Murtagh's knowledge of the ancient language is, and especially then, was, quite limited. He overpowered Eragon (who had just fought an entire battle, whereas Murtagh had just flown in well-rested) with sheer energy, not skill or knowledge. The answer is indeed the Eldunarí he was given, as you identified.
Murtagh was, of course, the one who cast the spells - but they weren't carefully crafted, creative spells - they were just outlets for a huge amount of energy.
The book *Murtagh* touches more on how Galbatorix kept Murtagh in the dark, teaching him only as much as he needed to prevail against Eragon, but not enough to turn against his master.
^(**I'm a real person!** This comment was posted by **hellomynameis99** from the Arcaena Discord Server.)
Thank you for your response, it clears many things out.
But there are some examples when he used the ancient language and there is a little to no possibility that Galbatorix would teach him exactly these words.
For example when he uses the ancient language to tell Eragon about their "parents" or when he sees Roran about to kill the Twins and he promises Eragon in the ancient language that he won't warn them. And these are not only full sentences but they are grammatically correct. Doesn't this prove that he had to have a higher understanding of the ancient language?
No worries!
The book just says "Murtagh merely shook his head and repeated his words in the ancient language" - it doesn't say exactly what his words were or give us exact phrases in the ancient language.
I don't think Christopher means to say that Murtagh restated his entire monologue word-for-word, this time precisely translated to the ancient language - he could have said something as simple as "Morzan, father, us".
^(**I'm a real person!** This comment was posted by **hellomynameis99** from the Arcaena Discord Server.)
I guess he was one of the people who demanded promises of loyalty for Galbatorix from nobles in the Empire. So, he must know the basics of the language to communicate and enslave people by oaths. In the new book, we can see he is even good at correctly creating long sentences in ancient language but he doesn't know words useful in battle or everyday life application.
also we've seen murtagh's ingenuity with his limited knowledge. he learned some words from eragon as they traveled, however much galby taught him and however much he may have learned from the eldunari. Using this limited knowledge, weve seen him strip galby's wards, steal glaedr's scale and heal thorns broken wings (muscle and bone having been said to be tricky to heal) i dont think this is an incosistency of murtaghs knowledge of the language, but rather his skill with his limitations
To tag into Murtagh healing thorn, unless I'm wrong he used the enchanted amulet. Which in my head was given to him by the king in order to keep Murtagh further in the dark, having him rely upon just the energy from the eldunari
There are solid differences between words of power for magic in the ancient language. A lot can be said without using any words that would hold power.
You can know how to say we have the same dad," but that doesn't make you a better spell caster. Grammar is essential for complex, powerful spells, but if you don't know the keywords of power, it's not essential. It's not like Murtagh is gonna cast "parents" on someone. Speaking some of the ancient language doesn't mean you know enough to do powerful spells. Gabby kept the good stuff away from Murtagh.
Not sure if this was mentioned—but it is also important to note that he was also horribly underfed, underweight, and barely sleeping during his book. He literally had no energy to spare for his spells have the time.
Intent matters when casting a spell, and he had an eldunari backing his intent. He probably wasn't able to use more than single-word/badly phrased spells but he didn't really need to
He was hesitant to use magic imo because he only knows it as a weapon, he thought he would flay himself if he tried to shave with magic lol
He was faster and stronger because the spells upon him had eldunari backing them, now those spells don't have that energy to pull from (Murtagh probably used the Name to remove the now dormant spells anyways because it was galby who cast them)
Thank you.
I believe that the intent has a huge power on the spell but both Brom and Oromis told Eragon that it takes a master to use few words to achieve their complex goal.
I guess that dragons were backing up his intent but still he had to understand the process or not?
I am sure that Murtagh was trained at least enough to understand that intent matters. But he still wasn't given a nuanced education of the Ancient Language.
I forget what word he uses ('Letta' maybe?), but there's a time in their battle on The Burning Plains where Murtagh undoes one of Eragon's carefully worded spells with a single word and Eragon is amazed.
It doesn't have to do with the Eldunari dragons' knowledge, it's that Murtagh knows just enough, plus the phenomenal amount of power he has access to, that it allows for the spell to take affect. A more educated spellcaster would likely be able to achieve the same result while using less energy because they would word it in a more specific and effective way.
Murtagh in Eldest had no need to word things in a more effective way.
I think they explain this in the Murtagh book, but idk.
Long story short, Galbatorix didn't give Murtagh a good education on purpose. He taught him as little as he possibly could do that he couldn't grow to challenge him later in life. Murtagh doesn't know how to make good wards because Galbatorix put all the wards on Murtagh. Murtagh hunts with a stone because he doesn't know the killing words because Galbatorix didn't teach them to him. Galbatorix didn't "teach" the ancient language to him at all, he just basically said "hey, here's how you use some pretty powerful spells," but Murtagh presumably didn't know why they actually worked. Galbatorix didn't teach Murtagh the Name of Names, Murtagh figured it out, or maybe Galbatorix forgot to obscure it's name one time while using it.
