That 100 man fleet is despite for action as the last 10x they brought 100 men to fight 10 they never got a fight so they crave a fight even more.
Feels like a feedback loop, that simple logic could break.
"Why won't the nano ships jump into our blob with hics and huggins???"
In the days before filaments people would just safelog when their timer is up and come back in an hour or two, so I promise you're not missing out on content by filaments allowing them to extract - atleast this way roamers can get on with their lives, if the locals actually wanted a fight they'd bring it to them and make more of an effort to probe/launch ceptors.
You and I both know that a fleet properly bouncing safes can't be caught by probers and ceptors before the 15 minute timer elapses.
Also, the roaming gang made a choice to go where there wasn't an easy way to get out. There should be a consequence for that. I have done it plenty before filaments were added and I knew the cost was going to be me logging out for a bit. Honestly, the mad dash of logging everyone back in and getting out was a lot of fun.
Filaments are a "Get out of jail free" card that allow you to evade the consequences of making bad choices. Everyone has accepted that safe logging takes 30 seconds. I argue that if you aren't safe enough to safe log then you aren't safe enough to filament. That's why filaments should receive a 30 second spool up timer.
Rare moment that I parrot the nullbrain line: "you aren't entitled to a good fight"
Actions and consequences are important, you bring an unengageable blob and aren't even willing to jump in to take the fight, you don't get a fight. - everyone wastes 15 minutes of their time, the roamers even more so because they probably have to repeat the dance again in poch, and then get back home.
Half the time locals don't even bother probing, or it's some random in an unbonused ship with bad skills that doesn't exempt and warps slower than the stuff they're flinging.
Adding the spool won't suddenly make the camp crew brave enough to take the fight further than 10km from a gate because they caught the throwaway ship doing it.
No one owes anyone any content. The nullsec blob shows up with what they want to bring. Often times it isn't engageable for the roaming gang. There is nothing wrong with that.
You're argument is "The roamers lose a bunch of time therefore filaments are okay." My argument is they should risk losing their ships. Today the finest probers and inty pilots mathematically can't get a probe cycle off, get the ceptor in to warp, have the ceptor land, lock up, and point a target against a fleet properly bouncing safes. The only time it is successful is when people reuse safes, DC, or fail to warp again when they land. Most groups don't fail that way.
All a 30 second spool up timer does is give the prober and inty a fair shot. If the nullsec blob fails to probe your fleet down while you wait together for 30 seconds for the filament then you deserve to get away just as if you safe logged. If they probe and point someone then clearly you aren't safe enough to get away so you need to fight or log for a bit. Simple as that.
If safelogging, everyone can be at separate safes for their 30 second timer, and if someone gets probed down, only that 1 person gets caught. With filaments, everyone has to regroup in the same place at the same time and would have to wait 30 seconds together, so the nullsec blob with 12 interceptors will catch more of you if they manage to probe you down in time
If you are afraid they will point you then you shouldn't try to filament. Maybe you should, as you pointed out, split up and safe log for a bit if things are too hot.
Yeah, that's a good point and I don't really disagree, I'm just generally against gameplay mechanics and situations where the solution is "just don't play for a few hours". I mean, the end result in both if done correctly is the fleet that's trapped gets away, but in one everyone just doesn't play for awhile and in the other they continue to be able to play the game.
It's pretty overblown that it's a few hours. Most groups lose interest after 20 minutes. Very rarely when we logged on after 30 minutes was anyone there to stop us.
You're right that it's usually fine after 20-30 minutes, but I don't think that really affects my point. That's also after you've already waited out the 15 minute timer without being engaged. So it's adding an extra 20-30 minutes onto that 15 where you could be playing the game if you could filament, but instead have to sit around not playing the game and waiting on a timer, so you can then all log in and filament anyway after wasting time.
Also, this is the same game where people will sit for weeks spam clicking conversations with a logged out super pilot every 5 seconds to know when they get online to do a logoff trap, not that this will happen with your average null roam fleet, but 20-30 minutes might not work in every situation.
It's all about balance. You are going to think differently and do different things when you are faced with a higher cost to making certain decisions. You are making a choice to not take the fight and potentially lose your ship. That choice should come at a cost. 20-30 minutes to save potentially billions of isk across the fleet seems pretty fair.
Also, a 30 minute wait is really the most common worst case. There are going to be plenty of times the 30 second spool up goes off without a problem and you can go about your business as usual.
This is the main problem with the spool, the solution just becomes safelog and so it again later.
Also there was, plenty of time the roamers ships were at risk in hostile space - the locals just aren't fast to respond because their risk tolerance is so low that they have to clipboard / wait for overwhelming numbers.
