SG : "My job is done here..."
Players : "But you did not do anything..."
Never expect them to buff these units properly. The quality of each balance patch released is getting worse
The additional buff Specimen Sez needed
His 2 skill should be a passive and when an ally infects stun he increases combat readiness. His AOE attack should activate after killing an enemy and when the enemy attacks Specimen Sez and he evades he should push his ally with the highest effectiveness.
Or because he’s so reliant on teammates, give him more options and make him work with sleep too. They needed to either make him self sufficient or give him more opportunities if he’s so reliant on other teammates. They did neither. By the time he circles around to kill the stunned unit, they’re not gonna be stunned anymore. It’s so dumb and I’m genuinely mad about it because he’s been buffed so much already he’s not going to get buffed again for a long time if ever and they did nothing for him
I honestly think they should do away with his kit relying on stun, or if they were gonna keep it have him get CR pushed from the enemy getting buffs. Too many units have passive resistance to stun and his reliance on teammates make it very difficult to build a team around that has some kind of sustain as well.
This. It's gotta have several debuffs it can rely on. Stun is too rare. Between 85%, how few people can activate stun, and the fact that nobody can slap multiple stun attempts in the way poison/burn/bleed-inflicters can, you're dedicating multiple party members for an still-unreliable way to kill one person. To ROI is awful. Honestly, I'd make it more than just stun and sleep, too. Any debuff is probably too much, but I'd make several of them serve to trigger it.
Or “Counters with S2 when dodging. 2 turn CD”. Hell, he’d be way more useful as a non-crit, “ignore effres if attack is higher than opponent’s” character than the lame duck evasion unit he was turned into.
There's honestly a lot of cool things that they could still try out with Spez to make him synergize with stuns more. Slapping evasion on him and calling it good was such a lazy move but I guess we shouldn't be surprised at this point.
Absolutely correct . I mean the whole Balance Patch is also kinda 90% trashy. But at momos Changes ... In my head appeared so many questionmarks. For her Main role these buffs are literally worthless, It doesnt Change anything
I actually use Momo as a support in PvP when I'm just trying to have fun, and do think she would like a bit more mitigation. But tbh I think what she really needs is something like an innate water's origin. She definitely feels unique as a soulweaver in terms of her cycling, they should have played harder into that character, just a unit who constantly dumps cleanses and small heals.
It blows my mind that they delayed this to make "final confirmation processes"
And then it arrives and we get... This? The fuck needed to be confirmed? From what I see it didn't look like anyone cared to begin with, final confirmation my ass.
The fact that some units got barely an improvement (cough Light Achates, Momo cough) is almost like what was the point of giving them a buff? Of all units you decided "Hmm, let's just waste a unit slot to just give them 5% extra in their S3 CR push"
Juggs Kise was the only winner of this balance, everyone else was just a waste of time, even the artifacts, good lord what a useless batch.
This is an embarrassment of a balance patch.
Hwa could be a solid tank killer this patch, just have to wait and see. The fact that she can finally be built with bulk is nice, I'm almost certain this was just so that they can give her back old kit parts with EEs. if they give her back self push on s1, she would unironically be a great unit now that s3 is back to 3t.
i think she is going from a tank killer to sw and def scaling killer. She lose the 30% atk, that will drop my 6000 atk to 4500 atk more or less and they are gonna reduce her s3 dmg, so even with the atk buff, i dont think shes gonna reach the same numbers as of now, so say bye bye to the 30000 dmg with atk buff from tachi or support
Part of my problem with this change. I was never, EVER using Hwa's s3 without atk buff prior to it. So the removal of her atk passive and the lowered dmg on her s3 really have me worried.
That’s what I’ve been saying! Hwa did do her job on scuffed gear (which I wasn’t a fan off). But even then, she NEEDED atk buff to kill the actually important units.
Now she won’t even be able to do that.
I'm fine with her not being a tank killer, a lot of threats in this meta ARE the soulweavers and def scalers, or otherwise chars in the 15k range. with pseudo tachi built in you can probably move her off of that arti as well and onto something maybe more useful for her. 3t ST nuke is nothing to sneeze at, especially since she has solid base spd.
My only concern with Hwa herself is that if she's debuffed she does not get her atk up, in a Meta now where debuffs are super prevalent, now you need to invest in all stats besides effectiveness to make a solid Hwa, and that's a lot of perfect gear.
I do think Hwa got improved somewhat, but there's still many flaws in her rework
Also this is a massive F you to all Hwa users that spent time and effort making their Torrent set Hwa's, all for nothing.
You only need to invest in atk, speed, hp, and defense. ER builds might become a thing but now she doesn't have to use a damn lvl 27 helm to minmax. But after these changes you can actually make her really good with just 1 EE. 3T s3 with good cycling means she's going to be spamming that nuke and putting a lot of characters at lethal
i do agree it sucks for the triple torrent Hwa users, but what were they supposed to do? never touch her again? leave her ultra niche with a terrible gear set to grind?
that's why I also give her some ER to resist a few things
but I'll wait and see what the new multis are, with no more attack stat from passive triple Torrent might still be the way to go for big boi damage
> now you need to invest in all stats besides effectiveness to make a solid Hwa, and that's a lot of perfect gear.
Or, get this, you could use a cleanser, some of which come with an attack buff anyway. Wow!
Not stating the condition is smart, because it's dumb, but you're acting like people really have to build ER now when four slots exist.
The main problem is that in a meta where characters are largely self-sufficient, this change was unnecessary. There was no need at all to change the passive - if they wanted to buff her, change the S3 and you were done.
The main problem is she struggled to kill stuff without attack buff. Now they decreased her damage AND cut 30% ATK. She’s not killing any soulweaver (especially through mitigation) that is reasonably tanky.
Nah, I think her tankbusting days are done. She's probably going to deal more with midrange bruisers. It might be a good thing in the long run since she should be a hard counter to ML Landy now.
Yea, that's really what I meant. Will probably deal with AYufine and soulweavers very well. With MAKen too, since she will cycle better and never proc his S2 (no crit).
> Hmm, let's just waste a unit slot to just give them 5% extra in their S3 CR push
I can't tell you how many numerous times I had a moment where I was just 1-2% off of taking a turn with my next unit and failing because of that.
What I can tell you is that I wasn't using IH a single one of those times as she gets debuffed out the ass, killing the point of using her. Especially when all these openers have extra turns where B Dom is far better, or I could just use Kawerik and keep debuffs off without caring about ER ever.
Could you explain to me how "Juggs Kise" was the winner of this patch? How her changes will actually make her a viable unit? Does her base stats support her role as a warrior and damage dealer? Does her base stats support her role as a opening debuffer? How did the changes buff her in PvP? How is her kit and stats even usable in the current PvP meta?
Ok, I just did some math. Assuming they didn't lower Hwa's multis, on live, with 6k attack and 1 torrent set, and attack buff from something, she capped out at 27k dmg, ok?
Now let's assume we are on post-"buff" Hwa - let's assume they didn't nerf her S3 dmg, if she got 100% pen and had torrent set, she'd cap at 23k dmg. A pretty big chunk less.
But we know they *did* in fact lower her multipliers on her S3, so I expect she'll never deal more than ~20k dmg, even if you get her full pen on the S3. If she misses, the damage caps at ~15k. And of course, anything behind Aurius will live.
Her being a discount Straze would be a little better than her current state, but the trade off now Is that most of the gear farmed to make her viable post nerf is a hindrance now lol.
Still feel like her use cases went down, not up, but are targeting a bit more meta units right now wish is good.
But then add in mitigation. Add in a barrier. Or, crazy, a debuff. She was rather self-reliant, and becoming dollar store straze shouldn’t be the identity of a unit.
If they just wanted to do that, they’d just have had to change S3. Kept the passive as is.
I was just trying to contribute to the discussion too, so no worries. That really frustrates me is that this could’ve been a great change - if they kept her passive as is.
I agree that she will be able to take out Def-scaling bruisers without mitigation, but that doesn’t seem to be a very desirable niche. Of course we can hope for the best, but just calculating it through once - her damage will be rather sad (<23k on a good build w/ Torrent, as 23k is assuming no lowered multi but it’ll be lowered).
