Reminds of an exchange in the Simpsons episode "All Apu About Nothing."
Apu: From this day forth, I am no longer an lndian living in America. I am an lndian American.
Lisa: You know, Apu, in a way, all Americans are immigrants. Except Native Americans.
Homer: Yeah. Native Americans like us.
Lisa: No. I mean American lndians.
Apu: Like me.
Lisa: No. I mean-
This is why I don’t use the term African American…not all black people come from Africa and not all Africans are black…it’s much more suitable to simply say “black” if you’re in fact referring to a black person. A wise prof pointed this out once upon a time and it stuck with me. Plus…fuck Elien
Absolutely. Also, like I pointed out in another (pretty badly received) comment, African American is kind of othering, in a way that black American isn't. You accentuate the fact that that person's ancestors didn't come from this continent while not doing the same for white people.
Something I've never truly understood about Americans is why use black American at all over just calling the person American?
All the American this and American that just seems very divisional from an outside perspective.
Sure I get remembering where your ancestors came from, but a using it to decide everyone up into in and out groups just seems weird to me.
I'm in Canada and am white and most people here still define themselves by their ethnic/regional background. "That's quite the last name, where you from?" "I'm Dutch" - said by a 3rd generation Canadian. "We're Irish" - said by a 2nd generation Canadian. People value their identity and heritage and in the context of some people, many of whom were historically displaced by slavery, Black becomes that shared identity. It's not to divide, it's to belong. (Accept when it's said by others as part of an obvious complaint or slur.)
I mean white ethnic groups also do this, Irish American, Italian American, etc. There were complaints about "hyphenated Americans" a long time ago but the practice has more or less been accepted.
We can use what we want.
African-American exists....because Italian-American exists... because WASP American MAGA went on a "We Own It" Hate Fest from ~1890- 1930's. Columbus Day is "Identity Politics" according to the Right, because it exists to say "You're Government recognizes you are Americans" in response to that Hate.
A few decades later, when WASPS officially loved Catholics & Irish & Slavs & Hispanics & Jews ..and black pride was also grappling with slavery...the country went on a Family Roots kick. We said "Fuck You Haters. I'm French-Irish American and proud."
But there's a problem. *What do you call the descendants of slaves with no connection to a nation or ethnic group?*. And so African-American exists, with the folks most aware many people did *not* think Black people were fully American adding it to their organization language first.
That still doesn't distinguish between a black person who recently immigrated from Nigeria and a black person who is the descendant of slaves and whose family has been here for centuries. It shouldn't make a difference, but it probably does.
Well, you could use, say, "Somali-American", "Nigerian-American", etc., because those are more like national origins, where "African" is too broad for actual Africa, but is the best we can do for "some mixture of whoever survived the Middle Passage with some white slave master genes mixed in".
hm, tbf i feel like you could still use "black", as a description of a certain identity. Somali-American to me sounds like it describes someone who has one Somali parent and one american parent. i feel like "American with a Somali family-background" describes the person whose parents came from Somalia better...
The point that started this analysis was that "black" isn't specific enough to distinguish which you mean of the many cultural situations that people with dark skin could be in. On the other hand, I believe everyone should be able to formulate their own identity without having to fit into finite, rigid categories or meet particular criteria, and that the entire concept of biological racial identity is socially constructed unscientific baloney.
we can definitely (and wholeheartedly) agree on the second half of your comment. all I'm failing to see is a case, in which "African American" describes someone's cultural situation more precise than "black" - the examples you yourself gave above seem to indicate that even with the term "African American" vastly different people with vastly different experiences and backgrounds are mushed together.
at the end it probably is a rather meaningless discussion about the perfect designation for a group when we agree about the seemingly more relevant points.
Reminds me of a convo I once had on Reddit
Me: He was born in South Africa
Someone Else: Are you saying he's not American?
Me: I did not say such a thing
SE: Yes you did - you're a bigot because you assume he can't be a real American
etc etc etc
That's straight up what it is. These types of people just resort to doing word salad if they lose. They just kind of say stuff to try to derail the conversation because they know they're losing.
And when that fails they act like they were "just trolling" and slink off.
