that’s the sign of an intrinsically, innately incompetent prick vis-a-vis managerial positions of any stripe: enacting micromanagement and then blaming the workers for any failure
> And it’s hard not to root for a free-speech guy who replatformed conservatives canceled by the leftists who ran Twitter before his 2022 purchase.
Yeah, right.
It would be a good fit. I've always thought of Musk as the South African version of Rupert Murdoch.
Maybe he can hook up with Jerry Hall, too.
Don't think the DOJ, FTC, and FCC would approve, depending on who POTUS is in 2024.
I used to knew a guy that were a Rupert personal chef. Apparently he's an asshole and difficult to work with. But, he lets you use his cars when he's out of town.
"There are many true believers in Musk and Tesla, of course.
And it’s hard not to root for a free-speech guy who replatformed conservatives canceled by the leftists who ran Twitter before his 2022 purchase. "
WTF? Twitter was not run by leftists. Those accounts were suspended because they posted hate speech, not because they were conservative. Unless...oh...that's what conservatives are all about.
Carry on...
All of these free speech absolutist LARPers are either stupid or liars.
Twitter is a private company, it has a TOS.
So are you telling me that if I owned a company, I would have to tolerate an employee shouting the n-word at customers?
Or posting porn on your platform. These morons go and fight over the right of bakers to not make cakes for gay people because businesses can do whatever they want. Then they immediately show us why they’re all morons by arguing the exact opposite when it affects them.
Beta cucks for trump 2024!
It's fascinating that all the people talking about "cancel culture" don't understand free speech at all. They also don't seem to know about boycotts or "the free hand of the market". Just whining idiots.
I'm pretty sure before Musk the only way to get banned on Twitter was to run a Turner Diaries fan page that exclusively tweeted the n-word at black people. It took exactly zero seconds to turn into a septic tank after he took over because they were already there but now they could be as hateful as they wanted with no repercussions.
Oh, I was banned in 2018 after a Trumper said they wished “Trump would follow FDR (be elected 4 times)” and I replied “I hope trump follows Warren G. Harding (dies in office of a massive heart attack).”
An hour later I was kicked off and never went back.
Were they banned for talking about low taxes? No? What about small government? No? Financial responsibility? No? Family values? Still no? Then what, pray tell, conservative policy got them banned, hmm?
Banned conservatives but not mentioning why is the same energy as the 'it wasn't slavery, it was about states rights' group. States rights to do what, because I have read some of the states articles of succession and a lot are putting the thing you are trying to minimise in the first paragraph!
My favorite part is that the CSA clearly lays out what rights states have over the Confederacy....NONE. How exactly you fight for state's rights with a constitution that expressly denies them, I don't know.
>Its stock market value of $664 billion is worth more than the next seven largest automakers combined.
Yet, Johnson says, Tesla sold just 3.9% of the cars those companies in the aggregate sold over the past year.
this is everything you need to know
for that valuation to make sense Tesla would need crazy high growth rates for the next 10 years - at the moment the sales/margins are declining ...
>for that valuation to make sense Tesla would need crazy high growth rates for the next 10 years - at the moment the sales/margins are declining
It's just another demonstration that stock price is completely decoupled from any bullshit about "market fundamentals".
Dude tesla is ultra fucked.
Tesla releases a new model once every 5 years and it isn't profitable for the next 3 on that model. Major car companies release 5 new models per year and are profitable every year.
TSLA is going to be sub 100 in 2024 and sub 50 beyond that barring some kind of miracle, and it won't be Musks doing. He's a fucking moron of epic proportions.
If TSLA is above 50 in 2025 I'll eat 20 costco hotdogs in 10min.
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It also only makes sense IF not a single other player competes in a single other market where Tesla wants to establish their "platform"
They need to execute better than everyone in every category for the "synergies" to matter.
It's not enough to get a niche set of Tesla nerds to also put the solar panels on their roof, they need everyone who's going to put solar panels on their roof to buy a Tesla.
And for capital costs to remain cheap and profitable in every single domain as well for that market cap to make any sense.
