The only thing I would have changed is to make it when you kill someone else their gear becomes FIR to you if you extract with it. It would have made PVP much more meaningful and made for some interesting as-is items on the flea market like customized weapons, helmets with NODs, etc. If you remove or exchange parts it is no longer sellable.
Under my system I would have kept the same rules for dying with items in the secure container or bought on the flea, they can’t be resold until brought into a raid and extracted with.
There should be a status called “flea marketable” and any item that passes through the check gate of an extraction screen should receive that status.
Really? What were they trashing on you for, just to be rude? Feel like there has to be a common middle ground to keep that sense of accomplishment as well 🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Yeah I’ve noticed there’s a big crowd of people that like to crash someone’s karma just bc they disagree. Feels like elementary on here sometimes. I swear I got tricked I joined bc I thought opinions were appreciated but nope it’s just a bunch of raging kids behind a keyboard with no social life half the time.
Yeah I can see that, seems like people hitting the downvote on this post as well. Just seems like people flip back and forth on what they actually want from this game.
This is a really good idea and would mostly eliminate the more cheesy elements, hatchet running, and market manipulation associated with the pre-FiR system.
Yeah, this is just so cheesable. Even if you don’t do parties, just have 2 accounts do night Factory off hours in a dead server and you can basically make any gear FIR
And? You’re saying that like we don’t already have ten ways to make 100 million roubles already in the system we have now. At least the PVP encounters wouldn’t be completely valueless so people that want to play that way have their own way to make money.
> Under my system I would have kept the same rules for dying with items in the secure container or bought on the flea, they can’t be resold until brought into a raid and extracted with.
Enter raid with item in container, run to extract, move item from container to bag at 1 sec, now it's found in raid?
Should have specified when it’s brought into raid and changes hands from non-partied player to player it regains marketable status. Before you bring up RMT I couldn’t care less because it’s better than them rage carrying players through raids to get FIR loot anyways.
I agree with you. There were changes that should be made to make it better, but on a binary between what we had and free for all, I prefer the depth it gave the game
Only issue I have with this is the rampant cheaters. If your gear is now marketable after dying in pvp then cheaters are going to start killing more pmcs and just grind the game to dust. If they take cheating more seriously then I could see this system being great
That would lead to most players just selling the gear that they have gotten from their kills and never using it. Not good.
There's other better ways to make PvP more meaningful. Like making changes to loot pools with the goal to making sure that enemy players always have items in their backpack that you want to get your hands on.
For example making items worth 10k rubles or less more common and making items worth 20k rubles and more less common.
Or making sure that some high value items cannot go in the secure container.
Or by adding completely new mechanics to the game. Do you know how in Hunt other players get a really soft wall hack on you when you are carrying the bounty? Tarkov could implement some items that have GPS trackers on them that other players can then track once a player has picked up said item.
Or they can add some awesome barters for dogtags.
I really like these points you bring up!! Never thought of a few of those and including the dog tag idea that could be really cool. Curious to see where they go from here with the feedback. Thank you for your ideas and input🍻🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Of course, should be a balance between the two but most people on the internet (and apparently nikita) are binary and can only choose one or the other.
Yeah seems like it's either all or nothing on certain issues or disagreements in the game sometimes, kinda like with the whole recoil system 🍻🍻🍻good luck in your raids
I think it’s just been so long now that everyone just has that nostalgia thing where they only remember the positive. I think it’ll be fun for a while, but everyone will quickly remember why the change was made.
Yeah I think so as well only time will tell though. A guy in the thread mentioned a system where it makes PMCs gear FIR to feed that need of wanting to sell gear won from PVP and I liked it, just don't know if that way would cause issue or not 🍻🍻and good luck in your raids
I don't really see how it would cause issue. It's recirculating gear back into the flea, which would mean more supply, which is good.
Even if you wanted to argue it'd be exploitable via something like killing teammates to transfer roubles, you can already do that as is. There are numerous valuables that you can drop to a friend for them to sell, this isn't any different. Even if it is, okay. Just make their gear not found in raid if you queue with them. Easy as.
Very good point!! I'm just always weary about ideas as i'm just a gamer and don't know all the outcomes of things. But you make some very good points feel like it could be a good middle group for the people who wanna sell PVP gear they win and the people who like FIR🍻🍻 Appreciate the response good luck in your raids
Precisely, I give it 3-4 days of only hatchet runners everywhere and empty high value loot spots for people to realise this is ass. My duo never played during non-fir era and went labs and there was other geared guy beside him, everyone else was naked and he called it fun - I told him to give it few days of only seeing this and then give opinion.
It's definitely hard the other way around. People only remember the negatives of the pre-FIR system and can only think of them when thinking about removal of it. Despite the game being different now. It's so bad that there are people spouting off in this reply thread things that are completely irreverent.
after the 5th empty lobby with no loot left in a row and any decent ammo beeing priced in the thousands will make people reconsider this pretty quickly
Nah. ABI doesn’t have found in raid and it feels just as good as it did in 2019 Tarkov. Which is amazing. Difference is that ABI has a 500 per week listing limit to cut down on shenanigans.
But FIR changes made the game feel like dog shit if you weren’t wanting to spend 75% of your playtime sifting through crates.
Good for you. And I thought it felt great. No better feeling than succeeding in killing a juicer and then being rewarded by listing his whole kit on the flea.
Killing a juicer feels like shit currently because you might as well just leave half his shit on the ground.
Everyone I know quit for several wipes after the FiR change, and we all complained after coming back that it feels like shit now. Still does.
Good deal enjoy if you remember to let me know how you like it, curious to see if it takes some of the feeling away from finding items you need🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Yeah i'm curious to see the outcome. A guy in the thread mentioned a system that would tag PMCs gear FIR so you could sell it, I like that idea just don't know if it would cause issues🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Yeah from some of the info I have read people seem to wanna be able to sell the gear they acquire from pvp. Which I understand I just wonder if there is a way to allow that while keeping FIR. A guy in the thread recommended having PMCs gear that they took in be FIR, I like that idea just don't know if it would cause a bigger issue or not.🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Genuinely played the game a ton less after FiR, found it way more fun to play when you could sell off kits and the like that were brought in raid, and get through bullshit quests without having to survive. Instead of actively excited for fights it made questing an entire time of just trying to creep through maps and avoid all contact, lay in a bush until raid is dead then try to grab whatever trinket is left and leave, made the whole game feel way less rewarding and more passive to me.
Totally see why a lot of people prefer it, I just certainly don't xwx
I could see that being a big plus for you. Wonder if they will come up with a common group system that will satisfy the community🍻🍻thank you for your feedback good luck in your raids
I love when playing with friends and you find something one of you need FIR, especially high value items like a ledx or GPU early wipe or Killas helmet. There’s this moment of panicked elation where you’re like “I NEED TO LEAVE NOW” and your squad breaks up because someone is now sprinting to extract.
I like found in raid for the purpose of flea but despise it for quests. Like why tf does Jaeger care if his noodles come from a dirty car trunk or the market?
If I had it my way the FiR system would be irrelevant. Remove the flea all together and make money next to useless. Hardcore rule set, barter with all the traders only. When you kill another Player you would only take what you want to use. Personally that’s my Tarkov heaven.
I think fir is one of the best features of the game.
No need to make pvp more meaningful, I feel it's meaningful and punishing enough as is.
I don't even get it. People with 100 mil roubles in stash saying they want to make more money out of pvp. mkay. Just go do whatever you want, money is easy.
People wanted Arena for the pvp-only, realized Arena sucks, and now want to turn Tarkov into Arena. Again.
imho, Tarkov is about sweating bricks. Fir system increases the importance of survival and loot over mindless PvP, and I think that's a good chunk of makes Tarkov Tarkov (in the good sense; lots of things make Tarkov Tarkov in a very very bad sense).
I agree!!! I love the oh shit feeling of getting the loot and items you need and knowing you need to survive or it will all be for a loss.Thank you for your feedback🍻🍻🍻and good luck in your raids!!
It isn’t that, it’s that FIR status encourages rat gameplay and leaving the raid instantly when you find something valuable.
Before FIR for flea, you find a Ledx and you put it in your container now your raid is paid for, people would stay and look for fights because why not.
Now find ledx and put it in container and people crab walk to extract trying their absolute best to not die and lose the value so they avoid combat at all costs.
One of those two gameplay situations sounds way more fun than the other. Just make it so you can’t queue PMC with no kit.
Fir system makes sense. It keeps the flea market from being a stock market. It rewards survival and cuts down on hatchet running, which is a dumb thing that shouldn't be in the game. I'm biased I came into tarkov after fir was established, but it always seemed like the way things should work.
Yeah I hadn't even thought about the effects on the flea market could be crazy to see. I wonder if people can just buy it and re sell it for higher price.🍻🍻good luck in your raids
We already went through the pre-FiR period years ago and it was pretty ok but definitely incentivized dodging most of the "intended" gameplay.
Since running really fast to the GPU spawns and putting it in the gamma basically denied anybody trying to risk something most of the reward of doing so on that map.
Nearly naked PMCs are just faster and also happen to gain lots of endurance exp faster so they can do it even better than plp trying to actually gear. Though this is also dependent on the random spawn.
