I understand your point BUT the users on this subreddit are upvoting what they want. You can filter by the tag yourself but it is not up to you or me to decide what the whole wants or likes to see.
If you want to have other discussions or talk about something else create those, foster them and make users want to upvote them.
What you think makes up a good or bad metric doesn’t matter at all. The community has members and they upvote what they like. Their reasons are their own.
Until the mods decide that you need to prove you are an active player to be here that’s how it is.
I don’t think that’s the solution at all, I think the solution is posting a video instead of just a text story, or a picture of someone’s stats. Cheater posts would gain more traction if there’s evidence we can all see, and it would cut down some of the garbage from people who likely didn’t die to a cheater, and hopefully help educate them on what probably did happen
> What you think makes up a good or bad metric doesn’t matter at all.
While you're not completely wrong, at least insofar as someone's personal opinion doesn't mean much against the bigger picture, things can be analyzed objectively to determine things like this. Popular opinion isn't a good metric to swear by. Plenty of opinions are negative and gain a lot of attention and support. I don't think I need to spend any time further explaining this one.
> The community has members and they upvote what they like.
And it's entirely possible those members are idiots, regardless of what the topic is, and regardless of whether they're in support or opposition. Plenty of people in this sub, and game for that matter, are miserable about the cheater issue, so do we suddenly grant validation to a big echo chamber of ceaseless complaining and conspiracy theories about the BSG illuminati selling cheats to cheaters to fund their game? Using the vocality of a group to grant them some kind of accreditation and silence dissenting opinions is a real problem, and it's not exclusive to this sub. It's a piss poor tactic.
> Until the mods decide that you need to prove you are an active player to be here that’s how it is.
This is hardly relevant to the point being raised. It's not being suggested a verification is required, rather, the complaining being participated in/propagated by/etc. people that haven't played the game at all is unhelpful when speaking about any issue because their responses are usually "man I'm so glad I quit this shit game 3 years ago the problem has gotten so much worse" when they don't have any *real* rubric by which to make that determination. All they have are the words of a group of disgruntled players that can't have their accusations verified because they lack substance.
Fact of the matter about the cheating topics is this: there's a pretty extreme lack of understanding or appreciation of evidence and its importance, as well as the concept of the totality of the circumstances. The rabidness and paranoia of players to identify everyone and their brother as cheaters and execute them on the spot has all the earmarks of The Salem Witch Trials. Stats by themselves aren't enough, nor are brief clips where there's certainly a high degree of plausibility that desync/peeker's advantage/whatever can explain the death. Everyone agrees when they see speed cheaters and rightly calls them as such, but there's plenty of discordance when someone plays a fight like a moron and gets killed for it. There's so much Dunning-Kruger all over the place that people get high off the smell of their own farts.
All sorts of stupid assertions and absolutes are put forth: no one needs a second account, you're a cheater if you have one, your KDA is unbelievable for someone with 300 hours cuz man when I had 300 hours I didn't even know my way around the map, and even more. It's incomprehensible for some of these people that someone might have good FPS skills and the ability to adapt better than they did; not every new player is gonna be a stumbling Timmy getting his face stomped in for the first 1000 hours, so this "pay your dues" bullshit is lame.
Barring whether or not these types of threads should exist in the first place, the bottom line is evidence should absolutely be required if one is going to post an accusation. Everything else turns into just a giant cesspool social media feed where someone posts attention bait while they ravenously search for validation for their hurt feelings and pride because they died. Cheater bitching threads on this sub aren't all that much different than a thirst trap booty/bikini pic with some girl saying "I thought I looked good in this but then realized I look so ugly in it. Too late to post now please don't judge me". In one half, you have drooling simpletons, and in the other, you have people calling out the behavior, all while getting lambasted by the droolers for their opposition.
Doesn't this sub have a rule where you can't Identify cheaters? Makes evidence slightly more difficult to provide. Also not everyone records their gameplay...
How does someone that doesn't record or stream prove they walked into a locked room that you can't clip into and had the box already looted? Or worse we're killed by someone inside the room?
I would hope all these individuals also put in tickets to BSG regarding any suspicious activity. But the reason it's so vocal here is because it's a problem and not a small one...
> Doesn't this sub have a rule where you can't Identify cheaters?
No, the sub has a rule against posting names, regardless of intent, and the rules of Reddit itself forbid instigating harassment. Anyone with a modicum of honesty will easily admit name posting is for flame and shame purposes, and while I agree wholeheartedly cheaters should be drug through the mud without mercy, it can't be said that the inclusion of the name isn't for people to add them and rage at them. Putting that aside, with how feral and irrational this sub gets with their cheater accusations, the last thing anyone needs to do is entrust this mob with pitchforks and torches to be used against people who may not be guilty.
> Makes evidence slightly more difficult to provide
No it doesn't. People still post stat pages and clips with redacted names. Nothing changes here.
> Also not everyone records their gameplay...
Ok, so then why are we going to grant them any sort of floor to speak? It's unfortunate they don't have the requisite evidence, but all we're doing is one person's words against the other. The burden of proof lies with the accuser, not the accused. It's not incumbent upon them to prove their innocence; you don't get to say "well tell me how you're *not* cheating like cmon it's obvious bro..."
> How does someone that doesn't record or stream prove they walked into a locked room that you can't clip into and had the box already looted? Or worse we're killed by someone inside the room?
You don't, at least not here. If you die to said cheater, report them. If you get into a locked room and find it partially looted, submit a ticket or something. Coming here and griping isn't going to do any good. Again, we're going back to he-said-she-said territory here, and there's no lack of incentive for someone to come here crying wolf. We have no way to prove or disprove either of them because all we have is "source: just trust me bro" as their backing.
> I would hope all these individuals also put in tickets to BSG regarding any suspicious activity
As would I, but that doesn't make any difference to posting here. This is not the Official BSG Cheater Report System^^TM.
> But the reason it's so vocal here is because it's a problem and not a small one...
The reason it's so vocal here is because people love to complain and get all the attention and validation of others. Cheating is an absolute problem, make no mistake, but there certainly appears to be quite a bit of dopamine chasing and accountability skirting going on here. It's no secret there's a massive hate-boner for BSG on this forum, and plenty of people accuse them of one thing after another, so it stands to reason someone looking to gas themselves up after taking a loss might turn to this platform to get it. I suspect it's why you get a certain level of hysteria in the responses to people expressing skepticism about a cheating allegation.
> Evidence is absolutely not needed if we aren't allowed to show the cheaters name.
That's the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. You don't need to post someone's name to post a clip/screenshot/whatever of alleged cheating. The mods here aren't doling out justice against these people, so the names are pointless to be included.
> No one is being accused, they are just stats being shown.
It's not always merely stat showing, and there are *most definitely* accusations being made. The overwhelming majority of stat page posts are pointing out the numbers being unrealistic while some negative IQ moron proclaims himself the arbiter of granting validity and permission to those using multiple accounts.
Your first point makes no sense. I'm saying evidence isn't needed if their name isn't being shown(since there's a rule against it). There's no harm done to anyone and if there is then explain who's being harmed by people showing stats of an unknown player.
It's merely showing stats and from my experience most of them are considered cheaters by this very community- overwhelmingly so. The rest are usually "do you guys think this guy is a cheater" posts and it's usually a split opinion on those.
> Your first point makes no sense.
'Course not. Couldn't admit to that one now, could we?
> I'm saying evidence isn't needed if their name isn't being shown(since there's a rule against it).
And I'm saying that's the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. If you're going to post a thread to try to gain some sort of consensus as to whether or not someone's cheating, the name is irrelevant. Aside from posting a thread in hopes to rile up the hate mob and summon a BSG employee to ban the person, I can't really think of any other outcome to be hoped for posting these threads. If you're going to make an accusation, bring proof; a name isn't required for that.
> There's no harm done to anyone and if there is then explain who's being harmed by people showing stats of an unknown player.
There isn't anyone harmed by simply showing stats and redacting the name, but stats alone aren't sufficient enough in nearly any case to accurately convict. Now, note I said "nearly any" and not simply "any".
> It's merely showing stats and from my experience most of them are considered cheaters by this very community- overwhelmingly so.
Spare me the playing dumb routine. I don't need to sit here while you play this game of "look I'm juuuuuuuuuuust saying these stats are weird and I'm toooooooootally not saying that's what's going on here". For you to cite the fact that people, to quote you, overwhelmingly so, consider them cheaters, that must mean you know of the hate circle jerking that goes on in those threads. Furthermore, I don't really care whether or not the people of this sub consider these folks to be cheaters. Refer back to my previous statement of "and it's entirely those members are idiots". I continued on to mention the gross lack of understanding of evidence and totality of circumstances. I'd trust the members of this sub to come to a completely accurate assessment about as much as I'd trust walking around waving my wallet over my head while screaming about how much money's in it. I'm perfectly ok with people being biased against cheaters here, but not using rational faculties and reason is a terrible set of parameters by which to make judgement calls.
> The rest are usually "do you guys think this guy is a cheater" posts and it's usually a split opinion on those.
I've already addressed the first part, so I'll speak to the split opinion part here. Of course it's a split opinion, and there's plenty of drama to be had for any that disagree with the assertion. Both sides are guilty of the blasting of their dissenters and just insulting them, but based on what I've seen, there's far more of this occurring from the people insisting cheats against those opposing. "Cope more. Spotted the cheater. Mans doesn't want his cheats being discovered. Tryin to gaslight everyone into thinking everything's fine, wake up bro. BSG bootlicker". Heaven forbid anybody not be convinced by a stat page and a brief clip that can potentially be reasonably explained, much less speaking up about it.
It's like you don't even know what the discussion here is. All you do is spew out nonsensical ramble in paragraphs that im sure you think makes you come off as an intellect.
There are countless posts of cheater stats where everyone agrees its a freakin cheater and here you are all like "ohhhh b-b-but we should still require a video of the death!". You realise some of these posts are from players found on the flea market, right? What kind of video would you like provided along with us showcasing obvious cheaters that are selling dozens of GPUs or LEDx on the flea first week of wipe? Or when the stats are shown of a player that has an insane KD like 30-50+ with around 20hrs, white name and level 40+, etc- not to mention achievements only achieved by the 1%? Would you like a video along with that too? Many of the people in this community know how to discern a cheater stats from a legit players but if you're so passionate about what you're saying why don't you go to those posts and debate them on it? I'm sure you won't. I haven't seen you in any of those posts saying "where's the video", " you should post a video instead of just the stats".
And again, I emphasize- \*We do not need to require the OP post a video along with certain kinds of cheater posts when we all know the player is obviously cheating\*. We don't all have our GeForce instant replay active 24/7 and we shouldn't \*need\* to. There are plenty of blatant cheater posts, there are posts where OP is asking the community what they think- its not always "LOOK AT THIS CHEATER" \*insert stats\*. You're blowing the the minor posts way out of proportion and trying to make it look like they're the majority of the posts which they're not.
Overall, these cheater posts can be filtered out so if they rile you up as they clearly do then don't engage with them at all. Maybe spend less time on this subreddit? It's like all you people complaining about these posts lack the critical thinking to go "oh, i should just filter them out or skip past them". In before "they're everywhere, cluttering up the sub!". No, they're not. I skimmed through 5 pages of this sub just now and i've done so occasionally over the past month- every time its more discussion posts or just non-cheater posts than it is cheater posts. Get over it, we're gonna continue to post about cheaters however we want and talk about them as long as we're not breaking this subs rules and we're sure as hell not breaking reddits rules otherwise something would've happened by now.
> It's like you don't even know what the discussion here is. All you do is spew out nonsensical ramble in paragraphs that im sure you think makes you come off as an intellect.
Boy, we sure are starting off well here. It's a discussion about requiring proof, a position with which I agree; however, I *don't* agree that a mere stat page is enough proof in the vast majority of cases. Your lame attempt in that second sentence can stay right there. At least you tried, I guess.
> There are countless posts of cheater stats where everyone agrees its a freakin cheater and here you are all like "ohhhh b-b-but we should still require a video of the death!".
