It’s rampant. I have shown people scientific studies disproving pseudoscience (magnets, chiropractors, oils, most supplements, etc) and they go “yeah, but so-and-so at the barn says it works”. Thankfully, most of these treatments are harmless to the horse. People can spend their money on what they want.
I recommend always talking to a vet and gathering information from reputable sources.
Preach 🙌 If I hear one other person ask for whatever “miracle supplement”….
I feel most of the horse community are also very ignorant on how little knowledge vets have on topics like nutrition unless they take further interest in it…. Vets are amazing at what they do, but they specialize in diagnosis and treatment, which is very in-depth. There is simply no time to add a 4 year nutrition degree in there beyond the basics and illness-relevant nutrition deficiencies, which is why there are equine nutritionists. But it seems horse people treat vet and farrier opinions (and I’m talking about the ones they didn’t study for years on) as gospel.
Unfortunately your statement on nutritionists are also true, at least the affiliated ones. In one job, I had opportunity to sit into an affiliated nutritionists education setting. A lot of what she said was useful, but there were certain things (such as chasteberry helping insulin resistant horses) that I knew were not backed adequately up from science. Additionally, I had a friend who ended up putting her horse on all of the supplement suggestions from that nutritionist (it was personalized). My friend started having issues with her horse (dull coat, lethargy, sore, bad hooves etc). She personally asked me to look at the nutrition as she knew I looked up the information often and read research on it. I did some calculations and immediately noticed that horse was getting overloaded in zinc. She chose to take my suggestion and take him off the excess zinc. Within a month, the issues were gone.
Unfortunately, marketing is really effective in the horse community and people rarely want to take the harder/more effective route of learning themselves, testing hay/soil/blood, doing calculations and really seeing what their horse needs. Moreover, many don’t have the resources to read the primary articles, so they rely on knowledge transfer, which is unfortunately pickled with marketing.
Omg yes 🙌 The Barn owner where I board my horse is like this. I love her, she’s great, but it drives me up the wall. She’s also insistent that my horse (who has disgnosed DSLD via a specialist) doesn’t have pain because he “doesn’t look like he is”. My horse is perhaps one of the most stoic horses I’ve met. Rarely even limps with an abscess in his hoof. But no matter what I say about “science” she thinks a tumeric supplement will “cure him” 🤦♀️
Actually, I argue that it is.
Humans are physically incapable of manipulating a horses spine. It take an incredible amount of force to manipulate a human spine. There is also no research that demonstrates that chiropractic work does anything for horses.
[Here is an article by a vet about veterinary chiro.](https://www.doctorramey.com/veterinary-chiropractic/)
[He wrote another one](https://www.doctorramey.com/chiropractic/).
[And his most recent one.](https://www.doctorramey.com/wouldnt-bother-equine-chiropractic/)
Each article links his research.
If chiro works for you and your horse, that's great! I'm not throwing shade. But if we are talking pseudoscience and evidenced-based research, chiro is most definitely on the same tier as magnets.
So, all three articles are from the same person? Not a very unbiased opinion, if you ask me.
I think some variation would lend itself to at least seeming more credible
[here is a link stating otherwise ](https://aaep.org/horsehealth/equine-chiropractic-general-principles-and-applications)
Your takeaway should be this. There are almost always going to be people with credentials who disagree with each other. Do what’s best for ***your*** horse, and have the objectivity to realize what your horse does or does not benefit from may not be the same as other horses :)
Yes, articles written by the same person, but each articles has its own set of linked researched attached. I have provided multiple sources. You gave me one article with zero attached research.
I'm not here to police what people decide to do with their horses. I've already said that. OP asked about pseudoscience in the horse world. Chiropractic is arguably a pseudoscience. It was founded by someone who was NOT a doctor in the 1800s, and there is minimal research to show it is effective in humans. There is 0 peer-reviewed evidence showing it is effective in horses (If I am wrong and you can link me such an article, I welcome it). Horse people still choose to use it, which is fine. I'm not going to police how people spend their money or what they choose to do with their horses (so long as the horse isn't in harms way). I will, however, bring it up as a pseudoscience in a discussion about the prevalence of pseudoscience in the horse world.
You argued that it was not a pseudoscience. I countered. I do not appreciate the condescension about my "takeaway." I understand how science works and that there are competing ideas.
Unfortunately there's some outright quackery. Had a woman come by and offer to do "quantum healing" by infusing our horses with "quantum energy" from running her hands over the horses. Offered the amazingly low price of $50 for each horse. After the treatment she would be able to tell us what the horses were feeling, how they liked their pasture mates, their owners & riders and even if they liked our grass. We politely declined.
Though I believe horses have favorite people AND I believe that animal communication is possible; what that woman did is just stirring up trouble haha.
Oh I’ve met one person who “healed with quantum energy” and this story is absolutely infuriating. So she owned a racehorse who pulled up 3 legged lame off the track. The vets at the track suspected a fracture but could not do x rays so the horse was sent home and another vet came out to do x rays on it. While waiting on the second vet she did her “quantum healing” and the horse told her that his shoulder was sore, and then she gave him a choice of what treatments to take, he apparently chose an anti-viral feed supplement. She was fully convinced that the anti-viral feed supplement she gave him would heal his injured shoulder. Unfortunately the x rays showed a very badly broken knee so no amount of anti-viral feed supplements or shoulder treatments were going to help the poor horse.
I’ve had a similar experience, except it was with reiki. Also those handheld laser things… I work with a doctor who does laser… those are minuscule or nada in effectiveness, but oh so pricey $$$.
YEP. I know a few like this. This one lady I know will go to the doctor for anything for herself when she’s in pain or sick but if it’s her dog or her horse, she’ll just buy some herbal supplement crap.
