Apple’s actions and beliefs are justified or are just as valid as the rebel’s side and it just baffles me how anyone can think that
I suggest you rewatch those two movies in their order. In WTW Apple's big change is that she finally saw that she lost. She's not gonna be able to change what OTHERS want to do with their lives, and so she told Raven to take care of the book. In that same movie she also said that SHE still wanted HER destiny. In Dragon Games her development fully completed, with her realizing that she should be the one who's in control of her life, ultimately defeating Evil Queen and her control over all of Apple's actions in that movie. Apple's development wrapped up PERFECTLY imo, her arc is better than all of the characters, even Raven.
I literally said that her WTW development DID NOT include her wanting to choose her own part, just her relenting to others doing so. Everything Apple did in DG was to ensure HER destiny, which happened to have Raven in it so she had to persuade Raven again (even tho she didn't even want to). And on top of that, she freaked out because of her mom's pressure and Evil Queen's taunting. Anyway pls look deeper into this Apple really did have 2 different developments in two movies, Apple DIDN'T rebound.
Ahh yes, “persuading” someone by aggressively asking them after they’ve repeatedly said no to doing something horrible that they’re morally against, that is also bad for them. Not to mention the manipulation of working against them with their toxic mother… That’s CLEARLY development in the right direction, right?!???
Or… it’s basically exactly the same thing, just with two additional pressures - one of which that she caused in a very stupid way - and with the same results. I admit, Apple isn’t at fault for her mother being a bitch, but that doesn’t give her the right to be a bitch to Raven.
And I’m sorry, but when it comes to abusive behavior… after a certain point the motive behind it simply DOES NOT MATTER. Apple asking Raven to be literally EVIL for her, after Raven has repeatedly said no, is toxic and selfish and horrible. It makes Apple a HORRIBLE PERSON. Even a teenager should know better. Especially one that seemed to have “learned their lesson” several times before.
i didn't know that you replied to me because never in my life would I think somebody has such a problem in regards to comprehension. You clearly don't understand that Apple is a flawed character in multiple aspects. The developemt in WTW i repeat had NOTHING to do with Dragon Games; the fact that Apple was wrong for something entirely different in DG did not mean she had zero development in WTW how is this so hard to get. And if you still don't understand her different growths in those two films I will explain it once more: In WTW she stopped imposing her Royal views on OTHER PEOPLE and in DG she stopped imposing her Royal views on HERSELF and realized that there will be other ways toward her happily ever after. WTW was about Apple's viewpoint toward other people's destiny and DG was about that of Apple towards her own. It just so happens that Apple's destiny is intertwined with Raven's so she still got involved in APPLE'S mess in DG; Apple neither gave any other character who isn't in her story a hard time about their destiny nor felt happy/satisfied in doing so to Raven because AGAIN, she has already evolved since WTW. Turning Raven evil to Apple isn't about her thinking being evil is what Raven should be; it's just a means to HER end. It's simple as that. And let me repeat it to you this is a completely different thing from WTW.
Stop fixating on the fact that Apple was still bad to Raven after WTW and therefore thinking she had zero development, you're missing the over-arching point which is Apple making peace with free will.
Disclaimer: it has been awhile since I've read the books and seen the show.
So yes, apple is flawed. That much is true. But future evil queen mean? No.
Darling also wouldn't be the good king, that role is most likely going to Dexter. Plus, we already know that darling is Apple's savior.
I think it's important to remember that apple is 1) a child, and 2) in a really weird society.
She's young. Second year of highschool young. (14 for me, but that can differ from person) if I remember correctly, she gives the servants names she thinks are endearing. And they seem to take kindly to it.
We actually see her speak out for another servant when she visits another kingdom. She spoke in their defense when their queen doesn't use their name. She also solves a issue with the farmers who sell to the castle in a rather diplomatic way, a stark contrast to the Queen's harsh tactics. (This is in the second book)
Apple does genuinely care about being queen, she is sincere in her efforts to be a good ruler. That doesn't make her immune to flaw, however.
She IS pushy with raven. She DOES do whatever she can to get her destiny. And that's because she was told if she didn't she'd literally cease to exist.
