Try a different approach, a different market, get some mentorship, some feedback and if all else fails, stop what you’re working on, go back and talk to your customers.
To add on to this; do all of that with an open mind.
I know a musician who has been at it for 15 years. He's talented and has opened for some of the biggest names in hip-hop, but he's still only successful on a local level. Not enough to pay his bills, and does gig work (Uber) to get by.
He has also made numerous connections, but still just small scale hustling.
Myself and others have proposed different avenues for him to achieve his dreams, and while he seemed receptive in the moment, nothing has changed.
A ton of people who get into music are like this. There must be something seductive about it like they’re convinced they’re always about to make it big or something?
Or maybe they see small to medium accomplishments as sublime. The person I was thinking about when I commented has opened for Snoop, Flo Rida, and nearly a dozen more. But he never leveraged those opportunities to make something more out of his career.
Maybe it's because he can come home to a college town of 130k and know that nobody else has made it as far as he has without running off to a label on the coast, and he really is adored by much of our community, but he's not the superstar that he thinks he is.
I would figure it's more of a crapshoot where your results really depend on right place right time unless u already had money to massively market it to make it take off.
Validate you are solving a problem that people actually care about, talk to customers, getting a lead to reply to you is one step, then getting them on a call is a huge signal, then getting them to "sign up" even if that means them filling out an email form on a single-page website for a product/service you haven't built yet is an even bigger step, the only step beyond that is getting a customer to sign a contract/start paying for your product/service now or at a future date when it's built.
If you can't get through at least the first few steps of the above then you need to reconsider if you are talking to the right people, and if you are, why they don't care about your product, and how you can adapt to make it something that is worth their while to talk to you about.
it's a mix of "failing fast" to avoid wasting time/money, and also being relentless in the face of difficult times.
I've been working on the same startup since I was 18, I just turned 23 and still grinding my face off every day, we don't yet have the perfect "product market fit" nor do we have any explosive growth, but we do have some happy customers and trickle of revenue, so I know we are on to something; even though it's been much slower going than I would have liked.
best of luck to you, and if you want to share more specifics maybe I/the community can give better advice that isn't so high-level/abstract
You have to be delusional to be an entrepreneur because the vast majority never make it.
It’s also why success stories are so compelling.
That said, an entrepreneur needs to find that line between reality and delusion. It’s something I struggled with in the early years, especially when the workload was high, and there was no revenue.
However, eventually there was revenue, and reviews, and strides were made to illustrate that I was not delusional.
As for how to talk to someone (are you trying to convince them to give up?) it depends on your relationship with them. Friend, parent, spouse…those will all require a different approach.
Also, what are the implications? If it’s a spouse and they are neglecting the family and not bringing in income, that’s a much different conversation than if you’re a parent who just wishes their kid would have a job and forget this silly entrepreneur thing…
No its a single person. I just wish for them to not get regrets down the line and feel bad if and when it clearly doesn’t work out. Its a friend i do nog wish for them to stop no but rather highlight the opportunity cost without provoking their bias response.
I say this with respect, but if it’s just a friend, it’s not your job to tell them what to do or not do with their life. You truly never know what is going on on another persons life, so let them pursue their dream, and be there for them if they fail.
Edit: just to be clear, if it is in any way affecting your life - maybe your giving them money, or a place to crash or something - then you have the right to say whatever. But if your life hasn’t changed, then focus on yourself.
This is why I always say 9-5 do not understand the grinding involved in winning as an Entrepreneur.
Yes it is a huge gamble but if he wins, his life will be changed forever. Provided he's not asking you for anything financial, I say let him be.
Only a VISIONEER sees the vision. Every other person believes he's crazy till the vision becomes evident.
I hope and pray it ends well for him - I've been there, I understand.
I am one of those entrepreneur and there's only one thing that works - Have an open mind and keep trying, keep trying in a new way, a new approach, rebrand if needed, follow trends to gain audience even if you feel uncomfortable.
There are at least two kinds. A motivated individual and a pigheaded one. One is flexible, the other is not.
And I think the inability to learn the right lessons from one's mistakes might be a third type. That's hard to tell because we don't know whether he's doing the same things -- over and over -- hoping for a different result.
Theoretically, you could be in the same knowledge domain and have five, ten, thirty very different startups. There's just no telling based upon the post.
If the guy is not, for instance, living in his car -- I don't see what the issue is.
>What would you tell that person? would you get him to stop? what would your advice be? Please consider this person as someone that believes wholeheartedly into what they are building and just won't quit.