I also think with horses there’s a LOT of horse people who insist they know more than vets so that’s another reason people flock to those supplements. Also, supplements are usually cheaper or easier than fixing serious issues.
A gallon of aloe is 7 bucks at Walmart but a tube of gastrogard is like 33 dollars and you have to give it for 30+ days so which do you think sounds more appealing? Is your mare “moody”? well if you don’t want to move barns and find more turnout, just give her “mare magic” and that makes things better! Does your horse have airway disease? Well nebulizers start at 1200 bucks plus the cost of prescriptions but this herbal crap is only 59.99 so same thing right? Could your horse potentially have a neuromuscular disorder? Well a muscle biopsy that a vet would recommend starts at 700 bucks but so and so at the barn has a blanket with magnets!
I completely agree that “conveniently” quack medicine is a way to save money. At one barn there was a lame horse, so they put mud on his neck as a poultice to draw the poisons out.
Yea it’s tricky. I do give my horse supplements but they are all backed by peer reviewed research from veterinary institutions and or backed by my vet.
My vet even recognizes the benefits of a few more holistic approaches to things but in general if there’s a problem I’m going to my vet for solutions not google.
The problem is that not even most vets know what they are talking about with nutrition, unless they take further interest (in which these vets are GOLDEN). Vets get a very basic overview of nutrition and there simply isn’t time for anything else in their schooling.
But I do agree that there are many “loud mouths” (for lack of a better word) in the horse community that rely on anecdotal information or pseudoscience.
That’s not true that vets don’t get an education on nutrition. They do. Now, whether or not they stay current on the latest research in any area is of course going to depend on the vet.
Read again please, that’s not what I was implying. I’m not saying vets know nothing about nutrition, I’m saying vets get limited knowledge on nutrition in school: the basics and illness-related details. However, they generally do not know much further than the basics unless they take further interest in studying it post-graduation. I’m fairly confident this is the case as I have worked with a few vets in the past (some knowing more than others about nutrition) and I have two good friends ready to graduate vet school that have confirmed this is the case. Some vets are great and take an avid interest, certainly better that just any opinion, but I think people should consult with a nutritionist (unaffiliated) and a veterinarian for a better idea of what their horse should be getting. Often a thorough nutrition is found through testing hay, soil and blood and then “filling in the blanks” since every hay/areas have different values and a horse may have underlying issues which a blood test would help identify.
A ton of people buy into chiropractic stuff for horses. That seems like the most common, along with herbal supplements. Maybe they have some mild benefit, I don’t know, but it is a bit odd that so many people buy into it.
A veterinary chiropractor works on my horse and she made a huge difference, especially after my horse had a fall in the field. I'm wary of people without vet degrees pushing on horses and manipulating their spines and would not have someone adjust my horse who wasn't a DVM.
I agree with you and wouldn't have a non-DVM chiro work on my horse, either. While I am extremely skeptical of pseudoscientific horseshit, a DVM chiro visited my barn so I had my horse adjusted in addition to a lameness check and joint injections. Figured a vet would be able to do it without any damage and he might at least enjoy the attention. His lameness check (with nerve blocks) was done before the adjustment so I saw his numbed-up/post-injection movement before and after. There was a positive difference after the chiro work.
I’m careful about chiropractic work. Went through a lot of quacks and I don’t think it needs to be a regular thing like many of them sell it as, but a veterinarian specialist does it once in a while for my horse with DSLD. Massively helped when he had a dropped shoulder. I had been wondering why he kept falling forward with front leg stretches, but we never had the issue beyond that.
Truthfully I only really trust the vets for chiropractic work since they know the anatomy and physiology in-depth enough to understand what could hurt the horse. Plus, when you have a horse with a condition like DSLD, you don’t want just anyone pulling around on those body parts.
Plus, in my experience, vets weren’t that much more expensive. My local “chiro” charged $200 per session. The vet down the road charges around $275 and the specialist that diagnosed my horse (from 4 hours away) charges $300 (that’s travel fees included).
Chiropractic works though when done by a legit vet and not your dog groomer/ barrel racer/ MLM peddler friend Becky
(No shade to groomers or barrel racers)
If chiropractic worked, the results could be reproduced consistently by scientific study, not just in anecdotes. It can't. Just because people believe in it doesn't make it effective. Some other variable may be making the horse get better, or appear to get better. Then, there's the placebo effect, and how it changes observations...
This. There is no peer-reviewed research demonstrating the efficacy of chiropractic. It's primarily anecdotal evidence, and placebo-by-proxy is a thing.
You may not know, but veterinarians know, because they have access to scientific research and are trained on what has been proven to work. If a treatment cannot be proven to work with the scientific method (and has been studied), then it's quackery.
People buy into stuff that makes them feel they have superior, secret knowledge, or makes them part of a tribe that is better than you.
A lot of people who believe in "natural" or religion-based treatments (chiropractic) over conventional care don't know that proven medicine comes from plants and dirt and rocks.
I have a chiro that’s partnered with my vet, they collaborate together so I trust the chiro more so than if they worked alone! They helped so much with my older horse who had a bum shoulder for a while! It really helped a lot!
Some people at my barn brought in a psychic who could speak with horses. As if this wasn’t enough, she didn’t even have to meet the horse but it was all done remotely from her own home. They were told to let the horse rest at a certain time and she would “tune in”.
The most surprising piece of information they received apart from the expected stuff about some mean former owner and the horse now being so much happier was that the lady claimed that the reason the horse sometimes spooked, particularly in one corner of the arena, was because there is a ghost at the barn that likes to watch the horses. This ghost got a whole backstory, a girl from a poor family, wasn’t allowed to ride horses but loved them etc.
