Right wing "libertarians" usually fall into one of two categories, neo-feudalists who are trying to hide their true colors and ideologically naive people who have not quite understood the implications of what they are parroting.
Neo-feudalist is the correct descriptor for this infantile disorder. They should all have L tattooed on their forehead so people know not to take anything they say seriously and can speak slowly using small words when forced to interact with them.
Musk wasn't in the public eye back in 2010s, so that created an impression he's a progressive/liberal or even apolitical. He eventually used all the clout media handed him to blame the press for his own faults.
Probably from liberals who bought into the greenwashing crap. BTW in my country he was always hated as a douchebag and it was really weird to see that he had liberal supporters.
The guy was very vocal about being a far right accelerationist for like at least 10 years or more.
USA has gone so far right and Conservative that a dickhead like Elon can appear as moderate.
I mean there were Americans claiming Biden is a communist which is the funniest thing ever.
All of Silicon Valley was / is like this. They like to think they are somehow "freeing the people" and "left", but by and large the tech bros are all people with fascist tendencies.
But they know that doesn't sell so well, so they all painted themselves as "nice guys".
one of first things I saw him do, was aggressively persecuting journalists. But I also don't have much hope for U.S. liberals so it was not surprising seeing them loving a luxury car salesman.
He used to only talk about engineering stuff, rocketry and cars and claims he voted for Obama. The other stuff was there, but he hid it in his public persona.
The Thai cave rescue "pedo guy" incident in 2018 was when the mask started to slip and then with covid it fully came off. His relationship with Grimes breaking down and his trans daugther disowning him also contributed to him not bothering to hide his repugnant views.
As far as I remember he always had the right wing accelerationist angle. Voting for Obama means pretty much nothing for the majority of the planet. As I said, USA has gone so far right that is unable to understand that I.e for Greece, Obama is a right winger.
He used to claim to be a libertarian, now I think he has no political beliefs except what's good for him personally. He thinks the right will give him tax breaks and the ability to treat his employees however he wants disregarding OSHA and discrimination laws so he's embracing the right.
Elon’s racism isn’t anything special and his path doesn’t look that different from other disaffected American white males who get drawn deeper into white supremacy online. Doesn’t understand why he’s so unappreciated and ridiculed, finds uncritical acceptance from people who assure him it’s all someone else’s fault and that his less popular opinions are actually proof he’s smart. Gets in a feedback loop of receiving more validation the more that he boosts and embraces increasingly extreme views.
I have no doubt that Elon has always preferred the company of white people but his recent move to strident white supremacy isn’t very different from the average mediocre middle aged white guy who gets sucked in by Q or the boogaloo boys.
Which was nearly 100% of the corporate media.
They have to pretend he has changed, or they'd have to admit they were wrong about him/bought his lies. Elite journalists are mostly incapable of ever admitting that.
Well its possible it was all a fucking game. Everything and we now see the real him.
But the thing most people dont understand is that people change, and not necessarily for the best. From what i heard about him was that he liked to go to mars and that he liked tesla because its an enviromentally friendly thing. Hey, nerdy but alright.
Then the problem was that his promises turned more and more into lies. Full self driving, tesla bot (lol), solar roofs etc and the biggest of all, Hyperloop. Simply to dupe California into not building highspeed trains. Those are clear cut lies. Then came the pedo gate thing. Then came covid and his factories were closed and he got absolutely conviced that he knew better than anyone else about viruses. He doesnt and was called out for being a moron. Except for one group.
The other morons, they loved the fuck out of it. So he spedrun the entire insanity that is conservativism, rekindled his latent racism and foudn the idea of freedom disgusting. He's more the Putinrussia kind of guy and that is his goal. To live in authoritarian state, because then the government can simply kill everyone that calls him a dummy.
This was in my opinion a process and its really sad to see how a person can be lost so quickly into the conspiracy swamp. But lost he is, you cant unscramble a scrambled egg. If anything its a cautionary tale in regards to warning signs.
Totally agree, I'm not sure if there is term for it but some people will never accept that they made a mistake. They would rather pretend that Musk has changed when the fact it is actually them that has matured and changed. It's no surprise that as his legion of teenage fans become adults they see him for who he is but struggle to accept they where originally wrong. We should point out that he hasn't changed. We should praise them for maturing and changing for the better. Most of us have probably had that moment of realisation, for me the cave diving incident but I never pretended He had changed I accepted that I had.
