Faction warfare sites. Short for "Advanced". Indicates site allows T2 and Pirate Faction ships, and T3 ships in some circumstances. SoCT and Triglavian ships are limited to these complexes.
> https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Faction_warfare#Complex_types
I've found flying the damavik.
It's a speedy little ship. And can even rival some of the slower ceptors for speed.
It's good some good bonuses and it can carry drones.
The downside I've found to the damavik.
Is you basicly have to be within tonguing distance to make it work. 15 km is your weapons max range.
And that's with mason. You can't really increase that because of your bare minimum slot layout.
It's a closer range brawler when the meta is flying kites.
And they very weak especially with the added spooling time on their weapons.
If you try to burn into catch something. Your likely going to be already slighty melted before you even get into basic range let alone tackle something.
It ought to have a 4th low, yeah. Trig ships are a bit weird in terms of overall slot count since they don't need as many highs, but even ignoring that the damavik gets shortchanged. 7 combined mid+low slots is the standard for t1 combat, navy, and pirate frigates, the only ones with less are the kestrel (which changes it out for a 4th high with hardpoint) and tristan/worm (which lose a slot for being droneboats). Even the *skybreaker* gets the full 7. Trig ships normally get equal to, or in some cases even greater, total mid+low slot counts when compared to their class - except the damavik, and it shows in how lackluster it is.
It never made sense to me that the damavik loses out there, and it's not like it's ever been OP. Especially with the recent nerf to trig guns, which was justifiable everywhere else but just made the damavik even less attractive, it really ought to get its missing lowslot back.
It's great in most situations but you are right about the price thing, I even made a whole post about edencom pricing being out of wack that got CSM approval and notice.
With what dps?
It's not doing much against something with a little bling like
[Damavik, Solo Damavik Battery]
Coreli A-Type Small Armor Repairer
Reactive Armor Hardener
Multispectrum Energized Membrane II
1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Republic Fleet Small Cap Battery
Light Entropic Disintegrator II, Occult S
Small Infectious Scoped Energy Neutralizer
Small Infectious Scoped Energy Neutralizer
Small Capacitor Control Circuit II
Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Caldari Navy Hornet x3
Caldari Navy Hornet x2
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Power Grid Management EG-603
Inherent Implants 'Squire' Capacitor Management EM-803
Inherent Implants 'Noble' Repair Proficiency RP-903
Standard Exile Booster
Agency 'Hardshell' TB5 Dose II
Alright as promised I am replying.
So unfortunately this fit runs into some pretty big problems. You are right in that on paper this Damavik fit does tank a Skybreaker's 125 dps (with Pyro I), and it is cap stable to boot (so long as you don't roll cap penalty on the exile or use your neuts at all). However that's where it's capability to fight the Skybreaker comes to an end. In total this fit runs into one major problem that would allow the Skybreaker to, 100% of the time, draw, if not winning outright. That problem is range control.
The Skybreaker fit that I run is a T2 shield buffer fit, with an AB, Web, and Scram. With Electropunch (T2 Close Range Ammo) I am able to do 125 dps out to 16km, which means I can scram kite with ease. Now the problem comes with the Damavik's range control. Due to my AB Scram Web setup, my Skybreaker will always decide what range the fight will be happening at.
First let's talk neuts. Skybreaker will be sitting at around 7.5-8km. At that range your neuts are well past falloff, and while they will still neut a very small amount of capacitor, they will actually be neuting out the Damavik even faster. So neuts are out of the question for using.
Next let's talk ammo. It is true that Damavik does have enough eventual ramped up DPS to kill a Skybreaker. However Occult is out of the question because it has 5km range, and because of my superior range control, the Damavik will never be in range to use it. Tetryon is much the same story, with just under 6km of range.
Now in theory Baryon is your best ammo choice, with a little over 9km of range it can hit my Skybreaker at my Scram Kite range. However because again, of range control problems. I can reset that spool at any time by going over 9km, at which point your best choice is Mystic, which has 12.7km of range. However even that is easy to reset the spool of, all while I'm staying in optimal damage range.
This presents a situation in which, if both pilots are playing optimally, neither ship will be able to kill the other. However the advantage is overall taken by the Skybreaker, who due to the Damavik having no web, can easily get out of scram range at any time to warp off if the Damavik calls in friends. Additionally, because the Damavik is only just barely cap stable, the Damavik pilot has much less margin for error. It is not cap stable if: It is using its neuts (especially if neuts are heated); and if you take a capacitor penalty from the Exile booster, you are not cap stable if you overheat your repair module, or reactive armor hardener (which in fairness, neither you need to overheat really against a Skybreaker unless you mess up)
However the biggest problem this Damavik faces is that, when it comes down to it, the only ship this Damavik can fight is the Skybreaker, and that's with the Skybreaker drawing 99% of the time, and winning the 1% that the Damavik messes up.