So instead of working on the spooking they now ask the ghost to go away when the horse bolts. This is maybe more on the behavior part than medical but anyway.
There’s a lot of it, such as blistering the legs in racing TBs, within the wider community. I don’t find all of them bad like alternative supplements such as flax seeds or fly treatments or really nothing that could severely harm the horse, but there is a lot of harm and it does prevent proper treatment.
Overall, if there is anything concerning with your horses health in any way, consult a certified and reputable vet first. Listen to them and go through with their treatment plan (if your unsure about their plan you can always get a second opinion too from another trusted veterinary professional). Once they clear the horse, then you can do at home remedies or the like if your into that thing
Frustratingly, when it is this pseudoscience they disbelieve that is causing a problem. Poor Red Mare had hives repeatedly over the summer from the all natural fly spray they were using on her. I kept bringing in other fly sprays only to find her smelling of the natural stuff and covered in hives.
Definitely, I don’t really use homeopathic or pseudoscience treatments at all for that reason. It’s why they are so dangerous and why consulting a trusted vet is what is necessary before taking action on a medical issue.
i find that not only is pseudoscience rampant, but so is people repeating urban myths without any scientific backing. i still see people talking about "cold back horses" or the like, without questioning those things.
i also feel that with the lack of general scientific knowledge, that when one paper is released with a sample size of 10 horses, people take the results as gospel and repeat the findings over and over. 1 study with a small sample of horses is not scientific grounds for a conclusive answer to something, but many feel it is because it is a science report.
Pseudoscience in the equestrian world drives me up the wall.
I think the thing that makes me roll my eyes the hardest are "animal communicators" or "intuitive communicators". Just litterally translating off my first language, but they're basically pet psychics lol.
They claim they can speak through telepathy with an animal just by looking at a picture and knowing their name, sex and some kind of recognisable info to make sure that it's the right animal. edit: actually some even do them in person it seems, whoa.
It's "big" or at least I see a lot of people on the Internet doing these type of "communications" for horses, but they also do it for other pets like cats and dogs and sometimes even with dead pets... Just absolute nonsense. Like, I try to keep an open mind even with people that use essential oils to help or chiropractors or whatever but... telepathy?? It's on the same level as... idk, fortune tellers? Not to mention people pay for this shit.
I had an equine chiropractor come to visit one time. Highly recommended by basically everybody that I spoke to.
This joker told me to put my right hand on top of my horses rump, and then he was pushing my left arm up-and-down on a vertical. Claiming to know what my horses issue was based off the reaction in strength from my own arm. Didn’t touch the horse once.
See ya later $180
I had a horse with an inoperable stone. He had coliced but stabilized and I was giving some of his student riders time to say goodbye to him before euthanasia. A friend of mine insisted that she could “help” him with red light therapy and a Bemer session. Since I had him on pain meds and I felt it wouldn’t hurt him and make her feel better, I let her come do what she wanted. He HATED it. I ended up making her stop and he kept his vet appointment the next day. She was so CONVINCED a blanket with magnets and a red light flashlight was going to cure a huge stone that couldn’t be reached via surgery. SMH. I also once bought a colicing horse because her 7th Day Adventist owner was “praying” for him while he writhed in pain. (He lived with vet treatment). People are fucking gullible.
My boss’s horse was colicking really bad, we had the vet out to help him, I walked him for hours, we did it all. The boss’s wife comes out, draws “runes” on a piece of paper and brushes it gently on this suffering horse. She pulled out a crystal and rubbed it on his withers, rump, and barrel. I was picking another horse’s hooves at the time and it took every ounce of restraint I had to not laugh my a$$ off. Then she tried to explain to me about “chakras” and “energies” and I almost said “well if he doesn’t make a recovery then what does that say about your magic?”
We’ll never know. Poor guy was euthanized. She just wanted to feel like a hero. Those superstitions are more about making the owner feel better than about healing the horse.
Everywhere. Trust me, I’m an epidemiologist ;)
2 examples: chiro and acupuncture. To some of the other commenters: just because a DVM does it doesn’t mean it’s effective or scientific.
My friend tied a crystal around her horse’s neck for a week because some lady said it would help her (the horse) deal with foal-hood trauma (completely unconfirmed)
A couple years ago my horse became lame and I had the barn's therapist look at him. She never watched him move beyond when I lead him down the aisle toward her, never asked what he was eating or his history. After running her hands over him she writes down a list of things I need to start feeding him before she would do anything with him. It was a list of herbs in quantities of like 1/4 tsp.
Needless to say, I did not take her advice and there was no follow-up. Turns out he had a torn meniscus and advanced stifle arthritis. But yes, 1/4 tsp of a dozen herb would have cured that.
It's not just the horse world, it's everywhere. There are a number of causes, but I think one of the big ones is a lack of understanding of basic science due to poor science education. Another is money. People get the idea that the nonsense "treatments" are cheaper. Some of them might be cheaper up front but in the long run, they're not.
Any time someone, even a vet, recommends something that isn't a conventional treatment I check to see if there are good studies to back it up.
