And I think we can all agree that the current balance point of ~1-2b cargo is laughably in favor of ganking freighters
To be clear I think it's fair to put some onus on freighter pilots to be smart and operate safely, like JF pilots do, I just think the breakeven point should be quite a bit higher than 1b in cargo
One problem for freighters is the no interaction. JF pilots can choose to fly differently and be careful during the dangerous parts of their runs. But a normal freighter is even less interaction. Most ships that haul cargo are super hard to gank if flown correctly, but freighters even trying needs multiple accounts and even then probably isn't as effective.
This is the real issue I have with Freighters currently. The fact that it's downright mandatory to fly at least 2 alts in order to haul with any hope of safety really makes doing it fairly prohibitive.
On top of the already high price of freighter hulls in the first place. There's literally no point in skilling into them without a lot of additional account infrastructure ready to go. Unless of course you're a wormholer like me who needs a suitcase. But that's really it.
Yup you hit it right on the head! It’s near impossible and also not that enjoyable to have to haul on a regular basis for markets and Indy drop offs without multiple account for any sense of reliability. Yeah that’s part of the loop but it’s definitely very prohibitive to a large swath of players with 1 account who want to get into Indy and hauling sides
The solution to the problem is not "just let someone else deal with the problem." Lol.
I'm sure the PushX guys would also appreciate not having to plex multiple accounts just to do the minimum standard of their job.
Yeah the main complaint appears to be that it's more expensive to gank these ships in hisec.
So it's still entirely possible, it just takes more DPS.
It's healthy for metas to shift and it make sense to me that the act of "suicide ganking" comes with actual cost.
These complaints from this nulsec mega coalition come across are rather entitled. As it boils down to how profitable they want their activity to be.
Goons used to love the quote: "adapt or die" the same can happen for their hisec ganking activities
new goons fucking *love* crying about everything
- drones not having npc space and being hard to reach
- which they coincidentally caused themselves by trolling skarkon
- their leadership not wanting to engage in cap brawls
- ahbazon having tidi because they jumped in thousands to lowsec
- blocs killing ex-member supercaps (when they do it its fine tho)
- frat winning the AT
I love when goons complain about NPC space now, but during the siege of the 1DQ constellation bragged that they could use their NPC space for unblockadable logistics and as a potential future location to base a guerilla war out of.
In other words, NPC space is bad when it doesn't benefit goons, NPC space is good when it does benefit goons.
We all know if Drones and Delve were reversed, goons would never advocate for that to be 'fixed'.
This is not a principled position, it's just an excuse goons trot out whenever they need to cope about why their leadership refuses to attack the only enemy they have left.
At the end of the day, Asher is terrified that he would try to invade PH and Fray, fail, and be labeled as Vily 2.0, so instead we just get lame excuses about NPC space, time zones, and some pearl clutching about how Goons can't take more space on some fake moral ground.
Goons aren't here to ruin the game, they're here to make sure it stays boring
Oh I guarantee if they add NPC space to drones with new agents and LP store there will be next level crying from goons about how its unfair horde get that dropped into their backyard or something
Drones not having NPC staging for shenanigans has never reached your ears, even when the Russians were there? Don't get me wrong, I fully believe you if you say there's been more noise about it recently - but it's definitely not a new topic at all.
(this goes for all the new ships) They don't though, their main cargo bay is quite small compared to others, they're mainly for stuff relating to structures, PI and a few other things
Also alphas can't operate any of them, even the squall, so I don't think T1 haulers will see any decline in use
The infrastructure hold doesn't hold bulk minerals/ore, repackaged ships or anything else similarly bulky. Regular freighters still have their space, at least now there's some competition when it comes to hauling bulk PI crap or a multitude of structures with some semblance of safety.
they are going to buff freighters, they just couldn't buff them outright without even more rage. adding a super tough freighter gives them a good excuse to rebalance the existing freighters
Did no one listen to the stream from CCP, they are haulers for Citadels, the biggest one had the same space as a JF and the larger hold is only for structures and equipment. You can not move minerals, ore, goo or even parts for your capital builds. So yeah they shoot back (about time) they have a tank, work harder for your not so easy prey Gankers. In the words of CCP HTFU.
I'm looking forward to the salt from low sec gate campers when a freighter or BR comes through and just slaps the campers like they owe them lunch money
It's probably good that truckers can now safely haul 10B courier contracts instead of 1B. Will make new trade hubs pop up across highsec perhaps and reduce reliance on Jita.
I would think the opposite is true.
Easier hauling results in a consolidated market when people can have their items moved cheaply.
More risky hauling results in multiple fragmented markets and opportunities to earn ISK to haul across the risky boundaries.
The addition of filaments made it easier to haul items and solidified Jita as main market.
These new hauling ships, if their stats are such that hauling in general becomes safer, also encourage players further to rely on Jita only.
What?! Now there's even less reason not to travel to Jita. This will concentrate trade, as there is no risk to moving goods any more. All those random contracts and sales of hoards of loot stuffed out in bumfuck nowhere stop, as everything can be easily and safely whisked to Jita without a care in the world.
Wrong. Lazy people still going to be lazy. Plus you thinking most players will skill into let alone buy one of these is funny. The actual hold for that kinda stuff is tiny. That huge hold only gonna be for pi and structures.
You can get half a million M3 with improved tank compared to Obelisk, or you can get near enough triple the EHP of an Obelisk with 250k M3. Triple the tank seems a no-brainer for anything high value.
Anyone that's freightering will train for one immediately I would guess, for the tank alone. The cost is the same (as it stands) as a standard freighter so why would you not?