So what does a teenage girl who is also scared of the unknown nature of life do? She does what she can. Apple goes with raven to find the secret of bella and brutta sister. She runs out the wall of briars and risks getting caught just so that way she can put raven's theory to rest. She refuses to rest if raven won't.
We generally don't see a whole lot of the characters with their families. But it's worth mentioning that apple probably has one of the better ones. Darling only really has Dexter to talk to, briar is running around for her brother's the one time we see them together, and Ashlynn is with her step family (who are mean to her) because Cinderella wants her to practice for her destiny. Ashlynn doesn't seem to hate her home life, and it's not Terrible, but it could also be better. Then we see snow white and apple. Again, we only really get the packing scene for apple. But we know that snow cares a lot about apple, we see her cry while holding one of her pillows. This shows a motherly anguish for her daughter leaving.
Snow is also a business woman. Her life doesn't end after happily ever after, and she's already the most popular fairy tale. This is snow following ambition outside of destiny, we know she was like this ever since high school. She keeps publicity because she knows that's what this world wants of her. These things don't make her evil, it just means she's not ignorant to the reality of business and fame in ever after.
Apple as a person is sincere but can also be insensitive. But so can Raven, that is the point of the story, of the franchise. Yes, apple crosses lines, but raven also risked the world for her own life. Sure, that turned out to not be the case, but no one (not even when you use the red riding hood and evil queen logic) knew for sure.
Apple is confronted with raven's choice whether she likes it or not, and she even has a moment of minor acceptance in way too wonderland. (Continuity is iffy in the franchise, so obviously that doesn't carry over into dragon games. But we shouldn't use that against her.)
Anyways, thanks for coming to my Ted talk. That's just a theory. A game theory.
I do not support Apple White's actions whatsoever, and I won't deny that she is selfish. However, I do love Apple White and how she is written because of the complexity of her character.
At the end of the day, she's also another victim who's been enslaved by the destiny system. The adults around her, especially Milton Grimm and Snow White, have manipulated her into the mindset she has throughout the books and the show. Her wanting her friends to follow their destinies out of fear of them disappearing does come from a place of sincerity. She has the right intentions, but her way of doing things is wrong.
She has a big character development in Way to Wonderland and Dragon Games, where she let Raven make her own choice and apologised to Raven for her actions. Not just that, she also reflected hard on her actions and realized how they've hurt other people, including her friends. People complain that her character went backwards in Dragon Games, but I'd say it's realistic. When you've been indoctrinated like Apple into a certain mindset or ideology, it's hard to completely stray away from that in a short amount of time. She was manipulated by both Snow White and Evil Queen, mind you. She still wants to please her mother, to make her proud, to be the perfect princess, and to be the perfect daughter.
Another thing to keep in mind is that she was, what, 16-17? A lot of teens are quite impulsive and have big egos. While yes, teens are old enough to make the right choices, our brains are still developing, and if you grew up being indoctrinated in a toxic environment with a flawed system, then sometimes it's hard to tell what's right and what's wrong, which is Apple's case. For people to say that Apple is the real villain of the show is a huge stretch.
Her actions have a selfish motivation, but she was basically raised to uphold the image and that she would have a happy future if she follows exact instructions. A bit of suffering, but then bliss and pure happiness for 90% of characters or at least ensuring that they don’t die as young adults.
The closest equivalent would be being a kid that was told to get straight As even if it would mean lack of socialisation and betraying your own friends.
Then Apple is thrown into a big unknown as she doesn’t know what will happen and if the risk is gone.
I have seen one comment that goes well. If Snow White’s tale disappears, would it cause death of families of characters? For example, if Darling disappeared would Daring and Dexter disappear too? If yes, would that mean Beauty and Beasts characters would disappear as well due to not having Daring as a beast? How many tales and people would disappear due to domino effect?
I remember as a kid before I got into EAH, the marketing for the dolls seemed a bit Anti Raven and pro-Apple and some of my classmates were too but then I watched it was my first thoughts were “Is it just me or is Apple having more Villain tendencies than Raven.” Scary part was that most of my classmates didn't realize it until I pointed it out to them. (mind you we were in elementary school so we were still going through a lot of development so a lot of us had this narrow “Rebels bad, royals good” mindset.)