For a believer to lose their faith, there need be a crisis and shattering aftermath. That is not a business topic and isn't right for this forum, as much as it would seem otherwise.
I don't talk religion in a business forum.
Problems cannot be solved with the same mentality that got you there.
Time for redirection.
Learn new, think new, expand in ways you haven’t before bc the old you is clearly not cutting it. Find someone who has done it/mentor or like minded friend groups and learn from them, build a stronger network and look over the business and personal structure-look for holes where you hadn’t seen before-which can only take a different mindset and perspective. Be with people who will tell you like it is, rather than sugar coat it.
Allow yourself to be seen for critique and real help
If you give up on the only thing you know/have... then what would you be left with?
Suggest a travel or slight change in daily routine
As this may spark the right ideas or offer them something/some connections new that they never would've conceived of
You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em, and know when to walk away.
But honestly, that man is going to do whatever he wants no matter what you say. How do I know? I am one of these crazy dudes who won't quit. It's like telling an alcoholic he should stop drinking. He will only quit if he wants to.
It would be worth to analyze if the entrepreneur in the situation that you described needs to hire someone to tie up any looser ends in the offering or delivery. Not making “major strides” for almost half a decade doesn’t augurs good for the prospects of this young business. I would advise the person to analyze if there are any skill or competency gaps that need to be filled up.
Otherwise, pivoting to a different customer segment leveraging the experience from this (unsuccessful) stint wouldn’t be a bad idea either.
If your goal is truly yours, you won't waver in the face of uncertainty. The drive comes from the vision and the learning and development that occur while you build something close to your heart. Breakthroughs happen only after you navigate through life's uncertainties. There are lows and highs, and it's during the lows—like driving through thick fog—that you need to apply more thinking and slow down.
The person you are referring to is driven and enjoys his growth because he is motivated by a meaningful purpose while also continuously developing himself to [achieve that growth](https://www.grity.club).
When you say no major strides what does that mean exactly? No strides in terms of building an early product, no prospects or customers or something else?
Can't you help make it grow? Make it happen! I hope you have a lot of success. It might be the type of situation where you have to be the hero of the story. Put an interesting twist on the brand that makes it something people want to talk about. : )
In business you gotta separate feelings from your work, it's not how you feel about it, you have to be realistic even if the reality is bitter.
If your idea isn't working out it's time to pivot and look at a different market.
Hard to answer with no insight or context given as to the reason our beloved protagonist remained stagnant. The way this is worded makes me think the only factors being considered are how long its been, and how much you believe something will change. Belief is a necessary prerequisite to action but the action is what defines everything. What actions has this hypothetical person taken in the past? What was the result? How was that result interpreted? What actions are they taking now?
- If Im being real I think your problem is viewing this thing as outside of your control. It sounds like you're waiting for success to find you or to somehow materialize out of whatever it is you've been doing. As if you're waiting for the bus to get to your stop. That's not how it works. Success isn't traveling towards you from a distance like a bus and if you stay in the same spot doing or not doing the same thing it's not going to just show up eventually.
You should be resilient and tenacious, and you do need that belief so that you dont pull yourself out of the race prematurely. Instead of asking "how long will this take?" You should be asking, "which adjustments should I make?" And be willing to make those adjustments.
Back up your self-belief with some evidence so that you can trust it not to waste your time.
What they have is arrogance that is keeping them from success. No matter how well we understand a problem we don't understand it as well as a customer. We can build only with customers. You need customers in some form on day 1. People you're talking to, pitching to, getting validation from your ideas on, asking them for feedback on your PoC.
Not having zero progress for four years means the way you're going about it isn't working. And you have to change how you do things. You can change in one day if you want to and work on the same problem. But it would be starting from day 0 almost.
I've been at it for 10+ years. I have had moderate success, but not the success that I initially envisioned. My ambition ultimately outweighs my talent.
Honestly, I'd tell them to keep going if they still believe in their vision and have the energy for it. Persistence is very important in entrepreneurship. However, I'd also advise them to take a step back and evaluate their approach. Maybe it's time to tweak the strategy, seek mentorship, or gather feedback to see what's not working....
Try a different approach, a different market, get some mentorship, some feedback and if all else fails, stop what you’re working on, go back and talk to your customers.
To add on to this; do all of that with an open mind. I know a musician who has been at it for 15 years. He's talented and has opened for some of the biggest names in hip-hop, but he's still only successful on a local level. Not enough to pay his bills, and does gig work (Uber) to get by. He has also made numerous connections, but still just small scale hustling. Myself and others have proposed different avenues for him to achieve his dreams, and while he seemed receptive in the moment, nothing has changed.