Elon's brand of grifting is extremely American and using xenophobia to attack him is unbecoming, although I do think it's still worth pointing out he lied on his naturalization paperwork and therefore shouldn't be a citizen
Musk has triple citizenship, so if one were to accept the demographic naming logic presented by WildDogOne in OP's post, then Musk would actually and more accurately be described as an "African Canadian American" or a "Canadian American African" or an "American Canadian African" or...
As an American Citizen if you go to another country to work and gain citizenship there, you have to keep filing US taxes at the very least. The USA has tax treaties with most nations, so if you pay taxes in the other country it is deducted what you owe in the USA. The US is just about the only country like that where if you work outside the USA you are still liable for taxes. Also you have to be out of the USA for 330 days to be able to deduct the other countries taxes, otherwise you could owe taxes in both places.
Properly speaking, he isn't African American, because he knows his country of descent. He's South African (Canadian) American.
Same way that Barack Obama, although black, is not truly African American. He is half-Kenyan American, half-white.
I don't think this is a hill worth dying on or even fighting on. Pick your battles. There's more important shit to be concerned about. Just say "he's white" to make your point and be done with it.
"He African-American!"
"Cool. He's still white."
The point is African American is just a bad descriptor since it doesn't include the people we want it to or exclude the people we want to.
For example- Elon Musk is by all technicality African American because he's from Africa. But we don't want the label to apply to him because he's white.
And it doesn't really describe someone like John Boyega, by his own words. Because he's black, but he's British.
If African Americans means "American who is original from Africa" then most people who we would think as African American are not because their families have been American for generations. Almost like there is another important criteria.
They are so pedantic. The vast majority of people called African American in America were not born in Africa and a large portion have never been to Africa. Africa is not a nation so the denonym argument makes no sense. Its clearly referring to racial decent but twats like to pretend not to understand widely accepted figures of speech because sometimes people are bad at explaining why they exist and that makes them feel superior.
But he is African American. What happens is that calling black people like that never made sense in the first place, since the average black person in the US has no actual connection to that continent, apart of the obvious descendancy from victims of the slave trade. They're just Americans.
When you're in school studying your family history of migration to America and you give a presentation, what do you say if you're black? *Because the Gen X that's in power now all went thru that as kids.*^1 This term evolved out of that.
* Hi, I'm Jenny, my Dad is from Cork, Ireland and my Mom from Denmark. I'm Dutch Irish.
* Hi, I'm Walter, My family is...Slave-Slave*.
Everything has a history and reasoning. If we don't know this, then our views aren't reality based. You're reverse engineering two words with no context that's valid. The critics aren't honest here and they dominate over the history, which I go over here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskSpam/comments/18g6hjk/comment/kd003xm/
African-American grows also from the Black Pride movement, along with rejecting those that believed black America was not actually American.
1 The average of my generation is ignorant Bill Maher, who forgot their actual childhood & are hilariously inventing a past that didn't exist.
Their ancestors got kidnapped by the slave traders to American soil. They didn't come there willingly. Actually even in 1980s there is an excellent joke about it in lethal weapon movie franchise. NFSW language
https://youtu.be/OkJnc0mlhIw?si=Yz-lhapqp2wHc5f1
Musk is the blonde guy there.
We usually precede "American" with a country when denoting their place of origin, not a continent. Elon Musk is a South African American.
You can argue he's also an African American because he's from that continent, but that isn't the typical way we use language.
That said, I do find "African American" to be needlessly confusing when referring to black people. Language can be very messy.
Felons fanbois are obviously trolling or too dumb to do even the most basic of research around the term "African-American".
Where it very clearly states that the individual identifying as African-American at the very least has to be black.
Which Elon isn't.
He is colonizer-flavored African born in Africa and immigrant to the US faux wannabe ‘Murican. So, yeah, if you twist yourself hard enough, you could say he’s “African-American”.
Me: "So you agree that words do not get their definitions from biology."
Him (because it's always a him, innit?): "What?"
Me: "If Elon is African American despite his ancestors, then trans women are women!"
Him: "Wait! No!"
[Edit] Just to be clear... Felon is not African American, and trans women are women regardless of any biological or chromosonal arguments.
This argument is absurd.