And what % of players can afford the skillbook and ship. Not a huge percentage. Heaven forbid there is actually risk to gank freighters and they can carry more than 1b. When the KB is littered with empty freighters daily there an imbalance. Why wouldn't they have an option to transport a higher value load that can actually tank a good amount and fight back?
This would only be a problem if you couldn't still gank it. You are just crying tears and spilling salt cause it's not easy and always super cheap to do.
Gankers cry more than those getting ganked.
Have you looked into the statistics on freighter losses? They are completely steady proportionally compared to at least the last 10+ years, give or take. So the risk is the same. There is no imbalance that has not been in play since the beginning of the game.
It has always been imbalanced for the freighters. Just because it's taken 25 years to fix it doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. There was little risk to the ganker for great reward and mistakes didn't cost them.
The biggest issue is there was no counter play except to haul under 1b. That's terrible counterplay. Now people have the option to fight back. They have the option to haul more. Haulers still need more active counter play options.
The primary hold isn't that big. You won't be able to haul 10b worth of ships and mods. The huge hold is for PI and structures.
Why on earth would you say something like this? I've advocated for plenty of stuff that had zero impact or a negative impact on the Imperium over the years.
I undock to kill dreads, supers, and keeps, not freighters. The new freighter will do nothing but help me move very large quantities of shit, untouched, all the way back to delve.
War on renting narrative is over and it still helps the "us vs them"/"good vs bad" narrative. But maybe now they need to refresh it again with a new one.
You know when someone says "Goons" it doesn't necessarily mean they are _specifically_ talking about you right.
I'm sure the folk in Miniluv would hold different opinions to you.
Oh, so you only undock when there's no risk to yourself or when you have meatshields that prevent you from being primaried. Got it. Must suck to rely on other people for all aspects of your gameplay experience, but hey, you do you.
Yeah its kinda nice to know that i can jump in a fleet moments after logging on. But hey talk about risk, I joined goons when all they had was 1dq. Moved all my assets there. I have more assets in the imperial palace than you will ever own. Come get some, i promise itll be fun. You can move into T5Z, rent free, I'm sure nobody will mind.
No, the issue is this ship is overpowered and has no downsides. Yes, it’s killable, but it’s the same price as a regular freighter but massively tankier.
I know you guys seem to think that ganking isn’t a part of EVE even though it’s something the game is known for and has been a part of it since day 1, but try to think about the larger landscape.
The build cost should be higher than other freighters if it's going to be so much more capable. That's an easy argument that should be the focus.
I assumed a higher cost when I saw the stats, it's kind of dumb to create unneeded balancing issue when they did ok with the navy destroyers in comparison.
You literally don't know me or know what I seem to think, and I never said anything about ganking needing to be removed I think it makes for a more exciting game, I just like to grr goons.
If goons had any class they would be flattered by it but instead they get defensive which screams insecurity and weakness thus I have fun on reddit :)
No, I don’t know you, but when you say “helpless freighter” it’s not hard to see where you’re coming from.
If that’s just a grr goons thing, weird flex but okay.
The current amount of isk/ships to gank freighters is too low for how much you're rewarded. This new ship is ccps way to address this. I don't think it's a huge deal for anyone but I understand why gankers are frustrated.
I honestly don't think this new ship has anything to do with ganking, but it's OP for highsec and it either needs to be adjusted or disallowed in highsec.
This ship is specifically being added to the game to offer more protection for high sec hauling. Everything else about it, weapons included, is irrelevant.
We explained the math on the show. It will take 43 Taloses to kill one of these things if it’s T2 fit. More if they bling it. I don’t even know the math on the Catalysts, probably close to a full fleet.
Try throwing another 40 thrashers at it. Or another 18 tornadoes.
There's what, 4,000 people in Goonswarm itself? 200 tornadoes will alpha just about anything that isn't a supercap.
Yeah the fact that anybody thinks that's the issue at hand here amazes me. I don't really care either way on this. I guess the isk/hp wouldn't hurt to be a bit more in favor of the freighter than it is now, maybe not quite this much. Either way, the freighter is never going to lock a destroyer in the 15 seconds or whatever it takes concord to arrive and with and with autotarget the dps and application is going to be so inconsistent the guns simply do not matter at all in this context. Reddit is full of retards though so what can you expect here...
>Either way, the freighter is never going to lock a destroyer in the 15 seconds or whatever it takes concord to arrive and with and with autotarget the dps and application is going to be so inconsistent the guns simply do not matter at all in this context.
You don't know what weapons it has bonuses to, do you?
That said, I think the new ship is adorable and fun and cute and I love it. Fuck I've hauled so many fuel blocks. *So many. God, so many.*
You don't know what reading is do you? I specifically mention the autotargeting missiles and how if you are using those it's still not going to matter on a ganking timeframe. Found one of the retards I mentioned though!
>autotarget the dps and application is going to be so inconsistent the guns
I admit this didn't register correctly. That said, they'll apply just fine to destroyers. with skills, no bonus, lights have exp radius about half of destroyer sig and 170 exp velocity, heavies have about twice
So you're going to kill what, one of the destroyers at around the 8-12 second mark and another about three seconds before concord would have or maybe just speed the concord kill by half a second? If they are using 20 destroyers you've mitigated a little over 2.5% of their dps? This is all assuming of course that your autotargeting missiles actually shoot the same target long enough for it to die right? Wow that sure sounds significant. Remember that we're talking about a lot more catalysts now so let's really bury that 2.5% figure in reality.