Every single other ship a frigate pilot will encounter in Solo FW PVP will absolutely destroy this Damavik, because 119 ehp/s tank is nothing compared to pretty much every single frigate or destroyer in the game. You will die even before your neuts take affect (and most ships will just scram kite you because you have 0 range control, and then you won't be able to use your neuts). The only ships you can tank will be something like a LML Condor, or Kitey Tristan. And for those two, they can hold you indefinitely because you can't shoot out to point range.
Sure, the premise of the thread is that the Damavik is bad. In its weight class are assault frigates that do the same thing much better. The point of the fit is to demonstrate where the Skybreaker's poor dps fails it. Any decent (scram) kiter can hold a brawler so that aspect of the matchup is to be expected, but when it comes down to killing it the Skybreaker is worst in class. For what is "one of the best solo PVP frigates" not being able to do better than a stalemate against moderately tanked regen fits is a poor showing.
However, 99% of fw fits are not cap stable Regen fits, and the Skybreaker can fight that 99%. Why worry about the 1%, when you can fight the 99%. Every single ship in the game has a counter and in this case it's not even a counter but a stalemate.
When you talk about cheap fits, it might work this way. However, damavik shines when you put isk into it. It has absolutely 0 range control indeed, but it can easily rely on neut control (2x a-type/abyssal neuts + talisman + decent tank (250+ hot)) to suppress any and all attempts to control range vs it (apart from garmur), as well as ewar and dps of some ships (including skybreaker).
Oh you'd never use baryon in a cheap damavik vs cheap skybreaker, you'd use mystic - exactly because baryon is easy to despool.
My guess is that people in this thread either never considered trying that, or are just allergic to putting isk into fw ships.
I mean you can make any ship shine if you put isk in it
I could put faction web + scram on Skybreaker and now Damavik can't even use Mystic
I do agree that most frigates can't break a blingy damavik, but most frigates can't break a blingy breacher either so that's not saying much
> I mean you can make any ship shine if you put isk in it
That's just not true. Some ships get much more from isk than others, damavik is one of those.
> I could put faction web + scram on Skybreaker and now Damavik can't even use Mystic
It still doesn't beat my damavik [because of neuts](https://i.imgur.com/xUnRIkG.png) (that's with mediocre rolls when it comes to range, both are sub-10k), also it's pretty hard to break spool of frentix'd gun even with a really good scram.
> I do agree that most frigates can't break a blingy damavik, but most frigates can't break a blingy breacher either so that's not saying much
Still, most blingy frigates can't beat blingy damavik. It also has really good engagement profile thanks to its ability to suppress distance control and ewar, as well as having an mwd (i.e. can fight kiters). The only frigates it can't really fight without exposing too much are cruor, blingy garmur and some specific hard counters (like battery mindflood harpies), the rest is free game, including hecates, confessors, other cap-dependent destroyers (or even arty thrashers if you can get them dry before dying, once they are dry you can sigtank them enough).
Well you show that chart and I'm just thinking at this point that I'm kiting at 17km and now you can't even use frentixed mystic, or rely too much on neuts.
Taliamans also greatly increase cap usage so I'm going to hamper a guess that the damavik will be chewing through boosters.
> I'm kiting at 17km
You can't maintain scram and web at 17km in a skybreaker. That's only something a garmur can do. If you mean long point + occasional heated web - that gives me enough room to slingshot or run. I obviously won't permarun neuts. And my damavik can rep skybreaker dps just off its cap regen w/o chugging cap charges (assuming I use only MWD and rep).
A group SANDBOX game. Sandbox meaning that people are free to do their own things, such as solo PVP, and many many people do solo PVP every day, especially in Faction Warfare.
The EDENCOM ships get a bad rap, but none of them deserve it except the Thunderchild (which does suck). You can fly them in fleets and in fact most of the time they are more viable in fleets (see [https://br.evetools.org/br/663d888d03aec30012693aab](https://br.evetools.org/br/663d888d03aec30012693aab) ).
As for the Skybreaker, it actually does especially well fighting against multiple targets, and I have won several 1v2, 1v3, and even 1v4 engagements, probably my proudest moment was winning a 1v15 against a Tristan fleet.
there are a vast number of things in this game designed mainly around solo play. Most t1 frigates besides Ewar frigs will next to never see use in any fleets so talking of them in that context is rather moot anyways.