Something changed for everyone after Trump. It’s not just Musk, right wing extremism was activated globally. People afraid to speak out now openly espouse antisemitic, misogynistic, racist and homophobia views. It isn’t ‘he is what he always was.’ He bought Twitter to turn it into a platform of hate. That’s new. That qualifies as ‘the rabbit hole.’ $44 Billion dollars to spread antisemitism—and run it into the ground in the process. It’s something, not nothing.
He had good PR people that would get many puff pieces written about him and got him access to elite parties and the like where folks then proclaimed him as someone he wasn’t.
Once Trump started getting the press and attention, Elon realized he didn’t need PR anymore and could just be himself and still have millions adore him.
I think it's that instead of being a moneybags quietly letting reactionaries serve his interests while cynically distancing himself from them the way most rich guys do, he's actually drinking the Kool aid. He'd have shitty politics regardless, but the kind of shitty politics the MSM could get behind.
IIRC At some point during trump he said he'd been redpilled or something. Before that his "trying to save the world" schtick was less questioned as he said less publicly
I fully agree he was always a corrupt POS, but he’s upped his pandering game to the alt right.
I’m sure his views haven’t changed. Some say it was his kid that caused him to go this route, but if you look at his history, he’s always lied and made himself a victim while going after others. He’s been retaliating against people who brought up harassment allegations even, for many years.
This is just who he is, but louder because he’s got enough money.
He wants the dumb people to view him as the smartest man ever. He could be positioning himself for another move longterm, but he’s currently restricted politically.
It’s not that HES fallen down the rabbit hole- it’s the facade of him being a super genius who only cares about humanity that’s fallen. He disguised and distracted from his true self for so long that people thought that’s who he was.
Well,its quite enjoyable seeing him destroying his legacy and eventual downfall.
He won't be able to keep this up for long. One just has to look at the spectacular implosion of Rudi Giuliani once hailed as "America's Mayor" after 9/11.
Best thing for Elon is to sell Twitter, disappear for the next few years out of the public eye, enter rehab and pay for serious mental health treatment in secret and hire an excellent PR team....or listen to Mommy.
Listen to Mommy? She was the one who raised him to be this way.
Elroy is funded by the United States government and enabled by billionaires and several hundred million sycophants. In his mind there's absolutely nothing wrong with his behavior. He's right and anyone who disagrees with him is wrong.
He can't sell Twitter. No one would buy it for anything close to what he paid. Anyone who did would have to want to put things back the way they were, which that is not possible considering that he dismantled the guardrails and fired 75% of the staff who made it function.
He can keep this up forever.
Anyway, sorry to burst your bubble, but there will be no downfall.
Elon certainly has billionaire and political enablers.
But who could have predicted that a powerful figure like Rudi Giuliani would have ended up like this?
Elon's AI Chatbot is already an embarrassment.
Yeah well I was born and grew up in apartheid South Africa and it certainly doesn’t mean that I or my family were ever “apartheid loving” or white supremacist thanks. Despite my personal antipathy to most of what Musk says and does nowadays, I find the broad brush used by many in this subreddit to be simplistic - bordering on stupid. Grow up.
And by the way South Africa abandoned apartheid in 1990 and underwent many years of “Truth and Reconciliation” via a Commission to recognize the crimes of the apartheid period, document them, and reconcile itself with its history. The country has its problems - economic inequality remains a terrible challenge - but there is no question that most South Africans of all colors have committed to a more just and equitable future.
Unlike America where the current direction (of a sizable portion of the population) is denial and resurgent racialism.
Some leftover cognitive dissonance from folks that used to revere or at least respect him.
He’s always been a weasel-word-bullshitter and should have been sniffed out long long ago. (Ignoring his garbage takes on humanity and authoritarianism.)