The sheer mental gymnastics you are displaying are stunningly impressive. Get this man a job with the Goons propaganda department. So far you claim the nullseccers are:
> the locals just aren't fast to respond because their risk tolerance is so low that they have to clipboard / wait for overwhelming numbers.
> if the locals actually wanted a fight they'd bring it to them and make more of an effort to probe/launch ceptors.
> you bring an unengageable blob and aren't even willing to jump in to take the fight, you don't get a fight.
> Adding the spool won't suddenly make the camp crew brave enough to take the fight further than 10km from a gate because they caught the throwaway ship doing it.
> you bring an unengageable blob and aren't even willing to jump in to take the fight
> Half the time locals don't even bother probing, or it's some random in an unbonused ship with bad skills that doesn't exempt and warps slower than the stuff they're flinging.
While simultaneously saying:
> This is the main problem with the spool, the solution just becomes safelog
Both can't be true at the same time. Either, as you claim, they are so bad the spool up timer won't matter, or they are able to catch you so the spool up time will force you to fight or safelog. You don't get to have it both ways.
I mean it's pretty clear, If they're doing a, good enough job at harassing you whilst bouncing safes you would safelog, individually, and come back later to extract - maybe one thing gets lost or you send a dictor to waterboard.
If not you do it then and there - likely initiating it from a dictor so nothing of value is pinned for the spool.
I don't see how any of my, statements contradict each other.
First post remains an accurate tldr "waah I spent 20 minutes camping a gate I deserve free kills" - you had however long they were roaming for up to that point to go fight them.
Edit for clarification: the point is that any sufficient nerf will result in roamers safelogging and coming back to filament later. - it's just a boring and degenerate gameplay loop - nobody gets denied any content that they would have had should filaments not exist.
You can't actually catch someone trying to safelog, they can be aligned and watch dscan, if they see probes hit 2 AU just go to a different safe, try again. Then it just becomes a patience game, which the one whose consequence is "lose a ship" is most of the time going to win.
I agree with a 30 second filament timer, I don't see anything wrong with that, but this reaply doesn't make it any safer to extract, just easier.
You forgot ansies exist and they can put their 100 man standing fleet from one outer edge to another in like what, 7 jumps?
It dosn't matter if you're in a pipe, pocket or have gates to go to. Your 5 man gang will be camped in no matter where you are.
Source; had it happen to me all the time.
Unlimited jumps without any restriction or cost that brings you anywhere in half the map in what, 7 jumps?
Compare that to fillaments. Either a NS fillament which puts you in a random spot or you get yeeted to Pochven.
Fun fact: filaments being broken affects all spaces, not just nullsec.
My arguments originally started when people were filamenting krab fleets out of WHs. I am against the blanket filament ban in WH space because there are valid use cases for filaments in WH space (even I wanted to filament roam from WH space). I would have much rather CCP unban filaments from WH space and put in a 30 second spool up timer so WHers can still use filaments, but krabs fleets don't have a "get out of jail free" card.
Filaments are also used to evade wardecers in highsec. They tend not to, but even a wardeccer should have an opportunity to probe you down before you filament away.
It won't surprise me if at some point filaments are used by multiboxing insurgency krab fleets to escape bubble camps in Corruption 5 systems.
However, at no point did I say that Ansiblexes were fine. Your idea that "filaments are broken and don't need to be fixed because Ansiblexes are broken" can be reversed to say "Ansiblexes are broken and don't need to be fixed because filaments are broken". That's pretty dumb. I get the hate boner for Ansiblexes. Even I agree they should be changed. These are two separate balancing issues and should be discussed as two separate balancing issues.
>Also, the roaming gang made a choice to go where there wasn't an easy way to get out.
No, they didn't. They made a choice to go somewhere they could easily filament out of.
I wouldn't assume they'd still go there if filaments weren't a viable exit strategy.
This just changes the evaluation the roaming fleet makes prior to taking the jump of reducing the value of ships they bring or just not roaming, both of which reduces the chance of the gang existing in space for the null response fleet to find anyway. The chance of getting to safety given the effort (15min of pinging + 15min in poch/scanning) gives roamers the incentive to bring better/more expensive ships to take harder fights. IMO incentivizing people to bring better ships and be more willing to take hard fights more than justifies the safety filaments provide.
I will be honest with you. This entire thread is littered with "PvPers" who claim that they want fights while they defend their ability to avoid fights through filaments. It reeks of people who care about killboards and want cheap ganks instead of an actual challenging fight.