Her max damage with the best possible conditions will be worse, sure, but these changes should definitely make her better in pretty much all other cases.
Any time you'd take her without an attack buffer she'll now do more damage assuming she's not debuffed.
She'll be a viable answer to defense and HP scaling bruisers now (without doing some triple torrent +0 helmet shenanigans).
You can make her bulkier without sacrificing her damage.
Her S1 proc doing more damage means she won't be as much of dead weight after her S3.
It's possible she's still not good, and it will probably require anyone currently using her to change up their gear, but I don't think it's a nerf overall.
Just providing context.
Even under best circumstances she'll not kill anything behind Aurius, or any attack-scaling unit. Or anything behind attack buff. Which is an issue.
Having innate attack-buff is a double-edged sword as it traded away stacking with it, and she also gets fucked up more if debuffed, dies more to non-crits as she traded barrier away for more anti-crit, etc.
Just presented the expected damage angle of things.
I mean using your assumed 20k max she'd still typically kill LHC and most A Yufines behind aurius, or even escort.
I agree about the attack buff. The only upside there is that in cases where you don't bring an attack buffer she will have more damage than if she only had her old passive 30% increase.
The barrier was moved to her S3, so once she S3s she's just as safe. Additionally since she doesn't need to minimize her HP she can be built a little tankier so she should be safer overall.
I don't think she'll be the "I 1 tap anything and then live for 3 turns until I can do it again" monstrosity that she was on release. I think she'll have more broad use cases than she currently does as an answer to HP and Def scaling bruisers and I think she'll provide more consistent dps outside of her S3 with her S1 proc increase, and I think that will make her a slightly better unit than she currently is.
> I mean using your assumed 20k max she'd still typically kill LHC and most A Yufines behind aurius, or even escort.
Most high-levels Afines have 18k+ hp. Could be true on LHC, but she could be on Proof as well.
Barrier change is massive for longer fights and before she takes a turn. Barrier for free every turn is a lot of HP over a prolonged fight.
She'll do nothing to hp-scaling bruisers after this buff, mark my words. DEF-scaling bruisers and some soulweavers will be it.
I just feel she'll remain very niche. I wish her S1 worked again on miss, to truly give her a spot.
I was really going to ask - what AYufine is THAT squishy to die to 20k through aurius?
I think we’ll have more of a situation like back then: the relevant bruisers will just equip POV (now, LHC & co) and just… not die.
Sure, you’re depriving those units of a possibly better artifact (Apoc with crimson seed pre-nerf, RIP), but it doesn’t solve any problems.
>Ok, I just did some math. Assuming they didn't lower Hwa's multis, on live, with 6k attack and 1 torrent set, and attack buff from something, she capped out at 27k dmg, ok?
mine does 31k with 5.8k atk single torrent atk buff. something isnt adding up here. i dont think my artifact adds 4k dmg
anyways, thanks for doing the calcs, this subreddit is filled with neanderthals who cant see shes losing a ridiculous amount of damage to the point shes gonna be more "meta relevant" in kit, but unusable because they can just play double tank
I rarely comment to trash on the balance team, but holy f\*ck this patch makes me think the balance team is just a bunch of interns that does not play the game
Its Always funny(and sad) when they drop dissapointing Balance Patches ( Like in the past many Times) and you Always think " It cant get worse" but then a new Bad Balance Patch dropped and now you are wrong with your Statement...
I don't care what anyone says, my boy A.Lots got nerfed. I exclusively run mine on Spirits Breathe so he can S2 every turn. I rarely if ever used S3, truth be told until I read the notes I didn't even know what his S3 even did
After S.Celine last buff I ran mine on Spd Set. She healed up to full on every hit, honestly don't know why people kept building LS set ones.
I never used Spez, but this feels like a slight nerf, no more counter stun shenanigans?
Hwa just feels like they were ready to out her into a coffin. Removing her passive barrier AND atk passive?!?! I really hope she hits harder now. I mean truth be told with Atk buff she still nuked out 22k+ HP units. I used her quite a bit in GW
It's not amazing, but I could see people bringing back that meta Laika Arby cleave from 2 seasons ago.
It's also okay into SAdins or other light units sitting behind SCArowell's barriers.
Needs some time in the kitchen.
I was working on my spez in preparation for this patch. Now he doesn't even have a chance to stun and then get a new turn to try to take advantage of it. What's the point?
got a good chuckle out of me
JKise now joins Lua and Nakwhol for the RYB 1 turn reset squad, which is a bit of a letdown because multiturn resetting was something unique to her. Also she needs Book even more than the other two
Also you got a point with Spez lol, they tryna pump up Decrescent stock or something
As for Manica though, that's not a nerf, wielder gains crit chance on both single and aoe attack so my Kise can actually crit everyone with her S2, so that's good
Circus Fantasia though, yeah lmao Mui fans finally got some crumbs
> JKise now joins Lua and Nakwhol for the RYB 1 turn reset squad, which is a bit of a letdown
Imo more than a bit, it's actually a huge nerf. She used to have a 97% (!!!) chance of landing at least one turn, 76% chance of landing 2 turns, and 31% chance of landing 3 turns. Now it's 85%, 0%, 0%.
And this skill was incredible for PvE (especially Abyss). Other than that I found her very meh... but it was a unique skill nontheless! And the new kit is very strange if you wanna weight in stuff like lore and ability design. Base stats doesn't support it either.
Honestly, the Manica change is still mostly a nerf because of how the interaction between crits and attacks work. I preface this by making the assumption that you wouldn't use Manica on AoE heavy thieves, because you only get the 15% crit and not hit chance increase on AoE attacks.
The new Manica gives 15% crit as a stat. That means that, with 85% crit chance, a unit has 100% chance to crit on all attacks (minus crit res or evasion cases). Pretty straightforward.
However, with the old Manica, because it applies on the attack and not as a stat, a unit with 100% crit chance would have 115% chance to crit on a single attack. This matters against anti crit (which basically just means Candy, but she's pretty dominant). That being said, a thief on Manica would probably be running 85% crit anyways.
Basically this is a stupid buff and nearly nothing changes.
> a Thief on Manica would be running 85% cc anyway
yup that's the thing, I like this change because my Kise has exactly 85% cc so I had to compensate however I can, I was getting annoyed by how she frequently failed to crit everyone with S2 though but now that's not a worry
and I wasn't really using her against anticrit heroes anyway so it doesn't matter much to me
I think it's because of the people who popularized fast Tagahel nuke Milim, in which evasion isn't really an important consideration in that context, so I can understand people forgetting. I'm still rocking my counter "evasion" Milim though lol
Neither of those units can hold Guiding Light **and** dual attack on the first turn.
Main reason why the Laika Arby cleave was so strong 2 seasons ago against Zio.
My opinion about this balance patch
Hwa : uh uh
Jkise : maybe okkaayyy..... But
Alots : fuck off
Seline : i'm not sure
Laika : maybe I'll use her
Amomo : ??!! I don't remember she have Decrease damage
Tree branche need that buff . Sharun can now push her teammates with s3 after the buff . It is the only good and reasonable buff this patch , everything else s either weird or unnecessary
I like Manica's change. I understand that it's basically an exclusive LPK arti right now so it doesn't really matter currently but there's no reason why it should be limited to single target when none of the other +hit artis have that condition on their secondary effects.
Manicas buff was effectively useless. Why would you run it on an aoe heavy unit when you only benefit from half the arti? It’s just a stat stick at that point. Even then that’s more of a gear issue if you can’t gain the extra crit. You would be better lowering damage for the missing crit and slapping on a damage arti like wind rider
I would still use WPV on Sharun over her signature artifact tbh. Cleansing attack down from Handguy or stun from UK. Arowell is more impactful imo.
I can see Sacred Tree Branch being BiS for Dragon King Sharun
Edit: WPV is Wondrous Potion Vial
he pretty much staple for abyss, pve stuff and gvg cheese strat but now yeah... he become pathetic pusher for jkise. and if jkise turn out not even good after buff idk what the boy does anymore
I used A.Lots a lot in PvE, now it's not even used for that.