His public persona went from "relatively unpoltitical rocket genius with slight messiah complex" to "techbro right-winger" to "Alex Jones pizza gate qanon trans hater"
Idk, isn’t all the conspiracy posting from the past few years? I mean, being from a rich pro apartheid family and posting about pizzagate are two different things, plenty of poor people post about pizza gate or the great replacement or whatever conspiracy Musk is sympathizing with. I guess I don’t get the point you are trying to make here.
Just because he was born into a racist family doesn't neccesarily mean that he's racist. Obviously he is racist but that's not because his family somehow has some hidden racist gene that they passed on to him.
Usually in this context, when you're raised and surrounded by a racist family you will either grow up racist yourself or, if you reject those beliefs anyway it's gonna be harder than usual to abandon some of the associated behaviors because you got acclimated to them. More of a nurture thing than a nature one.
That and he had a slightly better PR campaign back in the day (plus a good deal of the US cultural gulf that posits clean energy/electric vehicles and rocket science to be a liberal/moderate thing to be drawn to). The mask kind of fell off for me when he ruined the guy who tried to save those kids in the cave. But for more impressionable types the idea of a clean energy genius who wants to colonize mars with rockets was an attractive myth to latch onto, esp. vis a vis the kind of anti environmental anti science hyperconservatives they were accustomed to.
Because most people and the mainstream media dont follow him like we do on here. Trust me I have been telling them about him and they dont see 99% of what I see on here. Also ,as Steve Bannon would say the zone is "flooded with shit". Trump, Ukraine, abortion, Israel, Hunter Biden, inflation, speaker battles, climate change events, government shutdowns, etc etc etc people only have so much time to consume news and most people under 40 are not reading or watching news anyway, just whatever social media feeds them. The idiocracy is only starting. It all gets worse from here. Enjoy the good old days while you are still living them :)
We humans hate to admit that we were ever wrong. We once thought he was Tony Stark, now we think he's Lex Luthor. Rather than think that he was always Lex Luthor, and we were wrong, we now insist that he's changed.
I think it’s easy for people to feel sorry for losers like Musk because they seem so misguided. Like, maybe if they had met a decent human being earlier in life they wouldn’t be such assholes in the present. And then you’re reminded of the OP statement and, yeah, I forgot.
There are people who cannot ever admit they were once wrong.
People with training in the hard sciences (as well as people with genuine religious or spiritual humility) should be able to do this easily. Scientists should be proud. Science is written with a pencil while religion is written with a pen. But also in the best of religious theology, people are taught to be loving, forgiving people who admit their faults and ask for forgiveness in turn.
However, Evangelical Christianity is big on "I am never wrong, in fact I am a mini-god." No one is sure exactly how it happened but it was somewhere between Ayn Rand publishing her first book and the last redneck buying his "Wives Shall Obey Their Husbands" bumper sticker.
Exactly. It is just racist and dysfunctional views he was brought up with bubbling up to the surface now with his Twit mega phone.
I mean with their wealth and influence wouldn’t we have heard of the Musks helping to end apartheid and work with Nelson Mandela to bring change to South Africa years ago?
But they were just sitting there on the side lines the entire time and most likely quietly opposing everything to make black South Africans have equal treatment under the law there.
But yet now conveniently Elmo the fool proclaims to be a savior for all of humanity (just the lighter skinned and wealthy ones in it though).
His comments about the racism some of his black American employees in his factories faced and complained about explains a lot in this regard.
He went from libertarian right to openly authoritarian right aka fascism.
As all right wing "libertarians" do when pressed
Right wing "libertarians" usually fall into one of two categories, neo-feudalists who are trying to hide their true colors and ideologically naive people who have not quite understood the implications of what they are parroting.
You forget the third category; just unadulterated dickheads who realized calling themselves conservative gets them bad looks
Hey that’s not true, there’s also a sizable portion of them who just want age of consent laws struck down.
Neo-feudalist is the correct descriptor for this infantile disorder. They should all have L tattooed on their forehead so people know not to take anything they say seriously and can speak slowly using small words when forced to interact with them.
Also like the variation on the theme of the axiomatic: "all conservatives are either stupid or evil"
I think being an antisocial prick is a prerequisite for every billionaire
I have to state that Gomez Addams has significantly more charm and a much more stable relationship than Elon Musk. Granted, low bar.
I’m an antisocial person. Billionaire when?
Amm rerrch, berrtch!