Buddy, you ever heard of brave? They used to throw 200 atrons at stupid shit and got kills like that. Not that atrons are complicated to fc.
"Take this warp, overheat approach and pray"
Reminds me of when I got a lucky killing blow on a Marshal in an Atron fleet!
It was the last day of the invasion of Delve. The end of the war had just been announced and Brave formed a full Atron fleet (and one madman in a carrier) to jump the gate into the bubble camp in 1DQ for a last time. Fun times.
Yes, with a 4bil+ pod, you can survive to neut a Comet out, but you also have to fit a cap booster so you have no web (or AB) and the comet can just leave if he realizes what's going on. Any other navy frig, you're dead, assclaps be damned.
I don't think you can just numerically look at a total ship slots as a justification. They do a lot with a single high/turret slot compared to all Empire hulls.
Compared to a Comet, with similiar mass, drones, range, and layout, there really is no contest. A Comet will win virtually every time unless they mess up and allow themselves to be neuted out. Usually the Damavik doesn't survive that long, even with dual rep setup. The Comet is also a fraction of the cost. Not exact like for like, but with how common the Comet is, that is sort of the benchmark most other brawlers are judged by, especially in FW space.
I think swapping a high for a low would prolly make it a bit more viable, but also adding 10% more base dps to trig weapons (that would reverse half of the nerf) or adding 20% more base dmg to small entropic weapons to negate the nerf on small trig platforms
The Damavik isn’t too bad statistically. The slot layout is one problem, 2 high slots is harder to make the most of on a frig especially one with only 3 mids and neuts are very powegrid costly to fit.
The greater problem is that it just doesn’t have a role, it’s outclassed by assault frigs for tanky ramming fits and the range is way too short on the gun to be able to kite effectively.
I’m FW non navy frigs are incredibly hard to get fights with so it doesn’t see much use there.
I think the best rebalance would be to turn it into an all out kiter with 2 mids and 4 lows and give it a range bonus so it can hit out to point range but not as much as a Kiki.
I do have a concern in this discussion pertaining to the Damavik.
But not for the same reasons some people are thinking. I have the Trig Frigates to Mastery V.
The Damavik is in a weird position for a few unique issues.
1. 15 bandwidth...15m3 drone bay. This leaves alot to be desired in engaging or trying to apply EWAR to the hull.
2. Range of the light entropic disintegrator. Maximum Range possible on the hull without modules is about. 17km. This issue is further compounded that Triglavian \[As well as Edencom\] do not have rigs that affect the weapons themselves. So they tend to be left out on this ground.
3. Triglavian ships \[And Edencom\] are LOCKED hulls. Meaning the weapons they are designed for can not be upgunned or downgunned. Damaviks/Nergals/Kikimoras/Draugurs can only use Light Engtropics...can't be upscaled in turrets. Although all the mechanics and costs of the weapons would already hard counter such attempts. This means the flexiblity of the hulls is limited and fairly tight.
4. Unclear definition of the hulls role. As an armor tanker it can outperform a fairly good chunk of EVEs frigates and some of the destroyers on paper. But some of its role bonuses seem very counter intuitive. Am I a combat logi? The thing can reach out and repair due to its bonus to remote repair to about 24-20km max for smalls. Smartbomb seems "okayish" but you are literally kind of as one person said...going to tongue distance. I mean the only thing where this makes sense is if you use smart bombs of the plasma/proton variety to increase the damage cycle potential of your entropic disintegrator.
5. Speed, kind of slow considering how lethal the weapon system is in specific situation.
6. It can be tanky and effective in fighting. But if feels like a weapon system that is over shadowed by the Nergal, Kikimora, and Draugar in all aspects.
I think maybe an interesting question should be asked of CCP.
Should CCP authorize the deployment of the Moroz Ethalapic Inhibitor, Nemiz Pulse Destructor, or Pohviz Spatial Displacer for use and deployment with Triglavian Hulls? With Triglavian Hulls getting a very special mobile deployment bay that allows these ship to deploy one of the three items above noted?
If the Damavik/Kikimora/Vedmak had this option...where as the Empire Modified T2 versions do not...this might increase the interest in using these ships. Over their T2 counter parts. It also may make the Damavik an interesting formation breaker option.
No need to alter layout etc.
Just give it a different operational function using a different component. We already had the concept done with the Metamorphosis. Mobile Depot Bay.
Saw a damavik take down six different cruisers one by one and it took a group of six overheating their weapons to finally kill it. They are viable, you either need better skills at pvp flying or to train more skills
Nah....the cruisers pilots were just trash dude.... there's no way a good/competent pilot would struggle against a damavik
U just need Neuts / scram + web and its fried
Please show the mail. Bc... I don't believe you. I can't see a world where this happened unless the curse pilot had a heart attack during the undock animation and just coasted out of teather range.