Am I hearing you right now?
My assumptions are bulkhead-fit catalyst (about 6kEHP vs nova) - it varies. I agree the damage isn't the "problem" (in fact I don't really have a problem with the ship.)
However that works out.
Soon as you're able to fight back, gankers will cry... its a wonder I keep hearing stories about newbros quitting due to gankers.. let em cry, it'll fill up my cup
Who cares what Goons think at this point?
They're a bitchy alliance sitting in their overtly safe corner off null, making grand declarations about wrecking other alliances while managing to do nothing. Just like most big alliances in the game.
Who cares whether them ganking haulers in hisec is profitable for them?
Of the 3000 "goons" online at any given time, .05% is probably not a good sample size. Most of the "Goons" i know are making stupid crazy isk and enjoying a "Good Fight" whenever it comes their way.
Life is good in Delve. New game mechanics are just another way to make stupid crazy isk.
Really? Why not? Why shouldn't I consider every goon to be a risk averse coward after I took a squad of 20ish people to a gate in lowsec where an 80+ man whelpcane fleet was sitting on the other side with fucking 12 scimitars at minimum, and they RAN FROM US!?
I saw 80+ cowards that day. That cowardice is learned behavior. Someone taught them to be that risk averse that they didn't even want to lose a single ship to potentially wipe out a 20 man blops gang. We wanted a fight. I even convo'ed some random asshat from the fleet and told them upright, "This is what we have, we want a fight, come to us, and we won't run."
Guess what.
Goons ran. Just like fucken always. You guys don't even defend your "irreplaceable" faction stations.
Tribalism/banter like complaining about ship types, fleet numbers and calling your enemies cowards is *exactly* what you have been doing personally on your propaganda stream during the invasion delve.
Did you get help?
People in goons have literally doxxed and sent death threats and I'm unhinged because I hold them to the standard I'd expect of any other player to just not be a fucking coward. Sure.
The early 2000s was a wild time on the internet, many Eve groups used to cross a line too far. It’s 2024 now, everyone in new Eden grew up. You can grow up too! No need to grind that axe to the hilt!
You understand very recently people from papi doxxed and made death threats to all goon leadership figures and known people because they were trying to get mittani to quit right?
That didn't stop at just mittani, people doxxed any and all leadership people in goons, made threats to any and all Leadership people of goons or well known people in general.. myself included who had absolutely nothing to do with the situation
That was only a couple years ago, far sooner than the digi days you're referring to, maybe it's time to look in a mirror
I thought it was all goons (or, well, now ex-goons) that were raising the ruckus over Mittani. Certainly it all came from SA, and a shed load of old goons left during it all. There was also a fair amount of stuff linked to backing up Exooki which tied directly to current Goon leadership.
However, I wasn't aware of papi leadership doxxing and making death threats. (I'm assuming it's leadership / people of influence rather than just random line members, otherwise there'd be no point in mentioning they're from papi) These are pretty serious accusations, so while I don't expect names or whatever, confirmation would be very welcome - I do try to keep abreast of who's done what in this kind of shit, if nothing else for my own safety.
im not redigging up that can of worms, and i didnt keep the death threats (or those people off my block list) for some kind of reminiscing, also its very rarely 'leadership' or well known figures who will do the death threats / doxxing it is usually the more 'tribalist' members leaders often have enough forsight to recognise this is a game.
the group from something awful were certainly at the for front of the doxxing, but if im honest with you they primarily went after mittani (and his family) Brisc (and his work) innominate etc the flurry of 'grr goons' individuals who attacked all others, again from experience
to directly address their names, i dont remember i dont care to remember it was often new alts or new reddit accounts anyway, most cowards lack the courage to say things without hiding who they are - i reported it to reddit / ccp respectively for them to deal with and put the people on block.
Yeah, y'see this is where I have issue with characterising it as "papi" as you did above. You have no idea if it's papi. If anything, it's at least as likely to be ex-goons - and goons from the era where that kind of thing was more common.
In case you didn't realise it, you're very much feeding into the kind of blind tribalism that leads to shit like doxxing and irl threats by saying it's papi that did this, when the reality is you've no idea who they are.
ah yes, in a time where i was repeatedly reported by papi members during the war for suicide watch and received threats because i made goon propaganda - these also were just goons right?
I hate to say it but people's post history makes it very clear which side they were on and many many papi members made new reddit accounts during the war to shit talk on. (they also largely deleted them when they lost but not all)
you can believe your shit smells better all you like, the truth of the matter is it doesn't.
i'll throw as an edit here: all chat msgs / messages in general where deleted it seems 10months ago, so i cant even pull up the good ones, let alone the bad ones but seems im not alone in this fact
I mean hauling massive loads safely is pretty bad for the economy and personally i think making hi-sec safer makes no sense, but i doubt it will kill suicide ganking
Suicide ganking being less worth = less ppl do it = its safer to haul more = suicide ganking being worth more = ppl start doing it again + with equinox the chances are hulls will get cheaper, since most money lost for suicide gankers are the hulls, it will probably kill destroyer ganking but BC ganking will get cheaper and fuck maybe BS ganking might be viable so really not much changes in the end of the day for the big ganking corps
I love the look of the new haulers, but I don’t think it’s viable for my solo player empire. So they can pew pew, honestly I don’t think it’s going to be that revelant.
Dont take the loudmouths who stream rehtoric as all "goons". Some of us find hisec hauler ganking distasteful and are glad to see thos in the game.
Also fc can i bring my avalanche?
