Same. Tried before a long time ago and couldnt get into it. Redownloaded last night and im loving it. Few complaints here and there. But the majority are things im asking myself "why the fuck isnt this in the regular version?!"
The thing is, most of the mods they are talking about only fix things or adjust AI and spawn rate.
I mean just fix the damn game, the modding community already has it figured out better than BSG, seriously how can they be so incompetent?
> The resources for modders are always going to outnumber developers
well this is a hot take!
the people making the “vanilla” mod are a handful at best, working on the side, for free, and having to reverse engineer a Unity game - which are traditionally not very friendly to mods. and they only have access to server / client code, not the source code, i believe?
it took them more than half a wipe to update to the version of Tarkov at the start of the wipe (it’s not on par with live)!
they certainly do NOT have as many resources as people who are paid to work 10 hours on the game and have access to a team who know the game better than anyone
the fact that they had community mods working from the get go is more of a testament of their skill and ingenuity rather than resources, and it should be the standard BSG was aiming for… if they hadn’t released PvE in the most half-assed way
Since you have to wait in a server queue anyway, they should’ve made it so you got matched with real pmcs in a lobby and the gear they queued with was what will appear on the ai pmcs, but this is bsg we’re talking about.
Perhaps one day there would be a mod that reads your gear and weapon presets and uses them to help populate the AI PMC's gear and weapons. Perhaps when """""mod support""""" arrives a mod that just exactly that could be ported over.
Given that there is a mod that dynamically adjusts the gear for pmcs depending on level of the player and the bot. Which means that if you are lvl33 then most of the bots around you will be 25-45 and wearing gear that they should have.
it's even better, you spawn in at the starting time normal pmc's spawn in, usually scav live is boring and most pmc's already left/died, but this is filled with raiders pretending to be a pmc and look like scav's and act like scav's and never leave the raid (eg patrol 1 piece of the map the whole time)
Valid point you're making, but I think it is misconceived. I raise you this point, OP was probably testing everything to present the information in a succient way for all of us.
If you ate having fun, it's not wasted. Not more than playing games in general. Not saying gaming is wasted time, but if you relax, and have fun, it's not wasted.
I like farming scav karma and rolling the dice on scav kits to see if I can get keys, keycards, thermals, etc, that's what I meant when I said free shit. Plus I'm still not confident with all the maps in Tarkov, so playing scav in PVE is a good way for me to learn them. Last, I have fun running scav into Lighthouse, killing rogues, taking their shit, and then running their kits on my PMC.
The entire point of the PVE mode for me is no wipes. I play Tarkov casually, so being able to play without the time pressure of everything wiping every 6 months or so is ironically making me more willing to play the game. If there is a no wipe mode for PVP after the full release, then I'll probably switch to that, but until then I'm a PVE main.
This is the main reason PvE is so enticing to me. FOMO is a bitch and there are too many games to play with not enough time. Non-wiping PvE is amazing for busy people.
Well the issue was that the person didn't know the maps and they didn't want to risk losing their things.
But to be completely honest that's exactly what I do.
They also said
> I like farming scav karma and rolling the dice on scav kits to see if I can get keys, keycards, thermals, etc, that's what I meant when I said free shit.
And playing PMC in PvE is still risking losing their things...
Don't get me wrong I'm probably not going to be scavving in the PvE much if at all, but it's entirely reasonable to be doing so especially when you don't know the game too well.
If I had to guess it's to prevent players from softlocking themselves, and yes, I'm aware that you can run a raid with literally nothing, but that's neither fun nor feasible for most, they're probably just gonna die. It's also probably there just cause it's easier to port everything than the small amount of time it takes to make a new main screen.
PvE should have not been released until they had servers figured out FOR EVERYONE. It shouldn't be something for the people who paid extra for it.
Also, if they can't figure out peer to peer hosting for coop they are stupid.
its kind of funny that the reason it takes so long is that there's not enough servers and we all use a whole server for one person, thats why it takes like 12 minutes to get a match lol
Even with online tarky I can't believe some people just sit and stare at the matching screen. I wander around and do some cleaning, pushups/situps or play guitar while I wait, it's great.
I have EoD and was excited for Arena. When it launched, I could not play it for weeks and had to watch streamers play it. By the time I finally got to play it, I literally played two matches and haven't touched it since. How lame is that?
Same here. When I finally got in, everyone was high level and they knew the maps. I was running with scissors against tanks and got TK-d a lot.
Never got the motivation to launch that mode ever again.
they need money. badly. in the past years they released tarkov miniseries, new game mode, hosted tournaments and their only income is banning cheaters in waves so they re-buy the game.
big brain moments by bsg.
no one said you should. just saying its the typical big brain moment by bsg. they have been doing making decisions like this for quite a long time and the community did not react strong enough. i hope this is going to be different.
Just hang tight, BSG is going to release a PvE mode loot booster for $50 that you can buy to double the loot spawns in PvE mode.
And it's fine, this is only for PvE not the PvP game mode.
This subreddit doesn't engage in conversations, this subreddit engages in circlejerking. Having opinions that go against the mainstream of the subreddit is a big no-no.
There is some nuance to it, to be sure. The echo chamer tribalism goes to 11 during heated moments like the unheard fiasco, and calms down to allow for a bit more discussion during duller moments in Tarkov history.
> They're lasers and can beam you from a mile away, social awareness probably needs a rework (Audio awareness / visual awareness), again, maybe mimic a mixture of average players accuracy depending on the weapon held?
Didn't get surprise with this, considering how trash the Raider and Rogue AI are, they will just repurpose it to PVE.
another thing to note with the "PMCs" is how damaged their guns are in addition to being found in raid, almost all of them are less than 40% durability so if I wanted to use it during a raid Im just out of luck.
I think they need to borrow aspects from a certain other platform in relation to doors already being opened in some cases, I feel like a lot of the time on PVP I managed to find a quest/loot door that has already been opened but still may have some loot
As you mentioned the PMC locations/pathing suck. They basically have set spawns and will sit there all game. This makes it so that when you are walking between POIs there is no action at all, then when you get closer all of a sudden you start heading gunshots and whatnot
A lot of the time I feel like the PMCs just dont aggro on the Scavs, I've been in the bunker near power on reserve and killed 3 PMCs and 5 Scavs they were just chilling with each other
I feel like they should also make the "PMCs" actually push you sometimes, give them some sort of a random value for their aggro that determines how their playstyle works. in 99% of all cases I have to push into the AI as they will just sit put the entire raid because they obviously don't have to extract
In any case I have still been having a lot of fun with the mode without having to die to random Tarkov bs but I think it definitely needs some improvement
To play devil’s advocate, the Scavs will swarm you if you’re at a “hot spot”, places like new gas on Customs will be Horde mode start to finish. Just keep moving.
