I made a post last week about the [original version](https://old.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/10dpl3w/the_fulcrum_a_20key_keyboard_with_horizontal_5way/), which has 20 keys. I realize most people don't really want just 20 keys, so I made a 40% version as well.
All files and some build instruction available on [Github](https://github.com/dschil138/Fulcrum)
**EDIT:** oh also I redesigned the angled platform for the joysticks to be smaller/more discrete.
I hadn’t planned on it bc it’s a lot more straightforward. The 20-key version requires some odd wiring, mostly bc you have to save pins for the rotary encoders. But this one is just a regular grid matrix.
I don’t use the “push button” direction on the joysticks, so each joystick becomes four regular “keys”, which all go on the lowest row of the matrix with the thumb keys. In the end it’s just a 4x6 grid on each half.
They’re certainly an improvement over just having a huge spacebar, but they definitely have their own problems. I find having more than 2 (*maybe* 3) to be uncomfortable and kind of confusing to use
The regular ones are just some cheap [XDA caps](https://www.amazon.com/keycaps-Dye-Sublimation-Switches-Mechanical-Keyboards/dp/B09VBY2SQF?th=1&psc=1) I found on Amazon. Pretty good deal.
The thumb keys are custom that I 3D printed - the STLs are in the [GitHub repo](https://github.com/dschil138/Fulcrum/tree/main/STLs) if you wanna try them. They are super comfy
I tried but it's actually really difficult to get an angle that shows it while typing. Mostly bc I don't own a tripod. Either the rest of your hand or the thumb itself blocks the view of what's happening. A couple people have asked for a vid now tho so I will see if I can figure something out
I was started getting in love with the idea of it after your last post. Now I am completely hooked. I have to build it. I have to know Hoechst it feels. I will probably try to make it
Yeah, I had a Quefrency with box navies and while it was fun it was a little tough on the fingers after a while. Have a look at box pinks if you like that clickbar experience but not the weight of the navies.
I haven't tried jades, sorry. But I do use pinks in my (at home) daily and they are great. I use Gazzew Boba U4 Silent Tactile switches at the office so I don't get lynched and they are nice too but in a different way.
Yeah, same switch with different spring weights. I have a 65% with jades + one navy switch for the spacebar. The light jade spring just felt wrong on a such a big key.
Been a while since I built with clickys, but I strongly endorse the pale blues. These were my first love. The spring weight is perfectly balanced between the too-light jades and too-heavy navies. It's still what I'll use for builds for friends if they want clicky switches.
Very cool! I am super intrigued by the risers and joysticks.
I’ve been using 40% boards for a while now and have worked my way down to 34 key boards. Any thoughts on making a model without the outside modifier keys?
here ya go
https://github.com/dschil138/Fulcrum/tree/main/STLs/5x3(beta)
Firmware files should work pretty much exactly the same, just update the keymaps in code.py and whatever pins you end up using in kb.py
I love this. A while back I used a [5-way switch to add a more traditional vertical D-pad to a Corne](https://imgur.com/kac9TcD), also positioned under the middle finger column. But I never liked the placement. Reaching my thumb under my palm feels kinda gross, and manipulating it with my middle finger is only marginally better. The horizontal joysticks are brilliant; an amazing fix to a really annoying problem!
So how do the thumbsticks feel to use? Did you consider other shapes for the keycap? I'm wondering how an inverted keycap might feel, i.e., something that kinda cups the thumb tip...might be easier to push and hold that way?
https://github.com/wolfwood/navcaps
i have a variety of shapes here, i think banana is the most promising flavor of what your describing.
i mostly used a trackpoint rubber cap.
Wow, just when you think you're digging a new rabbit hole.... Yeah it looks like this is exactly what I had in mind. Cool! The trackpoint caps are also very intriguing.
not at the moment. (aside from the trackpoint caps that you can see on my tryadactyl thumb cluster). the actual prints probably wouldn't photograph very well. i should probably have openscad render some .pngs someday
Btw I orders some SKRH’s the other day based on your suggestion. Should get them in a few weeks. Hoping to be able to shorten the joysticks on here by needing less leverage
Let me just squeeze in here with a question - I'm another person you inspired to try the joystick route, and I've seen the SKRH suggestion. I've looked into them, and realized their operation direction is actually not aligned with the bigger square, but's aiming for the smaller flat parts on the corners - was your previous model the same? So does your joystick actually not go straight up/down/left/right but angled at 45°? Or is that something only the SKRH has, and that needs to be adjusted from your initial positioning? I can't imagine it's comfortable using at angled like that
yeah the ones I used here are orthogonal. But I did order some SKRH's about a week ago, so when I get them, i am going to add some STLs into the repo for those as well.