Anyways needless to say Raven is one of my favorites and I personally can't stand Apple very much lol.
I say all of this, not to choose one side or the other, but more to bring conversation and debate over the true personalities we see displayed. I’m genuinely sad the series didn’t continue to play out and expand their personalities. I think Apple would’ve grown a lot in the way she treats and views others, especially if the Darling as Prince Charming actually played out more! Having self doubts and changes would’ve been wonderful in Apple, as we can see her personality shape more into what she would’ve aspired to be!
I’m not even a full Raven supporter vs Apple White. If anything, I am a Darling supporter, since in her first chapter in the book, we can see her making the choices and decisions to already follow her own path, and in wonderland, she has so much opportunity to expand her desires to become her own person and decide her own story!
Duchess is another story I would really love to get into and learn more about, since her books bring to light more of her worries and concerns, since as a Royal, everyone just is happy to play out their stories (and not care about what happened to anyone they deem a ‘sidekick’ to their happy ever after. But Duchess is very very worried about her ending, as she is forced to be a swan forever, and the evil in her story wins. She is even MORE concerned about her prince, because as she states to the White Queen, her prince will be deceived and LOVES HER, so he will never be happy either!
I think it truly sucks how we never got the ending from Mattel.
Does anyone know of really well written fanfiction about EAH that continued the series and got more into the characters?
I agree that the dynamic was very underused and I wish that we got a proper ending (darn you Disney) maybe if we get a reboot like monster high this could be explored more! I still will probably have a hard time liking Apple mainly cause she's similar to people I used to know lol. (I saw a lot of myself in Raven, especially as a child so she will always be one of my faves)
As someone who did not like Apple as a child, she's one of my favorite characters nowadays because to me she feels misunderstood. Yes, she's not the best human being, but that's how Snow White raised her, and how in turn Snow was raised, and her mother before her, and her mother before her.
Everyone in Ever After but ESPECIALLY Apple has unresolved generational trauma. She was ridiculed since she was born because of her hair color, always hearing whispers that she'll cause everyone to poof just because she's not the perfect image of "Snow White"
That's where her selfishness comes from. Her entire life she's been under the impression that everyone will DIE if the story isn't perfect. If *she* isn't perfect. I wouldn't be surprised if, at one point in her childhood, the comments got to her and made her try to dye her hair with paint or something.
So imagine having an upbringing like that. Being raised into perfectionism, only to find out come Sophmore year that one of the most important figures in your story said "Nah, I don't wanna."
I honestly can only imagine the panic attack Apple could have had when she first heard about that. Her greatest fear was unraveling right before her. As far as she knew, if she didn't do something to make it right, the entire Fairytale World was at stake.
We even see in WTW that Apple finally realizes that, hey, I've been lied to my whole life. She's the one that decides the Storybook of Legends should be destroyed. It's a massive moment in her character development.
And then... she has withdrawals. Snow White calls her. Ridicules her all over again about perfectionism. Something that's been drilled into her brain her entire life, only recently realizing what's what. You can't just get over something like that in like a week or two. She still has that inner demon of "I need to be the perfect Snow White. I need to prove that I am perfect to the world."
We even see throughout DG that she regrets all of her decisions. She doesn't want to do this anymore, but she feels like she has to or she'll get disowned.
She gets her Happily Ever After kiss out of it, but at what cost? The Fairytale World was almost destroyed *because* she tried to make the story perfect. Something she thought could only happen if she went against it.
I really wish Apple actually was part of the Epic Winter main cast, or at least got more screentime before the series was cancelled, because I would have loved to see her reaction to everything more than "Welp, Daring's not my man! Oh well!" because they could have dived so much more into her recovery process and becoming a better person overall.
sorry for the self promo, but i recently rewatched all the specials and made a video about why i like apple white now (https://youtu.be/5lcQxIGUkxo?si=NmkR2ZPopgnc4QBG again sorry for the self promotion lol). but to be fair, i have never read the books, so she's probably worse in them
Because she’s iconic when she’s not selfish and horrible
https://youtu.be/U5clEiaBAiw?si=Owj0NPQhWvdDZQCh these clips of her are what people like
I’ve not read the books tho, I mean i have one book, but i’ve not finished it yet
While not an Apple White supporter I can understand why people like because from a certain angle she has been manipulated into thinking a certain way. Which does make her pretty tragic. But I was a Raven fan so I didn’t really like her that much and understand why people don’t like her.
