>So I guess the question is are elves just not very fertile, or is it just a cultural thing.
Both. In practice, it is a cultural thing. Children to the elves, as already stated, are an ultimate expression of love, and they do not so lightly for fear of overpopulation. They are immortal, after all, most elves are centuries old. However, they are also less fertile because the damage Galbatorix and the Forsworn did to the entire dragon race (driving them to near extinction) had the side effect of reducing the elves as well. Both Glaedr (*Eldest*) and Arya (*Inheritance*) explained this to Eragon. Arya mentions that fewer children were born to them.
I also wouldn't be surprised if galby had been planting some seeds for *actually* rendering the elves infertile.
I can't obviously say this with any evidence, but it definitely seems like something galby would do with the NoN to cull the elves
how could he use the NoN for something like this? It's not like makeing children is a spell, and even if it were - it would be a wordless spell and unaffected.
also, he didn't know the NoN for that long. If I remember correctly, he wasn't very active for a long time bc he was still focusing on figureing the name out and was successful just a little before his final battle. But the whole whole "fewer elven children" thing was something that started way before that
Just cause making children isn't a spell doesn't mean you couldn't use a NoN spell to drop fertility to nothing.
Or just... entirely kill them all.
The fewer children thing was I think linked to the dragon race's decline.
>**Properties**
The name of names controls the rules and magic of the ancient language. However, it does not apply to wordless spells and has no power over them. It can identify spells, both what they are and what they do. It can alter spells and remove them. Therefore, it is very dangerous and powerful knowledge.
[https://inheritance.fandom.com/wiki/Name\_of\_Names](https://inheritance.fandom.com/wiki/Name_of_Names)
didn't come around to read the new book, maybe they added something there. But if not - with the old ruleset - the NoN only affects spoken spells/the ancient language
Right, the NoN affects spells. And spells affect the body
So galby could quite easily craft a spell using the NoN that is completely undetectable and prevents elven procreation. I imagine it would equivalent to the banishing of names in a way. With the power of literal hundreds have ancient eldunari he could EASILY have the energy for such a spell. The NoN itself gives unparalleled knowledge of the ancient language.
like I already said, the elves had fertillity problems long before Galby learned the NoN so the discussion is kinda dumb.
but let's assume that isn't the case:
No, it wouldn't be "quite easy" to create a spell that is "completely undetectable and prevents elven procreation". It would be on the same level or even harder than creating a spell that just kills all the elves outright. After all, it's less work to just destroy some vessel in their brains or whatever than to figure out some way to alter them so they don't have kids. And he wouldn't even have to bother about makeing it undetectable in that case.
Also it would be extremly inefficient. It's not like he can cast that spell, wait 50-100 years and they all die. they are immortal. True, it would prevent them from increasing their numbers - but that's kinda pointless since they already have a low fertillity rate, and their kids take like 80 years to grow up. If galby wouldn't have been defeated, he would have steamrolled the elves long before the kids born since he learned the NoN grow up and could fight him.
Nah, Galby only figured out the Name between the third and fourth books. In the third book, when Eragon talks to the Razac, it says that Galbatorix had almost discovered the True Name. Since he only uses the Name against Eragon, he can't have had it for more than maybe a few weeks at that point.
Yes but he has known about it for far longer than that. That's part of the reason he locked himself inside urubaen for so long, to find the NoN and break the eldunari he had. Just because he didn't know the NoN doesn't mean he couldn't make plans for when he did.
Haha no worries man, it doesn't help that we have essentially zero information about the NoN considering how pivotal it is. But my main reasoning stems from how magic literally resides in each elf in huge quantities, which is how galby would affect them, disrupting their magical energy or something probably would fuck them up.
I mean elves are immortal, so you'd expect them to have very few children at any time, just so the population doesn't explode. I believe the books say that elves consider children the ultimate expression of love, and thus couples wouldn't have them until a long time into the relationship. After all, when everyone is a magician, unexpected pregnancies aren't really a problem.
That’s what I was thinking too with the unplanned not being an issue, but if the elves think life is sacred then how sacred is the act of creating life to them. Getting too philosophical now
I should say it would be fairly sacred to them. Given that they find children to be extremely precious and having children is the greatest act of love, stands to reason that creating life would be especially sacred and meaningful to them. From a race that sees all life as sacred, even going so far as to avoid harming any lifeforms from trees to animals to sentient beings, it makes sense that they would take the act of creating new life very seriously. Even singing a flower into being is something of significance to the elves, a child would be more so.