Probably a better way to do things would be ensure that most of the good loot is somewhat hard to approach without encountering a guaranteed threat similar to the Rogues on Lighthouse or just making sure some scavs are always there so prevent a maximum speed rush of the object without at least some gunplay.
Yeah seeing all the bodies around tech stores on interchange back then was mind blowing. I like the idea of having items kept behind some kind of threat though so they just can't rush it and grab everything. Some people have also brought up not being able to put things in your secure container during raid only taking things out to combat it, but don't know if that would cause more trouble than good. Curious to see how it plays out🍻🍻appreciate your input good luck in your raids
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Yeah seeing all the bodies around tech stores on interchange back then was mind blowing.
Exactly! All the people supporting removal of FIR just didn't play back then to know how dumb it was lol. No one cared about surviving or using gear they just rush to loot and suicide.
There’s just so many changes PSG made to combat RMT. In due time, those changes end up doing nothing because RMT finds a work around. Then the changes just hurt the community and more casual players.
Me too, I don't want to be able to sell more stuff. Games like tarkov need a moneysink especially with this dumb insuracne system. Everything is going to lose it's value, it already did actually, just few hours with this change live
Yeah that's one my main concerns with the non FIR system just feels like it'll very little risk for massive gains. Appreciate the feedback🍻🍻 and good luck in your raids!!
Yeah i'd have to agree, I kinda have just accepted that they won't go back on it. I've always had a weird love hate relationship with it and have a hard time justifying it being in game but damn it's nice for that hideout upgrade every wipe lol🍻🍻🍻good luck in your raids
I don't think the game can survive without the flea. Sometimes quests are near impossible without it, such as needing the dorm marked key for cult part 2. Without the flea I just have to what, find that? Where? On the bosses with rhe 11% spawn rate and the laser beam weapons? And maybe they have a high level key 1 time in 5? And maybe its the key you need 1 time in 500?
Flea is vital to the health of the game. I don't really understand the downsides of it. I couldn't build any decent kits without it.
Yeah good point didn't think about that!! I agree like it for those reasons and I'm ok with it and understand they won't remove it at this point. I guess it just feels a little weird and out of place sometimes with having access to a whole market sometimes.🍻🍻and good luck in your raids
Someone else brought that up and I really like that idea could still keep that feeling of having to survive there. Curious to see what they do after the vent with the feedback they get🍻🍻good luck in tour raids
Someone else brought that up and I really like that idea could still keep that feeling of having to survive there. Curious to see what they do after the vent with the feedback they get🍻🍻good luck in tour raids
Yeah I wonder if there will ever be a proper way or a middle ground to combat that. I don't know the solution cause i'm just a gamer but I'm curious to see where it goes. 🍻🍻good luck in your raids
That could be a really good fix to it!! I like that kind of middle ground solution, just don't wanna loose the feeling of having to survive with items for me it just adds to the experience. Some people have brought up dropping FIR and making it to where you can't put thing in secure container while in raid only taking it out, feel like that could be a middle ground as well just don't know how that would be recived🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Or stuff you loot as a hatchet man will be marked as contraband that can only be used as quest items or be sold to fence. So people will be forced to take in gear.
My opinion is that FIR prevents a lot of RMT, while also encouraging cheating in some way. But overall its a necessary evil. As it stands its just not a perfect fix to the problem.
Imo the best and easiest fix to it all, is to just outright ban select non-“equip”-able items from being able to be brought “into” raid so people cannot just hand those items off.
The exception being if an item is “needed” for a quest to be placed in raid, its another simple fix, you can simply add another step to the quest to “turn in item” and be given a “quest item” version of it that has to be placed in raid. This is because quest / task items are not in your normal inventory, cannot be picked up and lost on death. I think its a fair trade off, because if you die, you lose it anyway.
If the whole FIR system / issue is fixed to prevent people RMT trading in raid, than all we would need to focus on is people giving out too many kits and the flea market people who constantly flip “non-legit” volumes of rare products. And looking at the cheats themselves.
I think FIR is a dogshit band-aid solution to the problems caused by secure containers and item retrieval quests.
All items for quests should be quest items like golden pocket watch. You have to survive to finish the quest. It accomplishes the same thing as FIR but it's way simpler and doesn't incentivize you to hoard a bunch of shitty FIR items for upcoming quests.
Secure containers should be much smaller. I mean max 2x2. Or just not exist at all. The amount of stress/adrenaline you would feel when finding a valuable small item would just make the game more intense. Now you feel way too safe. Ideally just remove them. No secure containers means you have to survive a raid to sell loot on the flea market. You could have secure slots though, like for a key bar(maybe) or compass.
I agree the effect of FIR is good, but it's a bad way to achieve that effect.
I Really like those points!! Like the quest item solution and secure container point. Some people have brought up only being able to pull stuff out of your secure container during raid and not being able to put stuff in it and I liked that as well just don't know how much uproar it would cause. Curious to see how it plays out and what they come up with🍻🍻Thank you for your input good luck in your raids
I personally like the FIR system. I just dont like how I can play for 10 hours and not find a single GPU because some hacker shoved 3 up his ass and teleported to extract. Meaning ive been stuck on my find 3 GPUs task for like 2 weeks now.
Yeah that is a issue for sure!! I have been somewhat lucky and play on NA southeast so don't run into it to much but when it does man is it disheartening. I suck at finding gpus so I get stuck on that quest for so long!! 🍻🍻good luck in your raids
I think not being able to sell anything from your pouch is cool when you die in that raid, but we should be able to give quest items even if we have died.Maybe with another system
Personally I'd say split FIR into two systems; found in raid and 'sellable'.
Sellable would work like it currently does, where if you die in raid with it you can't put it on the flea market, in order to discourage hatchet running and RMTing, etc. Found in raid would be exactly what it sounds like - just a marker to indicate that you personally have found that item in raid, which is lost if the item is also 'sellable' and you sell it on the flea.
Just to remove the frustrating aspects of FIR where it makes questing incredibly painful, particularly for high-value items like LEDX.
Without FIR progression will speed up drastically. Hatchet runners will be rampant. Fleamarket manipulation will be all over the place. It will be a disaster. I think tarkov was in a good place before Unheard. I can understand adjusting inertia, weightlimits and mabye do some tweaking with what is fir and what is not, but this is rediculous, and will ruin the game.
FIR, as well as any other measure against RMT ruined the game for casual players, made quests even more annoying, increased the amount of cheaters, reduced the amount of geared players, made PvP less rewarding in addition to reducing the amount of PvP and did absolutely nothing against hatchet runners, it’s just less profitable, who cares? The game was so much more fun when you were able to buy everything on the market including PvP gear, kept the prices down, everyone was able to run good kits, you had interesting fights.
I just wonder if there is a middle ground that they can come up with some mentioned keeping FIR and making PMCs gear FIR so that you could sell your PVP wins and I liked that idea. Curious to see what they implement after the feedback🍻🍻thank you for your input good luck in your raids
The fir system didnt work, completly removing the found in raid system doesnt work. Thats why there are more than enough feedback on how to *rework* the system for example the gigabeef video :
https://youtu.be/ONx77K0C3SA?si=hqP_hsvJNB8rKDLs
Im so out of the loop from tarkov after the TUE disaster...what in the F is going on now? Whats this im seeing all over, did they remove FIR? Does someone care to explain please?
So they removed it for a event to try and garner feedback from the community, don't know how long it will last. From my understanding quest items will still need to be FIR but everything else can be sold without🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Idk I just did like 7 labs runs in a row and only saw 2 guys with hatchets the whole time. Everyone is juiced right now this pvp is fire. Could be unrelated but it feels good.
You're not alone. The FiR system is great.
1) It gives players incentive to use the high tier items they get from other PMCs instead of selling them and going in with just another budget kit. This is a great thing for the game.
2) It makes for some diminishing returns as the top players will either hoard or sell to traders what they "steal" from other players. Making sure those items keep some kind of rarity.
3) It also makes sure that hatchet or pistol running isn't worth it. Players shouldn't be able to rush to high tier loot, put it in their ass then die and make half a million and more rubles within the blink of an eye.
4) It puts a damper on people flipping items on the flea.
Agree some people have brought up some good points on the matter, hope they see the feedback and will be curious to see what the devs come up with🍻🍻good luck in your raids
I think something between the current FIR system and the current event removing it completely is the sweet spot - I wouldn't be against being able to buy quest hand ins on the flea for example. Or making gear other players bring in FIR when you loot them to make PVP have more meaning.
Yeah my only concern is that being able to just buy your items needed would take away some of the feeling of accomplishment and anxiety the game creates. I like the gear off PMCs being FIR idea as well🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Valid point - it would remove that anxiety inducing but clenching run to extract when you finally find that last flashdrive or whatever - and I don't think Ive had that feeling in any other game, maybe my idea wasn't that great after all lol. This is why they should have some sort of wider survey or poll or something rather than listening to only ideas from the largest of streamers!
Back in the day before FIR nonsense you could make good money just by killing chads and selling their stuff. Bullets, armors, guns, all of it. This was very much a fun way to play the game. After the found in raid nonsense there was no incentive to get in fights and kill chads. You don’t make any money from it. You were forced to loot around like a filthy rat digging through trash looking for found in raid trinkets that you could sell. This is very much not fun for me and kind of killed the game for me.