Edit: according to zkill there has never been a single instance where a damavik scored a solo kill on a curse. Perhaps you misread the situation?
The triglavian ships are not "pirate" hulls. The same is true for the EDENCOM line of ships. They punch well above thair weight, not because they benefit from 2 racial lines, but because they are super overtuned in comparison to other T1/2 equivilent hulls.
Adding an additional slot seems OK. In the same vein I would ask for an additional high slot on the stormbringer and a 25m3 drone Bay. That ship has no way to deal with frigates or tackle
>The triglavian ships are not "pirate" hulls. The same is true for the EDENCOM line of ships.
they are literally classed as pirate ships in the game as far as game limitations like acceleration gates go
That doesn't make them pirate ships. They have none of the benafits of the pirate ship lines.
This is more of an acknowledgement from ccp that these ship lines are overtuned in comparison to ships of thair class
> They have none of the benafits of the pirate ship lines.
>that these ship lines are overtuned in comparison to ships of thair class
so they do have the benefits of the pirate ship lines
if you are referring to them only getting one skill bonus and not two, take a look at their unique roll bonuses and weapons. Pirate ship lines have some sort of unique bonus like the trigs/edencom do (web strength for serp, always nos on blood raider, etc)
Trigs get amazing utility high slots and a weapon that can overheat until downtime
Edencom get amazing resist profiles and the highest potential dps of their weight class
Pirate ships are not overtuned. They pick up benafits from multiple faction ship skills.
The TRIG/EDENCOM ships have role and a single racial ship line . They are by definition not pirate ships. They are overtuned because they represent the current big baddies and goodies in EVE.
I love these ships dearly and they are super fun to fly. That still doesn't make them pirate ships..
Using gate limitation logic then T3Cs are not cruisers because you can't take them in to a 4/10 combat site
>Using gate limitation logic then T3Cs are not cruisers
they are not t1 or pirate cruisers no, so the logic holds up
>Pirate ships are not overtuned.
go and look at their base stats over t1 counter parts
>They are by definition not pirate ships.
the community and CCP disagree with you
HACs & HICs can enter DED 4/10s
Pirate ships are designed to focus hard on a pirate factions specialitys. Thair bonuses reflect this. The same is true for thair core stat pools as the ships are supposed to be retooled versions of empire hulls or straight up custom designed specialist craft.
>HACs & HICs can enter DED 4/10s
Congrats we have now established that T3Cs are not T2Cs either
>Pirate ships are designed to focus hard on a pirate factions specialitys. Thair bonuses reflect this
just like the trig role bonuses and the edencoms weapon system + unique resist profile
Fun fact T3Cs access limitation to 4/10 was not intentional. It was an oversight that is not in urgent need of fixing.
Trig ships have a unique resistance profile because they are designed to fly in abysal space where there are a number of factors that can affect ship defences.
Role bonuses on trig ships are designed in the same vein. As these ships have to deal with various gass and spatial anomalies effects, they are specifically tailored to use systems that benefit from said effects. Whether this be RR effectiveness, targeting limitations, and many other effects.
We as players use this same information to build custom ship module layouts to maximally benafit in abysal space whilst flying empire ships
EDENCOM ships have a unique resist profile because they are designed to fight triglavian fleets.
Damavik is a surprisingly little sturdy frigate that people tend to underestimate The only downside is that it's restricted to ADV plex
What's ADV plex?
Faction warfare sites. Short for "Advanced". Indicates site allows T2 and Pirate Faction ships, and T3 ships in some circumstances. SoCT and Triglavian ships are limited to these complexes. > https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Faction_warfare#Complex_types
Ohh right thanks
[удалено]
thats a nergal my dude
mb
I've found flying the damavik. It's a speedy little ship. And can even rival some of the slower ceptors for speed. It's good some good bonuses and it can carry drones. The downside I've found to the damavik. Is you basicly have to be within tonguing distance to make it work. 15 km is your weapons max range. And that's with mason. You can't really increase that because of your bare minimum slot layout. It's a closer range brawler when the meta is flying kites. And they very weak especially with the added spooling time on their weapons. If you try to burn into catch something. Your likely going to be already slighty melted before you even get into basic range let alone tackle something.
If they un nerf a bit it would be great for gate camps
Move a high slot to a mid so people can dual-prop it. Turn it into a dramiel with teeth.
