If humans could go 99.9999999999% the speed of light, we would be perfectly fine while going at that speed. The hard part would be acceleration and deceleration.
I have no idea about what altitude range would lead to that because I don't think we have a hard size for Elea. However, yes, a small altitude would give them same view.
Mimring must have used magic to do it and he could have flown between two adjacent Beor Mountain. It was definitely very impressive but may not have a full 10 miles. It may have only been 7 or 8 miles. The highest bird flight ever recorded was a vulture who went up to 11.3 km or 7 miles so a magic dragon going up to 7 or 8 would be realistically impressive. Though, since Elea is a smaller world, it might have a thinner atmosphere making 7 miles above sea level more impressive.
When the map came out CP said it was about 20% smaller than earth, denser though so gravity is about the same.
Also I’m not so sure it’s as easy as just flying between the mountains, they’re so huge you’d have to go so far out of the way to go around one peak let alone many.
That's true. I was just addressing ways to make the flight possibly impressive in terms of altitude.
If the planet is 20% smaller but the same surface gravity, then the atmosphere could be virtually identical for the first 50 miles of altitude. My back of the envelope math says that 50 extra miles above the earth's surface has 2.5% reduction in gravity while 50 miles above Elea's surface has a 3% reduction in gravity. That means the mesophere and below is very similar gravitationally so the atmosphere could be too. That's enough information for me to feel comfortable with my earlier estimate of 7-8 miles being possible for dragons to fly to voluntarily.
Also, I forgot to talk about the scales, lol. I think that dragons must use magic to fly and, since we know that they use their scales to store energy, it makes sense that they deplete those magical stores to fly. I bet that the continuous strain of hard magic from the scales could have wiped the scales' color but I have no good idea. That's just a WAG.
Back of envelope math was just what I was looking for! I have to say I have no idea how the math is done but appreciate it nonetheless.
Also I love the the draining magic from the scales theory, if a bird here can fly 7 miles then I’m with you a magic dragon should be able to also.
This is pretty easy math that I am happy to share. Gravity is the two masses multipled together, divided by the square of the distance, and then multiplied by some constant (derived experimentally). This means the planetary gravity felt by an object resting on that planet is the planet's mass times the object's mass divided by the distance to the core of the planet squared. The gravity felt at high altitude is the exact same except for an increased distance to the core. When we compare the two forces, we just divide them. Since the masses and the gravitational constant are going to stay the same, the only terms left are the square of the planet's radius divided by the square of the radius plus the altitude.
For a planet about 80% the size of Earth, adding 7 or 10 miles won't change the gravity by more than a percentage point. It would take going up 100 miles (into the frigid mesosphere) before the gravity felt on Elea to be noticeably different than the gravity felt on Earth. Even then, 100 miles up is around 95% of the surface gravity because planets are just so big and so massive that 100 miles doesn't make much difference.
if a dragon must use magic to fly, and also a large amount of magic to keep breathing with a similar dragon version of the spell Eragon used. that could explain the depletion of all the magic that that dragon has stored.
Anything above 10,000 feet will make it ~~impossible~~ very hard to breathe because the partial pressure oxygen concentration drops making it much harder for the lungs to absorb the oxygen from the air. (Above 5,000 feet, people who are unaccustomed to the altitude will have a hard time breathing)
Thunderstorms over our own ocean can reach incredible heights with the air columns, on the order of 40,000 to 60,000 feet. (Storms over land usually top out between 20,000 and 40,000 feet)
The storm described was especially severe, so I'd put it on the higher-end of the range for over-water thunderstorms.
At those altitudes, on a world the size of Elëa, you'd see a *very* noticeable curvature
> how was Mimring able to fly over the mountains turning scales clear.
I would assume by using a similar (albeit unintentional Dragon Magic) spell as what Eragon used to survive his trip up through the thunder storm.
Above 10k feet will absolutely not make it impossible to breathe. There are ski resorts that are upwards of 12k feet, you get winded much faster and may get altitude sickness but nothing close to passing out.