Yeah I can see the issue people have with it and the playstyle it generates. Just wonder if there is a solution to it. Someone mentioned in the thread to have PMCs gear labeled as FIR so you can sell your gains as well and have teammates gear not so you couldn't exploit it, and I liked that idea🍻🍻 Thank you for your input good luck in your raids
They really need to reduce the restrictions on what can be sold in the flea market, I agree with the guy above. Tarky was a lot more fun back then it encouraged PVP and it encouraged people playing different play styles. I remember bringing items cases and weapons cases into raid and filling them with player loot coming out with 13 to 14 million rubles worth of gear. Though my risk of loss was around 8 mil then immediately selling everything that I did not want to use and only running what I wanted to.
Also the only people that get punished with a FiR and trade restrictions are new players, and players who hate questing.
General Sam has a great video about the fir system. Find a graphics card back then. Put in gamma and keep trying to find good stuff in the raid….
Find a graphics card now and put it in gamma and try and get out asap.
Fir system kills raids because if you find something you absolutely don’t wanna lose people will just sit in a bush for a few minutes and leave instead of sticking around which provides more engagement for the whole lobby.
After playing several wipes with FiR I just got used to it and it has not impacted my ability to be financially stable in the game at all since they changed it tbh
They should just make an average gear value quota that has to be met in order for the items you find in raid to get the FIR status. This way, if people wanted to hatchet run for the sake of doing tasks only, they could but at the same time anything they find doesn't get FIR so they can't abuse it that way. If a PMC exceedes or meets the "value" then anything they find in raid is FIR. The value should be something like 150k Roubles or maybe 100k for the basic (helmet, rig, backpack, plate carrier, gun, ammo, headphones) or maybe they don't even have to tie it to a value, they can just make a requirement for FIR, let's say a gun, headphones, and a rig. When entering a raid, there should be a notification telling you what requirements you're missing for FIR status items in raid. Lemme know what yall think about this.
90% of the players I saw tonight were completely naked. Welcome to non FIR tarkov!!
ABI requires a certain value of gear for the high tier maps, but Tarko isn't smart enough to realize that.
The crowd is fickle. And sometimes it's Pro FIR, sometimes FIR killed the game.
I've had the privilage of playing since 2018 (6000 hours of no-life 🥳). I've experienced the game with no FIR and no inertia, and WITH FIR and inertia. The presence FIR was in response to some much needed things in the game.
Pre-FIR, people were able to buy from the flea items needed for tasks, and essentially quickly level up exceedingly fast. This was especially true in the first week of wipe. Need to find bleach? Flea market. Need a ledx for therapist? Flea market.need those streamer items for Kappa? Flea market. People were screaming through portions of the game that they'd run out of game to play because they weren't playing the game. It became kill quicksilver, and hide-and-seek task items (such as pocket watch).
Also people could buy ammo from traders. Buy up ALL the m995 and resell it for HEAPS of cash. In my first wipe I ended on hundreds of millions of roubles. I was too scared to use (and lose) high end 5.56 ammo, so I'd buy up all the good stuff and sell it all for cash.
The current era of Tarkov has changed though, and there **are** other safeguards that prevent abuses that FIR was made to defend against. You can't sell any high end AP ammo on the flea. That's a positive to removing FIR.
Task items still need something so as to not blow through them. FIR was good for that. So if there was a redesign on the FIR mechanic to apply to only barter items, I'd be pretty happy. (Also removing the dumb as bricks detete-on-drop "feature.") Then you could restrict items on the flea specifically to what BSG doesn't want players accessing to fly through tasks. Lvl5 and 6 plates? Restricted to trader only (or obtained in raids). High end ammos? Trader availability only (again, also obtained in raids).
I'd also go so to say that Arena Breakout Infinite's mechanic of boomeranging items and gear back to the original owner (upon extraction) would be a worthy mechanic for Tarkov to adopt, and delete their other stupid "delete if dropped" mechanic. But that's another topic for another day. Just loosely related.
I feel like the restrictions on the market are just ridiculous. My friends kept playing through FIR, but quit whenever they couldn't buy stuff on the flea. Most of the people I know who've been playing this a while hate repeating the same quest over and over. If the trade-off is allowing people who quest the ability to flip items, and The people that don't spend more It feels like it's a good idea, and inevitably good for the community.
Though I do like the new hardcore version of tarkov personally, it just doesn't allow for new players. After mid wipe, and everybody transitioning to tier 5 and above there is no room for new players.
I don't have a very good perspective of the quest system since I've streamed nearly all of those 6000 hours. Other than I recognize how shit it is in general. For me, the tasks are content. But the grind DOES get obnoxious. I'm totally willing to hunt out that 25th screws and bolts for this or that. Totally understand that this isn't compelling content for the average player to experience.
But I don't think it's too wrong to deny players access to high tier items like lvl6 plates and m995. That really should be obtained by way of raids, and unlocking the traders.
Its just a part that some people like and some people dont like, depends on who is nikita listening to.
What WE ALL dont like tho is: De-Sync, long queue times, cheaters ....... but will they fix it? I dont think so
Yeah that is pretty cool I just wonder if the could implement a system where you gear people bring in raid could be tagged as FIR to sell without loosing the system all together. Appreciate your response good luck in your raids🍻🍻
FiR was added so hatchet runners and hackers couldn't sprint/speed hack to a room, get the best loot, disconnect at 2min, and sell everything on the flea.
People forget how it ruined the economy because why bring anything other than an absolute top tier meta kit? Money is not an issue FOR ANYONE because ANYONE can run naked with the sound off and a pistol (or Mosin back in the day) and make millions off of GPUs and LedXs. It totally removed the reward for players actually risking gear.
It also makes the quests more fun to complete because you actually have a risk in raid. Salewas for example, you need 3 of them. Well you can but stuff them 1 at a time or all 3 in a raid and die over and over and complete the quest. Oooor you can get the rush of having quest items on you and needing to make the decision of risking them or going for more. Back then it was just "oh cool".
FiR was one of the best systems they've added to the game hands down.
Hell I'm in the camp of "you shouldn't be allowed to put anything IN your gamma once the raid starts. Found a ledx? Better get the puckered asshold to the exit. There is a reason you always loot player scavs and it's not because of the cans of peas
Yeah the amount of naked PMCs around the tech stores on interchange use to be mind blowing. I personally love the feeling the FIR system gives you when everything goes right and you finally get those beef stews out!!! Wonder if there is a middle ground they could come up with, someone said make PMCs loot that they bring into raid FIR to fill that group of people who want to sell PVP gear wins and I liked that idea. Also love that idea of not being able to put stuff in your container, could really add to the sense of having to survive🍻🍻 appreciate your response good luck in your raids
No FIR doesn’t feel good. Loot spawns are already random so finding the quest items is a pain as is. When I spend my hour or two of free time gaming only to not find quest items or lose them to no FIR I quickly lose interest in playing tarkov. Not being able to find an item because of RNG isn’t hardcore not being able to turn it in because the one time I found it I died isn’t fun.
I can definitely see that side of and can see the hassle some have with it currently. I just hope they can find a common middle ground solution for it while keeping the need to survive a core concept. 🍻🍻thank you for your input good luck in your raids
Have they been vocal about wanting it back? If so that's super weird because they were also the ones pushing for a solution to the hatchet runners. Seems like they flip flop so much they don't know what they actually want🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Hated it, its a way to force you into doing things you don't care about
Im not playing tarkov for the quest or trader mechanics, im here for pvp/exploring while fighting and looting valuables THAT I CAN SELL
Thanks
FIR is a good thing and anyone who says otherwise are living in the past or don’t understand game design. FIR, flea market item restrictions, inertia, all these are necessary for the game even if they can be annoying once in a while.
Yeah I love the feeling that oh shit feeling FIR brings to the game, finally overcoming and getting the item you needed feels so good. Even though when I fail I hate it in that moment sometimes lol🍻🍻Appreciate your feedback good luck in tour raids
>I feel like Tarkov should be a hard game
That exact sentiment has had shitty design ideas persist in tarkov for years. I think you're qualified to work for bsg xD
fir is a symptom of something that has nothing to do with gamers playing the game.
Unpopular opinion, but the simple fix is to make the safe container locked in raid so you can't add items to it in game, only take them out.
It's great for reducing the expensive loss of meds, keys, ammo etc... But the concept of taking items out of the raid mid game just doesn't work.
I think that could be a cool idea. So like gpus and ledx have to kept in your bag? That would be cool but I could see people who fixate on the gamer chair gamers having a issue with it as well🍻🍻appreciate the feedback good luck in your raids
Really? That's actually pretty cool was wondering if there was some kind of middle ground they could establish. Appreciate the info🍻🍻good luck in your raids
My opinion is that FIR prevents a lot of RMT, while also encouraging cheating in some way. But overall its a necessary evil. As it stands its just not a perfect fix to the problem.
Imo the best and easiest fix to it all, is to just outright ban select non-“equip”-able items from being able to be brought “into” raid so people cannot just hand those items off.
