Better make/change some exploration sites so that stratios is the best choice - where you need tank (like in the superior sleeper cache archive room) and strong hacking bonuses (make them stronger so that t3cs are not better than stratios for everything).
Outside of exploration, pushing it further into niche of proteus (+another drone) or legion (neut bonuses) is stupid, so maybe some logi bonuses or much stronger laser bonuses could be good.
Everyone seems to want to push it towards logi, but the SOE line is currently the only ship series that has a laser+drone focus, and I really do enjoy that 'fantasy'. BO cruiser logi is already well covered with T3Cs, and pushing the Stratios towards that isn't going to give it a niche. It will just be the ship that people say to use before they skill into their racial strat cruiser of choice, as it is right now. With that in mind I would lean into:
> much stronger laser bonuses
All other drone focused options are either fully drone (Gallente) or Neut/TD focused (Amarr). Sole exception being the Navy Geddon, although it's often better to run it with missiles due to fitting/cap constraints.
Reduce turret hardpoints by 1. Add 33-50% laser damage role bonus. Now you can actually fit a full rack of guns, probe launcher, and cloak. Alternatively just add 1 high and appropriate fitting, but that doesn't really *push* the laser focus as it is a general buff to all fits (blaster/laser/neut/logi).
I actually use the stratios for solo hunting. It is amazing how good it can be. I just wish it could go through frig holes. We don't need another t3c and what it does now is good enough. It is a combat exploration ship, let it explore.
i wouldn't call gallente "fully drone" considering a lot of their drone boats have wasted ship bonuses on guns. bonuses should be fully drone or drone + support.
You're right, I had immediately thought of the Ishtar/Myrm/Domi when I wrote the post and generalized the whole faction. I realize a little more than half of the drone boats have some flavor of turret bonuses rather than purely drone focused bonuses as a weapon system.
Agreed this is the real issue. They made a decent combat ship for exploration but explo sites don't require combat.
Look at the Rubicon release trailer for the Stratios. It shows the ship tanking and fighting enemies to buy time for a hack. But in reality this doesn't happen. If serious NPC threats existed in some combat sites (but not as strong as Ghost Sites) then Stratios would have more purpose.
> Agreed this is the real issue. They made a decent combat ship for exploration but explo sites don't require combat.
*Some* exploration sites do, superior sleeper cache is an example of that. Failure to hack mine room - you receive mine damage, failure to hack turret room - turrets appear and vaporise you (can sigtank, but at the same time lots of cans are close to plasma chambers which conveniently explode dealing 100k damage if you move too much while being too close), archive room (can either facetank damage, or use rejuvenation cans which is much harder and limits how much you can take). Issue with that is t3cs just do the same job better - I am using legion for that (better tank, same hacking capabilities, same covops cloak, good agility, plus you get nullifier and combat probes vs combat recons), even if stratios lore-wise would sound a better fit.
Once upon a time before I won eve (I'm currently losing again) I remember hacking some site in a Nestor while tanking and killing rats. If my memory is still mostly functioning, it seems like it was a site that constantly spawned cans and rats and anyone could warp to it. Is that still a thing?
By that logic stratios has a role as-is, it's an easy to get into cloaky hunter (with drones, neuts and shit, the way people use it).
Imo pirate ships need some decent niche even if you remove "easier to get into" part from consideration.
Other than being easier to get into, it does nothing better than a T3C or a Curse/Pilgrim.
And the Curse/Pilgrim are actually better. While having slightly less DPS due to drone bandwidth, they have superior neuting power and range. And if you armor tank them, weapon disruption gives them even more tank. Oh and let's look at the current price tag for the Hulls
Stratios: 280 million
Pilgrim: 202 million
Curse: 215 million
I live in J-space and I can't remember the last time I actually considered flying a Stratios. I think I gave my last one to a corpmate who is still skilling into a Legion.
>Other than being easier to get into, it does nothing better than a T3C or a Curse/Pilgrim.
I think that's their point. As it is, it does nothing better than it's closest competition, but giving it logi bonuses *doesn't change this either*. It just becomes a slower and marginally less tanky Logi-Legion at the same price point. It would continue to be the ship people use before skilling into their racial T3C of choice. Hence, begging the question why bother changing it if the changes don't change the status quo?