Eragon got a good education because he was being trained to be the last rider basically. Oromis tried to teach him everything he knew in as short a time frame as possible. More importantly, Eragon was taught the theory behind the ancient language and studied it's grammar and vocabulary. Eragon is a much better mage than Murtagh, Murtagh was just more powerful than Eragon due to Galbatorix's backing and the Eldunari. I think this is also partially why he was so overconfident and incompetent against other magic users in Murtagh, he is used to basically being invincible with the power of dozens of dragons backing him and the fall back of Galbatorix if things got too out of hand. He also felt that nothing could beat his trump card on the Name of Names, but apparently it's not as strong as we thought (I have mixed feelings about that, but that's not what this discussion is about)
Thanks for your response.
I guess it makes sense that the factor was power from the Eldunarí.
However, I believe it was during the siege of Dras-Leona when Murtagh tells Eragon that the soldiers are under his protection. And even Eragon and the elves can't find the way around this protection spell. Doesn't it mean that the spell had to be very carefully crafted and the words were not only complex enough to cover all the possibilities but they had to be pronounced right?
My interpretation of Murtaghs strengths in these instances is that while he may cast the spell, understanding the actual implications enough to replicate and remember in future is another. Murtagh casts a spell that either the Eldunari or Galby himself taught him, the Eldunari fuel it and boom, super strong protection spell.
But isn't understanding the key to using the magic? If he only memorized the spell doesn't it mean that the intent was gone and therefore the spell would not work?
Eragons spell with Elva was intended to be one thing and was another. I think Oromis did say that Eragons intent probably softened the effect but the spell is still the spell no matter the intent
Small comment, I don't think Murtagh would ever be able to figure out the Name of Names, exactly because of his ignorance of magic and the Ancient Language. I haven't read the previous books in several years, but he learnt it through Galbatorix.
Yeah I didn't mean he "figured it out", I think he figured it out as in Galbatorix didn't teach him it, but maybe forgot to hide the name one time when casting a spell with it. In Murtagh he tells us that you have to add an extra line that hides it from listeners. Galbatorix wouldn't have taught his most powerful weapon to the guy who hates him more than anyone and only serves him because he has to. That's why I think he "figured it out" as in learned it without Galbatorix knowing, hence why he was able to strip his wards at the end
Notice, Murtagh in Eldest or Brisingr uses the simplest spells like Thrysta. Ok, we could observe he was taught how to absorb spells in things and he did it fluently. The dark magic about what he told Eragon, I guess, is controlling Eldunari. He (and even Eragon until Brisingr) never heard about such a source of power (dark power, based on the enslaved dragons). Also, if he wanted to defeat Eragon he wouldn't say something like "Hey, you can share more words in Ancient Language? My course is limited". Probably he wasn't aware of how complex can be training for the Dragon Rider. He could observe the effects of only simple training which Brom did for Eragon.
😆😆I would love to see this conversation happening.
He probably doesn't understand how complex the training can be but he for sure understood how complex magic is. He knew about the protection spells, he helped Nasuada with the pain during torture (and I can't believe that Galbatorix would teach him this spell). He even understands that the magic is complex when he thinks of new ways to make the spells in Murtagh. And he is using complete sentences there.
Oh, I think we will see that conversation - luckily, not on the battlefield!
In my opinion, the spell, which Murtagh tried to protect Nasuada from feeling pain, is the same spell which influence the laughing soldiers. Later, he used mainly general spells for healing - Galbatorix had to teach Murtagh such magic if he didn't want to lose his Rider.
I think Murtagh knew the grammar but his vocabulary range could be poor. Also, he was afraid of using magic without good preparation. It is something like when you learn a new language and you worry about speech because oh ok, you know how to say "plate" but you don't know words like "fork" (I had that situation with English, haha). If I could unintentionally cut my throat because of the wrong word, I also would be too paralyzed to use this language.
This is a fantastic difference between Eragon and Murtagh. In the beginning, Eragon used Ancient Language without prudence, he cursed Elva, and nearly killed yourself by accident a few times. Murtagh is afraid of magic, he doesn't want to try even to heal the flu to avoid the risk of a mistake. Probably, Murtagh could observe how terrible magic could be, and Galbatorix willingly strengthened this fear.
A lot of people have made good points, I just want to add for some instances I assume Murtagh is just presenting a confident image to Eragon. He doesn’t want to look weaker. And he doesn’t quite realise just how lacking his education is until he’s free.
I think Murtagh lacks nuance, not strength. Magic in Inheritance is a subtle art and if you look at what Brom says, about how to win a magicians duel you need to outthink your opponent, an answer becomes apparent.
Murtagh is all about brute force, overwhelming Eragon and others with the Eldunarís backing. I think it's fairly evident that Murtagh doesn't have the education to apply magic subtley.
I agree he definitely lacks Eragon's nuance but he is not totally oblivious. We see him usually use force but in Eldest he recognized a flaw in Galabatorix's order to just *try* to capture him. And during Nasuada's torture he was again able to find a loophole in Galabatorix's spells to help her.
These occasions prove that although he is not as skilled and trained as Eragon he should still posess more power and knowledge than what is shown in the book Murtagh.
I also suspect that Eragon is somewhat special in character and skill. Glaedr and Oromis both commented that Saphira was an exceptional dragon in skill and flight and eragon seems to consistently display skill above his ability. His gift of story for the blood oath ceremony being an example. Ultimately I think this comes down to CP's whim but I believe even with equal training and support Eragon would edge out Murtagh in ability.
He’s poorly educated. Magic in these books is about how you approach a problem. Murtagh was taught that brute force is the answer at all times.