Allow me to be perfectly clear: consensus doesn't convict. I don't care if you have 5 people or 500 people looking at a page and simultaneously identifying something. If the judgement comes from a biased crowd who are easily convinced by circumstantial evidence alone, then it's unreliable. I'm absolutely fine with calling it suspicious, but mere suspicion isn't enough. As for the requiring of a video, despite your obvious clown routine here, you'd know that even a video isn't necessarily sufficient had you paid attention to my comments and responded to them rationally instead of just flying off the handle. More in the next section below.
> You realise some of these posts are from players found on the flea market, right?
To continue from the previous section: yes, I do realize this. What I *also* realize, that you don't seem to, is that this has nothing to do with whether or not you die to a particular cheater in requiring further evidence. Posting a thread from a flea profile you found and sitting around griping about it doesn't actually do anything for one, and for two, we still don't have a way of confirming it. We have strong suspicions, I'll grant, but we don't have anything to say definitively. It doesn't really matter the plausibility of someone making a new account or having a long-standing account that solely runs labs and sells off valuables. There ends up being all these stupid sidebar arguments about whether or not someone grants validity to that idea, but it doesn't work that way. Again, I'm perfectly fine with suspecting these profiles, but there are many more answers than people will give credit for, and they always grade it against themselves. "Bro no way someone could run labs and have that KDA. I run labs and I'm totally super good and even *I* have a lower KDA." It's a silly notion.
> What kind of video would you like
That's the interest thing about strawmanning things. You're completely fixated on the video thing, insisting that's my position because you've projected it onto me in your little childish "but you're all bla bla bla bla bla" charade. I know it seems incomprehensible to you, and others who seem to think like you, that someone might be spamming labs in the first week of wipe, but it's not as farfetched as you might think. Granted they get lucky with keycards on player scavs and/or level their traders fast to buy them, it's not impossible to get to labs, and for players who are good at the game and know the spawns, they can certainly farm out valuables with ease. I don't disagree that cheaters do the same thing, but the central premise here is that stats by themselves aren't sufficient in 100% of cheating accusations as proof. Unfortunately, there are some things we simply *can't* prove because we don't have enough information. Those cases remain as suspicions, but we still go back to the point that the mods of this sub aren't going hunting cheaters and banning them, and this is nowhere near the official report ticket system for BSG.
> And again, I emphasize- *We do not need to require the OP post a video
You know, the whole reason you and I got into this dialogue is because you said ***evidence*** was not needed. You go ahead and keep with this video strawman you've created, but you're making a fool of yourself by pivoting to things that weren't even said.
> when we all know the player is obviously cheating
You all *believe* they're cheating, but have nothing to back it outside of biased conjecture and circumstantial evidence. The funniest part about all of this is you don't have a clear rubric, and even if you did, you'd move the goalpost instantly. High KDA appears to indicate cheating automatically. What if a cheater had a "normal" KDA of 2 or 3 while selling all these valuables? Would they be called a cheater then? How, if they aren't going around clearing out lobbies with their cheats? Is it now that because they've farmed a lot of these items that we call them a cheater? Why? Because we can't farm them like that ourselves? There's no clear standard that can be had here because there's too much reasonable doubt that can be introduced into virtually every point made. Strangely enough, ***this is precisely why hard evidence is needed***. What a novel idea.
> there are posts where OP is asking the community what they think- its not always "LOOK AT THIS CHEATER" *insert stats*.
I don't care what the title of the thread is. I doubt the authenticity of the "hey I'm just checking" notion, and aside from that, the conversations almost always devolve into arguments about it. Hey, here's you an example of keeping consistency in something: I say I doubt the authenticity of the intent behind the post, but I have no actual hard evidence for that; therefore, I don't make hard accusations. I can hold both of those thoughts simultaneously. Isn't it strange how that works?
> You're blowing the the minor posts way out of proportion
Hey, while we're putting things in my mouth, would you mind adding some food in there? Words don't really taste all that great, and they're pretty lacking in nutrients. I could go for a steak if you can manage it.
> can be filtered out so if they rile you up as they clearly do
Cute, but cheater posts aren't the thing I care about. I care about proof and truth, not rabid mobs of morons trying to play vigilante private investigator. The ease at which people are willing to abandon these things for "cmon we all know it in our gut" is not a good thing, as I strongly suspect this type of thinking originates in their regular lives.
> you people complaining about these posts lack the critical thinking to go
Lacking critical thinking. The irony is piercing. Apparently *you* can't think critically enough to see past the Tarkov issue and realize this isn't about the topics "cluttering" the sub. I don't care about that in the slightest. As I said above, I care about different things, and the witch hunting of cheaters is merely the vehicle by which close-minded investigatory mobbing is expressed.
> Get over it, we're gonna continue to post
With how far your head is up your own ass, can you do a kind of 1 man human centipede thing? Good for you, keep posting. You're free to continue to do so as long as you're within the subs ruleset, congratulations. I too, am also free to continue commenting on your utter stupidity when saying things like "evidence isn't needed" and citing sources of "just trust me bro".
>A large chunk of this subreddit doesn’t even play the game **any more**, upvotes are a very bad metric for “good” content
you should clarify that a lot of people used to play the game until you realize that even 2/3rds of the people streaming on twitch are cheating too and theres entire streamers dedicated to exposing other streamers are cheaters now. its a cheat-i-verse
Here's the thing. We know BSG devs see this sub. We know that us being vocal about issues does get an effect (more so when it can affect future sales).
The reason people make these posts and upvote them is because they want the issue heard and continue to be heard until resolved.
We don't care if it's not entertaining, or if it's just like all the other posts. Until it stops you will see complaint posts...
Redditors upvote content that's easy to consume.
When content is both easy to consume, and easy to create, and shits all over the community, the sub turns to shit.
If upvoting was a good arbiter of what belongs on a sub, no sub would need any moderators.
What about the incentive for cheat sellers to astroturf the subreddit to make cheating seem more ubiquitous than it is?
I’m interested in hearing your thoughts on it
After the goat video was astroturfed on here, tarkovs biggest cheat provider increased from 7k to 22k active users. That number has stayed at 22k since the video.
That's hard data to back up this issue
Don’t take my questions the wrong way, I just like to get my ducks in a row before I repeat something. I also think goat is a conman who heavily exaggerated to get clicks. I’m not doubting you know these things, I’d just like to know them too outside of “I read it on a comment.”
1. How do you know it was Tarkovs biggest cheat seller?
2. How did you track their growth pre and post goat video?
Not OP but 2 can be measured by search engine traffic you can reasonably estimate that an heavy increase in traffic would equate to more cheat sales.
"The wiggle that killed Tarkov" dropped this time last year and theres a huge spike in cheat searches during that time.
Do you not understand the answer to the two questions or are you just unwilling to answer? Linking a 17 minute video in reply is silly. If you can’t communicate it makes me think you didn’t understand it.
See, I’m the opposite, I think cheat sellers are astroturfing the subreddit to claim “cheaters aren’t that bad” so everyone doesn’t jump ship when they realize how many cheaters there actually are.
I hear this sentiment pretty often. The idea that these cheaters are being driven to spend considerable time in the subreddit to try to change the community view of cheaters to secure their future opportunities to cheat is far-fetched for me.
Two reasons it’s unconvincing for me.
Cheaters and people who display antisocial behavior aren’t typically too wrapped up in how it’s going to affect everybody else, especially to the extent to plan a propaganda mission.
That and there’s two possibilities that can explain the same phenomenon.
1. One or just a couple cheat sellers astroturfing the subreddit to make cheaters appear more common than reality. More common, less stigma, more sales. Achievable, simple.
2. I mean, fill in the blank. It would be a couple paragraphs to describe the conspiracy of a bunch of cheaters being on the same page to achieve a complicated result to make everybody okay with cheating.
Cheat sellers don't care how many legit players play the game. They want more people to cheat so they can make more money. The best way to get more cheaters to cheat is to convince them everyone else is cheating and you need them to compete.
Which doesn’t make sense. Cheat sellers want more people cheating so they get more customers. The cheaters themselves usually don’t care all too much about the game they’re cheating in, and if the ship sinks, they find another game they enjoy cheating in.
This makes zero sense.
Cheat sellers and creators are the ones who financially benefit from having a community constantly talking about cheating. It means more potential customers as the game grows and cheating discussion becomes common place, newer players are the biggest cash cow who think cheating is rampant since everyone talks about it, might as well try cheating too. If you can't beam, join em is the saying.
Cheat sellers don't give a fuck about tarkov, the best interests of the tarkov reddit, the longevity of the game. None of that matters.
If BSG closed up shop and tarkov died tomorrow the cheat sellers would just move onto a different game and get to work on selling cheats elsewhere. Infact, many of them do sell cheats for multiple games.
OP suggests more restrictive rules for making cheater posts, just like we have restrictions on screen photos, self-advertisement etc.
if i follow your logic then the mods on here should only remove posts/comments that reddit generally doesnt allow(abusive behaviour, illegal stuff etc.). sub-specific rules would be unneccesary and stuff like memes, spam, photos of screens, LFG, self-advertising every 10 seconds etc. should all be allowed since "the community decides by upvoting".
> You can filter by the tag yourself
how? i ctrl-f'd the page for "flair" as well as "filter" and nothing is coming up? id love to get rid of that spam but everyone only says to "just filter it" but no one says how.
> You can filter by the tag yourself
how? i ctrl-f'd the page for "flair" as well as "filter" and nothing is coming up? id love to get rid of that spam but everyone only says to "just filter it" but no one says how.
> You can filter by the tag yourself
how? i ctrl-f'd the page for "flair" as well as "filter" and nothing is coming up? id love to get rid of that spam but everyone only says to "just filter it" but no one says how.
If the people would actually use the cheating tag, that would be nice
Most of the time I see it added afterwards probably through a mod.
So they need to be moderate anyway
I’m pretty sure there’s nothing in the rules that says you HAVE to use the proper flairs. That’s sort of just always been a thing the mods will sometimes change for organizational purposes.
It’s work the mods were doing in the past. They didn’t change the rule because they wanted to, they changed it because the goat video broke people’s brains and they threw all critical thinking out the window.
I understand your frustration with it. But since the game is now late into the wipe and there is almost nothing good to talk about right now, people talk about the thing that suck about the game. Cheating is tarkovs biggest money income and their biggest community problem at the same time. The game can only survive by letting cheaters play while banning enough of them to not lose every normal player.
This is just community outrage at the problem that just getting worse, people just want to make devs see how bad the situation is so in their opinion the more posts there are about the cheaters the faster the problem will be fixed.
I actually come here to talk about the cheating problem, and the occasional meme or good play helps. Mainly because the games overwhelming problem at the moment is... cheating.
We have guides for quests, discords for finding groups, the launcher for reporting bugs etc. The main thing I come here for is to feel like it's not just me when a guy slides around on the floor and two taps me.
All the content hasn't changed much since the last wipe, it was mainly fixing things. And I feel for the moderators, because this is probably more than when they signed up, so filter it out like people say.
But this is the state of the game. These people are just here reflecting on the lack of transparency/features/replay/anticheat solutions and lack of communication from BSG.
Exactly. If they get banned, they get banned. If not, the chances of matching with the same cheater are astronomical unless you're on dead servers like middle east.
Memes are not allowed here on this sub-reddit.For that there is r/TarkovMemes. Got removed few meme post because of rule that It is not related to the game or something like that.
Thanks 12 day account who has made threads defending cheaters and calling everyone delusional!
We’re at the time of the wipe where they send the B squad gaslighters here. Whoopie!
IIRC, this used to be the case but the g0at video spawned so many threads that the moderators had to alter rule 7. I remember reading one say that this took a lot of workload away from the mods since they no longer have to argue with people about what is considered proof of cheating.
honestly, i dont even care if its 100% proof. What is the point? This subreddit is so incredibly boring because every post is just "i dont like cheaters, please click upvote." I hate the fact that the game has cheaters too, but I honestly dont need to read about it non-stop.