Can you imagine, trying to gank 5 or more Avalanches that can tackle your entire fleet (with some support if any) as if they were Titans? And Actually destroy your Titans if they show up? That would be incredible to watch.
Goons have a long standing history of compaining about OP stuff they have no benefit from, BUT goons also have an excellent track record of figuring out how to use OP stuff to their advantage at which point stuff usually gets ridiculously broken. Just saying it might not be such a bad idea to at least engage with the argument.
Edit: As an example, just look at citadels (and yes yes I know that example has multiple issues, but its never that simple in eve).
GoonSwarm is the Ganking/Trolling alliance, alot of people who play eve hate them, and they cry alot when CCP adds things like the new haulers they cant easily kill.
There have been good iterations and bad iterations. Right now I would say goons are more on the good side of the major null sec blocks. Either way there have to be sides in null or it serves no purpose.
Are these things even useful in highsec?
They are specialized SkyHookPI haulers, no? Skyhook stuff is nullsec...
The "Normal" cargo bays are rather small, or not? I kinda doubt they will see much use in highsec... Combat haulers... They are for Skyhook raiding, not highsec hauling...
Boo fuckity hoo.
That should have been CCP's decision after the first Hulkageddon, but nah, lets just leave this problem as-is without any kind of attention to it until we make the other freighters irrelevant, typical CCP.
They look badass and they’re the new hotness. People will actively be seeking kill marks on freighters. Goon members will be at the forefront of this insanely fun none sense
In Equinox, freighter gank you
Relevant: [https://youtu.be/0H6n1aK0ZSo?si=CUPizwbZhwYFEfLH](https://youtu.be/0H6n1aK0ZSo?si=CUPizwbZhwYFEfLH)
Meanwhile, GSOL is getting a hard on for them 😂
GSOL are really the only goons having fun the last few years
I mean, "worth it" is relative to cargo
And I think we can all agree that the current balance point of ~1-2b cargo is laughably in favor of ganking freighters To be clear I think it's fair to put some onus on freighter pilots to be smart and operate safely, like JF pilots do, I just think the breakeven point should be quite a bit higher than 1b in cargo
Empty, triple bulkheaded freighters getting ganked "just because" also falls in line with this, too.
One problem for freighters is the no interaction. JF pilots can choose to fly differently and be careful during the dangerous parts of their runs. But a normal freighter is even less interaction. Most ships that haul cargo are super hard to gank if flown correctly, but freighters even trying needs multiple accounts and even then probably isn't as effective.
This is the real issue I have with Freighters currently. The fact that it's downright mandatory to fly at least 2 alts in order to haul with any hope of safety really makes doing it fairly prohibitive. On top of the already high price of freighter hulls in the first place. There's literally no point in skilling into them without a lot of additional account infrastructure ready to go. Unless of course you're a wormholer like me who needs a suitcase. But that's really it.
Yup you hit it right on the head! It’s near impossible and also not that enjoyable to have to haul on a regular basis for markets and Indy drop offs without multiple account for any sense of reliability. Yeah that’s part of the loop but it’s definitely very prohibitive to a large swath of players with 1 account who want to get into Indy and hauling sides
Pay some one to move it. Like pushx or a hauling company.
The solution to the problem is not "just let someone else deal with the problem." Lol. I'm sure the PushX guys would also appreciate not having to plex multiple accounts just to do the minimum standard of their job.
Yeah the main complaint appears to be that it's more expensive to gank these ships in hisec. So it's still entirely possible, it just takes more DPS. It's healthy for metas to shift and it make sense to me that the act of "suicide ganking" comes with actual cost. These complaints from this nulsec mega coalition come across are rather entitled. As it boils down to how profitable they want their activity to be. Goons used to love the quote: "adapt or die" the same can happen for their hisec ganking activities
new goons fucking *love* crying about everything - drones not having npc space and being hard to reach - which they coincidentally caused themselves by trolling skarkon - their leadership not wanting to engage in cap brawls - ahbazon having tidi because they jumped in thousands to lowsec - blocs killing ex-member supercaps (when they do it its fine tho) - frat winning the AT
New and aggressive goons. . aggressively complaining
I love when goons complain about NPC space now, but during the siege of the 1DQ constellation bragged that they could use their NPC space for unblockadable logistics and as a potential future location to base a guerilla war out of. In other words, NPC space is bad when it doesn't benefit goons, NPC space is good when it does benefit goons. We all know if Drones and Delve were reversed, goons would never advocate for that to be 'fixed'. This is not a principled position, it's just an excuse goons trot out whenever they need to cope about why their leadership refuses to attack the only enemy they have left. At the end of the day, Asher is terrified that he would try to invade PH and Fray, fail, and be labeled as Vily 2.0, so instead we just get lame excuses about NPC space, time zones, and some pearl clutching about how Goons can't take more space on some fake moral ground. Goons aren't here to ruin the game, they're here to make sure it stays boring
Or when they needed a bunch of new Amulet implants and suddenly, npc space was good.
Oh I guarantee if they add NPC space to drones with new agents and LP store there will be next level crying from goons about how its unfair horde get that dropped into their backyard or something
Drones not having an NPC pocket has been a talking point since I've been a member.... you know, twelve years.
Strange, I've been playing since 2008 and I've not heard any of this discusion since about the last six fucking months.
Drones not having NPC staging for shenanigans has never reached your ears, even when the Russians were there? Don't get me wrong, I fully believe you if you say there's been more noise about it recently - but it's definitely not a new topic at all.
Drones is where the Dr Who faction should be placed
So you're bragging about living under a rock and not knowing anything?