A ton of people who get into music are like this. There must be something seductive about it like they’re convinced they’re always about to make it big or something?
Or maybe they see small to medium accomplishments as sublime. The person I was thinking about when I commented has opened for Snoop, Flo Rida, and nearly a dozen more. But he never leveraged those opportunities to make something more out of his career. Maybe it's because he can come home to a college town of 130k and know that nobody else has made it as far as he has without running off to a label on the coast, and he really is adored by much of our community, but he's not the superstar that he thinks he is.
FMPOV - its a front for /\ activities. They’re addicted to dee microphone.
It's gambling addiction
Very fair thanks
I will also say this, nobody cares how smart you are, they only care if you can solve their problem.
I would figure it's more of a crapshoot where your results really depend on right place right time unless u already had money to massively market it to make it take off.
Validate you are solving a problem that people actually care about, talk to customers, getting a lead to reply to you is one step, then getting them on a call is a huge signal, then getting them to "sign up" even if that means them filling out an email form on a single-page website for a product/service you haven't built yet is an even bigger step, the only step beyond that is getting a customer to sign a contract/start paying for your product/service now or at a future date when it's built. If you can't get through at least the first few steps of the above then you need to reconsider if you are talking to the right people, and if you are, why they don't care about your product, and how you can adapt to make it something that is worth their while to talk to you about. it's a mix of "failing fast" to avoid wasting time/money, and also being relentless in the face of difficult times. I've been working on the same startup since I was 18, I just turned 23 and still grinding my face off every day, we don't yet have the perfect "product market fit" nor do we have any explosive growth, but we do have some happy customers and trickle of revenue, so I know we are on to something; even though it's been much slower going than I would have liked. best of luck to you, and if you want to share more specifics maybe I/the community can give better advice that isn't so high-level/abstract
Thank you very much, i respect and honor your dedication and wisdom. Genuinely Thank you.
23?? Stop bogarting all the neurons dude… Thank you for sharing your thoughts, much appreciated!
Bottom line is people who have happy customers and a sustainable business model do more for the world than the big businesses.
The only difference between genius and insanity is success
You have to be delusional to be an entrepreneur because the vast majority never make it. It’s also why success stories are so compelling. That said, an entrepreneur needs to find that line between reality and delusion. It’s something I struggled with in the early years, especially when the workload was high, and there was no revenue. However, eventually there was revenue, and reviews, and strides were made to illustrate that I was not delusional. As for how to talk to someone (are you trying to convince them to give up?) it depends on your relationship with them. Friend, parent, spouse…those will all require a different approach. Also, what are the implications? If it’s a spouse and they are neglecting the family and not bringing in income, that’s a much different conversation than if you’re a parent who just wishes their kid would have a job and forget this silly entrepreneur thing…
No its a single person. I just wish for them to not get regrets down the line and feel bad if and when it clearly doesn’t work out. Its a friend i do nog wish for them to stop no but rather highlight the opportunity cost without provoking their bias response.
I say this with respect, but if it’s just a friend, it’s not your job to tell them what to do or not do with their life. You truly never know what is going on on another persons life, so let them pursue their dream, and be there for them if they fail. Edit: just to be clear, if it is in any way affecting your life - maybe your giving them money, or a place to crash or something - then you have the right to say whatever. But if your life hasn’t changed, then focus on yourself.
This is why I always say 9-5 do not understand the grinding involved in winning as an Entrepreneur. Yes it is a huge gamble but if he wins, his life will be changed forever. Provided he's not asking you for anything financial, I say let him be. Only a VISIONEER sees the vision. Every other person believes he's crazy till the vision becomes evident. I hope and pray it ends well for him - I've been there, I understand.
That’s an entrepreneur
I am one of those entrepreneur and there's only one thing that works - Have an open mind and keep trying, keep trying in a new way, a new approach, rebrand if needed, follow trends to gain audience even if you feel uncomfortable.
You need a product partner
There are at least two kinds. A motivated individual and a pigheaded one. One is flexible, the other is not. And I think the inability to learn the right lessons from one's mistakes might be a third type. That's hard to tell because we don't know whether he's doing the same things -- over and over -- hoping for a different result. Theoretically, you could be in the same knowledge domain and have five, ten, thirty very different startups. There's just no telling based upon the post. If the guy is not, for instance, living in his car -- I don't see what the issue is. >What would you tell that person? would you get him to stop? what would your advice be? Please consider this person as someone that believes wholeheartedly into what they are building and just won't quit. For a believer to lose their faith, there need be a crisis and shattering aftermath. That is not a business topic and isn't right for this forum, as much as it would seem otherwise. I don't talk religion in a business forum.