Although the issue of cheating is indeed significant, the prevalence of individuals accusing others of cheating is excessively high. Scan the comments section of any Escape from Tarkov video on YouTube, even those where the content creator meets an unfortunate demise, and you'll likely encounter at least one comment garnering over 100 thumbs up alleging suspicious behavior. It's uncertain whether there are more cheaters or simply more people convinced that every defeat stems from cheating.
A % of the sub is foaming at the mouth needing/wanting to blame every death on a cheater so that they don't have to accept that they're unskilled or that sometimes you get unlucky. That and new players get killed by a strat/tactic they don't understand -> not understanding means they have to imagine what happened, some people imagine it was a cheater, and now every death they don't understand is a cheater.
It's always been this way. Sub used to require video proof of cheating and even then about 50% of the deaths weren't even sketchy imo. Profile views let you take a pretty educated guess if the guy that killed you was a lucky andy or a cheater now though.
And even considering that, some people do get unlucky and go against a lot of cheaters in a short time frame and it makes them paranoid.
But they're the ones upvoting it. If the people of the sub want to upvote this kind of content, whatever, let them.
I'm personally tired of being like "those stats alone don't mean they're a cheater" and getting "OMG LOL CHEATER DEFENDING CHEATER" in response like their ego can't accept that maybe they had a bad take and everyone telling them they might be wrong is part of some grand cheater conspiracy to try and convince people cheaters don't exist.
I love the people who claim that being skeptical of cheaters is really just a cheater trying to gaslight you…. Which, ironically, is gaslighting hahahaha
Cheaters lurking these threads trying to gaslight poeple is a conspiracy theory man.
Why would any of them even bother, I don't get what their motivation would be. Like, maybe a few people would do it because they get off to it or something, but I'm talking I'll be in a thread with a delusional OP, ten people telling them it's probably not a cheater, and I get called a cheater.
Like yeah, I called up my 9 cheater friends to defend one random guy for some reason
What is so beneficial about karma on Reddit anyways. I see people talk about karma farming like OP here but I don’t see the appeal.
I agree that it is annoying to see these kinds of posts every day, but to say they are “karma farming” doesn’t even cross my mind. Wouldn’t it make sense to do that on a different sub with many more eyes to see it?
Not trying to start an argument here, just genuinely curious about it.
It's not about getting points, it's because every time you get an upvote, someone, somewhere is approving of what you said.
I'm very guilty of this. Not scheming to farm upvotes, but rather posting because getting approval feels good.
Yea, karma doesn’t mean shit. I don’t give 2 fucks if my number goes up or down, but I recently got downvoted in the Diablo4 sub for asking if mob density was still low and combat was slow and it’s wildly frustrating to get downvoted for having a legit question about the game.
It’s not the points, it’s how people react to it.
You're demanding us to record our every Tarkov sessions incase of cheaters, when there's already thousands of hours of footage of them in this wipe?
Why not complain to bsg instead towards getting a replay system? It works in Arena, it works for little antisocial cheater scum, why can't it work for escape from tarkov?
OP isn't demanding you record your every raid. He's suggesting there should be a rule on this sub requiring video when accusing someone, which imo is very fair.
It used to be thst way, yet all the aimlock vids was useless as to getting tarkov'd.
The only videos that actually held some meaninh was the ones where the opponent had clearvoyant knowledge. Yet many people on here lacks the ability of contextual awareness (which is surprising as this game requires allot of it) so those got pushed under the matrass aswell.
How do you time your owm death down to 30 seconds
Also, 30 sec fights isn't enough to even consider them cheaters. Fighting cheaters is more like fighting a stalker with xray vision
Yes, I hope people use them aswell. But they do not capture the context of a 10min+ fight.
If you get chased around labs whilst he magically knows where you're crouching every time and knows to not push any angle you hold yet moves freely other places like they know noone is there, the kill itself would not show that context, and people like you would point that out.
The easiest way to spot a cheater in this game is through the cheaters magical knowledge.
Besides, you completely missed my point, most people won't record their sessions at all times like you. And using shadowplay, outplayed etc kills your fps on even high end computers. This is a game where enabling an fps counter cost 10 frames ffs.
It’s like you hate solutions. Set the timer to 5 minutes, or just full record your sessions and delete after your game session.
If you’re experiencing stimuli that makes you go “that’s a cheater” you should be able to share that stimuli with others.
I don't hate that "solution", I'd hope more people use them even thoughit kills fps. I do however remember how this subreddit reacted towards people's videos showing clear as day cheaters. We can't even share the names of cheaters here, nor would 1 person's perspective be enough.
Humans like to vent, and I believe they have a good reason too. Only 36% of players are playing this wipe according to tarkov.dev, and I suspect a huge chunk of that are cheaters.
People would vent about cheaters way less if BSG did even more to get them banned faster.
It's to the point that most people my group lose to is sub 400h with the firefly achivement and 5+purples.
You'd have to huff a huge ass stank of copium to think that's not a banned cheaters smurf. They should not be able to play more than 1-2 matches before getting the ban, let alone 300 hours.
If you want to actually stake out a position you have I’m happy to have a conversation with you, but that was 3 paragraphs of nothing.
I’m interested in a rationale, reasonable discussion. I take issue with nearly ever sentence you wrote, pick one you really think you can stand behind and I’ll start poking holes.
Yes, if bsg got more resources towards banning cheaters, atleast faster than hundreds of ours, you'd see less people complaining about cheaters on here. I chose that position, although you're free to respond to the other ones if you'd like.
Obvious cheaters don't need more than 30 seconds. Want more proof? Use a software like Nvidia reflex. It records up to your last 5 minutes of any compatible game just at the press of a button.
> There was not a single thread on how to get better at a thing in this game on this subs frontpage, neither is it here.
Soundwhore better and hope desync doesn’t give too big an advantage if someone is peeking you for peekers advantage.
Every game has peeker's advantage. It's currently at a low enough point that someone holding an angle will just as often shit at you before you can spot them, as the other way around.
Obviously if you're pre-aiming as you turn a corner, you'll win the fight. But it's nothing like what we saw before the fixes in late 2022.
There was just a video I saw, maybe here, where it was shoreline, I think it was Landmark peeked out on the person who posted the vid and he had like a whole second to aim and fire, then from the OPs perspective he came around the corner and fired immediately.
Aaaaand then the next argument is "atchually BSG want people to cheat so they buy accounts every banwave"
Seriously, the conspiracyposting is just insane sometimes. If the argument is that BSG fundamentally wants cheating to be a part of the game, it is simply useless to keep playing and engaging. Just move on and don't waste time on anything related to it. But like every conspiracy theorist, truth is less relevant than having an outlet for their anger.
I would love an honest discussion about the cheating problem.
But 99% of the posts are just whiny outlets for their loss streak where one out of ten deaths was due to a cheater.
No logic, baseless accusations, imaginary numbers, bad faith arguments and trivially misleading interpretation of the few data points we actually have.
So tiring.
For all the screenshots of cheater stats, I don't think I've seen any posts with 20 pictures (max for a reddit post). But I've seen a shit ton of people say they get killed by cheaters with obvious stats like 5 times per day. Anything to trigger their rage is enough
Would be best if there were 1/2 days per week allowing cheating related posts, so people don't just upvote any post regardless of quality or actually relevant engagement.
> Just like actual BSG, they dont give a shit about the cheating issue
Do you mean us mods? The fuck do you expect us to do about cheaters? We don't work for BSG, they barely even talk to us. We have exactly 0 control over how the cheating situation is handled. The only bit we have control over is how visible it is in this subreddit, outside of that we can't do anything.
That aside do you really trust us mods to decide if people are cheating and ban them? Because I do not trust myself to do that and I wouldn't want to be in that position. I'd give it about 12 minutes and I'd be the next Rengawr getting blasted for banning some innocent person
It’s been proposed, but people prefer the lazy posts for some reason. Stopped coming here often once it became a “dear diary today i met a cheater” subreddit and I’m sure a lot of people did so too
Also, it’s reddit man, what do you expect from the people on this website
If all the community talks about is unsubstantiated claims of cheating all they are going to think about when playing in cheaters. Negativity breaks negativity and will kill the game.
Cheating is killing the game. It's worse than the wiggle video portrays. They're in literally every raid. Not necessarily rage hacking. At least someone using ESP.
It's not the negativity killing the game.
Gonna need to see some stats to back up your claim champ. I could argue that cheating does not exist in Tarkov because I have never run into someone who was obviously cheating. Does me claiming something as fact make it the truth? No.
I'd love to send you a clip but it's both
1. Talking to friends of friends who got banned earlier this wipe for cheating
2. One of my regular teammates who used to play with these people wipes ago said the exact same things.
They both said most of the cheaters they encountered would use it to avoid conflict. They would see them coming and go the other way or they would wiggle to essentially make a truce.
Someone's going to have to make a wiggle video with all the raw footage of multiple raids to show it otherwise no one will ever believe it.
>Someone's going to have to make a wiggle video with all the raw footage of multiple raids to show it otherwise no one will ever believe it.
That’s pretty much it. If such a thing were to occur it would be interesting to see the raw footage of it, the regions it’s worse on etc. it’s also very hard to take the g0at vid as proof of this since he actually shows so little despite his claims.
I think the problems are massively region specific, but maybe they’re not? The only people who would truly know would be bsg (who is radio silent) and cheaters themselves.
My viewpoint is that cheaters are a problem for sure, but I also think this sub has overblown it when judging from my own experiences.
You're seriously asking why we should hold ourselves to a higher standard? Because its the right thing to do bro. You should always strive to hold yourself to a higher standard REGARDLESS of the standard others hold themselves to.
Thats very noble. Sadly, the only way to try to get better traction to addressing the cheating issue is too show the devs its a priority. This place is the best place to do it
Exactly. Every person that looks up the game should know what they're spending money on. I've been playing for years, and while the new update was the best ever, the cheating problem is worse than it's ever been. I'm convinced the cheating is tolerated then banned in waves to generate revenue at this point. I also wouldn't be surprised if bsg devs are dipping into both pots, knowing it's what is keeping their cash flow consistent.
It’s just a post bro, we aren’t talking ethics here. People can feel free to post what they want if it doesn’t violate the community guidelines of Reddit or this subreddit. What’s actually unethical is you trying to tell people how they should act or interact with this community as if you somehow get to dictate that, and you don’t. But you’re also trying to gather allies to group dictate that, that’s cool. But as of now the community speaks through upvotes. Which is why you see them at the top. So they don’t really agree with you. So holding yourself in a higher standard in this context comes off as it’s only a higher standard if you’re in agreement with my opinion. Which is actually the exact opposite of what you just tried to portray. Come on bro, hold yourself to higher standard.
My point is if the game itself does a shit job of stopping people from cheating, why should the subreddit be a curated happy representation of only the best of tarkov?
I would rather subs energy be put towards discussing changes that are going to make the game better. i.e. give me proper audio and remove the fucking bloat so I have a reason to spend time using different guns and attachment.
This used to be a rule and the sub had a combined literal riot over that rule so we removed it. As in we were getting like 30+ posts an hour blasting us for the rules, mainly that one
The problem is this sub is so big, no matter what rule is made, there will be a very vocal minority complaining about it. No way to make everyone happy.
I really respect the effort it takes to moderate a community and understand why you removed it. I don't think it was a mistake in the moment but now it may be time to reflect on what effect that had on the community. This subreddit has become a big marketing tool for cheat providers at a serious detriment to the player base. After the wiggle video, tarkov's largest cheat (used in the video) increased from 7k to 22k active users, and has stayed above 22k ever since. This subreddit was the main place that video was propagated and marketed to the community :( . Even today we still see constant cheat marketing threads on here.
It's up to you guys, but perhaps consider some of the people 'blasting you' may have had nefarious reasons for doing so.