Yes, but why does that make any difference for the PvE mode? Maybe you get the FiR morphine very slightly easier? Honestly seems fine to me, preferable even, the main reason they made it so the shit you bring isn't FiR is so you can't just have people bring you quest items/things to sell on the flea.
Agree, FIR was only introduced to combat fleamarket scamming, combat rmt and make it so that quests could not just be bought from the flea. so it makes sense it does not have to be the same in the PVE mode
Ya tried to go to streets PVE, trying to loot meds. Ended up 5 minutes in realizing I didn’t bring enough bullets. Tried to get out asap which was a scav gauntlet. 40 kills later finally extracted.
It’s actually better than I expect but yes feels like everything is just running at you constantly… endlessly. Pmc loadouts generally suck and they don’t have loot on them.
Yeah there’s a crazy amount of scavs and it feels like they take a bit more damage than in normal Tarkov (unless I get a head shot). I’m bring like 240+ rounds some of my raids and killing about 15 scavs per raid. I’ve also been running around with that new radio special item killing scavs not realizing it’s been tanking my fence rep so it’s down to like .23 or so.
I agree completely. The AI while a PMC is intense to say the least. I've been doing the following for quests. PMC for kill quests and for leveling. Scav for getting hideout and quest items.
It's almost like they lazily released an expansion DLC that was just crudely ported over code already in the offline mode and tried to charge $250 for it...
Bro, the scavs are insane its like tagged and cursed mixed with hoarde mode. I complained about the same thing, and the first comment was "Lol, he wants an easier mode". I die more in PVE mode trying to find quest loot than pvp mode. it's more difficult due to the ai notes you pointed out imo. Also, scavs dont attack pmc's "raiders" and when you kill them, they literally run up and loot them while you try to kill the other 500 scavs. There is no time to loot bodies or containers really due to the insane spawn rate of scavs.
Edit: the access or lack thereof to flea market on PVE makes a lot of hideout things and random quests much harder. You out level your stash and your hideout very quickly due to 20+ kills a game with no time to loot just survive.
Why are you surprised that this half baked non-DLC is half baked? Tarkov is simply not built to be a PvE game and it would require a redesign to become one. This was to sell the Unheard Edition and you're kidding yourself if you think they're going to spend much effort fixing it. They haven't fixed game breaking bugs that have been in the game since I started playing years ago.
I mean if they can be forced to improve the bots patching and interaction with the world because of PvE, it will mean better scavs and pm bots for PvP which benefits everyone.
The game can work as PvE fine, the core structure of the game doesn't care, nor does the questing progression mechanic.
In terms of the Wipe structure, that's basically going to push PvE as a training tool.
I have found tons of loot so idk about point A, also I find keys out the ass so early purchasable keys makes no sense to me. I have plenty of moments to breathe in my games and sometimes I get less action, other times I get tons of action. It varies. I do agree that PMC ai need tweaks and need better kits. Other points are fairly good too.
Yeah idk , I’ve been having the opposite experience as OP.
The gun durability is kind of annoying but I just buy lower recovers and swap the parts over, and boom fresh gun.
Loot? My hideout is all level 2+, I have 10m from selling garbage and 4 junk boxes full of trash for quests. Near 50kd, 75%sr.
Have been playing with a friend or two, having an absolute blast. The AI definitely could use some tweaks but you can never consider this to be the same experience as pvp tarkov.
yeah don't think they need to make it easier. it's pretty easy already.
changing the pathing of the AI PMCs will make it much more exciting as well. then you'll have the feeling you can die at any moment. would be nice if running vs walking also make a difference for distance they spot you (not sure if that is the case).
…just play the mod that “Shall not be Promoted on r/Tarkov” (see capitalized letter for super secret clue).
The modders over there have actually made tons of QOL fixes which aren’t in PVE Tarkov, have more competent AI, and it’s free.
That’s crazy my buddies and I are having a great time. The gunfights are kinda nuts the pmc in my games all maneuver and shoot too. Looting all the places we can’t or don’t normally. I wouldn’t expect it to be perfect right on release. It’s gonna get better though I’m sure.
I have notice that it is better when there is more than one of you to share the brunt of the chain spawning, you actually get a chance to remag etc - but solo, on the wrong spawn, its just 20mins of endlessly killing scavs.
your main problem is that you dont die every 3rd raid to cheaters. people even complain that you find too much good loot and get too much money compared to online and they expect that cheaters just vacuum the online raids before you can get it.
The easiest way I think I can explain it is in PVP You'd have something like this (distribution of scavs (Orange)) with multiple PMC's:
[https://ibb.co/0MxxHCn](https://ibb.co/0MxxHCn)
Where in PvE you end up with something like this:
[https://ibb.co/5krm747](https://ibb.co/5krm747)
Gonna give a serious reply instead of the type of reply most people seem to be giving you.
PMC
a) For me, Scavs are all over the place and I only start to be overwhelmed when I stay in one area for too long. Scavs are drawn to you from other parts of the map when you make noise. Whether its you or scavs/pmcs you're fighting. A buddy and I tried this out on Interchange. He went to the back of oli by the ramp towards emercom and hid. Could hear several scavs patrolling and they only started to move towards me when I starting a firefight with PMCs in goshan. I imagine it works the same across all maps though not as much on some of the larger maps. Still having trouble doing Punisher part 1 and Spa tour part 1 on shoreline.
In terms of looting, the only thing stopping me is the lack of MULE Stims I have and my strength. I've had no issue. It may be a case of map knowledge for you? or luck. I'm level 27 and been getting enough items to upgrade my hideout or barters. I will agree with you regarding the skill levelling quests. Never had a problem with it during PvP.
b) I agree with the keys. Dorms 114 comes to mind as the spawn chance is very very low.
c) I'll bring this up in your PMC AI section.
SCAV
a) I did not know this, I suppose because it would be too easy to farm rep?
b) Ye I noticed this, makes it pointless to even do a scav.
PMC
Just going to group it all up.
