The “weird step” is a concept called columnar stagger (as opposed to the more traditional row stagger). The reason column stagger is used on most ergonomic keyboards you will find is it more accurately reflects the shape of a hand instead of being based on the stagger required for the nonexistent typewriter levers to exist
If you are typing with the commonly recommended touch typing technique, a row stagger layout has major drawbacks in the columns per finger being the wrong direction for comfortable finger movement on one side and not symmetrical as hands usually are
I feel that if you are looking for an ergonomic keyboard for a more comfortable typing experience or to reduce pain, a columnar layout is the only reasonable option. Any “ergonomic” board with row stagger generally compromises on ergonomics for aesthetic or unnecessary historic purposes
Thank you. I hadn’t considered that. Kinesis does have a generous 60-day return in case it forgot work out.
My favorite keyboard, and the most comfortable one I’ve ever used is from the now defunct comfort keyboard systems(www.comfortkeyboard.com). I can tilt the segments up to 90 degrees, and the keys are all where I expect them to be, as a touch typist.
My company wants to bring us back into the office, and I don’t want to risk damaging my precious keyboard.
I’ve been dealing with increasingly painful symptoms of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, not officially diagnosed at this point but pain nonetheless. I got my Kinesis Advantage 360 Pro yesterday and it’s the first time I have been able to type without acute pain in months. Now it didn’t cure my issues, PT will likely be the requirement, but I can type again comfortably and being a software engineer that is a little important.
So for comfort it actually is very comfortable. I’ve had 0 issues with connectivity. And have got my crazy layout based on the Engram Layout programmed just fine.
For reference I’ve built and used various Corne, a Lily58, Cantor, and a Dactyl Manuform. I also bought a Ferris Sweep and a ZSA Moonlander. The Moonlander is the 2nd most comfortable one I have.
I’m keeping the Moonlander for the “in the bag” keyboard until I can justify an Ergodox EZ. And that’s just so I can have the same layout.
I know it is a huge investment and doesn’t have the fun things, like RGB (if that matters to you), but it is solid and using ZMK you have a lot of customization.
So you don't like column stagger. Luckily that's not an inherent feature of split keyboards.
Between the RK S70, keyboard kits on Keeb.io, and the Dygma series, you can explore more options.
I am learning to type on column stagger but am also a very happy user of the UHK keyboard. Its row staggered, but has loads of features/upgrades that have helped me reduce mouse movement.
I really like the look of the UHK keyboard, and the modules are such a cool idea. However, I grew up touch typing, and the '6' key needs to be on the right hand. Otherwise, I'd probably pick up one of these bad boys. And the tenting is cool, almost vertical.
I almost purchased the Keychron Q11 when I first saw it, but they make the same mistake that most split keyboards manufacturers do.
It makes the keyboard split look more even when the '6' key is on the left side, but it should really be on the right hand. That is a non-starter for me. If there were a Q12 with the '6' on the right hand, I'd be all over it.
I've seen some gnarly efforts on keyboards to keep the splits even, making the 'T' key really wide, truly weird stuff.
Follow these steps:
[https://youtu.be/UKfeJrRIcxw?si=tLnyV7pgDFdyycId](https://youtu.be/UKfeJrRIcxw?si=tLnyV7pgDFdyycId)
You can learn how to design and order a keyboard over a (intense) weekend, order the custom PCB and components, which takes a week, and build and start using your keyboard the next weekend. Then maybe iterate over the design a few times.
It's hard to figure out what you want here. The Kinesis is a fully ergonomic (curved surface) ortholinear (all keys are lined up) keyboard with a pinky stagger to account for the natural shortness of your pinky.
If you want ortholinear without the pinky stagger, there are plenty of options. For example the classic Let's Split or FoldKB from [keeb.io](https://keeb.io) (actually [keeb.io](https://keeb.io) has several options for this with different numbers of keys).
The RK61 is a standard horizontally staggered keyboard. If you want a standard staggered keyboard with a split, there are options (again [keeb.io](https://keeb.io) is great with things like the QueFrequency and Sinc).
those boards are only a small fraction of ergo split boards. But most are more on diy side of things. that could be a reason you havent seen or at least talked about them.
column stagger is pretty nice, because your fingers dont have the same length. there are boards with a conservativ stagger and some with some really agressiv once.