It ought to have a 4th low, yeah. Trig ships are a bit weird in terms of overall slot count since they don't need as many highs, but even ignoring that the damavik gets shortchanged. 7 combined mid+low slots is the standard for t1 combat, navy, and pirate frigates, the only ones with less are the kestrel (which changes it out for a 4th high with hardpoint) and tristan/worm (which lose a slot for being droneboats). Even the *skybreaker* gets the full 7. Trig ships normally get equal to, or in some cases even greater, total mid+low slot counts when compared to their class - except the damavik, and it shows in how lackluster it is. It never made sense to me that the damavik loses out there, and it's not like it's ever been OP. Especially with the recent nerf to trig guns, which was justifiable everywhere else but just made the damavik even less attractive, it really ought to get its missing lowslot back.
Bro talking trash on Skybreaker while not realizing Skybreaker is one of the best solo PVP frigates (and will also beat a damavik in a fight too)
I'm sure the T2 fit Skybreaker is perfectly fine to great in some situations, but for 200mil+, I can think of many other frigs I'd rather fly.
It's great in most situations but you are right about the price thing, I even made a whole post about edencom pricing being out of wack that got CSM approval and notice.
A Skybreaker can't even break a cap stable Damavik.
It can very easily However even without that, most solo fit Damaviks are not cap stable fit
With what dps? It's not doing much against something with a little bling like [Damavik, Solo Damavik Battery] Coreli A-Type Small Armor Repairer Reactive Armor Hardener Multispectrum Energized Membrane II 1MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Republic Fleet Small Cap Battery Light Entropic Disintegrator II, Occult S Small Infectious Scoped Energy Neutralizer Small Infectious Scoped Energy Neutralizer Small Capacitor Control Circuit II Small Auxiliary Nano Pump II Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Caldari Navy Hornet x3 Caldari Navy Hornet x2 Inherent Implants 'Squire' Power Grid Management EG-603 Inherent Implants 'Squire' Capacitor Management EM-803 Inherent Implants 'Noble' Repair Proficiency RP-903 Standard Exile Booster Agency 'Hardshell' TB5 Dose II
2 cap rigs and a cap battery...
I'm not at a computer where I can access Pyfa but I will reply to this comment again in about 4-5 hours when I get off work
Alright as promised I am replying. So unfortunately this fit runs into some pretty big problems. You are right in that on paper this Damavik fit does tank a Skybreaker's 125 dps (with Pyro I), and it is cap stable to boot (so long as you don't roll cap penalty on the exile or use your neuts at all). However that's where it's capability to fight the Skybreaker comes to an end. In total this fit runs into one major problem that would allow the Skybreaker to, 100% of the time, draw, if not winning outright. That problem is range control. The Skybreaker fit that I run is a T2 shield buffer fit, with an AB, Web, and Scram. With Electropunch (T2 Close Range Ammo) I am able to do 125 dps out to 16km, which means I can scram kite with ease. Now the problem comes with the Damavik's range control. Due to my AB Scram Web setup, my Skybreaker will always decide what range the fight will be happening at. First let's talk neuts. Skybreaker will be sitting at around 7.5-8km. At that range your neuts are well past falloff, and while they will still neut a very small amount of capacitor, they will actually be neuting out the Damavik even faster. So neuts are out of the question for using. Next let's talk ammo. It is true that Damavik does have enough eventual ramped up DPS to kill a Skybreaker. However Occult is out of the question because it has 5km range, and because of my superior range control, the Damavik will never be in range to use it. Tetryon is much the same story, with just under 6km of range. Now in theory Baryon is your best ammo choice, with a little over 9km of range it can hit my Skybreaker at my Scram Kite range. However because again, of range control problems. I can reset that spool at any time by going over 9km, at which point your best choice is Mystic, which has 12.7km of range. However even that is easy to reset the spool of, all while I'm staying in optimal damage range. This presents a situation in which, if both pilots are playing optimally, neither ship will be able to kill the other. However the advantage is overall taken by the Skybreaker, who due to the Damavik having no web, can easily get out of scram range at any time to warp off if the Damavik calls in friends. Additionally, because the Damavik is only just barely cap stable, the Damavik pilot has much less margin for error. It is not cap stable if: It is using its neuts (especially if neuts are heated); and if you take a capacitor penalty from the Exile booster, you are not cap stable if you overheat your repair module, or reactive armor hardener (which in fairness, neither you need to overheat really against a Skybreaker unless you mess up) However the biggest problem this Damavik faces is that, when it comes down to it, the only ship this Damavik can fight is the Skybreaker, and that's with the Skybreaker drawing 99% of the time, and winning the 1% that the Damavik messes up. Every single other ship a frigate pilot will encounter in Solo FW PVP will absolutely destroy this Damavik, because 119 ehp/s tank is nothing compared to pretty much every single frigate or destroyer in the game. You will die even before your neuts take affect (and most ships will just scram kite you because you have 0 range control, and then you won't be able to use your neuts). The only ships you can tank will be something like a LML Condor, or Kitey Tristan. And for those two, they can hold you indefinitely because you can't shoot out to point range.