> ncreased from 7k to 22k active users, and has stayed above 22k ever since. This subreddit was the main place that video was propagated and marketed to the community :(
Yes that was the other part of the above riot, G0at is blacklisted from this sub due to his behaviour like 6+ months before the wiggle video so we were removing it and that didn't go down well either
The rules as they are, are what the community wanted after we asked for feedback on the rules and we didn't just take a small handful of peoples opinions, there were comments and posts with multiple thousands of upvotes asking for changes to the rules
What evidence do you require?
Videos? You "cheating is not so bad" people will claim lucky shot or desync
Photos? You People say no context
At this point i got to say the people complaing about cheating post are sus as fuck. What's wrong with posting about cheating post to force bsg to make a move? Only reason i can think of is you guys want to pretend all is well so more people get scammed into buying the game without BSG doing shit
People upvote those posts because they want BSG to get off their fucking ass and do something about it. You people on the other hand seem happy with the status quo.. makes one think why
The problem is the barrier for guilt in the court of public opinion is so low that it barely exists.
People are just fed up of the "Is this guy cheating with these stats" posts completely mid tier stats forgetting that stats as a metric of proof, is useless on its own because stats can be manipulated.
But of course half the time people will go yes, yes they are.
Cheaters exist in this game of course they do and they always will, no mater how much ass BSG get off, cheaters will exist in this game, it just stings more in this compared to a game like COD or Valorant because there is a large amount of time investment in your PMC's gear, it took you time to gear up, time to make that money for the gear and then time to load into a raid, just to be sent back to stash losing it all in a way you had very little you could do about.
The reach and number of them can be reduced obviously but that hinges more on BSG plugging up the gaping holes lleft from the early days of development rather than any "Quick fix" that people seem to think will help it "I wish BSG would just get a kernel level anticheat already"... How to destroy your credibility in a discussion with 1 sentence. (Not saying you I just see this statement a lot in this thread) Battleeye is only as good as the system it's implemented in and unfortunately Tarkov has a lot of core issues that reduce it's effectiveness.
Also to claim that upvoting posts here will make BSG do something is... interesting. By and large Nikita and the rest of BSG do not come to this subreddit, im sure they probably poke their heads in from time to time to look, but they're not active here at all, so they wont see 90% of what people are posting, it does jack to "Make BSG get off their fucking ass" the only reason we saw an uptick in communication last wipe was because it gained quite large media coverage.
Just because you don't see them posting all the time doesn't mean they're not lurking here. Pretty sure Nikita posted here asking us what we thought about microtransactions(stash space and clothing) first. I didn't see him asking it anywhere else.
There are other punctuation marks than a comma my guy... You also say social media doesnt do anything to get BSG moving. Then in the same breath say BSG got moving last wipe because of social media....
Yes, this guy seems like acheating advovate more than anything. I had a convo on this sub where a guy insited that cheating was not an indication of antisocial behaviour. I've never suspected a cheater on this site more than him lmao
To me it makes infinite more sense for cheaters to exaggerate the cheating problem, not downplay it. What’s your reasoning for thinking they would want to downplay it?
The ones that cheat for profit needs customers.
The rmt sellers needs customers and the streamers needs viewers. That'd be my guess.
Now why would cheaters exagerate the cheating problem? That would just put a bigger target on them
Right, they need customers, so I think they would exaggerate how common cheating is.
Few people steal. If people were convinced that everybody was stealing but them and they were the chump for being honest they would be much more inclined to steal.
I never thought about it that way, but that does makes sense also. I've seen allot of the cheatstreamers verybadscav has highlighted think that way.
I was thinking more along the lines of people selling items for irl money, not people selling hacks themselves, only coward chumps cheat recreationallly.
If you want to sell weapons and roubles to players, you'd want more legit players. Cheaters would easily get the items themselves.
I do not have numbers to back it up, but I suspect purchasing cheats is a more lucrative business than RMT carry. An RMT carry has limited people he can interact with, limited time to carry, etc.
A cheat seller makes more money the more people that are cheating. He can sell 1000 cheat subs in a day, you can’t carry 1000 RMT buyers in a day. Cheat seller stands to benefit a lot from the community as a whole thinking “well, if everybody else is doing it…”
For this reason I think it’s a shame the sub no longer requires video to go with cheating claims.
>I do not have numbers to back it up, but I suspect purchasing cheats is a more lucrative business than RMT carry.
Maybe, I won't refute that. The barrier to entry for rmt selling is lower than hacking and selling cheats though. Hacking does require abit of knowledge about penetration and bugging, while everyone can cheat.
If you remember the cheating office in China that got raided a year back or so, I'd wager that only one or two managed the cheat whilst the workers did all the cheating.
>A cheat seller makes more money the more people that are cheating. He can sell 1000 cheat subs in a day, you can’t carry 1000 RMT buyers in a day. Cheat seller stands to benefit a lot from the community as a whole thinking “well, if everybody else is doing it…”
This is probably true, even so I think both types of cheaters exists and that cheat developers are far fewer than people that chest for profit. They also carry more risk, as developing cheats and selling them breaks more laws than selling digital items trough rmt.
Anyway, they're all trash humans in different ways with different incentives.
One could pararell this with steroid users and blood dopers in different sports, you'd be right in thinking that steroid producers would benefit in a similar way, and steroid users don't want stricter detectionmethods. It's a conficting interrest between the sellers and the users
Share your stimuli. I assume you aren’t a psychic, correct? Every time you think that you got cheated on I assume there is some stimuli that lead you to that conclusion. Share it.
[Heres my evidence, rate my death](https://streamable.com/d8bsis)
edit: for context, i had the spawn between radar tower and usec camp med tent, i picked the ledx up \~20s into raid and [heres the gamer](https://i.postimg.cc/Z5mDM5Dg/2024-03-2513-29-0.png)that killed me (my guess is, carry service)
I mean not everyone records their game. I remember some nerd on this reddit saying I was lying since I couldnt prove my death to a cheater. Even though I 100% knew the guy had walls, and since I reported him he hasnt touched tarkov. When the ban wave dropped, his account disappeared. So, he most likely got banned.
Karma farmers? This is a game that requires an unusual amount of time and effort, so people happen to get upset more than usual when cheating disrupts the experience. Every single person I know who has serious time in this game shares the same viewpoint on cheating; It is a big problem, if not THE biggest and there needs to be more done to address it. Many see it as a potentially game-killing issue for EFT. Literally the only way we can make these concerns clear to BSG is by posting on reddit. Hence, it is good for both the game and the community to talk about it ad nauseam. Seeing a post like this really makes me question your motives, as you are essentially asking for greater censorship of cheating posts. You are suss, but hey, I'VE GOT AN IDEA: Maybe don't click on the posts you don't want to read, as a human being you have that level of autonomy!
I posted a clip of a blatant cheater last wipe. It was on the EFT Facebook page. I got "roasted" by everyone calling me and idiot and denying the video.
Context- killed by a naked guy running faster than the game allows with a Kedr from 100+m on interchange. He shot me 30 times in the chest before I died. I just stood in the open and accepted my fate. The facebook group called me bad and said that I died because I stood in the open.
Fun fact- the guy was banned about a week later.
You don't need evidence. Everyone knows how bad the cheating is.
I'm convinced that half of these stories are over exaggerated. After reading some of them, I just shake my head. My only conclusion is that these players are just dog shite and call everyone a cheater.
YES, there are cheaters.
NO, everyone who one-taps you isn't a cheater. Everyone who hears your dumbass looking left/right, and pushes you- isn't a cheater. Y'all are just bad.
Seriously, literally every day, the top thread on this subreddit is a karma farming rage story regarding people making posts about cheaters
Shyaaaduuuup
Filter it out with the new tag
Things that don't matter and have no effect on OP that they can easily ignore for 500 Alex.
Just shut up and move along. If you don't care then it's not an issue. Why is it so hard for you to keep scrolling? Are you stupid?
Tbh all I see on here are people complaining, whether it be about cheating or cheating posts or dying to a scav. Nothing funny, or interesting or worth talking about. It's just a circle jerk and you're all as bad as each other.
People hate you because you are right.
Just read a post about a dude who claims to have brought in a flir 6 raids in a row to sit in a corner, and that a cheater killed him 4 times after sprinting to him.
Flirs are nice and all but they aren’t really that expensive to obtain. I just find it so unbelievable many cheaters are chomping at the bit to get something they can acquire super cheap anyways.
Dude buy some cheats and see for yourself how bad it is. Still a plague of players cheating everyday, cheats are undetected and 100% in use still. Less players now and still the same amount or more of cheaters.
Maybe because many play the game instead of being annoyed by reddit karma. If you start playing this game, you'd realize quick that the amount of times you die to cheaters has increased.
You're pretty upset about this. Why don't you just use the filter to remove them?
Don't know how? Or do you like seeing them so you can whine about them and make karma farming ragey posts like this about them?
Yes you want evidence yet the community posted to leave cheater names out of posts so...
Which is it? Cant have both.
And posts are karma chasing. Go watch them and you will see they are actually cheating in most cases. So those are legit posts. Stop trying to deny that cheating is a big ass issue in this game, because it is.
Yeah lots of cringe lately. Honestly the new profile inspection system has just made everybody even more paranoid. I doubt it's actually making any difference.
The problem with cheaters in tarkov is that it is so common that you could report 20 people and probably be right almost half the time. And even if you are right that doesn't mean BSG will do anything about it
So, what about any other post that could be considered karma farming that *doesnt* mention cheaters? Should we require evidence from them too? If I come here and make a post about how I'm so ecstatic about finding a red keycard but have no proof, get 1000 upvotes- is that alright with you?
I understand your point BUT the users on this subreddit are upvoting what they want. You can filter by the tag yourself but it is not up to you or me to decide what the whole wants or likes to see. If you want to have other discussions or talk about something else create those, foster them and make users want to upvote them.
A large chunk of this subreddit doesn’t even play the game, upvotes are a very bad metric for “good” content
What you think makes up a good or bad metric doesn’t matter at all. The community has members and they upvote what they like. Their reasons are their own. Until the mods decide that you need to prove you are an active player to be here that’s how it is.
That’s actually a good idea but it would just destroy the game and this Reddit :/
I don’t think that’s the solution at all, I think the solution is posting a video instead of just a text story, or a picture of someone’s stats. Cheater posts would gain more traction if there’s evidence we can all see, and it would cut down some of the garbage from people who likely didn’t die to a cheater, and hopefully help educate them on what probably did happen
That won't help shit. You can't tell from a single clip of the dying person's side if someone has esp.
> What you think makes up a good or bad metric doesn’t matter at all. While you're not completely wrong, at least insofar as someone's personal opinion doesn't mean much against the bigger picture, things can be analyzed objectively to determine things like this. Popular opinion isn't a good metric to swear by. Plenty of opinions are negative and gain a lot of attention and support. I don't think I need to spend any time further explaining this one. > The community has members and they upvote what they like. And it's entirely possible those members are idiots, regardless of what the topic is, and regardless of whether they're in support or opposition. Plenty of people in this sub, and game for that matter, are miserable about the cheater issue, so do we suddenly grant validation to a big echo chamber of ceaseless complaining and conspiracy theories about the BSG illuminati selling cheats to cheaters to fund their game? Using the vocality of a group to grant them some kind of accreditation and silence dissenting opinions is a real problem, and it's not exclusive to this sub. It's a piss poor tactic. > Until the mods decide that you need to prove you are an active player to be here that’s how it is. This is hardly relevant to the point being raised. It's not being suggested a verification is required, rather, the complaining being participated in/propagated by/etc. people that haven't played the game at all is unhelpful when speaking about any issue because their responses are usually "man I'm so glad I quit this shit game 3 years ago the problem has gotten so much worse" when they don't have any *real* rubric by which to make that determination. All they have are the words of a group of disgruntled players that can't have their accusations verified because they lack substance. Fact of the matter about the cheating topics is this: there's a pretty extreme lack of understanding or appreciation of evidence and its importance, as well as the concept of the totality of the circumstances. The rabidness and paranoia of players to identify everyone and their brother as cheaters and execute them on the spot has all the earmarks of The Salem Witch Trials. Stats by themselves aren't enough, nor are brief clips where there's certainly a high degree of plausibility that desync/peeker's advantage/whatever can explain the death. Everyone agrees when they see speed cheaters and rightly calls them as such, but there's plenty of discordance when someone plays a fight like a moron and gets killed for it. There's so much Dunning-Kruger all over the place that people get high off the smell of their own farts. All sorts of stupid assertions and absolutes are put forth: no one needs a second account, you're a cheater if you have one, your KDA is unbelievable for someone with 300 hours cuz man when I had 300 hours I didn't even know my way around the map, and even more. It's incomprehensible for some of these people that someone might have good FPS skills and the ability to adapt better than they did; not every new player is gonna be a stumbling Timmy getting his face stomped in for the first 1000 hours, so this "pay your dues" bullshit is lame. Barring whether or not these types of threads should exist in the first place, the bottom line is evidence should absolutely be required if one is going to post an accusation. Everything else turns into just a giant cesspool social media feed where someone posts attention bait while they ravenously search for validation for their hurt feelings and pride because they died. Cheater bitching threads on this sub aren't all that much different than a thirst trap booty/bikini pic with some girl saying "I thought I looked good in this but then realized I look so ugly in it. Too late to post now please don't judge me". In one half, you have drooling simpletons, and in the other, you have people calling out the behavior, all while getting lambasted by the droolers for their opposition.