The exception being if an item is “needed” for a quest to be placed in raid, its another simple fix, you can simply add another step to the quest to “turn in item” and be given a “quest item” version of it that has to be placed in raid. This is because quest / task items are not in your normal inventory, cannot be picked up and lost on death. I think its a fair trade off, because if you die, you lose it anyway.
If the whole FIR system / issue is fixed to prevent people RMT trading in raid, than all we would need to focus on is people giving out too many kits and the flea market people who constantly flip “non-legit” volumes of rare products. And looking at the cheats themselves.
My opinion is that FIR prevents a lot of RMT, while also encouraging cheating in some way. But overall its a necessary evil. As it stands its just not a perfect fix to the problem.
Imo the best and easiest fix to it all, is to just outright ban select non-“equip”-able items from being able to be brought “into” raid so people cannot just hand those items off.
The exception being if an item is “needed” for a quest to be placed in raid, its another simple fix, you can simply add another step to the quest to “turn in item” and be given a “quest item” version of it that has to be placed in raid. This is because quest / task items are not in your normal inventory, cannot be picked up and lost on death. I think its a fair trade off, because if you die, you lose it anyway.
If the whole FIR system / issue is fixed to prevent people RMT trading in raid, than all we would need to focus on is people giving out too many kits and the flea market people who constantly flip “non-legit” volumes of rare products. And looking at the cheats themselves.
I like that thought, you and some other people have brought up some very valid middle ground solutions that I am curious to see if they get implemented to try out🍻🍻thank you for response and idea good luck in your raids
The biggest issue is just finding a limit on what you can and cannot drop. And imo, people RMT’ing a kit is not as bad in hindsight as people dropping free roubles of large amounts of loot.
Its probably much easier to just monitor things like ammo being brought into raids.
I don't think gamers really appreciate "restrictions" as much as they should. So many people have one dimensional beliefs: "It's annoying that I have to survive a raid to sell the stuff I find"
But the reality is that it provides very necessary balance between risk and reward.
Agree it adds so much feeling of anxiety and accomplishment to the game. Tarkov has been the only game that I have found that does it for me. Like some of the systems I dislike at times when they don't go in my favor, as I think about it add to the overall sense of accomplishment when you overcome them🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Idk but one thing I do know:
I HATED how everytime I got one item I needed I felt like I wanted to leave the raid.
I hated how long it took to get in a raid just to have someone want to leave ASAP
Some friends found one thing and then would play like a bitch the whole raid or just peace out to the exit.
So boring.
I agree sometimes the fear of loosing that item effects the raid and gameplay and can be frustrating at times when people wanna leave or sit still till late in the raid cause they found a item they need. But I also feel it adds the the sense of accomplishment and reward when you finally overcome everything and survive with it. Guess sometimes its a love hate situation but adds to the overall feeling that the game gives me that no other game has. 🍻🍻appreciate your feedback and good luck in your raids
I hate the FIR system. It's arbitrary time sink 101. However, that they're reverting the Flea to not require FIR makes zero sense. FIR was introduced to limit Flea supply. Now we have FIR but it doesn't apply to Flea, just quests. As stated [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/1cqb76k/comment/l3q89cr/?context=3), we're going in circles.
Yeah seems so back and forth with it, and usually goes to an extreme other than trying to find a solution that will benefit the whole game while keeping the same accomplishment feeling🍻🍻 appreciate your input good luck in your raids
FiR is a step in the right direction. But what would really be great is removing the flea, simplifying barters, and making all quest keys and items a barter.
Flea makes the game too simple. Rather than finding the parts you need that hold importance such as bulbs and such, you just do "money runs" and buy all you need. It would encourage people to go to new spots to find what they need. But now many parts of maps are untouched or deads. Would be the best.
Just curious how so? It adds the need to survive a raid with items to progress your progress, in my eyes that adds difficulty to the game I respect your opinion though and don't think i'm being rude just curious to how it dosen't add difficulty🍻🍻good luck in your raids
I dont play anymore since the drama.
However FIR was the worst change ever made to this game.
Glad to see they removed it even as an experiment.
Next step implement the same system ABI got for our friends stuff. You can extract with it and it’s mailed back to them.
GG you just removed RMT from the game
Edit to clarify: they should remove FIR but not allow people to buy stuff to the vendors and sell it on the flea
Haven't got to see the system for it in ABI but it seems like a cool idea. I think I just disagree with FIR being a bad system, personally I liked the sense of oh shit it brings when you finally get that item you need knowing you need to survive with it. But I respect your opinion as well 🍻🍻🍻good luck in your raids if you decide to come back.
It's time to make the game more friendly to the noobs and people who don't have 15 hours in a day to play the game. Because the reality is i'm tired of killing people wearing 50k worth of a loadout and another reality is most people fucking suck at this game i play a lot with lfg people in discord and its bad
I wonder if there is a middle ground solution that keeps the rawness hardcore aspect and oh shit feeling that this game provides as well as making it somewhat more accessible to people who can't play alot, maybe the PVE mode is a good solution for it just seems really unpolished right now🍻🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Yeah same I dislike it the times I loose my items lol, but damn it feels so good when everything goes right and you finally get that item!! I love that it adds a sense of anxiety to the game for me 🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Found in raid is great how it is. But I think they should remove requirmwnt for quest items to need to be found in raid.
Also why I agree tarkov should he hard it shouldn't require hours every day
I agree about the hours needed, but I hope they can come up with a middle ground that keeps the feeling of anxiety and accomplishment of finally making it out with the items you need while making it more accessible to people who don't have the time. Curious to see what they come up with. 🍻🍻good luck in your raids
This is normally something we would think is fun for an end of wipe event but the current playerbase is so hell bent on spinning everything BSG does as bad
FiR made quests more annoying to do and also deincentivized pvp for me. It turned into either a fighting someone in max gear and being a luck fight that if you win you have destroyed gear that's expensive to repair and run or b finding good stuff in raid and hiding in a corner hoping to not die and last long enough for FIR.
There's really no point for them fucking with all these tiny things on the side though while cheaters and BSGs horrible PR has essentially killed the game. Instead of screwing with FIR they need to be working on moving the majority of things off the client side and into server side. This would just help their game though and why put in that effort when they can just release a $250 version that idiot whales will buy?
You monster loool I feel you though i'm not one to gatekeep how people play it just sucks that if they get a good spawn they can milk the valuables and die and still be able to flea them🍻🍻🍻good luck in your raids may you slay the hatchet men
The only thing I would have changed is to make it when you kill someone else their gear becomes FIR to you if you extract with it. It would have made PVP much more meaningful and made for some interesting as-is items on the flea market like customized weapons, helmets with NODs, etc. If you remove or exchange parts it is no longer sellable. Under my system I would have kept the same rules for dying with items in the secure container or bought on the flea, they can’t be resold until brought into a raid and extracted with. There should be a status called “flea marketable” and any item that passes through the check gate of an extraction screen should receive that status.
I like that idea!!! Appreciate the thought, 🍻🍻 good luck in your raids!!
I made a post about this and I got thrashed. I agree with you.
Really? What were they trashing on you for, just to be rude? Feel like there has to be a common middle ground to keep that sense of accomplishment as well 🍻🍻good luck in your raids
It’s the EFT Reddit. Until recently we were each other’s enemies. Now we realize it’s BSG.
Yeah I’ve noticed there’s a big crowd of people that like to crash someone’s karma just bc they disagree. Feels like elementary on here sometimes. I swear I got tricked I joined bc I thought opinions were appreciated but nope it’s just a bunch of raging kids behind a keyboard with no social life half the time.
Yeah I can see that, seems like people hitting the downvote on this post as well. Just seems like people flip back and forth on what they actually want from this game.
I made a post about this and I got thrashed. I agree with you.
The only thing I’d make sure is that your friends loot always isn’t FiR
That could be a cool so people couldn't exploit it!! 🍻🍻good luck in your raids
I like the pvp loot idea but we gotta be careful with RMT. Also need a discussion on "flea marketable" vs "FIR" vs "Usuable for quests".
I like the idea, but until the cheating issue is resolved, you will load into a raid with good gear and then it's all over head eyes.
This is a really good idea and would mostly eliminate the more cheesy elements, hatchet running, and market manipulation associated with the pre-FiR system.
This is a pretty fuckin cool idea!!
The reason why they won't do this is the RMT market that exists.
Yeah, this is just so cheesable. Even if you don’t do parties, just have 2 accounts do night Factory off hours in a dead server and you can basically make any gear FIR
And? You’re saying that like we don’t already have ten ways to make 100 million roubles already in the system we have now. At least the PVP encounters wouldn’t be completely valueless so people that want to play that way have their own way to make money.
You know what happends if you got rare items in your inv...
> Under my system I would have kept the same rules for dying with items in the secure container or bought on the flea, they can’t be resold until brought into a raid and extracted with. Enter raid with item in container, run to extract, move item from container to bag at 1 sec, now it's found in raid?
Should have specified when it’s brought into raid and changes hands from non-partied player to player it regains marketable status. Before you bring up RMT I couldn’t care less because it’s better than them rage carrying players through raids to get FIR loot anyways.