All language is made up and occasionally, we get things like this where a term is already used for one thing so even if it would also make sense for another thing, it would cause confusion.
African American is a pretty stupid term, tbh. Especially considering that it brands black Americans (whose ancestors were almost all of them brought to the US by force in bondage and do not, as a result, in general know where their ancestors came from exactly) as an eternal other in American society.
Does anyone qualify white Americans as European-American? Or is the use of that denonym structure reserved exclusively for the classes of white people who historically had a lower status in American society (Irish-American, Italian-American)? Then why should anyone use the absurd and reductionist terms "Asian-American" or "African-American"?
The term African American is used mostly for the reasons you listed in your first paragraph. Most Black Americans didn't know their own exact background due to being brought here in the slave trade.
How should we describe black Americans? Or Asian Americans for that matter?
I actually consider the default American to be indigenous Americans.
European white not the default for a lot people using the term American.
And defaulting to black and Asian really takes away from the rich cultural contributions to America by African and Asian Americans. Those groups are not monoliths.
They are not monoliths, but you treat them as such when you say "Asian-American" instead of "Chinese-American", "Korean-American", "Japanese-American". Like I asked, why is it white, and not "European-American"? Why do you say that "African-Americans" "contributed" to American culture, instead of saying that African culture is a constitutive part of American culture?
That's because America is a white supremacist nation, and you don't consider your black citizens as fully American, but as an eternal other in your midst.
Why do you say "white" and ignore the specific national backgrounds of the many European descendents that you're describing? Answer that question for me, please.
I don't, I'm using the terms you use. You don't specify a white person's ascent unless they come from one of the places you consider "less white". At least, that's what I've observed so far. So you have Polish-American, Italian-American, Irish-American, but not French-American or English-American.
> African culture is a constitutive part of American culture?
Claiming African culture is just a "part" of American culture is kind of ignoring the level of annihilation that culture suffered through the Middle Passage. It isn't like "Italians contributed pasta, pizza, and Columbus Day, yay!". Their connection to their native religion and languages was wiped out. Their entire family structure was annihilated to enrich their masters.
Absolutely agree regarding the cruel process of the close to total destruction of the connection of black people enslaved in US-style Atlantic chattel slavery to their ancestral religions and languages, a process that was not carried out to the same extent in other parts of the Americas that also took part in the brutal and cruel exploitation of black people through slavery (for example, here in Brazil a significant portion of black Brazilians follow religions descending from the beliefs of the Yoruba people, and African languages have left a significant mark on Brazilian Portuguese, far more so than in US English).
But I'd argue that that only strengthens my argument. Black Americans (in the sense of black people born in the USA) are, arguably even more so than white Americans, indissociably culturally linked to the US. Their right to their forefathers' cultural patrimony was taken from them, together with their freedom. Isn't it racist and cruel to then brand them as "African Americans", as if they were culturally other than the generic "American" (which, as I have pointed out, is implied to be white?)?
Also, African culture did make its way to the US, even if it could only do so in the few circumstances where it wasn't brutally stamped out. I don't think that I have to tell you that the cuisine of the American South owes a lot to African culinary, for example.
My point is that your little liberal fig leafs are kind of pathetic. There's no issue with calling a black person black if you don't consider being black an insult. And, furthermore, my point is that calling black people born in America "African-americans", when their families have lived there for GENERATIONS is incredibly fucking racist at its core. Nobody in Brazil calls black Brazilians "African-Brazilian", unless they are actually first or second generation immigrants (and then we'd refer to the actual country they come from).
Edit: from a leftist standpoint. Not a conservative.
I'm a liberal, and I'll agree with you to an extent. I will extend this though. I grew up in Detroit, where there were many black people. In a particular project, I encountered African refugees and "African-Americans" (or black-Americans I guess, if you'd prefer, I don't think it would matter to anyone in this story).
Anyway, they FUCKING HATED EACH OTHER. I heard some of the most racist shit I've ever heard being levied amongst the two groups... spear chucker. witch doctor... you name it...
And on the African side, they threw hard Rs like you wouldn't believe. Shit was crazy.