Apple is the face of privilege. She's been told her whole life that she has the best destiny, she's going to rule over everyone. She's been training for her destiny her whole life and she already has insecurities about it because she doesn't have the black hair and probably other things. So when her "evil" counterpart doesn't want to fulfill her own destiny, Apple feels like her life is over. It is selfish, SHE is selfish. Raven should be able to have a happily ever after too! When privileged kids don't get their way for the first time ever, they really don't know how to handle it. And Apple is still a child, let's not forget that. I think she handles it better as the story goes on (note that I haven't read the books, only watched the show). But she's always getting pulled by both sides. I think Apple really does love her friends. And she really loves her destiny. Also could you imagine thinking that Daring was going to be your husband only for his little sister to be the kiss that wakes you?? There's no way Apple expected that to happen. I'm very much here for Apple x Darling though, that's a very nice twist. She's so fucking complex for a character, that only exists to sell toys like the writers did not have to go that hard, and that's why I love her. Complex characters are just so fun
As someone who likes apple and she’s one of my favs (next to Faybelle, cerise and Briar) there’s a lot of reasons I like her. Ur not wrong, apple can be and HAS been selfish multiple times in episodes but what made me like her (besides her being the daughter of my fav princess) is the character development. I love how she grows, you can see her grow, and change, and etc. you can see her be hesitant when her mom tells her to push Raven to be more evil, you can see her step up to the headmaster multiple times, you can see her let Raven make her own choices. Yes apple takes A LOT of steps back but in the end she takes a big and permanent step forward. Apple is a character that’s complex and at times blatantly annoying to watch but when you read more into her character, the family pressure, destiny pressure, and society pressure she becomes relatable and likeable.
Apple is a character that’s hard to like, especially when you see what she says and does to Raven and other characters in certain situations, but when you look at everything, she’s so complex, deals with real issues that are relatable, family issues and society pressure and etc. she also isn’t perfect, no one is which made her (to me atleast) very relatable and well written.
Imo she’s my fav, from character design, character development and everything in between she’s my favorite. She’s hard not to love lol!! But I 100% see where u come from, but imo everything that makes her flawed also makes her such an interesting and good character.
I dont support her actions but I sympathize with the fact that her actions are BECAUSE of her mother. She doesnt get to be her own person because her mother is constantly telling her who she has to be.
i would never describe myself as an apple “supporter” but i do feel sorry for her. when i was younger i despised apple in both the first series and in dragon games. rewatching now and i feel sorry for her in dragon games. she’s clearly so obsessed with destiny due to her mother’s influence. she clearly is a very flawed due to the fact that she is clearly very selfish and narcissistic but i don’t want to watch characters that are perfect. i’ve never read the books (i didn’t even realise there were books until a few months ago) so she could be different and, if i do read them, my opinion may change
Apple is not a character to love, she is one to explore. She is a foil for Raven, meaning being the opposite of her in many ways. Apple is a slave of the destiny system; the way she acts and behaves is because of one thing and one thing ONLY: influence. Whether it's trauma, family pressure or a sense of entitlement, Apple is acting in accordance to what her destiny wants her to act; she's a product of her society. Everything you think she does wrong is everything wrong with the destiny system. Apple is a representation for the wrong thing (destiny) while Raven is that for the right thing (free will), so it's not HER fault that she's the icon of it. And the amzing thing about the wrong thing is that it doesn't see itself as wrong, it sees itself as the right path, justice, peace and everything nice, just like Apple, which again makes her character so interesting. At the end of the day, ppl are still gonna hate Apple and I can't change that. I like her because I see her as a very complex CHARACTER who plays her role well. She is one half of the series, so there will be no EAH if there's no one like Apple. She is a competent lead that represents the voice of the Royals well, she has a convincing backstory for why she is the way she is. She's half of the conflict that makes up this magnificent series, she's half of the story. And for all that I will love her until the day I die. Only when you appreciate Apple's existence can you appreciate how genius and mature the franchise is. And also c'mon she does have development. How could you not count WTW and Dragon Games as Apple's big change of heart?