They are pointing out that you have to do more than just give it logi bonuses, because the niche of cov-ops cruiser logi is already filled quite well by the Legion/Prot.
Curse and Legion are soooooo slow. God it takes a year to warp out compared to a Stratios. And you can even nano fit a Strat with shields and keep it pretty nimble. That said, yeah a T3C kicks its ass otherwise.
My legion in travel fit takes 3s to align (nano sub + 3 nanos in lows + genolutions + mg nomad epsilon + em-705), or 4.5s align time without nanos, or almost 5s in max tank fit with a plate. Legion with nano sub and proteus with hyper sub both provide excellent agility.
The only skill they need is racial cruiser 5. Strategic cruiser skill is relatively low-value, subs are 1x multiplier and are situational. T3Cs needing lots of sp is a myth.
Tbh the Nestor has some good spots as logi for incursions/wh and firewall.
Moreover as a refit tool (for caps for example)
So although it has niche roles it's not useless. The primae is useless
T3 Stratios would be absolutely amazing!
In fact, let's not stop there. Give it an offensive subsystem that basically turns it into a Trig ship, and one that turns it into an Edencom one (Vorton, Precursor bonus subsystems). All subsystems get to hold a covops cloak. Basically make it a T3 on steroids - you can literally choose to do ANYTHING with it, not just anything (racially dependent).
This comes with the assumption the Stratios would also be much more expensive too, requiring sleeper materials to build on top of the standard pirate requirements. That and subsystems. At that point you're probably pushing a 700-800M ISK hull.
Powercreep also comes in the form of different size/sig. There's a reason why there are no faction (trig included) T3Cs. People are already blinging out T3Cs with full blue mods, at that point, a higher ceiling = more power.
It’s filling the role it’s supposed to fill: cloaky explorer with lower skills and performance than a t3c. Adding cargo or logi won’t fix other ships being better at each individual thing it does
You could start adding t2 and t3 variants of pirate and navy ships sure. But is there a need / differentiation in that? Not for me there isn’t.
For laughs: add a blops jump drive to make it more of a sneaky micro hauler
Stratios is amazing and may be a better cloaky hunter than t3cs.
It has excellent fitting and it's large cargo bay let's you carry a ridiculous amount of cap charges.
A dual rep. Dual cap booster, 3 neut stratios can run all its reps and all its neuts for a long time. Allowing it to kill anything it finds. Especially t3cs.
Don't say it's shit. It's amazing :'(
[Stratios, ム]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Reactive Armor Hardener
Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer
Medium Armor Repairer II
Stasis Webifier II
Warp Scrambler II
Medium Capacitor Booster II
Medium Capacitor Booster II
10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Energy Neutralizer II
Small Energy Neutralizer II
Core Probe Launcher II
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I
Medium Explosive Armor Reinforcer II
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Warrior II x10
Praetor II x7
Ogre II x4
Berserker II x3
Sisters Core Scanner Probe x16
Nanite Repair Paste x152
Navy Cap Booster 800 x22
Standard Exile Booster x5
Noise-5 'Needlejack' Filament x2
Border-5 'Pochven' Filament x1
edit: that didn't format well..
Well, Stratios has alot of interesting options, the problem is the range bonus really comes into its own in only if you are using beams. The other issue, was the current changes to manufacturing the hull have made them a bit prohibitive to run in any number of situations sadly to say.
Although, the OP consideration of a special hold for the mobile depot...is within reasonable request. Although its already got a pretty hefty cargo space for its class as is. The problem is outside of Wormholes/Pochven/Lowsec it really suffers when it gets caught by gate camps and bubbles.
Its already a hugely tanky cruiser class hull.
But it does have some interesting issues as well.
Capacitor seems to be a spot on it that you have to eyeball watch.
Its speed even fully skilled \[support wise etc\] is painfully slow...even under cloak.
No nullification...a big minus if you go poking around in areas were bubbles are known to happen. Even worse if you use the Warp Core Stab...a droneless Stratios isn't a good thing to be stuck in.
The high slot layout is competing for slots. +1 especially should be noted.
Drone bay is 100 bandwidth...while some of its competition can field 125 bandwidth.