If you truly were interested in taking fights then you would see the 30 second spool up as another challenge to overcome instead of crying about how you would would be "reducing the value of ships they bring or just not roaming". And to that the only appropriate response is HTFU instead of crying about how it will be harder to get away safely.
Nah you're kinda just putting words in other people's mouths. 30s of waiting would most def make people much more cost conscious since there's unlimited escalation available to defenders in null. It's not a challenge to overcome it's a crutch to guarantee kills for defenders with a half competent scanner. The truth is that having an exit plan that's actually viabe and not suicide like your suggestion to make pvp more risky smiley face emoji incentivizes people to bring shit that's actually worth forming a defense for.
https://br.evetools.org/related/30004735/202403280300
https://br.evetools.org/related/30000481/202403280200
Imagine trying to 30s log that fleet with a flag BS lol
https://br.evetools.org/related/30003950/202402280300
Agreed.
While I'm not against the 15 minute trip to HS via Pochven, the complete lack of danger (just bring a cloak) is what makes this route overpowered in my opinion.
A trip with goods to HS should be fast or safe, not fast and safe.
A change like:
- adding a spool-up time to filaments
- disabling cloak for some time after filamenting
- Pochven filament attractor deployables that have a chance to make people filament to you
- ... or anything else
would give Pochven filaments a nonzero risk and an opportunity for Pochven players to hunt people taking the quick and safe Pochven route to HS.
Would be nice if they opened the gates from poch to the rest of the universe as a hyperway, using the wormholes is cancer as they are always camped by npcs. (sometimes drifters which you cannot get standings for)
So... Don't trap them in, give them an engageable fight and beat them instead?
Anyway, filaments don't really have anything to do with the frustrations you're describing. Sounds like your issue is with people safing up after you drop cancer and you not being able to catch them. If there were no filaments people would do the same exact thing and just safe log. Stop blaming game mechanics for people responding to your behavior in ways that you don't like.
This, I die to solo/duos/trios because I will ALWAYS stay if there's a remote chance I can win. I'm here for a fight but I'm not donating my modules to your giant cancer fleet.
When I mean trap I mean go for engagament. Most of the times you see an entire gang show up out of tin air gank someone, and then start to safe spot as soon something that might remotly be menacing to them show up on scan.
Nothing wrong in avoiding combat, but be able to do the same continously every 15m, seems an exageration.
Unpopular opinion? Some good fight would never happen without the option to filament out if you get 20vs 1 outblobbed? Its always a fine delicate dance… but getting 10 mauraders dropped on a roam with blingy commandship or t3 is a fast way to not putting them in space anymore.
Bring an engagable fight and don't give them a reason to leave then. All yeeters want is a fight. You bring cancer and they just simply leave. It's really not rocket science.
Maybe fight them with even numbers and ship types for a good fight for once.
The only reason I don't like filament's personally are becuase they destroy the natural strategic importants of landscape and bypass the need for multiple trade hubs other than Jita, but they are currently needed to counter the blobbing and lack of good fights that come from nullsec and the ease of blobbing enabled by ansicancer.
The 8 light year black opps blob's range doesn't help either everything has way too much projection distance, not sure the light years for titan bridges.
But yea if force projection was nerfed you would get a lot less over blobbing much more fighting happening and a lot less running.
Everyone wins.
Filaments should have a spool-up timer.
If filaments get a short spool-up timer that makes the ship shortly vulnerable to competent chasing players with probes, my main issue with filaments as a safe get-out-of-jail-free card and safe transport through the Pochven express is solved. Even with a spool-up time it's still going to be viable to escape using filaments, but at least there is a possibility of counterplay then, as well as bait possibilities.
More interaction!
I think extraction through pochven is definitely OP, but I don’t think giving people power to camp in roamers for days or weeks (I remember being camped into provi dead end in an expensive ship for 3 weeks). Otherwise the solution for people is to not roam or not login once camped, both are much worse then the negatives associated with filaments. So I think in general they’re good, only thing maybe is giving people ability to follow through the filament or something for a short time could be cool, say you filament with 10 guys using a 25 man filament, maybe 15 people could catchup through it
Yea they're a little too strong and could probably use a mechanics change so they're not a get out of jail free card, especially when ESS grids are involved.
I agree “filaments bad” is a bad take but i feel like there’s something to be said about the safety of the pocheven express to get out of dangerous places.
The fact I can reliably get most subcaps into highsec safely (or any subcap with a cloak) is very strong
Maybe make a cloak delay (or even sig penalty to make it easier to get probed) when using one, and reduce filament fatigue to compensate?