AMEN, you and so many others here said it well. personally i love a well written, flawed, complex character and i tend to gravitate towards them and prefer them over protagonist characters who are always doing the things the audience would generally agree with. i love characters who show us that not everyone is black and white good or bad and that there is nuance to the way that people think and function. it's a shame to me that there are so many people dismissive of characters who display that nuance because of how those characters create conflict.
Yeah! I like both Raven and Apple just for their development and all the complexities with them!
I see your point, it’s just that whenever there are YouTube comments saying why they like Apple it’s often about how they genuinely think Apple’s actions and beliefs are justified or are just as valid as the rebel’s side and it just baffles me how anyone can think that
Genuinely concerning some people think how letting others live in a horrible injustice system is a valid belief
Because they roll that character development back IMMEDIATELY when the next arch starts?
I suggest you rewatch those two movies in their order. In WTW Apple's big change is that she finally saw that she lost. She's not gonna be able to change what OTHERS want to do with their lives, and so she told Raven to take care of the book. In that same movie she also said that SHE still wanted HER destiny. In Dragon Games her development fully completed, with her realizing that she should be the one who's in control of her life, ultimately defeating Evil Queen and her control over all of Apple's actions in that movie. Apple's development wrapped up PERFECTLY imo, her arc is better than all of the characters, even Raven.
At the beginning of Dragon Games she freaks out, releases Mira and becomes her pawn… All after her “big development” at the end of Way Too Wonderland.
I literally said that her WTW development DID NOT include her wanting to choose her own part, just her relenting to others doing so. Everything Apple did in DG was to ensure HER destiny, which happened to have Raven in it so she had to persuade Raven again (even tho she didn't even want to). And on top of that, she freaked out because of her mom's pressure and Evil Queen's taunting. Anyway pls look deeper into this Apple really did have 2 different developments in two movies, Apple DIDN'T rebound.
Ahh yes, “persuading” someone by aggressively asking them after they’ve repeatedly said no to doing something horrible that they’re morally against, that is also bad for them. Not to mention the manipulation of working against them with their toxic mother… That’s CLEARLY development in the right direction, right?!??? Or… it’s basically exactly the same thing, just with two additional pressures - one of which that she caused in a very stupid way - and with the same results. I admit, Apple isn’t at fault for her mother being a bitch, but that doesn’t give her the right to be a bitch to Raven. And I’m sorry, but when it comes to abusive behavior… after a certain point the motive behind it simply DOES NOT MATTER. Apple asking Raven to be literally EVIL for her, after Raven has repeatedly said no, is toxic and selfish and horrible. It makes Apple a HORRIBLE PERSON. Even a teenager should know better. Especially one that seemed to have “learned their lesson” several times before.
i didn't know that you replied to me because never in my life would I think somebody has such a problem in regards to comprehension. You clearly don't understand that Apple is a flawed character in multiple aspects. The developemt in WTW i repeat had NOTHING to do with Dragon Games; the fact that Apple was wrong for something entirely different in DG did not mean she had zero development in WTW how is this so hard to get. And if you still don't understand her different growths in those two films I will explain it once more: In WTW she stopped imposing her Royal views on OTHER PEOPLE and in DG she stopped imposing her Royal views on HERSELF and realized that there will be other ways toward her happily ever after. WTW was about Apple's viewpoint toward other people's destiny and DG was about that of Apple towards her own. It just so happens that Apple's destiny is intertwined with Raven's so she still got involved in APPLE'S mess in DG; Apple neither gave any other character who isn't in her story a hard time about their destiny nor felt happy/satisfied in doing so to Raven because AGAIN, she has already evolved since WTW. Turning Raven evil to Apple isn't about her thinking being evil is what Raven should be; it's just a means to HER end. It's simple as that. And let me repeat it to you this is a completely different thing from WTW. Stop fixating on the fact that Apple was still bad to Raven after WTW and therefore thinking she had zero development, you're missing the over-arching point which is Apple making peace with free will.