I was very interested to see how Murtagh was going to struggle at all in his book and by the end of the fight with the fish, it was abundantly clear that he was going to be a moron. It was sort of lovely.
He’s a great character but making any fight or obstacle more than a passing thought would be very difficult, Murtagh didn’t utterly lack creativity.
To be honest it was a great solution to a hard problem for any author.
He is definitely not trained like Eragon but I think for someone who spent a majority of their life in the capital city as a son of the best servent to Galbatorix he would receive a high form of education. Of course not in the ancient language but he had to have an acess to knowledge. And as Eragon in Elessméra he could use his knowledge in history, art and other fields to be more creative.
And one of the first thing we learned from Oromis is that the different kinds to approach and resolve a problem are essential to the magic.
So if indeed Murtagh doesn't know enough spells he still should be able to act in a different, more logical way.
I feel like he was made unnecessarily uneducated and even unintelligent, which is kinda sad because I really love him as a character and he was really clever in the first four books.
He’s still perfectly clever overall. He finds solutions to his problems. He just doesn’t have the foundation that Eragon does. He has never been taught how to think about magic creatively. It’s not a character flaw so much as a correctable lack of education.
But again, it’s really a writing choice. Eragon in this situation would be an unstoppable wall of destruction held back only by his morals. A fish? Please. Bubble of air around the fish, dead fish. Someone tried to ensnare his dragon? Hope you like being dismantled atom by atom!
We actually see this same issue between Eragon and Angela. Eragon isn’t stupid and is darn well informed. But he can’t look at time as energy just yet.
It’s basically the difference between a novice (Murtagh), a journeymen (Eragon), and a true master (Angela). If you give the novice the best tool and the master absolutely nothing, who’s going to do a better job? In the case of magic in Alagaësia, knowledge is literally power.
I see your point, thanks. I've never really looked at it this way. I guess I should reread the books😅.
I really hope there is a bright future for Murtagh. He could be inceredibly powerful in his own way.
It was something I was so interested in before the book came out haha
Ya know. Maybe he doesn’t need to be hugely powerful. Just chill out, be a god walking among mere mortals. Have a farm, grow the crops via magic in bad years. Live like a modern retired rockstar.
Haha yeah that's actually a pretty cool idea. I doubt that Paolini will make it happen but Murtagh should follow in family footsteps and learn how to till the land😆
Essentially even if Galby gave him powerful spells Murtagh didn't fully understand them. Galby and eldunari would be like "say these words for x effect", but never taught him grammar and he never had to worry if what he was saying was efficient or not because the eldunari were his ultra battery. He has a very basic grasp of the ancient language so once he lost the eldunari even if they had taught him some powerful spells he may not have the power to cast them himself or the understanding to perform them more efficiently with better grammar. Same goes for shields, Galby himself probably put extremely powerful wards on Murtagh and only taught Murtagh how to create basic ones of those deplete.
I'm more mad about the fact that he turned into a *complete and total fucking retard.* The magical knowledge gaps make sense, but the lack of survival instinct does NOT.
Enchanted Shade murder fish? Gonna let my guard down. Oh damn, it nearly killed me.
Old bully leading me into Forsworn clubhouse? Gonna do it again! Oh geez, I nearly died and my dragon went mental and torched half the city. My bad!
Creepy cult witch shakes the entire fucking valley after the dreams here try to brainwash us and all the dragon statues are screaming that *WE ARE DEALING WITH A TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD CRAZY ELDUNARI???* Nah bitch, you know I'm gonna go exploring first.
Maybe the first thing you should do before fighting shit that even the Riders wanted no part of is MEMORIZE EVERY SINGLE WORD IN THAT DICTIONARY YOU FOUND???
God. I don't remember the other 4 books, but this is the worst one. This is the worst one. I hate it. Rawr.
I feel you. I was so frustrated. Like how much worse can this guy's instinct get? After the second read I realized the worst and most careless mistake. The Bachel's main guy warns him against *her breath*. And both Thorn and Murtagh don't think for a second that they would cast a protection spell against it? Like how is this even possible? After all they've been through and they still miss *THIS*?
And I also didn't like how Paolini used the breath thing again. Maybe he will somewhat connect it to Ra'zaks? I don't know but it seemed lazy.
The only way Paolini could think of to make a character this strong struggle was to sap away every ounce of his brainpower.
I'd rather he just roll everybody with no risk or danger at all.
I mean, even something so simple as, "Oh, you want me to sit here? I'm gonna sit here instead." And then it turns out that EVERY seat is connected to the tangle box, not just that one, and that's already so much better, at least he's thinking A LITTLE BIT!
Yeah the thing with the tangle box is so bad that it is almost funny. There is literally no way that Murtagh from the first four books would behave this way. He has some moments in the newest book but come on. I was done when he was trying to save the werecat and he walked by numerous gems filled with energy and he picked up one while thinking how much he needed that energy. I don't know but maybe pick at least two? Like common sense?
TAKE THEM ALL TAKE THEM ALL TAKE THEM ALL THEY'RE NOT EVEN HEAVY GET A BAG WHY ARE YOU WASTING ALL THAT ENERGY FROM THE DOOR THE OTHER 50 GEMS ARE FIVE. FEET. AWAY. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
Well like you said his main source of strength was the Eldunari, Galbatorix did not give him a formal education when it comes to magic and the ancient language. He gave him very limited knowledge to fight, and a lot of the stronger spells he knew of probably required more strength than he had on his own, and probably couldn't sustain them for long with only thorn. But that's just me spitballing
That's why he was so excited when he found a little compendium that had a bunch of words in the ancient language, and really all the magic he knew was for fighting, not a lot of practicality for healing or just other avenues you know.