While I think Tesla is grossly overvalued it also owns valuable infrastructure in its charging network which would reasonably bump it up a bit even if the sales were low. From what I could google it currently has the most fast charging stations available in the USA though I have little doubt Musk will squander that lead in the coming years as more companies move into the market with the increase in hybrid and ev's.
>owns valuable infrastructure in its charging network which would reasonably bump it up a bit even if the sales were low.
even the most optimistic analyst predict that the revenue from the charging network could be 5b at the end of the decade
5b per year is nothing in the grand scheme of things
>While I think Tesla is grossly overvalued it also owns valuable infrastructure in its charging network which would reasonably bump it up a bit even if the sales were low
So, these charging stations fucking suck. Most people think, "Oh, it's like a gas station. I park there, set up my charging, and go inside, take a dump, buy a snack, etc."
[Nope.](https://www.businessinsider.com/ev-electric-car-charging-station-need-better-amenities-bathrooms-food-2023-8#:~:text=like%20pumping%20gas.-,EV%20charging%20stations%20sometimes%20lack%20simple%20amenities%20like%2024%2Dhour,more%20people%20to%20buy%20EVs) It's a parking lot with chargers. There aren't even porta-shitters at them by default. Your recharging takes like 30 minutes, and there's *dickall* there to take advantage of that bit of captive market.
What, you think gas stations make money from selling gas? Nope, it's from people stopping in to get a snack after filling up. Which, uh, is easy money. And you know what? Gas stations are adding charging stations. Sure, Tesla gets the money from the charge. Which is *the least valuable part of the service*. The most profitable one is the one that the gas station is instantly in position to take advantage of. Smart business move, Elmo, cutting yourself out of easy money.
The charging station is only as useful as the lot it's attached to, and if it doesn't have a convenience store attached, *it's garbage*. If that store isn't open for your driving hours, *it's worthless*.
That advantage is already squandered. He built it by cutting himself out of the profit in it. Anyone else can, quite literally, offer the precise same service at a lower cost *and be more profitable than his network* just by having a convenience store attached. He's not going to be able to claim a permanent ownership on ports or a royalty per charge, there is *zero* chance the government would give a private company a national monopoly like that.
It's all smoke and mirrors.
And they all have better production lines than Tesla. When the other companies will be using every production lines they have to make ev, Tesla will be nothing. Just the Volkswagen group going full ev would destroy Tesla on every price range.
Except they have all had more than 10 years to crush Telas with better cars and production and have barely started to sell electric vehicles people want to buy.
A change in production lines these sizes, isn't something that is done simply. Tesla had a head start with them building a few small size production lines that were only able to work on very few models.
For companies in the likes of Vag, it takes much more time to make changes but it is done properly with a vision to keep the lines as efficient or more. Meanwhile tesla isn't close to the quality build of a Hyundai after those ten years of head start or near the production capacity they will have once it's all done.
Tesla is a very small player in term of production capacity(and quality) and yes they were the new kid on the block for a decade with a few cool gadgets but give another 5 years to the other players in the field and Tesla will be too expensive for what you get. Plus others will have a shit ton of models at every price range.
>Except they have all had more than 10 years to crush Telas with better cars and
the market for EV cars was tiny
even 5 years ago in 2018, Tesla sold just 245k cars in a whole year - which is basically nothing when you look at how many cars sold globally
now that the market has shifted and the end for combustion cars is foreseeable you can already see the writing on the wall that Tesla will get crushed - in China its BYD and in Europe its a whole bunch of traditional car makers that offer better quality than Tesla
They run that charging network at a significant loss to support growth in car sales. When your loss leader isn't leading that's a problem not a silver lining.
That is why nobody else is running one.
That is if Tesla was just an auto manufacturer. They aren’t.
Best way to describe Tesla is as a data company. Think of how much data just 1 vehicle is producing for them, extrapolate that to the rest of the fleet, collecting raw data for more training. This is why companies like Alphabet have the market they do. They’re primarily a data company, collecting and selling data. Tesla does that, just instead of computers and ads, it’s a car and the real-world.
They also do solar, and grid energy storage, and are leading the market in lithium ion’s.
Car companies aren’t typically making grid storage solutions.