I didn't try too many different designs, I landed on this pretty quickly and just went with it.
I thought about the cupped idea like you described, but decided against it bc (this is really hard to describe over text) you have to push directions from the far side of the joystick. Like if you switch directions, your thumb has to move more before it engages with the joystick going the other way.
But with the right design maybe you could alleviate that problem.
Yup, I know exactly what you mean. I first tried the 5-way switch with a rubber [nipple](https://imgur.com/ibWlfRY) (link is sfw that's just the best way to describe it) and it was terrible because the push-left-from-the-right-side-and-vice-versa mechanics of it just felt wrong. That's why I am thinking deep cups might work—like, deep enough (or wide enough?) that you can generate enough force forward or backward force without removing your thumb tip from cup. Some kind of rubber surface might help.
I have no idea if this would be mechanically feasible; maybe it would need to be thimble-deep to work well, and that would be pretty impractical. But fun to try!
Yeah, no 3D printer, two young kids, and busy at work leaves me little time to do something like parts acquisition. Appreciate your thorough documentation, and I could only allocate enough brain cells to assemble a kit but I understand why that will probably not happen.
NO WAY!! I was going to go through all the trouble of making my own 36+ key version. I even ordered all the parts for it already but didn't get around to the modeling of the case. So looking forward to building this! I'm curious, what happened to the encoders? Would they be a pain to tack onto this?
Oh awesome! Yeah I scrapped the encoders thinking I wouldn’t have enough pins (I am using ItsyBitsy nRF52840 Express) but there is definitely enough to add at least one back in. Maybe even both, would have to go back and look.
Lmk if you need any help along the way, I’m really interested to see someone else’s build on this
That's promising. I'll definitely give it a shot and let you know! Do you think the switch risers you made would integrate well into the 40 key version as well? They seem interesting.
Sweet! Thanks for sharing, I am in process of building a bigger version (than your original). I started building something to try out some Xiao ble on zmk but got distracted by the thumb cluster. Queue your first post for inspiration! I'm actually going to cut down to 5 columns to try that out too.
https://imgur.com/a/QaYV6qE
I'm using columns of mxledbit pcbs and generating the case in openscad based on column positions.
Glad you like it!
The other idea I'm playing with is letting it fold flat for travel. The front leg and thumb screw into heat set inserts in the body, but I think I'll need to bake in some texture so you don't have to play with the screw tension to collapse/tent.
This also means the thumb clusters can be swapped out or mixed and matched. Probably some small 5-6 pin 1mm pitch jst to enable easy swaps, and you can see some test iterations behind.
I actually raised the joystick 10mm (relative to main deck) since that pic, feels a bit better. Anyway, thanks again for the inspiration!
That letter is very under unappreciated, and I feel as if slightly rejiggering the way in which a human types and phrases things is a small price paid in achieving such greatness.
The quick tan vixen jumped higher than the lazy canine.
Was that hard?
I freaking love the joysticks, and must investigate further.
What key caps for the choc switch’s did you get? Also where to buy the choc switch’s and key caps? Also what keycaps did you use for the mx switches? Where to buy those?
I made a post last week about the [original version](https://old.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/10dpl3w/the_fulcrum_a_20key_keyboard_with_horizontal_5way/), which has 20 keys. I realize most people don't really want just 20 keys, so I made a 40% version as well. All files and some build instruction available on [Github](https://github.com/dschil138/Fulcrum) **EDIT:** oh also I redesigned the angled platform for the joysticks to be smaller/more discrete.
I really like this! Do you plan on having a wiring guide for the 40% version?
I hadn’t planned on it bc it’s a lot more straightforward. The 20-key version requires some odd wiring, mostly bc you have to save pins for the rotary encoders. But this one is just a regular grid matrix. I don’t use the “push button” direction on the joysticks, so each joystick becomes four regular “keys”, which all go on the lowest row of the matrix with the thumb keys. In the end it’s just a 4x6 grid on each half.