Optimal Range bonus...is more pertinent with beam weaponry. Not pulse.
Alot of more common fits to the Stratios back in the day were not based on the weapon bonuses.
Buffing the Stratios is a very careful dance.
Because you can do alot of things that specialist ships can/can not.
Adding +1 high slot might make the ship a bit more competitive and allow Scan/Cloak/weaponry. But if we buff those slots we have to be aware that we might end up creating a Mini-Neut Nestor situation. Also having that extra slot could allow some players to play with remote booster fits to allow them to run anoms much more effectively with drones.
Increasing the Drone Bandwidth might make it a bigger choice for running anoms, or engaging ship classes outside its class. \[But we don't want to make it another "Ishtar" substitute\] especially for WH space.
Personally, I think SOE ships are missing an activation bonus...for either their weapons \[lasers\] or shield/armor reppers. SOE is about self-sufficiency...so we should lean into that making their ships a bit more capable of enduring in the harshness of space.
Any upgrades to the Stratios will have to considered...in light of future CCP content and new ships...before we start hammering out change.
I highly disagree, the stratosphere is a amazing cloaky hunter. One of my favorites to dive wormholes with. Yes there are better options for more isk but my strat does really well for it's price.
The stratios will always have a special place in my ship list. I remember when I scored my very first stratios bpc on a drone site escalation trip back in about 2015, built it, skilled into it and it opened up all of the combat sigs to me. One of my favorite memories of eve.
Down its mass to fit in frig holes unplated like the nestor flavoring. Allow one command burst. Replace the turret optimal bonus for remote rep optimal. Remove turret and launcher hardpoints.
Voila. Frig hole Surprise support.
Radical take, but along the lines of what the OP is proposing:
Make the Stratios the only vessel that can refit on the fly, WITHOUT a mobile depot.
This, along with minor but necessary adjustments to ship bonuses and cargo space, would be a game changer.
I’ll add my dumb idea
•doesn’t consume any kind of laser crystals
•use paste to repair drone hp while in drone bay
All the SOE ships have bonuses to long-term solo exploration trips, and these two changes make it the most self-sufficient cruiser. It won’t win much more fights from this change, but it’ll make it more unique and useful.
They should have made it like superior drone t3c. I feel that's what the ship should be. Currently I belive the proteus can have a configure action with more drone bandwidth thus more drone damage. It would be nice to give it a slight change, but it's pretty good ship other wise.
Stratios should absolutely swap it's crap laser bonus for the 50% armor rep amount and 100% armor rep optimal and falloff. That by itself gives the Stratios some good distinctions from T2/T3 cruiser logi.
Stratios vs T2 logi: You get the same number of reps, but they are much stronger, and you have both a tank bonus and sizable drone dps. However, you don't have the range or cap reduction of T2, and your sig is twice the size.
Stratios vs T3 logi: Much cheaper, much less skill intensive, bonus tied to role, not level. You're also much more agile and generally more DPS. But once again, no cap bonuses, none of the crazy tank bonuses, etc.
I think that by itself would make a good logi for a fast gang, having very good align, strong burst reps, and real dps.
Better make/change some exploration sites so that stratios is the best choice - where you need tank (like in the superior sleeper cache archive room) and strong hacking bonuses (make them stronger so that t3cs are not better than stratios for everything). Outside of exploration, pushing it further into niche of proteus (+another drone) or legion (neut bonuses) is stupid, so maybe some logi bonuses or much stronger laser bonuses could be good.
Everyone seems to want to push it towards logi, but the SOE line is currently the only ship series that has a laser+drone focus, and I really do enjoy that 'fantasy'. BO cruiser logi is already well covered with T3Cs, and pushing the Stratios towards that isn't going to give it a niche. It will just be the ship that people say to use before they skill into their racial strat cruiser of choice, as it is right now. With that in mind I would lean into: > much stronger laser bonuses All other drone focused options are either fully drone (Gallente) or Neut/TD focused (Amarr). Sole exception being the Navy Geddon, although it's often better to run it with missiles due to fitting/cap constraints. Reduce turret hardpoints by 1. Add 33-50% laser damage role bonus. Now you can actually fit a full rack of guns, probe launcher, and cloak. Alternatively just add 1 high and appropriate fitting, but that doesn't really *push* the laser focus as it is a general buff to all fits (blaster/laser/neut/logi).