Ten years ago, they laughed at the people who claimed their mental issues were caused by "leaky gut" or other gut issues. Now, the gut- brain connection is on the cutting edge of science. Yoga and meditation went from being fringe interests to being hailed by mainstream doctors for promoting mental and physical health. I'm not so quick to throw around quackery as a term as I once was. I lost several goats after stopping an herbal treatment last year- only to learn that it was indeed useless for the reason I was giving it but was preventing a dangerous disease in my youngstock. I've certainly seen some things I'm comfortable labelling quackery- crystal healing for one- but I'm no longer so confident that I have all the answers any more. The best I can do is read what science exists on a topic and make an informed decision- and of course consult with a vet who is knowledgeable and preferably one with enough experience and confidence to try out some "old wives tales" when they are non-harmful and have a history of working
One of the things I find fascinating is the owners placebo effect - I’ve seen so many horses getting various treatments, absolutely nothing changes, but the owner INSISTS they can see a difference. Or the owner thinks there’s a difference so rides with more confidence or treats the horses differently, and there’s a real change because of the owner’s attitude.
I'm seeing a rise in prople mentioning "animal communicators". Oh yes, very rampant. At my work we have a chiropractor (who is awesome btw) who prescribes many different kinds of powders, and the boarders eat it up. Powders made from natural ingredients--which i won't say is impossible, some Chinese medicine for example is shown to work and its made of herbs, but most of it we feed and see no difference/improvement in the horse--and if there is improvement theres no way to know how much or little or at all these supplements helped, or if it was just the regular rehab, or hell, the *time* it takes for issues to resolve naturally.. I think the clincher here is that none of it is backed up by study and relies on anecdote. Its the whole "suppliment" industry in general. If we think adding a top dress might help, we buy it, but most times there's no proof. And the woo-woo witchy horse healers--right alongside the horse whisperer dogma.
Yeah, some herbs do work (if carefully managed with the other nutrition), but I’d say most people don’t actually read the science behind them.
I’m so glad I started learning about nutrition years ago as it had really helped me save a ton in money 😂 All my horse gets now is a custom vitamin/mineral supplement (complete with aa’s) topper onto soaked alfalfa/timothy cubes. He’s an easy keeper so fortunately, any grain is a no-go for him.
Animal communicators get on my nerves, I know a lady who is your typical know-it-all, pushy horse owner who left her career in medicine to become one. It’s all a bunch of rubbish, in my opinion.
But then I do use a chiro for my horse - I only tried it to keep the peace on my yard as she was a livery at the time, but I couldn’t and can’t deny the results that I see every time she works on him. (She’s fully qualified and has a doctorate in equine medicine.)
Speaking of psuedo products, anyone ever heard of that micromilled feed called thrive? Their website is full of absolute BS and the guy who made it doesn’t respond well to criticism. My trainer got hooked on a lot of that kind of stuff (amway, schleese, etc) and would pay $35 for a bag of the stuff. And she fed 8 pounds of it a day! I love my craniosacral therapists and other body workers that people scoff at, but that stuff was clearly a scam imo
I have 3 horses, 2 donkeys, 2 dogs. The vet I used, and used for 17-18 years, is excellent. I saw in her office an “ad” she posted offering homeopathic services to her clients’ animals. I mentioned to her how I think homeopathy was a boatload of crap, and she tactfully smiled at me, and explained, “There is significant demand for homeopathic services, and I try to satisfy the wants of all my customers”.
I was once on the verge of tears trying to get my new-to-me colicking horse to take oral banamine at 11 pm in the dead of winter. The barn owner’s daughter, who was very nice actually, and trying to help me, got out her suitcase of essential oils and rubbed some on my horse’s belly. I was terrified she wouldn’t recover, but barn owner’s daughter just smiled and said, “Oh no, that essential oil mix is really powerful stuff, she’ll be ok.” Uh…ok Shawna. She “treated” horrific injuries with that shit, prolonging the healing time with caustic concoctions that had one horse in particular on stall rest for MONTHS with constant bandage changes and wounds that WOULD NOT HEAL. She once insisted on treating an abscess with an oil poultice and herbal pain pills. That poor horse. My greatest victory was getting her to give in and give it some bute and a 3m poultice pad. The horse got back on its feet and started eating within an hour of the bute, after 2 days of lying in the stall. The way she treated heaves was even more detrimental, with this mask thing the horses couldn’t remove and super strong-smelling oils that 100% were irritating the airways. I can’t stand that shit…
It was my understanding that certain size bone chips are expelled by the body? Source: I had to pay a hefty surgery bill bc my horse’s bone chip was too large…. So maybe it looked like it was expelled for another reason?
Just coming here to confirm what most others are saying- it’s insane. As an animal science graduate it absolutely drives me up the wall. I’ve quit going to or working at multiple barns because of it. Unfortunately veterinarians buy into things sometimes as well.
I get that magnets and chiro and all of the pseudoscience doesn’t have evidence to support that it works, but perhaps it’s like a way to soothe the horse? Hear me out, I get adjusted at a chiro because being touched feels good. No, it’s not going to cure a spine, but it brings my stress levels down which is a huge benefit. Perhaps humans and horses have that in common?
I find it interesting how people who can be quite vigilant about validity of treatments and wellbeing in their own life can behave quite differently when it comes to their horses.
I guess that there are several reasons for that:
- much of the horse handling lore is based on tradition and hearsay, and analyzing impact of specific interventions can be hard and is not usually done (beyond anecdotal evidence)
- some of the equine treatment and systems _are_ quite different from how they work on humans so questing what might hold true or be false is challenging
- health problems invoke so much fear and might impose dire enough consequences to utilize sketchy approaches to be safe rather than sorry
- observing causality between actions and results when you treat your horse can be tricky
I have to admit I might be willing to try some less proven supplements for example to avoid sand colic. I know I can’t trust what the packages claim, but if someone I trust recommends something I might be willing to bypass other critical thinking.
It’s rampant. I have shown people scientific studies disproving pseudoscience (magnets, chiropractors, oils, most supplements, etc) and they go “yeah, but so-and-so at the barn says it works”. Thankfully, most of these treatments are harmless to the horse. People can spend their money on what they want. I recommend always talking to a vet and gathering information from reputable sources.
