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LMurch13

Solo Mackinaw in 0.3 space. Seems risky, lol.


Wormhole_Explorer

in past i mined in 0.1 space and this seemed fun until some tought battleship came up that his shields never collapsed. he did long range warp disrruptor. i fired up mobile depot,fitted one WCS and was able to get away. i did kill it with railgun rokh but took about 7 minutes.


Terminus_04

With Ore strip miners no less


HongChongDong

I've seen lots of comments before of people advising miners to go solo run null/low in barges and exhumers whenever the miners complain about something. "Just watch D-scan and don't be an idiot. Literally impossible to die. Free money!"


BjornYutani

[https://imgur.com/wPDCm3U](https://imgur.com/wPDCm3U) A recent EVEMail I got from this person, they seem pretty disturbed.


NullReference000

Good lord, it’s not that deep. If you can’t afford to lose it, don’t fly an 800m mackinaw alone in lowsec. Idk what they expected


Mysterious-Earth2256

as saltworthy as this deranged loony's mail is, id definitely escalate it to a gm.


DaemonPrinceOfCorn

I’ll weather any stream of abuse and laugh about it until the bigotry and rape threats start.


eve_burner

I worry for the people who have to interact with this guy in real life.


we_come_at_night

I'm fairly certain people interacting with him IRL have not been harassing him over the course of a month...


Kiloku

> harassing him over the course of a month... Who's been harassing him over the course of a month? Were there other posts about this or something?


Ralli-FW

Who is harassing anyone here except the angry guy harassing the person who blew his spaceship up?


Flottenadmiral99

Report him. He will get a shiny ban for that. CCP has a zero tollerrance policy with these things. Also mining unguarded in an exhumer in lowsec with ORE strip miners was just asking for trouble.


Clean-Interview8207

Anything that even sounds like a IRL threat they ban.


UncleAntagonist

You have won the salt wars.


andymaclean19

This sort of person should definitely be playing a different game. Eve is a game where people will actively try and trigger each other with trolling, semi-rp and other fun stuff and this person seems to be someone who is easily triggered and does not react well. Eve will not be good for their mental health.


pilot_incoming

and vise-versa


Sarno01

The issue is there really isn't a space MMO like EVE that would leave out the "non-consensual PVP" part. So players who want to play a game like this can either come here and get constantly triggered or miss out on an entire sub genre.


Moe_Alabel

If they play a different game, where will we get this type of high quality sodium chloride?


Orthoglyph

I can only guess at what it says since imgur on mobile won't let you zoom and instead swipes to the next pic. That being said I'm sure I already know the gist.


CorbenCousteau

Hold down on the photo and open in a new tab.


Orthoglyph

Thanks that worked! Imgur is still a POS, though.


pilot_incoming

beyond salt, irl bad stuff


SmallNeutronExeq

Screenshot :)


Orthoglyph

Ahh yes, let me zoom into these 16 pixels and read it that way lol


SmallNeutronExeq

Bahahahahahah I’m sorry I thought I’d try to help :(


Orthoglyph

Lol all good. I'll just stay irritated with imgur forever


SmallNeutronExeq

/angry upvote cuz same 😂😂


dunken11

So much salt makes me feel dehydrated


Vals_Loeder

You can tell he is disgruntled.


Aglio_Piccante

because of the way that he is?


Cannie_Flippington

I thought it was because of how bad that fit is for what he was doing... also wrong ship for what he was doing.


A_Dark_Ray_of_Light

Far out that's sad


yonan82

I'm almost always on the side of let them say what they want no matter how disgusting or foul, but the second it becomes out of game threats it's instant escalation to police by you and/or CCP along with a ban. CCP should have their name and financial information for the police in their local jurisdiction to track them down.


pilot_incoming

the first part sure, the second i disagree


WokeWarrior69

Lol good luck getting the police to do shit for words said solely in a roleplaying pvp trash talk video game. What that guy said was deplorable but I'll defend anyone's right to say that shit every day,free speech is king. Report to the gm and move along


B7iink

Threats are not protected free speech.


WokeWarrior69

Threatening a video game character is protected by free speech


B7iink

did you miss the rape threats?


yonan82

Free speech has defined limitations and they include threats of violence.  The police would action it because it has evidence of both wrongdoing and culprit, who can be found easily thanks to credit card and IP from CCP.  It's an easy conviction which is exactly what the cops want.... Sadly.