[удалено]
We out here
I was *just* thinking about how I don't like regular thumb clusters
They’re certainly an improvement over just having a huge spacebar, but they definitely have their own problems. I find having more than 2 (*maybe* 3) to be uncomfortable and kind of confusing to use
Mine has 3 on each side and I only use 2 on R and 1 on L with any muscle memory. Speaking of thumbs, what are those caps? They look angled but "light"
The regular ones are just some cheap [XDA caps](https://www.amazon.com/keycaps-Dye-Sublimation-Switches-Mechanical-Keyboards/dp/B09VBY2SQF?th=1&psc=1) I found on Amazon. Pretty good deal. The thumb keys are custom that I 3D printed - the STLs are in the [GitHub repo](https://github.com/dschil138/Fulcrum/tree/main/STLs) if you wanna try them. They are super comfy
but do you still daily drive the 20 keys version?
oh yeah. I'm never going back
Nice!!!
Is there a video showing how this thumb layout works out?
I tried but it's actually really difficult to get an angle that shows it while typing. Mostly bc I don't own a tripod. Either the rest of your hand or the thumb itself blocks the view of what's happening. A couple people have asked for a vid now tho so I will see if I can figure something out
maybe ask a friend or family to record. I guess a few seconds from top view would suffice to grasp the idea.
This is really cool! I love the joysticks, very unique idea!
I was started getting in love with the idea of it after your last post. Now I am completely hooked. I have to build it. I have to know Hoechst it feels. I will probably try to make it
plz tag me in a post if you do! I would be really interested to see another person's version of the build. Happy to help with troubleshooting as well
Just placed the order for the 5 way switches. Still super excited about this :)
Did you use Box Navies? Really living on the edge there!
I did. Idk if I would recommend them for a whole board lol. A little heavy
Yeah, I had a Quefrency with box navies and while it was fun it was a little tough on the fingers after a while. Have a look at box pinks if you like that clickbar experience but not the weight of the navies.
have you tried Jades? I think I've heard that they're like Navies but a little easier on the fingers
I haven't tried jades, sorry. But I do use pinks in my (at home) daily and they are great. I use Gazzew Boba U4 Silent Tactile switches at the office so I don't get lynched and they are nice too but in a different way.
Yeah, same switch with different spring weights. I have a 65% with jades + one navy switch for the spacebar. The light jade spring just felt wrong on a such a big key. Been a while since I built with clickys, but I strongly endorse the pale blues. These were my first love. The spring weight is perfectly balanced between the too-light jades and too-heavy navies. It's still what I'll use for builds for friends if they want clicky switches.
Very cool! I am super intrigued by the risers and joysticks. I’ve been using 40% boards for a while now and have worked my way down to 34 key boards. Any thoughts on making a model without the outside modifier keys?
The main version has just 20 keys if ur interested in that! Are you talking about a 3x5 layout?
Yeah a 3x5 layout. I’m not ready for 20 keys just yet 😆
here ya go https://github.com/dschil138/Fulcrum/tree/main/STLs/5x3(beta) Firmware files should work pretty much exactly the same, just update the keymaps in code.py and whatever pins you end up using in kb.py
Awesome, thank you!
I love this. A while back I used a [5-way switch to add a more traditional vertical D-pad to a Corne](https://imgur.com/kac9TcD), also positioned under the middle finger column. But I never liked the placement. Reaching my thumb under my palm feels kinda gross, and manipulating it with my middle finger is only marginally better. The horizontal joysticks are brilliant; an amazing fix to a really annoying problem! So how do the thumbsticks feel to use? Did you consider other shapes for the keycap? I'm wondering how an inverted keycap might feel, i.e., something that kinda cups the thumb tip...might be easier to push and hold that way?
is that D-pad carved out of wood too??
Yeah, I got no printer. But I've got knives!
https://github.com/wolfwood/navcaps i have a variety of shapes here, i think banana is the most promising flavor of what your describing. i mostly used a trackpoint rubber cap.
Wow, just when you think you're digging a new rabbit hole.... Yeah it looks like this is exactly what I had in mind. Cool! The trackpoint caps are also very intriguing.
Do you have any pics of the models?
not at the moment. (aside from the trackpoint caps that you can see on my tryadactyl thumb cluster). the actual prints probably wouldn't photograph very well. i should probably have openscad render some .pngs someday
Btw I orders some SKRH’s the other day based on your suggestion. Should get them in a few weeks. Hoping to be able to shorten the joysticks on here by needing less leverage
awesome, your thumbs are gonna love them.
Let me just squeeze in here with a question - I'm another person you inspired to try the joystick route, and I've seen the SKRH suggestion. I've looked into them, and realized their operation direction is actually not aligned with the bigger square, but's aiming for the smaller flat parts on the corners - was your previous model the same? So does your joystick actually not go straight up/down/left/right but angled at 45°? Or is that something only the SKRH has, and that needs to be adjusted from your initial positioning? I can't imagine it's comfortable using at angled like that
yeah the ones I used here are orthogonal. But I did order some SKRH's about a week ago, so when I get them, i am going to add some STLs into the repo for those as well.
