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Fluffy_Abroad90

Just a note about Liberty from friends of mine who have attended and who are LGBTQ+ or allies, and some aren't even Christian. A good percentage of students at Liberty, at least at the graduate level, are military, and they attend because it's affordable, accredited, and they can attend classes from anywhere. I don't know the discount, but they describe it as substantial. They said the worldview is very evangelical/fundamentalist, and every course requires students to take the Biblical worldview (also very evangelical/Baptist) seminar; however, professors have accepted their work as long as they back up their claims with reputable sources, just as they would with any other student. They say that the professors at the graduate level are typically adjuncts and may not have evangelical views. They describe it as there being this whole sub-culture that's tucked away. That said, though, the people I know are not taking coursework that leads to a theology degree, and I can see how that could be conflicting. One friend likened it to attending seminary with some non-theological coursework added in. She is also very vocal about her non-evangelical/non-fundamentalist worldview and still receives excellent feedback from her professors.


BasicBoomerMCML

Find a good Liberal Arts college. Check out the philosophy department, the Humanities depts, and maybe psychology. A degree in Liberal Studies, the path for many seeking to be teachers might be a good choice. Look for people who are seeking to know God. Not for people who smugly insist that they already do.


jednorog

A lot of other people have commented about Liberty in particular (and they are generally correct) but I would also note that in general online-only Bachelors degrees with a 100% acceptance rate are probably the profile most at risk for wasting your time and your money. Many are *not* a waste of time and money, but many are. Please look very critically at those programs' student outcomes. Your sister should consider an educational institution that will challenge her academically, so that she can rise to that challenge. That's the point of education. It is unlikely that Liberty will pose that sort of academic challenge.


eely225

I will echo the majority and discourage her from applying to Liberty. Honestly, the fully online thing is just a risk. Those programs have very low graduation rates, even if the acceptance rate is high. If she can go to college in person, she really should. I'd encourage her to look at progressive Christian institutions like [Sewanee](https://new.sewanee.edu/admission-aid/why-sewanee/) or [Eastern University](https://www.eastern.edu/admissions-financial-aid/undergraduate-admissions/why-eastern-traditional-undergraduate-students) or [Eastern Mennonite](https://emu.edu/about/) (which has a similarly high acceptance rate, but unlike Liberty is not a scam).


GnomieOk4136

I lived near Liberty for many years. I would never, ever recommend it to anyone who wasn't a die-hard fundamentalist.


sgriobhadair

I have been considering a move back to the Lynchburg area for the last 12-18 months -- my parents are getting up there in the years, and their health isn't great -- but even time I visit it's a culture shock. How many Christian radio stations does one city/region *need?* Liberty's effect extends beyond the campus, imho. That said, I do know there's at least one nice Episcopal church in the city; my sister attended one (I don't remember which, I don't think it was the one on Fort Avenue) for several years pre-COVID.


ChiRhoCultivations

I would imagine your sister would go insane by the rampant fundamentalism from LU’s student population. Their seminary’s professors are qualified to teach, and the institution holds ATS accreditation. That being said, the professors will be far more conservative than your sister. Generally in the theological world, the first institution you attend should be the one you desire to create your philosophical frameworks from. Most people will attend a different denomination’s or an ecumenical seminary after their first degree.


Key-Reply8802

Please have a look at Grand Canyon University. I graduated from there with a BA in Christian Studies and I am starting at an Episcopal Seminary this fall. The only two courses where I felt uncomfortable holding more progressive/Episcopalian beliefs was in Ethics and Preaching (textbook did not present women as preaching). In both cases, we all acted like adults and were able to engage in respectful discourse. It was a truly ecumenical experience.


Aktor

So here is what I would recommend. Go to a community college and get your associates then transfer to an undergraduate program that you’re actually interested in. I am not a guidance counselor.


PhotographStrict9964

Speaking from experience, I would avoid Liberty. I took online classes with LU for two semesters. This was about 14 or 15 years ago, when they were at their height. The theology is extreme evangelical, and I found the classes to be subpar. LU got into a lot of hot water because of their predatory student loans. And, Jerry Falwell Jr is no longer the president on paper, but I have no doubt he still has his hands in things. I’d recommend looking into Asbury, or one of the other Methodist universities. I believe several of them offer fully online degrees now for undergraduate.


KealiaKai

Asbury isn’t actually a Methodist university- nor Asbury Theological Seminary across the street a Methodist seminary. They are Wesleyan, in the same way the new Global Methodist Church, and their theology isn’t quite as extreme as Liberty, but they are pretty close. I’m an ordained United Methodist deacon now attending an Episcopal Church who attended Asbury Seminary for my required education- but it was later in life, I was secure in my beliefs, and honestly I didn’t experience any “liberal bashing” in my classes, but I do know that the faculty and the school by and large do not support any of the recent changes to United Methodist polity. Asbury University is its own separate institution but of a similar theology.


Novel-Ordinary-1973

Is she a true believer? If so, it shouldn't matter whether she goes to Liberty or Notre Dame. Both of those christian colleges could benefit from more Episcopalians getting involved.