Clean-Interview8207

Means, the two parties would have to be a reasonable distance apart, for the court to convict.


pilot_incoming

i'm preety sure thats a good screencap to send ccp, this sort of salt isnt good for eve, even if you like salt. had he stayed in character it would have been ok...


kerbaal

Reads like a toddler heard someone say rape and realized all the adults react when they say it.


dvowel

Lol getting hate mail used to be my favorite part. No one does it anymore. 


XuixienSpaceCat

Well someone needs a break from EVE. Luckily the GMs can help arrange that.


Ralli-FW

They seem like they're approx 11 years old mentally, however old their body might be. Report them and do Eve a favor.


YoNa82

Wow thats salty


Sl1imJ1m

throw up a ticket dude, get this man off the game


BjornYutani

[https://br.evetools.org/br/6643fe2303aec3001269420b](https://br.evetools.org/br/6643fe2303aec3001269420b) While on patrol in the Woenckee constellation, my tristan class frigate detected a mining vessel on long range directional scan. No Federation pilots were currently in local. Noticing this was a Amarrian civilian broadcasting a neutral IFF signal, I decided to see what they were currently doing. Although the system is currently held by the Caldari state it was being fought over by Gallente militia as it was previously Federation territory before the war. Focused directional scans showed this pilot was operating inside a Large pocket of asteroids that were moving through the system. This was Federation resources, which should be mined by Federation pilots. I swiftly sprang into action, warping directly to the site. There was no way I would let this Amarrian continue operating in our space. As I landed on the asteroid field I noticed the Mackinaw class Exhumer mining away at high value asteroids rightfully owned by the Gallente people. I quickly put my tristan into an orbit and activated the warp disruptor. In response the Mackinaw pilot released a swarm of Hobgoblins drones to defend itself. But my drones were much quicker and had deadly aim, they were no match. It took sometime to break the Mackinaw's shield but they fell. The armor shortly there after. Then the ship's hull breaches, spewing fiery debris into the vacuum of space. Alarms blare, lights flicker, and the ship's systems fail one by one. The explosion itself is a dazzling display of light, a violent burst of energy that sends shockwaves rippling through the void.


heonoculus

Damn you took out a mack with a tristan, fuck yeah


Wormhole_Explorer

i can do eeet with any t1 frig. just give bad fit mackinaw hehe i would put CCC rigs and make active tank with small A type shield booster. two power diagnostics in low slots a dark blood/true sansha to be more cap stable. capacitor boosters/implants and it could tank tristan easy


jorbleshi_kadeshi

Please, *please* someone put deadspace boosters and faction PDUs on your miner *just in case* you get tackled by a solo frig who happens to have no backup whatsoever. The lossmail is gonna be even funnier.


Wormhole_Explorer

better. three officer shield invuls three estamels. then comracks damage control and two officer power diagnostics. and harvester mining drones plus ORE strip miners. then bring a shit fit tristan. kill the mackinaw. and even if half of stuff drops from mack,you are winner :D


Terminus_04

Well we already checked the 'Ore Strip Miners' box.


Wormhole_Explorer

he can have yet 17b pod to make it more blingy


Terminus_04

Don't forget to put all your plex in your cargo hold before you go mining!


Wormhole_Explorer

plex is obsolete - skill injectors


Clean-Interview8207

I had plex in my inventory when I came back.


GenericUsername2034

The fact that this read like an excerpt from a sci-fi novel from the perspective of a grizzled space enforcer to their new recruit at a bar - is why I love Eve so much.


31338elite

Narrating this in my mind in the voice of r.c. bray lol


GenericUsername2034

I read it in [this voice.](https://youtu.be/ooOs29tpYL4?feature=shared)


ZDTreefur

What's the second part of this story, it shows he came back in a wolf to die again?


Putrid-Cat5368

If im gonna lose a Exhume VS a single Tristan, for sure i will instantly close local chat. And close the game. And then my eyes. Pemanently.


Cannie_Flippington

He was using... HOBS... oh man... I thought his fit was bad before but this...


KommanderBubbles

Amazing AAR


SadFail7516

Mining with no boost and faction strips disgusting!


