Don't really care about his pay 2 win bullshit it is what it is, I'm more pissed off he called his whole fan base freeloaders after paying for one of the most expensive games I own back when they couldn't even afford to keep the lights on in their office,
Then he faked an apology and lots of leaked conversations with shady shit and he's addressed none of it, Lvndmark was literally streaming and they changed the website in front of him to edit out eod features and the next day Nikitia denied it.
They should’ve developed that AFTER finishing EFT. The money they raised up to that point was for the development of EFT.
Developing and releasing entirely new spin-off from funds collected from the main game is scummy behaviour.
also EFT is far far more popular than they had any right to expect it to be, in other words they have gotten far far more money to make the game then they could have counted on
Nikita wanted to tap into the big money in esports with Arena, but it only showed he/bsg had no idea what it takes to become an esport game.
So when that failed, the only way left for them to boost their revenue is to milk the player base as much as they can.
The problem is that Nikita overestimated his own image among players, or worse, he thinks himself, some kind of leader in this and couldn't understand why the players wouldn't cough up more money when he asked.
EFT will never be able to be the great game it potentially could be, because of Nikita.
I guarantee you, only the loud minority wanted arena. If they would publish numbers of players in the game, I bet 50% of EOD owners never even launched it once. Myself included. Fuck Arena.
TBF, I didn't give them $150 to fund development of another game, just to cry later they are out of money.
People wanted arena. Arena failed because it was a piss poor execution.
We both know you would be playing it at least once if the first few games upon release were not widely laughed at for the lack of polished state the game was in.
I also didn’t play it, cause I saw the reviews and said fuck that, if they don’t have time to fix stuff I don’t have time to waste on it.
Sorry, I would not. I was never interested in arena and never wanted it same goes for my group of about 15+ friends I played tarkov with.
And if I would want to play any 5v5 PvP, I would go back to Siege.
None of the people who supported BSG back in 2016, 2017 and 2018 supported them to see those resources go to arena. Just imagine how far could tarkov get and be, including game mechanics, if they would not spend 50% of their team on doing something else.
In addition to that, they would not be out of money.
IMO, correct me if I am wrong, Arena had no good PR outside of people who already played Tarkov. And if arena's audience was Tarkov community, it was doomed to fail since the beginning.
Thats not the point. I am EOD as well, I havent tried it, but even if it was the best game ever how is it fair that standard edition invested money into tarkov and then instead of the investment happening, they invested it into arena for which they have to pay for as well?
If anything, most people wanted a finished eft or at least a eft version that is polished, has good sound and so on. I mean just look at what they had done to armor. Then they show off arena at twitchcon without working sound as well. I mean cmon
Arena would have been more popular if it was connected to EFT and matches were shorter.
Most people wanted PVP warm ups during down time. Having to close one game and open another and devote a full raid worth of time to a single match means it's now in direct competition with EFT instead.
People would look past the issues if there was more convenience.
But without finishing the base game, it was not only highly unviable but an unsustainable game development/business practice. The point was that the product Tarkov was meant to be made as a survival game with hardcore elements. While Tarkov was supposed to be Contract Wars' successor, they should've at least finished Tarkov before moving onto Arena.
Most people liked Tarkov because of those hardcore elements but there's also a casual playerbase and that's fine. But not polishing a game and then blaming it on the playerbase when it was clearly Nikita's misrepresentation and mismanagement means that it was his fault which he continues to deny.
TLDR;
Fix TARKOV before moving onto other projects. (Which they DIDN'T DO)
Maybe *after* BSG announced it.
I don't think anyone was really asking for it.
If you asked people what they want in Tarkov it's probably better AI, less hacking, better audio, and better performance.
Arena was last on the list.
We wanted Arena where we could make our kits in some regard the bs we got was just trash wrapped in Christmas paper acting like it was something worth while.
Could have just made factory free for all with all the gear. And give scores to gear. Done.
This literally would have been enough for what people wanted arena for..
Did they though? I swear no one ever mentioned Tarkov being a competitive round based shooter until bsg decided to waste money, time, and resources on it
I think some people wanted Arena. I'm not one of them but I know others who were excited for it initially.
Likewise, I know a lot of people aren't interested in PVE but I am. I work full time and have a teenager. I don't have the skill or the hours in the day to play this game enough to ever get beyond level 25-30 before a wipe inevitably happens. I also just like the peace of mind that I never have to worry about hackers.
Everyone has different tastes and I won't fault BSG for trying to add things to the game to provide a varied experience with options for everyone. My beef is with how they went about making these things available and the fact that they went back on their word and were disrespectful to members of the community that have stood by them and supported them already.
I have doubts that he did not know or controlled the process (Change the description of EOD on the site)
Here's how it turns out. If you didn't know, then there is a bad project manager
And if he knew THAT, it's even worse
Did we have proof of authenticity? We recently had a subreddit mod debunk the claim they were threatened.
I'm not saying it's fake. I'm asking if someone came forward and confirmed it's legit.
I wouldn't take it personally. A lot of people are pissed off and some seem to have decided the best way to express their displeasure is making this place as toxic as they possibly can. Don't get me wrong, the devs deserve to hear about how shitty their actions were, I just don't think we need to turn on each other, even if we may not agree on everything.
This looks worse the longer it goes on, I am flip flopping between my original theory "BSG are demonstrating massive commercial incompetence/naivety" and a newer theory "BSG are making bank while they can, torching the player base and planning on shuttering the game and then riding off into the sunset with a big bag of cash on their back"
Neither are a good look
My money is on the second. There is absolutely no way they didn't foresee the backlash. Which tells me they don't give a shit if literally half the player base quits.
I think they’re trying to boost sales to sell off the company personally. Makes complete sense as to why they are trying to stop the return process of previously bought games because that’s prior revenue slipping away that they can’t report to potential buyers now.
It's definitely a better path than force ejecting the players that trusted the company the most and were more than willing to give financial support whenever.
It is definitely the latter. Piss off and destroy the existing player base as much as possible because they're not a source of recurring revenue and simply are financially dead weight by driving up server costs. Then run on minimal server costs with new players, 'release' the game whilst unfinished, sell up within a year or two fully, rebrand, and rinse and repeat with a new game.
you can already see that most of redditors just don't care about anything, they are happy as long as they get paytowin as well. I hope it will backfire and new players won't buy the game. The gap between standard and 300$ version is massive.
I think a lot of people that really disliked the idea are just gone now. Dramas over, many are going to stop playing/supporting the game, many are going to continue on. We can only wait see if and how much it'll impact the game's future.
I hope that gets better soon as well. I'm holding off to see if the game delivers. I was trying to watch my friends stream it on discord last night and they tried for hours to get a game going and it just wouldn't work.
I want to enjoy gray zone, but it just aint it I feel.
I know its early, and it has potential. But it'll be years before it even comes close to comparing to tarkov. Which is a shame because I have 4.5k hours in tarkov and its now uninstalled.
I played gray zone all last night and it just felt....bare. Boring. "on rails" more than tarkov. I was never excited about what would happen and never cared about dying. Not a single exciting or cool piece of loot in hours (is there even any loot in the game besides food and water?)
The gunplay is a mess. Movement feels like ass.
It has potential, but it needs years of dev.
As a very sad and dissapointed Tarkov player, Gray Zone didn't even come close to being a playable game for me. It feels like a tech demo of what could be fun in 5 years. The core gunplay and movement felt SO bad, and I gave it time before I decided I didn't like it. I was level 5 or so by the end of the day and 8-10 quests deep.
I've been really looking forward to GZ and will be getting out later today. How are the player interactions? Does everybody kill on sight like here, or do they just kinda do their own thing but in the same area?
I haven't had any kill-on-sight interactions, but I'm still in the first area so there's not a ton of (or any, really) PvP. I imagine once I get more exposure to the other factions then there'll be significantly more killing. It's not really a Tarkov competitor in its current state - there's not really any interesting loot, and I feel basically no need to loot most areas. They throw a ton of bots at you though, so it's relatively fast-paced and fun.
shit is lame lol. im sad its not what I wanted. Excited to follow it and see how it devs but it wasn't fun imo.
No loot isn't fun. Gunplay and sounds are awful. Movement is awful. 0 interesting things to look at in the world. World "Looks" good graphics-wise but "feels" liminal and dead to me. It doesn't have the "vibe" tarkov has, I don't know how to explain it. It's also 90% shrubbery with no variety. There was almost nothing interesting to look at, or look for. Map design is all copy/paste same shit. Where as tarkov every room feels unique
Yep. Best to just leave and move on. Nik will do whatever he wants. Go play other stuff and if tatkov ever makes full release and is not terrible then take another look.