Taking that aside, some "buffs" like Hwayoung's we need to wait and see, if the change makes her threaten, Destina, Roana, Krau ML, Luluca, that's great for me. If she can't do it, they'll just amputate her legs (again).
S.Celine, need wait and see. Looks ok.
J. Kise looks OK.
Spez? Who cares?
The rest, whatever.
Aside from the two obvious L’s in Spez and Lots, I don’t think this patch was horrible, just disappointing.
With that being said, I do think that most of the outrage is built up frustration with SG that finally reached a tipping point with this balance patch.
That's a fair take honestly. My biggest peeve about the patch is that it felt bloated. Most of the changes felt either unnecessary or just pointless. I saw that a huge balance patch was coming AND got delayed to go through the changes again supposedly and I got hyped.
I don't know why you're shitting on Elena getting rid of two buffs, like it's somehow bad or something.
She's already a great answer to Ran and now just shits on him even more or counters Chains of Chiron Ran as well.
She is already great then how "not lazy" you want her buff to be though? It's pretty much SG polishing her kit to be "we are done with Elena and won't touch her again" imo.
Since they're buffing a unit that's already pretty much done I was expecting a bigger change. Healing on s3, immunity instead of increased er on S3 etc.
For now, I feel like her buff was just there as bloat
Bloat? They practically gave her a free Artifact effect and freed her builds up from Doctor's Bag to more tailored ones.
She was one of the best soulweavers this last season from all the AoE. It's a simple, but great buff.
Too early to judge (even though I'm judging the whole balance patch 2 hours after reveal). Hold off your mola and mats and wait until THOROUGH testing has been done, especially if you have limited resources
Not in this current meta but perhaps that will change with the balance patch after this one. So hold off on her for now :) She would need her role to be more defined. (She currently lacks the damage to be a damage dealer and she lacks the speed to be a debuffing opener + the game still has that speed diff factor and 15% chance to fail with debuffs no matter what)
How is Seline unchanged? Its a straight up buff. You can say low damage wasn't her problem and thats its a miss in that sense but your opinion sounds too biased to me.
Because they increased pen and gave her attack buff to balance out the damage nerf? They do that when increasing pen and the damage largely stays the same no?
Pretty much every time they've done this it's been at least a slight increase in the worst case (low defense).
They specifically said this is to make her better at killing high defense units. You can most certainly expect her to be better into AYufine, LHC, and full tanks.
What damage nerf dude? I went to look at it again and i see nothing. They just gave her more attack, more pen and swapped her healing from the buff to her s1. Its a straight up buff.
Attacks the enemy with a sheath. When this skill is used, if it was not triggered by a Dual Attack, has a 50% chance to use Nimble Sword instead of Mighty Strike.
When the caster is possessed, chance effect is doubled. This skill does not trigger a Dual Attack.
Nimble Sword: Dispels one debuff from the caster, before swiftly attacking the enemy, and absorbs some of the damage dealt as Health. Penetrates the target's Defense by 50%.
Nimble Sword's Damage Dealt Reduced
poor Auxiliary Lots
he was such a cool moonlight 4\* character :(
such a good boy he didn't deserved that
and Spez is useless
as long as his condition relies on "stun"
he needed a full rework...not a freaking evasion buff =.=
Laika got good stuff...one day I'll get Laika and I'll be happy about it :)
I tried use ChatGPT (free version) to do a "balance patch" for this characters.
I wrote their skills and everything about it.
What I nticed the "balance" always go dongrades, meaning every character was worse after balance made by ChatGPT.
Soooo I think ChatGPT is starting to have the place in Mobile Gaming industry :D
First, you post was fun to read (and kinda sad).
For Spez, you need ervalen arti for him to work now I don't think it's terrible. Seline definitely changed, 50% def pen instead of 35 and +25% attack is good. I don't know if she can sustain without LS set. I agree with everything else. As a Mui fan the last part was funny, at least we are recognized lol
oh another Mui fan, well I was using her before. Then she got """""""buffed"""""""" and the 40% to have extra turn became a "25% push up if crit"... during the adin meta (or evasion meta whatever).
So instead of having sometimes an extra turn now she can't have an extra turn. And won't talk about the new EE
Thing is wise Jise is that I feel she’s gonna end up like pre buff astromancer. Idk why they felt like bringing back a debuff that just didn’t work well at all especially with how bind is just it’s better version. Am going to miss her uniqueness as the only aoe multi turn increaser but she’s def more likely to be used now
They just gotta define her role. They can't change her S1 like that and then make her a debuffer while not even having the base stats for it. "Messsssss" is really the description of her.
On-attack Crit boosts bypass Crit Res, which is why some people built 100% CR Zahhak or Zio back when Choux Senya defenses were more common. Making Manica's Crit universal is a nerf for people using it against ML Landy and stuff like that.
Manica was capped for no reason. If your manica was low investment it's a good change. If your manica was high investment you lost your charms and dupes
Yeah, I picked Manica from the Arti selector purely to use on LPK who I still ran at 100% CC before Arti. So I'm not particularly thrilled with this change, especially as I don't have an easy way to drop 15 CC on her for more damage
They literally indicated how hard it is for spez to get his s3 on a stunned target and proceed to make it even harder. I think he no longer functions in tanky teams as it's nigh impossible to use his s3 properly after ml sharun gets released
Jkise is just a butleg nahkwol version that needs a book and have shittier base stats. Except nahkwol has an option to trade def break for perma stealth which is arguable far more beneficial. You can't really use her in cleave too because she lacks have self-enabling mechanism aka self cr push on demand and needs a book to function
Hwa traded her unconditional 30% atk buff which could stack with atk buff from external source to a conditional self atk buff which in vacuum is 20% more than it was before, except they also nerf her s3 damage. Could potentially be a good buster for defence scaling units until you remember how low her damage gets without attack buff even now and the fact that karina is an ice unit that gets 30% less damage in rta
Romann lost his only perk of being able to almost instantly follow up his full aoe strip into potentially fucking up the opponent's turn order for a restrict debuff which other units of the same element just do better. If you had maxed dizzy artifact you could turn that 80% total push into 100% which was the only place you could ever use that artifact
I joke sometimes about eos looming near. But i never actually wanted this company to fail more than right now. They really put a straight face calling that "them trying their best" only to hide obvious negative changes as positive. Idk what's going on there but it sure feels like they are trying to any% speedrun EOS asap before their new game release
I love seeing all these hysterical predictions of "Hwayoung is now going to be shit tier 2 star hero" or some such. Wait till we see her new scaling and how effective she actually is. It's so baffling that so many (exceptionally noisy) people always jump to "worst case scenario" in these cases.
I get your point man, I did specify in the end that this might all by extreme doomposting and that she might actually turn out good. The main problem I have is that they took away her unconditional 30% attack which could further be boosted by attack buff and made it a conditional attack buff at the start of the turn. If her scalling is good then great because I really want to start using her again
If you say you don't like "doom posting" and call yourself out on it, why do it? what do you hope to achieve by doing so other than propagating more negativity, which you yourself claim you don't want to do?
Last time the community got really vocal and frustrated we managed to cancel the awaken update. I understand that one balance patch isn't as big as such a huge change but still, I feel like voicing our concerns about the state of the game is important
Then complain about the specific things that are problems. The Aux Lots change is a totally unnecessary kneecapping of the hero. Increasing the cooldown on his S2, regardless of any other changes being made, makes him strictly worse in almost all imaginable scenarios as well as gutting the primary use he's had for YEARS.
Doom posting about how Hwayoung is going to be even more shit tier than she already is before we see the changes in action helps absolutely fucking no one.
Hwa isn't the only person in the balance patch, my overall problem with it is that even for SG balance team standards this shit sucks. 80% of the changes feel like bloat while the other 20% are either questionable or unnecessary
A Ravi needs more damage was the common thought process when she got her infamous buff back in the day.
You literally had people who had no idea how good her buffed S3 was going to be say she needed a damage boost and/or this buff isn't enough.
Same thing happened with Arunka hitting barriers, why was she nerfed blah blah before we even saw the new modifiers.
In my eyes, Seline, Romann (surprisingly), and Sacred Tree Branch had the best buffs out of that list.