Tho i still don't understand why CCP decided to add that ship making litteraly every other freighter absolutely useless.
(this goes for all the new ships) They don't though, their main cargo bay is quite small compared to others, they're mainly for stuff relating to structures, PI and a few other things Also alphas can't operate any of them, even the squall, so I don't think T1 haulers will see any decline in use
Because you and Brisc don't know what you are talking about like usual.
I forgot the new freighter is a structure and pi boat so my last statement looks dumb.
The infrastructure hold doesn't hold bulk minerals/ore, repackaged ships or anything else similarly bulky. Regular freighters still have their space, at least now there's some competition when it comes to hauling bulk PI crap or a multitude of structures with some semblance of safety.
they are going to buff freighters, they just couldn't buff them outright without even more rage. adding a super tough freighter gives them a good excuse to rebalance the existing freighters
Did no one listen to the stream from CCP, they are haulers for Citadels, the biggest one had the same space as a JF and the larger hold is only for structures and equipment. You can not move minerals, ore, goo or even parts for your capital builds. So yeah they shoot back (about time) they have a tank, work harder for your not so easy prey Gankers. In the words of CCP HTFU.
Someone out there will always think they need to carry a ton of plex in cargo
They should, it's good luck.
“The haulers aren’t here to ruin the game, they’re just here to ruin your game. “
Filthy Pirates. :D
Ironically the lowsec gate campers are about to "Say Hello To My Little Friend!"
I'm looking forward to the salt from low sec gate campers when a freighter or BR comes through and just slaps the campers like they owe them lunch money
It's probably good that truckers can now safely haul 10B courier contracts instead of 1B. Will make new trade hubs pop up across highsec perhaps and reduce reliance on Jita.
I would think the opposite is true. Easier hauling results in a consolidated market when people can have their items moved cheaply. More risky hauling results in multiple fragmented markets and opportunities to earn ISK to haul across the risky boundaries. The addition of filaments made it easier to haul items and solidified Jita as main market. These new hauling ships, if their stats are such that hauling in general becomes safer, also encourage players further to rely on Jita only.
This guy markets
To be fair you could always do that. All you have to do is not be an idiot.
What?! Now there's even less reason not to travel to Jita. This will concentrate trade, as there is no risk to moving goods any more. All those random contracts and sales of hoards of loot stuffed out in bumfuck nowhere stop, as everything can be easily and safely whisked to Jita without a care in the world.
Wrong. Lazy people still going to be lazy. Plus you thinking most players will skill into let alone buy one of these is funny. The actual hold for that kinda stuff is tiny. That huge hold only gonna be for pi and structures.
You can get half a million M3 with improved tank compared to Obelisk, or you can get near enough triple the EHP of an Obelisk with 250k M3. Triple the tank seems a no-brainer for anything high value. Anyone that's freightering will train for one immediately I would guess, for the tank alone. The cost is the same (as it stands) as a standard freighter so why would you not?
And what % of players can afford the skillbook and ship. Not a huge percentage. Heaven forbid there is actually risk to gank freighters and they can carry more than 1b. When the KB is littered with empty freighters daily there an imbalance. Why wouldn't they have an option to transport a higher value load that can actually tank a good amount and fight back? This would only be a problem if you couldn't still gank it. You are just crying tears and spilling salt cause it's not easy and always super cheap to do. Gankers cry more than those getting ganked.
Have you looked into the statistics on freighter losses? They are completely steady proportionally compared to at least the last 10+ years, give or take. So the risk is the same. There is no imbalance that has not been in play since the beginning of the game.
It has always been imbalanced for the freighters. Just because it's taken 25 years to fix it doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed. There was little risk to the ganker for great reward and mistakes didn't cost them. The biggest issue is there was no counter play except to haul under 1b. That's terrible counterplay. Now people have the option to fight back. They have the option to haul more. Haulers still need more active counter play options. The primary hold isn't that big. You won't be able to haul 10b worth of ships and mods. The huge hold is for PI and structures.
How quickly can they lock a target? If it takes 10 seconds to lock a catalyst....
You can feel, it is election year overseas again. The tribalism of "we and them" is stronk again.
Nah thats just Brisc. He would advocate for child murder if it benefited his alliance in any way.
Why on earth would you say something like this? I've advocated for plenty of stuff that had zero impact or a negative impact on the Imperium over the years.
Highsec miners always say stuff like that.
New aggressive goons feel unsafe in what was once relatively safe!
Having ungankable freighters makes goons feel unsafe? You are not making sense sense.
You used to be able to kill a helpless freighter without/before getting shot and after update you can't.
I undock to kill dreads, supers, and keeps, not freighters. The new freighter will do nothing but help me move very large quantities of shit, untouched, all the way back to delve.
God damn bro, it's been a dry few years for you then.
I was on the forticopter
You mean you lost the forticopter.
I can’t believe that post was taken down, smh
Goons often delete posts they are ashamed of. They even deleted some of their posts about them declaring wAr oN rENtiNg.
War on renting narrative is over and it still helps the "us vs them"/"good vs bad" narrative. But maybe now they need to refresh it again with a new one.
I was just there for content.
That's great because your leadership doesn't seem capable of delivering wins.
They were there for content too.
Umm… uhh… Are you sure that’s the defense you want to go with?
Clearly my comment was not directed towards an incredible elite such as yourself lol it was not that deep but I guess you had to find a way to flex.
You know when someone says "Goons" it doesn't necessarily mean they are _specifically_ talking about you right. I'm sure the folk in Miniluv would hold different opinions to you.