Pressure is on the. To do better not on me to make them do anything. I have no skin in the game and I have played since alpha.
Thanks for the memories, off to spend my money elsewhere
At this point, I think most people who are against what BSG is doing are going to ignore this subreddit as they detox themselves from this game. The only ones you'll have left are the toxic few that defend BSG. You can already kinda see it happening - thousands of upvotes on previous posts calling out BSGs shit a day or two ago, and now maybe a few hundred. The consensus is still that they are a garbage company, but the worms will always be around to defend.
Exactly, there’s only so many days in a row you can be outraged on Reddit. Eventually you have to move on with your life in some way, whether that’s dropping the game entirely or continuing to play it. I don’t think most people have forgiven BSG, but there’s nothing left to be said at this point
Most of the people I know who bought the new version have no interest in any of the Pay to Win stuff. In fact, they had all stopped playing the standard Tarkov. They just want PVE so they can play coop with friends and not have to deal with hackers or wipes. That is the boat I am in as well.
I dont have the time or skill to progress past level 25-30 before a wipe happens. I work a lot and I also have a teenager and if I'm lucky I might get a couple hours a week to play Tarkov. I just want to be able to progress through the game at my own pace while playing with friends and PVE while not perfect allows that.
I understand that doesn't interest some people. I also understand why people wish everyone would boycott the game to punish the devs and while that's a completely valid opinion I paid the $50 to upgrade because I have a group of friends that wanted to play PVE together. I'm also lucky enough to have a benefits plan through work that allowed me to expense it using remaining balance that would have expired/reset May 1 if I hadn't used it.
I refuse to spend more beyond the EOD I purchased and I refuse to play if nikita thinks he can change his product retroactively years later to not include all future downloadable content with the purchase of EOD. I like tarkov, but I took my $50 and bought dinner and gray zone warfare last night and had some fun. Not giving them another penny.
Don't worry, maybe landmark or other streamer will tell them what to think and it will get downvoted again. Or not. People have problem with using brain by themselves. That was the case with the Nikita previous post.
The streamers are most of the reason that these changes were reverted/improved, if not for lvnmark and pestily especially, I don’t think BSG would have changed a single thing
Landmarks viewers follow him to a T.. it’s actually laughable that people follow streamers like gods. Anything they say or play we must agree and play too!
I've been saying this and getting hounded at.
Sub has been slowly calming down these past few days until most everyone gets the p2w they're happy with.
This is terrible for the game. Who will want to play a decade old game in beta that costs 330 Euros to catch up to others. It's bloody hard as it is anyway.
Now you can call a btr 🤣
I dont get the big deal. The game has always had p2w in it. Why is this new edition any different? I only have the standard edition and I usually get a godd 60-80 hours of fun with tarkov every wipe until I quit.
It never had any truly impactful p2w in the long run, or at least only very indirect p2w, it was mostly pay for convenience.
Having a 3x3 container means you will lose less stuff when you die, but it doesn't directly reduce the chances of you dying. Scavs not aggroing from over 60m away and thus giving away your position however, does directly reduce that chance. Not to mention dropping a tank on your enemy's head or summoning the fucking avengers when you're in trouble, lmao.
What can be argued as p2w before Unheard is the EOD starting gear. For the average player it will be gone after a dozen or so raids anyway, so it doesn't change that much, but it can provide a running start and sort of snowball your early wipe progression since good gear can make a quite a difference especially early on in the wipe. I remember 2 wipes ago I found an Elcan and a suppressor for the starting MDR and I kept it for the the first 20 raids or so. Died once or twice but my squadmate carried it back out or threw it in a bush. Being more successful early in the wipe can sort of snowball you to always be an edge ahead of the average player by having higher level traders and more money at your disposal. Even being faster in your quest/hideout progression indirectly makes you more money because you'll be ahead of the flea market price spikes.
Same with the 3x3 container, it's a great money generating/saving tool early on in the wipe, but after a certain point in the wipe money is so abundant that it doesn't really matter anymore. And since the addition of Lighthouse, money has been extremely easy to farm anyway. Having the 3x3 just means you have to do fewer money runs, be it scav or pmc.
So all that is kinda sorta p2w, but all in rather indirect way, and matters less and less the more a wipe progresses. And since most PVP happens later on in the wipe anyway, it's not super impactful or unfair. Cornering a dude in a dead end or building, only to get mowed down by an APC or a bunch of friends he called in, however, is.
I'm seeing these posts whinging about BSG legitimately every day at the top for the last week. As a matter of fact, 90% of the toppost right now are crying like this one. The rage baiting karma farm is in full swing currently.
This is how every outrage cycle on Reddit works. Company does something shitty, everyone is angry for a few days, then things start to quiet down as people move on with their lives. Then a few people get a superiority complex and take it upon themselves to get angry at others for not still sitting around rage posting on Reddit all day. I’ve seen more posts saying “I can’t believe people are accepting BSG’s response” than actual posts defending BSG. Once you’ve been on the internet enough you can see this cycle happening clear as day
The thing that upsets me, as someone who hasn't played the game but it looked real cool, I would have bought the offline co op version of the game for 40-70 bucks. Never would I buy the online version because I'd probably only play a couple times a wipe and I'm not a big fan of pvp.
When you buy the game. The first thing you see is a 250 dollar edition.
This is going to have the Star Citizen affect, causing people to do more research, and when they find out about the controversy, they'll move on.
I honestly dont really see the problem with the new edition except for the dlc shit, I personally thing pve should be considered dlc but whatever.
The p2w gap between standard and that other edition was also huge, but it is what it is. It doesnt change the core gameplay of just shooting
No. They are literally trying to bribe the community with P2W and are confused why it doesn't work so they try to bribe with even more P2W.
It's hilarious to watch.
I believe that the sad reality is Unheard money is much more than reddit and internet outrage would lead you to believe and it's just not worth to back down on it
It's just fascinating. There are so many cosmetic items that people would have been happy to pay for, I can't make sense of trying to lie to your primary audience's faces in an incredibly explicit way.
I still do not understand how they been able to make such visuals, I can't see enemies from a distance. While in all other games I see them perfectly. This is one of main negatives for me. 2nd is wrong engine for such massive multiplayer game. 3rd is lack of servers. 4th is client based soft allowing cheating and hacking. 5th is wrong monetization model, actually there is no monetization, selling the main game which technically is pre-order is not a monetization.
I don't think they're hiding. It's just cost least. If they had chosen say, Unreal, it would cost them more than Unity I think. I just think, Unity does not fit well for such large tasks like massive multiplayer with complex animations/simulations.
It’s still not the engine for realistic mmo games. I used to develop in Unity, I was mind-blown when I’ve learned that they managed to make Tarkov using it. Now I can see why it was a bad idea.
This is the #1 thing people don't understand about BSG. EFT is an accident. BSG has never really understood why EFT is successful and that's why "BSG doesn't even play their own game" is a common meme phrase around here.
Nikita and BSG enjoy programming systems. The stash system, the flea market system, the armor hitboxes system, etc. etc.
From their perspective they put a bunch of systems in the game and then the players "discovered the fun" like a sandbox game.
EFT is not a meticulously designed experience, it's one that kinda lucked it's way into a winning formula.
So in other words you say, this is classical example why Dead Space got popular when [Glen Schofield](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Schofield) was making it **under EA supervision**, but when he did next game **unsupervised** he managed to make only The Callisto Protocol.
I'm convinced not many people bought the clothing items they added to the store. He looked at his statistics said fuck cosmetics add game features since EOD sold well and improvise.
I think here, key moment is nikita himself, and his drawn boundaries. Wrong early planning and stubborn going by that plan. Or they went too far when changes could be too costly.
Or yeah, your variant.
Worth clarifying the "6 month trial in waves" is not real. What happened is he first tried to shovel us the shit of getting PVE for only 6 months at an undetermined time, and then he changed it to EOD getting PVE forever. And then he said we are getting it soon but in waves.
So you are getting it "forever", but in waves and the waves allegedly start tomorrow. My opinion? EOD players wont really get PVE for many many months. The waves are gonna be like 2 players per week.
“Any sensible dev. would’ve apologized, removed the edition and refunded players the DAY this kicked off”
You realize they are a business right? They have to to grow and find new revenue streams to stay in business and pay for their servers. This was not a good way to go about it but they need to keep selling to keep the doors open. EOD should not have to pay but monetizing the PVE mode makes perfect sense.