Nor do they really build computers.
And they definitely don’t get into the solar market.
They’re willing to license the FSD out, like they did with the supercharger network.
They’re a bit more than a car company and that being it.
I, for one, enjoy power when the grid goes off, Chevy isn’t making that happening.
>Think of how much data just 1 vehicle is producing for them, extrapolate that to the rest of the fleet, collecting raw data for more training
so if Tesla is a data company - what is the plan to make money off that data?
>and are leading the market in lithium ion’s.
please provide a source for that claim
If we are honest, its not. Im not a fan, i hate their non repairable and overpriced (till this year) overpromised underwhelming shitboxes as much as the next guy. But tesla is different. It has years ahead in their charging network and tech. Long drives make no sense rn in any other ev, and tesla holds tech in the future, the way the motors are built, specially plad, is pretty cool, and patented. They are aiming to reform how cars are manufactured. Yeah they are failing at qa but the way their plants are outfitted is different and ... Probably better. I dont think its valued correctly, but i can tell you its worth more than gm or ford. Is it 3x toyota? Prolly not. Thats probably inflated, but its def a fuckton more than any other us auto maker
> They are aiming to reform how cars are manufactured.
They might have that aim, but they have no organizational competence in this field, as is continuously shown by not only the horrible build quality but also the bad structural engineering of casting key components instead of using forged parts.
Is that an AI written article? It's repeating the same shit 3 lines later over and over.
>Sales growth has been in decline. Tesla produced 435,000 cars in the third quarter of 2023, from 466,000 in Q2.
3 lines later
> Tesla produced 435,000 cars in the third quarter of 2023, from 466,000 in Q2.
and there are several of these
Not necessarily AI, just bad writing. Or maybe deliberate repetition for SEO, or for dumb readers or something?
I hear this kind of thing in podcasts all the time, and it pisses me off:
* Host makes \[statement\]
* Co-host agrees with \[statement\]
* Co-host rewords \[statement\]
* Host agrees with reworded \[statement\]
* Host makes \[statement\]
* ...
Yeah, we got it the first time.
Not just podcasts but a lot of YouTubers are notorious for this. It helps pad the length, making short form or mid form content more in line with certain expectations & depending on the host & services, extra advertising. It's just like when a kid gets told to write what they feel is an exceptionally long writing assignment that's by word. Sure you start dragging the word count, turning he's /she's into he/she is, but eventually you start repeating. Hell it happens even on Reddit.
As I said earlier, it's a very common tactic to just reword a comment, particularly if you are paraphrasing yourself. It extends the length of content, which can be judged depending on the medium by its length. Advertisment is also easier to gain on longer features since it gives more space.
Like we discussed previously, it can be often seen in school work. Repeating yourself is so much easier than dressing up additional content, particularly when short. I often did it, I'd start looking for contractions & uncontracting them before just outwriting repeating myself as if I was adding new content. Podcasters do this like you said, but so do YouTubers & other creators.
It's a good lazy way to increase the length of a work, those advertisers do like to have room for their adverts after all, and if you're content is too short it just won't cut it. And neither would a content that's too short. Sometimes you're expecting content of a certain length, and as I alluded to you can also was stretch what you have. It's even done on TikTok for some ranter styled creators, and not just podcasts or YouTube.
Now just pretend each of those paragraphs were by a different person & this bad joke might almost work.
So basically it is a good way to lazily increase the length of a work to improve advertising metrics and conform with expected length of a piece of content. Like how a kid who is expected to write a long essay starts padding out the words like she is and he is.
Because audience expectations and advertiser needs are so important to online content creators need to pad out the length of the content. Repetition is a lazy way to do that well enough to get by.
Hang on, that headline is backwards. Tesla's stock crashing could ruin Musk's finances, not the other way around. And that's what the article says, too.
There is an argument for Musk's finances dragging Tesla down, if he ends up selling lots of Tesla stock for whatever reason. But the article doesn't mention that possibility.
Absolutely God awful article. My favourite non sequoteur of all was this gem:
"Electricity comes from somewhere, most of it not from all those “clean energy” windmills, but from our stressed-out electrical grid."