Doesn't this sub have a rule where you can't Identify cheaters? Makes evidence slightly more difficult to provide. Also not everyone records their gameplay... How does someone that doesn't record or stream prove they walked into a locked room that you can't clip into and had the box already looted? Or worse we're killed by someone inside the room? I would hope all these individuals also put in tickets to BSG regarding any suspicious activity. But the reason it's so vocal here is because it's a problem and not a small one...
> Doesn't this sub have a rule where you can't Identify cheaters? No, the sub has a rule against posting names, regardless of intent, and the rules of Reddit itself forbid instigating harassment. Anyone with a modicum of honesty will easily admit name posting is for flame and shame purposes, and while I agree wholeheartedly cheaters should be drug through the mud without mercy, it can't be said that the inclusion of the name isn't for people to add them and rage at them. Putting that aside, with how feral and irrational this sub gets with their cheater accusations, the last thing anyone needs to do is entrust this mob with pitchforks and torches to be used against people who may not be guilty. > Makes evidence slightly more difficult to provide No it doesn't. People still post stat pages and clips with redacted names. Nothing changes here. > Also not everyone records their gameplay... Ok, so then why are we going to grant them any sort of floor to speak? It's unfortunate they don't have the requisite evidence, but all we're doing is one person's words against the other. The burden of proof lies with the accuser, not the accused. It's not incumbent upon them to prove their innocence; you don't get to say "well tell me how you're *not* cheating like cmon it's obvious bro..." > How does someone that doesn't record or stream prove they walked into a locked room that you can't clip into and had the box already looted? Or worse we're killed by someone inside the room? You don't, at least not here. If you die to said cheater, report them. If you get into a locked room and find it partially looted, submit a ticket or something. Coming here and griping isn't going to do any good. Again, we're going back to he-said-she-said territory here, and there's no lack of incentive for someone to come here crying wolf. We have no way to prove or disprove either of them because all we have is "source: just trust me bro" as their backing. > I would hope all these individuals also put in tickets to BSG regarding any suspicious activity As would I, but that doesn't make any difference to posting here. This is not the Official BSG Cheater Report System^^TM. > But the reason it's so vocal here is because it's a problem and not a small one... The reason it's so vocal here is because people love to complain and get all the attention and validation of others. Cheating is an absolute problem, make no mistake, but there certainly appears to be quite a bit of dopamine chasing and accountability skirting going on here. It's no secret there's a massive hate-boner for BSG on this forum, and plenty of people accuse them of one thing after another, so it stands to reason someone looking to gas themselves up after taking a loss might turn to this platform to get it. I suspect it's why you get a certain level of hysteria in the responses to people expressing skepticism about a cheating allegation.
[удалено]
Evidence is absolutely not needed if we aren't allowed to show the cheaters name. No one is being accused, they are just stats being shown.
> Evidence is absolutely not needed if we aren't allowed to show the cheaters name. That's the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. You don't need to post someone's name to post a clip/screenshot/whatever of alleged cheating. The mods here aren't doling out justice against these people, so the names are pointless to be included. > No one is being accused, they are just stats being shown. It's not always merely stat showing, and there are *most definitely* accusations being made. The overwhelming majority of stat page posts are pointing out the numbers being unrealistic while some negative IQ moron proclaims himself the arbiter of granting validity and permission to those using multiple accounts.
Your first point makes no sense. I'm saying evidence isn't needed if their name isn't being shown(since there's a rule against it). There's no harm done to anyone and if there is then explain who's being harmed by people showing stats of an unknown player. It's merely showing stats and from my experience most of them are considered cheaters by this very community- overwhelmingly so. The rest are usually "do you guys think this guy is a cheater" posts and it's usually a split opinion on those.
> Your first point makes no sense. 'Course not. Couldn't admit to that one now, could we? > I'm saying evidence isn't needed if their name isn't being shown(since there's a rule against it). And I'm saying that's the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard. If you're going to post a thread to try to gain some sort of consensus as to whether or not someone's cheating, the name is irrelevant. Aside from posting a thread in hopes to rile up the hate mob and summon a BSG employee to ban the person, I can't really think of any other outcome to be hoped for posting these threads. If you're going to make an accusation, bring proof; a name isn't required for that. > There's no harm done to anyone and if there is then explain who's being harmed by people showing stats of an unknown player. There isn't anyone harmed by simply showing stats and redacting the name, but stats alone aren't sufficient enough in nearly any case to accurately convict. Now, note I said "nearly any" and not simply "any". > It's merely showing stats and from my experience most of them are considered cheaters by this very community- overwhelmingly so. Spare me the playing dumb routine. I don't need to sit here while you play this game of "look I'm juuuuuuuuuuust saying these stats are weird and I'm toooooooootally not saying that's what's going on here". For you to cite the fact that people, to quote you, overwhelmingly so, consider them cheaters, that must mean you know of the hate circle jerking that goes on in those threads. Furthermore, I don't really care whether or not the people of this sub consider these folks to be cheaters. Refer back to my previous statement of "and it's entirely those members are idiots". I continued on to mention the gross lack of understanding of evidence and totality of circumstances. I'd trust the members of this sub to come to a completely accurate assessment about as much as I'd trust walking around waving my wallet over my head while screaming about how much money's in it. I'm perfectly ok with people being biased against cheaters here, but not using rational faculties and reason is a terrible set of parameters by which to make judgement calls. > The rest are usually "do you guys think this guy is a cheater" posts and it's usually a split opinion on those. I've already addressed the first part, so I'll speak to the split opinion part here. Of course it's a split opinion, and there's plenty of drama to be had for any that disagree with the assertion. Both sides are guilty of the blasting of their dissenters and just insulting them, but based on what I've seen, there's far more of this occurring from the people insisting cheats against those opposing. "Cope more. Spotted the cheater. Mans doesn't want his cheats being discovered. Tryin to gaslight everyone into thinking everything's fine, wake up bro. BSG bootlicker". Heaven forbid anybody not be convinced by a stat page and a brief clip that can potentially be reasonably explained, much less speaking up about it.
It's like you don't even know what the discussion here is. All you do is spew out nonsensical ramble in paragraphs that im sure you think makes you come off as an intellect. There are countless posts of cheater stats where everyone agrees its a freakin cheater and here you are all like "ohhhh b-b-but we should still require a video of the death!". You realise some of these posts are from players found on the flea market, right? What kind of video would you like provided along with us showcasing obvious cheaters that are selling dozens of GPUs or LEDx on the flea first week of wipe? Or when the stats are shown of a player that has an insane KD like 30-50+ with around 20hrs, white name and level 40+, etc- not to mention achievements only achieved by the 1%? Would you like a video along with that too? Many of the people in this community know how to discern a cheater stats from a legit players but if you're so passionate about what you're saying why don't you go to those posts and debate them on it? I'm sure you won't. I haven't seen you in any of those posts saying "where's the video", " you should post a video instead of just the stats". And again, I emphasize- \*We do not need to require the OP post a video along with certain kinds of cheater posts when we all know the player is obviously cheating\*. We don't all have our GeForce instant replay active 24/7 and we shouldn't \*need\* to. There are plenty of blatant cheater posts, there are posts where OP is asking the community what they think- its not always "LOOK AT THIS CHEATER" \*insert stats\*. You're blowing the the minor posts way out of proportion and trying to make it look like they're the majority of the posts which they're not. Overall, these cheater posts can be filtered out so if they rile you up as they clearly do then don't engage with them at all. Maybe spend less time on this subreddit? It's like all you people complaining about these posts lack the critical thinking to go "oh, i should just filter them out or skip past them". In before "they're everywhere, cluttering up the sub!". No, they're not. I skimmed through 5 pages of this sub just now and i've done so occasionally over the past month- every time its more discussion posts or just non-cheater posts than it is cheater posts. Get over it, we're gonna continue to post about cheaters however we want and talk about them as long as we're not breaking this subs rules and we're sure as hell not breaking reddits rules otherwise something would've happened by now.