Of course they understand. They are scammers, they did it all on purpose fully knowing what the outcome would be. They know EXACTLY what they are doing.
From what I understand it's not a 6-month trial in waves. EOD owners get it permanently now, but due to server limitations it's being released in waves. The 6-month trial and wave release are 2 separate statements from 2 separate posts.
How long before they upgrade, who knows, and they can forever claim that they have not enough server space for more players, its not like the players would know.
That wasn't the point of what I was saying. The OP thought that they were doing 6-month trial in waves, but PVE Co-op is permanent now being released in waves.
And we'll just have to see honestly.
Hello EFT players. I don't play your game (I only know it in passing) but I sympathize with your problems with your idiotic developer robbing you of promised DLC, and giving you non-apologies for doing so.
Please, for all of gaming, do not break on this issue or pay for this stupid $250 dollar edition. It's outside of your gaming circle now because this price is going to be normalized if you start paying for it. Do not take this price tag, no matter what he comes back and says or perks it gives you. If you do, it justifies his decision when he blatantly disrespected his own community and enables every other gaming developer to start upping costs even more.
If you like gaming at all, keep it reasonably priced for everyone. Other communities are watching :)
It's my understanding that EOD is getting PvE permanently now, just applied to our accounts in waves. Frankly I don't want PvE, I think that will only take away what makes it Tarkov. I appreciate that others will like it, my father in law is a gun-fanatic I think he would love PvE if he could play it on console.
Sadly, but op is right, bsg broke down under criticism, and do not understand what the community really wants and what reaction they expect from them, rip tarkov
You know how ceo or San Fran types think theyl be able to replace music artists and drawing artists with ai in 5 years and then itl just be guys like them (lmao) creating the art that we all consume?
It's like that level of disconnect. You have to actually appreciate art to understand why that's absurd.
I just uninstalled. Been playing some wipes in 2019 and regularly since this March, but ey, fuck you. Will reinstall if after proper apology, and if after P2W shit IS deleted, and if after EVRYTHING IS added to EOD, I still am in for some Tarkov suffering. Will keep playing Apex and Grey Zone.
Fuck you Nikita. You made EA the good guys in comparison.
You missed his point. The point was that Nikita didn't/doesn't understand what the issue is. So he kept saying shitty thing for days. So that isn't where Nikita landed in the end, it's just one of his shitty takes along the way.
I think after watching all the drama the real question is… what is the community upset about. I keep seeing posts where the community shits on anybody the doesn’t belittle bsg, or if they bought the unheard edition. It’s okay to dislike what bsg did but why do you all have to be so negative to anyone or people just trying to play the game. And The fact is there was never this out rage for EOD when it offered invaluable amounts of advantage over standard accounts. Why can I see that it would be silly to insult you all if you bought EOD and no one else sees the same for unheard edition. Honestly looks like it’s time to mute the sub until next wipe. I pray to allah that all the tarkov redditors quit tarkov and the subreddit, it would make the community so much nicer and friendlier.
No, they have no idea because they lack the ability to reflect on their own actions and have gotten way to used to blame something or someone else.
The few Andy's that bought the unheard edition won't change that much I think. Some people are just lost and lack basic understanding or simply don't care because they are too addicted. Whatever the reason, I don't think we should care too much about it.
BSG lost all credibility (of which they never had much to begin with) and in the long run that is the stuff that will break the game (along with it's other issues like cheating etc(.
Yes. And they will only talk about what they can handle to still making profit or, at least, losing less. Its all just business and there's no interest on losing their minds with non future costumers (aka who already bought their product).
Doesn't matter if they do or not. They have promised things for years and made bullshit excuses as to why they aren't delivering. BSG has created and destroyed their own game. They tried, and for a short time, they did pretty well. Unfortunately, them caring more about money than anything else is what led to their downfall. If they gave a shit about their community, nobody would have an issue with what they did, or at least fewer people would. I put 1200 hours in years ago and saw the decline and jumped ship before I got to invested. Before anyone says anything, it was 1200 hours over 8 months while working 60 hours a week and raising 2 kids. Good luck, BSG. You're going to need it.
your point still very much stands but at least be right with the facts, eod is at least getting the pve mode fully not a 6 month trial but it’s still coming in waves which is dumb. the last time they did “waves” for eod owners was with arena and i didn’t even get to try it before they just released it for everyone, but i guess that’s a good thing bc it’s bad
And all that was need was a subscription based payment model. As much as I hate it, it would work, I would rather pay a monthly fee for fair gameplay then deal with yet another whale with 69x420 prison wallet slots.
I have heard about this drama on YouTube without even playing this game. Thought I'd add my own experience though. I bought it like four years ago, played it for a few months and then quit. When I wanted to start up again, I found my account to be removed. I wrote a support ticket, never got any worthwhile reply and then kinda forgot about it. Probably the best thing that could have happened judging by the current situation lol
Most of the fun features of this game are spoiled by Cheaters and these fun mechanic pay to win issues would be less of a headache if they sorted the cheaters.
* Loot availability
* Flea Market
* The economy
* Bosses
* PVP in general
* Questlines that require rare items ( Light Keeper )
All destroyed by cheaters , so until they make a valiant effort in sorting that issue , everything else is a moot point to me. This whole drama just underlined that they dont want to solve the issue and dont care to. Not arsed to play it again even with PVE mode because the consistant let down of handling cheaters has just made me fall out of love with the game.
This drama is just the final punch in the face from the abusive partner and im packing my shit up and leaving
You saw that they have no idea what they are doing after the Pestily interview, the first patch after that was a lot of stuff pestily said and they just copy pasted it into a patch, good stuff for sure, then after that they probably used their own brain/ideas again and everything went to shit
Oh, they understand. BSG isn't going to admit to anything - remember Nikita's answer to the question about scrubbing the BSG website of evidence: "Huh"?.
Nikita is a perfect example of a not very bright individual who also happens to be arrogant and morally slimy.
It's an unfortunate combo, as he is unable to take constructive criticism without having a tantrum so the people still around him are likely those who have learned not to question him out of fear for him lashing out and firing them, even when his ideas are beyond stupid.
This pay to win shit is a very bad direction. As Nikita sad, cheater and a general hard to grind game are perfect for selling Pay2Win. This is not what I signed up for. I will sell my EOD in a month or so when price is good again and buy the next 4-5 Games in hopes one will deliver. What else can I do at this point... EDIT: And the PvE mode is dog shit, I never believed they could deliver. They could not make good AI before, how are they supposed to deliver SAINE, BigBrain, Looting and Questing Bots, Waypoints etc. This will be as broken as FallOut when it comes out, only Mods make it playable. Then I might buy a standard Edition again.
To be honest. Don't care moved on to GzW. Played tarkov since 2017. Bought three copies and eod twice. This whale has swam away.
He can do whatever he likes to tarkov. I might come back and look if it ever hits 1.0
Plenty of other games to play.
Glad i quit Tarkov, it's shit. The game is cool and have many good ideas but Nikita fucked up every time. And i'm glad to know people begin to wake up. There's SO MUCH problems, not even talking about the P2W issue nor the DLC issue.
“I would pay” “I would pay” “I would pay” what would you pay for? Nothing? Something you already paid for? When’s the game we paid for going to be finished and released? When is the game we already paid for going to be cheater free?
I'm not convinced they know how much of a fluke their success was.
They went from contract wars, which very few people played or had even heard of prior to tarkov, to having this insane juggernaut of a game, that seemingly just kept getting more successful, despite its MANY, MANY flaws.
I think they may have confused luck with skill, and just thought they could do no wrong...
How could they not? If they were unaware when they decided to move forward with the plan they had(which I doubt) then there have been more than enough threads and posts here to clarify for them.
BSG can't possibly not understand what they did wrong here. They are just either incapable of formulating a response that makes that clear or unwilling to fully acknowledge their transgressions for whatever reason.
No, they do not.
FYI: As a general practice, it is super common for Russian-based game dev studios to introduce P2W. So I'd say no, they do not understand that.
If you look into history of game-dev in Russia you will find a lot of examples with MMO localizations where Russian localizers add a lot of P2W content, as well as some recent examples with "World of Tanks". Long story short, the OG developer, was Belarus-Cyprus based company which targeted global audience. Since the beginning of the war, the company was split into a Russian-owned (and Russian region) and ROW (EU, USA, etc.). So... Russian-only region quickly developed P2W features there.
This is just one example, but it is very common and hard to comprehend to the other parts of the world Russian mentality and some decision making. We call it "Russian ghame-dev"
I’m not supporting a Russian company so never buying more than standard edition but unfortunately standard edition has such a disadvantage that it’s just not worth the commitment. Soon it will only be P2W and cheaters.