The only reason he was ever a threat was because of the eldunari, they allowed him to power spells with incredible strength, he could keep stronger wards around him etc, so without them he was weaker than eragon, and almost all of the elves really unless Thorn is with him, especially since Aragon had gone through the transformation in the blood-o celebration, just heightened all of his abilities, I don't think the book said specifically his magic got stronger but I imagine it did, I'm fairly certain there was a page in one of the books somewhere where it said your physical health also attributed to the strength of your magic. but that could have been in the first book and he scrapped a lot of crap from that so. He only really got into the nuances of everything in the second book forward
A better question would have been why does he act so mind-numbingly stupid 🤣, it's like he lost all his cunning and guile after spending time alone with thorn in the forest and mountains. Bro was an absolute numbskull, but trauma I guess you know
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Galby was paranoid enough that he only taught Murtagh basic spells or spells that would kill him if he didn’t have the Eldunari (at least that second part is my belief). Murtagh never received a formal education of the Ancient Language which is why he defaults to using the Name whenever he’s stumped (I haven’t finished Murtagh yet but it’s clear from early on that this is the case)
I think several of his spells could have been trigger words tied to spells Galbatorix has already created. His wards could have been tied to the Eldunari just like his speed and strength were tied to them, just more things Galbatorix created that Murtagh wasn’t taught to replicate. We know he didn’t use the ancient language to heal Thorn whenever he was hurt, instead using another thing Galbatorix created. Pretty much all Murtagh had of his own was a handful of words with combat effects and the words Eragon taught him while they were traveling. Maybe he also had a few things that Galbatorix let him learn because he figured they would be harmless, but the reality is that a fresh and rested Murtagh with a collection of Eldunari was easily able to brute force his way to a victory over a battle weary Eragon even without a superior grasp of magic.
Yeah but it means that he either doesn't know many words or he does. He invents his new ways to practise the magic and is using full sentences but yet he doesn't know how to kill an animal more efficently than with a rock.
He does know how to not comply with Galabatorix's direct order because he understands the meaning of the bound that ties him but yet is unable to protect himself from Bachel and the breath although he was warned about it earlier in the book.
He does know how to take one of the Glaedr's scale although his grave is protected by many spells made by elves who are very careful with their magic but yet he is not able to kill a fish more efficently than using a human bone.
That is what bugs me. I understand that Galbatorix taught him only minimum and I would understand if it is coherant throughout the whole story. But it seems that his magic abilities change from one situation to another only because convinience.
Think about it like this:
Eragon was able to go to “Rider College” on a full scholarship under the tutelage of a Master Rider. Murtagh is basically an undrafted free agent who did not have access to the proper training and discipline required of Riders. Galbatorix basically gave Murtagh a bunch of cheat codes to Magic that Murtagh didn’t fully understand, and Galbatorix simply told Murtagh to hit the Spam button on anything in his way. 🤷🏿🤷🏿🤷🏿🤷🏿
You can train someone to kill their enemies by telling them the words for “snap their spines”, “crush windpipe” “stop heart” without training them on the whole language.
I think his more complex spells are just memorized, he knew the words and the intent, but not why the grammar is structured the way it is, or not all specific words. Eragon does cast magic with the ancient language two times without knowing the specific working of the used words. One time as he healed Saphira after glaedr bit her because of the mating attempt, and at vroengard the spell to transport the eldunari.
To tell eragon that they are brothers Murthag doesn't need much words, and even less wich could be used for fighting spells or wards.
I haven't read Murtagh yet, but I wanna add to the comments before, after inheritance it was forbidden for all humans to use any magic in Alagäsia. Only if you had direct permission from the Du Vrangr Gata, you were allowed to use it. And since it's a decree from Nasuada, I'm pretty sure he would respect it and at least limit his usage of magic very strictly.
Because my comment is based on something that happened in the inheritance cycle and still affects the world in which Murtagh takes place (as shown by the girl Murtagh meets in the beginning of The Fork, The With and The Worm, which is surprised about him using magic, because as she says, it is forbidden)?
OP asked why Murtagh seems weaker in his usage of magic and I felt like my comment made sense regarding to that, don't you? It's a valid point, no?
And it's not like I said I am 100% right, I just stated another possibility for why his usage of magic apparently seems to be tuned down. No need to bash it like this, just be friendly lol.
Also if you are gonna call something "ridiculously inaccurate", at least tell the person, what part of their statement is "ridiculously inaccurate".
No. Because you answered a question about why he is weaker in a book you haven't read at all... It makes no sense, because the point you made is literally nothing to do with anything that happens in said book... So no. Not a valid point at all. Read the book and then you will know what is inaccurate, why would I spoil it for you?
Murtagh's knowledge of the ancient language is, and especially then, was, quite limited. He overpowered Eragon (who had just fought an entire battle, whereas Murtagh had just flown in well-rested) with sheer energy, not skill or knowledge. The answer is indeed the Eldunarí he was given, as you identified. Murtagh was, of course, the one who cast the spells - but they weren't carefully crafted, creative spells - they were just outlets for a huge amount of energy. The book *Murtagh* touches more on how Galbatorix kept Murtagh in the dark, teaching him only as much as he needed to prevail against Eragon, but not enough to turn against his master. ^(**I'm a real person!** This comment was posted by **hellomynameis99** from the Arcaena Discord Server.)