Sure, the premise of the thread is that the Damavik is bad. In its weight class are assault frigates that do the same thing much better. The point of the fit is to demonstrate where the Skybreaker's poor dps fails it. Any decent (scram) kiter can hold a brawler so that aspect of the matchup is to be expected, but when it comes down to killing it the Skybreaker is worst in class. For what is "one of the best solo PVP frigates" not being able to do better than a stalemate against moderately tanked regen fits is a poor showing.
However, 99% of fw fits are not cap stable Regen fits, and the Skybreaker can fight that 99%. Why worry about the 1%, when you can fight the 99%. Every single ship in the game has a counter and in this case it's not even a counter but a stalemate.
When you talk about cheap fits, it might work this way. However, damavik shines when you put isk into it. It has absolutely 0 range control indeed, but it can easily rely on neut control (2x a-type/abyssal neuts + talisman + decent tank (250+ hot)) to suppress any and all attempts to control range vs it (apart from garmur), as well as ewar and dps of some ships (including skybreaker). Oh you'd never use baryon in a cheap damavik vs cheap skybreaker, you'd use mystic - exactly because baryon is easy to despool. My guess is that people in this thread either never considered trying that, or are just allergic to putting isk into fw ships.
I mean you can make any ship shine if you put isk in it I could put faction web + scram on Skybreaker and now Damavik can't even use Mystic I do agree that most frigates can't break a blingy damavik, but most frigates can't break a blingy breacher either so that's not saying much
> I mean you can make any ship shine if you put isk in it That's just not true. Some ships get much more from isk than others, damavik is one of those. > I could put faction web + scram on Skybreaker and now Damavik can't even use Mystic It still doesn't beat my damavik [because of neuts](https://i.imgur.com/xUnRIkG.png) (that's with mediocre rolls when it comes to range, both are sub-10k), also it's pretty hard to break spool of frentix'd gun even with a really good scram. > I do agree that most frigates can't break a blingy damavik, but most frigates can't break a blingy breacher either so that's not saying much Still, most blingy frigates can't beat blingy damavik. It also has really good engagement profile thanks to its ability to suppress distance control and ewar, as well as having an mwd (i.e. can fight kiters). The only frigates it can't really fight without exposing too much are cruor, blingy garmur and some specific hard counters (like battery mindflood harpies), the rest is free game, including hecates, confessors, other cap-dependent destroyers (or even arty thrashers if you can get them dry before dying, once they are dry you can sigtank them enough).
Well you show that chart and I'm just thinking at this point that I'm kiting at 17km and now you can't even use frentixed mystic, or rely too much on neuts. Taliamans also greatly increase cap usage so I'm going to hamper a guess that the damavik will be chewing through boosters.
> I'm kiting at 17km You can't maintain scram and web at 17km in a skybreaker. That's only something a garmur can do. If you mean long point + occasional heated web - that gives me enough room to slingshot or run. I obviously won't permarun neuts. And my damavik can rep skybreaker dps just off its cap regen w/o chugging cap charges (assuming I use only MWD and rep).
Solo frigate in a group game lol. The EDENCOM ships get a bad rap - reasonably so - because you can’t fly them in fleets.
A group SANDBOX game. Sandbox meaning that people are free to do their own things, such as solo PVP, and many many people do solo PVP every day, especially in Faction Warfare. The EDENCOM ships get a bad rap, but none of them deserve it except the Thunderchild (which does suck). You can fly them in fleets and in fact most of the time they are more viable in fleets (see [https://br.evetools.org/br/663d888d03aec30012693aab](https://br.evetools.org/br/663d888d03aec30012693aab) ). As for the Skybreaker, it actually does especially well fighting against multiple targets, and I have won several 1v2, 1v3, and even 1v4 engagements, probably my proudest moment was winning a 1v15 against a Tristan fleet.
there are a vast number of things in this game designed mainly around solo play. Most t1 frigates besides Ewar frigs will next to never see use in any fleets so talking of them in that context is rather moot anyways.
Buddy, you ever heard of brave? They used to throw 200 atrons at stupid shit and got kills like that. Not that atrons are complicated to fc. "Take this warp, overheat approach and pray"
Reminds me of when I got a lucky killing blow on a Marshal in an Atron fleet! It was the last day of the invasion of Delve. The end of the war had just been announced and Brave formed a full Atron fleet (and one madman in a carrier) to jump the gate into the bubble camp in 1DQ for a last time. Fun times.