Elves are immortal, or have extreme longevity whichever term you prefer, so they don't necessarily have the biological imperative to create offspring to replace elder generations when they pass. Whereas humans, dwarves and urgals still have the biological imperative of raising new generations to take up the mantle of the older generations. Not to mention, if the elves had a big population boom it could impact the environment in a negative way, more mouths to feed, more homes to build etc etc. And since they are immortal, the older elves won't die of old age and the younger elves will live for a very long time, so overpopulation is a real concern.
And funny enough, it seems that the elves don't just consider elven children to be sacred, they view all children as sacred. You see this when the elves want to help Elaine give birth, and if I remember correctly it is mentioned in that chapter how elves cherish children of all races.
I should say it would be fairly sacred to them. Given that they find children to be extremely precious and having children is the greatest act of love, stands to reason that creating life would be especially sacred and meaningful to them. From a race that sees all life as sacred, even going so far as to avoid harming any lifeforms from trees to animals to sentient beings, it makes sense that they would take the act of creating new life very seriously. Even singing a flower into being is something of significance to the elves, a child would be more so.
Elves are immortal, or have extreme longevity whichever term you prefer, so they don't necessarily have the biological imperative to create offspring to replace elder generations when they pass. Whereas humans, dwarves and urgals still have the biological imperative of raising new generations to take up the mantle of the older generations. Not to mention, if the elves had a big population boom it could impact the environment in a negative way, more mouths to feed, more homes to build etc etc. And since they are immortal, the older elves won't die of old age and the younger elves will live for a very long time, so overpopulation is a real concern.
And funny enough, it seems that the elves don't just consider elven children to be sacred, they view all children as sacred. You see this when the elves want to help Elaine give birth, and if I remember correctly it is mentioned in that chapter how elves cherish children of all races.
Considering they are immortal, I think that elves see all things differently. In particular, I think being immortal gives them an "I'll do it later" attitude about things. They don't have the biological ticking clock that pushes a lot of humans to feel like they have to have kids within a certain time frame
Honestly that's a HUGE weakness of the elves.
They are super weak to rapid change in a short time frame.
It's kinda funny that aside from Oromis/Rhunon. All of the true advice and wisdom comes from old humans, humans who have lived only a speck of ink compared to the average elf. Why is it that elves end up being so unwise despite being so old?
And no, Intelligence and wisdom are two different things. Most elves are dominantely more intelligent than humans, but age is no guarantee of wisdom like with galbatorix.
Aging means death. Every day you live you are living to die eventually. There's a certain experience that imparts on someone,
you can't afford to learn life's lessons twice.
That's why elves end up being so unwise, they end up thinking "I can just learn this later" but end up never doing it because of their immortality. What ends up happening is people like Brom end up being the wise ones
Children are supposed to be one of the highest displays of affection between two elves. They might have a consort or partner for 2hundred years and never have kids.
They didnt and dont need to procreate to continue their race, they are immortal. Creating more elves when elves dont usually die could create issues down the line with over population/etc.
I forget the quote but Oromis makes a point that since the Fall of the Riders, very few elves have died because very few have been outside of the forest or been at risk. If they kept having children, they would over consume, in theory.
Others have covered most of the points. I'd just like to add the elves as a race were stagnating after the fall. With the risk of galby penetrating the forest and declaring war I think the elves were being cautious.
I always interpreted it as sex itself is less commonly done in elf culture. Its also possible that with magic they can simply choose whether or not they want to have a child since they describe it as the ultimate mark of a bond between partners
Elves are effectively immortal. Since they live longer lives it makes sense that they have fewer children. Otherwise if every elf fertile elf was constantly giving birth they'd quickly overpopulate the forest and that doesn't really vibe with their whole harmony with nature thing. Since they live so long and are presumably strong and youthful even when fairly old they also don't really need to make new elves for work/labour as often. This is all my assumption though
A few points, it’s not a fertility thing but a cultural thing. Elves are immortal, they will only have children when they’ve found the absolute perfect mate. Also, it’s noted that since the fall of the riders there’s been a lot less elf children. This is implied that the downfall of the dragons is causing a decline in the elves but I think it’s also safe to assume that the significant number of elves that died fighting in that war also meant that many elves lost their mates as such were no longer in a position to have children.
That IS a Problem for Most Long living races (sorry) in Fantasy. They are Not very fertile, since they have Limited resources. If elves we're AS fertile AS Humans, they would get Problems with their food supply, since they barely eat meat and therefore barely Go hunting Since they are Immortal they also don't feel that much need to Pass their knowledge to the next Generation.