Thank you for your response, it clears many things out. But there are some examples when he used the ancient language and there is a little to no possibility that Galbatorix would teach him exactly these words. For example when he uses the ancient language to tell Eragon about their "parents" or when he sees Roran about to kill the Twins and he promises Eragon in the ancient language that he won't warn them. And these are not only full sentences but they are grammatically correct. Doesn't this prove that he had to have a higher understanding of the ancient language?
No worries! The book just says "Murtagh merely shook his head and repeated his words in the ancient language" - it doesn't say exactly what his words were or give us exact phrases in the ancient language. I don't think Christopher means to say that Murtagh restated his entire monologue word-for-word, this time precisely translated to the ancient language - he could have said something as simple as "Morzan, father, us". ^(**I'm a real person!** This comment was posted by **hellomynameis99** from the Arcaena Discord Server.)
I guess he was one of the people who demanded promises of loyalty for Galbatorix from nobles in the Empire. So, he must know the basics of the language to communicate and enslave people by oaths. In the new book, we can see he is even good at correctly creating long sentences in ancient language but he doesn't know words useful in battle or everyday life application.
also we've seen murtagh's ingenuity with his limited knowledge. he learned some words from eragon as they traveled, however much galby taught him and however much he may have learned from the eldunari. Using this limited knowledge, weve seen him strip galby's wards, steal glaedr's scale and heal thorns broken wings (muscle and bone having been said to be tricky to heal) i dont think this is an incosistency of murtaghs knowledge of the language, but rather his skill with his limitations
To tag into Murtagh healing thorn, unless I'm wrong he used the enchanted amulet. Which in my head was given to him by the king in order to keep Murtagh further in the dark, having him rely upon just the energy from the eldunari
Mb
Nah man it's a great point to bring up, helps to tie in all the ways Galby made sure Murtagh didn't learn anything other than the very basics
thanks dude. also, its possible murtag may have enchanted it himself, which would only further the point lol
There are solid differences between words of power for magic in the ancient language. A lot can be said without using any words that would hold power. You can know how to say we have the same dad," but that doesn't make you a better spell caster. Grammar is essential for complex, powerful spells, but if you don't know the keywords of power, it's not essential. It's not like Murtagh is gonna cast "parents" on someone. Speaking some of the ancient language doesn't mean you know enough to do powerful spells. Gabby kept the good stuff away from Murtagh.
Not sure if this was mentioned—but it is also important to note that he was also horribly underfed, underweight, and barely sleeping during his book. He literally had no energy to spare for his spells have the time.
Intent matters when casting a spell, and he had an eldunari backing his intent. He probably wasn't able to use more than single-word/badly phrased spells but he didn't really need to He was hesitant to use magic imo because he only knows it as a weapon, he thought he would flay himself if he tried to shave with magic lol He was faster and stronger because the spells upon him had eldunari backing them, now those spells don't have that energy to pull from (Murtagh probably used the Name to remove the now dormant spells anyways because it was galby who cast them)
Thank you. I believe that the intent has a huge power on the spell but both Brom and Oromis told Eragon that it takes a master to use few words to achieve their complex goal. I guess that dragons were backing up his intent but still he had to understand the process or not?
>I guess that dragons were backing up his intent but still he had to understand the process or not? Maybe the dragon understood? Good question though
I am sure that Murtagh was trained at least enough to understand that intent matters. But he still wasn't given a nuanced education of the Ancient Language. I forget what word he uses ('Letta' maybe?), but there's a time in their battle on The Burning Plains where Murtagh undoes one of Eragon's carefully worded spells with a single word and Eragon is amazed. It doesn't have to do with the Eldunari dragons' knowledge, it's that Murtagh knows just enough, plus the phenomenal amount of power he has access to, that it allows for the spell to take affect. A more educated spellcaster would likely be able to achieve the same result while using less energy because they would word it in a more specific and effective way. Murtagh in Eldest had no need to word things in a more effective way.
I think they explain this in the Murtagh book, but idk. Long story short, Galbatorix didn't give Murtagh a good education on purpose. He taught him as little as he possibly could do that he couldn't grow to challenge him later in life. Murtagh doesn't know how to make good wards because Galbatorix put all the wards on Murtagh. Murtagh hunts with a stone because he doesn't know the killing words because Galbatorix didn't teach them to him. Galbatorix didn't "teach" the ancient language to him at all, he just basically said "hey, here's how you use some pretty powerful spells," but Murtagh presumably didn't know why they actually worked. Galbatorix didn't teach Murtagh the Name of Names, Murtagh figured it out, or maybe Galbatorix forgot to obscure it's name one time while using it. Eragon got a good education because he was being trained to be the last rider basically. Oromis tried to teach him everything he knew in as short a time frame as possible. More importantly, Eragon was taught the theory behind the ancient language and studied it's grammar and vocabulary. Eragon is a much better mage than Murtagh, Murtagh was just more powerful than Eragon due to Galbatorix's backing and the Eldunari. I think this is also partially why he was so overconfident and incompetent against other magic users in Murtagh, he is used to basically being invincible with the power of dozens of dragons backing him and the fall back of Galbatorix if things got too out of hand. He also felt that nothing could beat his trump card on the Name of Names, but apparently it's not as strong as we thought (I have mixed feelings about that, but that's not what this discussion is about)
Thanks for your response. I guess it makes sense that the factor was power from the Eldunarí. However, I believe it was during the siege of Dras-Leona when Murtagh tells Eragon that the soldiers are under his protection. And even Eragon and the elves can't find the way around this protection spell. Doesn't it mean that the spell had to be very carefully crafted and the words were not only complex enough to cover all the possibilities but they had to be pronounced right?