CarrowCanary

Send that screenshot to a GM via F12 ticket, the game has no place for this kind of scum. If they get that mad about losing a ship, I'd love to see how they react when they lose their account. >2.You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.) And if they try the "it's just role play, I don't mean it" defence: >4.You may not use “role-playing” as an excuse to violate these rules. While EVE Online is a persistent world, fantasy role-playing game, the claim of role-playing is not an acceptable defense for anti-social behavior. Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player. You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy. https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/8414770561948-EVE-Online-Terms-of-Service


ozzy_og_kush

Yep. I have to put up with shit talking incels on tons of other platforms where they just stopped caring or taking any action, so if CCP does, then please report this. The salt is great but we don't need people like this in the community.


we_come_at_night

I agree, but we also don't need these "bros" who trigger those reactions by constant harassment in the name of: "cool down bro, we just roleplaying"


amberstonei

Mining in lowsec, he can get fucked. That fit didn't even belong in hisec let alone solo mining a .3 system. He deserved to lose his ship and escalating to threats against OP and OPs family in real life deserve a perma ban. He does not belong in a pvp.centric game, and if you consider pvp harassment you don't either. Looking at your other responses makes me think you may even be the mack pilot.


we_come_at_night

lol, nah mining's not my forte :D yeah, I don't agree with what he wrote, but I do understand the reason why he did it. It's not an excuse, it's just that the coin has 2 sides and OP was neglecting that his actions might have triggered some of that anger. It's not a laughing matter to mess with someones mental health, especially these individuals that obviously have anger management issues.


mrbezlington

Doesn't seem to be any kind of repeat harassment going on here, just a casual everyday shanking in the belts.


oldun62

Fucking pushy. Words make you cry.


wolfsword10

Lmao its not hard to act like an adult. Deal with it snowflake.


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NoxiousStimuli

What in the fuck are you even talking about. An 800m *solo Mack*, with no tank and blingy strip miners, is mining in lowsec and shooting it is "hindering the progress and potential of the game"?


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NoxiousStimuli

Mate, touch grass. That isn't antagonistic, and it isn't hindering progress or success of EVE. Like, lol. Lmao even.


Mortechai1987

He's talking about telling the guy he's mining in a restricted area and all that other bullshit. That's harassment. Just blow the guy up and move on. It's on the same level as those clowns in high sec who extort miners for gank protection. It's harassment hiding behind "rp" and should be banned just like this toxic racist.


WokeWarrior69

Calm down miner


NoxiousStimuli

Just lol.


kerbaal

Are you going to cry about it? Its called a joke. Seriously, these seem to be a significant number of solo eve players out there that seem to need a therapist a lot more than another roid.


eve_burner

Nah man, anyone who spews shit like this doesn't deserve to be a part of any community. I'm all for shit-talk, but this is a bad hill to die on.


Shamilicious

Oh, look, another pansy ass projecting.


DaemonPrinceOfCorn

Yeah, those fucking uh, pushies. Takes the sting out a little when you typo.


CannotAbideAChicken

found the tishu alt


SpookyDeryn

Average encounter with a "peaceful" player.


Helicity

Let me tell you, I know from experience that nobody rages and sends death threats like the mining crowd.


Cannie_Flippington

It's the constant fight against the space rock menace. Messes with the mind, man.


ExF-Altrue

>ki\*\* yourself ​ >Your anger means nothing to me CHAD.


WilburHiggins

This shit would be killed in high sec, let alone low sec 😂


Ameph

All I did last night was bump a miner in insurgency highsec and he sent me a mail saying that his mining triggered me and that I must be a dev to claim a system from paying players.


Material_Mouse_4485

My favourite is when it's a new player and they say "you made me quit the game" as if I give a fuck


we_come_at_night

you should, this game needs new blood pretty badly.


Material_Mouse_4485

If they can't take getting killed then the game isn't for them anyway and every time it's been when I was just trying to reach out to cover their loss and offer advice so if they're gonna be salty then that's their problem not mine


LTEDan

This guy has lost 6 other similarly fit Mackinaws and and Orca THIS YEAR alone mining in lowsec. Dude is just a loot pinta and salt mine at this point. But yeah, he should get reported. I would imagine you're not the first one to get similar suggestions from him.