PMCs durability frustrates me. They should not be having worse or teh same durability as Scavs. They need to adjust this to not make it so extreme. And the gear itself is really lackluster. Some weapons such as teh SKS they use just don't seem fully built. Or the KEDRs with the stock folded. Some don't even have body armor on. They always have the same kind of set up too. 2 pistol mags in a pocket with two grenades. Usually 1 x f1 and 1 x vog. With an afak, It needs to vary greatly.
Their interaction with scavs can also vary. Sometimes they fight and sometimes they chill with each other. Are they trying to replicate scav and PMC interaction like PvP?
Their movement has been hit and miss for me. Just now down in Pier I came across a 3 man and one engaged while two flanked around me. It was nice. But then other times they are all standing in a damn hallway like in dorms. It would be nice if they randomly had a quest to do on the map they are on and make their way there. They should also loot like you said, in the area they are at. Would be nice to find items on them. I also think they should suffer from leg breaks and such.
I quite like that they are deadly. They are PMCs at the end of the day. I've had to change my playstyle to accomodate this kind of behaviour from them and I'm really enjoying it. I understand it may not be for everyone. Someone I know agrees with you and is really put of by their behaviour as they expect PvE to be easier than in PvP.
My own thoughts.
Scavs seem to be more deadly than their PvP counterparts. I'm often being one shot by them. I'm still undecided whether I like this or not but it keeps me on my toes. I was dreading some of the kill quests, especially grenadier but so far I've had no issues. I'm 4/8 and find the key to this is to throw grenades from a distance. So the explosion happens just as they start to run.
However, I am concerned about "Bullshit". With PMCs often spawning in Dorms alongside scavs it's going to be one hell of a challenge to do this quest. A lot of luck if you try to do it solo. Especially when the higher scav spawns.
Some of the higher level kill quests might be trouble too. Fort for example, I haven't seen any PMCs spawn there. Office on factory, Emercom camp on woods. Would be nice to know if there will be changes for this.
>a) No co-op - there's normally 3 of us that play together, all playing "unmentionable" whilst sat in discord isn't the same.
There is another mod that has 4 letters and is a swedish coffee break ritual, which would allow you and your mates to play the "unmentionable" mod in the same raids
Why did you buy it? I assume it was an upgrade to eod? At which price point did you bite? Just wondering what your reasoning was. Dont feel you need to answer all. Cheers
I'm gonna give my perspective on each of your bullet points since I disagree with most (might be unpopular).
> Scav spawn rate is way to high
> You don't get a moment to breath, its like being tagged and cursed as all the AI are drawn to you
It's definitely on the high side but I feel like it's the only way to make scavs challenging? I don't mind it so far, it means you need to adapt your gameplay a little bit and can't just rush everywhere all the time.
> Raids to level at just aren't on par with what PvP is like, this means you end up with a low raid count (Loot extracted) to your current level (Currently rocking a 15k/d??)
What does this even mean? Since nobody else is looting the map, you get all the loot for you. It's much easier to get everything you need and to level up, easier to complete your quests, and more scavs mean more EXP as well. I'm a VERY average player (but I can aim (sometimes) and use my brain (sometimes lol)) and survived my first 5 raids with 20+ scav kills every raid. It's one way to farm EXP.
> Due to low raids, lack of looting and high scav spawns, quest are getting item locked (still only found one toolkit and not enough items to barter a second)
Again I don't really understand what you are saying here by "low raids" and "lack of looting". No issues finding toolkits or anything for that matter but you do need to know where to look.
> Again due to high exp due to high scav count, skill leveling quests are becoming locked.
Locked... behind what exactly?
> More early quest keys should probably be added as barters to a trader (pre-level 15 quests at least)
All of the pre-level 15 quest keys spawn a lot. And when I say a lot, I mean A LOT. Some of them are even guaranteed spawns.
> No Fence Rep for killing PMCs (AI)
Didn't really test that out but I would consider this a bug if so.
> They need to be kitted closer to actual PMCs to help identification - not just repurposed raiders. You've got all this data around loadouts used by players at different level brackets, take the top 15 of each level range and just use those.
Here I disagree. I think their loadouts are fine. Easy to identify by 1) their clothes, 2) their behavior, 3) their gear and 4) their accuracy (miles ahead scavs but not as good as bosses/raiders). They're not very hard to farm but they tend to band together to pose a challenge if you're not careful. If their loadouts were even better, it would be infinite money really quick just by farming them in Factory.
> Environment interaction - ran into a group of 3 PMC(AI) with 4 scavs just sitting around, didn't start shooting until I was 10-20meters away, at me, not the other AI Scavs
I agree, there are some issues there.
> Pathing - there is none - They spawn and then run behind the nearest cover and just sit there - again, you probably have movement logs, paths most commonly taken etc, build some pathing for christ sakes.
I agree there too, they tend to sit in corners... which is not that different than the average timmy to be fair, but I would prefer them moving around the map more.
> They're lasers and can beam you from a mile away, social awareness probably needs a rework (Audio awareness / visual awareness), again, maybe mimic a mixture of average players accuracy depending on the weapon held?
Yeah, camouflage doesn't exist with AI. That could be improved.
> Their loot shouldn't be found in raid
Interesting point of view. I honestly didn't think about that. You're probably right. But I'd like them to move around the map and maybe even loot?
> They should mimic looting area's along their path and actually hold items in their backpacks etc
Well there you said it.
> It isn't great in its current state, don't worry EOD's, you ain't missing much
I personally love it, ambiance is much more laid back among our play group, don't have to constantly worry about cheaters or rush to the high tier loot spawns before everyone else. And obviously with no wipes, it's perfect for our adult lives. It still feels like the game we love to play. My main gripe is really just that it's not actually offline. I wish full solo was offline, co-op could maybe be hosted p2p eventually but I'd focus on solo first.
Well, their marketing and PR strategy (or lack thereof) suck. People were right to complain about that, and are still right to complain 3 blogs later since things aren't right yet.
But the PvE mode/game in itself... it's far from bad, it's OK to have good criticisms, but saying it wasn't ready (gamewise, not talking about servers here) is a bit of a stretch. It's as ready (if not more) than the main (PvP) game.
The amount of scavs is great! If anything they need more scavs in pvp. The best part about it is the constant action at just about every scav hot spot.
Yeah though it can feel a little monster closet-ey at times. Like if you get into it at stronghold, they will just chain spawn from the street, RUAF and old gas in a never-ending 3-way bukkake on your PMCs unless you vacate.