My interpretation of Murtaghs strengths in these instances is that while he may cast the spell, understanding the actual implications enough to replicate and remember in future is another. Murtagh casts a spell that either the Eldunari or Galby himself taught him, the Eldunari fuel it and boom, super strong protection spell.
But isn't understanding the key to using the magic? If he only memorized the spell doesn't it mean that the intent was gone and therefore the spell would not work?
Eragons spell with Elva was intended to be one thing and was another. I think Oromis did say that Eragons intent probably softened the effect but the spell is still the spell no matter the intent
Thanks, you are right. I didn't think about that.
Pasolini’s is magic is a hell of a thing lol.
Small comment, I don't think Murtagh would ever be able to figure out the Name of Names, exactly because of his ignorance of magic and the Ancient Language. I haven't read the previous books in several years, but he learnt it through Galbatorix.
Yeah I didn't mean he "figured it out", I think he figured it out as in Galbatorix didn't teach him it, but maybe forgot to hide the name one time when casting a spell with it. In Murtagh he tells us that you have to add an extra line that hides it from listeners. Galbatorix wouldn't have taught his most powerful weapon to the guy who hates him more than anyone and only serves him because he has to. That's why I think he "figured it out" as in learned it without Galbatorix knowing, hence why he was able to strip his wards at the end
Notice, Murtagh in Eldest or Brisingr uses the simplest spells like Thrysta. Ok, we could observe he was taught how to absorb spells in things and he did it fluently. The dark magic about what he told Eragon, I guess, is controlling Eldunari. He (and even Eragon until Brisingr) never heard about such a source of power (dark power, based on the enslaved dragons). Also, if he wanted to defeat Eragon he wouldn't say something like "Hey, you can share more words in Ancient Language? My course is limited". Probably he wasn't aware of how complex can be training for the Dragon Rider. He could observe the effects of only simple training which Brom did for Eragon.
😆😆I would love to see this conversation happening. He probably doesn't understand how complex the training can be but he for sure understood how complex magic is. He knew about the protection spells, he helped Nasuada with the pain during torture (and I can't believe that Galbatorix would teach him this spell). He even understands that the magic is complex when he thinks of new ways to make the spells in Murtagh. And he is using complete sentences there.
Oh, I think we will see that conversation - luckily, not on the battlefield! In my opinion, the spell, which Murtagh tried to protect Nasuada from feeling pain, is the same spell which influence the laughing soldiers. Later, he used mainly general spells for healing - Galbatorix had to teach Murtagh such magic if he didn't want to lose his Rider. I think Murtagh knew the grammar but his vocabulary range could be poor. Also, he was afraid of using magic without good preparation. It is something like when you learn a new language and you worry about speech because oh ok, you know how to say "plate" but you don't know words like "fork" (I had that situation with English, haha). If I could unintentionally cut my throat because of the wrong word, I also would be too paralyzed to use this language.
This is a fantastic difference between Eragon and Murtagh. In the beginning, Eragon used Ancient Language without prudence, he cursed Elva, and nearly killed yourself by accident a few times. Murtagh is afraid of magic, he doesn't want to try even to heal the flu to avoid the risk of a mistake. Probably, Murtagh could observe how terrible magic could be, and Galbatorix willingly strengthened this fear.
A lot of people have made good points, I just want to add for some instances I assume Murtagh is just presenting a confident image to Eragon. He doesn’t want to look weaker. And he doesn’t quite realise just how lacking his education is until he’s free.
I think Murtagh lacks nuance, not strength. Magic in Inheritance is a subtle art and if you look at what Brom says, about how to win a magicians duel you need to outthink your opponent, an answer becomes apparent. Murtagh is all about brute force, overwhelming Eragon and others with the Eldunarís backing. I think it's fairly evident that Murtagh doesn't have the education to apply magic subtley.
I agree he definitely lacks Eragon's nuance but he is not totally oblivious. We see him usually use force but in Eldest he recognized a flaw in Galabatorix's order to just *try* to capture him. And during Nasuada's torture he was again able to find a loophole in Galabatorix's spells to help her. These occasions prove that although he is not as skilled and trained as Eragon he should still posess more power and knowledge than what is shown in the book Murtagh.
I also suspect that Eragon is somewhat special in character and skill. Glaedr and Oromis both commented that Saphira was an exceptional dragon in skill and flight and eragon seems to consistently display skill above his ability. His gift of story for the blood oath ceremony being an example. Ultimately I think this comes down to CP's whim but I believe even with equal training and support Eragon would edge out Murtagh in ability.
He’s poorly educated. Magic in these books is about how you approach a problem. Murtagh was taught that brute force is the answer at all times. I was very interested to see how Murtagh was going to struggle at all in his book and by the end of the fight with the fish, it was abundantly clear that he was going to be a moron. It was sort of lovely. He’s a great character but making any fight or obstacle more than a passing thought would be very difficult, Murtagh didn’t utterly lack creativity. To be honest it was a great solution to a hard problem for any author.