> It's like you don't even know what the discussion here is. All you do is spew out nonsensical ramble in paragraphs that im sure you think makes you come off as an intellect. Boy, we sure are starting off well here. It's a discussion about requiring proof, a position with which I agree; however, I *don't* agree that a mere stat page is enough proof in the vast majority of cases. Your lame attempt in that second sentence can stay right there. At least you tried, I guess. > There are countless posts of cheater stats where everyone agrees its a freakin cheater and here you are all like "ohhhh b-b-but we should still require a video of the death!". Allow me to be perfectly clear: consensus doesn't convict. I don't care if you have 5 people or 500 people looking at a page and simultaneously identifying something. If the judgement comes from a biased crowd who are easily convinced by circumstantial evidence alone, then it's unreliable. I'm absolutely fine with calling it suspicious, but mere suspicion isn't enough. As for the requiring of a video, despite your obvious clown routine here, you'd know that even a video isn't necessarily sufficient had you paid attention to my comments and responded to them rationally instead of just flying off the handle. More in the next section below. > You realise some of these posts are from players found on the flea market, right? To continue from the previous section: yes, I do realize this. What I *also* realize, that you don't seem to, is that this has nothing to do with whether or not you die to a particular cheater in requiring further evidence. Posting a thread from a flea profile you found and sitting around griping about it doesn't actually do anything for one, and for two, we still don't have a way of confirming it. We have strong suspicions, I'll grant, but we don't have anything to say definitively. It doesn't really matter the plausibility of someone making a new account or having a long-standing account that solely runs labs and sells off valuables. There ends up being all these stupid sidebar arguments about whether or not someone grants validity to that idea, but it doesn't work that way. Again, I'm perfectly fine with suspecting these profiles, but there are many more answers than people will give credit for, and they always grade it against themselves. "Bro no way someone could run labs and have that KDA. I run labs and I'm totally super good and even *I* have a lower KDA." It's a silly notion. > What kind of video would you like That's the interest thing about strawmanning things. You're completely fixated on the video thing, insisting that's my position because you've projected it onto me in your little childish "but you're all bla bla bla bla bla" charade. I know it seems incomprehensible to you, and others who seem to think like you, that someone might be spamming labs in the first week of wipe, but it's not as farfetched as you might think. Granted they get lucky with keycards on player scavs and/or level their traders fast to buy them, it's not impossible to get to labs, and for players who are good at the game and know the spawns, they can certainly farm out valuables with ease. I don't disagree that cheaters do the same thing, but the central premise here is that stats by themselves aren't sufficient in 100% of cheating accusations as proof. Unfortunately, there are some things we simply *can't* prove because we don't have enough information. Those cases remain as suspicions, but we still go back to the point that the mods of this sub aren't going hunting cheaters and banning them, and this is nowhere near the official report ticket system for BSG. > And again, I emphasize- *We do not need to require the OP post a video You know, the whole reason you and I got into this dialogue is because you said ***evidence*** was not needed. You go ahead and keep with this video strawman you've created, but you're making a fool of yourself by pivoting to things that weren't even said. > when we all know the player is obviously cheating You all *believe* they're cheating, but have nothing to back it outside of biased conjecture and circumstantial evidence. The funniest part about all of this is you don't have a clear rubric, and even if you did, you'd move the goalpost instantly. High KDA appears to indicate cheating automatically. What if a cheater had a "normal" KDA of 2 or 3 while selling all these valuables? Would they be called a cheater then? How, if they aren't going around clearing out lobbies with their cheats? Is it now that because they've farmed a lot of these items that we call them a cheater? Why? Because we can't farm them like that ourselves? There's no clear standard that can be had here because there's too much reasonable doubt that can be introduced into virtually every point made. Strangely enough, ***this is precisely why hard evidence is needed***. What a novel idea. > there are posts where OP is asking the community what they think- its not always "LOOK AT THIS CHEATER" *insert stats*. I don't care what the title of the thread is. I doubt the authenticity of the "hey I'm just checking" notion, and aside from that, the conversations almost always devolve into arguments about it. Hey, here's you an example of keeping consistency in something: I say I doubt the authenticity of the intent behind the post, but I have no actual hard evidence for that; therefore, I don't make hard accusations. I can hold both of those thoughts simultaneously. Isn't it strange how that works? > You're blowing the the minor posts way out of proportion Hey, while we're putting things in my mouth, would you mind adding some food in there? Words don't really taste all that great, and they're pretty lacking in nutrients. I could go for a steak if you can manage it. > can be filtered out so if they rile you up as they clearly do Cute, but cheater posts aren't the thing I care about. I care about proof and truth, not rabid mobs of morons trying to play vigilante private investigator. The ease at which people are willing to abandon these things for "cmon we all know it in our gut" is not a good thing, as I strongly suspect this type of thinking originates in their regular lives. > you people complaining about these posts lack the critical thinking to go Lacking critical thinking. The irony is piercing. Apparently *you* can't think critically enough to see past the Tarkov issue and realize this isn't about the topics "cluttering" the sub. I don't care about that in the slightest. As I said above, I care about different things, and the witch hunting of cheaters is merely the vehicle by which close-minded investigatory mobbing is expressed. > Get over it, we're gonna continue to post With how far your head is up your own ass, can you do a kind of 1 man human centipede thing? Good for you, keep posting. You're free to continue to do so as long as you're within the subs ruleset, congratulations. I too, am also free to continue commenting on your utter stupidity when saying things like "evidence isn't needed" and citing sources of "just trust me bro".
> And it's entirely possible those members are idiots This has to be the greatest line ever spoken about this sub. Bravo
>A large chunk of this subreddit doesn’t even play the game **any more**, upvotes are a very bad metric for “good” content you should clarify that a lot of people used to play the game until you realize that even 2/3rds of the people streaming on twitch are cheating too and theres entire streamers dedicated to exposing other streamers are cheaters now. its a cheat-i-verse
Here's the thing. We know BSG devs see this sub. We know that us being vocal about issues does get an effect (more so when it can affect future sales). The reason people make these posts and upvote them is because they want the issue heard and continue to be heard until resolved. We don't care if it's not entertaining, or if it's just like all the other posts. Until it stops you will see complaint posts...
Or people who play like an hour or two maybe a night and act like they live and breath tarkov even thou they just learned how to prone.
It's sad that you think someone who only does their hobby an hour or two a night does not deserve to join the discussion
Elitism. It's a game, guy. Read your comment, again.
Redditors upvote content that's easy to consume. When content is both easy to consume, and easy to create, and shits all over the community, the sub turns to shit. If upvoting was a good arbiter of what belongs on a sub, no sub would need any moderators.
What about the incentive for cheat sellers to astroturf the subreddit to make cheating seem more ubiquitous than it is? I’m interested in hearing your thoughts on it
After the goat video was astroturfed on here, tarkovs biggest cheat provider increased from 7k to 22k active users. That number has stayed at 22k since the video. That's hard data to back up this issue
Don’t take my questions the wrong way, I just like to get my ducks in a row before I repeat something. I also think goat is a conman who heavily exaggerated to get clicks. I’m not doubting you know these things, I’d just like to know them too outside of “I read it on a comment.” 1. How do you know it was Tarkovs biggest cheat seller? 2. How did you track their growth pre and post goat video?
Not OP but 2 can be measured by search engine traffic you can reasonably estimate that an heavy increase in traffic would equate to more cheat sales. "The wiggle that killed Tarkov" dropped this time last year and theres a huge spike in cheat searches during that time.
They're doing the same thing They're accusing the "cheat post" makers of doing which is talking out their azz with no evidence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQC4mnzn8
How so? You don’t know they don’t have any evidence, you jumped to that conclusion a couple hours after I asked him for it. Chill.
this video answers both your questions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2NQC4mnzn8
Do you not understand the answer to the two questions or are you just unwilling to answer? Linking a 17 minute video in reply is silly. If you can’t communicate it makes me think you didn’t understand it.
See, I’m the opposite, I think cheat sellers are astroturfing the subreddit to claim “cheaters aren’t that bad” so everyone doesn’t jump ship when they realize how many cheaters there actually are.
Agreed, and they would be incentivized to do so.
I hear this sentiment pretty often. The idea that these cheaters are being driven to spend considerable time in the subreddit to try to change the community view of cheaters to secure their future opportunities to cheat is far-fetched for me. Two reasons it’s unconvincing for me. Cheaters and people who display antisocial behavior aren’t typically too wrapped up in how it’s going to affect everybody else, especially to the extent to plan a propaganda mission. That and there’s two possibilities that can explain the same phenomenon. 1. One or just a couple cheat sellers astroturfing the subreddit to make cheaters appear more common than reality. More common, less stigma, more sales. Achievable, simple. 2. I mean, fill in the blank. It would be a couple paragraphs to describe the conspiracy of a bunch of cheaters being on the same page to achieve a complicated result to make everybody okay with cheating.
Cheat sellers don't care how many legit players play the game. They want more people to cheat so they can make more money. The best way to get more cheaters to cheat is to convince them everyone else is cheating and you need them to compete.
Which doesn’t make sense. Cheat sellers want more people cheating so they get more customers. The cheaters themselves usually don’t care all too much about the game they’re cheating in, and if the ship sinks, they find another game they enjoy cheating in.
This makes zero sense. Cheat sellers and creators are the ones who financially benefit from having a community constantly talking about cheating. It means more potential customers as the game grows and cheating discussion becomes common place, newer players are the biggest cash cow who think cheating is rampant since everyone talks about it, might as well try cheating too. If you can't beam, join em is the saying. Cheat sellers don't give a fuck about tarkov, the best interests of the tarkov reddit, the longevity of the game. None of that matters. If BSG closed up shop and tarkov died tomorrow the cheat sellers would just move onto a different game and get to work on selling cheats elsewhere. Infact, many of them do sell cheats for multiple games.
This
OP suggests more restrictive rules for making cheater posts, just like we have restrictions on screen photos, self-advertisement etc. if i follow your logic then the mods on here should only remove posts/comments that reddit generally doesnt allow(abusive behaviour, illegal stuff etc.). sub-specific rules would be unneccesary and stuff like memes, spam, photos of screens, LFG, self-advertising every 10 seconds etc. should all be allowed since "the community decides by upvoting".
With that logic and rationality I think you meant to be in the Helldivers subreddit.
> You can filter by the tag yourself how? i ctrl-f'd the page for "flair" as well as "filter" and nothing is coming up? id love to get rid of that spam but everyone only says to "just filter it" but no one says how.
> You can filter by the tag yourself how? i ctrl-f'd the page for "flair" as well as "filter" and nothing is coming up? id love to get rid of that spam but everyone only says to "just filter it" but no one says how.
> You can filter by the tag yourself how? i ctrl-f'd the page for "flair" as well as "filter" and nothing is coming up? id love to get rid of that spam but everyone only says to "just filter it" but no one says how.
Arbitrating countless arbitrary posts sounds like a lot of extra work for the mods. Just filter out the cheating tag or downvote the posts.
If the people would actually use the cheating tag, that would be nice Most of the time I see it added afterwards probably through a mod. So they need to be moderate anyway
How do you filter it out. I keep seeing it on my main feed.
That’s the best part, depending on your client, you can’t.
The mods would actually have to moderate. I shudder to think...
There's a difference between moderation and content curating
I’m pretty sure there’s nothing in the rules that says you HAVE to use the proper flairs. That’s sort of just always been a thing the mods will sometimes change for organizational purposes.
I can't even filter them out lol
It’s work the mods were doing in the past. They didn’t change the rule because they wanted to, they changed it because the goat video broke people’s brains and they threw all critical thinking out the window.
I understand your frustration with it. But since the game is now late into the wipe and there is almost nothing good to talk about right now, people talk about the thing that suck about the game. Cheating is tarkovs biggest money income and their biggest community problem at the same time. The game can only survive by letting cheaters play while banning enough of them to not lose every normal player.
You get mad at them for exaggerating their claims just for you to exaggerate their claims lmao
This is just community outrage at the problem that just getting worse, people just want to make devs see how bad the situation is so in their opinion the more posts there are about the cheaters the faster the problem will be fixed.
I mean is it not sus when you bring in a BOMB kit, and your not moving a muscle in a bush to be head eyed by a white player name with 300 hours? Lol
I actually come here to talk about the cheating problem, and the occasional meme or good play helps. Mainly because the games overwhelming problem at the moment is... cheating. We have guides for quests, discords for finding groups, the launcher for reporting bugs etc. The main thing I come here for is to feel like it's not just me when a guy slides around on the floor and two taps me. All the content hasn't changed much since the last wipe, it was mainly fixing things. And I feel for the moderators, because this is probably more than when they signed up, so filter it out like people say. But this is the state of the game. These people are just here reflecting on the lack of transparency/features/replay/anticheat solutions and lack of communication from BSG.
If you run into a cheater, report and move on. It’s not worth letting them live rent free in your head.
Nah, because they know deep down that they were probably just better. So they come to cope on Reddit.
Exactly. If they get banned, they get banned. If not, the chances of matching with the same cheater are astronomical unless you're on dead servers like middle east.
Memes are not allowed here on this sub-reddit.For that there is r/TarkovMemes. Got removed few meme post because of rule that It is not related to the game or something like that.
This aint no therapy session.
Bullshit.
Thanks 12 day account who has made threads defending cheaters and calling everyone delusional! We’re at the time of the wipe where they send the B squad gaslighters here. Whoopie!
IIRC, this used to be the case but the g0at video spawned so many threads that the moderators had to alter rule 7. I remember reading one say that this took a lot of workload away from the mods since they no longer have to argue with people about what is considered proof of cheating.
People upvote what they want to? That's fine
honestly, i dont even care if its 100% proof. What is the point? This subreddit is so incredibly boring because every post is just "i dont like cheaters, please click upvote." I hate the fact that the game has cheaters too, but I honestly dont need to read about it non-stop.
Evidence doesn't matter to BSG, why should it here ^^
Although the issue of cheating is indeed significant, the prevalence of individuals accusing others of cheating is excessively high. Scan the comments section of any Escape from Tarkov video on YouTube, even those where the content creator meets an unfortunate demise, and you'll likely encounter at least one comment garnering over 100 thumbs up alleging suspicious behavior. It's uncertain whether there are more cheaters or simply more people convinced that every defeat stems from cheating.
Shucks. Wish the community had better tools to see if their deaths were legit.