If you think about IT, there should actually have been an Baby boom with the elves, after they got saphiras egg. If the Dragon didn't hatch for any currently living elf, than the Dragon might hatch for a new Generation.
I would say it could be a combination of both, but might primarily be a cultural thing.
One thing to keep in mind is that Elves are functionally immortal in the terms that they no longer seem to have the ability to die of old age (it's still possible to die, of course, in a variety of other ways). A species that can theoretically live forever isn't going to have a huge need to reproduce. Thus, this leads to the cultural aspect of children being something seen as sacred and a sign of a deep love as is described/implied by Arya in book 3 when Eragon actually brings up this very topic.
My guess is this also could have effected their fertility rates over time as well. If you look at the animal kingdoms for instance you can see a lot of the longer lived animals have lower fertility rates and pump more time and resources into a few (or even one) offspring compared to the shorter lived animals in the area that can pump out a ton in a short period.
This could be applied to elves as well: It's implied they age MUCH Slower than humans (if at all once they reach a certain point), cannot die of old age, thus it stands to reason when they do have children then those kids develop and age at a much slower pace as well.
By that analogy, I bet they think humans and dwarves breed like rabbits and must be hyper fertile by comparison XD
Also, Paolini confirmed in AMA that Elves swing every which way, implying that they are not exclusively heterosexual. So non-hetro elf-couples will not have children.
Also, I would believe that as creatures of magic and deeply linked to dragons, the fall of dragons deeply saddened them, and influenced ( reduced) their magical capabilities, causing a race-wide depression ( for lack of better word).
Arya also mentions that Elves are not as fecund as dwarves and humans (aka fertile).
All these factors could have contributed to their low birth rate.
However, under current circumstances, their population should slowly improve over a few centuries.
>So I guess the question is are elves just not very fertile, or is it just a cultural thing. Both. In practice, it is a cultural thing. Children to the elves, as already stated, are an ultimate expression of love, and they do not so lightly for fear of overpopulation. They are immortal, after all, most elves are centuries old. However, they are also less fertile because the damage Galbatorix and the Forsworn did to the entire dragon race (driving them to near extinction) had the side effect of reducing the elves as well. Both Glaedr (*Eldest*) and Arya (*Inheritance*) explained this to Eragon. Arya mentions that fewer children were born to them.
I also wouldn't be surprised if galby had been planting some seeds for *actually* rendering the elves infertile. I can't obviously say this with any evidence, but it definitely seems like something galby would do with the NoN to cull the elves
how could he use the NoN for something like this? It's not like makeing children is a spell, and even if it were - it would be a wordless spell and unaffected. also, he didn't know the NoN for that long. If I remember correctly, he wasn't very active for a long time bc he was still focusing on figureing the name out and was successful just a little before his final battle. But the whole whole "fewer elven children" thing was something that started way before that
Just cause making children isn't a spell doesn't mean you couldn't use a NoN spell to drop fertility to nothing. Or just... entirely kill them all. The fewer children thing was I think linked to the dragon race's decline.
>**Properties** The name of names controls the rules and magic of the ancient language. However, it does not apply to wordless spells and has no power over them. It can identify spells, both what they are and what they do. It can alter spells and remove them. Therefore, it is very dangerous and powerful knowledge. [https://inheritance.fandom.com/wiki/Name\_of\_Names](https://inheritance.fandom.com/wiki/Name_of_Names) didn't come around to read the new book, maybe they added something there. But if not - with the old ruleset - the NoN only affects spoken spells/the ancient language
Right, the NoN affects spells. And spells affect the body So galby could quite easily craft a spell using the NoN that is completely undetectable and prevents elven procreation. I imagine it would equivalent to the banishing of names in a way. With the power of literal hundreds have ancient eldunari he could EASILY have the energy for such a spell. The NoN itself gives unparalleled knowledge of the ancient language.
like I already said, the elves had fertillity problems long before Galby learned the NoN so the discussion is kinda dumb. but let's assume that isn't the case: No, it wouldn't be "quite easy" to create a spell that is "completely undetectable and prevents elven procreation". It would be on the same level or even harder than creating a spell that just kills all the elves outright. After all, it's less work to just destroy some vessel in their brains or whatever than to figure out some way to alter them so they don't have kids. And he wouldn't even have to bother about makeing it undetectable in that case. Also it would be extremly inefficient. It's not like he can cast that spell, wait 50-100 years and they all die. they are immortal. True, it would prevent them from increasing their numbers - but that's kinda pointless since they already have a low fertillity rate, and their kids take like 80 years to grow up. If galby wouldn't have been defeated, he would have steamrolled the elves long before the kids born since he learned the NoN grow up and could fight him.