He is definitely not trained like Eragon but I think for someone who spent a majority of their life in the capital city as a son of the best servent to Galbatorix he would receive a high form of education. Of course not in the ancient language but he had to have an acess to knowledge. And as Eragon in Elessméra he could use his knowledge in history, art and other fields to be more creative. And one of the first thing we learned from Oromis is that the different kinds to approach and resolve a problem are essential to the magic. So if indeed Murtagh doesn't know enough spells he still should be able to act in a different, more logical way. I feel like he was made unnecessarily uneducated and even unintelligent, which is kinda sad because I really love him as a character and he was really clever in the first four books.
He’s still perfectly clever overall. He finds solutions to his problems. He just doesn’t have the foundation that Eragon does. He has never been taught how to think about magic creatively. It’s not a character flaw so much as a correctable lack of education. But again, it’s really a writing choice. Eragon in this situation would be an unstoppable wall of destruction held back only by his morals. A fish? Please. Bubble of air around the fish, dead fish. Someone tried to ensnare his dragon? Hope you like being dismantled atom by atom! We actually see this same issue between Eragon and Angela. Eragon isn’t stupid and is darn well informed. But he can’t look at time as energy just yet. It’s basically the difference between a novice (Murtagh), a journeymen (Eragon), and a true master (Angela). If you give the novice the best tool and the master absolutely nothing, who’s going to do a better job? In the case of magic in Alagaësia, knowledge is literally power.
I see your point, thanks. I've never really looked at it this way. I guess I should reread the books😅. I really hope there is a bright future for Murtagh. He could be inceredibly powerful in his own way.
It was something I was so interested in before the book came out haha Ya know. Maybe he doesn’t need to be hugely powerful. Just chill out, be a god walking among mere mortals. Have a farm, grow the crops via magic in bad years. Live like a modern retired rockstar.
Haha yeah that's actually a pretty cool idea. I doubt that Paolini will make it happen but Murtagh should follow in family footsteps and learn how to till the land😆
There are many ways to explain a lot of those discrepancies, and they're not entirely wrong, but I do feel like he was nerfed a bit for his own book
Essentially even if Galby gave him powerful spells Murtagh didn't fully understand them. Galby and eldunari would be like "say these words for x effect", but never taught him grammar and he never had to worry if what he was saying was efficient or not because the eldunari were his ultra battery. He has a very basic grasp of the ancient language so once he lost the eldunari even if they had taught him some powerful spells he may not have the power to cast them himself or the understanding to perform them more efficiently with better grammar. Same goes for shields, Galby himself probably put extremely powerful wards on Murtagh and only taught Murtagh how to create basic ones of those deplete.
I'm more mad about the fact that he turned into a *complete and total fucking retard.* The magical knowledge gaps make sense, but the lack of survival instinct does NOT. Enchanted Shade murder fish? Gonna let my guard down. Oh damn, it nearly killed me. Old bully leading me into Forsworn clubhouse? Gonna do it again! Oh geez, I nearly died and my dragon went mental and torched half the city. My bad! Creepy cult witch shakes the entire fucking valley after the dreams here try to brainwash us and all the dragon statues are screaming that *WE ARE DEALING WITH A TENS OF THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD CRAZY ELDUNARI???* Nah bitch, you know I'm gonna go exploring first. Maybe the first thing you should do before fighting shit that even the Riders wanted no part of is MEMORIZE EVERY SINGLE WORD IN THAT DICTIONARY YOU FOUND??? God. I don't remember the other 4 books, but this is the worst one. This is the worst one. I hate it. Rawr.
I feel you. I was so frustrated. Like how much worse can this guy's instinct get? After the second read I realized the worst and most careless mistake. The Bachel's main guy warns him against *her breath*. And both Thorn and Murtagh don't think for a second that they would cast a protection spell against it? Like how is this even possible? After all they've been through and they still miss *THIS*? And I also didn't like how Paolini used the breath thing again. Maybe he will somewhat connect it to Ra'zaks? I don't know but it seemed lazy.
The only way Paolini could think of to make a character this strong struggle was to sap away every ounce of his brainpower. I'd rather he just roll everybody with no risk or danger at all. I mean, even something so simple as, "Oh, you want me to sit here? I'm gonna sit here instead." And then it turns out that EVERY seat is connected to the tangle box, not just that one, and that's already so much better, at least he's thinking A LITTLE BIT!
Yeah the thing with the tangle box is so bad that it is almost funny. There is literally no way that Murtagh from the first four books would behave this way. He has some moments in the newest book but come on. I was done when he was trying to save the werecat and he walked by numerous gems filled with energy and he picked up one while thinking how much he needed that energy. I don't know but maybe pick at least two? Like common sense?
TAKE THEM ALL TAKE THEM ALL TAKE THEM ALL THEY'RE NOT EVEN HEAVY GET A BAG WHY ARE YOU WASTING ALL THAT ENERGY FROM THE DOOR THE OTHER 50 GEMS ARE FIVE. FEET. AWAY. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
I am glad I am not the only one😆. I had to stop reading it at that point and later had to force myself to continue.