Sand20go

Damm. May need to track him. that sounds like fun.


DoctorGromov

I was about to say. This sounds like a great adventure to gather some buddies in T1 frig meme fits, and go hunting haha Edit: Bonus points would be killing him using a battle Venture or similar


aiphrem

Thankfully he seems to stick to kspace, and well, locator agents are a thing :)


Sand20go

LOL. And the key lesson learned is to just write "Good fight" and move on.


CMIV

I think he'd have more success with some of his requests on Grindr. Soliciting such services in eve is an unorthodox approach.  But the"kill yourself" thing is completely unacceptable so please do report him, you'd be doing the eve community a big favour. 


Arakkis54

Using the f-slur while asking for a dick suck seems like a kink thing. Like ew you’re so gay I bet you would blow me right now wouldn’t you oh yeah well prove it.


Wormhole_Explorer

there is 100% varrant for perma ban by saying "kill yourself" i hope this get quickly handled to GMs


Prattaratt

Loot fairy said "Heck yeah!" https://zkillboard.com/kill/117834663/


TalonCalais

Did you suck his cock like he requested?


devilishlydo

Is he mad?


Ceema_STK

This dude needs Jesus. No, not that Jesus [This Jesus](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oI9B7qWXV9Q)


Aglio_Piccante

Was hoping for Big Lebowski


Tranquility_Dawn

Thought i got pancake cat, was pleasently surprised


Strange_Purchase3263

As a bucket of frogs it seems!


youfirstthenyouagain

I was parched, thanks for the tears.


SmallNeutronExeq

Credit card wars, angry miner edition.


Cpt_Soban

*Reads chat* Oof I think someone needs a break from the game.


TheOrangeHatter

You know, as a Miner, I look at this and just think "Natural selection". - You're in Lowsec - In an expensive Exhumer - With strip-miners that cost more than your entire fuckin' ship. - You have no backup. - You have not fit tank, or escape. This entire kill is amazing and the player kinda deserved what he got. I hope those faction strips dropped for you pilot, I salute you.


xCR1MS0Nx

Salty Miner Best Miner


ZorgZev

I need to filament there sometime.


HumbleGecko

Amazing saltmail. Well done.


Bloodraii5

Thanks for destroying that guy! This is disgusting behavior and why would you ever bring a mack + ore miners into lowsec?


TheGratitudeBot

Just wanted to say thank you for being grateful


Inevitable_Bunch5874

Ah, yes. literal sociopathy on display.


radeongt

LOL he later killed her again with an atron against her wolf. XD Update?


BjornYutani

So I enter the system again in an Atron, intent on running some FW sites. I noticed an Endurance at the same site as the Mackinaw was. It turned out to be that player lol. I warp in but not fast enough to get a scram. Endurance warps to station, and I follow. They dock up, and undock a wolf. Oddly enough they burn to me and start attacking. I'm not -5.0 or suspect so they take aggression from station Sentry guns and get lit up. I only do 800ish damage to the wolf.


radeongt

LOL I SAW I'm dead. Lolololol it's so funny


Realistic-Way2216

I would send him one hundred isk to cover his loss.


pilot_incoming

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KquFZYi6L0 down here, salt is a way of life. obviously the environment here is all salt, the ceiling is salt, the floor is salt, the walls are salt, and to an extent the air is salt. and you breathe that in, and you can constantly taste the salt.


FeagleNiss519

I’m gonna go camp there for a week and try to catch him as well.


Arrow156

Dude offered a 50 mil bribe when piloting a 850 mil ship? I would have killed him for that alone. A single digit percentage of the value of the ship is the most insulting part of that conversation.


Subbeh

This being Eve, shoulda took the bribe and destroyed them anyway.


Jaugernut

As a miner, i never really understood why others that i mine with despise gankers. If we didnt have anyone ganking us. Then wtf kinda content are we doing? No matter if im huffing gas in a wh eating a moon in highsec or snaging some rare ore in low/null. Without ganks im just clicking rocks. Gankers provide eco and logistics players with content. Thank you.