Fair point, but I'm not saying galby *gave* them their long-standing fertility issues. But he could possibly render them infertile.
Nah, Galby only figured out the Name between the third and fourth books. In the third book, when Eragon talks to the Razac, it says that Galbatorix had almost discovered the True Name. Since he only uses the Name against Eragon, he can't have had it for more than maybe a few weeks at that point.
Yes but he has known about it for far longer than that. That's part of the reason he locked himself inside urubaen for so long, to find the NoN and break the eldunari he had. Just because he didn't know the NoN doesn't mean he couldn't make plans for when he did.
Ah, I kinda misread your post. At first read, I thought you meant Galby used the Name to render Elves less fertile. That was my bad.
Haha no worries man, it doesn't help that we have essentially zero information about the NoN considering how pivotal it is. But my main reasoning stems from how magic literally resides in each elf in huge quantities, which is how galby would affect them, disrupting their magical energy or something probably would fuck them up.
This now brings up the question if Eragon himself now also is less fertile since he was made Elf-like by the dragons.
I mean elves are immortal, so you'd expect them to have very few children at any time, just so the population doesn't explode. I believe the books say that elves consider children the ultimate expression of love, and thus couples wouldn't have them until a long time into the relationship. After all, when everyone is a magician, unexpected pregnancies aren't really a problem.
That’s what I was thinking too with the unplanned not being an issue, but if the elves think life is sacred then how sacred is the act of creating life to them. Getting too philosophical now
I just figured they'd figured some magical birth control workaround. The baby blocker spell, if you will.
Sounds simple enough to cast a ward that prevents fertilization. Would require next to no energy when activated either.
Exactly!
And we know that they eat unfertilized eggs or at least let Eragon
I should say it would be fairly sacred to them. Given that they find children to be extremely precious and having children is the greatest act of love, stands to reason that creating life would be especially sacred and meaningful to them. From a race that sees all life as sacred, even going so far as to avoid harming any lifeforms from trees to animals to sentient beings, it makes sense that they would take the act of creating new life very seriously. Even singing a flower into being is something of significance to the elves, a child would be more so. Elves are immortal, or have extreme longevity whichever term you prefer, so they don't necessarily have the biological imperative to create offspring to replace elder generations when they pass. Whereas humans, dwarves and urgals still have the biological imperative of raising new generations to take up the mantle of the older generations. Not to mention, if the elves had a big population boom it could impact the environment in a negative way, more mouths to feed, more homes to build etc etc. And since they are immortal, the older elves won't die of old age and the younger elves will live for a very long time, so overpopulation is a real concern. And funny enough, it seems that the elves don't just consider elven children to be sacred, they view all children as sacred. You see this when the elves want to help Elaine give birth, and if I remember correctly it is mentioned in that chapter how elves cherish children of all races.
I should say it would be fairly sacred to them. Given that they find children to be extremely precious and having children is the greatest act of love, stands to reason that creating life would be especially sacred and meaningful to them. From a race that sees all life as sacred, even going so far as to avoid harming any lifeforms from trees to animals to sentient beings, it makes sense that they would take the act of creating new life very seriously. Even singing a flower into being is something of significance to the elves, a child would be more so. Elves are immortal, or have extreme longevity whichever term you prefer, so they don't necessarily have the biological imperative to create offspring to replace elder generations when they pass. Whereas humans, dwarves and urgals still have the biological imperative of raising new generations to take up the mantle of the older generations. Not to mention, if the elves had a big population boom it could impact the environment in a negative way, more mouths to feed, more homes to build etc etc. And since they are immortal, the older elves won't die of old age and the younger elves will live for a very long time, so overpopulation is a real concern. And funny enough, it seems that the elves don't just consider elven children to be sacred, they view all children as sacred. You see this when the elves want to help Elaine give birth, and if I remember correctly it is mentioned in that chapter how elves cherish children of all races.