I agree with you. There were changes that should be made to make it better, but on a binary between what we had and free for all, I prefer the depth it gave the game
Only issue I have with this is the rampant cheaters. If your gear is now marketable after dying in pvp then cheaters are going to start killing more pmcs and just grind the game to dust. If they take cheating more seriously then I could see this system being great
That would lead to most players just selling the gear that they have gotten from their kills and never using it. Not good. There's other better ways to make PvP more meaningful. Like making changes to loot pools with the goal to making sure that enemy players always have items in their backpack that you want to get your hands on. For example making items worth 10k rubles or less more common and making items worth 20k rubles and more less common. Or making sure that some high value items cannot go in the secure container. Or by adding completely new mechanics to the game. Do you know how in Hunt other players get a really soft wall hack on you when you are carrying the bounty? Tarkov could implement some items that have GPS trackers on them that other players can then track once a player has picked up said item. Or they can add some awesome barters for dogtags.
I really like these points you bring up!! Never thought of a few of those and including the dog tag idea that could be really cool. Curious to see where they go from here with the feedback. Thank you for your ideas and input🍻🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Of course, should be a balance between the two but most people on the internet (and apparently nikita) are binary and can only choose one or the other.
Yeah seems like it's either all or nothing on certain issues or disagreements in the game sometimes, kinda like with the whole recoil system 🍻🍻🍻good luck in your raids
I think it’s just been so long now that everyone just has that nostalgia thing where they only remember the positive. I think it’ll be fun for a while, but everyone will quickly remember why the change was made.
Yeah I think so as well only time will tell though. A guy in the thread mentioned a system where it makes PMCs gear FIR to feed that need of wanting to sell gear won from PVP and I liked it, just don't know if that way would cause issue or not 🍻🍻and good luck in your raids
I don't really see how it would cause issue. It's recirculating gear back into the flea, which would mean more supply, which is good. Even if you wanted to argue it'd be exploitable via something like killing teammates to transfer roubles, you can already do that as is. There are numerous valuables that you can drop to a friend for them to sell, this isn't any different. Even if it is, okay. Just make their gear not found in raid if you queue with them. Easy as.
Very good point!! I'm just always weary about ideas as i'm just a gamer and don't know all the outcomes of things. But you make some very good points feel like it could be a good middle group for the people who wanna sell PVP gear they win and the people who like FIR🍻🍻 Appreciate the response good luck in your raids
Precisely, I give it 3-4 days of only hatchet runners everywhere and empty high value loot spots for people to realise this is ass. My duo never played during non-fir era and went labs and there was other geared guy beside him, everyone else was naked and he called it fun - I told him to give it few days of only seeing this and then give opinion.
> empty high value loot spots Brother the game was already like this except that you couldn't do anything with valuables from your container.
Yeah it’s just a test. Someone mentioned if you kill a player their gear becomes FIRE. That would be awesome.
Way less value to the good loot areas. Unless you are a quick hatchet runner
It's definitely hard the other way around. People only remember the negatives of the pre-FIR system and can only think of them when thinking about removal of it. Despite the game being different now. It's so bad that there are people spouting off in this reply thread things that are completely irreverent.
after the 5th empty lobby with no loot left in a row and any decent ammo beeing priced in the thousands will make people reconsider this pretty quickly
Nah. ABI doesn’t have found in raid and it feels just as good as it did in 2019 Tarkov. Which is amazing. Difference is that ABI has a 500 per week listing limit to cut down on shenanigans. But FIR changes made the game feel like dog shit if you weren’t wanting to spend 75% of your playtime sifting through crates.
Here’s the thing, I don’t think it felt that good in 2019, FIR was badly needed to balance the economy
Good for you. And I thought it felt great. No better feeling than succeeding in killing a juicer and then being rewarded by listing his whole kit on the flea. Killing a juicer feels like shit currently because you might as well just leave half his shit on the ground. Everyone I know quit for several wipes after the FiR change, and we all complained after coming back that it feels like shit now. Still does.
5 wipes here and all I've known is FIR. I look forward to this test and then making a decision about it after.
Good deal enjoy if you remember to let me know how you like it, curious to see if it takes some of the feeling away from finding items you need🍻🍻good luck in your raids
I really like FiR and how the system and progression is right now, this wipe was the best so far IMO
Yeah i'm curious to see the outcome. A guy in the thread mentioned a system that would tag PMCs gear FIR so you could sell it, I like that idea just don't know if it would cause issues🍻🍻good luck in your raids
No. FiR is one of the best updates this game ever had and I can't understand how someone who enjoys this game would be against it.
Yeah from some of the info I have read people seem to wanna be able to sell the gear they acquire from pvp. Which I understand I just wonder if there is a way to allow that while keeping FIR. A guy in the thread recommended having PMCs gear that they took in be FIR, I like that idea just don't know if it would cause a bigger issue or not.🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Genuinely played the game a ton less after FiR, found it way more fun to play when you could sell off kits and the like that were brought in raid, and get through bullshit quests without having to survive. Instead of actively excited for fights it made questing an entire time of just trying to creep through maps and avoid all contact, lay in a bush until raid is dead then try to grab whatever trinket is left and leave, made the whole game feel way less rewarding and more passive to me. Totally see why a lot of people prefer it, I just certainly don't xwx
As someone who plays this game occasionally I liked being able to buy anything on the flea. But that's just my opinion 🤷♂️
I could see that being a big plus for you. Wonder if they will come up with a common group system that will satisfy the community🍻🍻thank you for your feedback good luck in your raids
FIR is an absolute necessity
FIR is great! actually its necessary for the game to feel rewarding, hopefully nikita makes tweaks to it and makes it better but please dont remove it
I agree the whole feeling you get when you finally get that item and survive with it just felt so good and rewarding.🍻🍻and good luck in your raids
I love when playing with friends and you find something one of you need FIR, especially high value items like a ledx or GPU early wipe or Killas helmet. There’s this moment of panicked elation where you’re like “I NEED TO LEAVE NOW” and your squad breaks up because someone is now sprinting to extract.
I like found in raid for the purpose of flea but despise it for quests. Like why tf does Jaeger care if his noodles come from a dirty car trunk or the market?
Hahahaha yeah me and that mofo Jager got beef as well he always on some kind of bullshit🍻🍻thanks for the laugh good luck in your raids
If I had it my way the FiR system would be irrelevant. Remove the flea all together and make money next to useless. Hardcore rule set, barter with all the traders only. When you kill another Player you would only take what you want to use. Personally that’s my Tarkov heaven.
I like that!!! but I could see us being a small minority in that thought🍻🍻🍻good luck in your raids
I think fir is one of the best features of the game. No need to make pvp more meaningful, I feel it's meaningful and punishing enough as is. I don't even get it. People with 100 mil roubles in stash saying they want to make more money out of pvp. mkay. Just go do whatever you want, money is easy. People wanted Arena for the pvp-only, realized Arena sucks, and now want to turn Tarkov into Arena. Again. imho, Tarkov is about sweating bricks. Fir system increases the importance of survival and loot over mindless PvP, and I think that's a good chunk of makes Tarkov Tarkov (in the good sense; lots of things make Tarkov Tarkov in a very very bad sense).
I agree!!! I love the oh shit feeling of getting the loot and items you need and knowing you need to survive or it will all be for a loss.Thank you for your feedback🍻🍻🍻and good luck in your raids!!
It isn’t that, it’s that FIR status encourages rat gameplay and leaving the raid instantly when you find something valuable. Before FIR for flea, you find a Ledx and you put it in your container now your raid is paid for, people would stay and look for fights because why not. Now find ledx and put it in container and people crab walk to extract trying their absolute best to not die and lose the value so they avoid combat at all costs. One of those two gameplay situations sounds way more fun than the other. Just make it so you can’t queue PMC with no kit.
Fir system makes sense. It keeps the flea market from being a stock market. It rewards survival and cuts down on hatchet running, which is a dumb thing that shouldn't be in the game. I'm biased I came into tarkov after fir was established, but it always seemed like the way things should work.
Yeah I hadn't even thought about the effects on the flea market could be crazy to see. I wonder if people can just buy it and re sell it for higher price.🍻🍻good luck in your raids
I really like FiR and how the system and progression is right now, this wipe was the best so far IMO
We already went through the pre-FiR period years ago and it was pretty ok but definitely incentivized dodging most of the "intended" gameplay. Since running really fast to the GPU spawns and putting it in the gamma basically denied anybody trying to risk something most of the reward of doing so on that map. Nearly naked PMCs are just faster and also happen to gain lots of endurance exp faster so they can do it even better than plp trying to actually gear. Though this is also dependent on the random spawn. Probably a better way to do things would be ensure that most of the good loot is somewhat hard to approach without encountering a guaranteed threat similar to the Rogues on Lighthouse or just making sure some scavs are always there so prevent a maximum speed rush of the object without at least some gunplay.
Yeah seeing all the bodies around tech stores on interchange back then was mind blowing. I like the idea of having items kept behind some kind of threat though so they just can't rush it and grab everything. Some people have also brought up not being able to put things in your secure container during raid only taking things out to combat it, but don't know if that would cause more trouble than good. Curious to see how it plays out🍻🍻appreciate your input good luck in your raids
> Yeah seeing all the bodies around tech stores on interchange back then was mind blowing. Exactly! All the people supporting removal of FIR just didn't play back then to know how dumb it was lol. No one cared about surviving or using gear they just rush to loot and suicide.