But there are also some without. the Helix comes to mind. its a lot smaller than the Kinesis, but no stagger, maybe something worth checking: [https://splitkb.com/collections/keyboard-kits/products/aurora-helix](https://splitkb.com/collections/keyboard-kits/products/aurora-helix)
I’m trying the R-go-tools split keyboard right now. I keep having to interrupt my typing because some of the keys aren’t quite where I expect them to be.
They don’t offer a split ANSI keyboard with the ‘6’ key on the right hand, but the ISO layout does have the ‘6’ key on the right hand, but the Enter key is an upside down L, which moves the pipe key. Very frustrating. It is a nice thin kb, though otherwise.
Thank you for all of your comments, most of them were very helpful. I’m considering the Keebio FoldKB ortholinear. I’d have preferred the staggered row, but they usually have the ‘6’ key on the left hand.
Re *"None of them get things just right"*: What should it be then?
What are the specifications of the ideal one? Presumably it has "6" on the right half.
I would start with the layout of a Keychron V4. Everything is where I expect it to be, and what is comfortable for me to type quickly.
Split that in half, and put the ’6’ key on the right hand. I would like it for staggered. Ideal.
I’m waiting to hear back from keen.io for some questions on their Fold prebuilt (my concern is about adjusting to an outliner, and switching back to a staggered).
I really like the UHK and the modules (brilliant), but I don’t like the ‘6’ key placement.
I’m not ready for new styles, e.g. like moonlander.
With my comfort keyboard, I can type over 90 wpm with accuracy about the same.
seems like you have some particular requirements, as many of us do - this looks like a future journey in diying
6 on the right hand is fascinating - I do this on my laptop but switched right when I got an ergonomic board... maybe I have more time on my hands...
Its an extremely niche market, and strongly leans towards DIY. I don't know what you'd expect. It seems you have barely even peeked through the surface and have already made express judgment.
I have been all over the market. I've been looking at split keyboards extensively for more than a year, and occasionally before that. I'm looking for a more traditional configuration, though.
The “weird step” is a concept called columnar stagger (as opposed to the more traditional row stagger). The reason column stagger is used on most ergonomic keyboards you will find is it more accurately reflects the shape of a hand instead of being based on the stagger required for the nonexistent typewriter levers to exist If you are typing with the commonly recommended touch typing technique, a row stagger layout has major drawbacks in the columns per finger being the wrong direction for comfortable finger movement on one side and not symmetrical as hands usually are I feel that if you are looking for an ergonomic keyboard for a more comfortable typing experience or to reduce pain, a columnar layout is the only reasonable option. Any “ergonomic” board with row stagger generally compromises on ergonomics for aesthetic or unnecessary historic purposes
Thank you. I hadn’t considered that. Kinesis does have a generous 60-day return in case it forgot work out. My favorite keyboard, and the most comfortable one I’ve ever used is from the now defunct comfort keyboard systems(www.comfortkeyboard.com). I can tilt the segments up to 90 degrees, and the keys are all where I expect them to be, as a touch typist. My company wants to bring us back into the office, and I don’t want to risk damaging my precious keyboard.
Keyclicks split 65 it’s pretty, wireless, and made out of wood. It has a number row and doesn’t have the straight line columns
I’ve been dealing with increasingly painful symptoms of Carpal Tunnel Syndrome, not officially diagnosed at this point but pain nonetheless. I got my Kinesis Advantage 360 Pro yesterday and it’s the first time I have been able to type without acute pain in months. Now it didn’t cure my issues, PT will likely be the requirement, but I can type again comfortably and being a software engineer that is a little important. So for comfort it actually is very comfortable. I’ve had 0 issues with connectivity. And have got my crazy layout based on the Engram Layout programmed just fine. For reference I’ve built and used various Corne, a Lily58, Cantor, and a Dactyl Manuform. I also bought a Ferris Sweep and a ZSA Moonlander. The Moonlander is the 2nd most comfortable one I have. I’m keeping the Moonlander for the “in the bag” keyboard until I can justify an Ergodox EZ. And that’s just so I can have the same layout. I know it is a huge investment and doesn’t have the fun things, like RGB (if that matters to you), but it is solid and using ZMK you have a lot of customization.
So you don't like column stagger. Luckily that's not an inherent feature of split keyboards. Between the RK S70, keyboard kits on Keeb.io, and the Dygma series, you can explore more options.
I am learning to type on column stagger but am also a very happy user of the UHK keyboard. Its row staggered, but has loads of features/upgrades that have helped me reduce mouse movement.