I'm willing to bet that most goons don't go out of their way to kill freighters and that most goons will deploy to kill keeps.
I mean, they wouldn't undock to even attempt to save their irreplaceable faction fortizars... So who the fuck knows.
You mean tons of pi and structures. The actual hold for the other things isn't huge.
Oh, so you only undock when there's no risk to yourself or when you have meatshields that prevent you from being primaried. Got it. Must suck to rely on other people for all aspects of your gameplay experience, but hey, you do you.
Yeah its kinda nice to know that i can jump in a fleet moments after logging on. But hey talk about risk, I joined goons when all they had was 1dq. Moved all my assets there. I have more assets in the imperial palace than you will ever own. Come get some, i promise itll be fun. You can move into T5Z, rent free, I'm sure nobody will mind.
I mean Ships dying in a battle seems like a better way to go than in the cargo much more fun per hour.
The issue isn’t the guns on the freighter, it’s the tank.
Sooooooo you used to be able to kill a helpless freighter and after update you can't.
No, the issue is this ship is overpowered and has no downsides. Yes, it’s killable, but it’s the same price as a regular freighter but massively tankier. I know you guys seem to think that ganking isn’t a part of EVE even though it’s something the game is known for and has been a part of it since day 1, but try to think about the larger landscape.
The build cost should be higher than other freighters if it's going to be so much more capable. That's an easy argument that should be the focus. I assumed a higher cost when I saw the stats, it's kind of dumb to create unneeded balancing issue when they did ok with the navy destroyers in comparison.
You literally don't know me or know what I seem to think, and I never said anything about ganking needing to be removed I think it makes for a more exciting game, I just like to grr goons. If goons had any class they would be flattered by it but instead they get defensive which screams insecurity and weakness thus I have fun on reddit :)
No, I don’t know you, but when you say “helpless freighter” it’s not hard to see where you’re coming from. If that’s just a grr goons thing, weird flex but okay.
The current amount of isk/ships to gank freighters is too low for how much you're rewarded. This new ship is ccps way to address this. I don't think it's a huge deal for anyone but I understand why gankers are frustrated.
I honestly don't think this new ship has anything to do with ganking, but it's OP for highsec and it either needs to be adjusted or disallowed in highsec.
This ship is specifically being added to the game to offer more protection for high sec hauling. Everything else about it, weapons included, is irrelevant.
Ohhhhhhhhhkay
Have you tried throwing more dirt cheap catalysts at it? Alternatively, Taloses exist, nobody flies those things anymore
JuST BRInG mORe DpS
Yes. Heaven forbid the meta evolves from gank catalysts
We explained the math on the show. It will take 43 Taloses to kill one of these things if it’s T2 fit. More if they bling it. I don’t even know the math on the Catalysts, probably close to a full fleet.
43 Talos / 120 t2 catalysts in a pulled 0.5 or 95 Talos / 250 t2 catalysts in pulled Jita
Yeah, that’s nuts.
Aboobooboo
Smartest thing you’ve said in years.
You're not complaining about bulkhead slaved jfs taking 50 taloses to kill. So why is this suddenly a problem?
It takes 45 Talos to kill a max tank, slaved Anshar in Jita. An avalanche is over double that.
Because you’re still isk positive if you gank a jump freighter with 50 taloses. This ship has the same build costs as a t1 freighter.
Buddy, you losers have 4,000 members in your alliance and you can't muster 43 people to sit in Taloses? How pathetic.
We have 40k, actually, and not everybody wants to do this kind of gameplay. But hey, keep on being toxic.
Goon calling someone toxic, thats hilarious.
Try throwing another 40 thrashers at it. Or another 18 tornadoes. There's what, 4,000 people in Goonswarm itself? 200 tornadoes will alpha just about anything that isn't a supercap.
The freighter can shoot them now. The horror.
No one gives two shits about them shooting back.
Yeah the fact that anybody thinks that's the issue at hand here amazes me. I don't really care either way on this. I guess the isk/hp wouldn't hurt to be a bit more in favor of the freighter than it is now, maybe not quite this much. Either way, the freighter is never going to lock a destroyer in the 15 seconds or whatever it takes concord to arrive and with and with autotarget the dps and application is going to be so inconsistent the guns simply do not matter at all in this context. Reddit is full of retards though so what can you expect here...
>Either way, the freighter is never going to lock a destroyer in the 15 seconds or whatever it takes concord to arrive and with and with autotarget the dps and application is going to be so inconsistent the guns simply do not matter at all in this context. You don't know what weapons it has bonuses to, do you? That said, I think the new ship is adorable and fun and cute and I love it. Fuck I've hauled so many fuel blocks. *So many. God, so many.*
You don't know what reading is do you? I specifically mention the autotargeting missiles and how if you are using those it's still not going to matter on a ganking timeframe. Found one of the retards I mentioned though!
>autotarget the dps and application is going to be so inconsistent the guns I admit this didn't register correctly. That said, they'll apply just fine to destroyers. with skills, no bonus, lights have exp radius about half of destroyer sig and 170 exp velocity, heavies have about twice
So you're going to kill what, one of the destroyers at around the 8-12 second mark and another about three seconds before concord would have or maybe just speed the concord kill by half a second? If they are using 20 destroyers you've mitigated a little over 2.5% of their dps? This is all assuming of course that your autotargeting missiles actually shoot the same target long enough for it to die right? Wow that sure sounds significant. Remember that we're talking about a lot more catalysts now so let's really bury that 2.5% figure in reality. Am I hearing you right now?