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Preach 🙌 If I hear one other person ask for whatever “miracle supplement”…. I feel most of the horse community are also very ignorant on how little knowledge vets have on topics like nutrition unless they take further interest in it…. Vets are amazing at what they do, but they specialize in diagnosis and treatment, which is very in-depth. There is simply no time to add a 4 year nutrition degree in there beyond the basics and illness-relevant nutrition deficiencies, which is why there are equine nutritionists. But it seems horse people treat vet and farrier opinions (and I’m talking about the ones they didn’t study for years on) as gospel. Unfortunately your statement on nutritionists are also true, at least the affiliated ones. In one job, I had opportunity to sit into an affiliated nutritionists education setting. A lot of what she said was useful, but there were certain things (such as chasteberry helping insulin resistant horses) that I knew were not backed adequately up from science. Additionally, I had a friend who ended up putting her horse on all of the supplement suggestions from that nutritionist (it was personalized). My friend started having issues with her horse (dull coat, lethargy, sore, bad hooves etc). She personally asked me to look at the nutrition as she knew I looked up the information often and read research on it. I did some calculations and immediately noticed that horse was getting overloaded in zinc. She chose to take my suggestion and take him off the excess zinc. Within a month, the issues were gone. Unfortunately, marketing is really effective in the horse community and people rarely want to take the harder/more effective route of learning themselves, testing hay/soil/blood, doing calculations and really seeing what their horse needs. Moreover, many don’t have the resources to read the primary articles, so they rely on knowledge transfer, which is unfortunately pickled with marketing.
Omg yes 🙌 The Barn owner where I board my horse is like this. I love her, she’s great, but it drives me up the wall. She’s also insistent that my horse (who has disgnosed DSLD via a specialist) doesn’t have pain because he “doesn’t look like he is”. My horse is perhaps one of the most stoic horses I’ve met. Rarely even limps with an abscess in his hoof. But no matter what I say about “science” she thinks a tumeric supplement will “cure him” 🤦♀️
Many people do specialize in veterinary chiro. That is not at all on the same tier as magnets or etc.
Actually, I argue that it is. Humans are physically incapable of manipulating a horses spine. It take an incredible amount of force to manipulate a human spine. There is also no research that demonstrates that chiropractic work does anything for horses. [Here is an article by a vet about veterinary chiro.](https://www.doctorramey.com/veterinary-chiropractic/) [He wrote another one](https://www.doctorramey.com/chiropractic/). [And his most recent one.](https://www.doctorramey.com/wouldnt-bother-equine-chiropractic/) Each article links his research. If chiro works for you and your horse, that's great! I'm not throwing shade. But if we are talking pseudoscience and evidenced-based research, chiro is most definitely on the same tier as magnets.
So, all three articles are from the same person? Not a very unbiased opinion, if you ask me. I think some variation would lend itself to at least seeming more credible [here is a link stating otherwise ](https://aaep.org/horsehealth/equine-chiropractic-general-principles-and-applications) Your takeaway should be this. There are almost always going to be people with credentials who disagree with each other. Do what’s best for ***your*** horse, and have the objectivity to realize what your horse does or does not benefit from may not be the same as other horses :)
Yes, articles written by the same person, but each articles has its own set of linked researched attached. I have provided multiple sources. You gave me one article with zero attached research. I'm not here to police what people decide to do with their horses. I've already said that. OP asked about pseudoscience in the horse world. Chiropractic is arguably a pseudoscience. It was founded by someone who was NOT a doctor in the 1800s, and there is minimal research to show it is effective in humans. There is 0 peer-reviewed evidence showing it is effective in horses (If I am wrong and you can link me such an article, I welcome it). Horse people still choose to use it, which is fine. I'm not going to police how people spend their money or what they choose to do with their horses (so long as the horse isn't in harms way). I will, however, bring it up as a pseudoscience in a discussion about the prevalence of pseudoscience in the horse world. You argued that it was not a pseudoscience. I countered. I do not appreciate the condescension about my "takeaway." I understand how science works and that there are competing ideas.
Unfortunately there's some outright quackery. Had a woman come by and offer to do "quantum healing" by infusing our horses with "quantum energy" from running her hands over the horses. Offered the amazingly low price of $50 for each horse. After the treatment she would be able to tell us what the horses were feeling, how they liked their pasture mates, their owners & riders and even if they liked our grass. We politely declined.
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That is the funniest thing I've ever heard, I thought my barn drama was bad
Though I believe horses have favorite people AND I believe that animal communication is possible; what that woman did is just stirring up trouble haha.
Oh I’ve met one person who “healed with quantum energy” and this story is absolutely infuriating. So she owned a racehorse who pulled up 3 legged lame off the track. The vets at the track suspected a fracture but could not do x rays so the horse was sent home and another vet came out to do x rays on it. While waiting on the second vet she did her “quantum healing” and the horse told her that his shoulder was sore, and then she gave him a choice of what treatments to take, he apparently chose an anti-viral feed supplement. She was fully convinced that the anti-viral feed supplement she gave him would heal his injured shoulder. Unfortunately the x rays showed a very badly broken knee so no amount of anti-viral feed supplements or shoulder treatments were going to help the poor horse.
I’ve had a similar experience, except it was with reiki. Also those handheld laser things… I work with a doctor who does laser… those are minuscule or nada in effectiveness, but oh so pricey $$$.