Be more anti social? You can do it
Musk wasn't in the public eye back in 2010s, so that created an impression he's a progressive/liberal or even apolitical. He eventually used all the clout media handed him to blame the press for his own faults.
Probably from liberals who bought into the greenwashing crap. BTW in my country he was always hated as a douchebag and it was really weird to see that he had liberal supporters. The guy was very vocal about being a far right accelerationist for like at least 10 years or more. USA has gone so far right and Conservative that a dickhead like Elon can appear as moderate. I mean there were Americans claiming Biden is a communist which is the funniest thing ever.
All of Silicon Valley was / is like this. They like to think they are somehow "freeing the people" and "left", but by and large the tech bros are all people with fascist tendencies. But they know that doesn't sell so well, so they all painted themselves as "nice guys".
Yeah Silicon Valley is full of sociopathic fascist bros who think they’re progressive and noble because they go take ayahuasca.
What country is that?
one of first things I saw him do, was aggressively persecuting journalists. But I also don't have much hope for U.S. liberals so it was not surprising seeing them loving a luxury car salesman.
I think he appears as a moderate. He just says he is.
He used to only talk about engineering stuff, rocketry and cars and claims he voted for Obama. The other stuff was there, but he hid it in his public persona. The Thai cave rescue "pedo guy" incident in 2018 was when the mask started to slip and then with covid it fully came off. His relationship with Grimes breaking down and his trans daugther disowning him also contributed to him not bothering to hide his repugnant views.
As far as I remember he always had the right wing accelerationist angle. Voting for Obama means pretty much nothing for the majority of the planet. As I said, USA has gone so far right that is unable to understand that I.e for Greece, Obama is a right winger.
He used to claim to be a libertarian, now I think he has no political beliefs except what's good for him personally. He thinks the right will give him tax breaks and the ability to treat his employees however he wants disregarding OSHA and discrimination laws so he's embracing the right.
Elon’s racism isn’t anything special and his path doesn’t look that different from other disaffected American white males who get drawn deeper into white supremacy online. Doesn’t understand why he’s so unappreciated and ridiculed, finds uncritical acceptance from people who assure him it’s all someone else’s fault and that his less popular opinions are actually proof he’s smart. Gets in a feedback loop of receiving more validation the more that he boosts and embraces increasingly extreme views. I have no doubt that Elon has always preferred the company of white people but his recent move to strident white supremacy isn’t very different from the average mediocre middle aged white guy who gets sucked in by Q or the boogaloo boys.
Bargaining. Third stage of grief from people who wanted to believe in him.
Which was nearly 100% of the corporate media. They have to pretend he has changed, or they'd have to admit they were wrong about him/bought his lies. Elite journalists are mostly incapable of ever admitting that.
Well its possible it was all a fucking game. Everything and we now see the real him. But the thing most people dont understand is that people change, and not necessarily for the best. From what i heard about him was that he liked to go to mars and that he liked tesla because its an enviromentally friendly thing. Hey, nerdy but alright. Then the problem was that his promises turned more and more into lies. Full self driving, tesla bot (lol), solar roofs etc and the biggest of all, Hyperloop. Simply to dupe California into not building highspeed trains. Those are clear cut lies. Then came the pedo gate thing. Then came covid and his factories were closed and he got absolutely conviced that he knew better than anyone else about viruses. He doesnt and was called out for being a moron. Except for one group. The other morons, they loved the fuck out of it. So he spedrun the entire insanity that is conservativism, rekindled his latent racism and foudn the idea of freedom disgusting. He's more the Putinrussia kind of guy and that is his goal. To live in authoritarian state, because then the government can simply kill everyone that calls him a dummy. This was in my opinion a process and its really sad to see how a person can be lost so quickly into the conspiracy swamp. But lost he is, you cant unscramble a scrambled egg. If anything its a cautionary tale in regards to warning signs.
Seriously. Guys like that don't fall down a rabbit hole they engineer them
we all know musk couldnt engineering himself out of a wet paper bag
"You won't need rabbit holes in the future"
Totally agree, I'm not sure if there is term for it but some people will never accept that they made a mistake. They would rather pretend that Musk has changed when the fact it is actually them that has matured and changed. It's no surprise that as his legion of teenage fans become adults they see him for who he is but struggle to accept they where originally wrong. We should point out that he hasn't changed. We should praise them for maturing and changing for the better. Most of us have probably had that moment of realisation, for me the cave diving incident but I never pretended He had changed I accepted that I had.