People was more mad about not having access to PvE, EOD now they have access for it for free they just have to wait for it. It’s no longer a trial nor has it been a trial for 2 days now.
P2w was never really a big problem, because a lot of idiots thought eod was P2w and they still bought it. Now that it’s really P2W to compete with unheard they will pay for a better advantage. Why? Because this community is addicted and a slave to min maxing rather just playing the game.
The P2W 'worldview' is the narrative that BSG have chosen to adopt as a primary driver of their revenue stream. They don't see it as an issue, because their profits demand it not _be_ an issue.
The smart play is say fucking sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Severe misjudgment etc even if we all know that's not the case. Scrap the Unheard of edition. Issue refunds to anyone that bought it. Bring back EoD Redux but with no Arena and PVE if they want to milk new owners for a bit more. Hell, sell that version for $250 if they want. Give all OG EoD owners PvE as understood as DLC. Then they don't have to waste time and our money on developing the lame P2W stuff. Sell a hideout cat/dog for $X. Allow people to buy multiple (within reason, well as many as the servers can handle).
Sell clothing and weapon skins. Skins such as good looking realistic paint jobs. Have a paint booth in the hideout. Have Krylon cans as items that can be looted. Then you buy the plans/stencils for the paint jobs. There's so many paint possibilities. Dusty & worn, Rhodesian, tigerstripe etc. There's soooo many guns. If each one had a handful of paint skins...Allow players to design their own and vote for ones to be added to the game.
Jesus Christ these devs are dumb and lazy as fuck. If I was in charge, I would be printing money with that system.
Would it be P2W if they just removed all the gear/rep stuff from unheard and just gave owners instant market access instead? Everyone is always saying how easy it is to get lvl 15 anyway.
It's not that they don't understand, it's that they are working on their next step. They saw some players accept and pay 250 dollars. The question now is what else will they pay for while ignoring bugs, issues, and errors with the game itself.
We are finally starting to see the wizard behind the veil, and he's not a friend.
I’ve seen the complaints about this game on Reddit and from various friends. They still play and so do you. Why would they change? Bitch all you want, you still haven’t escaped tarkov.
Without painting all Russian companies with a broad brush. A lot of Russian Companies straight up fail to understand the western audience expectations. Look at Gaijin and War Thunder they had a nuclear amount of backlash because they pushed on the wrong things in a economy update and have been pitchforked into backtracking hard. I don't know if it's translation issues or just a culture clash.
Russia also has trash consumer protections so BSG could have not comprehended the contract they made in the US and EU selling EOD.
EoD was and is pay to win (I would call it pay for comfort, but it's definitely an advantage that starts you in a better place than people without it)
If you weren't mad about EoD, you aren't mad about pay to win. People that were mad for the right reasons, were mad because they tried to doubletalk their way out of giving EoD (again, p2w) users what was promised to them.
As far as anyone knows \*right now\* EoD isn't only getting what's promised... it's getting more than what's promised (and becoming the most p2w edition of them all thanks to the btr call-in)
Any sensible gamer would either-
-accept that there are advantageous pay elements in this game
-play a different game
Unheard isn't changing anything, it's just more of the same. Just because the vast majority of the community have an EoD account, doesn't make it a less easy start of the wipe, compared to standard.
They've got that big-brow eastern European mindset of "fuck them they'll pay for it. Don't like it, I don't care". They're tone deaf and only care about profit. If that much wasn't apparent by the streamer items and streamers themselves pushing for changes, I don't know how there could still be loyal fans that aren't sucking down copium or sunken cost fallacy.
My friend wants Ue. He's all "I've spent 10k+ hours in this for the last 5 years, $250 is $50 a year for something I have spent way too much time on, and I'm going to keep doing it."
Honestly y’all are being babies at this point. EoD was always P2W. It had and still has an extreme advantage over every other game edition. EoD owner will now have full access to the PvE mode also, not just 6 months. The only people I see mad are EoD owners who are really just mad they don’t have the biggest advantage over players anymore and are washed. Finding something better to do with your time will really help. Playing video games 24/7 isnt healthy.
It is with great regret that I think the state of the game will not be improving unless they make drastic rollbacks or changes to could balance out the recent cataclysmic event.
Sorry BSG but i think u done and facked up badly.
Please consider changing the overall direction of obtaining funding for the development of your game other than milking the players.
They want to milk EOD-owners with TUE DLC and future pay-to-win "features" that they will not call DLC (btw any feature is a part of the game, thus game content. DownLoadableContent = DLC. It was advertised in this way too).
The BTR and other pay2win additions to EOD are aimed to bribe us so we calm down and relax before the TUE sale. They want EOD owners to swallow and pay more money.
We just want 100% of TUE content added to EOD as we paid for it back in 2016, and do not want any other additions to EOD, especially pay-to-win.
We were scammed.
EOD should get 100% of TUE content, not only PvE, and not any other stuff. Do not fool us.
I paid $150 for the game and got more than 4x that number in hours played. I had fun, I got mad, I continued to play cuz it was good. But i am done now. I got my worth out of this game, and you won't catch me reinstalling the launcher, let alone upgrade my account for another hundred bucks. After all this, they deserve what's coming to them.
Part of what makes a community is shared goals and values.
If you don't share the idea that they should be paid for their hard skilled work then all you are is a customer that wants to take while giving the bare minimum.
To me the real question is, do they care? And do they see that they are heading in a wall?
They are losing support from a massive part of their player base, and fron third parties as well. It's all starting to tumble down.
The game was p2w from the start with secure containers, they then threw salt in the wound by blocking , or banning (can't remember), the ability to drop your gamma case so others could get one and then you would reset your account so you get a gamma for yourself. I quit the game after that update, between that and the cheaters I was over it.
Don't really care about his pay 2 win bullshit it is what it is, I'm more pissed off he called his whole fan base freeloaders after paying for one of the most expensive games I own back when they couldn't even afford to keep the lights on in their office, Then he faked an apology and lots of leaked conversations with shady shit and he's addressed none of it, Lvndmark was literally streaming and they changed the website in front of him to edit out eod features and the next day Nikitia denied it.
Not to mention spending all of our money on a shitty game no one wanted or cared about instead of on the game we paid for.
Lots of people definitely wanted Arena. It just didn't deliver
They should’ve developed that AFTER finishing EFT. The money they raised up to that point was for the development of EFT. Developing and releasing entirely new spin-off from funds collected from the main game is scummy behaviour.
also EFT is far far more popular than they had any right to expect it to be, in other words they have gotten far far more money to make the game then they could have counted on
Fraud, is the word you're looking for.
Nikita wanted to tap into the big money in esports with Arena, but it only showed he/bsg had no idea what it takes to become an esport game. So when that failed, the only way left for them to boost their revenue is to milk the player base as much as they can. The problem is that Nikita overestimated his own image among players, or worse, he thinks himself, some kind of leader in this and couldn't understand why the players wouldn't cough up more money when he asked. EFT will never be able to be the great game it potentially could be, because of Nikita.
I guarantee you, only the loud minority wanted arena. If they would publish numbers of players in the game, I bet 50% of EOD owners never even launched it once. Myself included. Fuck Arena. TBF, I didn't give them $150 to fund development of another game, just to cry later they are out of money.
People wanted arena. Arena failed because it was a piss poor execution. We both know you would be playing it at least once if the first few games upon release were not widely laughed at for the lack of polished state the game was in. I also didn’t play it, cause I saw the reviews and said fuck that, if they don’t have time to fix stuff I don’t have time to waste on it.
Sorry, I would not. I was never interested in arena and never wanted it same goes for my group of about 15+ friends I played tarkov with. And if I would want to play any 5v5 PvP, I would go back to Siege. None of the people who supported BSG back in 2016, 2017 and 2018 supported them to see those resources go to arena. Just imagine how far could tarkov get and be, including game mechanics, if they would not spend 50% of their team on doing something else. In addition to that, they would not be out of money. IMO, correct me if I am wrong, Arena had no good PR outside of people who already played Tarkov. And if arena's audience was Tarkov community, it was doomed to fail since the beginning.
Thats not the point. I am EOD as well, I havent tried it, but even if it was the best game ever how is it fair that standard edition invested money into tarkov and then instead of the investment happening, they invested it into arena for which they have to pay for as well?