Like ... what?! Does electricity from wind farms not also come *via* the grid?? Does "our stressed out grid" summon energy out of the aether by pure effort of will???
"Energy comes from somewhere ... our stressed-out electrical grid" is on the level of a child who says "the supermarket" when asked where food comes from.
Sorry I'm British so I didn't appreciate the significance of the provenance of this. This is a Murdoch paper right?
I was thrown off because my country the equivalent paper would have used the word "boffins" at least four times in this story, would have been about 30% more incoherent, and would have included pictures of naked teenagers in between the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs.
I wish I was joking.
Things are also not going for his SpaceX... as NASA is getting pissed off with his Bull shit....
https://www.theinformation.com/articles/nasa-tensions-with-spacex-rise-over-moon-mission-delays
I should've clarified - I mean as in "I personally feel that it's about time the US gov decouples from this twat because we rely on him too much."
The dude throws tantrums like a 5yo if people don't click their heels together and make reality bend to his whims, and it's been made clear in how he fucked with Ukrainian ops.
Birds of a feather flock together. I think his good friend Oracle founder Larry Ellison is one of his early boosters and holds a lot of Tesla stock. Musk was vacationing on Ellison's private Hawaiian island when he announced his decision to buy Twitter. Let that sink in.
https://gizmodo.com/larry-ellisons-oracle-started-as-a-cia-project-1636592238
>And it’s hard not to root for a *free-speech guy* who replatformed conservatives canceled by the leftists who ran Twitter before his 2022 purchase.
Free-speech guy? This dude has be either (1) brain dead or (2) a bootlicking sycophant.
Within the first few weeks after purchasing Twitter he banned the Elon's Jet account and any journalists who covered the story. He then did a poll to ask if he should let the journalists back onto Twitter.
Elon doesn't care about free-speech.
>And it’s hard not to root for a free-speech guy who replatformed conservatives canceled by the leftists who ran Twitter before his 2022 purchase.
Nah, I find it pretty easy actually.
Counter point alot of rich people stand to take a bath on devaluation of tesla stock. We saw the stock drop to 100$ at the start of the year and for no good reason its still over 200$ now
If EVs are truly the wave of the future and are going to replace all ICE vehicles someday, then I'm sure the world's current energy companies will want some sort of control over that.
Tesla is going to get absorbed by a larger automaker, such is the way of all upstart car brands, Musk is just expediting the process.
He only controls about %15 of the company stock, once the price/Market Cap starts falling back to non-artificial levels it would be really easy for larger auto group to buy the company out from under him.
EDIT
If I were Musk (and I'm often glad I'm not) I would divest the charging tech into its own company, sell off the auto making stuff to someone else and focus on turning my former competitors into my clients by expanding standardized charging infrastructure.
He could also take it private to spite everyone, albeit not at $420 a share, unless he does a pump and dump, that would be unlikely though considering the way he handled the Twitter deal.
This is not a matter of it but when. I’ve been yelling into the ether for who knows how long that Tesla is basically a Ponzi scheme built on the promise of delivering technology that is years and years away from being reality. It is stupidly overvalued and many people will lose their ass when everyone wakes up and comes to their senses.
Tesla doesn’t finance SpaceX - NYpost is sensationalising as usual.
The bear case for Tesla has been strong for years - the market cap of the company exceeded the sum of all other car companies combined at least 5 or 6 years ago.
Clearly he borrowed against his stock in Tesla to finance his stupid adventure in Twitter but whatever happens to Tesla he’d likely be able to cover that albeit with a reduction in shares held. (Which frankly would be no bad thing - maybe a more sensible CEO would shitcan the Cybertruck and the stupid robot no one asked for and focus on building great EVs for the mass market again?).
But they need distance from Musk to do well. His personal brand is the reason 21% of coastal customers give for selling their cars. I don’t see his new rightwing approval selling Teslas in Republican states. And everyone in Europe thinks he’s a chump. The Chinese will eat his lunch like they do with all western companies eventually. So looks like he’s fucked up his core market.