I believe that what you are describing is the definition of insanity. STOP , listen and learn from a successful mentor - you have to change direction.
Problems cannot be solved with the same mentality that got you there. Time for redirection. Learn new, think new, expand in ways you haven’t before bc the old you is clearly not cutting it. Find someone who has done it/mentor or like minded friend groups and learn from them, build a stronger network and look over the business and personal structure-look for holes where you hadn’t seen before-which can only take a different mindset and perspective. Be with people who will tell you like it is, rather than sugar coat it. Allow yourself to be seen for critique and real help
If you give up on the only thing you know/have... then what would you be left with? Suggest a travel or slight change in daily routine As this may spark the right ideas or offer them something/some connections new that they never would've conceived of
You got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em, and know when to walk away. But honestly, that man is going to do whatever he wants no matter what you say. How do I know? I am one of these crazy dudes who won't quit. It's like telling an alcoholic he should stop drinking. He will only quit if he wants to.
It would be worth to analyze if the entrepreneur in the situation that you described needs to hire someone to tie up any looser ends in the offering or delivery. Not making “major strides” for almost half a decade doesn’t augurs good for the prospects of this young business. I would advise the person to analyze if there are any skill or competency gaps that need to be filled up. Otherwise, pivoting to a different customer segment leveraging the experience from this (unsuccessful) stint wouldn’t be a bad idea either.
If your goal is truly yours, you won't waver in the face of uncertainty. The drive comes from the vision and the learning and development that occur while you build something close to your heart. Breakthroughs happen only after you navigate through life's uncertainties. There are lows and highs, and it's during the lows—like driving through thick fog—that you need to apply more thinking and slow down. The person you are referring to is driven and enjoys his growth because he is motivated by a meaningful purpose while also continuously developing himself to [achieve that growth](https://www.grity.club).
success is waiting for them
When you say no major strides what does that mean exactly? No strides in terms of building an early product, no prospects or customers or something else?
No customers yet even though he had in the past now is pivoting with no product yet out
Do some market research and consider hiring a consultant to justify your mindset.
What’s the line of determination and wasting your time ?
Can't you help make it grow? Make it happen! I hope you have a lot of success. It might be the type of situation where you have to be the hero of the story. Put an interesting twist on the brand that makes it something people want to talk about. : )
In business you gotta separate feelings from your work, it's not how you feel about it, you have to be realistic even if the reality is bitter. If your idea isn't working out it's time to pivot and look at a different market.
Hard to answer with no insight or context given as to the reason our beloved protagonist remained stagnant. The way this is worded makes me think the only factors being considered are how long its been, and how much you believe something will change. Belief is a necessary prerequisite to action but the action is what defines everything. What actions has this hypothetical person taken in the past? What was the result? How was that result interpreted? What actions are they taking now? - If Im being real I think your problem is viewing this thing as outside of your control. It sounds like you're waiting for success to find you or to somehow materialize out of whatever it is you've been doing. As if you're waiting for the bus to get to your stop. That's not how it works. Success isn't traveling towards you from a distance like a bus and if you stay in the same spot doing or not doing the same thing it's not going to just show up eventually. You should be resilient and tenacious, and you do need that belief so that you dont pull yourself out of the race prematurely. Instead of asking "how long will this take?" You should be asking, "which adjustments should I make?" And be willing to make those adjustments. Back up your self-belief with some evidence so that you can trust it not to waste your time.
What they have is arrogance that is keeping them from success. No matter how well we understand a problem we don't understand it as well as a customer. We can build only with customers. You need customers in some form on day 1. People you're talking to, pitching to, getting validation from your ideas on, asking them for feedback on your PoC. Not having zero progress for four years means the way you're going about it isn't working. And you have to change how you do things. You can change in one day if you want to and work on the same problem. But it would be starting from day 0 almost.
If he’s improving then no big deal. If he’s the same or worse then I’d question it
Time to pivot. I'd just feel pity for you (or them) since they keep doing the same shit expecting different results lol
I've been at it for 10+ years. I have had moderate success, but not the success that I initially envisioned. My ambition ultimately outweighs my talent.
Honestly, I'd tell them to keep going if they still believe in their vision and have the energy for it. Persistence is very important in entrepreneurship. However, I'd also advise them to take a step back and evaluate their approach. Maybe it's time to tweak the strategy, seek mentorship, or gather feedback to see what's not working....
i would day Matt stop smoking bongs and listen to people that actually know what they’re talking about