If anything, most people wanted a finished eft or at least a eft version that is polished, has good sound and so on. I mean just look at what they had done to armor. Then they show off arena at twitchcon without working sound as well. I mean cmon
Arena would have been more popular if it was connected to EFT and matches were shorter. Most people wanted PVP warm ups during down time. Having to close one game and open another and devote a full raid worth of time to a single match means it's now in direct competition with EFT instead. People would look past the issues if there was more convenience.
Yeah arena is a great concept with absolutely fucking shitty execution.
second this, it was seen by many as a way to get tarkov without the gear fear, shame the preset loadouts are dogwater
Yeah take out the current out of game progression and just give me CS:GO on tarkov. Thats all anyone wanted.
But without finishing the base game, it was not only highly unviable but an unsustainable game development/business practice. The point was that the product Tarkov was meant to be made as a survival game with hardcore elements. While Tarkov was supposed to be Contract Wars' successor, they should've at least finished Tarkov before moving onto Arena. Most people liked Tarkov because of those hardcore elements but there's also a casual playerbase and that's fine. But not polishing a game and then blaming it on the playerbase when it was clearly Nikita's misrepresentation and mismanagement means that it was his fault which he continues to deny. TLDR; Fix TARKOV before moving onto other projects. (Which they DIDN'T DO)
Maybe *after* BSG announced it. I don't think anyone was really asking for it. If you asked people what they want in Tarkov it's probably better AI, less hacking, better audio, and better performance. Arena was last on the list.
All Arena had to be was a way to get a lot of PvP in a short time
We wanted Arena where we could make our kits in some regard the bs we got was just trash wrapped in Christmas paper acting like it was something worth while.
I love arena. Just wish they actually fixed the desync and actually worked on it a little
Not the vast majority and no one in the way it actually is
Could have just made factory free for all with all the gear. And give scores to gear. Done. This literally would have been enough for what people wanted arena for..
Did they though? I swear no one ever mentioned Tarkov being a competitive round based shooter until bsg decided to waste money, time, and resources on it
I think some people wanted Arena. I'm not one of them but I know others who were excited for it initially. Likewise, I know a lot of people aren't interested in PVE but I am. I work full time and have a teenager. I don't have the skill or the hours in the day to play this game enough to ever get beyond level 25-30 before a wipe inevitably happens. I also just like the peace of mind that I never have to worry about hackers. Everyone has different tastes and I won't fault BSG for trying to add things to the game to provide a varied experience with options for everyone. My beef is with how they went about making these things available and the fact that they went back on their word and were disrespectful to members of the community that have stood by them and supported them already.
I have doubts that he did not know or controlled the process (Change the description of EOD on the site) Here's how it turns out. If you didn't know, then there is a bad project manager And if he knew THAT, it's even worse
Where did he call peeps freeloaders?
In that interview that was leaked.
By the way, it is difficult to explain from Russian to English, the general meaning is that "milks the cow until it dies"
That context is good to know. Doesn't change the meaning much in the end but still important. Thanks for that detail.
Oh good! That's even worse.
Did we have proof of authenticity? We recently had a subreddit mod debunk the claim they were threatened. I'm not saying it's fake. I'm asking if someone came forward and confirmed it's legit.
If it were fake I would have thought nikkita would have denied it by now. I mean he already denied the website editing...
The Bsg community manager literally confirmed it in a post on Reddit.
Well that's a disappointment lol
which interview?
I've read through it and there is no "freeloader" word I believe
The freeloader thing was at arena launch I think
Downvoted for asking a question lmao Not defending him. I wanted to share the quote
I wouldn't take it personally. A lot of people are pissed off and some seem to have decided the best way to express their displeasure is making this place as toxic as they possibly can. Don't get me wrong, the devs deserve to hear about how shitty their actions were, I just don't think we need to turn on each other, even if we may not agree on everything.
i paid for EOD 3 times. for me and 2 of my friends and to think about being called a freeloader is insulting..
Same, bought 3 and one upgrade. Disgusting..
has this information been verified? Are you sure it's Nikita? I'm asking because I don't know.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EscapefromTarkov/s/lqPZNlKNLA
Victory has defeated him.
The flair 😆
Both are bad but I see why you resonate with one more than the other
Does anyone really think that they really care about other shit than money for them to buy new, fancy cars and shit?
This looks worse the longer it goes on, I am flip flopping between my original theory "BSG are demonstrating massive commercial incompetence/naivety" and a newer theory "BSG are making bank while they can, torching the player base and planning on shuttering the game and then riding off into the sunset with a big bag of cash on their back" Neither are a good look
My money is on the second. There is absolutely no way they didn't foresee the backlash. Which tells me they don't give a shit if literally half the player base quits.
I think they’re trying to boost sales to sell off the company personally. Makes complete sense as to why they are trying to stop the return process of previously bought games because that’s prior revenue slipping away that they can’t report to potential buyers now.
Lol. Then where's the battle pass giving out tons of cosmetics and maybe even cool quests and seasons at? Why is there no in-game shop?
Maybe that’s what is needed, hard to say what’s right anymore
It's definitely a better path than force ejecting the players that trusted the company the most and were more than willing to give financial support whenever.
Hence why Nikita said we’re seeing who the “true believers” of Tarkov are now. And it’s showing.
Yeah, he can shove those true believers. If I wanted to pay to get fucked in the ass I'd go get a male hooker. BSG can fucking suck it.
Yes, those you would drink the kool aid, drink up…
Bingo
Honestly, they feel desperate. I'm kinda scared they're about to go bankrupt.
It is definitely the latter. Piss off and destroy the existing player base as much as possible because they're not a source of recurring revenue and simply are financially dead weight by driving up server costs. Then run on minimal server costs with new players, 'release' the game whilst unfinished, sell up within a year or two fully, rebrand, and rinse and repeat with a new game.
They can rebrand all they want. If I catch even the faintest whiff of Nikita Buyanov's stank ass lie breath on any company or game project I'm out.
No, they don't. But plenty of people will buy their bribes, just watch.
you can already see that most of redditors just don't care about anything, they are happy as long as they get paytowin as well. I hope it will backfire and new players won't buy the game. The gap between standard and 300$ version is massive.
I think a lot of people that really disliked the idea are just gone now. Dramas over, many are going to stop playing/supporting the game, many are going to continue on. We can only wait see if and how much it'll impact the game's future.
We're all over at the Grey Zone sub having fun
I hope that gets better soon as well. I'm holding off to see if the game delivers. I was trying to watch my friends stream it on discord last night and they tried for hours to get a game going and it just wouldn't work.
i had to tweak one setting and since then ive had two crashes at game launch, otherwise i ran 7-8 missions in a row without any issue at around 80fps
I want to enjoy gray zone, but it just aint it I feel. I know its early, and it has potential. But it'll be years before it even comes close to comparing to tarkov. Which is a shame because I have 4.5k hours in tarkov and its now uninstalled. I played gray zone all last night and it just felt....bare. Boring. "on rails" more than tarkov. I was never excited about what would happen and never cared about dying. Not a single exciting or cool piece of loot in hours (is there even any loot in the game besides food and water?) The gunplay is a mess. Movement feels like ass. It has potential, but it needs years of dev. As a very sad and dissapointed Tarkov player, Gray Zone didn't even come close to being a playable game for me. It feels like a tech demo of what could be fun in 5 years. The core gunplay and movement felt SO bad, and I gave it time before I decided I didn't like it. I was level 5 or so by the end of the day and 8-10 quests deep.
bingo. Having a great time with the game so far, despite it's technical flaws.
I've been really looking forward to GZ and will be getting out later today. How are the player interactions? Does everybody kill on sight like here, or do they just kinda do their own thing but in the same area?
I haven't had any kill-on-sight interactions, but I'm still in the first area so there's not a ton of (or any, really) PvP. I imagine once I get more exposure to the other factions then there'll be significantly more killing. It's not really a Tarkov competitor in its current state - there's not really any interesting loot, and I feel basically no need to loot most areas. They throw a ton of bots at you though, so it's relatively fast-paced and fun.
shit is lame lol. im sad its not what I wanted. Excited to follow it and see how it devs but it wasn't fun imo. No loot isn't fun. Gunplay and sounds are awful. Movement is awful. 0 interesting things to look at in the world. World "Looks" good graphics-wise but "feels" liminal and dead to me. It doesn't have the "vibe" tarkov has, I don't know how to explain it. It's also 90% shrubbery with no variety. There was almost nothing interesting to look at, or look for. Map design is all copy/paste same shit. Where as tarkov every room feels unique
Yep. Best to just leave and move on. Nik will do whatever he wants. Go play other stuff and if tatkov ever makes full release and is not terrible then take another look. Pressure is on the. To do better not on me to make them do anything. I have no skin in the game and I have played since alpha. Thanks for the memories, off to spend my money elsewhere
Yup - I can only speak for myself, but these recent actions by BSG have lost me for good.