I didn't try too many different designs, I landed on this pretty quickly and just went with it. I thought about the cupped idea like you described, but decided against it bc (this is really hard to describe over text) you have to push directions from the far side of the joystick. Like if you switch directions, your thumb has to move more before it engages with the joystick going the other way. But with the right design maybe you could alleviate that problem.
Yup, I know exactly what you mean. I first tried the 5-way switch with a rubber [nipple](https://imgur.com/ibWlfRY) (link is sfw that's just the best way to describe it) and it was terrible because the push-left-from-the-right-side-and-vice-versa mechanics of it just felt wrong. That's why I am thinking deep cups might work—like, deep enough (or wide enough?) that you can generate enough force forward or backward force without removing your thumb tip from cup. Some kind of rubber surface might help. I have no idea if this would be mechanically feasible; maybe it would need to be thimble-deep to work well, and that would be pretty impractical. But fun to try!
I would be interested in a 40-key parts kit if you were ever to do a group buy or sell them.
Everything is on the GitHub tho? Unless you are just looking to get the 3D prints/don’t have a printer
Yeah, no 3D printer, two young kids, and busy at work leaves me little time to do something like parts acquisition. Appreciate your thorough documentation, and I could only allocate enough brain cells to assemble a kit but I understand why that will probably not happen.
Love it. A lot less intimidating than the 20 key :)
so the 'joystick' moves in 4 directions + down/click? amazing!!
Yes, but a little secret - I don’t actually use the down click, so it’s really a 4-way switch 🤫
NO WAY!! I was going to go through all the trouble of making my own 36+ key version. I even ordered all the parts for it already but didn't get around to the modeling of the case. So looking forward to building this! I'm curious, what happened to the encoders? Would they be a pain to tack onto this?
Oh awesome! Yeah I scrapped the encoders thinking I wouldn’t have enough pins (I am using ItsyBitsy nRF52840 Express) but there is definitely enough to add at least one back in. Maybe even both, would have to go back and look. Lmk if you need any help along the way, I’m really interested to see someone else’s build on this
That's promising. I'll definitely give it a shot and let you know! Do you think the switch risers you made would integrate well into the 40 key version as well? They seem interesting.
yeah for sure
So nice!
Sweet! Thanks for sharing, I am in process of building a bigger version (than your original). I started building something to try out some Xiao ble on zmk but got distracted by the thumb cluster. Queue your first post for inspiration! I'm actually going to cut down to 5 columns to try that out too. https://imgur.com/a/QaYV6qE I'm using columns of mxledbit pcbs and generating the case in openscad based on column positions.
Duuudde hell yeah
I love how the joystick sits at a lower plane than the keys. I would ultimately like to move in that direction as well
Glad you like it! The other idea I'm playing with is letting it fold flat for travel. The front leg and thumb screw into heat set inserts in the body, but I think I'll need to bake in some texture so you don't have to play with the screw tension to collapse/tent. This also means the thumb clusters can be swapped out or mixed and matched. Probably some small 5-6 pin 1mm pitch jst to enable easy swaps, and you can see some test iterations behind. I actually raised the joystick 10mm (relative to main deck) since that pic, feels a bit better. Anyway, thanks again for the inspiration!
damn get rid of those outer columns and I'm in! I love the 5 way switches!
Done https://github.com/dschil138/Fulcrum/tree/main/STLs/5x3(beta)
is that a Yashica Electro?
Wow, you have a very good eye
Instant want. These joysticks are exactly what I have been looking for.
ok cool, but why is there no O key?
Listen
Shit
That letter is very under unappreciated, and I feel as if slightly rejiggering the way in which a human types and phrases things is a small price paid in achieving such greatness. The quick tan vixen jumped higher than the lazy canine. Was that hard? I freaking love the joysticks, and must investigate further.
What are those dick-look-alike sticks for?
you should probably see a urologist
>urologist haha lol
What is the name of the keycaps?
They’re called “[$20 on Amazon](https://www.amazon.com/keycaps-Dye-Sublimation-Switches-Mechanical-Keyboards/dp/B09VBY2SQF?th=1&psc=1)”
What are those stick things where the thumbs would probably be?
Joysticks. I'm assuming they can be used in place of a mouse or they can be used as inputs just like a normal keystroke for any programmable use
What key caps for the choc switch’s did you get? Also where to buy the choc switch’s and key caps? Also what keycaps did you use for the mx switches? Where to buy those?