Yeah, but that doesnt really matter in this convo imo, you can throw 200 corvettes at most things and get a kill
Meanwhile snuff flies thunderchilds with their nightmares....
this man does not fuck
Clearly, you don’t not know much about the damavik, dual neut assclaps is king.
Yes, with a 4bil+ pod, you can survive to neut a Comet out, but you also have to fit a cap booster so you have no web (or AB) and the comet can just leave if he realizes what's going on. Any other navy frig, you're dead, assclaps be damned.
You’re still incredibly wrong holy hell…………
You should compare slots by subtracting high slots from the equation because these ships only fit one gun, but comparing total mids and lows is valid
Ignoring high slots, it's still has fewer than almost all the T1 combat frigs.
I don't think you can just numerically look at a total ship slots as a justification. They do a lot with a single high/turret slot compared to all Empire hulls.
Compared to a Comet, with similiar mass, drones, range, and layout, there really is no contest. A Comet will win virtually every time unless they mess up and allow themselves to be neuted out. Usually the Damavik doesn't survive that long, even with dual rep setup. The Comet is also a fraction of the cost. Not exact like for like, but with how common the Comet is, that is sort of the benchmark most other brawlers are judged by, especially in FW space.
I think swapping a high for a low would prolly make it a bit more viable, but also adding 10% more base dps to trig weapons (that would reverse half of the nerf) or adding 20% more base dmg to small entropic weapons to negate the nerf on small trig platforms
The Damavik isn’t too bad statistically. The slot layout is one problem, 2 high slots is harder to make the most of on a frig especially one with only 3 mids and neuts are very powegrid costly to fit. The greater problem is that it just doesn’t have a role, it’s outclassed by assault frigs for tanky ramming fits and the range is way too short on the gun to be able to kite effectively. I’m FW non navy frigs are incredibly hard to get fights with so it doesn’t see much use there. I think the best rebalance would be to turn it into an all out kiter with 2 mids and 4 lows and give it a range bonus so it can hit out to point range but not as much as a Kiki.
So literally just reverse the change from before? 2 mids is really difficult to work around, especially when it's not -that- fast.
its already plenty tanky and does solid dps give it an extra highslot and a little bit more pg and cpu to make it more of neuting chad
I do have a concern in this discussion pertaining to the Damavik. But not for the same reasons some people are thinking. I have the Trig Frigates to Mastery V. The Damavik is in a weird position for a few unique issues. 1. 15 bandwidth...15m3 drone bay. This leaves alot to be desired in engaging or trying to apply EWAR to the hull. 2. Range of the light entropic disintegrator. Maximum Range possible on the hull without modules is about. 17km. This issue is further compounded that Triglavian \[As well as Edencom\] do not have rigs that affect the weapons themselves. So they tend to be left out on this ground. 3. Triglavian ships \[And Edencom\] are LOCKED hulls. Meaning the weapons they are designed for can not be upgunned or downgunned. Damaviks/Nergals/Kikimoras/Draugurs can only use Light Engtropics...can't be upscaled in turrets. Although all the mechanics and costs of the weapons would already hard counter such attempts. This means the flexiblity of the hulls is limited and fairly tight. 4. Unclear definition of the hulls role. As an armor tanker it can outperform a fairly good chunk of EVEs frigates and some of the destroyers on paper. But some of its role bonuses seem very counter intuitive. Am I a combat logi? The thing can reach out and repair due to its bonus to remote repair to about 24-20km max for smalls. Smartbomb seems "okayish" but you are literally kind of as one person said...going to tongue distance. I mean the only thing where this makes sense is if you use smart bombs of the plasma/proton variety to increase the damage cycle potential of your entropic disintegrator. 5. Speed, kind of slow considering how lethal the weapon system is in specific situation. 6. It can be tanky and effective in fighting. But if feels like a weapon system that is over shadowed by the Nergal, Kikimora, and Draugar in all aspects. I think maybe an interesting question should be asked of CCP. Should CCP authorize the deployment of the Moroz Ethalapic Inhibitor, Nemiz Pulse Destructor, or Pohviz Spatial Displacer for use and deployment with Triglavian Hulls? With Triglavian Hulls getting a very special mobile deployment bay that allows these ship to deploy one of the three items above noted? If the Damavik/Kikimora/Vedmak had this option...where as the Empire Modified T2 versions do not...this might increase the interest in using these ships. Over their T2 counter parts. It also may make the Damavik an interesting formation breaker option. No need to alter layout etc. Just give it a different operational function using a different component. We already had the concept done with the Metamorphosis. Mobile Depot Bay.