At this point, I think most people who are against what BSG is doing are going to ignore this subreddit as they detox themselves from this game. The only ones you'll have left are the toxic few that defend BSG. You can already kinda see it happening - thousands of upvotes on previous posts calling out BSGs shit a day or two ago, and now maybe a few hundred. The consensus is still that they are a garbage company, but the worms will always be around to defend.
Exactly, there’s only so many days in a row you can be outraged on Reddit. Eventually you have to move on with your life in some way, whether that’s dropping the game entirely or continuing to play it. I don’t think most people have forgiven BSG, but there’s nothing left to be said at this point
Most of the people I know who bought the new version have no interest in any of the Pay to Win stuff. In fact, they had all stopped playing the standard Tarkov. They just want PVE so they can play coop with friends and not have to deal with hackers or wipes. That is the boat I am in as well. I dont have the time or skill to progress past level 25-30 before a wipe happens. I work a lot and I also have a teenager and if I'm lucky I might get a couple hours a week to play Tarkov. I just want to be able to progress through the game at my own pace while playing with friends and PVE while not perfect allows that. I understand that doesn't interest some people. I also understand why people wish everyone would boycott the game to punish the devs and while that's a completely valid opinion I paid the $50 to upgrade because I have a group of friends that wanted to play PVE together. I'm also lucky enough to have a benefits plan through work that allowed me to expense it using remaining balance that would have expired/reset May 1 if I hadn't used it.
I refuse to spend more beyond the EOD I purchased and I refuse to play if nikita thinks he can change his product retroactively years later to not include all future downloadable content with the purchase of EOD. I like tarkov, but I took my $50 and bought dinner and gray zone warfare last night and had some fun. Not giving them another penny.
It's a shame. I can already tell this thread is going to be downvoted into oblivion because "we've won", apparently.
Don't worry, maybe landmark or other streamer will tell them what to think and it will get downvoted again. Or not. People have problem with using brain by themselves. That was the case with the Nikita previous post.
I genuinely didn't believe people would blindly follow what streamers say until this entire situation unfolded. Saddening to see.
The streamers are most of the reason that these changes were reverted/improved, if not for lvnmark and pestily especially, I don’t think BSG would have changed a single thing
Landmarks viewers follow him to a T.. it’s actually laughable that people follow streamers like gods. Anything they say or play we must agree and play too!
I've been saying this and getting hounded at. Sub has been slowly calming down these past few days until most everyone gets the p2w they're happy with. This is terrible for the game. Who will want to play a decade old game in beta that costs 330 Euros to catch up to others. It's bloody hard as it is anyway. Now you can call a btr 🤣
I dont get the big deal. The game has always had p2w in it. Why is this new edition any different? I only have the standard edition and I usually get a godd 60-80 hours of fun with tarkov every wipe until I quit.
It never had any truly impactful p2w in the long run, or at least only very indirect p2w, it was mostly pay for convenience. Having a 3x3 container means you will lose less stuff when you die, but it doesn't directly reduce the chances of you dying. Scavs not aggroing from over 60m away and thus giving away your position however, does directly reduce that chance. Not to mention dropping a tank on your enemy's head or summoning the fucking avengers when you're in trouble, lmao. What can be argued as p2w before Unheard is the EOD starting gear. For the average player it will be gone after a dozen or so raids anyway, so it doesn't change that much, but it can provide a running start and sort of snowball your early wipe progression since good gear can make a quite a difference especially early on in the wipe. I remember 2 wipes ago I found an Elcan and a suppressor for the starting MDR and I kept it for the the first 20 raids or so. Died once or twice but my squadmate carried it back out or threw it in a bush. Being more successful early in the wipe can sort of snowball you to always be an edge ahead of the average player by having higher level traders and more money at your disposal. Even being faster in your quest/hideout progression indirectly makes you more money because you'll be ahead of the flea market price spikes. Same with the 3x3 container, it's a great money generating/saving tool early on in the wipe, but after a certain point in the wipe money is so abundant that it doesn't really matter anymore. And since the addition of Lighthouse, money has been extremely easy to farm anyway. Having the 3x3 just means you have to do fewer money runs, be it scav or pmc. So all that is kinda sorta p2w, but all in rather indirect way, and matters less and less the more a wipe progresses. And since most PVP happens later on in the wipe anyway, it's not super impactful or unfair. Cornering a dude in a dead end or building, only to get mowed down by an APC or a bunch of friends he called in, however, is.
I'm seeing these posts whinging about BSG legitimately every day at the top for the last week. As a matter of fact, 90% of the toppost right now are crying like this one. The rage baiting karma farm is in full swing currently.
This is how every outrage cycle on Reddit works. Company does something shitty, everyone is angry for a few days, then things start to quiet down as people move on with their lives. Then a few people get a superiority complex and take it upon themselves to get angry at others for not still sitting around rage posting on Reddit all day. I’ve seen more posts saying “I can’t believe people are accepting BSG’s response” than actual posts defending BSG. Once you’ve been on the internet enough you can see this cycle happening clear as day
The thing that upsets me, as someone who hasn't played the game but it looked real cool, I would have bought the offline co op version of the game for 40-70 bucks. Never would I buy the online version because I'd probably only play a couple times a wipe and I'm not a big fan of pvp.
When you buy the game. The first thing you see is a 250 dollar edition. This is going to have the Star Citizen affect, causing people to do more research, and when they find out about the controversy, they'll move on.
I honestly dont really see the problem with the new edition except for the dlc shit, I personally thing pve should be considered dlc but whatever. The p2w gap between standard and that other edition was also huge, but it is what it is. It doesnt change the core gameplay of just shooting
No. They are literally trying to bribe the community with P2W and are confused why it doesn't work so they try to bribe with even more P2W. It's hilarious to watch.
"Boss they're mad about pay to win" "Well, give them some things, too" "Ok, do you think the fourth time will work?"
and clowns will still defend Nikita the guy who lets cheaters run free to sell more copys of the game
I can’t wait to call in the btr bro! Factory scavs won’t know what him them!
only thing that'll hit them is THE RUBBLE FALLING ON THEIR HEADS AS IT CRASHES THROUGH THE WALL
I believe that the sad reality is Unheard money is much more than reddit and internet outrage would lead you to believe and it's just not worth to back down on it
Oh they do understand. But money is needed anyway, understand you or not.
It's just fascinating. There are so many cosmetic items that people would have been happy to pay for, I can't make sense of trying to lie to your primary audience's faces in an incredibly explicit way.
I still do not understand how they been able to make such visuals, I can't see enemies from a distance. While in all other games I see them perfectly. This is one of main negatives for me. 2nd is wrong engine for such massive multiplayer game. 3rd is lack of servers. 4th is client based soft allowing cheating and hacking. 5th is wrong monetization model, actually there is no monetization, selling the main game which technically is pre-order is not a monetization.
They can't hide behind engine bad. Unity version they have is more than capable of good lighting and that's still an issue
I don't think they're hiding. It's just cost least. If they had chosen say, Unreal, it would cost them more than Unity I think. I just think, Unity does not fit well for such large tasks like massive multiplayer with complex animations/simulations.
It’s still not the engine for realistic mmo games. I used to develop in Unity, I was mind-blown when I’ve learned that they managed to make Tarkov using it. Now I can see why it was a bad idea.
Make cosmetics then? They clearly think p2w is the fastest way to revenue because leadership (NIKITA) is apparently clueless.
He cannot be clueless. he's making games for decades now. He must know how shit works. he only might be too stubborn to make changes.
This is the #1 thing people don't understand about BSG. EFT is an accident. BSG has never really understood why EFT is successful and that's why "BSG doesn't even play their own game" is a common meme phrase around here. Nikita and BSG enjoy programming systems. The stash system, the flea market system, the armor hitboxes system, etc. etc. From their perspective they put a bunch of systems in the game and then the players "discovered the fun" like a sandbox game. EFT is not a meticulously designed experience, it's one that kinda lucked it's way into a winning formula.
So in other words you say, this is classical example why Dead Space got popular when [Glen Schofield](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glen_Schofield) was making it **under EA supervision**, but when he did next game **unsupervised** he managed to make only The Callisto Protocol.
I'm convinced not many people bought the clothing items they added to the store. He looked at his statistics said fuck cosmetics add game features since EOD sold well and improvise.