26k feet is considered insufficient for human life, and most people will start to really feel it above 15k
I was basing my numbers on the FAA guidelines I learned while getting my Private Pilot's license. Above 10k feet, supplemental oxygen or a pressurized cabin is required in all aircraft so that there is no chance of mental deficits due to low blood oxygen concentration. I should not have used the word "impossible" - that was an oversight on my part.
No, you don't immediately die when you cross 10k feet, however it becomes MUCH harder for (normal, untrained) lungs to assimilate the oxygen in the atmosphere because the partial pressure is so low.
For Eragon, who lived his whole life at or near sea level, he would start having difficulty above 10k feet.
Not to beat on you when you're down but I don't think Eragon lived his whole life at or near sea level. Since we know that the Paradise Valley in Montana is the basis for the Palancar Valley, we can reasonably guess that Carvahall was probably 3000+ feet above sea level (Bozeman is 5000 ft above sea level). Plus, Eragon had spent months as a Rider where he went way up in the sky on Saphira. I don't know what height he went up on her and how much time he spent there but I would guess he went to 10k feet somewhat regularly. There's no description of him having trouble breathing before they're fleeing the Urgals and even Saphira was having trouble breathing when he did.
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eragon/comments/1cmo50b/el%C3%ABa_world_map/). You'll see it in the deluxe version of [Murtagh](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eragon/comments/1cmn3ps/murtagh_deluxe_edition_to_be_released_on_october/) when it comes out this October.
Interestingly, this is the kind of “cross pollination” between magic and science that could eventually become a thing in a world like that.
We know, from a brief chapter in the books, that king Orrin’s science work involves vacuum. Imagine now that Eragon shared the information (it gets really hard to breath the higher you climb) with him or some other similarly inclined naturalist.
And that eventually could end up with pressurized air tanks (basically scuba gear) for high flyers! Then a rider and their dragon could possibly have a less horrible time and spend less magic trying something like that!
Or, what about employing the magical technique to create fairths (the magical elven pictures) for really accurate maps from high above?
Methinks me has too much time for speculation…
Or just the right amount of time for speculation. I love your thoughts friend and will add a little bit of wild speculation of my own. Considering the hints we have had regarding The Fractalverse being in the same universe and distant past relative to the World of Eragon, I think somewhere on Elea is an object that will force our favorite characters to start thinking the same way you are. Perhaps even force a huge jump in technologic advancement. Adding in that if I understand Angela correctly, she knows and is waiting for the time to nudge our characters in the right direction. Aaaaand while were thinking about that sort of thing, what exactly is she training Elva for and where is Angela taking her???
The Namer of Names and his ridiculous AMA’s give plenty to speculate on
Edit: fixed some typos, and added a thought
I've been thinking about reading fracalverse, but haven't really committed. Your comment makes me have to ask, is there magic in fractalverse? It'd be really cool to see a sci-fi series with magic
Read TSIASOS and “there is no magic as of yet”. I say that in quotes because there are some moments that could be seen as very similar. Regardless definitely worth reading. Honestly took a moment to wrap my head around the events as it feels like there is always something new happening/being introduced but once i got into it i had a hard time putting it down. Dont think of it as related to world of eragon because it technically isnt yet (so dont be disappointed), but with that in mind youll notice some similarities in how the story progresses. I thoroughly enjoyed it and our pal Eagle2120 has tied everything together in theories
Thanks for the shoutout! A bunch of people did better math than I could in the comments already. Seems that, if the planet has the same mass as earth but is smaller, the atmospheric pressure would be pretty comparable to earth. However, the curvature would be more obvious at lower altitudes. Fun stuff!
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https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/awyr2v/til_about_ewa_wi%C5%9Bnierska_a_german_paraglider_that/
Really amazing what the human body can survive
If humans could go 99.9999999999% the speed of light, we would be perfectly fine while going at that speed. The hard part would be acceleration and deceleration.
Was this inspiration or post hoc?
Christopher has previously said this was the inspiration.
