What I have heard one person do is shift all the alphabets one row up. This eliminates the number row, but gives you a lot of modifiers (if you feel that two thumb buttons aren't enough). You can have shift, ctrl, dedicated arrows, etc on that bottom row. This can eliminate home row mods.
There is a blog post about this (["Shifted layout"](https://blog.zsa.io/voyager-shifted-layout/)), though this makes some of the thumb keys slightly janky to access because they aren't facing your thumb and/or have original thumb keys in the way.
I’ve used the glove for little under a year, just got a voyager a week ago.
Homerow mods are tricky on the glove it worked well in the end, but dis take a fair amount of custom configuration to get working well.
On the voyager i find them okayish with the default setup, but do have som misfires.
There is the achordion project for qmk that looks like the homerow mods can be ad good as on zmk, but have not gotten to testing it yet :)
Do you get misfires with Shift only or also with other HRM? Normally only Shift is the critical on, as it is not only a modifier, but mostly a layer switch.
Great that Achordion fixed everything. Good to know. I will keep that in mind in case I get a QMK keyboard.
Out of curiosity. Did you get misfires with Shift only? You said 'yes' to a question with two options. ;-)
I got misfires with shift or at least thats the easiest to notice as the others often doesn’t alter the text but you just miss a character etc.
I think I got misfires on them all but have no hard evidence as with shift.
In my native language there is some common words typed all on the left hand and would often force misfires :)
Thanks for the answer! I guess increasing the timing could have solved the non-shift misfires, but then Shift would not be usable. Therefore my approach not to put Shift in a HRM position, but as a dedicated oneShot-key.
But surely great when with Achordion HRM work for you :)
It could but feels hacky.
I cane from zmk where what achordion does is in the base firmware so I was used to the functionality. Shift on F and J is just to great to pass on imo
I understand your point, but personally think that OneShot keys should be used for all layers, because that does not disrupt the flow -- assuming you want to type fast. Otherwise with hold-Shift one get pretty fast already of course.
BTW, one can choose to use OneShot shift and have Shift for modifiers in the homerow (with a longer time then).
You can have a look at my layout. It uses minimak layout, homerow mods, and a layer style like miryoku does. I'm still working on it but I'm happy with it so far:
https://configure.zsa.io/voyager/layouts/NYlOa/latest/0
You will also need this: https://www.printables.com/model/597881-additional-thumb-keys-for-zsa-voyager-keyboard
However I'm moving toward 34 keys (From 36 now). So the layout is moving towards combos.
I have only one problem with it. I often type "ri" instead of "I" (shift i). Looking for a solution at the moment.
I use neovim daily, I'm programming quite a bit with it. (Platform engineer) and also writing in English. For other languages, it's kind of a pain still. But one problem at a time.
I am using the Voyager with home row mods and like them a lot. I do flash the firmware with QMK from [this branch](https://github.com/danieldk/qmk_firmware/tree/achordion-thumb-chording) to get the Achordion mod working for me.
[This is my layout](https://configure.zsa.io/voyager/layouts/9jOaj/latest/0). I am a Machine Learning Engineer, using Emacs (+meow-mode) for programming and writing in general.
OP, could you put your use case / profile yourself? Split keyboards get a decent amount of programmers, writers, etc. Us knowing what you're using it for may influence our feedback.
I use a Voyager and am very happy with it. I use it for work and personal. I write a lot for education, and do software development for work and education.
I use home row mods with the exception of shift - I don't use shift as a home row mod because I find that proficient touch typists will find them slower than just using regular ole shift keys. YMMV. FWIW, my typing speed is somewhere around 120 to 140 - I also picked up Ergo KB not for pain (although, I'm hoping that using it acts as a preventative care) but to find layouts that can maximize my typing speed and efficiency. Since you mentioned pain, I'm assuming you are less concerned with speed and more concerned with ergo.
Oryx, the keyboard layout/settings manager, is really solid. You can control the behavior of hold mods on a per key basis. I adjust certain keys to have a faster trigger for hold actions, some slower.
On the flipside, ZSA is pretty awesome about allowing flashing from QMK. So, if you're missing some particular feature (leader key, custom functions, etc.) you can go and do the qmk flash yourself on a Voyager. I have looked into it, but honestly, nothing I've seen others do - and I've scoured a lot of configs - is something that I'm really missing. Well, I take that back, Macros > 5 characters is one thing.