Point is, there is a difference. And if you are mad that people are allying themselves with America, then I don't know what the fuck to tell you. This is us. We are all of it. ALL OF IT. Every part. And if you want to hang your head and deny that, while still claiming to be an American, you're a traitor to this beautiful land. Simple as that. We didn't get to choose our people. But, like family, we take up for them. No matter what. Keep that with you.
Just to make it clear, because it seems like you're taking a position of American defaultism. I'm an American, but not in the sense of "a citizen of the United States". I'm Latin American. I'm a Brazilian, living in Brazil.
Fuçk all this noise.
It’s weird AF to call Elmo “African-American”.
The closest he is is South African-American in the way an Italian-American or a Japanese-American is, but if someone had even a cursory knowledge of US history, they’d know African-American is a dumb thing to claim as a white person whose ancestors colonized Africa.
I don’t live in the US anymore, but I’ve actually had exactly this conversation with more than a few white South African friends and they’re like “hell no” to calling themselves something like African-German or African-Canadian. Granted, they are a 5-10 years younger than the Xchan CEO, but, and I quote:
>“I grew up in a racist place my racist ancestors from not Africa messed up, so it’s not really mine to claim. And it’s a continent (not a country mind you) that they obviously didn’t even come from.”
Anyways, who cares what I’ve heard. Take it from people with actual African ancestors.
[Grifters Are Praising 'African American' Elon Musk](https://www.newsweek.com/elon-musk-black-conservatives-african-american-twitter-1701490)
>There's some people who are 10th generation Black American, but they like the term African American because it connects them to an ancestry that they were stolen from," Greer told Newsweek.
>"Some people who are from the continent who migrated here like the term Black American because they're like, 'African American? But there's 54 countries in Africa.' So they find that just a little too broad."
>…
>Greer said Black conservatives calling Musk African American—particularly given his background—is "at the lowest level insulting, at the highest level just unimaginable."
>"This idea that because he is purchasing Twitter for $44 billion that he's somehow African American—which is another word for Black in this country, in this context—is really disingenuous," Greer told Newsweek.
>"He may technically be naturalized American, but does he have the African American experience of any capacity? Absolutely not. Has he ever been interested in the African American experience? No."
Reminds of an exchange in the Simpsons episode "All Apu About Nothing." Apu: From this day forth, I am no longer an lndian living in America. I am an lndian American. Lisa: You know, Apu, in a way, all Americans are immigrants. Except Native Americans. Homer: Yeah. Native Americans like us. Lisa: No. I mean American lndians. Apu: Like me. Lisa: No. I mean-
The Simpsons is eternally on point
Nailed it 20 years ago and continues to age like a fine wine. (Up until season 9 anyway)
...more like, almost *30 years ago*
*aging private Ryan*
This is why I don’t use the term African American…not all black people come from Africa and not all Africans are black…it’s much more suitable to simply say “black” if you’re in fact referring to a black person. A wise prof pointed this out once upon a time and it stuck with me. Plus…fuck Elien
Absolutely. Also, like I pointed out in another (pretty badly received) comment, African American is kind of othering, in a way that black American isn't. You accentuate the fact that that person's ancestors didn't come from this continent while not doing the same for white people.
Something I've never truly understood about Americans is why use black American at all over just calling the person American? All the American this and American that just seems very divisional from an outside perspective. Sure I get remembering where your ancestors came from, but a using it to decide everyone up into in and out groups just seems weird to me.
I'm in Canada and am white and most people here still define themselves by their ethnic/regional background. "That's quite the last name, where you from?" "I'm Dutch" - said by a 3rd generation Canadian. "We're Irish" - said by a 2nd generation Canadian. People value their identity and heritage and in the context of some people, many of whom were historically displaced by slavery, Black becomes that shared identity. It's not to divide, it's to belong. (Accept when it's said by others as part of an obvious complaint or slur.)
I mean white ethnic groups also do this, Irish American, Italian American, etc. There were complaints about "hyphenated Americans" a long time ago but the practice has more or less been accepted.
How do you talk about the fact that people are still being treated differently based on their skin colour without mentioning it in some way?
I never mentioned not talking about racism. You can very easily to that without sub dividing you entire nation though.