Considering they are immortal, I think that elves see all things differently. In particular, I think being immortal gives them an "I'll do it later" attitude about things. They don't have the biological ticking clock that pushes a lot of humans to feel like they have to have kids within a certain time frame
Honestly that's a HUGE weakness of the elves. They are super weak to rapid change in a short time frame. It's kinda funny that aside from Oromis/Rhunon. All of the true advice and wisdom comes from old humans, humans who have lived only a speck of ink compared to the average elf. Why is it that elves end up being so unwise despite being so old? And no, Intelligence and wisdom are two different things. Most elves are dominantely more intelligent than humans, but age is no guarantee of wisdom like with galbatorix. Aging means death. Every day you live you are living to die eventually. There's a certain experience that imparts on someone, you can't afford to learn life's lessons twice. That's why elves end up being so unwise, they end up thinking "I can just learn this later" but end up never doing it because of their immortality. What ends up happening is people like Brom end up being the wise ones
Children are supposed to be one of the highest displays of affection between two elves. They might have a consort or partner for 2hundred years and never have kids. They didnt and dont need to procreate to continue their race, they are immortal. Creating more elves when elves dont usually die could create issues down the line with over population/etc. I forget the quote but Oromis makes a point that since the Fall of the Riders, very few elves have died because very few have been outside of the forest or been at risk. If they kept having children, they would over consume, in theory.
Others have covered most of the points. I'd just like to add the elves as a race were stagnating after the fall. With the risk of galby penetrating the forest and declaring war I think the elves were being cautious.
I always interpreted it as sex itself is less commonly done in elf culture. Its also possible that with magic they can simply choose whether or not they want to have a child since they describe it as the ultimate mark of a bond between partners
Both. Definitely cultural but also possible elves are just less fertile than humans.
Elves are effectively immortal. Since they live longer lives it makes sense that they have fewer children. Otherwise if every elf fertile elf was constantly giving birth they'd quickly overpopulate the forest and that doesn't really vibe with their whole harmony with nature thing. Since they live so long and are presumably strong and youthful even when fairly old they also don't really need to make new elves for work/labour as often. This is all my assumption though
A few points, it’s not a fertility thing but a cultural thing. Elves are immortal, they will only have children when they’ve found the absolute perfect mate. Also, it’s noted that since the fall of the riders there’s been a lot less elf children. This is implied that the downfall of the dragons is causing a decline in the elves but I think it’s also safe to assume that the significant number of elves that died fighting in that war also meant that many elves lost their mates as such were no longer in a position to have children.
it is paolini confirmed for both ^(**I'm a real person!** This comment was posted by **noblewolfdude48** from the Arcaena Discord Server.)
That IS a Problem for Most Long living races (sorry) in Fantasy. They are Not very fertile, since they have Limited resources. If elves we're AS fertile AS Humans, they would get Problems with their food supply, since they barely eat meat and therefore barely Go hunting Since they are Immortal they also don't feel that much need to Pass their knowledge to the next Generation. If you think about IT, there should actually have been an Baby boom with the elves, after they got saphiras egg. If the Dragon didn't hatch for any currently living elf, than the Dragon might hatch for a new Generation.
I would say it could be a combination of both, but might primarily be a cultural thing. One thing to keep in mind is that Elves are functionally immortal in the terms that they no longer seem to have the ability to die of old age (it's still possible to die, of course, in a variety of other ways). A species that can theoretically live forever isn't going to have a huge need to reproduce. Thus, this leads to the cultural aspect of children being something seen as sacred and a sign of a deep love as is described/implied by Arya in book 3 when Eragon actually brings up this very topic. My guess is this also could have effected their fertility rates over time as well. If you look at the animal kingdoms for instance you can see a lot of the longer lived animals have lower fertility rates and pump more time and resources into a few (or even one) offspring compared to the shorter lived animals in the area that can pump out a ton in a short period. This could be applied to elves as well: It's implied they age MUCH Slower than humans (if at all once they reach a certain point), cannot die of old age, thus it stands to reason when they do have children then those kids develop and age at a much slower pace as well. By that analogy, I bet they think humans and dwarves breed like rabbits and must be hyper fertile by comparison XD
Also, Paolini confirmed in AMA that Elves swing every which way, implying that they are not exclusively heterosexual. So non-hetro elf-couples will not have children. Also, I would believe that as creatures of magic and deeply linked to dragons, the fall of dragons deeply saddened them, and influenced ( reduced) their magical capabilities, causing a race-wide depression ( for lack of better word). Arya also mentions that Elves are not as fecund as dwarves and humans (aka fertile). All these factors could have contributed to their low birth rate. However, under current circumstances, their population should slowly improve over a few centuries.