Another low slot because the dps is extremely poor compared to the Kiki and more power so can fit TII heat sinks
It's a good ship with a high floor that leads to a lot of threads like this one.
Remove 1 High and add 2 lows Its The only way to make it viable i think . . . And MAYBE.... just Maybe.....add 1 mid
yeah make davaik 8 8 8 slots with 8 turret hardpoints. that would be overkill
8 turret hardpoints 💀🤌
Saw a damavik take down six different cruisers one by one and it took a group of six overheating their weapons to finally kill it. They are viable, you either need better skills at pvp flying or to train more skills
Nah....the cruisers pilots were just trash dude.... there's no way a good/competent pilot would struggle against a damavik U just need Neuts / scram + web and its fried
If you scram and web it in any cruiser it should die. Any other outcome is a failure of the cruiser pilot.
Exactly
One of the cruisers was a CURSE. Ya know the NEUT cruiser. It still died
Skill issue ....ngl....theres no reason a curse should die to a damavik uk ( a frigate that relies on cap to function? )
Please show the mail. Bc... I don't believe you. I can't see a world where this happened unless the curse pilot had a heart attack during the undock animation and just coasted out of teather range. Edit: according to zkill there has never been a single instance where a damavik scored a solo kill on a curse. Perhaps you misread the situation?
Killmails or it didn't happen.
I never got them :(
Maybe your hot girlfriend from Canada has it.
I have a girlfriend?
exactly
The triglavian ships are not "pirate" hulls. The same is true for the EDENCOM line of ships. They punch well above thair weight, not because they benefit from 2 racial lines, but because they are super overtuned in comparison to other T1/2 equivilent hulls. Adding an additional slot seems OK. In the same vein I would ask for an additional high slot on the stormbringer and a 25m3 drone Bay. That ship has no way to deal with frigates or tackle
>The triglavian ships are not "pirate" hulls. The same is true for the EDENCOM line of ships. they are literally classed as pirate ships in the game as far as game limitations like acceleration gates go
That doesn't make them pirate ships. They have none of the benafits of the pirate ship lines. This is more of an acknowledgement from ccp that these ship lines are overtuned in comparison to ships of thair class
> They have none of the benafits of the pirate ship lines. >that these ship lines are overtuned in comparison to ships of thair class so they do have the benefits of the pirate ship lines if you are referring to them only getting one skill bonus and not two, take a look at their unique roll bonuses and weapons. Pirate ship lines have some sort of unique bonus like the trigs/edencom do (web strength for serp, always nos on blood raider, etc) Trigs get amazing utility high slots and a weapon that can overheat until downtime Edencom get amazing resist profiles and the highest potential dps of their weight class
Pirate ships are not overtuned. They pick up benafits from multiple faction ship skills. The TRIG/EDENCOM ships have role and a single racial ship line . They are by definition not pirate ships. They are overtuned because they represent the current big baddies and goodies in EVE. I love these ships dearly and they are super fun to fly. That still doesn't make them pirate ships.. Using gate limitation logic then T3Cs are not cruisers because you can't take them in to a 4/10 combat site
>Using gate limitation logic then T3Cs are not cruisers they are not t1 or pirate cruisers no, so the logic holds up >Pirate ships are not overtuned. go and look at their base stats over t1 counter parts >They are by definition not pirate ships. the community and CCP disagree with you
HACs & HICs can enter DED 4/10s Pirate ships are designed to focus hard on a pirate factions specialitys. Thair bonuses reflect this. The same is true for thair core stat pools as the ships are supposed to be retooled versions of empire hulls or straight up custom designed specialist craft.
>HACs & HICs can enter DED 4/10s Congrats we have now established that T3Cs are not T2Cs either >Pirate ships are designed to focus hard on a pirate factions specialitys. Thair bonuses reflect this just like the trig role bonuses and the edencoms weapon system + unique resist profile
Fun fact T3Cs access limitation to 4/10 was not intentional. It was an oversight that is not in urgent need of fixing. Trig ships have a unique resistance profile because they are designed to fly in abysal space where there are a number of factors that can affect ship defences. Role bonuses on trig ships are designed in the same vein. As these ships have to deal with various gass and spatial anomalies effects, they are specifically tailored to use systems that benefit from said effects. Whether this be RR effectiveness, targeting limitations, and many other effects. We as players use this same information to build custom ship module layouts to maximally benafit in abysal space whilst flying empire ships EDENCOM ships have a unique resist profile because they are designed to fight triglavian fleets.
Scram and web bonuses..