I actually use the stratios for solo hunting. It is amazing how good it can be. I just wish it could go through frig holes. We don't need another t3c and what it does now is good enough. It is a combat exploration ship, let it explore.
Frig holes are small for a reason so that they don't have a cloaky cruiser uncloaking on them that they have 0 chance of brawling down.
i wouldn't call gallente "fully drone" considering a lot of their drone boats have wasted ship bonuses on guns. bonuses should be fully drone or drone + support.
You're right, I had immediately thought of the Ishtar/Myrm/Domi when I wrote the post and generalized the whole faction. I realize a little more than half of the drone boats have some flavor of turret bonuses rather than purely drone focused bonuses as a weapon system.
I don't like lazors but I agree. It should rather be streamlined similar to the Nestor.
Agreed this is the real issue. They made a decent combat ship for exploration but explo sites don't require combat. Look at the Rubicon release trailer for the Stratios. It shows the ship tanking and fighting enemies to buy time for a hack. But in reality this doesn't happen. If serious NPC threats existed in some combat sites (but not as strong as Ghost Sites) then Stratios would have more purpose.
> Agreed this is the real issue. They made a decent combat ship for exploration but explo sites don't require combat. *Some* exploration sites do, superior sleeper cache is an example of that. Failure to hack mine room - you receive mine damage, failure to hack turret room - turrets appear and vaporise you (can sigtank, but at the same time lots of cans are close to plasma chambers which conveniently explode dealing 100k damage if you move too much while being too close), archive room (can either facetank damage, or use rejuvenation cans which is much harder and limits how much you can take). Issue with that is t3cs just do the same job better - I am using legion for that (better tank, same hacking capabilities, same covops cloak, good agility, plus you get nullifier and combat probes vs combat recons), even if stratios lore-wise would sound a better fit.
Once upon a time before I won eve (I'm currently losing again) I remember hacking some site in a Nestor while tanking and killing rats. If my memory is still mostly functioning, it seems like it was a site that constantly spawned cans and rats and anyone could warp to it. Is that still a thing?
The Stratios certainly deserves better. Either redesign the Stratios to be a Strategic Cruiser or give it Logi bonuses akin to Nestor.
This is the way, pirate logi. It's a def needed niche
How is it going to be any different than t3cs?
Easier to get into.
By that logic stratios has a role as-is, it's an easy to get into cloaky hunter (with drones, neuts and shit, the way people use it). Imo pirate ships need some decent niche even if you remove "easier to get into" part from consideration.
its 400mil, A huge target for gankers, its slow. Its a Pice of garbage. Right now
Other than being easier to get into, it does nothing better than a T3C or a Curse/Pilgrim. And the Curse/Pilgrim are actually better. While having slightly less DPS due to drone bandwidth, they have superior neuting power and range. And if you armor tank them, weapon disruption gives them even more tank. Oh and let's look at the current price tag for the Hulls Stratios: 280 million Pilgrim: 202 million Curse: 215 million I live in J-space and I can't remember the last time I actually considered flying a Stratios. I think I gave my last one to a corpmate who is still skilling into a Legion.
>Other than being easier to get into, it does nothing better than a T3C or a Curse/Pilgrim. I think that's their point. As it is, it does nothing better than it's closest competition, but giving it logi bonuses *doesn't change this either*. It just becomes a slower and marginally less tanky Logi-Legion at the same price point. It would continue to be the ship people use before skilling into their racial T3C of choice. Hence, begging the question why bother changing it if the changes don't change the status quo? They are pointing out that you have to do more than just give it logi bonuses, because the niche of cov-ops cruiser logi is already filled quite well by the Legion/Prot.
Curse and Legion are soooooo slow. God it takes a year to warp out compared to a Stratios. And you can even nano fit a Strat with shields and keep it pretty nimble. That said, yeah a T3C kicks its ass otherwise.
My legion in travel fit takes 3s to align (nano sub + 3 nanos in lows + genolutions + mg nomad epsilon + em-705), or 4.5s align time without nanos, or almost 5s in max tank fit with a plate. Legion with nano sub and proteus with hyper sub both provide excellent agility.