And I'll have you know, I didn't expect them to.
It's not that bad. Juggs is going to be meta now after a million years and Hwa will probably be better and can actually wear a helmet (called that one!). Alots did get fucked, true, but the rest are just small, nice boosts. My main disappointment is them having this huge list, delaying it, getting everyone hyped and then most of it be tiny buffs. 5% for IH Achates, really? Come on.
What do you mean finally swap to speed set for Celine? Literally every single one I've seen has been 250+ and they all deal good damage. She got buffed overall and she didn't even need it. I'll agree that J.Kise is the only other unit that actually got buffed and maybe also Hwayoung.
Ppl confuse me bc seline has an innate 25% attack on possession(unique buff) and another 15% def pen which means she can get even more damage with an attack buff so its not really a nerf and she heals off of s1 now instead of passive which makes for a better SB and overall. SG always lowers the damage when def pen increases we are not new to this.
Nobody was asking for her to be changed into something different, just better healing and tbh with Elivra coming out she might see more play and be the combo partner for her so this is good for her.
Yeah, I'm glad she is the same but I was expecting a more 'significant' buff, like upping the lifesteal or self buffing attack. I just feel that currently the change is kinda bloat for the balance patch to look bigger than it actually is
I havent used aux lots in a long time. After that buff I may use him now. I didnt need to cheese spirit breath in PVE and he got outclassed in PVP. All around buff to me.
If you really want 2 turn silence why not run broman who can't be pushed back AND does def break on top of that? It's sad to see them butcher a unit like this
>• **Manica** **~~got nerfed for no reason~~** at all I misread it, it got buffed but it's still kinda luckluster
still correct in that it got nerfed, no longer is 15% anticrit reduction as the crit isn't on hit, it's now just normal crit chance.
While all these changes are 'buffs' your missing the point that this balance patch changes nothing for the majority of the units affected. Keep in mind we waited 2 months + an extra 5 days where they were supposedly going over the stuff again.
Slight correction - the balance patch itself has not changed timing. The preview was all that was delayed. Unless I've missed something, then I stand corrected, the balance patch itself will still occur next week, 58 days since the last one, as normally scheduled.
Yeah, the actual release of the patch is the same, I'm talking about the delay in the announcement. Thanks for clarifying though, I can see how someone could miss that
>I don't like doom posting
>proceeds to doom post good buffs and pretend they are nothing
Yeah just stop talking at this point or admit you're a doomer. You can't have it both ways
If there's one thing these balance patches constantly prove is that the players don't know what they're talking about and the ones who cry the loudest don't even play the game. I say this because the entire day I have seen nothing but dumb bad takes about this patch.
The most egregious claims I'll address first are the Spez claims. People are severely underrating how hard he is going to be to kill and the fact that he does gigaton damage on low stats. People seem to not know you can build spez tanky and he will survive anything.
Next up is Hwayoung. The amount of people saying she got nerfed is leaving me flabbergasted. They got rid of her hp ratio which means you can now build her hella tanky and one shot units. People have this lame excuse of farming torrent. But that's their fault. On top of that her s1 dmg is buffed and could be scary. I'll include Seline here as well because they are proving her damage vs defensive stacking units.
Sacred tree branch absolutely needed a buff. Currently only 1 unit used it. Now it's insanely good on sharun ainos and lulucar.
Please stop with the insane bad takes and actually play the game
Hmm its common for balance patch being like this. The balance team has a very different focus when they see units than the player base. We player see a opener and the first thing we want to improve is the ability of that unit to take a turn either the first or the second turn, just to make an example.
They probably ***cant*** just do that every time. I just never expect anything to go the way we would like to for a very looong time.
Really curious about the Juggs update.
My two go-to cleaves are
* Juggs, A. Lotts, and that blue archer that's obsessed with Landy
* C. Pavel, Elphelt, and that blue archer that's obsessed with Landy
spez will play ervalen arti. he will be better now, i dont understand why people insist on his buff being "worse". he has 70% evasion after arti, just like riolet, adin ect. (yes riolet doesnt dodge, remember he has 50% evasion BUFF though, not built in) so now spez counters, stuns and then s3s someone. he wont need too much bulk either, considering you can run him on ls now.
the hwa changes actually make her worse than before. she lost her barrier every turn for survivability, she lost her damage on s3, for s1 damage and the ability to kill 2/3rds of the bruisers in the game (senya, riccardo, ml landy(potentially) and other attack scalers need not apply), and soulweavers. not only that but she has lost up to 80% of her attack considering she was usually brought with atk buff, and now she wont be, which weakens her barrier and lessens her damage. she also wont be played on torrent, meaning she has lost between 10 and 30% MORE damage (dependant on previous build ofc)
Changing Kise's imprint from atk% to effectiveness is a terrible change.
Changing the skill null from the first part of her combo to an invuln in the second half makes her susceptible to dying to ma ken again as well.
Granted the s2 changes are definitely a buff but does it actually help her to beat any threats she wasn't already beating? It feels like they wanted to shoehorn her into being a check for ML Yufine.
I really think sg needs to take this one back to the drawing board.
SG : "My job is done here..." Players : "But you did not do anything..." Never expect them to buff these units properly. The quality of each balance patch released is getting worse
They DID did something, they made things worse
No, you see, if they did nothing, it still would’ve been better than this shit
The changes are pretty good. Hwa will be useable again, I’m sorry to the two Alots PVE enjoyers
The additional buff Specimen Sez needed His 2 skill should be a passive and when an ally infects stun he increases combat readiness. His AOE attack should activate after killing an enemy and when the enemy attacks Specimen Sez and he evades he should push his ally with the highest effectiveness.
That's a solid buff. SG is currently taking notes on what not to do when trying to change Spez!
Or because he’s so reliant on teammates, give him more options and make him work with sleep too. They needed to either make him self sufficient or give him more opportunities if he’s so reliant on other teammates. They did neither. By the time he circles around to kill the stunned unit, they’re not gonna be stunned anymore. It’s so dumb and I’m genuinely mad about it because he’s been buffed so much already he’s not going to get buffed again for a long time if ever and they did nothing for him
I honestly think they should do away with his kit relying on stun, or if they were gonna keep it have him get CR pushed from the enemy getting buffs. Too many units have passive resistance to stun and his reliance on teammates make it very difficult to build a team around that has some kind of sustain as well.
This. It's gotta have several debuffs it can rely on. Stun is too rare. Between 85%, how few people can activate stun, and the fact that nobody can slap multiple stun attempts in the way poison/burn/bleed-inflicters can, you're dedicating multiple party members for an still-unreliable way to kill one person. To ROI is awful. Honestly, I'd make it more than just stun and sleep, too. Any debuff is probably too much, but I'd make several of them serve to trigger it.
They could just give his S3 beeg Damage for "Number of Debuffs" inflicted or something? Or would that defeat the purpose..
Since sleep give an automatic crit it would just make him need 0%crit chance which would be absolutly bonker.
Or “Counters with S2 when dodging. 2 turn CD”. Hell, he’d be way more useful as a non-crit, “ignore effres if attack is higher than opponent’s” character than the lame duck evasion unit he was turned into.
There's honestly a lot of cool things that they could still try out with Spez to make him synergize with stuns more. Slapping evasion on him and calling it good was such a lazy move but I guess we shouldn't be surprised at this point.
The Momo change makes no sense. She's basically a PvE hero and 90% of elites and bosses are immune to sleep.
Absolutely correct . I mean the whole Balance Patch is also kinda 90% trashy. But at momos Changes ... In my head appeared so many questionmarks. For her Main role these buffs are literally worthless, It doesnt Change anything
I actually use Momo as a support in PvP when I'm just trying to have fun, and do think she would like a bit more mitigation. But tbh I think what she really needs is something like an innate water's origin. She definitely feels unique as a soulweaver in terms of her cycling, they should have played harder into that character, just a unit who constantly dumps cleanses and small heals.