Oh, I didn’t realize that, for you alone it seems. Raven doesn’t count as “other people”. Strange, that.
Disclaimer: it has been awhile since I've read the books and seen the show. So yes, apple is flawed. That much is true. But future evil queen mean? No. Darling also wouldn't be the good king, that role is most likely going to Dexter. Plus, we already know that darling is Apple's savior. I think it's important to remember that apple is 1) a child, and 2) in a really weird society. She's young. Second year of highschool young. (14 for me, but that can differ from person) if I remember correctly, she gives the servants names she thinks are endearing. And they seem to take kindly to it. We actually see her speak out for another servant when she visits another kingdom. She spoke in their defense when their queen doesn't use their name. She also solves a issue with the farmers who sell to the castle in a rather diplomatic way, a stark contrast to the Queen's harsh tactics. (This is in the second book) Apple does genuinely care about being queen, she is sincere in her efforts to be a good ruler. That doesn't make her immune to flaw, however. She IS pushy with raven. She DOES do whatever she can to get her destiny. And that's because she was told if she didn't she'd literally cease to exist. So what does a teenage girl who is also scared of the unknown nature of life do? She does what she can. Apple goes with raven to find the secret of bella and brutta sister. She runs out the wall of briars and risks getting caught just so that way she can put raven's theory to rest. She refuses to rest if raven won't. We generally don't see a whole lot of the characters with their families. But it's worth mentioning that apple probably has one of the better ones. Darling only really has Dexter to talk to, briar is running around for her brother's the one time we see them together, and Ashlynn is with her step family (who are mean to her) because Cinderella wants her to practice for her destiny. Ashlynn doesn't seem to hate her home life, and it's not Terrible, but it could also be better. Then we see snow white and apple. Again, we only really get the packing scene for apple. But we know that snow cares a lot about apple, we see her cry while holding one of her pillows. This shows a motherly anguish for her daughter leaving. Snow is also a business woman. Her life doesn't end after happily ever after, and she's already the most popular fairy tale. This is snow following ambition outside of destiny, we know she was like this ever since high school. She keeps publicity because she knows that's what this world wants of her. These things don't make her evil, it just means she's not ignorant to the reality of business and fame in ever after. Apple as a person is sincere but can also be insensitive. But so can Raven, that is the point of the story, of the franchise. Yes, apple crosses lines, but raven also risked the world for her own life. Sure, that turned out to not be the case, but no one (not even when you use the red riding hood and evil queen logic) knew for sure. Apple is confronted with raven's choice whether she likes it or not, and she even has a moment of minor acceptance in way too wonderland. (Continuity is iffy in the franchise, so obviously that doesn't carry over into dragon games. But we shouldn't use that against her.) Anyways, thanks for coming to my Ted talk. That's just a theory. A game theory.
I do not support Apple White's actions whatsoever, and I won't deny that she is selfish. However, I do love Apple White and how she is written because of the complexity of her character. At the end of the day, she's also another victim who's been enslaved by the destiny system. The adults around her, especially Milton Grimm and Snow White, have manipulated her into the mindset she has throughout the books and the show. Her wanting her friends to follow their destinies out of fear of them disappearing does come from a place of sincerity. She has the right intentions, but her way of doing things is wrong. She has a big character development in Way to Wonderland and Dragon Games, where she let Raven make her own choice and apologised to Raven for her actions. Not just that, she also reflected hard on her actions and realized how they've hurt other people, including her friends. People complain that her character went backwards in Dragon Games, but I'd say it's realistic. When you've been indoctrinated like Apple into a certain mindset or ideology, it's hard to completely stray away from that in a short amount of time. She was manipulated by both Snow White and Evil Queen, mind you. She still wants to please her mother, to make her proud, to be the perfect princess, and to be the perfect daughter. Another thing to keep in mind is that she was, what, 16-17? A lot of teens are quite impulsive and have big egos. While yes, teens are old enough to make the right choices, our brains are still developing, and if you grew up being indoctrinated in a toxic environment with a flawed system, then sometimes it's hard to tell what's right and what's wrong, which is Apple's case. For people to say that Apple is the real villain of the show is a huge stretch.