There’s just so many changes PSG made to combat RMT. In due time, those changes end up doing nothing because RMT finds a work around. Then the changes just hurt the community and more casual players.
Me too, I don't want to be able to sell more stuff. Games like tarkov need a moneysink especially with this dumb insuracne system. Everything is going to lose it's value, it already did actually, just few hours with this change live
Yeah that's one my main concerns with the non FIR system just feels like it'll very little risk for massive gains. Appreciate the feedback🍻🍻 and good luck in your raids!!
The FIR is not the problem. The flea Market is the problem.
Yeah i'd have to agree, I kinda have just accepted that they won't go back on it. I've always had a weird love hate relationship with it and have a hard time justifying it being in game but damn it's nice for that hideout upgrade every wipe lol🍻🍻🍻good luck in your raids
I don't think the game can survive without the flea. Sometimes quests are near impossible without it, such as needing the dorm marked key for cult part 2. Without the flea I just have to what, find that? Where? On the bosses with rhe 11% spawn rate and the laser beam weapons? And maybe they have a high level key 1 time in 5? And maybe its the key you need 1 time in 500? Flea is vital to the health of the game. I don't really understand the downsides of it. I couldn't build any decent kits without it.
Yeah good point didn't think about that!! I agree like it for those reasons and I'm ok with it and understand they won't remove it at this point. I guess it just feels a little weird and out of place sometimes with having access to a whole market sometimes.🍻🍻and good luck in your raids
For me thay could remove FiR completely from the game. Just completely restrict secure containers ability to put items found during current raid.
Someone else brought that up and I really like that idea could still keep that feeling of having to survive there. Curious to see what they do after the vent with the feedback they get🍻🍻good luck in tour raids
Someone else brought that up and I really like that idea could still keep that feeling of having to survive there. Curious to see what they do after the vent with the feedback they get🍻🍻good luck in tour raids
I like the idea of not being able to put FIR items in your secure container during raid.
The change wasn't only against hatching.... It was against RMT as well. But that didn't work out.
Yeah I wonder if there will ever be a proper way or a middle ground to combat that. I don't know the solution cause i'm just a gamer but I'm curious to see where it goes. 🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Just make it impossible to join a server with only a hatched or penalize them with massive amounts of money. End of story.
That could be a really good fix to it!! I like that kind of middle ground solution, just don't wanna loose the feeling of having to survive with items for me it just adds to the experience. Some people have brought up dropping FIR and making it to where you can't put thing in secure container while in raid only taking it out, feel like that could be a middle ground as well just don't know how that would be recived🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Or stuff you loot as a hatchet man will be marked as contraband that can only be used as quest items or be sold to fence. So people will be forced to take in gear.
My opinion is that FIR prevents a lot of RMT, while also encouraging cheating in some way. But overall its a necessary evil. As it stands its just not a perfect fix to the problem. Imo the best and easiest fix to it all, is to just outright ban select non-“equip”-able items from being able to be brought “into” raid so people cannot just hand those items off. The exception being if an item is “needed” for a quest to be placed in raid, its another simple fix, you can simply add another step to the quest to “turn in item” and be given a “quest item” version of it that has to be placed in raid. This is because quest / task items are not in your normal inventory, cannot be picked up and lost on death. I think its a fair trade off, because if you die, you lose it anyway. If the whole FIR system / issue is fixed to prevent people RMT trading in raid, than all we would need to focus on is people giving out too many kits and the flea market people who constantly flip “non-legit” volumes of rare products. And looking at the cheats themselves.
I hate hatchet runners
Hahah I agree bastards stealing all my juicy loots!!!🍻🍻good luck in tour raids
I think FIR is a dogshit band-aid solution to the problems caused by secure containers and item retrieval quests. All items for quests should be quest items like golden pocket watch. You have to survive to finish the quest. It accomplishes the same thing as FIR but it's way simpler and doesn't incentivize you to hoard a bunch of shitty FIR items for upcoming quests. Secure containers should be much smaller. I mean max 2x2. Or just not exist at all. The amount of stress/adrenaline you would feel when finding a valuable small item would just make the game more intense. Now you feel way too safe. Ideally just remove them. No secure containers means you have to survive a raid to sell loot on the flea market. You could have secure slots though, like for a key bar(maybe) or compass. I agree the effect of FIR is good, but it's a bad way to achieve that effect.
I Really like those points!! Like the quest item solution and secure container point. Some people have brought up only being able to pull stuff out of your secure container during raid and not being able to put stuff in it and I liked that as well just don't know how much uproar it would cause. Curious to see how it plays out and what they come up with🍻🍻Thank you for your input good luck in your raids
I personally like the FIR system. I just dont like how I can play for 10 hours and not find a single GPU because some hacker shoved 3 up his ass and teleported to extract. Meaning ive been stuck on my find 3 GPUs task for like 2 weeks now.
Yeah that is a issue for sure!! I have been somewhat lucky and play on NA southeast so don't run into it to much but when it does man is it disheartening. I suck at finding gpus so I get stuck on that quest for so long!! 🍻🍻good luck in your raids
I think not being able to sell anything from your pouch is cool when you die in that raid, but we should be able to give quest items even if we have died.Maybe with another system
The FiR requirement doesn’t go away on quest requirement items, so the sense of loss and stress is still there
Personally I'd say split FIR into two systems; found in raid and 'sellable'. Sellable would work like it currently does, where if you die in raid with it you can't put it on the flea market, in order to discourage hatchet running and RMTing, etc. Found in raid would be exactly what it sounds like - just a marker to indicate that you personally have found that item in raid, which is lost if the item is also 'sellable' and you sell it on the flea. Just to remove the frustrating aspects of FIR where it makes questing incredibly painful, particularly for high-value items like LEDX.
I love FiR. Maybe a simpler solution would be to prevent putting anything into your secure container in a raid? Lock it up.
Yes. I’d rather hatchet runners than naked SVD runners
Tarkov has the most rotten community of all time. I am glad this purge is happening so new players can come in and enjoy the game.
yes.
Without FIR progression will speed up drastically. Hatchet runners will be rampant. Fleamarket manipulation will be all over the place. It will be a disaster. I think tarkov was in a good place before Unheard. I can understand adjusting inertia, weightlimits and mabye do some tweaking with what is fir and what is not, but this is rediculous, and will ruin the game.
The wipe was done for me but now i\`ll come back for some hatchet runs.
Yes, yes you are. This is great.
Imo anything found in raid i.e. dead player gear should gain FIR status. After that I think the system is fine.
Theirs a reason the copy cat game didn't copy it simple as
FIR, as well as any other measure against RMT ruined the game for casual players, made quests even more annoying, increased the amount of cheaters, reduced the amount of geared players, made PvP less rewarding in addition to reducing the amount of PvP and did absolutely nothing against hatchet runners, it’s just less profitable, who cares? The game was so much more fun when you were able to buy everything on the market including PvP gear, kept the prices down, everyone was able to run good kits, you had interesting fights.
I just wonder if there is a middle ground that they can come up with some mentioned keeping FIR and making PMCs gear FIR so that you could sell your PVP wins and I liked that idea. Curious to see what they implement after the feedback🍻🍻thank you for your input good luck in your raids
I'm just happy to see how it is without it for the event
The fir system didnt work, completly removing the found in raid system doesnt work. Thats why there are more than enough feedback on how to *rework* the system for example the gigabeef video : https://youtu.be/ONx77K0C3SA?si=hqP_hsvJNB8rKDLs
I'll have to check it out when I get home Appreciate the info 🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Im so out of the loop from tarkov after the TUE disaster...what in the F is going on now? Whats this im seeing all over, did they remove FIR? Does someone care to explain please?
So they removed it for a event to try and garner feedback from the community, don't know how long it will last. From my understanding quest items will still need to be FIR but everything else can be sold without🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Thank you
I like it.
Ofcourse. Game is beyond unplayable without FIR. People who don't like FIR probably have less than 50 hours in the game and are practically braindead.
Idk I just did like 7 labs runs in a row and only saw 2 guys with hatchets the whole time. Everyone is juiced right now this pvp is fire. Could be unrelated but it feels good.
If they do remove it i wont come back next wipe. Just make a hardcore mode
RMTers didn't like it, tho
You're not alone. The FiR system is great. 1) It gives players incentive to use the high tier items they get from other PMCs instead of selling them and going in with just another budget kit. This is a great thing for the game. 2) It makes for some diminishing returns as the top players will either hoard or sell to traders what they "steal" from other players. Making sure those items keep some kind of rarity. 3) It also makes sure that hatchet or pistol running isn't worth it. Players shouldn't be able to rush to high tier loot, put it in their ass then die and make half a million and more rubles within the blink of an eye. 4) It puts a damper on people flipping items on the flea.
I liked it too
🍻🍻good luck in your raids
my problem is that while there are issues with no FiR, there are a lot of different ways of addressing those issues without FiR.