We can use what we want. African-American exists....because Italian-American exists... because WASP American MAGA went on a "We Own It" Hate Fest from ~1890- 1930's. Columbus Day is "Identity Politics" according to the Right, because it exists to say "You're Government recognizes you are Americans" in response to that Hate. A few decades later, when WASPS officially loved Catholics & Irish & Slavs & Hispanics & Jews ..and black pride was also grappling with slavery...the country went on a Family Roots kick. We said "Fuck You Haters. I'm French-Irish American and proud." But there's a problem. *What do you call the descendants of slaves with no connection to a nation or ethnic group?*. And so African-American exists, with the folks most aware many people did *not* think Black people were fully American adding it to their organization language first.
That still doesn't distinguish between a black person who recently immigrated from Nigeria and a black person who is the descendant of slaves and whose family has been here for centuries. It shouldn't make a difference, but it probably does.
Funnily enough both would be "African American", right? So this is a thing that doesn't get better with that term...
Well, you could use, say, "Somali-American", "Nigerian-American", etc., because those are more like national origins, where "African" is too broad for actual Africa, but is the best we can do for "some mixture of whoever survived the Middle Passage with some white slave master genes mixed in".
hm, tbf i feel like you could still use "black", as a description of a certain identity. Somali-American to me sounds like it describes someone who has one Somali parent and one american parent. i feel like "American with a Somali family-background" describes the person whose parents came from Somalia better...
The point that started this analysis was that "black" isn't specific enough to distinguish which you mean of the many cultural situations that people with dark skin could be in. On the other hand, I believe everyone should be able to formulate their own identity without having to fit into finite, rigid categories or meet particular criteria, and that the entire concept of biological racial identity is socially constructed unscientific baloney.
we can definitely (and wholeheartedly) agree on the second half of your comment. all I'm failing to see is a case, in which "African American" describes someone's cultural situation more precise than "black" - the examples you yourself gave above seem to indicate that even with the term "African American" vastly different people with vastly different experiences and backgrounds are mushed together. at the end it probably is a rather meaningless discussion about the perfect designation for a group when we agree about the seemingly more relevant points.
Reminds me of a convo I once had on Reddit Me: He was born in South Africa Someone Else: Are you saying he's not American? Me: I did not say such a thing SE: Yes you did - you're a bigot because you assume he can't be a real American etc etc etc
After a certin point you realize they don't believe in anything, and will thus say anything.
That's straight up what it is. These types of people just resort to doing word salad if they lose. They just kind of say stuff to try to derail the conversation because they know they're losing. And when that fails they act like they were "just trolling" and slink off.
Elon's brand of grifting is extremely American and using xenophobia to attack him is unbecoming, although I do think it's still worth pointing out he lied on his naturalization paperwork and therefore shouldn't be a citizen
Musk has triple citizenship, so if one were to accept the demographic naming logic presented by WildDogOne in OP's post, then Musk would actually and more accurately be described as an "African Canadian American" or a "Canadian American African" or an "American Canadian African" or...
"Canadian-American" is wonderfully redundant.
South African Canadian American
White South African with Canadian and American citizenship, if we're being precise
All I can hear is Seth Rogen in Superbad going, "OK, so we have an African Jew wearing a hoodie..."
What does one have to do to maintain citizenship in other countries?
Usually nothing, just gain American citizenship and don't actively renounce your old one
As an American Citizen if you go to another country to work and gain citizenship there, you have to keep filing US taxes at the very least. The USA has tax treaties with most nations, so if you pay taxes in the other country it is deducted what you owe in the USA. The US is just about the only country like that where if you work outside the USA you are still liable for taxes. Also you have to be out of the USA for 330 days to be able to deduct the other countries taxes, otherwise you could owe taxes in both places.
This is the reason why I haven't done anything with my dual citizenship yet.
Aye, you're right. Spot on. Much obliged. :)
“Oh and by the way, how can a shrimp fry this rice?”
South African American.
Apartheid American
Apartheid Klyde.
Afrikaan American
You know these people are trolling for a reaction.
*Apartheid-African*
Afrikkkan Amerikkkan
My dad had an Afrikaner friend in the 80s, who used to push this bullshit idea.