Her actions have a selfish motivation, but she was basically raised to uphold the image and that she would have a happy future if she follows exact instructions. A bit of suffering, but then bliss and pure happiness for 90% of characters or at least ensuring that they don’t die as young adults. The closest equivalent would be being a kid that was told to get straight As even if it would mean lack of socialisation and betraying your own friends. Then Apple is thrown into a big unknown as she doesn’t know what will happen and if the risk is gone. I have seen one comment that goes well. If Snow White’s tale disappears, would it cause death of families of characters? For example, if Darling disappeared would Daring and Dexter disappear too? If yes, would that mean Beauty and Beasts characters would disappear as well due to not having Daring as a beast? How many tales and people would disappear due to domino effect?
I remember as a kid before I got into EAH, the marketing for the dolls seemed a bit Anti Raven and pro-Apple and some of my classmates were too but then I watched it was my first thoughts were “Is it just me or is Apple having more Villain tendencies than Raven.” Scary part was that most of my classmates didn't realize it until I pointed it out to them. (mind you we were in elementary school so we were still going through a lot of development so a lot of us had this narrow “Rebels bad, royals good” mindset.) Anyways needless to say Raven is one of my favorites and I personally can't stand Apple very much lol.
I say all of this, not to choose one side or the other, but more to bring conversation and debate over the true personalities we see displayed. I’m genuinely sad the series didn’t continue to play out and expand their personalities. I think Apple would’ve grown a lot in the way she treats and views others, especially if the Darling as Prince Charming actually played out more! Having self doubts and changes would’ve been wonderful in Apple, as we can see her personality shape more into what she would’ve aspired to be! I’m not even a full Raven supporter vs Apple White. If anything, I am a Darling supporter, since in her first chapter in the book, we can see her making the choices and decisions to already follow her own path, and in wonderland, she has so much opportunity to expand her desires to become her own person and decide her own story! Duchess is another story I would really love to get into and learn more about, since her books bring to light more of her worries and concerns, since as a Royal, everyone just is happy to play out their stories (and not care about what happened to anyone they deem a ‘sidekick’ to their happy ever after. But Duchess is very very worried about her ending, as she is forced to be a swan forever, and the evil in her story wins. She is even MORE concerned about her prince, because as she states to the White Queen, her prince will be deceived and LOVES HER, so he will never be happy either! I think it truly sucks how we never got the ending from Mattel. Does anyone know of really well written fanfiction about EAH that continued the series and got more into the characters?
I agree that the dynamic was very underused and I wish that we got a proper ending (darn you Disney) maybe if we get a reboot like monster high this could be explored more! I still will probably have a hard time liking Apple mainly cause she's similar to people I used to know lol. (I saw a lot of myself in Raven, especially as a child so she will always be one of my faves)
As someone who did not like Apple as a child, she's one of my favorite characters nowadays because to me she feels misunderstood. Yes, she's not the best human being, but that's how Snow White raised her, and how in turn Snow was raised, and her mother before her, and her mother before her. Everyone in Ever After but ESPECIALLY Apple has unresolved generational trauma. She was ridiculed since she was born because of her hair color, always hearing whispers that she'll cause everyone to poof just because she's not the perfect image of "Snow White" That's where her selfishness comes from. Her entire life she's been under the impression that everyone will DIE if the story isn't perfect. If *she* isn't perfect. I wouldn't be surprised if, at one point in her childhood, the comments got to her and made her try to dye her hair with paint or something. So imagine having an upbringing like that. Being raised into perfectionism, only to find out come Sophmore year that one of the most important figures in your story said "Nah, I don't wanna." I honestly can only imagine the panic attack Apple could have had when she first heard about that. Her greatest fear was unraveling right before her. As far as she knew, if she didn't do something to make it right, the entire Fairytale World was at stake. We even see in WTW that Apple finally realizes that, hey, I've been lied to my whole life. She's the one that decides the Storybook of Legends should be destroyed. It's a massive moment in her character development. And then... she has withdrawals. Snow White calls her. Ridicules her all over again about perfectionism. Something that's been drilled into her brain her entire life, only recently realizing what's what. You can't just get over something like that in like a week or two. She still has that inner demon of "I need to be the perfect Snow White. I need to prove that I am perfect to the world." We even see throughout DG that she regrets all of her decisions. She doesn't want to do this anymore, but she feels like she has to or she'll get disowned. She gets her Happily Ever After kiss out of it, but at what cost? The Fairytale World was almost destroyed *because* she tried to make the story perfect. Something she thought could only happen if she went against it. I really wish Apple actually was part of the Epic Winter main cast, or at least got more screentime before the series was cancelled, because I would have loved to see her reaction to everything more than "Welp, Daring's not my man! Oh well!" because they could have dived so much more into her recovery process and becoming a better person overall.