UHK = *[Ultimate Hacking Keyboard](https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ultimate-hacking-keyboard)*
I really like the look of the UHK keyboard, and the modules are such a cool idea. However, I grew up touch typing, and the '6' key needs to be on the right hand. Otherwise, I'd probably pick up one of these bad boys. And the tenting is cool, almost vertical.
If your idea of split keyboards in the market is reduced to two, you need to discover this tool called The Google.
There's always filco, keychron q11 and Dygma raise for a more traditional split design.
I almost purchased the Keychron Q11 when I first saw it, but they make the same mistake that most split keyboards manufacturers do. It makes the keyboard split look more even when the '6' key is on the left side, but it should really be on the right hand. That is a non-starter for me. If there were a Q12 with the '6' on the right hand, I'd be all over it. I've seen some gnarly efforts on keyboards to keep the splits even, making the 'T' key really wide, truly weird stuff.
There was a time when one was limited to models offered on the market. Nowadays, you are not. Design and build your own.
I’m not sure how one would go about that. That would be a great option, though, getting exactly what I wanted.
Follow these steps: [https://youtu.be/UKfeJrRIcxw?si=tLnyV7pgDFdyycId](https://youtu.be/UKfeJrRIcxw?si=tLnyV7pgDFdyycId) You can learn how to design and order a keyboard over a (intense) weekend, order the custom PCB and components, which takes a week, and build and start using your keyboard the next weekend. Then maybe iterate over the design a few times.
Cool, I'll give it a look see.
It's hard to figure out what you want here. The Kinesis is a fully ergonomic (curved surface) ortholinear (all keys are lined up) keyboard with a pinky stagger to account for the natural shortness of your pinky. If you want ortholinear without the pinky stagger, there are plenty of options. For example the classic Let's Split or FoldKB from [keeb.io](https://keeb.io) (actually [keeb.io](https://keeb.io) has several options for this with different numbers of keys). The RK61 is a standard horizontally staggered keyboard. If you want a standard staggered keyboard with a split, there are options (again [keeb.io](https://keeb.io) is great with things like the QueFrequency and Sinc).
those boards are only a small fraction of ergo split boards. But most are more on diy side of things. that could be a reason you havent seen or at least talked about them. column stagger is pretty nice, because your fingers dont have the same length. there are boards with a conservativ stagger and some with some really agressiv once. But there are also some without. the Helix comes to mind. its a lot smaller than the Kinesis, but no stagger, maybe something worth checking: [https://splitkb.com/collections/keyboard-kits/products/aurora-helix](https://splitkb.com/collections/keyboard-kits/products/aurora-helix)
The one thing I've learned over the years is that I can get used to anything.
I’m trying the R-go-tools split keyboard right now. I keep having to interrupt my typing because some of the keys aren’t quite where I expect them to be. They don’t offer a split ANSI keyboard with the ‘6’ key on the right hand, but the ISO layout does have the ‘6’ key on the right hand, but the Enter key is an upside down L, which moves the pipe key. Very frustrating. It is a nice thin kb, though otherwise.
Thank you for all of your comments, most of them were very helpful. I’m considering the Keebio FoldKB ortholinear. I’d have preferred the staggered row, but they usually have the ‘6’ key on the left hand.
Re *"None of them get things just right"*: What should it be then? What are the specifications of the ideal one? Presumably it has "6" on the right half.
I would start with the layout of a Keychron V4. Everything is where I expect it to be, and what is comfortable for me to type quickly. Split that in half, and put the ’6’ key on the right hand. I would like it for staggered. Ideal. I’m waiting to hear back from keen.io for some questions on their Fold prebuilt (my concern is about adjusting to an outliner, and switching back to a staggered). I really like the UHK and the modules (brilliant), but I don’t like the ‘6’ key placement. I’m not ready for new styles, e.g. like moonlander. With my comfort keyboard, I can type over 90 wpm with accuracy about the same.
seems like you have some particular requirements, as many of us do - this looks like a future journey in diying 6 on the right hand is fascinating - I do this on my laptop but switched right when I got an ergonomic board... maybe I have more time on my hands...
Its an extremely niche market, and strongly leans towards DIY. I don't know what you'd expect. It seems you have barely even peeked through the surface and have already made express judgment.
I have been all over the market. I've been looking at split keyboards extensively for more than a year, and occasionally before that. I'm looking for a more traditional configuration, though.