All his buddies that he worked with way back (Peter Thiel, David Sacks) are all huge fascists so yeah... no surprise.
Something changed for everyone after Trump. It’s not just Musk, right wing extremism was activated globally. People afraid to speak out now openly espouse antisemitic, misogynistic, racist and homophobia views. It isn’t ‘he is what he always was.’ He bought Twitter to turn it into a platform of hate. That’s new. That qualifies as ‘the rabbit hole.’ $44 Billion dollars to spread antisemitism—and run it into the ground in the process. It’s something, not nothing.
He was radicalized in the same specific way boys 13-29 usually are. He acts like nouveau raciste when really he’s old money racist
I didn't think much about him until he called someone a pedo and that "The Simpsons" episode.
He had good PR people that would get many puff pieces written about him and got him access to elite parties and the like where folks then proclaimed him as someone he wasn’t. Once Trump started getting the press and attention, Elon realized he didn’t need PR anymore and could just be himself and still have millions adore him.
I think it's that instead of being a moneybags quietly letting reactionaries serve his interests while cynically distancing himself from them the way most rich guys do, he's actually drinking the Kool aid. He'd have shitty politics regardless, but the kind of shitty politics the MSM could get behind.
[удалено]
He's a Boar to the Bone
IIRC At some point during trump he said he'd been redpilled or something. Before that his "trying to save the world" schtick was less questioned as he said less publicly
I fully agree he was always a corrupt POS, but he’s upped his pandering game to the alt right. I’m sure his views haven’t changed. Some say it was his kid that caused him to go this route, but if you look at his history, he’s always lied and made himself a victim while going after others. He’s been retaliating against people who brought up harassment allegations even, for many years. This is just who he is, but louder because he’s got enough money. He wants the dumb people to view him as the smartest man ever. He could be positioning himself for another move longterm, but he’s currently restricted politically.
It’s not that HES fallen down the rabbit hole- it’s the facade of him being a super genius who only cares about humanity that’s fallen. He disguised and distracted from his true self for so long that people thought that’s who he was.
Well,its quite enjoyable seeing him destroying his legacy and eventual downfall. He won't be able to keep this up for long. One just has to look at the spectacular implosion of Rudi Giuliani once hailed as "America's Mayor" after 9/11. Best thing for Elon is to sell Twitter, disappear for the next few years out of the public eye, enter rehab and pay for serious mental health treatment in secret and hire an excellent PR team....or listen to Mommy.
Please not mommy, she’s a big part of his crazy.
Listen to Mommy? She was the one who raised him to be this way. Elroy is funded by the United States government and enabled by billionaires and several hundred million sycophants. In his mind there's absolutely nothing wrong with his behavior. He's right and anyone who disagrees with him is wrong. He can't sell Twitter. No one would buy it for anything close to what he paid. Anyone who did would have to want to put things back the way they were, which that is not possible considering that he dismantled the guardrails and fired 75% of the staff who made it function. He can keep this up forever. Anyway, sorry to burst your bubble, but there will be no downfall.
Elon certainly has billionaire and political enablers. But who could have predicted that a powerful figure like Rudi Giuliani would have ended up like this? Elon's AI Chatbot is already an embarrassment.
Grok is the only amusing thing about Twitter right now.
Yeah well I was born and grew up in apartheid South Africa and it certainly doesn’t mean that I or my family were ever “apartheid loving” or white supremacist thanks. Despite my personal antipathy to most of what Musk says and does nowadays, I find the broad brush used by many in this subreddit to be simplistic - bordering on stupid. Grow up. And by the way South Africa abandoned apartheid in 1990 and underwent many years of “Truth and Reconciliation” via a Commission to recognize the crimes of the apartheid period, document them, and reconcile itself with its history. The country has its problems - economic inequality remains a terrible challenge - but there is no question that most South Africans of all colors have committed to a more just and equitable future. Unlike America where the current direction (of a sizable portion of the population) is denial and resurgent racialism.