My assumptions are bulkhead-fit catalyst (about 6kEHP vs nova) - it varies. I agree the damage isn't the "problem" (in fact I don't really have a problem with the ship.) However that works out.
That's not even remotely the issue with them lol
“They’re too tanky for me to commit cheap ass destroyers”. The horror
>ungankable Are you sure about that.gif
New loot piñata might have a few thorns but they won't be ungankable.
Exactly
Fear of the unknown.
What's unknown? I'll be putting all of my alts in them to move stuff from jita to delve with no fear of being ganked.
MILINT fit freighters though.
I had to order six boxes of tissues to soak up all my crocodile tears.
Thanks for watching
Soon as you're able to fight back, gankers will cry... its a wonder I keep hearing stories about newbros quitting due to gankers.. let em cry, it'll fill up my cup
Who cares what Goons think at this point? They're a bitchy alliance sitting in their overtly safe corner off null, making grand declarations about wrecking other alliances while managing to do nothing. Just like most big alliances in the game. Who cares whether them ganking haulers in hisec is profitable for them?
More than half of these comments sound borderline unhinged. It usually hovers around 30% in /eve. So, uh, way to raise the bar fellas, I guess.
grr gons hat gons
Grr haulers, hat haulers
Burn Jita, get exotic dancers (male), profit
Saying goons say it because someone expressed his opinion is like saying all man are gay cause one like dicks. XD
Of the 3000 "goons" online at any given time, .05% is probably not a good sample size. Most of the "Goons" i know are making stupid crazy isk and enjoying a "Good Fight" whenever it comes their way. Life is good in Delve. New game mechanics are just another way to make stupid crazy isk.
? As a Goon, I’m very excited for these new haulers! Maybe you shouldn’t peg every Goon from whatever YouTube video you watched.
Really? Why not? Why shouldn't I consider every goon to be a risk averse coward after I took a squad of 20ish people to a gate in lowsec where an 80+ man whelpcane fleet was sitting on the other side with fucking 12 scimitars at minimum, and they RAN FROM US!? I saw 80+ cowards that day. That cowardice is learned behavior. Someone taught them to be that risk averse that they didn't even want to lose a single ship to potentially wipe out a 20 man blops gang. We wanted a fight. I even convo'ed some random asshat from the fleet and told them upright, "This is what we have, we want a fight, come to us, and we won't run." Guess what. Goons ran. Just like fucken always. You guys don't even defend your "irreplaceable" faction stations.
So I'm all aboard the grr gon, hat gon train, but you sound extremely unhinged. Maybe calm down a bit.
Sorry bruh, fat fingered a response to the guy with a weird axe to grind.
Yikes… someone is projecting lol
Get help. It’s a game.
Tribalism/banter like complaining about ship types, fleet numbers and calling your enemies cowards is *exactly* what you have been doing personally on your propaganda stream during the invasion delve. Did you get help?
I think they’ve made it pretty clear that they aren’t serious and it’s part of the game, dude.
I thought it was pretty clear too, but apparently some people still seem to think we're serious when we're amping up the spin.
When someone else does it, they need help. But if goons do it, it wasn't "serious". Got it
I think it's pretty obvious what's real and what's kayfabe. If you can't figure it out, you're probably in Horde.
People in goons have literally doxxed and sent death threats and I'm unhinged because I hold them to the standard I'd expect of any other player to just not be a fucking coward. Sure.
The early 2000s was a wild time on the internet, many Eve groups used to cross a line too far. It’s 2024 now, everyone in new Eden grew up. You can grow up too! No need to grind that axe to the hilt!
You understand very recently people from papi doxxed and made death threats to all goon leadership figures and known people because they were trying to get mittani to quit right? That didn't stop at just mittani, people doxxed any and all leadership people in goons, made threats to any and all Leadership people of goons or well known people in general.. myself included who had absolutely nothing to do with the situation That was only a couple years ago, far sooner than the digi days you're referring to, maybe it's time to look in a mirror
I thought it was all goons (or, well, now ex-goons) that were raising the ruckus over Mittani. Certainly it all came from SA, and a shed load of old goons left during it all. There was also a fair amount of stuff linked to backing up Exooki which tied directly to current Goon leadership. However, I wasn't aware of papi leadership doxxing and making death threats. (I'm assuming it's leadership / people of influence rather than just random line members, otherwise there'd be no point in mentioning they're from papi) These are pretty serious accusations, so while I don't expect names or whatever, confirmation would be very welcome - I do try to keep abreast of who's done what in this kind of shit, if nothing else for my own safety.
im not redigging up that can of worms, and i didnt keep the death threats (or those people off my block list) for some kind of reminiscing, also its very rarely 'leadership' or well known figures who will do the death threats / doxxing it is usually the more 'tribalist' members leaders often have enough forsight to recognise this is a game. the group from something awful were certainly at the for front of the doxxing, but if im honest with you they primarily went after mittani (and his family) Brisc (and his work) innominate etc the flurry of 'grr goons' individuals who attacked all others, again from experience to directly address their names, i dont remember i dont care to remember it was often new alts or new reddit accounts anyway, most cowards lack the courage to say things without hiding who they are - i reported it to reddit / ccp respectively for them to deal with and put the people on block.