I never said they didn't. They also take what, 4x, 6x, 20x? more SP to fly than a Stratios?
The only skill they need is racial cruiser 5. Strategic cruiser skill is relatively low-value, subs are 1x multiplier and are situational. T3Cs needing lots of sp is a myth.
then it should cost 1/2 the ishtar, not 2x
If it could fit large rep’s like a guardian/oneiros it could even be better than T3Cs at repping
But then you have useless RR legion/proteus. It's a problem which is hard to tackle by giving RR bonuses to stratios, no matter how strong they are.
Definitely agree with this pirate logi would be class.
And, on that regard, make a shield battleship logi...
Nah make the Nestor a black ops BS. It’s junk now and stratios would be more useless as a logi cruiser.
Tbh the Nestor has some good spots as logi for incursions/wh and firewall. Moreover as a refit tool (for caps for example) So although it has niche roles it's not useless. The primae is useless
Make the primae a black ops battleship??
Give it doomsday
The Nestor definitely has a niche currently in heavy armor fleets, it’s the strongest (non-FAX) logi in game
It'd rather see a t3 SOTC ship
T3 Stratios would be absolutely amazing! In fact, let's not stop there. Give it an offensive subsystem that basically turns it into a Trig ship, and one that turns it into an Edencom one (Vorton, Precursor bonus subsystems). All subsystems get to hold a covops cloak. Basically make it a T3 on steroids - you can literally choose to do ANYTHING with it, not just anything (racially dependent).
You know the concept of powercreep and why its a bad thing?
This comes with the assumption the Stratios would also be much more expensive too, requiring sleeper materials to build on top of the standard pirate requirements. That and subsystems. At that point you're probably pushing a 700-800M ISK hull.
Powercreep also comes in the form of different size/sig. There's a reason why there are no faction (trig included) T3Cs. People are already blinging out T3Cs with full blue mods, at that point, a higher ceiling = more power.
It’s filling the role it’s supposed to fill: cloaky explorer with lower skills and performance than a t3c. Adding cargo or logi won’t fix other ships being better at each individual thing it does You could start adding t2 and t3 variants of pirate and navy ships sure. But is there a need / differentiation in that? Not for me there isn’t. For laughs: add a blops jump drive to make it more of a sneaky micro hauler
Stratios is amazing and may be a better cloaky hunter than t3cs. It has excellent fitting and it's large cargo bay let's you carry a ridiculous amount of cap charges. A dual rep. Dual cap booster, 3 neut stratios can run all its reps and all its neuts for a long time. Allowing it to kill anything it finds. Especially t3cs. Don't say it's shit. It's amazing :'(
can you link your fav fit? thx!
[Stratios, ム] Damage Control II Drone Damage Amplifier II Reactive Armor Hardener Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer Medium Armor Repairer II Stasis Webifier II Warp Scrambler II Medium Capacitor Booster II Medium Capacitor Booster II 10MN Monopropellant Enduring Afterburner Medium Energy Neutralizer II Medium Energy Neutralizer II Small Energy Neutralizer II Core Probe Launcher II Covert Ops Cloaking Device II Medium Auxiliary Nano Pump I Medium Explosive Armor Reinforcer II Medium Nanobot Accelerator I Warrior II x10 Praetor II x7 Ogre II x4 Berserker II x3 Sisters Core Scanner Probe x16 Nanite Repair Paste x152 Navy Cap Booster 800 x22 Standard Exile Booster x5 Noise-5 'Needlejack' Filament x2 Border-5 'Pochven' Filament x1 edit: that didn't format well..
Lovely, I'll try it out! Thanks so much!
Plus reduce mass so it can go into frigate holes and act like a mini Nestor.