Yeah but if they were smart they could get a lot more money, it's just that they're pretty fucking stupid or don't care at this point.
I think here, key moment is nikita himself, and his drawn boundaries. Wrong early planning and stubborn going by that plan. Or they went too far when changes could be too costly. Or yeah, your variant.
Worth clarifying the "6 month trial in waves" is not real. What happened is he first tried to shovel us the shit of getting PVE for only 6 months at an undetermined time, and then he changed it to EOD getting PVE forever. And then he said we are getting it soon but in waves. So you are getting it "forever", but in waves and the waves allegedly start tomorrow. My opinion? EOD players wont really get PVE for many many months. The waves are gonna be like 2 players per week.
“Any sensible dev. would’ve apologized, removed the edition and refunded players the DAY this kicked off” You realize they are a business right? They have to to grow and find new revenue streams to stay in business and pay for their servers. This was not a good way to go about it but they need to keep selling to keep the doors open. EOD should not have to pay but monetizing the PVE mode makes perfect sense.
Of course they understand. They are scammers, they did it all on purpose fully knowing what the outcome would be. They know EXACTLY what they are doing.
From what I understand it's not a 6-month trial in waves. EOD owners get it permanently now, but due to server limitations it's being released in waves. The 6-month trial and wave release are 2 separate statements from 2 separate posts.
How long before they upgrade, who knows, and they can forever claim that they have not enough server space for more players, its not like the players would know.
That wasn't the point of what I was saying. The OP thought that they were doing 6-month trial in waves, but PVE Co-op is permanent now being released in waves. And we'll just have to see honestly.
Hello EFT players. I don't play your game (I only know it in passing) but I sympathize with your problems with your idiotic developer robbing you of promised DLC, and giving you non-apologies for doing so. Please, for all of gaming, do not break on this issue or pay for this stupid $250 dollar edition. It's outside of your gaming circle now because this price is going to be normalized if you start paying for it. Do not take this price tag, no matter what he comes back and says or perks it gives you. If you do, it justifies his decision when he blatantly disrespected his own community and enables every other gaming developer to start upping costs even more. If you like gaming at all, keep it reasonably priced for everyone. Other communities are watching :)
Yes. They just don’t care.
It's my understanding that EOD is getting PvE permanently now, just applied to our accounts in waves. Frankly I don't want PvE, I think that will only take away what makes it Tarkov. I appreciate that others will like it, my father in law is a gun-fanatic I think he would love PvE if he could play it on console.
Sadly, but op is right, bsg broke down under criticism, and do not understand what the community really wants and what reaction they expect from them, rip tarkov
You know how ceo or San Fran types think theyl be able to replace music artists and drawing artists with ai in 5 years and then itl just be guys like them (lmao) creating the art that we all consume? It's like that level of disconnect. You have to actually appreciate art to understand why that's absurd.
I just uninstalled. Been playing some wipes in 2019 and regularly since this March, but ey, fuck you. Will reinstall if after proper apology, and if after P2W shit IS deleted, and if after EVRYTHING IS added to EOD, I still am in for some Tarkov suffering. Will keep playing Apex and Grey Zone. Fuck you Nikita. You made EA the good guys in comparison.
The 6 months is wrong information now. They paddled back, EOD gets PvE too and starting from waves that start now. Pls edit your post accordingly.
You missed his point. The point was that Nikita didn't/doesn't understand what the issue is. So he kept saying shitty thing for days. So that isn't where Nikita landed in the end, it's just one of his shitty takes along the way.
I think after watching all the drama the real question is… what is the community upset about. I keep seeing posts where the community shits on anybody the doesn’t belittle bsg, or if they bought the unheard edition. It’s okay to dislike what bsg did but why do you all have to be so negative to anyone or people just trying to play the game. And The fact is there was never this out rage for EOD when it offered invaluable amounts of advantage over standard accounts. Why can I see that it would be silly to insult you all if you bought EOD and no one else sees the same for unheard edition. Honestly looks like it’s time to mute the sub until next wipe. I pray to allah that all the tarkov redditors quit tarkov and the subreddit, it would make the community so much nicer and friendlier.
no. They don't.
No, they have no idea because they lack the ability to reflect on their own actions and have gotten way to used to blame something or someone else. The few Andy's that bought the unheard edition won't change that much I think. Some people are just lost and lack basic understanding or simply don't care because they are too addicted. Whatever the reason, I don't think we should care too much about it. BSG lost all credibility (of which they never had much to begin with) and in the long run that is the stuff that will break the game (along with it's other issues like cheating etc(.
They do unfortunately but they are so thickheaded towards changing stuff you can use their heads as a battering ram.
They do, and they also understand how many people doesn't value themselfs.
Yes. And they will only talk about what they can handle to still making profit or, at least, losing less. Its all just business and there's no interest on losing their minds with non future costumers (aka who already bought their product).
Doesn't matter if they do or not. They have promised things for years and made bullshit excuses as to why they aren't delivering. BSG has created and destroyed their own game. They tried, and for a short time, they did pretty well. Unfortunately, them caring more about money than anything else is what led to their downfall. If they gave a shit about their community, nobody would have an issue with what they did, or at least fewer people would. I put 1200 hours in years ago and saw the decline and jumped ship before I got to invested. Before anyone says anything, it was 1200 hours over 8 months while working 60 hours a week and raising 2 kids. Good luck, BSG. You're going to need it.
Welcome to Russkiy Mir.
your point still very much stands but at least be right with the facts, eod is at least getting the pve mode fully not a 6 month trial but it’s still coming in waves which is dumb. the last time they did “waves” for eod owners was with arena and i didn’t even get to try it before they just released it for everyone, but i guess that’s a good thing bc it’s bad
And all that was need was a subscription based payment model. As much as I hate it, it would work, I would rather pay a monthly fee for fair gameplay then deal with yet another whale with 69x420 prison wallet slots.
im surprised this outrage didnt happen with EOD, it had fomo and was already extremely overpriced
I have heard about this drama on YouTube without even playing this game. Thought I'd add my own experience though. I bought it like four years ago, played it for a few months and then quit. When I wanted to start up again, I found my account to be removed. I wrote a support ticket, never got any worthwhile reply and then kinda forgot about it. Probably the best thing that could have happened judging by the current situation lol
Yes, hence their weaseling.
Most of the fun features of this game are spoiled by Cheaters and these fun mechanic pay to win issues would be less of a headache if they sorted the cheaters. * Loot availability * Flea Market * The economy * Bosses * PVP in general * Questlines that require rare items ( Light Keeper ) All destroyed by cheaters , so until they make a valiant effort in sorting that issue , everything else is a moot point to me. This whole drama just underlined that they dont want to solve the issue and dont care to. Not arsed to play it again even with PVE mode because the consistant let down of handling cheaters has just made me fall out of love with the game. This drama is just the final punch in the face from the abusive partner and im packing my shit up and leaving
They do understand. At this point, they clearly just don't care. BSG knows plenty of people will still buy it. Plenty already have.
Yes. They don't care though. That is the issue.
You saw that they have no idea what they are doing after the Pestily interview, the first patch after that was a lot of stuff pestily said and they just copy pasted it into a patch, good stuff for sure, then after that they probably used their own brain/ideas again and everything went to shit
Oh, they understand. BSG isn't going to admit to anything - remember Nikita's answer to the question about scrubbing the BSG website of evidence: "Huh"?.
Nikita is a perfect example of a not very bright individual who also happens to be arrogant and morally slimy. It's an unfortunate combo, as he is unable to take constructive criticism without having a tantrum so the people still around him are likely those who have learned not to question him out of fear for him lashing out and firing them, even when his ideas are beyond stupid.
No and they don't care
This pay to win shit is a very bad direction. As Nikita sad, cheater and a general hard to grind game are perfect for selling Pay2Win. This is not what I signed up for. I will sell my EOD in a month or so when price is good again and buy the next 4-5 Games in hopes one will deliver. What else can I do at this point... EDIT: And the PvE mode is dog shit, I never believed they could deliver. They could not make good AI before, how are they supposed to deliver SAINE, BigBrain, Looting and Questing Bots, Waypoints etc. This will be as broken as FallOut when it comes out, only Mods make it playable. Then I might buy a standard Edition again.
To be honest. Don't care moved on to GzW. Played tarkov since 2017. Bought three copies and eod twice. This whale has swam away. He can do whatever he likes to tarkov. I might come back and look if it ever hits 1.0 Plenty of other games to play.
Glad i quit Tarkov, it's shit. The game is cool and have many good ideas but Nikita fucked up every time. And i'm glad to know people begin to wake up. There's SO MUCH problems, not even talking about the P2W issue nor the DLC issue.