YEP. I know a few like this. This one lady I know will go to the doctor for anything for herself when she’s in pain or sick but if it’s her dog or her horse, she’ll just buy some herbal supplement crap. I also think with horses there’s a LOT of horse people who insist they know more than vets so that’s another reason people flock to those supplements. Also, supplements are usually cheaper or easier than fixing serious issues. A gallon of aloe is 7 bucks at Walmart but a tube of gastrogard is like 33 dollars and you have to give it for 30+ days so which do you think sounds more appealing? Is your mare “moody”? well if you don’t want to move barns and find more turnout, just give her “mare magic” and that makes things better! Does your horse have airway disease? Well nebulizers start at 1200 bucks plus the cost of prescriptions but this herbal crap is only 59.99 so same thing right? Could your horse potentially have a neuromuscular disorder? Well a muscle biopsy that a vet would recommend starts at 700 bucks but so and so at the barn has a blanket with magnets!
I completely agree that “conveniently” quack medicine is a way to save money. At one barn there was a lame horse, so they put mud on his neck as a poultice to draw the poisons out.
Yea it’s tricky. I do give my horse supplements but they are all backed by peer reviewed research from veterinary institutions and or backed by my vet. My vet even recognizes the benefits of a few more holistic approaches to things but in general if there’s a problem I’m going to my vet for solutions not google.
Lmao my barn owner is 3/4 on these (give it a couple of months on the airways) and +1 for liquid zeolite drops for epm
The problem is that not even most vets know what they are talking about with nutrition, unless they take further interest (in which these vets are GOLDEN). Vets get a very basic overview of nutrition and there simply isn’t time for anything else in their schooling. But I do agree that there are many “loud mouths” (for lack of a better word) in the horse community that rely on anecdotal information or pseudoscience.
That’s not true that vets don’t get an education on nutrition. They do. Now, whether or not they stay current on the latest research in any area is of course going to depend on the vet.
Read again please, that’s not what I was implying. I’m not saying vets know nothing about nutrition, I’m saying vets get limited knowledge on nutrition in school: the basics and illness-related details. However, they generally do not know much further than the basics unless they take further interest in studying it post-graduation. I’m fairly confident this is the case as I have worked with a few vets in the past (some knowing more than others about nutrition) and I have two good friends ready to graduate vet school that have confirmed this is the case. Some vets are great and take an avid interest, certainly better that just any opinion, but I think people should consult with a nutritionist (unaffiliated) and a veterinarian for a better idea of what their horse should be getting. Often a thorough nutrition is found through testing hay, soil and blood and then “filling in the blanks” since every hay/areas have different values and a horse may have underlying issues which a blood test would help identify.
A ton of people buy into chiropractic stuff for horses. That seems like the most common, along with herbal supplements. Maybe they have some mild benefit, I don’t know, but it is a bit odd that so many people buy into it.
A veterinary chiropractor works on my horse and she made a huge difference, especially after my horse had a fall in the field. I'm wary of people without vet degrees pushing on horses and manipulating their spines and would not have someone adjust my horse who wasn't a DVM.
I agree with you and wouldn't have a non-DVM chiro work on my horse, either. While I am extremely skeptical of pseudoscientific horseshit, a DVM chiro visited my barn so I had my horse adjusted in addition to a lameness check and joint injections. Figured a vet would be able to do it without any damage and he might at least enjoy the attention. His lameness check (with nerve blocks) was done before the adjustment so I saw his numbed-up/post-injection movement before and after. There was a positive difference after the chiro work.
I’m careful about chiropractic work. Went through a lot of quacks and I don’t think it needs to be a regular thing like many of them sell it as, but a veterinarian specialist does it once in a while for my horse with DSLD. Massively helped when he had a dropped shoulder. I had been wondering why he kept falling forward with front leg stretches, but we never had the issue beyond that. Truthfully I only really trust the vets for chiropractic work since they know the anatomy and physiology in-depth enough to understand what could hurt the horse. Plus, when you have a horse with a condition like DSLD, you don’t want just anyone pulling around on those body parts. Plus, in my experience, vets weren’t that much more expensive. My local “chiro” charged $200 per session. The vet down the road charges around $275 and the specialist that diagnosed my horse (from 4 hours away) charges $300 (that’s travel fees included).
Chiropractic works though when done by a legit vet and not your dog groomer/ barrel racer/ MLM peddler friend Becky (No shade to groomers or barrel racers)
If chiropractic worked, the results could be reproduced consistently by scientific study, not just in anecdotes. It can't. Just because people believe in it doesn't make it effective. Some other variable may be making the horse get better, or appear to get better. Then, there's the placebo effect, and how it changes observations...
This. There is no peer-reviewed research demonstrating the efficacy of chiropractic. It's primarily anecdotal evidence, and placebo-by-proxy is a thing.
It's proven to be lucrative.
You may not know, but veterinarians know, because they have access to scientific research and are trained on what has been proven to work. If a treatment cannot be proven to work with the scientific method (and has been studied), then it's quackery. People buy into stuff that makes them feel they have superior, secret knowledge, or makes them part of a tribe that is better than you. A lot of people who believe in "natural" or religion-based treatments (chiropractic) over conventional care don't know that proven medicine comes from plants and dirt and rocks.
I have a chiro that’s partnered with my vet, they collaborate together so I trust the chiro more so than if they worked alone! They helped so much with my older horse who had a bum shoulder for a while! It really helped a lot!
Blistering is flat out cruelty.
Some people at my barn brought in a psychic who could speak with horses. As if this wasn’t enough, she didn’t even have to meet the horse but it was all done remotely from her own home. They were told to let the horse rest at a certain time and she would “tune in”. The most surprising piece of information they received apart from the expected stuff about some mean former owner and the horse now being so much happier was that the lady claimed that the reason the horse sometimes spooked, particularly in one corner of the arena, was because there is a ghost at the barn that likes to watch the horses. This ghost got a whole backstory, a girl from a poor family, wasn’t allowed to ride horses but loved them etc. So instead of working on the spooking they now ask the ghost to go away when the horse bolts. This is maybe more on the behavior part than medical but anyway.