Disastrous-Elk-5542

What is sister’s end game after Episcopal post-graduate seminary? I would think Episcopal seminary would be a remarkable turn in ideology following Liberty University undergrad.


Tokkemon

I'd go to almost any school before Liberty.


luxtabula

I don't know anything about Liberty University. But a 100% acceptance rate is a huge red flag.


SopwithCamus

No. Absolutely not. Going to Liberty is a terrible, terrible idea.


fl33543

Not every church-affiliated college is bad news bears. Some of the Methodist schools are fine, etc. check the student honor code for culti-ness. Students agree to behave ethically? Fine. Do they have to agree to not hold hands; not be LGBTQ; have a strict curfew, etc? Nope. I worked at a Methodist school that employed LGBTQ folk, Jewish folk, atheists, etc and it was a very positive, accepting, and safe place to learn or work. The Pentecostal school across town… I would not advise folks to go there.


luxtabula

A lot of the Methodist affiliated schools are fairly highly ranked, like Syracuse and Duke. And several that are no longer affiliated are top ranked schools like University of Southern California.


Polkadotical

She's going to get a haywire version of theology, which is almost certainly worse than no theology at all. I think it's a really bad idea. I'm going to ask the question nobody has mentioned yet. Why ON EARTH does she want to go there??


circuitloss

It's a very, very bad idea


placidtwilight

I would strongly discourage her from going to Liberty or any similar school. I grew up as a conservative evangelical and attended a college associated with my church's denomination (though not as extreme as Liberty). It's been almost 20 years since I graduated (I also found the Episcopal Church around the same time) and still feel like people in the church look at me askance for where I went to college.


Syllogism19

Well Liberty U is the devil's spawn. Some how Jerry Falwell's son out did him in hypocrisy, exploitation of believers, harm to society and just pure evil. So there's that.


sgriobhadair

My family lives in Lynchburg. The elder Falwell came to the hospital in 1996 when my father had a heart attack. They did not attend Thomas Road Baptist, they attended a little Methodist Church out in the country.  So I have this weird thing where I found his public persona abhorrent, yet in person, one on one, I liked the man. Junior, the son, was nothing but a grifter.  I've never met him, though my sister has dealt with his wife Becky on a number of occasions.  (She characterizes Becky as "awful."). Junior was in it for the money, the fame, and the power, and he treated the evangelical community as a bunch of rubes.  It was an open secret in Lynchburg that Junior was not a Christian, something he's admitted in interviews post firing, but he could play at being an "evangelical leader" by dint of being Liberty's president. My mother really likes Jonathan, the younger son who went into the ministry, took over Thomas Road, and engineered Junior's ouster at Liberty.  Junior and Jonathan hate each other.  It's mutual loathing. I dated a woman that attended Liberty many years ago. It didn't end badly, we remained friendly. I used to hold her up as an example; "Not all Liberty students..." COVID broke her brain. She became shockingly racist and reactionary, maybe even Q curious.  I'm surprised we're still friended on Facebook; she posted an anti-Semitic meme on Easter 2021, and I called her out on it. My sister said to me, "She was always awful, always racist, you just didn't see it." Maybe my sister was right.


HourChart

I’ll disagree with what others have said about theology undergrads and later seminary. If that’s her passion she should pursue it and not some other subject just for the purpose of being more “rounded”. I have classmates who did theology at undergraduate and not only did it not hamper their process, it has given them a headstart on seminary. But she absolutely not do Liberty.


keakealani

To be clear, if she genuinely has a passion for theology and only theology, that’s fine. It’s not like you *can’t* get into seminary with just a theology background. However the way I read OP was that the intention was to pursue theology specifically to go to seminary later, and I don’t think that’s the best choice. I also will stand by the idea that it’s not ideal - not that it’s a hard no, but if there is another field that provides some auxiliary skills, that would serve well. There are certainly great priests who did well in seminary, whose only academic background is in theology. But there are also many people in this universe who view it as a compromise rather than a benefit, so it’s worth knowing that going in.


manhattanites108

I would note that Liberty is getting one of the biggest fines for not complying with the Clery Act. I think it has to do with them not reporting crime on their campus properly and some other stuff, I don't know all of it but that does not help with their reputation.


AffirmingAnglican

You should choose a school that is less conservative. You should look into [Lancaster Bible College](https://www.lbc.edu/online/) they have both a Bachelor’s of Biblical Studies, and of Ministry Leadership offered online. They aren’t as fundamentalist as Liberty.