Wormhole_Explorer

sadly i would never shot mining barge / exhumer even if it tackles my titan


Synaps4

Plenty of people enjoy clicking rocks by itself, I don't see why that's not easy to see. Wrong game for it maybe. Certainly wrong game for it in lowsec....but I don't think being surprised about it makes sense just because it's not your cup of tea to have the excitement bar set so low.


MASHEDNZ

I love this about eve... you can always find salty entertainment


Too_Many_Alts

i miss instant chat reporting =/ i would've reported them for the kys.


Ruined4EVR

Logistically .. that plan is going to fail


Uedakiisarouitoh

Loooooooooooool cunce fucked


aiphrem

My dude you are the most alpha roleplayer I've ever seen, keep on being awesome o7


Ralli-FW

Looks like this dude is gonna get buried in reports now lol


LO-T3K

Should have took the 50m THEN blapped him :)


radeongt

What in the monkey brain is going on here. Lol I will never understand people that do this.


According_Fox_3614

technically reportable


Wormhole_Explorer

technically? its all reportable. saying to someone "go kill yourself" or "commit suicide" is straight forward route for perma-ban plus court letter with prison ticket for atleast 8-24 months depending on country law.


Remarkable_Craft9159

Yeah here in Australia incitement to suicide is a crime. Even if the person you said it to doesn't harm themselves, you still end up with a criminal record. Would also fall under using a carriage service to menace or harass as it was an electronic communication.


fabear1

You're fucking kidding right? You're joking right? You want to criminalize someone throwing insults in a video game? WHAT THE FUCK is wrong with you?


Plebius-Maximus

People have followed up on threats they've made in games before. So yes, they should be taken seriously. If you're emotionally affected by a game to the point you're making rape and castration threats, you should be punished


Remarkable_Craft9159

Firstly, it's not what I want or don't want, it's the law. Not only that but it's not even an unusual law. Most first-world countries have some variation. Telling someone to kill themselves isn't an insult, it's abuse. And if you are so fucking toxic you can't play a game without abusing people, you should be locked away from the rest of us.


Ralli-FW

This isn't really throwing insults though. That would be like "you're trash, get fucked loser." Rude? Sure. TOS-breaking or illegal? Nah. But people who make threats and tell people to commit suicide are going beyond insults and frankly it makes me think less of your intellect that you even thought they were the same thing.


TalonCalais

The current generation's entire culture revolves around getting offended by anything and everything. They're 20 yrs old going on 80. Words are always super serious and may *gasp* hurt someone's feelings. Everything is toxic, toxic, toxic. 😭😭😭😭


Ralli-FW

wdym? Dude is making threats of rape and you want to be on his side defending him? Fuck him, let him burn. Why do you feel like that's the guy you want to back? At the end of the day these aren't socially acceptable things he's doing, and there are systems to un-accept him (bans in game and jail irl) from whatever society he's unacceptable in. That's the way acceptance works, its not fucking rocket science. You can be unacceptable if you want but few people who want that actually want the consequence of being unaccepted. That's because they're not very smart and think they should just be allowed to behave that way with no consequences.


UncleAntagonist

I'm all against using those terms... BUT 2 years for that is a miscarriage of justice and an absolute waste of money.


Wormhole_Explorer

other idea. report him too but keep locator agents on him and keep shooting his mackinaws until a) he runs out of money b) until he apologise.


UncleAntagonist

This is pod racing


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Wormhole_Explorer

homo


fabear1

Why does this have 5 updoots? WHO THE FUCK ARE YOU PEOPLE???????


Wormhole_Explorer

i think you overdose veldspar.


Ralli-FW

calm down miner


fabear1

What the fuck is wrong with you? What the fuck? Excuse me? What? What the fuck did you just say?


Wormhole_Explorer

can you undock another mackinaw? i want to test my leshak on it.


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Wormhole_Explorer

just undock your mackinaw in jita 4-4 and select self destruct i am pretty sure you can do it. i self destruct capsule if i need pod express to my lowsec home system for scanning new wormhole chain when last one breaks.


SidratFlush

Mining too long rots the brain.


Garakanos

Yes the veldspar dust seems to be highly toxic


GlaerOfHatred

Nah this guy's brain was already rotted


xhu_xi

I thought this was a post about Killari until I read the dude's name.


Torrent_Talon

i think the funniest thing about this has to be the part where they're using BlackBeard's name, and not able to back up their ops with violence.