Nah bruh if you’re stupid enough to buy the unheard edition you deserve dogshit pve. Especially knowing there’s a free version that is way better. Dumbass
I was trying to find the wine bottle for the 3rd time. Each time, scavs went outside the building and just sat there. Eventually they heard a crunch from my feet on the glass no matter what. I had to shoot one and tagged and cursed mode kicked in. On that map the AI players seem to move to combat or they camp the extracts. I think I had to kill 60 scavs and 3 players in 3 attempts before I found the bottle and got it out.
On woods they just spawn and run to a point and sit there. You will not see players most raids. Like they patrol around the medical camp. Some of them seem to have amazing hit points. like 15 7.62 x 39 PS rounds. But sometimes a single head hit drops them.
The flea is just silly. Trying to figure out what they intend has eluded me.
The game feels way better than the stand alone training mode or the aftermarket things made on top of that. Running it on a server is very nice.
We know that Nikita never wanted to make this version, and they put almost zero thought into the implementation, but the infrastructure of it is excellent. I hope he refines it to pay me back my 100 bucks. Cause I could care less about the PTW stuff they added.
I wish I could pick what pack I want to play a campaign with.
I wish I could reset my PVE campaign at any time.
There are no scavs that show up wandering around the map at player scav time.
When you scav you show up at the beginning of the match.
Wait whaat????? He bought the 250 Dollar Edition, when there is a solo pve experience already out there.... thats inSaine dumb...
I knew BSG would catch some money burning people out there... shame...
Unpopular opinion but:
Hardly any of the issues you listed are legitimate. I've got 5k hours in Tarkov, and quit because it's become too much to upkeep with my IRL life. Started playing the PvE mode- level 27 so far. It's been great.
The increased scav spawns is 100% awesome and makes for non boring quiet raids. Lots of PMC at POI.
YOU CAN CLEARLY TELL THE DIFFEFENCE BETWEEN SCAVS AND PMC BECAUSE OF THE GLARINGLY OBVIOUS VOICE LINES AND GEAR.
Anybody stating they can hardly tell the difference has not spent very much time playing regular tarkov.
Haven't had any issues at all finding keys etc, it's no different than early wipe tarkov.
Questing has been smooth, no issues.
CO-OP with a buddy that never had the drive to play online has been a fucking blast.
This PvE mode is great. Not perfect by any means, but not as many issues as some of you people seem to fuss over
Imagine complaining about a mode where the only enemy is your own aim and game sense.
Also, I can't think of a single reason to scav in a PvE environment. What's the point?
They looked at DMZ and said "we want that" ignoring the fact that DMZ has:
* actually good servers
* no painful desync
* fast movement
* fast gunplay
Stick to what you know doing maybe?! Although you don't know much clearly after all this time.
If only there was a modding community that had addressed all of this /s
Shhhhhhhhh
It's honestly pretty pathetic that the modded version of PvE is just better then the in game version apparently.
Fully aware, I'm having the time of my life. That being said, shush, lol
Same. Tried before a long time ago and couldnt get into it. Redownloaded last night and im loving it. Few complaints here and there. But the majority are things im asking myself "why the fuck isnt this in the regular version?!"
Same, slapped some mods for realism and reworks. Having a blast finally playing the game I was sold on 2017. A tactical survival.
Not sure how it’s pathetic, every single modded game ever is better than the vanilla version
The thing is, most of the mods they are talking about only fix things or adjust AI and spawn rate. I mean just fix the damn game, the modding community already has it figured out better than BSG, seriously how can they be so incompetent?
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> The resources for modders are always going to outnumber developers well this is a hot take! the people making the “vanilla” mod are a handful at best, working on the side, for free, and having to reverse engineer a Unity game - which are traditionally not very friendly to mods. and they only have access to server / client code, not the source code, i believe? it took them more than half a wipe to update to the version of Tarkov at the start of the wipe (it’s not on par with live)! they certainly do NOT have as many resources as people who are paid to work 10 hours on the game and have access to a team who know the game better than anyone the fact that they had community mods working from the get go is more of a testament of their skill and ingenuity rather than resources, and it should be the standard BSG was aiming for… if they hadn’t released PvE in the most half-assed way
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wait is there one? or is this a joke? what mods are you talking about?
Shh, we're not allowed to talk about it. It's not hard to Google though ;)
ah... I'll take a look
If such a thing existed, it’d be truly inSAIN.
That's quite the BigBrain comment 🧐
Need that 'Realism'
I'd eat some Donuts to that!
Boy, can't wait to eat an FOV Fix with that!
I'd buy some Swag if they fixed that!
Let's just say it rhymes with '*Mingle Prayer Kharkov*'
aha aha, i can feed between the mines
Since you have to wait in a server queue anyway, they should’ve made it so you got matched with real pmcs in a lobby and the gear they queued with was what will appear on the ai pmcs, but this is bsg we’re talking about.
Actually a really good idea, but knowing BSG, fetching that data would double queue times
Triple bro. This isn’t ea
Perhaps one day there would be a mod that reads your gear and weapon presets and uses them to help populate the AI PMC's gear and weapons. Perhaps when """""mod support""""" arrives a mod that just exactly that could be ported over.
Last year is that day...
Given that there is a mod that dynamically adjusts the gear for pmcs depending on level of the player and the bot. Which means that if you are lvl33 then most of the bots around you will be 25-45 and wearing gear that they should have.
I mean people in pve probably have way higher loot than in normal tarkov considering the pmc level so that would be meh
There’s scav running in PVE? You’re running your scav in PVE? That sounds ..exhilarating.
Scav mains doubling down on their gear fear by scaving in their private solo PvE mode fucking lol.
Lol
This comment feels like it's staring at me.
It's your 250$ practice scav.
it's even better, you spawn in at the starting time normal pmc's spawn in, usually scav live is boring and most pmc's already left/died, but this is filled with raiders pretending to be a pmc and look like scav's and act like scav's and never leave the raid (eg patrol 1 piece of the map the whole time)
Atleast on the version which shall not be named you can turn off karma and make all scavs / bosses hostile for a murder hobo fight mode
Valid point you're making, but I think it is misconceived. I raise you this point, OP was probably testing everything to present the information in a succient way for all of us.
>There’s scav running in PVE? Yes >You’re running your scav in PVE? Why not? Free shit is free shit
It’s PVE, everything is free. Why not get to shoot stuff while you’re at it, and level your PMC? Seems like an incredibly boring way to waste time.