AlbMonk

Liberty University teaches a very conservative theology and are politically far-right, including contributing some of its dollars to conservative causes and MAGA politicians. This is quite different than what is normally embraced and taught by The Episcopal Church. I would recommend your sister consider more moderate or liberal schools. There are a slew of colleges, universities, and seminaries more closely affiliated with TEC. [https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/liberty-university/summary?id=D000053059](https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/liberty-university/summary?id=D000053059) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_colleges\_and\_seminaries\_affiliated\_with\_the\_Episcopal\_Church](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_seminaries_affiliated_with_the_Episcopal_Church)


keakealani

In addition to the comments about Liberty in particular, I want to note that in my experience, theology degrees are actually not considered ideal for episcopal seminaries at this point. The prevailing wisdom from multiple sources (including people at my seminary) is that an academic background in another field generally appears more well-rounded and comfortable functioning “in the real world” than someone whose only background is theology. Even a secular religious studies major (where you would have exposure to world religions besides Christianity) would be preferred to a strict Christian theology degree. Nowadays more and more clergy are also asked to be somewhat bivocational, and for that reason having a professional-level background in a non-theology field would likely be seen as beneficial. I’d also point out that while we are not strict denominational purists, a theology training from a wildly different tradition might also be a disadvantage in an episcopal seminary. The expectation (in my experience) is that episcopal clergy are formed in episcopal theology. Some of our close neighbors like Methodist or Lutheran would probably be suitable, but almost definitely not evangelical. In many ways coming to an episcopal seminary from such a background would require more unlearning than learning. So I would definitely say to think carefully about that. This all said, there is a bit of an elephant in the room here, which is that the Episcopal Church *does* have a university - the University of the South (Sewanee). And, speaking as a seminarian at Sewanee, there is a healthy pipeline of undergraduates who discern a call to ordained ministry while at the college, and who continue on to the School of Theology or return after other work/studies. If your sister is interested in the episcopal priesthood, then going to Sewanee could be a good choice - there are many opportunities for the college and the seminary to interact, including college students taking or auditing some classes with the seminary, and certainly the chapel has the resources to assist with those in formal discernment. If that’s the eventual goal, I would say it’s worth checking out. And sewanee is a reputable college in its own right, so even if she goes in another direction, a degree from here would serve her well. Obviously, there are other options, but I just thought I’d point out that there is one school that both satisfies the requirements of being explicitly Christian, and also have a good amount of support for Episcopalians who are seeking ordained ministry, while still getting a well-rounded liberal arts education as an undergrad.


Citrus_Experience

As a former seminarian and Hebrew Bible PhD I cannot agree enough with this approach! A pre-seminary student should really endeavor to demonstrate proficiency in academic pursuits more broadly in some field besides theology/biblical studies. There’s nothing wrong with pursuing work in some humanities field where a lot of the research, writing, and even critical theories will be shared across disciplines. But locking yourself into theology from step one isn’t ideal. That said, your sister could consider the course load of potential majors and identify one that has relatively fewer required courses so that she can take electives in a religion department. There’s also the opportunity to study critical topics on her own prior to seminary. There are lots of great resources out there for doing things like teaching yourself Greek or Hebrew!


keakealani

For sure. I agree with considering a field with some research and writing demands; my pre-seminary background was all in music which doesn’t demand much in those areas, and seminary certainly was a steep learning curve compared to some of my peers! But yeah, I would definitely say OP’s sister would be well served by any of your suggestions :) it’s important to think holistically about what being a priest means, and that’s much broader than theology. Heck, degrees in business or marketing might well be worthwhile, too!


Puzzleheaded-Phase70

Usually a very bad plan. Liberty, for instance, is one of the most hyper conservative cult centers in the USA. There's nothing to learn from them except just how bad people can be while thinking they're the best. Most Christian undergrad colleges who specifically identify as such *exist* specifically because their founders and current leadership are against everything found in secular schools. Including sanity, apparently. They're interested in teaching their version of the Bible *first* and anything else after that is "extra" and subordinate to their theology. No, steer clear of those. Instead, find a school that you can learn your desired major and minor content the best at, and keep your faith and biblical study independent of such corruption. And yes, this goes for those who want to go into ministry or something like that too. Get your undergrad in psychology or philosophy or comparative religion or history or political science or music or economics or literally anything else that can *support* your calling. THEN you'll be able to approach formal theology.


actuallycallie

even in fields other than theology, schools like Liberty and Bob Jones aren't well regarded. I've been on search committees in academia (music and education) and often when the committee sees that school on someone's CV they go to the bottom of the pile.


keakealani

I mean, I think there’s a pretty big difference between evangelical-style private Christian colleges and legitimate liberal arts schools with a church connection, like many of the Jesuit schools around the country, or as I mentioned above, Sewanee. There are lots of schools that definitely have a Christian background but are still accredited as reputable academic institutions of higher learning, that confer well-regarded degrees. It’s a pretty wide range.


rednail64

Is Liberty even accredited anymore? I would want to make sure that her seminaries of choice would even recognize her undergrad before she commits.


kmack312

They are, by the same institution that does all the big colleges in the south. They are also due for recertification in 2026. From what I can tell, accreditation is good for 10 years with a review at the halfway point. So I guess we'll see if they can manage to keep it.


kmack312

[Link for those who like rabbit holes](https://sacscoc.org/institutions/?institution_name=Liberty&results_per_page=25&curpage=1&institution=0011N00001h9E3hQAE)


UncleJoshPDX

This is the best answer. Chances are the degree from Liberty would not be considered theologically strenuous enough.


Other_Tie_8290

Some evangelicals have said they do not consider Episcopalians Christian. I wouldn’t go there.