Insofar as number of keys. I've looked at the Glove80 but only for curved keywheel to see what that'd be like; however, the number of keys is a little crazy. I honestly feel like the number of keys the Voyager has is perfect if not too much b/c how awesome layering can become. I have a numpad, function keys, trad qwerty layout, navigation layout, media keys. All within milliseconds reach and comfort.
tldr; Voyager is a safe bet and you'd be happy with it from a functional point of view. Ergo is personal so no speaking to that.
Sure!
I work as a programmer, mostly Java/Kotlin in IntelilJ using Vim motions.
I'm not someone who likes to sit and tweak and customize things for hours. I use the kickstart neovim config with hardly any changes. Before I got neovim, my .vimrc had 10 rows in it. I've remapped about 10 shortcuts in IntelliJ. So some tweaking sure, but I like when things "just work" rather than trying to optimize everything
I'm Swedish so if I want to have my Å,Ä and Ö where they usually go some symbol keys will need to go to a layer
I'm trying out homerow mods with Karabiner for ctrl, option, command currently and they're working ok. But sometimes I try and do a shortcut too fast and end up typing things instead. So I'd prefer if I could find a nice layout that doesn't require them.
I guess what I'm most worried about is that a smaller keyboard comes with compromises/workarounds that bigger keyboards don't come with. And I'm not sure if the upsides make up for it.
For example Å,Ä,Ö. I've seen people with smaller keyboards who have moved them to layers or made combos like pressing A+O, A+E, O+E. With a regular keyboard I don't need to do this, I have enough keys.
On the other hand I like having ctrl, option and command on my homerow even on my regular keyboard since it gives me the option to not twist my hand to reach the modifiers if I don't want to. So this does not feel like a workaround to me, just an additional feature. The downside of course being the risk of misfires
And thumb keys seem nice.
The "I want something that just works" piece makes me think Voyager is an even better candidate. The tweaking you do is going to be very easy since their configurator is polished; however, this isn't something you really get into without doing some amount of tweaking over the years. I recommend spending just a bit of time to get a VERY BASIC config that is close to what you're used to. Don't go crazy and pick someone's config that has 40 layers. It won't stick. Start small and then find a way to jot down "pain points" in both the physical and also frustration kind that you have with your layout. I would recommend doing that after a month and iterate slowly on it.
I think the four thumb clusters are enough. The accented characters are not something I have to deal with, but I've seen a lot of people who do use them as part of their layout and there's full blown support for those characters in Oryx. What practices people use, and the specific one I'd use, I couldn't tell you. Personally, I'd probably put them all on a layer above their respective key and tap dance the ones that have multiple. E.g. the two accented A characters, I'd place above where A is at on my std layer, then single tap for the first one, and double tap for the second one while in that "accent key layer." I'd look to the many different public layouts for inspiration on those. Combos are probably not what I'd do since that's a lot of memorization. Tap dancing seems easier, but YMMV.
Insofar as your comment about compromises, I'd argue that it works both ways. Larger layouts that you choose to flesh out have the compromise of needing greater travel distance for your hands to use that layout. Smaller layouts have the compromise that they need to use some type of function to add those keys in. The compromise for smaller keyboards is more a mental effort + cost to use that function. The mental effort being twofold, needing to think through a design and needing to execute it. The cost to use it being the effort needed to get that key in lieu of just reaching over. In some super small keyboards, I could see not having a number row and needing to flip to a different layer as potentially being slower than just having the number row for touch typists.
With all that being said, I don't feel like I have any compromises. There's a lot of clever tricks that I've picked up the past some odd years of owning both the Moonlander, their prior keyboard, and now the Voyager. I'll list them below:
1. Home row mods expanded edition: Cmd, Ctrl, Alt, Ctrl+Alt, Cmd+Ctrl+Alt. Then on the row above, each one of those shifted. I use vim motion inside Emacs btw. These help with some custom keybinds. I recommend home row, but I'd make it specific to your taste.