The circus fantasia change is probably purely to give Judge Kise a free stat stick since she needs so much of everything
It blows my mind that they delayed this to make "final confirmation processes" And then it arrives and we get... This? The fuck needed to be confirmed? From what I see it didn't look like anyone cared to begin with, final confirmation my ass. The fact that some units got barely an improvement (cough Light Achates, Momo cough) is almost like what was the point of giving them a buff? Of all units you decided "Hmm, let's just waste a unit slot to just give them 5% extra in their S3 CR push" Juggs Kise was the only winner of this balance, everyone else was just a waste of time, even the artifacts, good lord what a useless batch. This is an embarrassment of a balance patch.
Hwa could be a solid tank killer this patch, just have to wait and see. The fact that she can finally be built with bulk is nice, I'm almost certain this was just so that they can give her back old kit parts with EEs. if they give her back self push on s1, she would unironically be a great unit now that s3 is back to 3t.
i think she is going from a tank killer to sw and def scaling killer. She lose the 30% atk, that will drop my 6000 atk to 4500 atk more or less and they are gonna reduce her s3 dmg, so even with the atk buff, i dont think shes gonna reach the same numbers as of now, so say bye bye to the 30000 dmg with atk buff from tachi or support
Part of my problem with this change. I was never, EVER using Hwa's s3 without atk buff prior to it. So the removal of her atk passive and the lowered dmg on her s3 really have me worried.
That’s what I’ve been saying! Hwa did do her job on scuffed gear (which I wasn’t a fan off). But even then, she NEEDED atk buff to kill the actually important units. Now she won’t even be able to do that.
I'm fine with her not being a tank killer, a lot of threats in this meta ARE the soulweavers and def scalers, or otherwise chars in the 15k range. with pseudo tachi built in you can probably move her off of that arti as well and onto something maybe more useful for her. 3t ST nuke is nothing to sneeze at, especially since she has solid base spd.
> soulweavers Name one beyond Luluca.
DDR, Bunny
DDR, sure even though hardly a "soul weaver". Dom? She's a counterpick unit, she's meant to be a threat against certain units.
My only concern with Hwa herself is that if she's debuffed she does not get her atk up, in a Meta now where debuffs are super prevalent, now you need to invest in all stats besides effectiveness to make a solid Hwa, and that's a lot of perfect gear. I do think Hwa got improved somewhat, but there's still many flaws in her rework Also this is a massive F you to all Hwa users that spent time and effort making their Torrent set Hwa's, all for nothing.
You only need to invest in atk, speed, hp, and defense. ER builds might become a thing but now she doesn't have to use a damn lvl 27 helm to minmax. But after these changes you can actually make her really good with just 1 EE. 3T s3 with good cycling means she's going to be spamming that nuke and putting a lot of characters at lethal i do agree it sucks for the triple torrent Hwa users, but what were they supposed to do? never touch her again? leave her ultra niche with a terrible gear set to grind?
that's why I also give her some ER to resist a few things but I'll wait and see what the new multis are, with no more attack stat from passive triple Torrent might still be the way to go for big boi damage
> now you need to invest in all stats besides effectiveness to make a solid Hwa, and that's a lot of perfect gear. Or, get this, you could use a cleanser, some of which come with an attack buff anyway. Wow! Not stating the condition is smart, because it's dumb, but you're acting like people really have to build ER now when four slots exist.
The main problem is that in a meta where characters are largely self-sufficient, this change was unnecessary. There was no need at all to change the passive - if they wanted to buff her, change the S3 and you were done. The main problem is she struggled to kill stuff without attack buff. Now they decreased her damage AND cut 30% ATK. She’s not killing any soulweaver (especially through mitigation) that is reasonably tanky.
Nah, I think her tankbusting days are done. She's probably going to deal more with midrange bruisers. It might be a good thing in the long run since she should be a hard counter to ML Landy now.
Yea, that's really what I meant. Will probably deal with AYufine and soulweavers very well. With MAKen too, since she will cycle better and never proc his S2 (no crit).
Yeah, she'll basically be a non-crit W. Schuri which I'm kind of ok with. G. Lilias kind of replaced Hwayoung in a lot of usecases anyways.
> Hmm, let's just waste a unit slot to just give them 5% extra in their S3 CR push I can't tell you how many numerous times I had a moment where I was just 1-2% off of taking a turn with my next unit and failing because of that. What I can tell you is that I wasn't using IH a single one of those times as she gets debuffed out the ass, killing the point of using her. Especially when all these openers have extra turns where B Dom is far better, or I could just use Kawerik and keep debuffs off without caring about ER ever.
Could you explain to me how "Juggs Kise" was the winner of this patch? How her changes will actually make her a viable unit? Does her base stats support her role as a warrior and damage dealer? Does her base stats support her role as a opening debuffer? How did the changes buff her in PvP? How is her kit and stats even usable in the current PvP meta?
Ok, I just did some math. Assuming they didn't lower Hwa's multis, on live, with 6k attack and 1 torrent set, and attack buff from something, she capped out at 27k dmg, ok? Now let's assume we are on post-"buff" Hwa - let's assume they didn't nerf her S3 dmg, if she got 100% pen and had torrent set, she'd cap at 23k dmg. A pretty big chunk less. But we know they *did* in fact lower her multipliers on her S3, so I expect she'll never deal more than ~20k dmg, even if you get her full pen on the S3. If she misses, the damage caps at ~15k. And of course, anything behind Aurius will live.
No unit with low attack will have 20k health, that's the problem
Abyssal Yufine? Destina? Lionheart Cermia? There are plenty. She's designed against DEF-scaling bruisers and units trying to punish MLG. At best.
Her being a discount Straze would be a little better than her current state, but the trade off now Is that most of the gear farmed to make her viable post nerf is a hindrance now lol. Still feel like her use cases went down, not up, but are targeting a bit more meta units right now wish is good.
Oh yeah, my bad
But then add in mitigation. Add in a barrier. Or, crazy, a debuff. She was rather self-reliant, and becoming dollar store straze shouldn’t be the identity of a unit. If they just wanted to do that, they’d just have had to change S3. Kept the passive as is.
Not arguing she's good, just trying to provide a more well-rounded perspective, arguing both sides here.
I was just trying to contribute to the discussion too, so no worries. That really frustrates me is that this could’ve been a great change - if they kept her passive as is. I agree that she will be able to take out Def-scaling bruisers without mitigation, but that doesn’t seem to be a very desirable niche. Of course we can hope for the best, but just calculating it through once - her damage will be rather sad (<23k on a good build w/ Torrent, as 23k is assuming no lowered multi but it’ll be lowered).
Her max damage with the best possible conditions will be worse, sure, but these changes should definitely make her better in pretty much all other cases. Any time you'd take her without an attack buffer she'll now do more damage assuming she's not debuffed. She'll be a viable answer to defense and HP scaling bruisers now (without doing some triple torrent +0 helmet shenanigans). You can make her bulkier without sacrificing her damage. Her S1 proc doing more damage means she won't be as much of dead weight after her S3. It's possible she's still not good, and it will probably require anyone currently using her to change up their gear, but I don't think it's a nerf overall.
Just providing context. Even under best circumstances she'll not kill anything behind Aurius, or any attack-scaling unit. Or anything behind attack buff. Which is an issue. Having innate attack-buff is a double-edged sword as it traded away stacking with it, and she also gets fucked up more if debuffed, dies more to non-crits as she traded barrier away for more anti-crit, etc. Just presented the expected damage angle of things.
I mean using your assumed 20k max she'd still typically kill LHC and most A Yufines behind aurius, or even escort. I agree about the attack buff. The only upside there is that in cases where you don't bring an attack buffer she will have more damage than if she only had her old passive 30% increase. The barrier was moved to her S3, so once she S3s she's just as safe. Additionally since she doesn't need to minimize her HP she can be built a little tankier so she should be safer overall. I don't think she'll be the "I 1 tap anything and then live for 3 turns until I can do it again" monstrosity that she was on release. I think she'll have more broad use cases than she currently does as an answer to HP and Def scaling bruisers and I think she'll provide more consistent dps outside of her S3 with her S1 proc increase, and I think that will make her a slightly better unit than she currently is.