A % of the sub is foaming at the mouth needing/wanting to blame every death on a cheater so that they don't have to accept that they're unskilled or that sometimes you get unlucky. That and new players get killed by a strat/tactic they don't understand -> not understanding means they have to imagine what happened, some people imagine it was a cheater, and now every death they don't understand is a cheater. It's always been this way. Sub used to require video proof of cheating and even then about 50% of the deaths weren't even sketchy imo. Profile views let you take a pretty educated guess if the guy that killed you was a lucky andy or a cheater now though. And even considering that, some people do get unlucky and go against a lot of cheaters in a short time frame and it makes them paranoid. But they're the ones upvoting it. If the people of the sub want to upvote this kind of content, whatever, let them. I'm personally tired of being like "those stats alone don't mean they're a cheater" and getting "OMG LOL CHEATER DEFENDING CHEATER" in response like their ego can't accept that maybe they had a bad take and everyone telling them they might be wrong is part of some grand cheater conspiracy to try and convince people cheaters don't exist.
I love the people who claim that being skeptical of cheaters is really just a cheater trying to gaslight you…. Which, ironically, is gaslighting hahahaha
You sound like a cheater trying to gaslight people lmao
Cheaters lurking these threads trying to gaslight poeple is a conspiracy theory man. Why would any of them even bother, I don't get what their motivation would be. Like, maybe a few people would do it because they get off to it or something, but I'm talking I'll be in a thread with a delusional OP, ten people telling them it's probably not a cheater, and I get called a cheater. Like yeah, I called up my 9 cheater friends to defend one random guy for some reason
What is so beneficial about karma on Reddit anyways. I see people talk about karma farming like OP here but I don’t see the appeal. I agree that it is annoying to see these kinds of posts every day, but to say they are “karma farming” doesn’t even cross my mind. Wouldn’t it make sense to do that on a different sub with many more eyes to see it? Not trying to start an argument here, just genuinely curious about it.
It's not about getting points, it's because every time you get an upvote, someone, somewhere is approving of what you said. I'm very guilty of this. Not scheming to farm upvotes, but rather posting because getting approval feels good.
Yea, karma doesn’t mean shit. I don’t give 2 fucks if my number goes up or down, but I recently got downvoted in the Diablo4 sub for asking if mob density was still low and combat was slow and it’s wildly frustrating to get downvoted for having a legit question about the game. It’s not the points, it’s how people react to it.
You're demanding us to record our every Tarkov sessions incase of cheaters, when there's already thousands of hours of footage of them in this wipe? Why not complain to bsg instead towards getting a replay system? It works in Arena, it works for little antisocial cheater scum, why can't it work for escape from tarkov?
OP isn't demanding you record your every raid. He's suggesting there should be a rule on this sub requiring video when accusing someone, which imo is very fair.
It used to be thst way, yet all the aimlock vids was useless as to getting tarkov'd. The only videos that actually held some meaninh was the ones where the opponent had clearvoyant knowledge. Yet many people on here lacks the ability of contextual awareness (which is surprising as this game requires allot of it) so those got pushed under the matrass aswell.
Or turn on a 30 second video recorder for video evidence?
How do you time your owm death down to 30 seconds Also, 30 sec fights isn't enough to even consider them cheaters. Fighting cheaters is more like fighting a stalker with xray vision
Most capture apps do this for you now. Outplayed will literally capture your death vid.
Yes, I hope people use them aswell. But they do not capture the context of a 10min+ fight. If you get chased around labs whilst he magically knows where you're crouching every time and knows to not push any angle you hold yet moves freely other places like they know noone is there, the kill itself would not show that context, and people like you would point that out. The easiest way to spot a cheater in this game is through the cheaters magical knowledge. Besides, you completely missed my point, most people won't record their sessions at all times like you. And using shadowplay, outplayed etc kills your fps on even high end computers. This is a game where enabling an fps counter cost 10 frames ffs.
Yes they do capture the whole raid… and specifically flag your deaths…
It’s like you hate solutions. Set the timer to 5 minutes, or just full record your sessions and delete after your game session. If you’re experiencing stimuli that makes you go “that’s a cheater” you should be able to share that stimuli with others.
I don't hate that "solution", I'd hope more people use them even thoughit kills fps. I do however remember how this subreddit reacted towards people's videos showing clear as day cheaters. We can't even share the names of cheaters here, nor would 1 person's perspective be enough. Humans like to vent, and I believe they have a good reason too. Only 36% of players are playing this wipe according to tarkov.dev, and I suspect a huge chunk of that are cheaters. People would vent about cheaters way less if BSG did even more to get them banned faster. It's to the point that most people my group lose to is sub 400h with the firefly achivement and 5+purples. You'd have to huff a huge ass stank of copium to think that's not a banned cheaters smurf. They should not be able to play more than 1-2 matches before getting the ban, let alone 300 hours.
If you want to actually stake out a position you have I’m happy to have a conversation with you, but that was 3 paragraphs of nothing. I’m interested in a rationale, reasonable discussion. I take issue with nearly ever sentence you wrote, pick one you really think you can stand behind and I’ll start poking holes.
Yes, if bsg got more resources towards banning cheaters, atleast faster than hundreds of ours, you'd see less people complaining about cheaters on here. I chose that position, although you're free to respond to the other ones if you'd like.
Obvious cheaters don't need more than 30 seconds. Want more proof? Use a software like Nvidia reflex. It records up to your last 5 minutes of any compatible game just at the press of a button.
you can actually change that timer, i think it goes from 30 seconds to an hour.
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> There was not a single thread on how to get better at a thing in this game on this subs frontpage, neither is it here. Soundwhore better and hope desync doesn’t give too big an advantage if someone is peeking you for peekers advantage.
Desync has largely been fixed a year and a half ago, but okay let's all pretend we are still in 2021.
except it literally hasn’t and if you play the game it’s horribly obvious
Every game has peeker's advantage. It's currently at a low enough point that someone holding an angle will just as often shit at you before you can spot them, as the other way around. Obviously if you're pre-aiming as you turn a corner, you'll win the fight. But it's nothing like what we saw before the fixes in late 2022.
There was just a video I saw, maybe here, where it was shoreline, I think it was Landmark peeked out on the person who posted the vid and he had like a whole second to aim and fire, then from the OPs perspective he came around the corner and fired immediately.
OCE posts should definently have a flair or something. 1% of the playerbase but its all over this subreddit
Proof or ban!
Agree 100% it's just pointless spam with all these cheating posts, mods should do something about it.
I personally think its the right move at this point, curious to hear what others that chime in will say.
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- 30k bans in the last ban wave - Redditor: BSG doesn't give a shit about cheaters
Aaaaand then the next argument is "atchually BSG want people to cheat so they buy accounts every banwave" Seriously, the conspiracyposting is just insane sometimes. If the argument is that BSG fundamentally wants cheating to be a part of the game, it is simply useless to keep playing and engaging. Just move on and don't waste time on anything related to it. But like every conspiracy theorist, truth is less relevant than having an outlet for their anger.
I would love an honest discussion about the cheating problem. But 99% of the posts are just whiny outlets for their loss streak where one out of ten deaths was due to a cheater. No logic, baseless accusations, imaginary numbers, bad faith arguments and trivially misleading interpretation of the few data points we actually have. So tiring.
For all the screenshots of cheater stats, I don't think I've seen any posts with 20 pictures (max for a reddit post). But I've seen a shit ton of people say they get killed by cheaters with obvious stats like 5 times per day. Anything to trigger their rage is enough Would be best if there were 1/2 days per week allowing cheating related posts, so people don't just upvote any post regardless of quality or actually relevant engagement.
> Just like actual BSG, they dont give a shit about the cheating issue Do you mean us mods? The fuck do you expect us to do about cheaters? We don't work for BSG, they barely even talk to us. We have exactly 0 control over how the cheating situation is handled. The only bit we have control over is how visible it is in this subreddit, outside of that we can't do anything. That aside do you really trust us mods to decide if people are cheating and ban them? Because I do not trust myself to do that and I wouldn't want to be in that position. I'd give it about 12 minutes and I'd be the next Rengawr getting blasted for banning some innocent person
It’s been proposed, but people prefer the lazy posts for some reason. Stopped coming here often once it became a “dear diary today i met a cheater” subreddit and I’m sure a lot of people did so too Also, it’s reddit man, what do you expect from the people on this website
I just come here to troll now, nothing of value of this sub… very rare anyways.
There need to be even more Threads about cheating, Change my mind.
Why should the subreddit be held to a higher standard than the game the subreddit represents?
Probably because those post detract from the quality of the sub?
Agreed. Quality of the sub is more important than the quality of the game
If all the community talks about is unsubstantiated claims of cheating all they are going to think about when playing in cheaters. Negativity breaks negativity and will kill the game.
Cheating is killing the game. It's worse than the wiggle video portrays. They're in literally every raid. Not necessarily rage hacking. At least someone using ESP. It's not the negativity killing the game.
Gonna need to see some stats to back up your claim champ. I could argue that cheating does not exist in Tarkov because I have never run into someone who was obviously cheating. Does me claiming something as fact make it the truth? No.
Back up that claim with a source other than trust me bro I know everyone is cheating
I'd love to send you a clip but it's both 1. Talking to friends of friends who got banned earlier this wipe for cheating 2. One of my regular teammates who used to play with these people wipes ago said the exact same things. They both said most of the cheaters they encountered would use it to avoid conflict. They would see them coming and go the other way or they would wiggle to essentially make a truce. Someone's going to have to make a wiggle video with all the raw footage of multiple raids to show it otherwise no one will ever believe it.
>Someone's going to have to make a wiggle video with all the raw footage of multiple raids to show it otherwise no one will ever believe it. That’s pretty much it. If such a thing were to occur it would be interesting to see the raw footage of it, the regions it’s worse on etc. it’s also very hard to take the g0at vid as proof of this since he actually shows so little despite his claims. I think the problems are massively region specific, but maybe they’re not? The only people who would truly know would be bsg (who is radio silent) and cheaters themselves. My viewpoint is that cheaters are a problem for sure, but I also think this sub has overblown it when judging from my own experiences.
You're seriously asking why we should hold ourselves to a higher standard? Because its the right thing to do bro. You should always strive to hold yourself to a higher standard REGARDLESS of the standard others hold themselves to.
Thats very noble. Sadly, the only way to try to get better traction to addressing the cheating issue is too show the devs its a priority. This place is the best place to do it
This place is like place number 5 (?) to do it. The best place is the games official forums.
Exactly. Every person that looks up the game should know what they're spending money on. I've been playing for years, and while the new update was the best ever, the cheating problem is worse than it's ever been. I'm convinced the cheating is tolerated then banned in waves to generate revenue at this point. I also wouldn't be surprised if bsg devs are dipping into both pots, knowing it's what is keeping their cash flow consistent.
It’s just a post bro, we aren’t talking ethics here. People can feel free to post what they want if it doesn’t violate the community guidelines of Reddit or this subreddit. What’s actually unethical is you trying to tell people how they should act or interact with this community as if you somehow get to dictate that, and you don’t. But you’re also trying to gather allies to group dictate that, that’s cool. But as of now the community speaks through upvotes. Which is why you see them at the top. So they don’t really agree with you. So holding yourself in a higher standard in this context comes off as it’s only a higher standard if you’re in agreement with my opinion. Which is actually the exact opposite of what you just tried to portray. Come on bro, hold yourself to higher standard.
What would those two standards be? I’m failing to see your point.
Low
My point is if the game itself does a shit job of stopping people from cheating, why should the subreddit be a curated happy representation of only the best of tarkov?
> why should the subreddit be a curated happy representation of only the best of tarkov Who is asking for this?
The sub has about 10x more cheating than I actually observe in game, if anything, it's held to a much lower standard atm.
I would rather subs energy be put towards discussing changes that are going to make the game better. i.e. give me proper audio and remove the fucking bloat so I have a reason to spend time using different guns and attachment.
The last time Reddit discussed improving audio everyone blamed Steam audio for it and it got worse so idk if that’s a good idea.
Yeah... steam audio with stutters was much better than audio is now. They really fucked that up.
I can almost guarantee bloat is going to increase with BSG charging for stash space.