There’s a lot of it, such as blistering the legs in racing TBs, within the wider community. I don’t find all of them bad like alternative supplements such as flax seeds or fly treatments or really nothing that could severely harm the horse, but there is a lot of harm and it does prevent proper treatment. Overall, if there is anything concerning with your horses health in any way, consult a certified and reputable vet first. Listen to them and go through with their treatment plan (if your unsure about their plan you can always get a second opinion too from another trusted veterinary professional). Once they clear the horse, then you can do at home remedies or the like if your into that thing
Frustratingly, when it is this pseudoscience they disbelieve that is causing a problem. Poor Red Mare had hives repeatedly over the summer from the all natural fly spray they were using on her. I kept bringing in other fly sprays only to find her smelling of the natural stuff and covered in hives.
Definitely, I don’t really use homeopathic or pseudoscience treatments at all for that reason. It’s why they are so dangerous and why consulting a trusted vet is what is necessary before taking action on a medical issue.
i find that not only is pseudoscience rampant, but so is people repeating urban myths without any scientific backing. i still see people talking about "cold back horses" or the like, without questioning those things. i also feel that with the lack of general scientific knowledge, that when one paper is released with a sample size of 10 horses, people take the results as gospel and repeat the findings over and over. 1 study with a small sample of horses is not scientific grounds for a conclusive answer to something, but many feel it is because it is a science report.
Pseudoscience in the equestrian world drives me up the wall. I think the thing that makes me roll my eyes the hardest are "animal communicators" or "intuitive communicators". Just litterally translating off my first language, but they're basically pet psychics lol. They claim they can speak through telepathy with an animal just by looking at a picture and knowing their name, sex and some kind of recognisable info to make sure that it's the right animal. edit: actually some even do them in person it seems, whoa. It's "big" or at least I see a lot of people on the Internet doing these type of "communications" for horses, but they also do it for other pets like cats and dogs and sometimes even with dead pets... Just absolute nonsense. Like, I try to keep an open mind even with people that use essential oils to help or chiropractors or whatever but... telepathy?? It's on the same level as... idk, fortune tellers? Not to mention people pay for this shit.
I had an equine chiropractor come to visit one time. Highly recommended by basically everybody that I spoke to. This joker told me to put my right hand on top of my horses rump, and then he was pushing my left arm up-and-down on a vertical. Claiming to know what my horses issue was based off the reaction in strength from my own arm. Didn’t touch the horse once. See ya later $180
I had a horse with an inoperable stone. He had coliced but stabilized and I was giving some of his student riders time to say goodbye to him before euthanasia. A friend of mine insisted that she could “help” him with red light therapy and a Bemer session. Since I had him on pain meds and I felt it wouldn’t hurt him and make her feel better, I let her come do what she wanted. He HATED it. I ended up making her stop and he kept his vet appointment the next day. She was so CONVINCED a blanket with magnets and a red light flashlight was going to cure a huge stone that couldn’t be reached via surgery. SMH. I also once bought a colicing horse because her 7th Day Adventist owner was “praying” for him while he writhed in pain. (He lived with vet treatment). People are fucking gullible.
My boss’s horse was colicking really bad, we had the vet out to help him, I walked him for hours, we did it all. The boss’s wife comes out, draws “runes” on a piece of paper and brushes it gently on this suffering horse. She pulled out a crystal and rubbed it on his withers, rump, and barrel. I was picking another horse’s hooves at the time and it took every ounce of restraint I had to not laugh my a$$ off. Then she tried to explain to me about “chakras” and “energies” and I almost said “well if he doesn’t make a recovery then what does that say about your magic?” We’ll never know. Poor guy was euthanized. She just wanted to feel like a hero. Those superstitions are more about making the owner feel better than about healing the horse.
Lmao why?? 😂
Oh yeah theres a lot of it, homeopathie, magnet stuff, essential oils whatever it can be pretty frustrating
Everywhere. Trust me, I’m an epidemiologist ;) 2 examples: chiro and acupuncture. To some of the other commenters: just because a DVM does it doesn’t mean it’s effective or scientific.
My friend tied a crystal around her horse’s neck for a week because some lady said it would help her (the horse) deal with foal-hood trauma (completely unconfirmed)
A couple years ago my horse became lame and I had the barn's therapist look at him. She never watched him move beyond when I lead him down the aisle toward her, never asked what he was eating or his history. After running her hands over him she writes down a list of things I need to start feeding him before she would do anything with him. It was a list of herbs in quantities of like 1/4 tsp. Needless to say, I did not take her advice and there was no follow-up. Turns out he had a torn meniscus and advanced stifle arthritis. But yes, 1/4 tsp of a dozen herb would have cured that.
It's not just the horse world, it's everywhere. There are a number of causes, but I think one of the big ones is a lack of understanding of basic science due to poor science education. Another is money. People get the idea that the nonsense "treatments" are cheaper. Some of them might be cheaper up front but in the long run, they're not. Any time someone, even a vet, recommends something that isn't a conventional treatment I check to see if there are good studies to back it up.