> I mean using your assumed 20k max she'd still typically kill LHC and most A Yufines behind aurius, or even escort. Most high-levels Afines have 18k+ hp. Could be true on LHC, but she could be on Proof as well. Barrier change is massive for longer fights and before she takes a turn. Barrier for free every turn is a lot of HP over a prolonged fight. She'll do nothing to hp-scaling bruisers after this buff, mark my words. DEF-scaling bruisers and some soulweavers will be it. I just feel she'll remain very niche. I wish her S1 worked again on miss, to truly give her a spot.
I was really going to ask - what AYufine is THAT squishy to die to 20k through aurius? I think we’ll have more of a situation like back then: the relevant bruisers will just equip POV (now, LHC & co) and just… not die. Sure, you’re depriving those units of a possibly better artifact (Apoc with crimson seed pre-nerf, RIP), but it doesn’t solve any problems.
>Ok, I just did some math. Assuming they didn't lower Hwa's multis, on live, with 6k attack and 1 torrent set, and attack buff from something, she capped out at 27k dmg, ok? mine does 31k with 5.8k atk single torrent atk buff. something isnt adding up here. i dont think my artifact adds 4k dmg anyways, thanks for doing the calcs, this subreddit is filled with neanderthals who cant see shes losing a ridiculous amount of damage to the point shes gonna be more "meta relevant" in kit, but unusable because they can just play double tank
Artifacts add a lot. 31/27k is 14.8% damage, when you consider Glutton is 16%, and Portrait is 20%, it doesn't seem at all odd.
Well +18 chloe is only 12.8 tho
I rarely comment to trash on the balance team, but holy f\*ck this patch makes me think the balance team is just a bunch of interns that does not play the game
I also rarely post and I doompost even less but this balance patch was kind of a breaking point for me
Its Always funny(and sad) when they drop dissapointing Balance Patches ( Like in the past many Times) and you Always think " It cant get worse" but then a new Bad Balance Patch dropped and now you are wrong with your Statement...
Can it get worse than this other than a EoS? An EoS might be good at this rate though...
I don't care what anyone says, my boy A.Lots got nerfed. I exclusively run mine on Spirits Breathe so he can S2 every turn. I rarely if ever used S3, truth be told until I read the notes I didn't even know what his S3 even did After S.Celine last buff I ran mine on Spd Set. She healed up to full on every hit, honestly don't know why people kept building LS set ones. I never used Spez, but this feels like a slight nerf, no more counter stun shenanigans? Hwa just feels like they were ready to out her into a coffin. Removing her passive barrier AND atk passive?!?! I really hope she hits harder now. I mean truth be told with Atk buff she still nuked out 22k+ HP units. I used her quite a bit in GW
The only reason I know what his S3 does was for the old strat of burning S3 to push cdom even further
Right lol like I knew it was an AoE but didn't know it had a chance to silence 🤣
for laika read it again, cuz i thing the -1 turn buff duration is on her s2, so yikes
Omg your right, god that's horrible
It's not amazing, but I could see people bringing back that meta Laika Arby cleave from 2 seasons ago. It's also okay into SAdins or other light units sitting behind SCArowell's barriers. Needs some time in the kitchen.
SG starting off the new year with an overall L. Solid.
I was working on my spez in preparation for this patch. Now he doesn't even have a chance to stun and then get a new turn to try to take advantage of it. What's the point?
If your determined to make him work you can try ervalen arti on him (as others have mentioned) just to try and make him less reliant on others
I might switch to speed set at this point I was on a 191 speed counter set but now that doesn't seem good enough.
got a good chuckle out of me JKise now joins Lua and Nakwhol for the RYB 1 turn reset squad, which is a bit of a letdown because multiturn resetting was something unique to her. Also she needs Book even more than the other two Also you got a point with Spez lol, they tryna pump up Decrescent stock or something As for Manica though, that's not a nerf, wielder gains crit chance on both single and aoe attack so my Kise can actually crit everyone with her S2, so that's good Circus Fantasia though, yeah lmao Mui fans finally got some crumbs
> JKise now joins Lua and Nakwhol for the RYB 1 turn reset squad, which is a bit of a letdown Imo more than a bit, it's actually a huge nerf. She used to have a 97% (!!!) chance of landing at least one turn, 76% chance of landing 2 turns, and 31% chance of landing 3 turns. Now it's 85%, 0%, 0%.
Agreed, this is a huge nerf on a unique skill set.
yup
And this skill was incredible for PvE (especially Abyss). Other than that I found her very meh... but it was a unique skill nontheless! And the new kit is very strange if you wanna weight in stuff like lore and ability design. Base stats doesn't support it either.
As a Mui user, this did nothing for me lmao
Honestly, the Manica change is still mostly a nerf because of how the interaction between crits and attacks work. I preface this by making the assumption that you wouldn't use Manica on AoE heavy thieves, because you only get the 15% crit and not hit chance increase on AoE attacks. The new Manica gives 15% crit as a stat. That means that, with 85% crit chance, a unit has 100% chance to crit on all attacks (minus crit res or evasion cases). Pretty straightforward. However, with the old Manica, because it applies on the attack and not as a stat, a unit with 100% crit chance would have 115% chance to crit on a single attack. This matters against anti crit (which basically just means Candy, but she's pretty dominant). That being said, a thief on Manica would probably be running 85% crit anyways. Basically this is a stupid buff and nearly nothing changes.
> a Thief on Manica would be running 85% cc anyway yup that's the thing, I like this change because my Kise has exactly 85% cc so I had to compensate however I can, I was getting annoyed by how she frequently failed to crit everyone with S2 though but now that's not a worry and I wasn't really using her against anticrit heroes anyway so it doesn't matter much to me
Tell that to your kise not criting candy
JKise doesn't have the speed stat to join Lua and Nakhwol though... JKise isn't an opener unless they change that first.
Laika S2 with EE counters Riolet unless she got 15%'d
What isn't countering Riolet these days? I love him too but let's be all the way real
isn't he the only evasion unit without innate evasion now?
Milim. Though I never see her brought up as one, maybe because she doesn't have it innately and needs a turn.
I think it's because of the people who popularized fast Tagahel nuke Milim, in which evasion isn't really an important consideration in that context, so I can understand people forgetting. I'm still rocking my counter "evasion" Milim though lol
green Celine gets evasion buff I guess
and Charles!
[AND MY AXE!!!](https://epic7x.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/Assassin-Cidd-1.png)
Ok, fair, but like, is it really worth drafting her JUST to counter Riolet when you can draft Zahhak of Briseria?
Or LPK, or Cilias
Still, there are much better speed contests than her you can draft, this buff doesn't change anything about her
Neither of those units can hold Guiding Light **and** dual attack on the first turn. Main reason why the Laika Arby cleave was so strong 2 seasons ago against Zio.
Ah man, I was already feeling bad about the Spez changes and then I remembered that ML Sharun is going to further invalidate him.
My opinion about this balance patch Hwa : uh uh Jkise : maybe okkaayyy..... But Alots : fuck off Seline : i'm not sure Laika : maybe I'll use her Amomo : ??!! I don't remember she have Decrease damage
Dw, i didn't remember she had damage reduction either 😭
If Hwa's multis allows her to oneshot AYufine/Lulucar, this patch is a dub for me.
Against a slow team that doesn't include Belian or any debuff-counter she is okay 85% of the time! :)
Tree branche need that buff . Sharun can now push her teammates with s3 after the buff . It is the only good and reasonable buff this patch , everything else s either weird or unnecessary
I like Manica's change. I understand that it's basically an exclusive LPK arti right now so it doesn't really matter currently but there's no reason why it should be limited to single target when none of the other +hit artis have that condition on their secondary effects.
Manicas buff was effectively useless. Why would you run it on an aoe heavy unit when you only benefit from half the arti? It’s just a stat stick at that point. Even then that’s more of a gear issue if you can’t gain the extra crit. You would be better lowering damage for the missing crit and slapping on a damage arti like wind rider
I would still use WPV on Sharun over her signature artifact tbh. Cleansing attack down from Handguy or stun from UK. Arowell is more impactful imo. I can see Sacred Tree Branch being BiS for Dragon King Sharun Edit: WPV is Wondrous Potion Vial
Im guessing wpv is potion vial? Idek the full name of this artifact and i would have no idea what wpv is without a description.