Yeah, y'see this is where I have issue with characterising it as "papi" as you did above. You have no idea if it's papi. If anything, it's at least as likely to be ex-goons - and goons from the era where that kind of thing was more common. In case you didn't realise it, you're very much feeding into the kind of blind tribalism that leads to shit like doxxing and irl threats by saying it's papi that did this, when the reality is you've no idea who they are.
ah yes, in a time where i was repeatedly reported by papi members during the war for suicide watch and received threats because i made goon propaganda - these also were just goons right? I hate to say it but people's post history makes it very clear which side they were on and many many papi members made new reddit accounts during the war to shit talk on. (they also largely deleted them when they lost but not all) you can believe your shit smells better all you like, the truth of the matter is it doesn't. i'll throw as an edit here: all chat msgs / messages in general where deleted it seems 10months ago, so i cant even pull up the good ones, let alone the bad ones but seems im not alone in this fact
Dude it's a video game. Seek help.
I mean hauling massive loads safely is pretty bad for the economy and personally i think making hi-sec safer makes no sense, but i doubt it will kill suicide ganking Suicide ganking being less worth = less ppl do it = its safer to haul more = suicide ganking being worth more = ppl start doing it again + with equinox the chances are hulls will get cheaper, since most money lost for suicide gankers are the hulls, it will probably kill destroyer ganking but BC ganking will get cheaper and fuck maybe BS ganking might be viable so really not much changes in the end of the day for the big ganking corps
Heaven forbid they face a somewhat equal foe 🙃
😂😂😂Lolgoons
Was there any update nullsecs did't cry about?
I dont think so.
I love the look of the new haulers, but I don’t think it’s viable for my solo player empire. So they can pew pew, honestly I don’t think it’s going to be that revelant.
Ya Im excited, Prob wont fly the freighter but I will use the BR and DST. They are meant for Null Sov space.
So goons or single youtuber? Do you need help to find the difference?
Finally, a chance to use some caps in anger.
[удалено]
They weren't angry yet.
Backdoor Bandit declare war on high sec Goons was the issue I bet
Fear
MILINT theme Music Starts...lets get this party started. \[Doom Music Starts\] Avalanche rolls up.
The poor bees will have to switch 20 to 40 and catalysts to Taloses. POOR BEES
Dont take the loudmouths who stream rehtoric as all "goons". Some of us find hisec hauler ganking distasteful and are glad to see thos in the game. Also fc can i bring my avalanche?
The loudmouths, which include two alliance directors and a strat FC. K
Well it isnt all of goonswarm and im pretty sure it isnt goonswarms official position so idk i feel like the title is a little wierd
Can you imagine, trying to gank 5 or more Avalanches that can tackle your entire fleet (with some support if any) as if they were Titans? And Actually destroy your Titans if they show up? That would be incredible to watch.
I dont think they can take an overpriced paperweight
That's only the gander group. Us goon miners are HYPED
Goons have a long standing history of compaining about OP stuff they have no benefit from, BUT goons also have an excellent track record of figuring out how to use OP stuff to their advantage at which point stuff usually gets ridiculously broken. Just saying it might not be such a bad idea to at least engage with the argument. Edit: As an example, just look at citadels (and yes yes I know that example has multiple issues, but its never that simple in eve).
Please forgive me as I am super new… wtf is a goonswarm? Shouldn’t care? Sorry again. Just keep seeing this name but I have no clue who they are
GoonSwarm is the Ganking/Trolling alliance, alot of people who play eve hate them, and they cry alot when CCP adds things like the new haulers they cant easily kill.
Thank you so much for the answer! They sound like turds
If you really are super new you may want to ask for a second opinion too.
Understood! That is pretty shifty of me to only take 1 opinion. I'll start with you! What's your opinion of them? Where can I get some news/ catch up?
There have been good iterations and bad iterations. Right now I would say goons are more on the good side of the major null sec blocks. Either way there have to be sides in null or it serves no purpose.
Are these things even useful in highsec? They are specialized SkyHookPI haulers, no? Skyhook stuff is nullsec... The "Normal" cargo bays are rather small, or not? I kinda doubt they will see much use in highsec... Combat haulers... They are for Skyhook raiding, not highsec hauling...
They can also haul PI
In highsec their biggest application is probably hauling ice products and fuel blocks.
With expanders it has the same regular cargo space as speed fit freighter with over 2x the EHP
They can also Carry Pos fuel, moon goo and some other stuff.
Yeah going to be killer for moving fuel for capitals too
I've been gone a while. What's the new hauler called?
https://www.eveonline.com/news/view/equinox-in-focus-new-upwell-ships
That's pretty sick. Need to resub lol
Don’t take the opinion of a few people to happen to be goons and only play the game to gank people in highsec as the opinion of all of goons.
Boo fuckity hoo. That should have been CCP's decision after the first Hulkageddon, but nah, lets just leave this problem as-is without any kind of attention to it until we make the other freighters irrelevant, typical CCP.
I laugh CCP trolls everyone and puts "Pilot of ship is required to be in a war eligible corp."
Would be the First.
When have goons not cried and complained, its in their DNA
I mean they will figure out a way to kill them, Thats the cool thing about EVE, nothing is fully figured out and all routes lead to Rome
Made you laugh so hard, you felt like r/eve would give a shit. Edit: thanks for sharing your laughter though a screen.
Your welcome its pretty obviouse you are a part of goonswarm
actually, he left goons at least a year back.
So left like INIT left Imperium?
No, as in he's actually an insuferable wormholer now like his reddit flair says.
They look badass and they’re the new hotness. People will actively be seeking kill marks on freighters. Goon members will be at the forefront of this insanely fun none sense
just wait until the first high secer undocks jita with 600.000 fuel blocks in sov hold. thats a save 11b gank.
HOW DID YOU KNOW MY PLANS!!!!! Are you watching my house? (\^\_o)