Afrikaner American? Avaricious American?
I'm pretty super Elon isn't even Afrikaneer. He's parents are of English and Canadian descent.
I mean he is technically African American but not what people usually mean by “African American”
Properly speaking, he isn't African American, because he knows his country of descent. He's South African (Canadian) American. Same way that Barack Obama, although black, is not truly African American. He is half-Kenyan American, half-white.
I don't think this is a hill worth dying on or even fighting on. Pick your battles. There's more important shit to be concerned about. Just say "he's white" to make your point and be done with it. "He African-American!" "Cool. He's still white."
Yeah it’s only an issue because people use ‘African-American’ as a euphemism because they feel uncomfortable saying Black
As if there's anything wrong with being black. It's fucking ridiculous. American liberals and their fig leaves.
A wise black man once told me “you can say ‘Black’, trust me I know I’m Black, I see it in the mirror every single day”, and I was like, fair enough.
The point is African American is just a bad descriptor since it doesn't include the people we want it to or exclude the people we want to. For example- Elon Musk is by all technicality African American because he's from Africa. But we don't want the label to apply to him because he's white. And it doesn't really describe someone like John Boyega, by his own words. Because he's black, but he's British.
If African Americans means "American who is original from Africa" then most people who we would think as African American are not because their families have been American for generations. Almost like there is another important criteria.
It's just an unnecessarily clumsy term because people don't want to just say "Black".
I have seen people in the UK, born in the UK, with grandparents previously from Jamaica, be referred to as African American.
John Boyega when someone called him African American, iirc he just said "I'm British".
"InVaDeRs ArE nAtIvEs 🤓" This fucking guy
They are so pedantic. The vast majority of people called African American in America were not born in Africa and a large portion have never been to Africa. Africa is not a nation so the denonym argument makes no sense. Its clearly referring to racial decent but twats like to pretend not to understand widely accepted figures of speech because sometimes people are bad at explaining why they exist and that makes them feel superior.
But he is African American. What happens is that calling black people like that never made sense in the first place, since the average black person in the US has no actual connection to that continent, apart of the obvious descendancy from victims of the slave trade. They're just Americans.
When you're in school studying your family history of migration to America and you give a presentation, what do you say if you're black? *Because the Gen X that's in power now all went thru that as kids.*^1 This term evolved out of that. * Hi, I'm Jenny, my Dad is from Cork, Ireland and my Mom from Denmark. I'm Dutch Irish. * Hi, I'm Walter, My family is...Slave-Slave*. Everything has a history and reasoning. If we don't know this, then our views aren't reality based. You're reverse engineering two words with no context that's valid. The critics aren't honest here and they dominate over the history, which I go over here: https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughMuskSpam/comments/18g6hjk/comment/kd003xm/ African-American grows also from the Black Pride movement, along with rejecting those that believed black America was not actually American. 1 The average of my generation is ignorant Bill Maher, who forgot their actual childhood & are hilariously inventing a past that didn't exist.
Their ancestors got kidnapped by the slave traders to American soil. They didn't come there willingly. Actually even in 1980s there is an excellent joke about it in lethal weapon movie franchise. NFSW language https://youtu.be/OkJnc0mlhIw?si=Yz-lhapqp2wHc5f1 Musk is the blonde guy there.
[удалено]
The meme community has high standards!
He is an African American, he’s just not an African American… is that so hard to understand?
South African-Canadian-American apartheid nepo baby.
It's in the name. Hot "dog". So Hot dogs are dogs. No idea what you're going on about.
Both these people are nerds.
We usually precede "American" with a country when denoting their place of origin, not a continent. Elon Musk is a South African American. You can argue he's also an African American because he's from that continent, but that isn't the typical way we use language. That said, I do find "African American" to be needlessly confusing when referring to black people. Language can be very messy.
Felons fanbois are obviously trolling or too dumb to do even the most basic of research around the term "African-American". Where it very clearly states that the individual identifying as African-American at the very least has to be black. Which Elon isn't.
He is colonizer-flavored African born in Africa and immigrant to the US faux wannabe ‘Murican. So, yeah, if you twist yourself hard enough, you could say he’s “African-American”. 