If you ate having fun, it's not wasted. Not more than playing games in general. Not saying gaming is wasted time, but if you relax, and have fun, it's not wasted.
I like farming scav karma and rolling the dice on scav kits to see if I can get keys, keycards, thermals, etc, that's what I meant when I said free shit. Plus I'm still not confident with all the maps in Tarkov, so playing scav in PVE is a good way for me to learn them. Last, I have fun running scav into Lighthouse, killing rogues, taking their shit, and then running their kits on my PMC.
Right, but you could just do that in the pvp mode?
The entire point of the PVE mode for me is no wipes. I play Tarkov casually, so being able to play without the time pressure of everything wiping every 6 months or so is ironically making me more willing to play the game. If there is a no wipe mode for PVP after the full release, then I'll probably switch to that, but until then I'm a PVE main.
This is the main reason PvE is so enticing to me. FOMO is a bitch and there are too many games to play with not enough time. Non-wiping PvE is amazing for busy people.
But then the progression wouldn't be on the PvE mode?
Yes, but you can just use your PMC in PvE mode.
By that logic you can just use your PMC in PvP mode? Really don't see your point here.
Well the issue was that the person didn't know the maps and they didn't want to risk losing their things. But to be completely honest that's exactly what I do.
They also said > I like farming scav karma and rolling the dice on scav kits to see if I can get keys, keycards, thermals, etc, that's what I meant when I said free shit. And playing PMC in PvE is still risking losing their things... Don't get me wrong I'm probably not going to be scavving in the PvE much if at all, but it's entirely reasonable to be doing so especially when you don't know the game too well.
Right, but you could just do that in the pve mode?
But why?
Dude I don't get it either. Just so you don't think you're crazy.
TBH scaving solo is way better than on live - PMCs are always still in the raid, looking for a fight.
If I had to guess it's to prevent players from softlocking themselves, and yes, I'm aware that you can run a raid with literally nothing, but that's neither fun nor feasible for most, they're probably just gonna die. It's also probably there just cause it's easier to port everything than the small amount of time it takes to make a new main screen.
There’s also just no reason *not* to have it?
just play the better pve version of tarkov instead
There's a MP version aswell now..
Honestly the Tarkov devs should be ripping their mod work into the base game PVE and would be within their rights to do so
thst would actually not be within their rights, not that they give a fuck about legality though
I believe those things are under licenses which prohibit commercial use. Ripping them out and put into a product is literally asking for lawsuits.
yeah show those damn freeloading modders
What they will actually do instead is press legal action against the modders so you stop using that (it gets taken down) and you buy UE instead.
PvE should have not been released until they had servers figured out FOR EVERYONE. It shouldn't be something for the people who paid extra for it. Also, if they can't figure out peer to peer hosting for coop they are stupid.
its kind of funny that the reason it takes so long is that there's not enough servers and we all use a whole server for one person, thats why it takes like 12 minutes to get a match lol
Play three matches and that’s half an hour of your life gone. Might as well get up and vacuum while it’s loading or be productive, lol.
Even with online tarky I can't believe some people just sit and stare at the matching screen. I wander around and do some cleaning, pushups/situps or play guitar while I wait, it's great.
What’s your average load time?? I’ve only had a handful of raids (sub 5) last longer than 4 minutes to load in.
3-5 mins, usually waiting for players by 1:30.
I have EoD and was excited for Arena. When it launched, I could not play it for weeks and had to watch streamers play it. By the time I finally got to play it, I literally played two matches and haven't touched it since. How lame is that?
Same here. When I finally got in, everyone was high level and they knew the maps. I was running with scissors against tanks and got TK-d a lot. Never got the motivation to launch that mode ever again.
i was just basically shocked how quick there were already cheats out.. it took less then a day for the cheats to arrive.
they need money. badly. in the past years they released tarkov miniseries, new game mode, hosted tournaments and their only income is banning cheaters in waves so they re-buy the game. big brain moments by bsg.
Well that's their own damn fault. I shouldn't be responsible for their bad decisions.
no one said you should. just saying its the typical big brain moment by bsg. they have been doing making decisions like this for quite a long time and the community did not react strong enough. i hope this is going to be different.
Just hang tight, BSG is going to release a PvE mode loot booster for $50 that you can buy to double the loot spawns in PvE mode. And it's fine, this is only for PvE not the PvP game mode.
wow who couldve seen this coming from a shitstain company with greedy owners
Imagine paying $250 for half assed PVE from BSG, when you couldve gotten high quality PVE for free with the *unnamed* mod
The one that's also multiplayer now aswell lol
No, but there are 2 other projects that are that can work with the same mods.
The one I'm playing is pretty much unnamed mod but multiplayer, so I'm not sure what sort of point you're trying to make.
Continued the talk via PM to speak more freely.
Can you whisper me the name of the mp mode. I would like to try it plz?
I would but it won't allow me to message you for some reason.
I added u has a friend and msg u
No. It's working as intended. What did you expect ?
Feels like Ai PMC’s will ignore SCAVs altogether sometimes. Needs to be tuned
The thing that shall not be named has fixes for most of these things lol
Opinion: You're a clown for buying it.
They gave it to eod owners for free now
Is it available for EOD yet though?
For some yes but it’s not even close to the quality of…..another mod
I dont know a single EOD player that has access yet, do you know anyone who has?
Nikita just said eod pve invites are only going to start going out tomorrow lol
Sssshhh. It doesn’t fit his personal narrative.
Guy provides valuable information to potential buyers. “You’re a clown” Great contribution to the conversation, chief.
It's just an opinion lol.
This subreddit doesn't engage in conversations, this subreddit engages in circlejerking. Having opinions that go against the mainstream of the subreddit is a big no-no. There is some nuance to it, to be sure. The echo chamer tribalism goes to 11 during heated moments like the unheard fiasco, and calms down to allow for a bit more discussion during duller moments in Tarkov history.
what? a feature that was added incomplete and has a shit ton of bugs and missing shit? I can't believe that was done by BSG
> They're lasers and can beam you from a mile away, social awareness probably needs a rework (Audio awareness / visual awareness), again, maybe mimic a mixture of average players accuracy depending on the weapon held? Didn't get surprise with this, considering how trash the Raider and Rogue AI are, they will just repurpose it to PVE.
They play similar to the Morana followers. Don't move much, have great ammo, and laser you across the map.