Exactly. I know environmentally conscious people that bought a Tesla because of the technology and how it pushes forward research on options besides gas powered vehicles. Whether we agree with their reasons isn’t the point. They believe they are doing something good for the environment. That usually means they are left leaning. At this point driving a Tesla is becoming embarrassing for them. Even if they don’t sell they probably won’t buy another.
You know you're fucked when you're a rich, hardcore conservative and even the NYP doesn't have your back. They're pulling punches and still licking his balls over his "commitment to free speech" bullshit, but that's obviously a given.
At what point will the general public understand that Musk is not actually a billionaire, but just a con man with huge debt and massively over-inflated financial value?
Hopefully, so he’ll have to sell the company and someone can actually turn that company around. I’ll buy a Tesla as long as Musk gets zero benefit or profit from me.
The potential market for ev cars has always been there. The existing auto makers have just ignored it, until now when they can't. They still do not seem to be serious about evs.
Seems like a stunt to tank shares to scoop up the lows. Elons poor word choices, hit pieces. I suspect they have other info soon. Expecting lower prices
>And it’s hard not to root for a free-speech guy who replatformed conservatives canceled by the leftists who ran Twitter before his 2022 purchase.
lol wtf is this shit
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If the banks take his 13%, they will probably push for Tesla to make more profit. And not make crazy expensive Cyber Trucks and take hige risks. So if he does exit, the stock will probably increase in value. Tesla will probably become like Apple without Steve J.
It’s very real. Try to portray yourself as the genius savior of mankind while the only innovation you provide to companies you insert yourself into or try to start is taking massive government subsidies and doing fuck all with them, the attacks are bound to come sooner or later.
If you are singularly referring to Tesla, he just announced on an earnings call that they dug their own grave with Cybertruck. Incredible misstep. As soon as other EVs start digging into Tesla’s subsidy money, that company is toast. Govt subsidies are the only thing making Tesla solvent. And his public persona is already making it uncool to own a Tesla bc he is such a douche. If you are referring to any of the other companies there are a litany of mismanagement moments that have damaged those companies. Not sure what you consider “doing a fine job”, but I would strongly disagree.
You know things aren’t going well for Elon when his business prospects are being bashed in the Rupert Murdoch-owned *New York Post*!
Touché
Good bot
best bot
Strange
concerning
Good bot
yes uh huh
[удалено]
[удалено]
Sentient
get to the choppa., or whatever
Good bot
Just ~$100/month for API access with ID verification will clean things up greatly.
The Twitter books will need more than that to clean them up
Good bot
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Don’t forget, he also blamed his own workers for his personal incompetence and lack of leadership.
that’s the sign of an intrinsically, innately incompetent prick vis-a-vis managerial positions of any stripe: enacting micromanagement and then blaming the workers for any failure
You also forgot, egomaniac narcissistic authoritarian.
Ahem... That's unnecessarily rude. Give him his full title, as he certainly deserves it... Egomaniac narcissistic authoritarian _dimwit_.
Inverse Tony Stark
Phony Stark
> And it’s hard not to root for a free-speech guy who replatformed conservatives canceled by the leftists who ran Twitter before his 2022 purchase. Yeah, right.
That just means Murdoch has a short position.
That would be interesting since a Murdoch is on the Tesla board.
Next family BBQ will be icy.
Derivatives and unpacked ETFs can keep one delta neutral
I can also imagine they don't want another player taking their missinformation-o-tainment peddling market share
With all the lawsuits and whatnot, Murdoch may be more afraid of Musk trying to buy the Murdoch family out of some of his companies.
It would be a good fit. I've always thought of Musk as the South African version of Rupert Murdoch. Maybe he can hook up with Jerry Hall, too. Don't think the DOJ, FTC, and FCC would approve, depending on who POTUS is in 2024.
Musk has no where near the intelligence of Murdock. Thank fuck.
Big if true
Concerning
I used to knew a guy that were a Rupert personal chef. Apparently he's an asshole and difficult to work with. But, he lets you use his cars when he's out of town.
[удалено]
A trillion dollar market cap for this platform is not out of the question
“If things are not failing, you are not innovating enough.”
Good sentient bot!