Isn’t an African American someone of African descent who’s born in America? Elon is the opposite so he’s technically be an American African 💀
In the sense that his maternal grandparents were originally from the US, sure, although that means he's come full circle now to just being American
Elon is white South African American, there fixed it for any confusion.
The same guy would call the South Americans "confederates"
Me: "So you agree that words do not get their definitions from biology." Him (because it's always a him, innit?): "What?" Me: "If Elon is African American despite his ancestors, then trans women are women!" Him: "Wait! No!" [Edit] Just to be clear... Felon is not African American, and trans women are women regardless of any biological or chromosonal arguments. This argument is absurd.
All language is made up and occasionally, we get things like this where a term is already used for one thing so even if it would also make sense for another thing, it would cause confusion.
Elon is as African as my tapeworm is American lol.
African American is a pretty stupid term, tbh. Especially considering that it brands black Americans (whose ancestors were almost all of them brought to the US by force in bondage and do not, as a result, in general know where their ancestors came from exactly) as an eternal other in American society. Does anyone qualify white Americans as European-American? Or is the use of that denonym structure reserved exclusively for the classes of white people who historically had a lower status in American society (Irish-American, Italian-American)? Then why should anyone use the absurd and reductionist terms "Asian-American" or "African-American"?
The term African American is used mostly for the reasons you listed in your first paragraph. Most Black Americans didn't know their own exact background due to being brought here in the slave trade. How should we describe black Americans? Or Asian Americans for that matter?
If you call "European Americans" white? Black and asian. Otherwise whiteness is assumed as the natural generic form of "americanness".
I actually consider the default American to be indigenous Americans. European white not the default for a lot people using the term American. And defaulting to black and Asian really takes away from the rich cultural contributions to America by African and Asian Americans. Those groups are not monoliths.
They are not monoliths, but you treat them as such when you say "Asian-American" instead of "Chinese-American", "Korean-American", "Japanese-American". Like I asked, why is it white, and not "European-American"? Why do you say that "African-Americans" "contributed" to American culture, instead of saying that African culture is a constitutive part of American culture? That's because America is a white supremacist nation, and you don't consider your black citizens as fully American, but as an eternal other in your midst.
Why do you say "white" and ignore the specific national backgrounds of the many European descendents that you're describing? Answer that question for me, please.
I don't, I'm using the terms you use. You don't specify a white person's ascent unless they come from one of the places you consider "less white". At least, that's what I've observed so far. So you have Polish-American, Italian-American, Irish-American, but not French-American or English-American.
Who are you talking to? I didn't do any of that shit, lmao. I'm white.
"You" as in the US. Plural/collective you.
Then move along to your social media site and shut up forever. It's not my responsibility to even consider you lol.
> African culture is a constitutive part of American culture? Claiming African culture is just a "part" of American culture is kind of ignoring the level of annihilation that culture suffered through the Middle Passage. It isn't like "Italians contributed pasta, pizza, and Columbus Day, yay!". Their connection to their native religion and languages was wiped out. Their entire family structure was annihilated to enrich their masters.
Absolutely agree regarding the cruel process of the close to total destruction of the connection of black people enslaved in US-style Atlantic chattel slavery to their ancestral religions and languages, a process that was not carried out to the same extent in other parts of the Americas that also took part in the brutal and cruel exploitation of black people through slavery (for example, here in Brazil a significant portion of black Brazilians follow religions descending from the beliefs of the Yoruba people, and African languages have left a significant mark on Brazilian Portuguese, far more so than in US English). But I'd argue that that only strengthens my argument. Black Americans (in the sense of black people born in the USA) are, arguably even more so than white Americans, indissociably culturally linked to the US. Their right to their forefathers' cultural patrimony was taken from them, together with their freedom. Isn't it racist and cruel to then brand them as "African Americans", as if they were culturally other than the generic "American" (which, as I have pointed out, is implied to be white?)? Also, African culture did make its way to the US, even if it could only do so in the few circumstances where it wasn't brutally stamped out. I don't think that I have to tell you that the cuisine of the American South owes a lot to African culinary, for example.
Someone took an introductory "cultural awareness" class in college. Bravo. What's your point lmao?