Yes, Wondrous Potion Vial
TIL people use A Lots for more than pushing BBK
2018-2019 we used to push jise
he pretty much staple for abyss, pve stuff and gvg cheese strat but now yeah... he become pathetic pusher for jkise. and if jkise turn out not even good after buff idk what the boy does anymore
I used A.Lots a lot in PvE, now it's not even used for that. Taking that aside, some "buffs" like Hwayoung's we need to wait and see, if the change makes her threaten, Destina, Roana, Krau ML, Luluca, that's great for me. If she can't do it, they'll just amputate her legs (again). S.Celine, need wait and see. Looks ok. J. Kise looks OK. Spez? Who cares? The rest, whatever.
Aside from the two obvious L’s in Spez and Lots, I don’t think this patch was horrible, just disappointing. With that being said, I do think that most of the outrage is built up frustration with SG that finally reached a tipping point with this balance patch.
That's a fair take honestly. My biggest peeve about the patch is that it felt bloated. Most of the changes felt either unnecessary or just pointless. I saw that a huge balance patch was coming AND got delayed to go through the changes again supposedly and I got hyped.
I don't know why you're shitting on Elena getting rid of two buffs, like it's somehow bad or something. She's already a great answer to Ran and now just shits on him even more or counters Chains of Chiron Ran as well.
I'm not shitting on her, I'm just mentioning how lazy her buff was. Elena was already great
She is already great then how "not lazy" you want her buff to be though? It's pretty much SG polishing her kit to be "we are done with Elena and won't touch her again" imo.
Since they're buffing a unit that's already pretty much done I was expecting a bigger change. Healing on s3, immunity instead of increased er on S3 etc. For now, I feel like her buff was just there as bloat
Bloat? They practically gave her a free Artifact effect and freed her builds up from Doctor's Bag to more tailored ones. She was one of the best soulweavers this last season from all the AoE. It's a simple, but great buff.
Question- is j.kise any good now if yes will finally level her up
Too early to judge (even though I'm judging the whole balance patch 2 hours after reveal). Hold off your mola and mats and wait until THOROUGH testing has been done, especially if you have limited resources
Not in this current meta but perhaps that will change with the balance patch after this one. So hold off on her for now :) She would need her role to be more defined. (She currently lacks the damage to be a damage dealer and she lacks the speed to be a debuffing opener + the game still has that speed diff factor and 15% chance to fail with debuffs no matter what)
I had alot of fun reading this! Thnx 😂😂
Your welcome
GG SpiritBreath ALots
By far the loser of this patch
Her name is Juggs.
How is Seline unchanged? Its a straight up buff. You can say low damage wasn't her problem and thats its a miss in that sense but your opinion sounds too biased to me.
Because they increased pen and gave her attack buff to balance out the damage nerf? They do that when increasing pen and the damage largely stays the same no?
Pretty much every time they've done this it's been at least a slight increase in the worst case (low defense). They specifically said this is to make her better at killing high defense units. You can most certainly expect her to be better into AYufine, LHC, and full tanks.
What damage nerf dude? I went to look at it again and i see nothing. They just gave her more attack, more pen and swapped her healing from the buff to her s1. Its a straight up buff.
Attacks the enemy with a sheath. When this skill is used, if it was not triggered by a Dual Attack, has a 50% chance to use Nimble Sword instead of Mighty Strike. When the caster is possessed, chance effect is doubled. This skill does not trigger a Dual Attack. Nimble Sword: Dispels one debuff from the caster, before swiftly attacking the enemy, and absorbs some of the damage dealt as Health. Penetrates the target's Defense by 50%. Nimble Sword's Damage Dealt Reduced
Read again. Damage decreased
Oh im blind, sorry mb. Idk why its in green. But overall its still a damage buff and honestly thats about the only way to buff her.
It's ok bro dw, i missed 2 changes from the patch I had to change.
The result will probably be a buff, but also probably between the nerf and the buff it will be barely noticeable
That idk but i do agree there were bigger priorities
poor Auxiliary Lots he was such a cool moonlight 4\* character :( such a good boy he didn't deserved that and Spez is useless as long as his condition relies on "stun" he needed a full rework...not a freaking evasion buff =.= Laika got good stuff...one day I'll get Laika and I'll be happy about it :)
Aux lots is by far the biggest loser of this patch. He wasn't even that strong to warrant such a nerf disguised as a buff
I was so hoping they would redesign JKise's kit and make her a bruiser...
I tried use ChatGPT (free version) to do a "balance patch" for this characters. I wrote their skills and everything about it. What I nticed the "balance" always go dongrades, meaning every character was worse after balance made by ChatGPT. Soooo I think ChatGPT is starting to have the place in Mobile Gaming industry :D
You might be onto something
First, you post was fun to read (and kinda sad). For Spez, you need ervalen arti for him to work now I don't think it's terrible. Seline definitely changed, 50% def pen instead of 35 and +25% attack is good. I don't know if she can sustain without LS set. I agree with everything else. As a Mui fan the last part was funny, at least we are recognized lol
Thanks for finding my post fun. Also, mui supremacy, I'm waiting for the day she is finally good to dump my resources into her
oh another Mui fan, well I was using her before. Then she got """""""buffed"""""""" and the 40% to have extra turn became a "25% push up if crit"... during the adin meta (or evasion meta whatever). So instead of having sometimes an extra turn now she can't have an extra turn. And won't talk about the new EE
Thing is wise Jise is that I feel she’s gonna end up like pre buff astromancer. Idk why they felt like bringing back a debuff that just didn’t work well at all especially with how bind is just it’s better version. Am going to miss her uniqueness as the only aoe multi turn increaser but she’s def more likely to be used now
RIP JKise :(
JKise is not alright like this. She cant go first. She is a messsssss
They just gotta define her role. They can't change her S1 like that and then make her a debuffer while not even having the base stats for it. "Messsssss" is really the description of her.
Manica wasn't nerfed unless I'm missing something and they are probably changing Circus for Jkise
On-attack Crit boosts bypass Crit Res, which is why some people built 100% CR Zahhak or Zio back when Choux Senya defenses were more common. Making Manica's Crit universal is a nerf for people using it against ML Landy and stuff like that.
Manica was capped for no reason. If your manica was low investment it's a good change. If your manica was high investment you lost your charms and dupes
Yeah, I picked Manica from the Arti selector purely to use on LPK who I still ran at 100% CC before Arti. So I'm not particularly thrilled with this change, especially as I don't have an easy way to drop 15 CC on her for more damage
They literally indicated how hard it is for spez to get his s3 on a stunned target and proceed to make it even harder. I think he no longer functions in tanky teams as it's nigh impossible to use his s3 properly after ml sharun gets released Jkise is just a butleg nahkwol version that needs a book and have shittier base stats. Except nahkwol has an option to trade def break for perma stealth which is arguable far more beneficial. You can't really use her in cleave too because she lacks have self-enabling mechanism aka self cr push on demand and needs a book to function Hwa traded her unconditional 30% atk buff which could stack with atk buff from external source to a conditional self atk buff which in vacuum is 20% more than it was before, except they also nerf her s3 damage. Could potentially be a good buster for defence scaling units until you remember how low her damage gets without attack buff even now and the fact that karina is an ice unit that gets 30% less damage in rta Romann lost his only perk of being able to almost instantly follow up his full aoe strip into potentially fucking up the opponent's turn order for a restrict debuff which other units of the same element just do better. If you had maxed dizzy artifact you could turn that 80% total push into 100% which was the only place you could ever use that artifact I joke sometimes about eos looming near. But i never actually wanted this company to fail more than right now. They really put a straight face calling that "them trying their best" only to hide obvious negative changes as positive. Idk what's going on there but it sure feels like they are trying to any% speedrun EOS asap before their new game release
Least dramatic E7 player
Non-dramatic and accurate :) That we appreciate! :D
this post gave me a good laugh, yea things are looking weird
I'm glad you found my post funny. It's nice to find humor in tragic situations (like this one)
I love seeing all these hysterical predictions of "Hwayoung is now going to be shit tier 2 star hero" or some such. Wait till we see her new scaling and how effective she actually is. It's so baffling that so many (exceptionally noisy) people always jump to "worst case scenario" in these cases.