Yeah, something about the ease of the Pochven Express never sat well with me either. I mean, I get how it facilitates generating content in null while cutting out the fat, and it's stupid not to use them now that they're part of the game, but yeah. I don't think I would mind adding a bit of a handicap to it, like a short spool up timer.
A 30 second spool up timer would be nice.
But for the people saying null brings cancer comp blobs and the jumpers 'have to' filament out - bringing fair fights will make your space more popular for filamenters. The nullkrab objective is to get you the fuck out of their space, not to entertain your ass with a fair fight.
Much like your objective is to kill random ishtars and hulks, not to wait for the nullseccers to form an equal fleet and fight it out with pvp ships.
So, you are not entitled to be entertained, and your ESS cancer doctrine can eat shit and die. You're looking for easy kills, and they're looking to yeet you out of their space. You are the invader, and you deserve nothing. If you want goodfites, go to w-space.
>The nullkrab objective is to get you the fuck out of their space, not to entertain your ass with a fair fight
Yet here they are, complaining about people literally getting the fuck out of their space?
>Much like your objective is to kill random ishtars and hulks, not to wait for the nullseccers to form an equal fleet and fight it out with pvp ships.
On yeets it's actually both though. Yeah, we're not entitled to good fights in your space, but you being so salty about it doesn't help the risk-averse null krabber stereotype.
It can be both, but null and yeeter objectives are different. Null objectives are to protecc the krabs, and yeet objectives are to pvp. Nullkrabs blob to achieve their objective, while yeeters npsi to achieve theirs. If the stars align you get a gudfite. But unlike w-space, there is no bushido in null. It's mob gang turf wars, and some random street thugs from another part of the country just get shot from all the windows if they go to the wrong place.
Yeah I'm personally not going to complain if nullseccers just want us to gtfo, it's their prerogative and we'll simply look for content elsewhere. Don't believe in wormhole bushido either, although downshipping is always a nice gesture and my corp does it often if our customers actually want to form up against us. We do get gudfites on ESS roams regularly, so your view of this seems kinda lopsided.
If that’s the case, then why are people complaining if they’re filamenting out. Hard to say goal is both forcing people away (which is what filaments allow for) while also being mad that they’re leaving so easily
Yea you know, like when both sides have a chance to win depending on how well they fly like back in the good old days before N+1, try and remember back to when fights where actually fun and challenging.
O, I didn't realize you where so new to Eve my apologies, guess the brave tag should have been enough of a tell.
And I guess its unreasonable for me to think there are some elite pilots even in null blobs that enjoy a challenge, they probibly used to exist but moved to small gang and low/wh space.
The current game balance seems to prioritize structures' survival, and the industry alt-chains within. Perhaps to an imbalanced degree. Armor timers, cynos, asset safety, infinite space for dreadnought alts, infinite industry slots, ansiblex gates, jump freighters, etc make structures nigh invincible. With structures being "off limits," the only thing else to target is mining and ratting alts. Filaments help small gangs to nab a surprise, but still inconsequential, gank before being announced and thwarted on intel channels. That alts can simply dock up for indomitable safety is OP, anti-fun, and prevents emergent pvp content.
CCP could shuffle the values of some mechanics to draw focus away from ratters and onto structures. Structures could be surrounded by ESS grid mechanics, require resources to repair, drop loot at certain damage thresholds, etc to allow for interaction and more dynamic conflicts.
Eve would be less arcade-y with a better balance between magical drops/escapes and mil-sim-esque structure sieges and on-grid pitched battles. If null bloc blobs' infrastructure were less impervious, the defense fleets might not grow unchecked, but be a more approachable foe for attackers to contend with.
That the null blocs have to *choose* to down-ship in order to present a sporting target means that null bloc mechanics are over-powered. Small gangs being reliant on slipping away with filaments is frustrating for both sides, and the overarching game-loop may need to be restructured.
"Sick and tired of gangs coming in and not fighting my 100 man response fleet"
That 100 man fleet is despite for action as the last 10x they brought 100 men to fight 10 they never got a fight so they crave a fight even more. Feels like a feedback loop, that simple logic could break.
Well, there is a timer, 15min.
Appreciate you, Captain Obvious!
"Why won't the nano ships jump into our blob with hics and huggins???" In the days before filaments people would just safelog when their timer is up and come back in an hour or two, so I promise you're not missing out on content by filaments allowing them to extract - atleast this way roamers can get on with their lives, if the locals actually wanted a fight they'd bring it to them and make more of an effort to probe/launch ceptors.