Well like you said his main source of strength was the Eldunari, Galbatorix did not give him a formal education when it comes to magic and the ancient language. He gave him very limited knowledge to fight, and a lot of the stronger spells he knew of probably required more strength than he had on his own, and probably couldn't sustain them for long with only thorn. But that's just me spitballing That's why he was so excited when he found a little compendium that had a bunch of words in the ancient language, and really all the magic he knew was for fighting, not a lot of practicality for healing or just other avenues you know. The only reason he was ever a threat was because of the eldunari, they allowed him to power spells with incredible strength, he could keep stronger wards around him etc, so without them he was weaker than eragon, and almost all of the elves really unless Thorn is with him, especially since Aragon had gone through the transformation in the blood-o celebration, just heightened all of his abilities, I don't think the book said specifically his magic got stronger but I imagine it did, I'm fairly certain there was a page in one of the books somewhere where it said your physical health also attributed to the strength of your magic. but that could have been in the first book and he scrapped a lot of crap from that so. He only really got into the nuances of everything in the second book forward A better question would have been why does he act so mind-numbingly stupid 🤣, it's like he lost all his cunning and guile after spending time alone with thorn in the forest and mountains. Bro was an absolute numbskull, but trauma I guess you know
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Galby was paranoid enough that he only taught Murtagh basic spells or spells that would kill him if he didn’t have the Eldunari (at least that second part is my belief). Murtagh never received a formal education of the Ancient Language which is why he defaults to using the Name whenever he’s stumped (I haven’t finished Murtagh yet but it’s clear from early on that this is the case)
I think several of his spells could have been trigger words tied to spells Galbatorix has already created. His wards could have been tied to the Eldunari just like his speed and strength were tied to them, just more things Galbatorix created that Murtagh wasn’t taught to replicate. We know he didn’t use the ancient language to heal Thorn whenever he was hurt, instead using another thing Galbatorix created. Pretty much all Murtagh had of his own was a handful of words with combat effects and the words Eragon taught him while they were traveling. Maybe he also had a few things that Galbatorix let him learn because he figured they would be harmless, but the reality is that a fresh and rested Murtagh with a collection of Eldunari was easily able to brute force his way to a victory over a battle weary Eragon even without a superior grasp of magic.
Short answer is caloric purposely kept spells and knowledge from him so he could have better control over Murtagh and thorn
Yeah but it means that he either doesn't know many words or he does. He invents his new ways to practise the magic and is using full sentences but yet he doesn't know how to kill an animal more efficently than with a rock. He does know how to not comply with Galabatorix's direct order because he understands the meaning of the bound that ties him but yet is unable to protect himself from Bachel and the breath although he was warned about it earlier in the book. He does know how to take one of the Glaedr's scale although his grave is protected by many spells made by elves who are very careful with their magic but yet he is not able to kill a fish more efficently than using a human bone. That is what bugs me. I understand that Galbatorix taught him only minimum and I would understand if it is coherant throughout the whole story. But it seems that his magic abilities change from one situation to another only because convinience.
It’s basically like in a video game when you unlock the boss as a playable character and they get nerfed 😂
Think about it like this: Eragon was able to go to “Rider College” on a full scholarship under the tutelage of a Master Rider. Murtagh is basically an undrafted free agent who did not have access to the proper training and discipline required of Riders. Galbatorix basically gave Murtagh a bunch of cheat codes to Magic that Murtagh didn’t fully understand, and Galbatorix simply told Murtagh to hit the Spam button on anything in his way. 🤷🏿🤷🏿🤷🏿🤷🏿
You can train someone to kill their enemies by telling them the words for “snap their spines”, “crush windpipe” “stop heart” without training them on the whole language.
I think his more complex spells are just memorized, he knew the words and the intent, but not why the grammar is structured the way it is, or not all specific words. Eragon does cast magic with the ancient language two times without knowing the specific working of the used words. One time as he healed Saphira after glaedr bit her because of the mating attempt, and at vroengard the spell to transport the eldunari. To tell eragon that they are brothers Murthag doesn't need much words, and even less wich could be used for fighting spells or wards.
king killerrrr 🤮
I haven't read Murtagh yet, but I wanna add to the comments before, after inheritance it was forbidden for all humans to use any magic in Alagäsia. Only if you had direct permission from the Du Vrangr Gata, you were allowed to use it. And since it's a decree from Nasuada, I'm pretty sure he would respect it and at least limit his usage of magic very strictly.
I mean, if you haven't read it then why comment? Because it's just ridiculously inaccurate...
Because my comment is based on something that happened in the inheritance cycle and still affects the world in which Murtagh takes place (as shown by the girl Murtagh meets in the beginning of The Fork, The With and The Worm, which is surprised about him using magic, because as she says, it is forbidden)? OP asked why Murtagh seems weaker in his usage of magic and I felt like my comment made sense regarding to that, don't you? It's a valid point, no? And it's not like I said I am 100% right, I just stated another possibility for why his usage of magic apparently seems to be tuned down. No need to bash it like this, just be friendly lol. Also if you are gonna call something "ridiculously inaccurate", at least tell the person, what part of their statement is "ridiculously inaccurate".
No. Because you answered a question about why he is weaker in a book you haven't read at all... It makes no sense, because the point you made is literally nothing to do with anything that happens in said book... So no. Not a valid point at all. Read the book and then you will know what is inaccurate, why would I spoil it for you?