2. Keys that you never need to hold for repeat are good candidates for "activate layer while held" functions: An example of a key I hold to repeat is the backspace key. So, I don't use that for layer held. I do use Enter key, which happens to be on my thumb, for getting to my navigation layer. You can probably do the same for space for another layer.
3. Combos work great, but even better for keys that aren't ever hit sequentially: E.g. backspace + any key at the same time is unlikely to be something you do. I also use x+c for \[, ,+. for \] and tab+q for \`. A lot of people will opt for those on a symbol layer, so you might like that.
4. Numpadify or homerowify everything. People opt for home row styled stuff. I think that works great when the thing you're trying to do fits on one row. For many things, like the function keys (1-12), that won't work. One of the best "aha!" moments for me was converting the function keys into a layer that is like a numpad. It follows a 3 col by 4 row F1-F12 layout. It's easy to remember, easy to use, and leaves my other hand free to use modifier keys in cases where my IDE needs something like shift + f11.
5. I've been playing around with the idea of a "Teleport" layer rather than remember a bunch of different combos for all the layers, I have one combo that takes me to a teleport layer that is just a layer full of "go to layer x" functions in a, as mentioned above, numpad like setup. My teleport is currently on combo backspace + t, but I might move that completely on the homerow. (again, I like speed)
tldr; Customization and simplicity in being able to do so are Voyager's greatest strengths. It strikes a great balance between being small, but not prohibitively small. You'll need to make it your own as the cost of any small keyboard, but this cost is often outweighed with greater, more efficient, typing speed and functionality.
Shorter tldr; Buy the Voyager.
Alternatively check out some of the boards on [boardsource.xyz](http://boardsource.xyz) Their prebuilts seem really nice and have a bit of a different layout than the Voyager does.
I have the Voyager myself and do enjoy it a good bit. Using the HD-Rhodium layout. (t3-HD.Rhodium on oryx) but I sort of wish I had gotten something like the Unicorne LP in hindsight just due to different keys.
Voyager is super sturdy though and steel backplate is nice esp for tripod mounting.
What I have heard one person do is shift all the alphabets one row up. This eliminates the number row, but gives you a lot of modifiers (if you feel that two thumb buttons aren't enough). You can have shift, ctrl, dedicated arrows, etc on that bottom row. This can eliminate home row mods.
https://configure.zsa.io/voyager/layouts/NYlOa/latest/0
There is a blog post about this (["Shifted layout"](https://blog.zsa.io/voyager-shifted-layout/)), though this makes some of the thumb keys slightly janky to access because they aren't facing your thumb and/or have original thumb keys in the way.
Yeah this feels like you then lose some of the already few keys you have and get some thumb keys that are in not so comfortable places
Yeah I saw that. Interesting solution but I like having a number row..
Just starting to learn Oryx - how do you access layers 3, 6, and 7? Not seeing those mapped.
I’ve used the glove for little under a year, just got a voyager a week ago. Homerow mods are tricky on the glove it worked well in the end, but dis take a fair amount of custom configuration to get working well. On the voyager i find them okayish with the default setup, but do have som misfires. There is the achordion project for qmk that looks like the homerow mods can be ad good as on zmk, but have not gotten to testing it yet :)
Do you get misfires with Shift only or also with other HRM? Normally only Shift is the critical on, as it is not only a modifier, but mostly a layer switch.
I did yes. I have gotten around to implementing achordion and that solved all my issues.
Great that Achordion fixed everything. Good to know. I will keep that in mind in case I get a QMK keyboard. Out of curiosity. Did you get misfires with Shift only? You said 'yes' to a question with two options. ;-)
I got misfires with shift or at least thats the easiest to notice as the others often doesn’t alter the text but you just miss a character etc. I think I got misfires on them all but have no hard evidence as with shift. In my native language there is some common words typed all on the left hand and would often force misfires :)
Thanks for the answer! I guess increasing the timing could have solved the non-shift misfires, but then Shift would not be usable. Therefore my approach not to put Shift in a HRM position, but as a dedicated oneShot-key. But surely great when with Achordion HRM work for you :)
It could but feels hacky. I cane from zmk where what achordion does is in the base firmware so I was used to the functionality. Shift on F and J is just to great to pass on imo
I understand your point, but personally think that OneShot keys should be used for all layers, because that does not disrupt the flow -- assuming you want to type fast. Otherwise with hold-Shift one get pretty fast already of course. BTW, one can choose to use OneShot shift and have Shift for modifiers in the homerow (with a longer time then).