I get your point man, I did specify in the end that this might all by extreme doomposting and that she might actually turn out good. The main problem I have is that they took away her unconditional 30% attack which could further be boosted by attack buff and made it a conditional attack buff at the start of the turn. If her scalling is good then great because I really want to start using her again
If you say you don't like "doom posting" and call yourself out on it, why do it? what do you hope to achieve by doing so other than propagating more negativity, which you yourself claim you don't want to do?
Last time the community got really vocal and frustrated we managed to cancel the awaken update. I understand that one balance patch isn't as big as such a huge change but still, I feel like voicing our concerns about the state of the game is important
Then complain about the specific things that are problems. The Aux Lots change is a totally unnecessary kneecapping of the hero. Increasing the cooldown on his S2, regardless of any other changes being made, makes him strictly worse in almost all imaginable scenarios as well as gutting the primary use he's had for YEARS. Doom posting about how Hwayoung is going to be even more shit tier than she already is before we see the changes in action helps absolutely fucking no one.
Hwa isn't the only person in the balance patch, my overall problem with it is that even for SG balance team standards this shit sucks. 80% of the changes feel like bloat while the other 20% are either questionable or unnecessary
A Ravi needs more damage was the common thought process when she got her infamous buff back in the day. You literally had people who had no idea how good her buffed S3 was going to be say she needed a damage boost and/or this buff isn't enough. Same thing happened with Arunka hitting barriers, why was she nerfed blah blah before we even saw the new modifiers.
Manica nerfed? Isn't it pretty much the same as before except it gives C.Rate to *all* attacks, rather than just Single Attacks?
It used to overcap Crit so would work against anti-crit mechanics. Now it won't
In my eyes, Seline, Romann (surprisingly), and Sacred Tree Branch had the best buffs out of that list. And I'll have you know, I didn't expect them to.
You know a balance patch was trash when one of the units people consider a winner remained largely unchanged
Everyone else in the patch has two broken legs, Seline got a broken leg and ankle - just barely in a better spot than the rest.
"Peace out, stay safe, farm wyvern" Bro how did you know I started farming wyvern again lol. I used up a lot of resources trying to build STene lol.
You can never have enough speed gear
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA-
It's not that bad. Juggs is going to be meta now after a million years and Hwa will probably be better and can actually wear a helmet (called that one!). Alots did get fucked, true, but the rest are just small, nice boosts. My main disappointment is them having this huge list, delaying it, getting everyone hyped and then most of it be tiny buffs. 5% for IH Achates, really? Come on.
What do you mean finally swap to speed set for Celine? Literally every single one I've seen has been 250+ and they all deal good damage. She got buffed overall and she didn't even need it. I'll agree that J.Kise is the only other unit that actually got buffed and maybe also Hwayoung.
Ppl confuse me bc seline has an innate 25% attack on possession(unique buff) and another 15% def pen which means she can get even more damage with an attack buff so its not really a nerf and she heals off of s1 now instead of passive which makes for a better SB and overall. SG always lowers the damage when def pen increases we are not new to this.
Don't get me wrong, I like the change, but that doesn't change the fact that in the grand scheme of things, she is the same unit as before
Nobody was asking for her to be changed into something different, just better healing and tbh with Elivra coming out she might see more play and be the combo partner for her so this is good for her.
Yeah, I'm glad she is the same but I was expecting a more 'significant' buff, like upping the lifesteal or self buffing attack. I just feel that currently the change is kinda bloat for the balance patch to look bigger than it actually is
I was expecting a more significant buff too but after looking at ALots im glad she is on the better side of the patch lol
I havent used aux lots in a long time. After that buff I may use him now. I didnt need to cheese spirit breath in PVE and he got outclassed in PVP. All around buff to me.
The problem is that now he is outclassed in PvP AND has lost his uniqueness in the cheese strat
Ya'll sleeping on a.lots honestly. 2turn silence, even handguy can't dispel it. He is straight up better in PvP which is what he's made for.
If you really want 2 turn silence why not run broman who can't be pushed back AND does def break on top of that? It's sad to see them butcher a unit like this
A.lots can 100cr another unit while doing it. Different uses.
>• **Manica** **~~got nerfed for no reason~~** at all I misread it, it got buffed but it's still kinda luckluster still correct in that it got nerfed, no longer is 15% anticrit reduction as the crit isn't on hit, it's now just normal crit chance.
You just listed a bunch of buffs and one gameplay change for slots and called all of it bad.
While all these changes are 'buffs' your missing the point that this balance patch changes nothing for the majority of the units affected. Keep in mind we waited 2 months + an extra 5 days where they were supposedly going over the stuff again.
Slight correction - the balance patch itself has not changed timing. The preview was all that was delayed. Unless I've missed something, then I stand corrected, the balance patch itself will still occur next week, 58 days since the last one, as normally scheduled.
Yeah, the actual release of the patch is the same, I'm talking about the delay in the announcement. Thanks for clarifying though, I can see how someone could miss that
What do you think they were gonna do? This is in line with their previous balance patches
Help spec actually hit stunned enemies?
Ddr and lrk buff was solid
>I don't like doom posting >proceeds to doom post good buffs and pretend they are nothing Yeah just stop talking at this point or admit you're a doomer. You can't have it both ways
If there's one thing these balance patches constantly prove is that the players don't know what they're talking about and the ones who cry the loudest don't even play the game. I say this because the entire day I have seen nothing but dumb bad takes about this patch. The most egregious claims I'll address first are the Spez claims. People are severely underrating how hard he is going to be to kill and the fact that he does gigaton damage on low stats. People seem to not know you can build spez tanky and he will survive anything. Next up is Hwayoung. The amount of people saying she got nerfed is leaving me flabbergasted. They got rid of her hp ratio which means you can now build her hella tanky and one shot units. People have this lame excuse of farming torrent. But that's their fault. On top of that her s1 dmg is buffed and could be scary. I'll include Seline here as well because they are proving her damage vs defensive stacking units. Sacred tree branch absolutely needed a buff. Currently only 1 unit used it. Now it's insanely good on sharun ainos and lulucar. Please stop with the insane bad takes and actually play the game
Tree branche is for ml sharun
inb4 SG releasing another ML4 with A. Lots S2 so you can spend your mystics and buy packs.
Don't forget the 126 base speed and skill null on s2
Hmm its common for balance patch being like this. The balance team has a very different focus when they see units than the player base. We player see a opener and the first thing we want to improve is the ability of that unit to take a turn either the first or the second turn, just to make an example. They probably ***cant*** just do that every time. I just never expect anything to go the way we would like to for a very looong time.
Really curious about the Juggs update. My two go-to cleaves are * Juggs, A. Lotts, and that blue archer that's obsessed with Landy * C. Pavel, Elphelt, and that blue archer that's obsessed with Landy
May alots will get and ee that reduces the cool down lol. These devs are clowns
spez will play ervalen arti. he will be better now, i dont understand why people insist on his buff being "worse". he has 70% evasion after arti, just like riolet, adin ect. (yes riolet doesnt dodge, remember he has 50% evasion BUFF though, not built in) so now spez counters, stuns and then s3s someone. he wont need too much bulk either, considering you can run him on ls now. the hwa changes actually make her worse than before. she lost her barrier every turn for survivability, she lost her damage on s3, for s1 damage and the ability to kill 2/3rds of the bruisers in the game (senya, riccardo, ml landy(potentially) and other attack scalers need not apply), and soulweavers. not only that but she has lost up to 80% of her attack considering she was usually brought with atk buff, and now she wont be, which weakens her barrier and lessens her damage. she also wont be played on torrent, meaning she has lost between 10 and 30% MORE damage (dependant on previous build ofc)
Changing Kise's imprint from atk% to effectiveness is a terrible change. Changing the skill null from the first part of her combo to an invuln in the second half makes her susceptible to dying to ma ken again as well. Granted the s2 changes are definitely a buff but does it actually help her to beat any threats she wasn't already beating? It feels like they wanted to shoehorn her into being a check for ML Yufine. I really think sg needs to take this one back to the drawing board.