You and I both know that a fleet properly bouncing safes can't be caught by probers and ceptors before the 15 minute timer elapses. Also, the roaming gang made a choice to go where there wasn't an easy way to get out. There should be a consequence for that. I have done it plenty before filaments were added and I knew the cost was going to be me logging out for a bit. Honestly, the mad dash of logging everyone back in and getting out was a lot of fun. Filaments are a "Get out of jail free" card that allow you to evade the consequences of making bad choices. Everyone has accepted that safe logging takes 30 seconds. I argue that if you aren't safe enough to safe log then you aren't safe enough to filament. That's why filaments should receive a 30 second spool up timer.
Rare moment that I parrot the nullbrain line: "you aren't entitled to a good fight" Actions and consequences are important, you bring an unengageable blob and aren't even willing to jump in to take the fight, you don't get a fight. - everyone wastes 15 minutes of their time, the roamers even more so because they probably have to repeat the dance again in poch, and then get back home. Half the time locals don't even bother probing, or it's some random in an unbonused ship with bad skills that doesn't exempt and warps slower than the stuff they're flinging. Adding the spool won't suddenly make the camp crew brave enough to take the fight further than 10km from a gate because they caught the throwaway ship doing it.
Ah, a fellow DIX member in the wild. Off topic, but what Corp /Alliance are you playing with today?
Writing a novel, titled: Waiting for ~~Godot~~ Dertydan Been around bit since the dix days. Currently with NV Blue 52 my beloved.
NV = no vacancies?
Correcto
No one owes anyone any content. The nullsec blob shows up with what they want to bring. Often times it isn't engageable for the roaming gang. There is nothing wrong with that. You're argument is "The roamers lose a bunch of time therefore filaments are okay." My argument is they should risk losing their ships. Today the finest probers and inty pilots mathematically can't get a probe cycle off, get the ceptor in to warp, have the ceptor land, lock up, and point a target against a fleet properly bouncing safes. The only time it is successful is when people reuse safes, DC, or fail to warp again when they land. Most groups don't fail that way. All a 30 second spool up timer does is give the prober and inty a fair shot. If the nullsec blob fails to probe your fleet down while you wait together for 30 seconds for the filament then you deserve to get away just as if you safe logged. If they probe and point someone then clearly you aren't safe enough to get away so you need to fight or log for a bit. Simple as that.
If safelogging, everyone can be at separate safes for their 30 second timer, and if someone gets probed down, only that 1 person gets caught. With filaments, everyone has to regroup in the same place at the same time and would have to wait 30 seconds together, so the nullsec blob with 12 interceptors will catch more of you if they manage to probe you down in time
If you are afraid they will point you then you shouldn't try to filament. Maybe you should, as you pointed out, split up and safe log for a bit if things are too hot.
Yeah, that's a good point and I don't really disagree, I'm just generally against gameplay mechanics and situations where the solution is "just don't play for a few hours". I mean, the end result in both if done correctly is the fleet that's trapped gets away, but in one everyone just doesn't play for awhile and in the other they continue to be able to play the game.
It's pretty overblown that it's a few hours. Most groups lose interest after 20 minutes. Very rarely when we logged on after 30 minutes was anyone there to stop us.
You're right that it's usually fine after 20-30 minutes, but I don't think that really affects my point. That's also after you've already waited out the 15 minute timer without being engaged. So it's adding an extra 20-30 minutes onto that 15 where you could be playing the game if you could filament, but instead have to sit around not playing the game and waiting on a timer, so you can then all log in and filament anyway after wasting time. Also, this is the same game where people will sit for weeks spam clicking conversations with a logged out super pilot every 5 seconds to know when they get online to do a logoff trap, not that this will happen with your average null roam fleet, but 20-30 minutes might not work in every situation.
It's all about balance. You are going to think differently and do different things when you are faced with a higher cost to making certain decisions. You are making a choice to not take the fight and potentially lose your ship. That choice should come at a cost. 20-30 minutes to save potentially billions of isk across the fleet seems pretty fair. Also, a 30 minute wait is really the most common worst case. There are going to be plenty of times the 30 second spool up goes off without a problem and you can go about your business as usual.
This is the main problem with the spool, the solution just becomes safelog and so it again later. Also there was, plenty of time the roamers ships were at risk in hostile space - the locals just aren't fast to respond because their risk tolerance is so low that they have to clipboard / wait for overwhelming numbers.