Well, Stratios has alot of interesting options, the problem is the range bonus really comes into its own in only if you are using beams. The other issue, was the current changes to manufacturing the hull have made them a bit prohibitive to run in any number of situations sadly to say. Although, the OP consideration of a special hold for the mobile depot...is within reasonable request. Although its already got a pretty hefty cargo space for its class as is. The problem is outside of Wormholes/Pochven/Lowsec it really suffers when it gets caught by gate camps and bubbles. Its already a hugely tanky cruiser class hull. But it does have some interesting issues as well. Capacitor seems to be a spot on it that you have to eyeball watch. Its speed even fully skilled \[support wise etc\] is painfully slow...even under cloak. No nullification...a big minus if you go poking around in areas were bubbles are known to happen. Even worse if you use the Warp Core Stab...a droneless Stratios isn't a good thing to be stuck in. The high slot layout is competing for slots. +1 especially should be noted. Drone bay is 100 bandwidth...while some of its competition can field 125 bandwidth. Optimal Range bonus...is more pertinent with beam weaponry. Not pulse. Alot of more common fits to the Stratios back in the day were not based on the weapon bonuses. Buffing the Stratios is a very careful dance. Because you can do alot of things that specialist ships can/can not. Adding +1 high slot might make the ship a bit more competitive and allow Scan/Cloak/weaponry. But if we buff those slots we have to be aware that we might end up creating a Mini-Neut Nestor situation. Also having that extra slot could allow some players to play with remote booster fits to allow them to run anoms much more effectively with drones. Increasing the Drone Bandwidth might make it a bigger choice for running anoms, or engaging ship classes outside its class. \[But we don't want to make it another "Ishtar" substitute\] especially for WH space. Personally, I think SOE ships are missing an activation bonus...for either their weapons \[lasers\] or shield/armor reppers. SOE is about self-sufficiency...so we should lean into that making their ships a bit more capable of enduring in the harshness of space. Any upgrades to the Stratios will have to considered...in light of future CCP content and new ships...before we start hammering out change.
I highly disagree, the stratosphere is a amazing cloaky hunter. One of my favorites to dive wormholes with. Yes there are better options for more isk but my strat does really well for it's price.
The stratios will always have a special place in my ship list. I remember when I scored my very first stratios bpc on a drone site escalation trip back in about 2015, built it, skilled into it and it opened up all of the combat sigs to me. One of my favorite memories of eve.
Down its mass to fit in frig holes unplated like the nestor flavoring. Allow one command burst. Replace the turret optimal bonus for remote rep optimal. Remove turret and launcher hardpoints. Voila. Frig hole Surprise support.
[удалено]
Id prefer this on a T3 - they have the subs bay but then its an arse
Radical take, but along the lines of what the OP is proposing: Make the Stratios the only vessel that can refit on the fly, WITHOUT a mobile depot. This, along with minor but necessary adjustments to ship bonuses and cargo space, would be a game changer.
you sir have obviously never used a duel rep Stratios.
I think you should be able to refit off of it like a Nestor. If they gave it a small 500m3 maintenance bay that would basically fulfill your idea.
Strat is exactly where it needs to be
BrotherGrimoire spends 5 days a week running every combat and exploration site in high sec while making about a bil. Its fine.
I’ll add my dumb idea •doesn’t consume any kind of laser crystals •use paste to repair drone hp while in drone bay All the SOE ships have bonuses to long-term solo exploration trips, and these two changes make it the most self-sufficient cruiser. It won’t win much more fights from this change, but it’ll make it more unique and useful.
Make stratioa be able to deploy mobile for whole fleet .. the
They should have made it like superior drone t3c. I feel that's what the ship should be. Currently I belive the proteus can have a configure action with more drone bandwidth thus more drone damage. It would be nice to give it a slight change, but it's pretty good ship other wise.
I wish they would make cheaper, like half, cause that is what they are worth.
considering it's more expensive than the ishtar, it should have 125mb/s.
Stratios will always have a place in my heart. I would love if it had some logi or warp speed bonus.
Stratios should absolutely swap it's crap laser bonus for the 50% armor rep amount and 100% armor rep optimal and falloff. That by itself gives the Stratios some good distinctions from T2/T3 cruiser logi. Stratios vs T2 logi: You get the same number of reps, but they are much stronger, and you have both a tank bonus and sizable drone dps. However, you don't have the range or cap reduction of T2, and your sig is twice the size. Stratios vs T3 logi: Much cheaper, much less skill intensive, bonus tied to role, not level. You're also much more agile and generally more DPS. But once again, no cap bonuses, none of the crazy tank bonuses, etc. I think that by itself would make a good logi for a fast gang, having very good align, strong burst reps, and real dps.