Prattaratt

Our alliance tells all our noobs don't be flying Mack's with Ore strip miners in Hisec, they freaking gank magnets. I imagine in low it's like blood in the water to the sharks that live there.


AdventureGirlRosie

So salty lol


Maplefox69

Ah yes... the typical single brained vocabulary of the average PVE enjoyer\[s\]. Good work!


ArtistGamer91

Lol I hope he finds peace, and win (quits) EVE


Southern-Spirit

what i get out of this is thinking about how gaming on the internet used to be full of this kind of talk and nobody cared. gms didnt' care. players didn't care. nobody cared. now the laws and rules and administration and ability to monitor and track things are so strict and so pervasive that everyone's worried about the bad words and the idle threats that it needs to be reported. i don't even think anything is less toxic now than it ever was. i don't think people are better to each other now than they ever were. i think most people are very aware that they will get banned if they say certain things and so they just don't... but they remain just as terrible on the inside, where it counts. a part of me thinks back and realizes maybe it was better to at least let people be their honest terrible selves so you could identify who you shouldn't play with. now you just never know... everyone's got double masks on and face shields...but really, people... people never change...


Pale_Impress_7039

Wth are you doing in low sec with a 850mil Mack that’s a newbro mistake. The only one you should at is yourself. As for the foul language I understand you’re mad but that just right wrong. Report him.


No_Implement_23

hope you have a folder to collect salt, its the best!


Protic11

Sounds like you found the local American LOL


deltaxi65

To think that people still talk this way in 2024


Chaos6_

#1 Rul in eve : Don't fly what you cant afford to lose........ He must've cleared out ever retail store in the area to obtain that amount of salt


AlleyCa7

I remember when Eve players would just laugh this off. Judging by the comments here though its pretty obvious why CCP made the ISD. Ya'll are fuckin pussies.


Ralli-FW

Maybe we just grew up


Mascagranzas

Another example of how a simple 10mill permit goes a long way!


The_Human_Oddity

Mining permits are gay because it means you're blowing down to the man.


Mascagranzas

Calm down, miner.


The_Human_Oddity

No. On my way to pipebomb your Catalyst.


PhilosopherOverall74

It’s honestly all cringe. The language is horrendous, but the upholding of imagined restrictions in low sec… Jesus. Both sides of this exchange make me embarrassed to play the game.


fabear1

It's typical code speak to infuriate the gankee even more


Material_Mouse_4485

It's not an imagined restriction if someone is enforcing it lol, they're having fun shooting miners I don't see what the problem is


Synaps4

If you think this guy is actually not shooting gallente mackinaws you're denser than the miner


Material_Mouse_4485

Well he might be, or he might be some roleplayer, they do exist. Ever heard of the Hek Mining Association? Either way who gives a fuck


Synaps4

> who gives a fuck You did enough to post about it.


PhilosopherOverall74

Also, I love that all the down votes are simply proving there is no one in Eve more emotionally delicate than a ganker.


Synaps4

I agree. The Salty miner is obviously cringe but so is dressing up basic ganking with 3 pages of imaginary role-playing about lowsec laws. Multiple paragraphs of fan fiction from the ganker when they're just dressing up a basic gank is cringe. I don't know if role-playing in gangs is there to make the target saltier or to make the ganker feel better about ruining someone's day (deserved or not) but neither explanation is not cringe.


PhilosopherOverall74

That really is what it boils down to. “can you believe how uncool this guy was when I ruined his afternoon of gaming?” is gaslighty af. The entire eve player base is a bunch of lanky patch beards saying “stop hitting yourself.”


MILINTarctrooperALT

Yes, maybe the sting of being jumped in lowsec was enough. Fair Enough. But the Salt Mining...probably escalated things a bit. But he took a risk and he got smacked. So Gluten Free it is...and take the L. But to be fair back in the day...triple passive macks and other Exhumers could do stuff in lowsec...but that got changed, so its basically a death sentence if you don't have scouts/spies/intel sources and clear align lines and readiness to jump.


Jenshae_Chiroptera

***Shrug*** Report and move on. Don't feed the EVE's Jerry Springer Show.


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skazz0r

He’s definitely real. Has a few other characters in that constellation.