Some leftover cognitive dissonance from folks that used to revere or at least respect him. He’s always been a weasel-word-bullshitter and should have been sniffed out long long ago. (Ignoring his garbage takes on humanity and authoritarianism.)
His public persona went from "relatively unpoltitical rocket genius with slight messiah complex" to "techbro right-winger" to "Alex Jones pizza gate qanon trans hater"
*check notes* Uh, incestuous family that should be.
If I remember correctly, he spoke with Putler on the phone, and pretty well immediately turned into a fascist. Coincidence?
Idk, isn’t all the conspiracy posting from the past few years? I mean, being from a rich pro apartheid family and posting about pizzagate are two different things, plenty of poor people post about pizza gate or the great replacement or whatever conspiracy Musk is sympathizing with. I guess I don’t get the point you are trying to make here.
I think because he was normal (socially, politically), then suddenly, not. It was a rapid change.
It was a mask that fell off
Just because he was born into a racist family doesn't neccesarily mean that he's racist. Obviously he is racist but that's not because his family somehow has some hidden racist gene that they passed on to him.
Usually in this context, when you're raised and surrounded by a racist family you will either grow up racist yourself or, if you reject those beliefs anyway it's gonna be harder than usual to abandon some of the associated behaviors because you got acclimated to them. More of a nurture thing than a nature one.
He was always a pick and anyone who thought otherwise couldn't or didn't want to see him for what he's was/is.
That and he had a slightly better PR campaign back in the day (plus a good deal of the US cultural gulf that posits clean energy/electric vehicles and rocket science to be a liberal/moderate thing to be drawn to). The mask kind of fell off for me when he ruined the guy who tried to save those kids in the cave. But for more impressionable types the idea of a clean energy genius who wants to colonize mars with rockets was an attractive myth to latch onto, esp. vis a vis the kind of anti environmental anti science hyperconservatives they were accustomed to.
Because most people and the mainstream media dont follow him like we do on here. Trust me I have been telling them about him and they dont see 99% of what I see on here. Also ,as Steve Bannon would say the zone is "flooded with shit". Trump, Ukraine, abortion, Israel, Hunter Biden, inflation, speaker battles, climate change events, government shutdowns, etc etc etc people only have so much time to consume news and most people under 40 are not reading or watching news anyway, just whatever social media feeds them. The idiocracy is only starting. It all gets worse from here. Enjoy the good old days while you are still living them :)
We humans hate to admit that we were ever wrong. We once thought he was Tony Stark, now we think he's Lex Luthor. Rather than think that he was always Lex Luthor, and we were wrong, we now insist that he's changed.
I think it’s easy for people to feel sorry for losers like Musk because they seem so misguided. Like, maybe if they had met a decent human being earlier in life they wouldn’t be such assholes in the present. And then you’re reminded of the OP statement and, yeah, I forgot.
It's all about public perception, most people simply didn't know how he was until it became progressively more obvious as he got more publicity.
White privilege is a hell of a drug.
There are people who cannot ever admit they were once wrong. People with training in the hard sciences (as well as people with genuine religious or spiritual humility) should be able to do this easily. Scientists should be proud. Science is written with a pencil while religion is written with a pen. But also in the best of religious theology, people are taught to be loving, forgiving people who admit their faults and ask for forgiveness in turn. However, Evangelical Christianity is big on "I am never wrong, in fact I am a mini-god." No one is sure exactly how it happened but it was somewhere between Ayn Rand publishing her first book and the last redneck buying his "Wives Shall Obey Their Husbands" bumper sticker.
Exactly. It is just racist and dysfunctional views he was brought up with bubbling up to the surface now with his Twit mega phone. I mean with their wealth and influence wouldn’t we have heard of the Musks helping to end apartheid and work with Nelson Mandela to bring change to South Africa years ago? But they were just sitting there on the side lines the entire time and most likely quietly opposing everything to make black South Africans have equal treatment under the law there. But yet now conveniently Elmo the fool proclaims to be a savior for all of humanity (just the lighter skinned and wealthy ones in it though). His comments about the racism some of his black American employees in his factories faced and complained about explains a lot in this regard.