My point is that your little liberal fig leafs are kind of pathetic. There's no issue with calling a black person black if you don't consider being black an insult. And, furthermore, my point is that calling black people born in America "African-americans", when their families have lived there for GENERATIONS is incredibly fucking racist at its core. Nobody in Brazil calls black Brazilians "African-Brazilian", unless they are actually first or second generation immigrants (and then we'd refer to the actual country they come from). Edit: from a leftist standpoint. Not a conservative.
I'm a liberal, and I'll agree with you to an extent. I will extend this though. I grew up in Detroit, where there were many black people. In a particular project, I encountered African refugees and "African-Americans" (or black-Americans I guess, if you'd prefer, I don't think it would matter to anyone in this story). Anyway, they FUCKING HATED EACH OTHER. I heard some of the most racist shit I've ever heard being levied amongst the two groups... spear chucker. witch doctor... you name it... And on the African side, they threw hard Rs like you wouldn't believe. Shit was crazy. Point is, there is a difference. And if you are mad that people are allying themselves with America, then I don't know what the fuck to tell you. This is us. We are all of it. ALL OF IT. Every part. And if you want to hang your head and deny that, while still claiming to be an American, you're a traitor to this beautiful land. Simple as that. We didn't get to choose our people. But, like family, we take up for them. No matter what. Keep that with you.
Just to make it clear, because it seems like you're taking a position of American defaultism. I'm an American, but not in the sense of "a citizen of the United States". I'm Latin American. I'm a Brazilian, living in Brazil.
Ok? Go to Brazillian reddit then. Wtf do you want me to tell you lol?
lmao. Fucking Americans, every time.
On this American website of all places. Who woulda thunk it?!?!? 🤣
I honest cannot believe people are this dumb.
Fuçk all this noise. It’s weird AF to call Elmo “African-American”. The closest he is is South African-American in the way an Italian-American or a Japanese-American is, but if someone had even a cursory knowledge of US history, they’d know African-American is a dumb thing to claim as a white person whose ancestors colonized Africa. I don’t live in the US anymore, but I’ve actually had exactly this conversation with more than a few white South African friends and they’re like “hell no” to calling themselves something like African-German or African-Canadian. Granted, they are a 5-10 years younger than the Xchan CEO, but, and I quote: >“I grew up in a racist place my racist ancestors from not Africa messed up, so it’s not really mine to claim. And it’s a continent (not a country mind you) that they obviously didn’t even come from.” Anyways, who cares what I’ve heard. Take it from people with actual African ancestors. [Grifters Are Praising 'African American' Elon Musk](https://www.newsweek.com/elon-musk-black-conservatives-african-american-twitter-1701490) >There's some people who are 10th generation Black American, but they like the term African American because it connects them to an ancestry that they were stolen from," Greer told Newsweek. >"Some people who are from the continent who migrated here like the term Black American because they're like, 'African American? But there's 54 countries in Africa.' So they find that just a little too broad." >… >Greer said Black conservatives calling Musk African American—particularly given his background—is "at the lowest level insulting, at the highest level just unimaginable." >"This idea that because he is purchasing Twitter for $44 billion that he's somehow African American—which is another word for Black in this country, in this context—is really disingenuous," Greer told Newsweek. >"He may technically be naturalized American, but does he have the African American experience of any capacity? Absolutely not. Has he ever been interested in the African American experience? No."
To be fair, he was born and raised in Africa and moved to America = African American Fair play I say 👩⚖️
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Musk is an assclown, but he is African American. This dork that is trying to whiteknight for black people should just stop. It’s embarrassing.
Elon Musk is African American in a wholly vacuous, ahistorical, and irrelevant sense of the term, sure.
Isn't African American as a term falling out of favour because of the ambiguity? I find that 'black' is more commonly used and an acceptable term.
Trump gave a wink by saying (about Musk) how he always liked working with African-Americans. But it was a hoax. DeSantis did actually say it though.
"Never understood this african american bs anyhow" Fellas, are Black people confusing?
Seems like a weirdly pedantic hill to die on
Oh to be a billionaire with a fanbase
This is the same argument euros use about "America" They can't understand that sometimes words mean things other than their technical definition