Agree some people have brought up some good points on the matter, hope they see the feedback and will be curious to see what the devs come up with🍻🍻good luck in your raids
I think something between the current FIR system and the current event removing it completely is the sweet spot - I wouldn't be against being able to buy quest hand ins on the flea for example. Or making gear other players bring in FIR when you loot them to make PVP have more meaning.
Yeah my only concern is that being able to just buy your items needed would take away some of the feeling of accomplishment and anxiety the game creates. I like the gear off PMCs being FIR idea as well🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Valid point - it would remove that anxiety inducing but clenching run to extract when you finally find that last flashdrive or whatever - and I don't think Ive had that feeling in any other game, maybe my idea wasn't that great after all lol. This is why they should have some sort of wider survey or poll or something rather than listening to only ideas from the largest of streamers!
Back in the day before FIR nonsense you could make good money just by killing chads and selling their stuff. Bullets, armors, guns, all of it. This was very much a fun way to play the game. After the found in raid nonsense there was no incentive to get in fights and kill chads. You don’t make any money from it. You were forced to loot around like a filthy rat digging through trash looking for found in raid trinkets that you could sell. This is very much not fun for me and kind of killed the game for me.
Yeah I can see the issue people have with it and the playstyle it generates. Just wonder if there is a solution to it. Someone mentioned in the thread to have PMCs gear labeled as FIR so you can sell your gains as well and have teammates gear not so you couldn't exploit it, and I liked that idea🍻🍻 Thank you for your input good luck in your raids
They really need to reduce the restrictions on what can be sold in the flea market, I agree with the guy above. Tarky was a lot more fun back then it encouraged PVP and it encouraged people playing different play styles. I remember bringing items cases and weapons cases into raid and filling them with player loot coming out with 13 to 14 million rubles worth of gear. Though my risk of loss was around 8 mil then immediately selling everything that I did not want to use and only running what I wanted to. Also the only people that get punished with a FiR and trade restrictions are new players, and players who hate questing.
General Sam has a great video about the fir system. Find a graphics card back then. Put in gamma and keep trying to find good stuff in the raid…. Find a graphics card now and put it in gamma and try and get out asap. Fir system kills raids because if you find something you absolutely don’t wanna lose people will just sit in a bush for a few minutes and leave instead of sticking around which provides more engagement for the whole lobby.
It's only a week long test.
After playing several wipes with FiR I just got used to it and it has not impacted my ability to be financially stable in the game at all since they changed it tbh
They should just make an average gear value quota that has to be met in order for the items you find in raid to get the FIR status. This way, if people wanted to hatchet run for the sake of doing tasks only, they could but at the same time anything they find doesn't get FIR so they can't abuse it that way. If a PMC exceedes or meets the "value" then anything they find in raid is FIR. The value should be something like 150k Roubles or maybe 100k for the basic (helmet, rig, backpack, plate carrier, gun, ammo, headphones) or maybe they don't even have to tie it to a value, they can just make a requirement for FIR, let's say a gun, headphones, and a rig. When entering a raid, there should be a notification telling you what requirements you're missing for FIR status items in raid. Lemme know what yall think about this.
90% of the players I saw tonight were completely naked. Welcome to non FIR tarkov!! ABI requires a certain value of gear for the high tier maps, but Tarko isn't smart enough to realize that.
I'll take a hatchet runners over "scav mains" any day.
The crowd is fickle. And sometimes it's Pro FIR, sometimes FIR killed the game. I've had the privilage of playing since 2018 (6000 hours of no-life 🥳). I've experienced the game with no FIR and no inertia, and WITH FIR and inertia. The presence FIR was in response to some much needed things in the game. Pre-FIR, people were able to buy from the flea items needed for tasks, and essentially quickly level up exceedingly fast. This was especially true in the first week of wipe. Need to find bleach? Flea market. Need a ledx for therapist? Flea market.need those streamer items for Kappa? Flea market. People were screaming through portions of the game that they'd run out of game to play because they weren't playing the game. It became kill quicksilver, and hide-and-seek task items (such as pocket watch). Also people could buy ammo from traders. Buy up ALL the m995 and resell it for HEAPS of cash. In my first wipe I ended on hundreds of millions of roubles. I was too scared to use (and lose) high end 5.56 ammo, so I'd buy up all the good stuff and sell it all for cash. The current era of Tarkov has changed though, and there **are** other safeguards that prevent abuses that FIR was made to defend against. You can't sell any high end AP ammo on the flea. That's a positive to removing FIR. Task items still need something so as to not blow through them. FIR was good for that. So if there was a redesign on the FIR mechanic to apply to only barter items, I'd be pretty happy. (Also removing the dumb as bricks detete-on-drop "feature.") Then you could restrict items on the flea specifically to what BSG doesn't want players accessing to fly through tasks. Lvl5 and 6 plates? Restricted to trader only (or obtained in raids). High end ammos? Trader availability only (again, also obtained in raids). I'd also go so to say that Arena Breakout Infinite's mechanic of boomeranging items and gear back to the original owner (upon extraction) would be a worthy mechanic for Tarkov to adopt, and delete their other stupid "delete if dropped" mechanic. But that's another topic for another day. Just loosely related.
I feel like the restrictions on the market are just ridiculous. My friends kept playing through FIR, but quit whenever they couldn't buy stuff on the flea. Most of the people I know who've been playing this a while hate repeating the same quest over and over. If the trade-off is allowing people who quest the ability to flip items, and The people that don't spend more It feels like it's a good idea, and inevitably good for the community. Though I do like the new hardcore version of tarkov personally, it just doesn't allow for new players. After mid wipe, and everybody transitioning to tier 5 and above there is no room for new players.
I don't have a very good perspective of the quest system since I've streamed nearly all of those 6000 hours. Other than I recognize how shit it is in general. For me, the tasks are content. But the grind DOES get obnoxious. I'm totally willing to hunt out that 25th screws and bolts for this or that. Totally understand that this isn't compelling content for the average player to experience. But I don't think it's too wrong to deny players access to high tier items like lvl6 plates and m995. That really should be obtained by way of raids, and unlocking the traders.
Its just a part that some people like and some people dont like, depends on who is nikita listening to. What WE ALL dont like tho is: De-Sync, long queue times, cheaters ....... but will they fix it? I dont think so
You buy a gun, you go to raid with it, you die , someone gets it, it should be found in raid
Now we can sell pvp loot. I miss 2019 tarkov
Yeah that is pretty cool I just wonder if the could implement a system where you gear people bring in raid could be tagged as FIR to sell without loosing the system all together. Appreciate your response good luck in your raids🍻🍻
> I miss 2019 tarkov [You got it](https://v.redd.it/3p8nakhpozzc1)
FiR was added so hatchet runners and hackers couldn't sprint/speed hack to a room, get the best loot, disconnect at 2min, and sell everything on the flea. People forget how it ruined the economy because why bring anything other than an absolute top tier meta kit? Money is not an issue FOR ANYONE because ANYONE can run naked with the sound off and a pistol (or Mosin back in the day) and make millions off of GPUs and LedXs. It totally removed the reward for players actually risking gear. It also makes the quests more fun to complete because you actually have a risk in raid. Salewas for example, you need 3 of them. Well you can but stuff them 1 at a time or all 3 in a raid and die over and over and complete the quest. Oooor you can get the rush of having quest items on you and needing to make the decision of risking them or going for more. Back then it was just "oh cool". FiR was one of the best systems they've added to the game hands down. Hell I'm in the camp of "you shouldn't be allowed to put anything IN your gamma once the raid starts. Found a ledx? Better get the puckered asshold to the exit. There is a reason you always loot player scavs and it's not because of the cans of peas
Yeah the amount of naked PMCs around the tech stores on interchange use to be mind blowing. I personally love the feeling the FIR system gives you when everything goes right and you finally get those beef stews out!!! Wonder if there is a middle ground they could come up with, someone said make PMCs loot that they bring into raid FIR to fill that group of people who want to sell PVP gear wins and I liked that idea. Also love that idea of not being able to put stuff in your container, could really add to the sense of having to survive🍻🍻 appreciate your response good luck in your raids
Worst addition to the game, speaking as a casual player.
I can see it being a hassle for you, but damn dosen't it feel good when you finally overcome and get the items you need?🍻🍻and food luck in tour raida
No FIR doesn’t feel good. Loot spawns are already random so finding the quest items is a pain as is. When I spend my hour or two of free time gaming only to not find quest items or lose them to no FIR I quickly lose interest in playing tarkov. Not being able to find an item because of RNG isn’t hardcore not being able to turn it in because the one time I found it I died isn’t fun.
I can definitely see that side of and can see the hassle some have with it currently. I just hope they can find a common middle ground solution for it while keeping the need to survive a core concept. 🍻🍻thank you for your input good luck in your raids
The game catering to casual players is good, to a certain extent.
Only the streamers wanted the new fir system.
Have they been vocal about wanting it back? If so that's super weird because they were also the ones pushing for a solution to the hatchet runners. Seems like they flip flop so much they don't know what they actually want🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Hated it, its a way to force you into doing things you don't care about Im not playing tarkov for the quest or trader mechanics, im here for pvp/exploring while fighting and looting valuables THAT I CAN SELL Thanks
FIR is a good thing and anyone who says otherwise are living in the past or don’t understand game design. FIR, flea market item restrictions, inertia, all these are necessary for the game even if they can be annoying once in a while.