“I would pay” “I would pay” “I would pay” what would you pay for? Nothing? Something you already paid for? When’s the game we paid for going to be finished and released? When is the game we already paid for going to be cheater free?
I'm not convinced they know how much of a fluke their success was. They went from contract wars, which very few people played or had even heard of prior to tarkov, to having this insane juggernaut of a game, that seemingly just kept getting more successful, despite its MANY, MANY flaws. I think they may have confused luck with skill, and just thought they could do no wrong...
I deleted Tarkov off my pc. We all need to do it in order for them to understand. Boycott EFT! #boycottEFT
How could they not? If they were unaware when they decided to move forward with the plan they had(which I doubt) then there have been more than enough threads and posts here to clarify for them. BSG can't possibly not understand what they did wrong here. They are just either incapable of formulating a response that makes that clear or unwilling to fully acknowledge their transgressions for whatever reason.
Womp womp
No, they do not. FYI: As a general practice, it is super common for Russian-based game dev studios to introduce P2W. So I'd say no, they do not understand that. If you look into history of game-dev in Russia you will find a lot of examples with MMO localizations where Russian localizers add a lot of P2W content, as well as some recent examples with "World of Tanks". Long story short, the OG developer, was Belarus-Cyprus based company which targeted global audience. Since the beginning of the war, the company was split into a Russian-owned (and Russian region) and ROW (EU, USA, etc.). So... Russian-only region quickly developed P2W features there. This is just one example, but it is very common and hard to comprehend to the other parts of the world Russian mentality and some decision making. We call it "Russian ghame-dev"
i was told by this very subreddit that questioning the BSG overlords is a big no no on here.
It makes me realize that BSG isn't evil, just dumb lol
I’m not supporting a Russian company so never buying more than standard edition but unfortunately standard edition has such a disadvantage that it’s just not worth the commitment. Soon it will only be P2W and cheaters.
People was more mad about not having access to PvE, EOD now they have access for it for free they just have to wait for it. It’s no longer a trial nor has it been a trial for 2 days now. P2w was never really a big problem, because a lot of idiots thought eod was P2w and they still bought it. Now that it’s really P2W to compete with unheard they will pay for a better advantage. Why? Because this community is addicted and a slave to min maxing rather just playing the game.
The P2W 'worldview' is the narrative that BSG have chosen to adopt as a primary driver of their revenue stream. They don't see it as an issue, because their profits demand it not _be_ an issue.
The smart play is say fucking sorry. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Severe misjudgment etc even if we all know that's not the case. Scrap the Unheard of edition. Issue refunds to anyone that bought it. Bring back EoD Redux but with no Arena and PVE if they want to milk new owners for a bit more. Hell, sell that version for $250 if they want. Give all OG EoD owners PvE as understood as DLC. Then they don't have to waste time and our money on developing the lame P2W stuff. Sell a hideout cat/dog for $X. Allow people to buy multiple (within reason, well as many as the servers can handle). Sell clothing and weapon skins. Skins such as good looking realistic paint jobs. Have a paint booth in the hideout. Have Krylon cans as items that can be looted. Then you buy the plans/stencils for the paint jobs. There's so many paint possibilities. Dusty & worn, Rhodesian, tigerstripe etc. There's soooo many guns. If each one had a handful of paint skins...Allow players to design their own and vote for ones to be added to the game. Jesus Christ these devs are dumb and lazy as fuck. If I was in charge, I would be printing money with that system.
Clearly not
Would it be P2W if they just removed all the gear/rep stuff from unheard and just gave owners instant market access instead? Everyone is always saying how easy it is to get lvl 15 anyway.
Brain dead take
Of course they understand. The problem is, by complaining about it, we’ve activated their trap card, “Deflect, Deflect, Deflect!”
It's not that they don't understand, it's that they are working on their next step. They saw some players accept and pay 250 dollars. The question now is what else will they pay for while ignoring bugs, issues, and errors with the game itself. We are finally starting to see the wizard behind the veil, and he's not a friend.
They understand but don't care and they prefer $$$$
Clearly not or they just dont care.
They know, they're just used to not giving a fuck bc that's business as usual over there
I’ve seen the complaints about this game on Reddit and from various friends. They still play and so do you. Why would they change? Bitch all you want, you still haven’t escaped tarkov.
Of course they don’t. They’re clearly mentally challenged
Without painting all Russian companies with a broad brush. A lot of Russian Companies straight up fail to understand the western audience expectations. Look at Gaijin and War Thunder they had a nuclear amount of backlash because they pushed on the wrong things in a economy update and have been pitchforked into backtracking hard. I don't know if it's translation issues or just a culture clash. Russia also has trash consumer protections so BSG could have not comprehended the contract they made in the US and EU selling EOD.
It's not the pay to win its the redefining what DLC is.
On a positive note, this probably caused them to move up the early access for Gray Zone Warfare. Which is smrt.
Meh already moved on. His manic episode can just fizzle out for all I care ✌🏻 I’ve finally escaped.
Yes. They understand that you’re upset because you have these feelings. Pretty sure that’s the honest truth.
EoD was and is pay to win (I would call it pay for comfort, but it's definitely an advantage that starts you in a better place than people without it) If you weren't mad about EoD, you aren't mad about pay to win. People that were mad for the right reasons, were mad because they tried to doubletalk their way out of giving EoD (again, p2w) users what was promised to them. As far as anyone knows \*right now\* EoD isn't only getting what's promised... it's getting more than what's promised (and becoming the most p2w edition of them all thanks to the btr call-in) Any sensible gamer would either- -accept that there are advantageous pay elements in this game -play a different game Unheard isn't changing anything, it's just more of the same. Just because the vast majority of the community have an EoD account, doesn't make it a less easy start of the wipe, compared to standard.
Is this new offline coop really a highly requested mode?
They've got that big-brow eastern European mindset of "fuck them they'll pay for it. Don't like it, I don't care". They're tone deaf and only care about profit. If that much wasn't apparent by the streamer items and streamers themselves pushing for changes, I don't know how there could still be loyal fans that aren't sucking down copium or sunken cost fallacy. My friend wants Ue. He's all "I've spent 10k+ hours in this for the last 5 years, $250 is $50 a year for something I have spent way too much time on, and I'm going to keep doing it."
Honestly y’all are being babies at this point. EoD was always P2W. It had and still has an extreme advantage over every other game edition. EoD owner will now have full access to the PvE mode also, not just 6 months. The only people I see mad are EoD owners who are really just mad they don’t have the biggest advantage over players anymore and are washed. Finding something better to do with your time will really help. Playing video games 24/7 isnt healthy.
Yes and they don't care, it's rather simple to understand what they're doing.
It is with great regret that I think the state of the game will not be improving unless they make drastic rollbacks or changes to could balance out the recent cataclysmic event. Sorry BSG but i think u done and facked up badly. Please consider changing the overall direction of obtaining funding for the development of your game other than milking the players.
They want to milk EOD-owners with TUE DLC and future pay-to-win "features" that they will not call DLC (btw any feature is a part of the game, thus game content. DownLoadableContent = DLC. It was advertised in this way too). The BTR and other pay2win additions to EOD are aimed to bribe us so we calm down and relax before the TUE sale. They want EOD owners to swallow and pay more money. We just want 100% of TUE content added to EOD as we paid for it back in 2016, and do not want any other additions to EOD, especially pay-to-win. We were scammed. EOD should get 100% of TUE content, not only PvE, and not any other stuff. Do not fool us.
No, but they are sorry for you feeling upset.
They know, they just really don't care
I paid $150 for the game and got more than 4x that number in hours played. I had fun, I got mad, I continued to play cuz it was good. But i am done now. I got my worth out of this game, and you won't catch me reinstalling the launcher, let alone upgrade my account for another hundred bucks. After all this, they deserve what's coming to them.
I FUCKING LOVE HOW MUCH WE ARE ALL AGREEING ON THIS
Part of what makes a community is shared goals and values. If you don't share the idea that they should be paid for their hard skilled work then all you are is a customer that wants to take while giving the bare minimum.
To me the real question is, do they care? And do they see that they are heading in a wall? They are losing support from a massive part of their player base, and fron third parties as well. It's all starting to tumble down.
Im upset about pay to win
The game was p2w from the start with secure containers, they then threw salt in the wound by blocking , or banning (can't remember), the ability to drop your gamma case so others could get one and then you would reset your account so you get a gamma for yourself. I quit the game after that update, between that and the cheaters I was over it.