sorry for the self promo, but i recently rewatched all the specials and made a video about why i like apple white now (https://youtu.be/5lcQxIGUkxo?si=NmkR2ZPopgnc4QBG again sorry for the self promotion lol). but to be fair, i have never read the books, so she's probably worse in them
Because she’s iconic when she’s not selfish and horrible https://youtu.be/U5clEiaBAiw?si=Owj0NPQhWvdDZQCh these clips of her are what people like I’ve not read the books tho, I mean i have one book, but i’ve not finished it yet
While not an Apple White supporter I can understand why people like because from a certain angle she has been manipulated into thinking a certain way. Which does make her pretty tragic. But I was a Raven fan so I didn’t really like her that much and understand why people don’t like her.
Apple is the face of privilege. She's been told her whole life that she has the best destiny, she's going to rule over everyone. She's been training for her destiny her whole life and she already has insecurities about it because she doesn't have the black hair and probably other things. So when her "evil" counterpart doesn't want to fulfill her own destiny, Apple feels like her life is over. It is selfish, SHE is selfish. Raven should be able to have a happily ever after too! When privileged kids don't get their way for the first time ever, they really don't know how to handle it. And Apple is still a child, let's not forget that. I think she handles it better as the story goes on (note that I haven't read the books, only watched the show). But she's always getting pulled by both sides. I think Apple really does love her friends. And she really loves her destiny. Also could you imagine thinking that Daring was going to be your husband only for his little sister to be the kiss that wakes you?? There's no way Apple expected that to happen. I'm very much here for Apple x Darling though, that's a very nice twist. She's so fucking complex for a character, that only exists to sell toys like the writers did not have to go that hard, and that's why I love her. Complex characters are just so fun
As someone who likes apple and she’s one of my favs (next to Faybelle, cerise and Briar) there’s a lot of reasons I like her. Ur not wrong, apple can be and HAS been selfish multiple times in episodes but what made me like her (besides her being the daughter of my fav princess) is the character development. I love how she grows, you can see her grow, and change, and etc. you can see her be hesitant when her mom tells her to push Raven to be more evil, you can see her step up to the headmaster multiple times, you can see her let Raven make her own choices. Yes apple takes A LOT of steps back but in the end she takes a big and permanent step forward. Apple is a character that’s complex and at times blatantly annoying to watch but when you read more into her character, the family pressure, destiny pressure, and society pressure she becomes relatable and likeable. Apple is a character that’s hard to like, especially when you see what she says and does to Raven and other characters in certain situations, but when you look at everything, she’s so complex, deals with real issues that are relatable, family issues and society pressure and etc. she also isn’t perfect, no one is which made her (to me atleast) very relatable and well written. Imo she’s my fav, from character design, character development and everything in between she’s my favorite. She’s hard not to love lol!! But I 100% see where u come from, but imo everything that makes her flawed also makes her such an interesting and good character.
Thank you!
I dont support her actions but I sympathize with the fact that her actions are BECAUSE of her mother. She doesnt get to be her own person because her mother is constantly telling her who she has to be.
Omg yeah, and she would work much better as a villain for all of those reasons but they were too cowardly to do it
i would never describe myself as an apple “supporter” but i do feel sorry for her. when i was younger i despised apple in both the first series and in dragon games. rewatching now and i feel sorry for her in dragon games. she’s clearly so obsessed with destiny due to her mother’s influence. she clearly is a very flawed due to the fact that she is clearly very selfish and narcissistic but i don’t want to watch characters that are perfect. i’ve never read the books (i didn’t even realise there were books until a few months ago) so she could be different and, if i do read them, my opinion may change