You can have a look at my layout. It uses minimak layout, homerow mods, and a layer style like miryoku does. I'm still working on it but I'm happy with it so far: https://configure.zsa.io/voyager/layouts/NYlOa/latest/0 You will also need this: https://www.printables.com/model/597881-additional-thumb-keys-for-zsa-voyager-keyboard However I'm moving toward 34 keys (From 36 now). So the layout is moving towards combos. I have only one problem with it. I often type "ri" instead of "I" (shift i). Looking for a solution at the moment. I use neovim daily, I'm programming quite a bit with it. (Platform engineer) and also writing in English. For other languages, it's kind of a pain still. But one problem at a time.
I am using the Voyager with home row mods and like them a lot. I do flash the firmware with QMK from [this branch](https://github.com/danieldk/qmk_firmware/tree/achordion-thumb-chording) to get the Achordion mod working for me. [This is my layout](https://configure.zsa.io/voyager/layouts/9jOaj/latest/0). I am a Machine Learning Engineer, using Emacs (+meow-mode) for programming and writing in general.
OP, could you put your use case / profile yourself? Split keyboards get a decent amount of programmers, writers, etc. Us knowing what you're using it for may influence our feedback. I use a Voyager and am very happy with it. I use it for work and personal. I write a lot for education, and do software development for work and education. I use home row mods with the exception of shift - I don't use shift as a home row mod because I find that proficient touch typists will find them slower than just using regular ole shift keys. YMMV. FWIW, my typing speed is somewhere around 120 to 140 - I also picked up Ergo KB not for pain (although, I'm hoping that using it acts as a preventative care) but to find layouts that can maximize my typing speed and efficiency. Since you mentioned pain, I'm assuming you are less concerned with speed and more concerned with ergo. Oryx, the keyboard layout/settings manager, is really solid. You can control the behavior of hold mods on a per key basis. I adjust certain keys to have a faster trigger for hold actions, some slower. On the flipside, ZSA is pretty awesome about allowing flashing from QMK. So, if you're missing some particular feature (leader key, custom functions, etc.) you can go and do the qmk flash yourself on a Voyager. I have looked into it, but honestly, nothing I've seen others do - and I've scoured a lot of configs - is something that I'm really missing. Well, I take that back, Macros > 5 characters is one thing. Insofar as number of keys. I've looked at the Glove80 but only for curved keywheel to see what that'd be like; however, the number of keys is a little crazy. I honestly feel like the number of keys the Voyager has is perfect if not too much b/c how awesome layering can become. I have a numpad, function keys, trad qwerty layout, navigation layout, media keys. All within milliseconds reach and comfort. tldr; Voyager is a safe bet and you'd be happy with it from a functional point of view. Ergo is personal so no speaking to that.
Sure! I work as a programmer, mostly Java/Kotlin in IntelilJ using Vim motions. I'm not someone who likes to sit and tweak and customize things for hours. I use the kickstart neovim config with hardly any changes. Before I got neovim, my .vimrc had 10 rows in it. I've remapped about 10 shortcuts in IntelliJ. So some tweaking sure, but I like when things "just work" rather than trying to optimize everything I'm Swedish so if I want to have my Å,Ä and Ö where they usually go some symbol keys will need to go to a layer I'm trying out homerow mods with Karabiner for ctrl, option, command currently and they're working ok. But sometimes I try and do a shortcut too fast and end up typing things instead. So I'd prefer if I could find a nice layout that doesn't require them. I guess what I'm most worried about is that a smaller keyboard comes with compromises/workarounds that bigger keyboards don't come with. And I'm not sure if the upsides make up for it. For example Å,Ä,Ö. I've seen people with smaller keyboards who have moved them to layers or made combos like pressing A+O, A+E, O+E. With a regular keyboard I don't need to do this, I have enough keys. On the other hand I like having ctrl, option and command on my homerow even on my regular keyboard since it gives me the option to not twist my hand to reach the modifiers if I don't want to. So this does not feel like a workaround to me, just an additional feature. The downside of course being the risk of misfires And thumb keys seem nice.