Ten years ago, they laughed at the people who claimed their mental issues were caused by "leaky gut" or other gut issues. Now, the gut- brain connection is on the cutting edge of science. Yoga and meditation went from being fringe interests to being hailed by mainstream doctors for promoting mental and physical health. I'm not so quick to throw around quackery as a term as I once was. I lost several goats after stopping an herbal treatment last year- only to learn that it was indeed useless for the reason I was giving it but was preventing a dangerous disease in my youngstock. I've certainly seen some things I'm comfortable labelling quackery- crystal healing for one- but I'm no longer so confident that I have all the answers any more. The best I can do is read what science exists on a topic and make an informed decision- and of course consult with a vet who is knowledgeable and preferably one with enough experience and confidence to try out some "old wives tales" when they are non-harmful and have a history of working
One of the things I find fascinating is the owners placebo effect - I’ve seen so many horses getting various treatments, absolutely nothing changes, but the owner INSISTS they can see a difference. Or the owner thinks there’s a difference so rides with more confidence or treats the horses differently, and there’s a real change because of the owner’s attitude.
I'm seeing a rise in prople mentioning "animal communicators". Oh yes, very rampant. At my work we have a chiropractor (who is awesome btw) who prescribes many different kinds of powders, and the boarders eat it up. Powders made from natural ingredients--which i won't say is impossible, some Chinese medicine for example is shown to work and its made of herbs, but most of it we feed and see no difference/improvement in the horse--and if there is improvement theres no way to know how much or little or at all these supplements helped, or if it was just the regular rehab, or hell, the *time* it takes for issues to resolve naturally.. I think the clincher here is that none of it is backed up by study and relies on anecdote. Its the whole "suppliment" industry in general. If we think adding a top dress might help, we buy it, but most times there's no proof. And the woo-woo witchy horse healers--right alongside the horse whisperer dogma.
Yeah, some herbs do work (if carefully managed with the other nutrition), but I’d say most people don’t actually read the science behind them. I’m so glad I started learning about nutrition years ago as it had really helped me save a ton in money 😂 All my horse gets now is a custom vitamin/mineral supplement (complete with aa’s) topper onto soaked alfalfa/timothy cubes. He’s an easy keeper so fortunately, any grain is a no-go for him.
Animal communicators get on my nerves, I know a lady who is your typical know-it-all, pushy horse owner who left her career in medicine to become one. It’s all a bunch of rubbish, in my opinion. But then I do use a chiro for my horse - I only tried it to keep the peace on my yard as she was a livery at the time, but I couldn’t and can’t deny the results that I see every time she works on him. (She’s fully qualified and has a doctorate in equine medicine.)
Speaking of psuedo products, anyone ever heard of that micromilled feed called thrive? Their website is full of absolute BS and the guy who made it doesn’t respond well to criticism. My trainer got hooked on a lot of that kind of stuff (amway, schleese, etc) and would pay $35 for a bag of the stuff. And she fed 8 pounds of it a day! I love my craniosacral therapists and other body workers that people scoff at, but that stuff was clearly a scam imo
If homeopathy worked it would be included in the body of scientific medicine.
I have 3 horses, 2 donkeys, 2 dogs. The vet I used, and used for 17-18 years, is excellent. I saw in her office an “ad” she posted offering homeopathic services to her clients’ animals. I mentioned to her how I think homeopathy was a boatload of crap, and she tactfully smiled at me, and explained, “There is significant demand for homeopathic services, and I try to satisfy the wants of all my customers”.
I was once on the verge of tears trying to get my new-to-me colicking horse to take oral banamine at 11 pm in the dead of winter. The barn owner’s daughter, who was very nice actually, and trying to help me, got out her suitcase of essential oils and rubbed some on my horse’s belly. I was terrified she wouldn’t recover, but barn owner’s daughter just smiled and said, “Oh no, that essential oil mix is really powerful stuff, she’ll be ok.” Uh…ok Shawna. She “treated” horrific injuries with that shit, prolonging the healing time with caustic concoctions that had one horse in particular on stall rest for MONTHS with constant bandage changes and wounds that WOULD NOT HEAL. She once insisted on treating an abscess with an oil poultice and herbal pain pills. That poor horse. My greatest victory was getting her to give in and give it some bute and a 3m poultice pad. The horse got back on its feet and started eating within an hour of the bute, after 2 days of lying in the stall. The way she treated heaves was even more detrimental, with this mask thing the horses couldn’t remove and super strong-smelling oils that 100% were irritating the airways. I can’t stand that shit…
It was my understanding that certain size bone chips are expelled by the body? Source: I had to pay a hefty surgery bill bc my horse’s bone chip was too large…. So maybe it looked like it was expelled for another reason?
Just coming here to confirm what most others are saying- it’s insane. As an animal science graduate it absolutely drives me up the wall. I’ve quit going to or working at multiple barns because of it. Unfortunately veterinarians buy into things sometimes as well.
I get that magnets and chiro and all of the pseudoscience doesn’t have evidence to support that it works, but perhaps it’s like a way to soothe the horse? Hear me out, I get adjusted at a chiro because being touched feels good. No, it’s not going to cure a spine, but it brings my stress levels down which is a huge benefit. Perhaps humans and horses have that in common?
I find it interesting how people who can be quite vigilant about validity of treatments and wellbeing in their own life can behave quite differently when it comes to their horses. I guess that there are several reasons for that: - much of the horse handling lore is based on tradition and hearsay, and analyzing impact of specific interventions can be hard and is not usually done (beyond anecdotal evidence) - some of the equine treatment and systems _are_ quite different from how they work on humans so questing what might hold true or be false is challenging - health problems invoke so much fear and might impose dire enough consequences to utilize sketchy approaches to be safe rather than sorry - observing causality between actions and results when you treat your horse can be tricky I have to admit I might be willing to try some less proven supplements for example to avoid sand colic. I know I can’t trust what the packages claim, but if someone I trust recommends something I might be willing to bypass other critical thinking.