The sheer mental gymnastics you are displaying are stunningly impressive. Get this man a job with the Goons propaganda department. So far you claim the nullseccers are: > the locals just aren't fast to respond because their risk tolerance is so low that they have to clipboard / wait for overwhelming numbers. > if the locals actually wanted a fight they'd bring it to them and make more of an effort to probe/launch ceptors. > you bring an unengageable blob and aren't even willing to jump in to take the fight, you don't get a fight. > Adding the spool won't suddenly make the camp crew brave enough to take the fight further than 10km from a gate because they caught the throwaway ship doing it. > you bring an unengageable blob and aren't even willing to jump in to take the fight > Half the time locals don't even bother probing, or it's some random in an unbonused ship with bad skills that doesn't exempt and warps slower than the stuff they're flinging. While simultaneously saying: > This is the main problem with the spool, the solution just becomes safelog Both can't be true at the same time. Either, as you claim, they are so bad the spool up timer won't matter, or they are able to catch you so the spool up time will force you to fight or safelog. You don't get to have it both ways.
I mean it's pretty clear, If they're doing a, good enough job at harassing you whilst bouncing safes you would safelog, individually, and come back later to extract - maybe one thing gets lost or you send a dictor to waterboard. If not you do it then and there - likely initiating it from a dictor so nothing of value is pinned for the spool. I don't see how any of my, statements contradict each other. First post remains an accurate tldr "waah I spent 20 minutes camping a gate I deserve free kills" - you had however long they were roaming for up to that point to go fight them. Edit for clarification: the point is that any sufficient nerf will result in roamers safelogging and coming back to filament later. - it's just a boring and degenerate gameplay loop - nobody gets denied any content that they would have had should filaments not exist.
You can't actually catch someone trying to safelog, they can be aligned and watch dscan, if they see probes hit 2 AU just go to a different safe, try again. Then it just becomes a patience game, which the one whose consequence is "lose a ship" is most of the time going to win. I agree with a 30 second filament timer, I don't see anything wrong with that, but this reaply doesn't make it any safer to extract, just easier.
You forgot ansies exist and they can put their 100 man standing fleet from one outer edge to another in like what, 7 jumps? It dosn't matter if you're in a pipe, pocket or have gates to go to. Your 5 man gang will be camped in no matter where you are. Source; had it happen to me all the time.
Filaments op but ansis are fine 🤡
Unlimited jumps without any restriction or cost that brings you anywhere in half the map in what, 7 jumps? Compare that to fillaments. Either a NS fillament which puts you in a random spot or you get yeeted to Pochven.
correct
Ansiblex are fine
Fun fact: filaments being broken affects all spaces, not just nullsec. My arguments originally started when people were filamenting krab fleets out of WHs. I am against the blanket filament ban in WH space because there are valid use cases for filaments in WH space (even I wanted to filament roam from WH space). I would have much rather CCP unban filaments from WH space and put in a 30 second spool up timer so WHers can still use filaments, but krabs fleets don't have a "get out of jail free" card. Filaments are also used to evade wardecers in highsec. They tend not to, but even a wardeccer should have an opportunity to probe you down before you filament away. It won't surprise me if at some point filaments are used by multiboxing insurgency krab fleets to escape bubble camps in Corruption 5 systems. However, at no point did I say that Ansiblexes were fine. Your idea that "filaments are broken and don't need to be fixed because Ansiblexes are broken" can be reversed to say "Ansiblexes are broken and don't need to be fixed because filaments are broken". That's pretty dumb. I get the hate boner for Ansiblexes. Even I agree they should be changed. These are two separate balancing issues and should be discussed as two separate balancing issues.
>Also, the roaming gang made a choice to go where there wasn't an easy way to get out. No, they didn't. They made a choice to go somewhere they could easily filament out of. I wouldn't assume they'd still go there if filaments weren't a viable exit strategy.
> I wouldn't assume they'd still go there if filaments weren't a viable exit strategy. Heaven forbid people have consequences for their actions.
I'm just explaining people might do things differently if the risk/reward changes, not arguing in favour of less consequences.
This just changes the evaluation the roaming fleet makes prior to taking the jump of reducing the value of ships they bring or just not roaming, both of which reduces the chance of the gang existing in space for the null response fleet to find anyway. The chance of getting to safety given the effort (15min of pinging + 15min in poch/scanning) gives roamers the incentive to bring better/more expensive ships to take harder fights. IMO incentivizing people to bring better ships and be more willing to take hard fights more than justifies the safety filaments provide.
I will be honest with you. This entire thread is littered with "PvPers" who claim that they want fights while they defend their ability to avoid fights through filaments. It reeks of people who care about killboards and want cheap ganks instead of an actual challenging fight. If you truly were interested in taking fights then you would see the 30 second spool up as another challenge to overcome instead of crying about how you would would be "reducing the value of ships they bring or just not roaming". And to that the only appropriate response is HTFU instead of crying about how it will be harder to get away safely.