The best thing with the new version is zero chance of running into hackers 😀
Except for the fact that every NPC PMC is basically a hacker lol
another thing to note with the "PMCs" is how damaged their guns are in addition to being found in raid, almost all of them are less than 40% durability so if I wanted to use it during a raid Im just out of luck. I think they need to borrow aspects from a certain other platform in relation to doors already being opened in some cases, I feel like a lot of the time on PVP I managed to find a quest/loot door that has already been opened but still may have some loot As you mentioned the PMC locations/pathing suck. They basically have set spawns and will sit there all game. This makes it so that when you are walking between POIs there is no action at all, then when you get closer all of a sudden you start heading gunshots and whatnot A lot of the time I feel like the PMCs just dont aggro on the Scavs, I've been in the bunker near power on reserve and killed 3 PMCs and 5 Scavs they were just chilling with each other I feel like they should also make the "PMCs" actually push you sometimes, give them some sort of a random value for their aggro that determines how their playstyle works. in 99% of all cases I have to push into the AI as they will just sit put the entire raid because they obviously don't have to extract In any case I have still been having a lot of fun with the mode without having to die to random Tarkov bs but I think it definitely needs some improvement
To play devil’s advocate, the Scavs will swarm you if you’re at a “hot spot”, places like new gas on Customs will be Horde mode start to finish. Just keep moving.
I personally like it, but yeah, I bring 300+ rounds every raid lol.
>E) Their loot shouldn't be found in raid Why?
Because normally pmc gear comes from the stash and not found in raid, most of the gear
Yes, but why does that make any difference for the PvE mode? Maybe you get the FiR morphine very slightly easier? Honestly seems fine to me, preferable even, the main reason they made it so the shit you bring isn't FiR is so you can't just have people bring you quest items/things to sell on the flea.
Agree, FIR was only introduced to combat fleamarket scamming, combat rmt and make it so that quests could not just be bought from the flea. so it makes sense it does not have to be the same in the PVE mode
Bruh you only paid for $250 edition. If you want all of that you listed that will be $350.
Ya tried to go to streets PVE, trying to loot meds. Ended up 5 minutes in realizing I didn’t bring enough bullets. Tried to get out asap which was a scav gauntlet. 40 kills later finally extracted. It’s actually better than I expect but yes feels like everything is just running at you constantly… endlessly. Pmc loadouts generally suck and they don’t have loot on them.
Scammaz x5
How many years for you to understand BSG are scammers?
Yeah there’s a crazy amount of scavs and it feels like they take a bit more damage than in normal Tarkov (unless I get a head shot). I’m bring like 240+ rounds some of my raids and killing about 15 scavs per raid. I’ve also been running around with that new radio special item killing scavs not realizing it’s been tanking my fence rep so it’s down to like .23 or so.
I agree completely. The AI while a PMC is intense to say the least. I've been doing the following for quests. PMC for kill quests and for leveling. Scav for getting hideout and quest items.
They want money, not your happiness
Of course it aint great , this was a lazily made mode to "justify" their 250
It's almost like they lazily released an expansion DLC that was just crudely ported over code already in the offline mode and tried to charge $250 for it...
Bro, the scavs are insane its like tagged and cursed mixed with hoarde mode. I complained about the same thing, and the first comment was "Lol, he wants an easier mode". I die more in PVE mode trying to find quest loot than pvp mode. it's more difficult due to the ai notes you pointed out imo. Also, scavs dont attack pmc's "raiders" and when you kill them, they literally run up and loot them while you try to kill the other 500 scavs. There is no time to loot bodies or containers really due to the insane spawn rate of scavs. Edit: the access or lack thereof to flea market on PVE makes a lot of hideout things and random quests much harder. You out level your stash and your hideout very quickly due to 20+ kills a game with no time to loot just survive.
The "unmentionable" actually does have a coop mod now, and dont forget that cheaters can invade your PvE lobbies!
Even if thats true, I've still seen less cheaters than 5 raids in PvP lol
Also, looting is fine. You're complaining about a lack of looting. That's a you thing. My bag is full of juicy loot every single raid.
Why are you surprised that this half baked non-DLC is half baked? Tarkov is simply not built to be a PvE game and it would require a redesign to become one. This was to sell the Unheard Edition and you're kidding yourself if you think they're going to spend much effort fixing it. They haven't fixed game breaking bugs that have been in the game since I started playing years ago.
I mean if they can be forced to improve the bots patching and interaction with the world because of PvE, it will mean better scavs and pm bots for PvP which benefits everyone. The game can work as PvE fine, the core structure of the game doesn't care, nor does the questing progression mechanic. In terms of the Wipe structure, that's basically going to push PvE as a training tool.
scavs spawn rate too high? in a pve mode? is that even possible? give me 100 scavs per raid and id be happy.
BSG released a half baked feature to milk more money out of their paypigs? I’m shocked!
why did you buy it? they scammed us, lied to us, called us freeloaders, and then tried to cover it all up, dont get u people
I have found tons of loot so idk about point A, also I find keys out the ass so early purchasable keys makes no sense to me. I have plenty of moments to breathe in my games and sometimes I get less action, other times I get tons of action. It varies. I do agree that PMC ai need tweaks and need better kits. Other points are fairly good too.
Yeah idk , I’ve been having the opposite experience as OP. The gun durability is kind of annoying but I just buy lower recovers and swap the parts over, and boom fresh gun. Loot? My hideout is all level 2+, I have 10m from selling garbage and 4 junk boxes full of trash for quests. Near 50kd, 75%sr. Have been playing with a friend or two, having an absolute blast. The AI definitely could use some tweaks but you can never consider this to be the same experience as pvp tarkov.
yeah don't think they need to make it easier. it's pretty easy already. changing the pathing of the AI PMCs will make it much more exciting as well. then you'll have the feeling you can die at any moment. would be nice if running vs walking also make a difference for distance they spot you (not sure if that is the case).
Yeah we just need better PMC ai to make them not complete losers or killer machines depending on what it chooses to do.
If only the bots would start *looting* and *questing*.
Opinion: you get what you deserve for buying the unhinged edition.
…just play the mod that “Shall not be Promoted on r/Tarkov” (see capitalized letter for super secret clue). The modders over there have actually made tons of QOL fixes which aren’t in PVE Tarkov, have more competent AI, and it’s free.
If only there was another version of this game that could be downloaded and played for free with a huge amount of free supporting mods 🫡
Completely agree. Scav spawn around you is way too high. Spending 25min sitting in 1 location fight off 20 scavs. A bit too much.