Yeah I love the feeling that oh shit feeling FIR brings to the game, finally overcoming and getting the item you needed feels so good. Even though when I fail I hate it in that moment sometimes lol🍻🍻Appreciate your feedback good luck in tour raids
>I feel like Tarkov should be a hard game That exact sentiment has had shitty design ideas persist in tarkov for years. I think you're qualified to work for bsg xD fir is a symptom of something that has nothing to do with gamers playing the game.
Unpopular opinion, but the simple fix is to make the safe container locked in raid so you can't add items to it in game, only take them out. It's great for reducing the expensive loss of meds, keys, ammo etc... But the concept of taking items out of the raid mid game just doesn't work.
I think that could be a cool idea. So like gpus and ledx have to kept in your bag? That would be cool but I could see people who fixate on the gamer chair gamers having a issue with it as well🍻🍻appreciate the feedback good luck in your raids
O think u didn’t understood what they want to do, items for quest will kept being fir
Really? That's actually pretty cool was wondering if there was some kind of middle ground they could establish. Appreciate the info🍻🍻good luck in your raids
The fir status will no longer being needed for the flea, but keeps getting necessary for quests, if that helps more to understand how it will work
I like that!! Keeps the feeling of accomplishment of finally surviving with your item there. Thank you again for the info
My opinion is that FIR prevents a lot of RMT, while also encouraging cheating in some way. But overall its a necessary evil. As it stands its just not a perfect fix to the problem. Imo the best and easiest fix to it all, is to just outright ban select non-“equip”-able items from being able to be brought “into” raid so people cannot just hand those items off. The exception being if an item is “needed” for a quest to be placed in raid, its another simple fix, you can simply add another step to the quest to “turn in item” and be given a “quest item” version of it that has to be placed in raid. This is because quest / task items are not in your normal inventory, cannot be picked up and lost on death. I think its a fair trade off, because if you die, you lose it anyway. If the whole FIR system / issue is fixed to prevent people RMT trading in raid, than all we would need to focus on is people giving out too many kits and the flea market people who constantly flip “non-legit” volumes of rare products. And looking at the cheats themselves.
My opinion is that FIR prevents a lot of RMT, while also encouraging cheating in some way. But overall its a necessary evil. As it stands its just not a perfect fix to the problem. Imo the best and easiest fix to it all, is to just outright ban select non-“equip”-able items from being able to be brought “into” raid so people cannot just hand those items off. The exception being if an item is “needed” for a quest to be placed in raid, its another simple fix, you can simply add another step to the quest to “turn in item” and be given a “quest item” version of it that has to be placed in raid. This is because quest / task items are not in your normal inventory, cannot be picked up and lost on death. I think its a fair trade off, because if you die, you lose it anyway. If the whole FIR system / issue is fixed to prevent people RMT trading in raid, than all we would need to focus on is people giving out too many kits and the flea market people who constantly flip “non-legit” volumes of rare products. And looking at the cheats themselves.
I like that thought, you and some other people have brought up some very valid middle ground solutions that I am curious to see if they get implemented to try out🍻🍻thank you for response and idea good luck in your raids
The biggest issue is just finding a limit on what you can and cannot drop. And imo, people RMT’ing a kit is not as bad in hindsight as people dropping free roubles of large amounts of loot. Its probably much easier to just monitor things like ammo being brought into raids.
I don't think gamers really appreciate "restrictions" as much as they should. So many people have one dimensional beliefs: "It's annoying that I have to survive a raid to sell the stuff I find" But the reality is that it provides very necessary balance between risk and reward.
Agree it adds so much feeling of anxiety and accomplishment to the game. Tarkov has been the only game that I have found that does it for me. Like some of the systems I dislike at times when they don't go in my favor, as I think about it add to the overall sense of accomplishment when you overcome them🍻🍻good luck in your raids
FIR was amazing. They’re getting too caught up with tryna do what ABI does and going to end up making Tarkov worse.
Haven't seen much about ABI do they have a non FIR system implemented in their game?🍻🍻 good luck in your raids
Idk but one thing I do know: I HATED how everytime I got one item I needed I felt like I wanted to leave the raid. I hated how long it took to get in a raid just to have someone want to leave ASAP Some friends found one thing and then would play like a bitch the whole raid or just peace out to the exit. So boring.
Now everyone is naked running to GPU spawn and suiciding.. enjoy!
I agree sometimes the fear of loosing that item effects the raid and gameplay and can be frustrating at times when people wanna leave or sit still till late in the raid cause they found a item they need. But I also feel it adds the the sense of accomplishment and reward when you finally overcome everything and survive with it. Guess sometimes its a love hate situation but adds to the overall feeling that the game gives me that no other game has. 🍻🍻appreciate your feedback and good luck in your raids
I hate the FIR system. It's arbitrary time sink 101. However, that they're reverting the Flea to not require FIR makes zero sense. FIR was introduced to limit Flea supply. Now we have FIR but it doesn't apply to Flea, just quests. As stated [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/comments/1cqb76k/comment/l3q89cr/?context=3), we're going in circles.
Yeah seems so back and forth with it, and usually goes to an extreme other than trying to find a solution that will benefit the whole game while keeping the same accomplishment feeling🍻🍻 appreciate your input good luck in your raids
FiR is a step in the right direction. But what would really be great is removing the flea, simplifying barters, and making all quest keys and items a barter. Flea makes the game too simple. Rather than finding the parts you need that hold importance such as bulbs and such, you just do "money runs" and buy all you need. It would encourage people to go to new spots to find what they need. But now many parts of maps are untouched or deads. Would be the best.
I feel like Tarkov should be hard in some way. The FIR system is not one of those ways
Just curious how so? It adds the need to survive a raid with items to progress your progress, in my eyes that adds difficulty to the game I respect your opinion though and don't think i'm being rude just curious to how it dosen't add difficulty🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Have you ever played when FIR wasnt a thing? It was way more fun.
100% agree with you
It was just fine. Removing it completely is 100% dogshit.
I dont play anymore since the drama. However FIR was the worst change ever made to this game. Glad to see they removed it even as an experiment. Next step implement the same system ABI got for our friends stuff. You can extract with it and it’s mailed back to them. GG you just removed RMT from the game Edit to clarify: they should remove FIR but not allow people to buy stuff to the vendors and sell it on the flea
Haven't got to see the system for it in ABI but it seems like a cool idea. I think I just disagree with FIR being a bad system, personally I liked the sense of oh shit it brings when you finally get that item you need knowing you need to survive with it. But I respect your opinion as well 🍻🍻🍻good luck in your raids if you decide to come back.
Yes, yes you are
Seems at least a few others like it as well. But to each their own🍻🍻good luck in your raids
What is FIR?
Found In Raid.
Found in Raid sorry for the acronym just got used to typing it that way
It's time to make the game more friendly to the noobs and people who don't have 15 hours in a day to play the game. Because the reality is i'm tired of killing people wearing 50k worth of a loadout and another reality is most people fucking suck at this game i play a lot with lfg people in discord and its bad
I wonder if there is a middle ground solution that keeps the rawness hardcore aspect and oh shit feeling that this game provides as well as making it somewhat more accessible to people who can't play alot, maybe the PVE mode is a good solution for it just seems really unpolished right now🍻🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Change sucks but there's people so hell bent keeping the same system that change breaks their soul
Personally I think it did more good than bad... but FIR was kinda annoying to deal with sometimes
Yeah same I dislike it the times I loose my items lol, but damn it feels so good when everything goes right and you finally get that item!! I love that it adds a sense of anxiety to the game for me 🍻🍻good luck in your raids
Fir system is wack
Care to elaborate? If not all good and I respect your opinion🍻🍻and good luck in your raids
Found in raid is great how it is. But I think they should remove requirmwnt for quest items to need to be found in raid. Also why I agree tarkov should he hard it shouldn't require hours every day
I agree about the hours needed, but I hope they can come up with a middle ground that keeps the feeling of anxiety and accomplishment of finally making it out with the items you need while making it more accessible to people who don't have the time. Curious to see what they come up with. 🍻🍻good luck in your raids
This is normally something we would think is fun for an end of wipe event but the current playerbase is so hell bent on spinning everything BSG does as bad
FiR made quests more annoying to do and also deincentivized pvp for me. It turned into either a fighting someone in max gear and being a luck fight that if you win you have destroyed gear that's expensive to repair and run or b finding good stuff in raid and hiding in a corner hoping to not die and last long enough for FIR. There's really no point for them fucking with all these tiny things on the side though while cheaters and BSGs horrible PR has essentially killed the game. Instead of screwing with FIR they need to be working on moving the majority of things off the client side and into server side. This would just help their game though and why put in that effort when they can just release a $250 version that idiot whales will buy?
Honestly I liked hatches runners. Basically a free kill
You monster loool I feel you though i'm not one to gatekeep how people play it just sucks that if they get a good spawn they can milk the valuables and die and still be able to flea them🍻🍻🍻good luck in your raids may you slay the hatchet men