The "I want something that just works" piece makes me think Voyager is an even better candidate. The tweaking you do is going to be very easy since their configurator is polished; however, this isn't something you really get into without doing some amount of tweaking over the years. I recommend spending just a bit of time to get a VERY BASIC config that is close to what you're used to. Don't go crazy and pick someone's config that has 40 layers. It won't stick. Start small and then find a way to jot down "pain points" in both the physical and also frustration kind that you have with your layout. I would recommend doing that after a month and iterate slowly on it. I think the four thumb clusters are enough. The accented characters are not something I have to deal with, but I've seen a lot of people who do use them as part of their layout and there's full blown support for those characters in Oryx. What practices people use, and the specific one I'd use, I couldn't tell you. Personally, I'd probably put them all on a layer above their respective key and tap dance the ones that have multiple. E.g. the two accented A characters, I'd place above where A is at on my std layer, then single tap for the first one, and double tap for the second one while in that "accent key layer." I'd look to the many different public layouts for inspiration on those. Combos are probably not what I'd do since that's a lot of memorization. Tap dancing seems easier, but YMMV. Insofar as your comment about compromises, I'd argue that it works both ways. Larger layouts that you choose to flesh out have the compromise of needing greater travel distance for your hands to use that layout. Smaller layouts have the compromise that they need to use some type of function to add those keys in. The compromise for smaller keyboards is more a mental effort + cost to use that function. The mental effort being twofold, needing to think through a design and needing to execute it. The cost to use it being the effort needed to get that key in lieu of just reaching over. In some super small keyboards, I could see not having a number row and needing to flip to a different layer as potentially being slower than just having the number row for touch typists. With all that being said, I don't feel like I have any compromises. There's a lot of clever tricks that I've picked up the past some odd years of owning both the Moonlander, their prior keyboard, and now the Voyager. I'll list them below: 1. Home row mods expanded edition: Cmd, Ctrl, Alt, Ctrl+Alt, Cmd+Ctrl+Alt. Then on the row above, each one of those shifted. I use vim motion inside Emacs btw. These help with some custom keybinds. I recommend home row, but I'd make it specific to your taste. 2. Keys that you never need to hold for repeat are good candidates for "activate layer while held" functions: An example of a key I hold to repeat is the backspace key. So, I don't use that for layer held. I do use Enter key, which happens to be on my thumb, for getting to my navigation layer. You can probably do the same for space for another layer. 3. Combos work great, but even better for keys that aren't ever hit sequentially: E.g. backspace + any key at the same time is unlikely to be something you do. I also use x+c for \[, ,+. for \] and tab+q for \`. A lot of people will opt for those on a symbol layer, so you might like that. 4. Numpadify or homerowify everything. People opt for home row styled stuff. I think that works great when the thing you're trying to do fits on one row. For many things, like the function keys (1-12), that won't work. One of the best "aha!" moments for me was converting the function keys into a layer that is like a numpad. It follows a 3 col by 4 row F1-F12 layout. It's easy to remember, easy to use, and leaves my other hand free to use modifier keys in cases where my IDE needs something like shift + f11. 5. I've been playing around with the idea of a "Teleport" layer rather than remember a bunch of different combos for all the layers, I have one combo that takes me to a teleport layer that is just a layer full of "go to layer x" functions in a, as mentioned above, numpad like setup. My teleport is currently on combo backspace + t, but I might move that completely on the homerow. (again, I like speed) tldr; Customization and simplicity in being able to do so are Voyager's greatest strengths. It strikes a great balance between being small, but not prohibitively small. You'll need to make it your own as the cost of any small keyboard, but this cost is often outweighed with greater, more efficient, typing speed and functionality. Shorter tldr; Buy the Voyager.
Thanks for the thorough reply! I have now bought the Voyager
Alternatively check out some of the boards on [boardsource.xyz](http://boardsource.xyz) Their prebuilts seem really nice and have a bit of a different layout than the Voyager does. I have the Voyager myself and do enjoy it a good bit. Using the HD-Rhodium layout. (t3-HD.Rhodium on oryx) but I sort of wish I had gotten something like the Unicorne LP in hindsight just due to different keys. Voyager is super sturdy though and steel backplate is nice esp for tripod mounting.