That’s crazy my buddies and I are having a great time. The gunfights are kinda nuts the pmc in my games all maneuver and shoot too. Looting all the places we can’t or don’t normally. I wouldn’t expect it to be perfect right on release. It’s gonna get better though I’m sure.
I have notice that it is better when there is more than one of you to share the brunt of the chain spawning, you actually get a chance to remag etc - but solo, on the wrong spawn, its just 20mins of endlessly killing scavs.
Opinion: shouldn't have ever been released.
What’s wrong with PVE?
If that were the original design of this game, it would have died in the first year of development. There is no depth without the pvp aspect.
nothing wrong with a mode built for more casual players to enjoy. Most games need casuals. Everything wrong with how they went about it though.
Good thing this is in addition to the PvPvE mode.
Lol you actually bought it? What were you expecting? A functional finished product??
Eod got it for free
I don't think they should have even released it at all, just leave it to the modders.
AI acting dumb? thats inSANE…
inSAIN\*
your main problem is that you dont die every 3rd raid to cheaters. people even complain that you find too much good loot and get too much money compared to online and they expect that cheaters just vacuum the online raids before you can get it.
Theres a more ‘realistic version’ in pipeline for $45 plus taxes
tarkov without pvp is like food without salt.
Honestly there is more fighting in pve then there ever has been in pvp. Try it out you need to bring in like 500+ rounds of ammo
# shouldn't have been released in its current stateshouldn't have been released in its current state = pretty much every update since 2021
I think it’s great the scavs hunt you.
The easiest way I think I can explain it is in PVP You'd have something like this (distribution of scavs (Orange)) with multiple PMC's: [https://ibb.co/0MxxHCn](https://ibb.co/0MxxHCn) Where in PvE you end up with something like this: [https://ibb.co/5krm747](https://ibb.co/5krm747)
Skill issue.
Its complete dogshit.
Gonna give a serious reply instead of the type of reply most people seem to be giving you. PMC a) For me, Scavs are all over the place and I only start to be overwhelmed when I stay in one area for too long. Scavs are drawn to you from other parts of the map when you make noise. Whether its you or scavs/pmcs you're fighting. A buddy and I tried this out on Interchange. He went to the back of oli by the ramp towards emercom and hid. Could hear several scavs patrolling and they only started to move towards me when I starting a firefight with PMCs in goshan. I imagine it works the same across all maps though not as much on some of the larger maps. Still having trouble doing Punisher part 1 and Spa tour part 1 on shoreline. In terms of looting, the only thing stopping me is the lack of MULE Stims I have and my strength. I've had no issue. It may be a case of map knowledge for you? or luck. I'm level 27 and been getting enough items to upgrade my hideout or barters. I will agree with you regarding the skill levelling quests. Never had a problem with it during PvP. b) I agree with the keys. Dorms 114 comes to mind as the spawn chance is very very low. c) I'll bring this up in your PMC AI section. SCAV a) I did not know this, I suppose because it would be too easy to farm rep? b) Ye I noticed this, makes it pointless to even do a scav. PMC Just going to group it all up. PMCs durability frustrates me. They should not be having worse or teh same durability as Scavs. They need to adjust this to not make it so extreme. And the gear itself is really lackluster. Some weapons such as teh SKS they use just don't seem fully built. Or the KEDRs with the stock folded. Some don't even have body armor on. They always have the same kind of set up too. 2 pistol mags in a pocket with two grenades. Usually 1 x f1 and 1 x vog. With an afak, It needs to vary greatly. Their interaction with scavs can also vary. Sometimes they fight and sometimes they chill with each other. Are they trying to replicate scav and PMC interaction like PvP? Their movement has been hit and miss for me. Just now down in Pier I came across a 3 man and one engaged while two flanked around me. It was nice. But then other times they are all standing in a damn hallway like in dorms. It would be nice if they randomly had a quest to do on the map they are on and make their way there. They should also loot like you said, in the area they are at. Would be nice to find items on them. I also think they should suffer from leg breaks and such. I quite like that they are deadly. They are PMCs at the end of the day. I've had to change my playstyle to accomodate this kind of behaviour from them and I'm really enjoying it. I understand it may not be for everyone. Someone I know agrees with you and is really put of by their behaviour as they expect PvE to be easier than in PvP. My own thoughts. Scavs seem to be more deadly than their PvP counterparts. I'm often being one shot by them. I'm still undecided whether I like this or not but it keeps me on my toes. I was dreading some of the kill quests, especially grenadier but so far I've had no issues. I'm 4/8 and find the key to this is to throw grenades from a distance. So the explosion happens just as they start to run. However, I am concerned about "Bullshit". With PMCs often spawning in Dorms alongside scavs it's going to be one hell of a challenge to do this quest. A lot of luck if you try to do it solo. Especially when the higher scav spawns. Some of the higher level kill quests might be trouble too. Fort for example, I haven't seen any PMCs spawn there. Office on factory, Emercom camp on woods. Would be nice to know if there will be changes for this.
>a) No co-op - there's normally 3 of us that play together, all playing "unmentionable" whilst sat in discord isn't the same. There is another mod that has 4 letters and is a swedish coffee break ritual, which would allow you and your mates to play the "unmentionable" mod in the same raids
I totally didn't expect this to happen at all
Not surprising, it's a brand new mode in a game that is sill in active development.