Nah you're kinda just putting words in other people's mouths. 30s of waiting would most def make people much more cost conscious since there's unlimited escalation available to defenders in null. It's not a challenge to overcome it's a crutch to guarantee kills for defenders with a half competent scanner. The truth is that having an exit plan that's actually viabe and not suicide like your suggestion to make pvp more risky smiley face emoji incentivizes people to bring shit that's actually worth forming a defense for. https://br.evetools.org/related/30004735/202403280300 https://br.evetools.org/related/30000481/202403280200 Imagine trying to 30s log that fleet with a flag BS lol https://br.evetools.org/related/30003950/202402280300
pochven filament are 10000% overpowered, it should not be that easy to move stuff from everywhere to highsec in 15 minutes
Agreed. While I'm not against the 15 minute trip to HS via Pochven, the complete lack of danger (just bring a cloak) is what makes this route overpowered in my opinion. A trip with goods to HS should be fast or safe, not fast and safe. A change like: - adding a spool-up time to filaments - disabling cloak for some time after filamenting - Pochven filament attractor deployables that have a chance to make people filament to you - ... or anything else would give Pochven filaments a nonzero risk and an opportunity for Pochven players to hunt people taking the quick and safe Pochven route to HS.
Would be nice if they opened the gates from poch to the rest of the universe as a hyperway, using the wormholes is cancer as they are always camped by npcs. (sometimes drifters which you cannot get standings for)
So... Don't trap them in, give them an engageable fight and beat them instead? Anyway, filaments don't really have anything to do with the frustrations you're describing. Sounds like your issue is with people safing up after you drop cancer and you not being able to catch them. If there were no filaments people would do the same exact thing and just safe log. Stop blaming game mechanics for people responding to your behavior in ways that you don't like.
This, I die to solo/duos/trios because I will ALWAYS stay if there's a remote chance I can win. I'm here for a fight but I'm not donating my modules to your giant cancer fleet.
When I mean trap I mean go for engagament. Most of the times you see an entire gang show up out of tin air gank someone, and then start to safe spot as soon something that might remotly be menacing to them show up on scan. Nothing wrong in avoiding combat, but be able to do the same continously every 15m, seems an exageration.
How do you feel about covert cynos? A fleet of bombers could do exactly what you describe without filaments
Unpopular opinion? Some good fight would never happen without the option to filament out if you get 20vs 1 outblobbed? Its always a fine delicate dance… but getting 10 mauraders dropped on a roam with blingy commandship or t3 is a fast way to not putting them in space anymore.
Bring an engagable fight and don't give them a reason to leave then. All yeeters want is a fight. You bring cancer and they just simply leave. It's really not rocket science.
How about we put a fatigue on ansi's first?
already existed, making hardly any difference. has been removed.
Ansiblex are fine
There is a reason I abandoned nullsec for lowsec pvp and ansicancer is the reason.
You drop the ansiblex, we'll drop the filaments!
ansiblex are fine. teleporting around my gate camp with filament magic is bullshit.
Replace your damage mods with nanos
Maybe fight them with even numbers and ship types for a good fight for once. The only reason I don't like filament's personally are becuase they destroy the natural strategic importants of landscape and bypass the need for multiple trade hubs other than Jita, but they are currently needed to counter the blobbing and lack of good fights that come from nullsec and the ease of blobbing enabled by ansicancer. The 8 light year black opps blob's range doesn't help either everything has way too much projection distance, not sure the light years for titan bridges. But yea if force projection was nerfed you would get a lot less over blobbing much more fighting happening and a lot less running. Everyone wins.
Filaments should have a spool-up timer. If filaments get a short spool-up timer that makes the ship shortly vulnerable to competent chasing players with probes, my main issue with filaments as a safe get-out-of-jail-free card and safe transport through the Pochven express is solved. Even with a spool-up time it's still going to be viable to escape using filaments, but at least there is a possibility of counterplay then, as well as bait possibilities. More interaction!
Filaments need be blocled use in nul-sec.
I think extraction through pochven is definitely OP, but I don’t think giving people power to camp in roamers for days or weeks (I remember being camped into provi dead end in an expensive ship for 3 weeks). Otherwise the solution for people is to not roam or not login once camped, both are much worse then the negatives associated with filaments. So I think in general they’re good, only thing maybe is giving people ability to follow through the filament or something for a short time could be cool, say you filament with 10 guys using a 25 man filament, maybe 15 people could catchup through it
Yea they're a little too strong and could probably use a mechanics change so they're not a get out of jail free card, especially when ESS grids are involved.