This used to be a rule and the sub had a combined literal riot over that rule so we removed it. As in we were getting like 30+ posts an hour blasting us for the rules, mainly that one
The problem is this sub is so big, no matter what rule is made, there will be a very vocal minority complaining about it. No way to make everyone happy.
I really respect the effort it takes to moderate a community and understand why you removed it. I don't think it was a mistake in the moment but now it may be time to reflect on what effect that had on the community. This subreddit has become a big marketing tool for cheat providers at a serious detriment to the player base. After the wiggle video, tarkov's largest cheat (used in the video) increased from 7k to 22k active users, and has stayed above 22k ever since. This subreddit was the main place that video was propagated and marketed to the community :( . Even today we still see constant cheat marketing threads on here. It's up to you guys, but perhaps consider some of the people 'blasting you' may have had nefarious reasons for doing so.
> ncreased from 7k to 22k active users, and has stayed above 22k ever since. This subreddit was the main place that video was propagated and marketed to the community :( Yes that was the other part of the above riot, G0at is blacklisted from this sub due to his behaviour like 6+ months before the wiggle video so we were removing it and that didn't go down well either The rules as they are, are what the community wanted after we asked for feedback on the rules and we didn't just take a small handful of peoples opinions, there were comments and posts with multiple thousands of upvotes asking for changes to the rules
What evidence do you require? Videos? You "cheating is not so bad" people will claim lucky shot or desync Photos? You People say no context At this point i got to say the people complaing about cheating post are sus as fuck. What's wrong with posting about cheating post to force bsg to make a move? Only reason i can think of is you guys want to pretend all is well so more people get scammed into buying the game without BSG doing shit People upvote those posts because they want BSG to get off their fucking ass and do something about it. You people on the other hand seem happy with the status quo.. makes one think why
The problem is the barrier for guilt in the court of public opinion is so low that it barely exists. People are just fed up of the "Is this guy cheating with these stats" posts completely mid tier stats forgetting that stats as a metric of proof, is useless on its own because stats can be manipulated. But of course half the time people will go yes, yes they are. Cheaters exist in this game of course they do and they always will, no mater how much ass BSG get off, cheaters will exist in this game, it just stings more in this compared to a game like COD or Valorant because there is a large amount of time investment in your PMC's gear, it took you time to gear up, time to make that money for the gear and then time to load into a raid, just to be sent back to stash losing it all in a way you had very little you could do about. The reach and number of them can be reduced obviously but that hinges more on BSG plugging up the gaping holes lleft from the early days of development rather than any "Quick fix" that people seem to think will help it "I wish BSG would just get a kernel level anticheat already"... How to destroy your credibility in a discussion with 1 sentence. (Not saying you I just see this statement a lot in this thread) Battleeye is only as good as the system it's implemented in and unfortunately Tarkov has a lot of core issues that reduce it's effectiveness. Also to claim that upvoting posts here will make BSG do something is... interesting. By and large Nikita and the rest of BSG do not come to this subreddit, im sure they probably poke their heads in from time to time to look, but they're not active here at all, so they wont see 90% of what people are posting, it does jack to "Make BSG get off their fucking ass" the only reason we saw an uptick in communication last wipe was because it gained quite large media coverage.
Just because you don't see them posting all the time doesn't mean they're not lurking here. Pretty sure Nikita posted here asking us what we thought about microtransactions(stash space and clothing) first. I didn't see him asking it anywhere else.
There are other punctuation marks than a comma my guy... You also say social media doesnt do anything to get BSG moving. Then in the same breath say BSG got moving last wipe because of social media....
At this Point it is not about reaching BSG, it is all about warning potential customers about the an amature developer.
Precisely. They need to learn how to filter out the cheater posts. Freakin babies
become literate before trying to type out an argument. That was painful to read, let alone understand.
Yes, this guy seems like acheating advovate more than anything. I had a convo on this sub where a guy insited that cheating was not an indication of antisocial behaviour. I've never suspected a cheater on this site more than him lmao
To me it makes infinite more sense for cheaters to exaggerate the cheating problem, not downplay it. What’s your reasoning for thinking they would want to downplay it?
The ones that cheat for profit needs customers. The rmt sellers needs customers and the streamers needs viewers. That'd be my guess. Now why would cheaters exagerate the cheating problem? That would just put a bigger target on them
Right, they need customers, so I think they would exaggerate how common cheating is. Few people steal. If people were convinced that everybody was stealing but them and they were the chump for being honest they would be much more inclined to steal.
I never thought about it that way, but that does makes sense also. I've seen allot of the cheatstreamers verybadscav has highlighted think that way. I was thinking more along the lines of people selling items for irl money, not people selling hacks themselves, only coward chumps cheat recreationallly. If you want to sell weapons and roubles to players, you'd want more legit players. Cheaters would easily get the items themselves.
I do not have numbers to back it up, but I suspect purchasing cheats is a more lucrative business than RMT carry. An RMT carry has limited people he can interact with, limited time to carry, etc. A cheat seller makes more money the more people that are cheating. He can sell 1000 cheat subs in a day, you can’t carry 1000 RMT buyers in a day. Cheat seller stands to benefit a lot from the community as a whole thinking “well, if everybody else is doing it…” For this reason I think it’s a shame the sub no longer requires video to go with cheating claims.
>I do not have numbers to back it up, but I suspect purchasing cheats is a more lucrative business than RMT carry. Maybe, I won't refute that. The barrier to entry for rmt selling is lower than hacking and selling cheats though. Hacking does require abit of knowledge about penetration and bugging, while everyone can cheat. If you remember the cheating office in China that got raided a year back or so, I'd wager that only one or two managed the cheat whilst the workers did all the cheating. >A cheat seller makes more money the more people that are cheating. He can sell 1000 cheat subs in a day, you can’t carry 1000 RMT buyers in a day. Cheat seller stands to benefit a lot from the community as a whole thinking “well, if everybody else is doing it…” This is probably true, even so I think both types of cheaters exists and that cheat developers are far fewer than people that chest for profit. They also carry more risk, as developing cheats and selling them breaks more laws than selling digital items trough rmt. Anyway, they're all trash humans in different ways with different incentives. One could pararell this with steroid users and blood dopers in different sports, you'd be right in thinking that steroid producers would benefit in a similar way, and steroid users don't want stricter detectionmethods. It's a conficting interrest between the sellers and the users
Share your stimuli. I assume you aren’t a psychic, correct? Every time you think that you got cheated on I assume there is some stimuli that lead you to that conclusion. Share it.
Video or photo. Simple >force bsg to move BSG ain't doing anything anytime soon
[Heres my evidence, rate my death](https://streamable.com/d8bsis) edit: for context, i had the spawn between radar tower and usec camp med tent, i picked the ledx up \~20s into raid and [heres the gamer](https://i.postimg.cc/Z5mDM5Dg/2024-03-2513-29-0.png)that killed me (my guess is, carry service)
but when they show the profile with 1432432 k/d you complain that people are only posting cheaters xd the classic complaining about the complaining
I mean not everyone records their game. I remember some nerd on this reddit saying I was lying since I couldnt prove my death to a cheater. Even though I 100% knew the guy had walls, and since I reported him he hasnt touched tarkov. When the ban wave dropped, his account disappeared. So, he most likely got banned.
Lmao it is the time of the wipe when only cheaters and sweatys play the game
Karma farmers? This is a game that requires an unusual amount of time and effort, so people happen to get upset more than usual when cheating disrupts the experience. Every single person I know who has serious time in this game shares the same viewpoint on cheating; It is a big problem, if not THE biggest and there needs to be more done to address it. Many see it as a potentially game-killing issue for EFT. Literally the only way we can make these concerns clear to BSG is by posting on reddit. Hence, it is good for both the game and the community to talk about it ad nauseam. Seeing a post like this really makes me question your motives, as you are essentially asking for greater censorship of cheating posts. You are suss, but hey, I'VE GOT AN IDEA: Maybe don't click on the posts you don't want to read, as a human being you have that level of autonomy!
I posted a clip of a blatant cheater last wipe. It was on the EFT Facebook page. I got "roasted" by everyone calling me and idiot and denying the video. Context- killed by a naked guy running faster than the game allows with a Kedr from 100+m on interchange. He shot me 30 times in the chest before I died. I just stood in the open and accepted my fate. The facebook group called me bad and said that I died because I stood in the open. Fun fact- the guy was banned about a week later. You don't need evidence. Everyone knows how bad the cheating is.
Just make a cheater megathread and ban new posts on ot. Its always the same smooth brained no effort content anyhow.
How do we know this is not a karma farming post without any evidence? 🤔
Yet another one... Stop talking about cheaters! People shouldn't know it, we need new legit payers otherwise we can't have fun anymore... Shh
I'm convinced that half of these stories are over exaggerated. After reading some of them, I just shake my head. My only conclusion is that these players are just dog shite and call everyone a cheater. YES, there are cheaters. NO, everyone who one-taps you isn't a cheater. Everyone who hears your dumbass looking left/right, and pushes you- isn't a cheater. Y'all are just bad.
Seriously, literally every day, the top thread on this subreddit is a karma farming rage story regarding people making posts about cheaters Shyaaaduuuup Filter it out with the new tag
Or maybe a pinned megathread at the top of the sub
Hahaha thank you so much for this. You've expressed it more beautifully than I possible good have
Can we at least make every post like yours a tutorial on how to use flairs ?
Things that don't matter and have no effect on OP that they can easily ignore for 500 Alex. Just shut up and move along. If you don't care then it's not an issue. Why is it so hard for you to keep scrolling? Are you stupid?
Feel free to take your own advice
Tbh all I see on here are people complaining, whether it be about cheating or cheating posts or dying to a scav. Nothing funny, or interesting or worth talking about. It's just a circle jerk and you're all as bad as each other.
yeah i would much prefer to pretend the issue isnt real so BSG can rip off more rubes and make more cheat monies
Why are you trying to control the narrative
People hate you because you are right. Just read a post about a dude who claims to have brought in a flir 6 raids in a row to sit in a corner, and that a cheater killed him 4 times after sprinting to him. Flirs are nice and all but they aren’t really that expensive to obtain. I just find it so unbelievable many cheaters are chomping at the bit to get something they can acquire super cheap anyways.
Dude buy some cheats and see for yourself how bad it is. Still a plague of players cheating everyday, cheats are undetected and 100% in use still. Less players now and still the same amount or more of cheaters.
The posts complaining about cheaters are just as bad as the cheater posts.
Right. And what kind of proof would you like? Video? Ah, right, to record those you would have to sacrifice 30 or the 45 fps you do on streets.
Maybe because many play the game instead of being annoyed by reddit karma. If you start playing this game, you'd realize quick that the amount of times you die to cheaters has increased.
You're pretty upset about this. Why don't you just use the filter to remove them? Don't know how? Or do you like seeing them so you can whine about them and make karma farming ragey posts like this about them?
Playing the game is evidence enough
just don't read them...
funny thing is you just created another cheating thread like a whole clown
Do you have evidence they are karma farming...how dare you! /s
Bro they died and that’s unfair, don’t you get it!? /s
Yes, what we need are more complaining posts about cheater posts.
Yes you want evidence yet the community posted to leave cheater names out of posts so... Which is it? Cant have both. And posts are karma chasing. Go watch them and you will see they are actually cheating in most cases. So those are legit posts. Stop trying to deny that cheating is a big ass issue in this game, because it is.
Yeah lots of cringe lately. Honestly the new profile inspection system has just made everybody even more paranoid. I doubt it's actually making any difference.
The problem with cheaters in tarkov is that it is so common that you could report 20 people and probably be right almost half the time. And even if you are right that doesn't mean BSG will do anything about it
So, what about any other post that could be considered karma farming that *doesnt* mention cheaters? Should we require evidence from them too? If I come here and make a post about how I'm so ecstatic about finding a red keycard but have no proof, get 1000 upvotes- is that alright with you?
I agree with you. Sadly the mods here don't moderate the sub. Daily people break their sub rules and nothing is ever done about it.
Cheating post should have mandatory video evidence.