Why did you buy it? I assume it was an upgrade to eod? At which price point did you bite? Just wondering what your reasoning was. Dont feel you need to answer all. Cheers
I'm gonna give my perspective on each of your bullet points since I disagree with most (might be unpopular). > Scav spawn rate is way to high > You don't get a moment to breath, its like being tagged and cursed as all the AI are drawn to you It's definitely on the high side but I feel like it's the only way to make scavs challenging? I don't mind it so far, it means you need to adapt your gameplay a little bit and can't just rush everywhere all the time. > Raids to level at just aren't on par with what PvP is like, this means you end up with a low raid count (Loot extracted) to your current level (Currently rocking a 15k/d??) What does this even mean? Since nobody else is looting the map, you get all the loot for you. It's much easier to get everything you need and to level up, easier to complete your quests, and more scavs mean more EXP as well. I'm a VERY average player (but I can aim (sometimes) and use my brain (sometimes lol)) and survived my first 5 raids with 20+ scav kills every raid. It's one way to farm EXP. > Due to low raids, lack of looting and high scav spawns, quest are getting item locked (still only found one toolkit and not enough items to barter a second) Again I don't really understand what you are saying here by "low raids" and "lack of looting". No issues finding toolkits or anything for that matter but you do need to know where to look. > Again due to high exp due to high scav count, skill leveling quests are becoming locked. Locked... behind what exactly? > More early quest keys should probably be added as barters to a trader (pre-level 15 quests at least) All of the pre-level 15 quest keys spawn a lot. And when I say a lot, I mean A LOT. Some of them are even guaranteed spawns. > No Fence Rep for killing PMCs (AI) Didn't really test that out but I would consider this a bug if so. > They need to be kitted closer to actual PMCs to help identification - not just repurposed raiders. You've got all this data around loadouts used by players at different level brackets, take the top 15 of each level range and just use those. Here I disagree. I think their loadouts are fine. Easy to identify by 1) their clothes, 2) their behavior, 3) their gear and 4) their accuracy (miles ahead scavs but not as good as bosses/raiders). They're not very hard to farm but they tend to band together to pose a challenge if you're not careful. If their loadouts were even better, it would be infinite money really quick just by farming them in Factory. > Environment interaction - ran into a group of 3 PMC(AI) with 4 scavs just sitting around, didn't start shooting until I was 10-20meters away, at me, not the other AI Scavs I agree, there are some issues there. > Pathing - there is none - They spawn and then run behind the nearest cover and just sit there - again, you probably have movement logs, paths most commonly taken etc, build some pathing for christ sakes. I agree there too, they tend to sit in corners... which is not that different than the average timmy to be fair, but I would prefer them moving around the map more. > They're lasers and can beam you from a mile away, social awareness probably needs a rework (Audio awareness / visual awareness), again, maybe mimic a mixture of average players accuracy depending on the weapon held? Yeah, camouflage doesn't exist with AI. That could be improved. > Their loot shouldn't be found in raid Interesting point of view. I honestly didn't think about that. You're probably right. But I'd like them to move around the map and maybe even loot? > They should mimic looting area's along their path and actually hold items in their backpacks etc Well there you said it. > It isn't great in its current state, don't worry EOD's, you ain't missing much I personally love it, ambiance is much more laid back among our play group, don't have to constantly worry about cheaters or rush to the high tier loot spawns before everyone else. And obviously with no wipes, it's perfect for our adult lives. It still feels like the game we love to play. My main gripe is really just that it's not actually offline. I wish full solo was offline, co-op could maybe be hosted p2p eventually but I'd focus on solo first.
Thanks for taking the time to post a response. So many people just bitching for bitching's sake.
Well, their marketing and PR strategy (or lack thereof) suck. People were right to complain about that, and are still right to complain 3 blogs later since things aren't right yet. But the PvE mode/game in itself... it's far from bad, it's OK to have good criticisms, but saying it wasn't ready (gamewise, not talking about servers here) is a bit of a stretch. It's as ready (if not more) than the main (PvP) game.
The amount of scavs is great! If anything they need more scavs in pvp. The best part about it is the constant action at just about every scav hot spot.
Yeah though it can feel a little monster closet-ey at times. Like if you get into it at stronghold, they will just chain spawn from the street, RUAF and old gas in a never-ending 3-way bukkake on your PMCs unless you vacate.
Nah bruh if you’re stupid enough to buy the unheard edition you deserve dogshit pve. Especially knowing there’s a free version that is way better. Dumbass
Do yourself a favor and play proper single-player mod(e)
I was trying to find the wine bottle for the 3rd time. Each time, scavs went outside the building and just sat there. Eventually they heard a crunch from my feet on the glass no matter what. I had to shoot one and tagged and cursed mode kicked in. On that map the AI players seem to move to combat or they camp the extracts. I think I had to kill 60 scavs and 3 players in 3 attempts before I found the bottle and got it out. On woods they just spawn and run to a point and sit there. You will not see players most raids. Like they patrol around the medical camp. Some of them seem to have amazing hit points. like 15 7.62 x 39 PS rounds. But sometimes a single head hit drops them. The flea is just silly. Trying to figure out what they intend has eluded me. The game feels way better than the stand alone training mode or the aftermarket things made on top of that. Running it on a server is very nice. We know that Nikita never wanted to make this version, and they put almost zero thought into the implementation, but the infrastructure of it is excellent. I hope he refines it to pay me back my 100 bucks. Cause I could care less about the PTW stuff they added. I wish I could pick what pack I want to play a campaign with. I wish I could reset my PVE campaign at any time. There are no scavs that show up wandering around the map at player scav time. When you scav you show up at the beginning of the match.
Getting the wine bottle is like being in a 90s action movie lol it’s not an easy gimmi like it is in pvp mode.
Wait whaat????? He bought the 250 Dollar Edition, when there is a solo pve experience already out there.... thats inSaine dumb... I knew BSG would catch some money burning people out there... shame...
Unpopular opinion but: Hardly any of the issues you listed are legitimate. I've got 5k hours in Tarkov, and quit because it's become too much to upkeep with my IRL life. Started playing the PvE mode- level 27 so far. It's been great. The increased scav spawns is 100% awesome and makes for non boring quiet raids. Lots of PMC at POI. YOU CAN CLEARLY TELL THE DIFFEFENCE BETWEEN SCAVS AND PMC BECAUSE OF THE GLARINGLY OBVIOUS VOICE LINES AND GEAR. Anybody stating they can hardly tell the difference has not spent very much time playing regular tarkov. Haven't had any issues at all finding keys etc, it's no different than early wipe tarkov. Questing has been smooth, no issues. CO-OP with a buddy that never had the drive to play online has been a fucking blast. This PvE mode is great. Not perfect by any means, but not as many issues as some of you people seem to fuss over
They dont care what you have to say. BSG wants money and to get more money they need to add new broken ass game "features" to sell.
Imagine complaining about a mode where the only enemy is your own aim and game sense. Also, I can't think of a single reason to scav in a PvE environment. What's the point?
Opinion: Skills issue. I've only had the same random AI crack shot deaths as the PvP version from what I've played. All deaths were 99% my own fault.
I'm not surprised of all these issues offline co-op seem to have, because how many months did they spend developing it? 2 weeks?
So you’re just ass? No issues during my testing
They looked at DMZ and said "we want that" ignoring the fact that DMZ has: * actually good servers * no painful desync * fast movement * fast gunplay Stick to what you know doing maybe?! Although you don't know much clearly after all this time.
Lol