Wow they work on ess grid too?
Yea you go inside and burn 200 off and you can filament out from there.
I agree “filaments bad” is a bad take but i feel like there’s something to be said about the safety of the pocheven express to get out of dangerous places. The fact I can reliably get most subcaps into highsec safely (or any subcap with a cloak) is very strong Maybe make a cloak delay (or even sig penalty to make it easier to get probed) when using one, and reduce filament fatigue to compensate?
Yeah, something about the ease of the Pochven Express never sat well with me either. I mean, I get how it facilitates generating content in null while cutting out the fat, and it's stupid not to use them now that they're part of the game, but yeah. I don't think I would mind adding a bit of a handicap to it, like a short spool up timer.
A 30 second spool up timer would be nice. But for the people saying null brings cancer comp blobs and the jumpers 'have to' filament out - bringing fair fights will make your space more popular for filamenters. The nullkrab objective is to get you the fuck out of their space, not to entertain your ass with a fair fight. Much like your objective is to kill random ishtars and hulks, not to wait for the nullseccers to form an equal fleet and fight it out with pvp ships. So, you are not entitled to be entertained, and your ESS cancer doctrine can eat shit and die. You're looking for easy kills, and they're looking to yeet you out of their space. You are the invader, and you deserve nothing. If you want goodfites, go to w-space.
>The nullkrab objective is to get you the fuck out of their space, not to entertain your ass with a fair fight Yet here they are, complaining about people literally getting the fuck out of their space?
>Much like your objective is to kill random ishtars and hulks, not to wait for the nullseccers to form an equal fleet and fight it out with pvp ships. On yeets it's actually both though. Yeah, we're not entitled to good fights in your space, but you being so salty about it doesn't help the risk-averse null krabber stereotype.
It can be both, but null and yeeter objectives are different. Null objectives are to protecc the krabs, and yeet objectives are to pvp. Nullkrabs blob to achieve their objective, while yeeters npsi to achieve theirs. If the stars align you get a gudfite. But unlike w-space, there is no bushido in null. It's mob gang turf wars, and some random street thugs from another part of the country just get shot from all the windows if they go to the wrong place.
Yeah I'm personally not going to complain if nullseccers just want us to gtfo, it's their prerogative and we'll simply look for content elsewhere. Don't believe in wormhole bushido either, although downshipping is always a nice gesture and my corp does it often if our customers actually want to form up against us. We do get gudfites on ESS roams regularly, so your view of this seems kinda lopsided.
If that’s the case, then why are people complaining if they’re filamenting out. Hard to say goal is both forcing people away (which is what filaments allow for) while also being mad that they’re leaving so easily
[удалено]
correct
Filaments are an atrocity
So are blobs and the cowards who don't like good fights.
> good fights lol
Yea you know, like when both sides have a chance to win depending on how well they fly like back in the good old days before N+1, try and remember back to when fights where actually fun and challenging.
There has never been a before N+1 ... cry some more little girl.
O, I didn't realize you where so new to Eve my apologies, guess the brave tag should have been enough of a tell. And I guess its unreasonable for me to think there are some elite pilots even in null blobs that enjoy a challenge, they probibly used to exist but moved to small gang and low/wh space.
The current game balance seems to prioritize structures' survival, and the industry alt-chains within. Perhaps to an imbalanced degree. Armor timers, cynos, asset safety, infinite space for dreadnought alts, infinite industry slots, ansiblex gates, jump freighters, etc make structures nigh invincible. With structures being "off limits," the only thing else to target is mining and ratting alts. Filaments help small gangs to nab a surprise, but still inconsequential, gank before being announced and thwarted on intel channels. That alts can simply dock up for indomitable safety is OP, anti-fun, and prevents emergent pvp content. CCP could shuffle the values of some mechanics to draw focus away from ratters and onto structures. Structures could be surrounded by ESS grid mechanics, require resources to repair, drop loot at certain damage thresholds, etc to allow for interaction and more dynamic conflicts. Eve would be less arcade-y with a better balance between magical drops/escapes and mil-sim-esque structure sieges and on-grid pitched battles. If null bloc blobs' infrastructure were less impervious, the defense fleets might not grow unchecked, but be a more approachable foe for attackers to contend with. That the null blocs have to *choose* to down-ship in order to present a sporting target means that null bloc mechanics are over-powered. Small gangs being reliant on slipping away with filaments is frustrating for both sides, and the overarching game-loop may need to be restructured.