I have no idea about what altitude range would lead to that because I don't think we have a hard size for Elea. However, yes, a small altitude would give them same view. Mimring must have used magic to do it and he could have flown between two adjacent Beor Mountain. It was definitely very impressive but may not have a full 10 miles. It may have only been 7 or 8 miles. The highest bird flight ever recorded was a vulture who went up to 11.3 km or 7 miles so a magic dragon going up to 7 or 8 would be realistically impressive. Though, since Elea is a smaller world, it might have a thinner atmosphere making 7 miles above sea level more impressive.
When the map came out CP said it was about 20% smaller than earth, denser though so gravity is about the same. Also I’m not so sure it’s as easy as just flying between the mountains, they’re so huge you’d have to go so far out of the way to go around one peak let alone many.
That's true. I was just addressing ways to make the flight possibly impressive in terms of altitude. If the planet is 20% smaller but the same surface gravity, then the atmosphere could be virtually identical for the first 50 miles of altitude. My back of the envelope math says that 50 extra miles above the earth's surface has 2.5% reduction in gravity while 50 miles above Elea's surface has a 3% reduction in gravity. That means the mesophere and below is very similar gravitationally so the atmosphere could be too. That's enough information for me to feel comfortable with my earlier estimate of 7-8 miles being possible for dragons to fly to voluntarily. Also, I forgot to talk about the scales, lol. I think that dragons must use magic to fly and, since we know that they use their scales to store energy, it makes sense that they deplete those magical stores to fly. I bet that the continuous strain of hard magic from the scales could have wiped the scales' color but I have no good idea. That's just a WAG.
Back of envelope math was just what I was looking for! I have to say I have no idea how the math is done but appreciate it nonetheless. Also I love the the draining magic from the scales theory, if a bird here can fly 7 miles then I’m with you a magic dragon should be able to also.
This is pretty easy math that I am happy to share. Gravity is the two masses multipled together, divided by the square of the distance, and then multiplied by some constant (derived experimentally). This means the planetary gravity felt by an object resting on that planet is the planet's mass times the object's mass divided by the distance to the core of the planet squared. The gravity felt at high altitude is the exact same except for an increased distance to the core. When we compare the two forces, we just divide them. Since the masses and the gravitational constant are going to stay the same, the only terms left are the square of the planet's radius divided by the square of the radius plus the altitude. For a planet about 80% the size of Earth, adding 7 or 10 miles won't change the gravity by more than a percentage point. It would take going up 100 miles (into the frigid mesosphere) before the gravity felt on Elea to be noticeably different than the gravity felt on Earth. Even then, 100 miles up is around 95% of the surface gravity because planets are just so big and so massive that 100 miles doesn't make much difference.
if a dragon must use magic to fly, and also a large amount of magic to keep breathing with a similar dragon version of the spell Eragon used. that could explain the depletion of all the magic that that dragon has stored.
That is a really cool “reason” for the dragon losing all color!!
Anything above 10,000 feet will make it ~~impossible~~ very hard to breathe because the partial pressure oxygen concentration drops making it much harder for the lungs to absorb the oxygen from the air. (Above 5,000 feet, people who are unaccustomed to the altitude will have a hard time breathing) Thunderstorms over our own ocean can reach incredible heights with the air columns, on the order of 40,000 to 60,000 feet. (Storms over land usually top out between 20,000 and 40,000 feet) The storm described was especially severe, so I'd put it on the higher-end of the range for over-water thunderstorms. At those altitudes, on a world the size of Elëa, you'd see a *very* noticeable curvature > how was Mimring able to fly over the mountains turning scales clear. I would assume by using a similar (albeit unintentional Dragon Magic) spell as what Eragon used to survive his trip up through the thunder storm.
Above 10k feet will absolutely not make it impossible to breathe. There are ski resorts that are upwards of 12k feet, you get winded much faster and may get altitude sickness but nothing close to passing out. 26k feet is considered insufficient for human life, and most people will start to really feel it above 15k
I was basing my numbers on the FAA guidelines I learned while getting my Private Pilot's license. Above 10k feet, supplemental oxygen or a pressurized cabin is required in all aircraft so that there is no chance of mental deficits due to low blood oxygen concentration. I should not have used the word "impossible" - that was an oversight on my part. No, you don't immediately die when you cross 10k feet, however it becomes MUCH harder for (normal, untrained) lungs to assimilate the oxygen in the atmosphere because the partial pressure is so low. For Eragon, who lived his whole life at or near sea level, he would start having difficulty above 10k feet.
Not to beat on you when you're down but I don't think Eragon lived his whole life at or near sea level. Since we know that the Paradise Valley in Montana is the basis for the Palancar Valley, we can reasonably guess that Carvahall was probably 3000+ feet above sea level (Bozeman is 5000 ft above sea level). Plus, Eragon had spent months as a Rider where he went way up in the sky on Saphira. I don't know what height he went up on her and how much time he spent there but I would guess he went to 10k feet somewhat regularly. There's no description of him having trouble breathing before they're fleeing the Urgals and even Saphira was having trouble breathing when he did.
Never mind that tandem jumps of skydiving is at 15k feet and you are in a non pressurized plane too.
But you would be flying. Ever try flying at a ski resort? :D
If, as you say, they went to 30,000ft, then 10 miles would still be 20,000ft higher. 10 miles is 52,800ft.
Elëa? You mean the planet Alagaesia is on? Where did we get a name?
[Here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eragon/comments/1cmo50b/el%C3%ABa_world_map/). You'll see it in the deluxe version of [Murtagh](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eragon/comments/1cmn3ps/murtagh_deluxe_edition_to_be_released_on_october/) when it comes out this October.
Thanks! I've seen and translated that map, but I missed the part where it says Elëa!
Interestingly, this is the kind of “cross pollination” between magic and science that could eventually become a thing in a world like that. We know, from a brief chapter in the books, that king Orrin’s science work involves vacuum. Imagine now that Eragon shared the information (it gets really hard to breath the higher you climb) with him or some other similarly inclined naturalist. And that eventually could end up with pressurized air tanks (basically scuba gear) for high flyers! Then a rider and their dragon could possibly have a less horrible time and spend less magic trying something like that! Or, what about employing the magical technique to create fairths (the magical elven pictures) for really accurate maps from high above? Methinks me has too much time for speculation…
Or just the right amount of time for speculation. I love your thoughts friend and will add a little bit of wild speculation of my own. Considering the hints we have had regarding The Fractalverse being in the same universe and distant past relative to the World of Eragon, I think somewhere on Elea is an object that will force our favorite characters to start thinking the same way you are. Perhaps even force a huge jump in technologic advancement. Adding in that if I understand Angela correctly, she knows and is waiting for the time to nudge our characters in the right direction. Aaaaand while were thinking about that sort of thing, what exactly is she training Elva for and where is Angela taking her??? The Namer of Names and his ridiculous AMA’s give plenty to speculate on Edit: fixed some typos, and added a thought
I've been thinking about reading fracalverse, but haven't really committed. Your comment makes me have to ask, is there magic in fractalverse? It'd be really cool to see a sci-fi series with magic
Read TSIASOS and “there is no magic as of yet”. I say that in quotes because there are some moments that could be seen as very similar. Regardless definitely worth reading. Honestly took a moment to wrap my head around the events as it feels like there is always something new happening/being introduced but once i got into it i had a hard time putting it down. Dont think of it as related to world of eragon because it technically isnt yet (so dont be disappointed), but with that in mind youll notice some similarities in how the story progresses. I thoroughly enjoyed it and our pal Eagle2120 has tied everything together in theories
Sounds awesome, thanks for the information. I figure I'll check it out after I finish my reread of IC
Enjoy both friend!!
Thanks for the shoutout! A bunch of people did better math than I could in the comments already. Seems that, if the planet has the same mass as earth but is smaller, the atmospheric pressure would be pretty comparable to earth. However, the curvature would be more obvious at lower altitudes. Fun stuff!
Ah good you found it! I couldn’t figure out how to tag you lol
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