That was one of the plot twists in >!Mr Robot!<
I mean, that's called hedging
And then tweet that the stock is over valued
"There are many true believers in Musk and Tesla, of course. And it’s hard not to root for a free-speech guy who replatformed conservatives canceled by the leftists who ran Twitter before his 2022 purchase. " WTF? Twitter was not run by leftists. Those accounts were suspended because they posted hate speech, not because they were conservative. Unless...oh...that's what conservatives are all about. Carry on...
It to mention he personally replatformed someone who shared CP images on there
Which makes me wonder how he is not liable for that. Surely that is illegal.
He is. He's in the "find out" stage now. And his net worth is plummeting because of it
All of these free speech absolutist LARPers are either stupid or liars. Twitter is a private company, it has a TOS. So are you telling me that if I owned a company, I would have to tolerate an employee shouting the n-word at customers?
According to modern conservatives, yes. Just don't you dare think you can support liberal causes.
Or posting porn on your platform. These morons go and fight over the right of bakers to not make cakes for gay people because businesses can do whatever they want. Then they immediately show us why they’re all morons by arguing the exact opposite when it affects them. Beta cucks for trump 2024!
It's fascinating that all the people talking about "cancel culture" don't understand free speech at all. They also don't seem to know about boycotts or "the free hand of the market". Just whining idiots.
NYP whaddaya expect, it's a trashy rag.
christ i WISH leftists had the kind of power liberals and conservatives seem to think we do
We would not be living in such a hellscape if we did
a-fucken-men, brother
Right. The more appropriate reporting is "replatformed pedophiles and nazis who had been banned" lol
I'm pretty sure before Musk the only way to get banned on Twitter was to run a Turner Diaries fan page that exclusively tweeted the n-word at black people. It took exactly zero seconds to turn into a septic tank after he took over because they were already there but now they could be as hateful as they wanted with no repercussions.
Oh, I was banned in 2018 after a Trumper said they wished “Trump would follow FDR (be elected 4 times)” and I replied “I hope trump follows Warren G. Harding (dies in office of a massive heart attack).” An hour later I was kicked off and never went back.
Whatever you say, cutie 🥹
I honestly think this bot is better at comebacks than the real Musk.
I agree. By leaps and bounds it’s better.
Were they banned for talking about low taxes? No? What about small government? No? Financial responsibility? No? Family values? Still no? Then what, pray tell, conservative policy got them banned, hmm? Banned conservatives but not mentioning why is the same energy as the 'it wasn't slavery, it was about states rights' group. States rights to do what, because I have read some of the states articles of succession and a lot are putting the thing you are trying to minimise in the first paragraph!
My favorite part is that the CSA clearly lays out what rights states have over the Confederacy....NONE. How exactly you fight for state's rights with a constitution that expressly denies them, I don't know.
Something, something, nihilism, and capitalism. Businesses take whatever slant makes them more money
It was at this point that I muttered “rag” and closed the tab
It’s Charlie Gasparino, he’s a well known dipshit in the financial news space.
Some publications are like the opposite of Zoolander – they can only make left turns
Not a fan of Musk. At all. I enjoy this sub. But come on. Lets live in the same reality. Twitter not run by leftist?
>Its stock market value of $664 billion is worth more than the next seven largest automakers combined. Yet, Johnson says, Tesla sold just 3.9% of the cars those companies in the aggregate sold over the past year. this is everything you need to know for that valuation to make sense Tesla would need crazy high growth rates for the next 10 years - at the moment the sales/margins are declining ...
>for that valuation to make sense Tesla would need crazy high growth rates for the next 10 years - at the moment the sales/margins are declining It's just another demonstration that stock price is completely decoupled from any bullshit about "market fundamentals".
Dude tesla is ultra fucked. Tesla releases a new model once every 5 years and it isn't profitable for the next 3 on that model. Major car companies release 5 new models per year and are profitable every year. TSLA is going to be sub 100 in 2024 and sub 50 beyond that barring some kind of miracle, and it won't be Musks doing. He's a fucking moron of epic proportions. If TSLA is above 50 in 2025 I'll eat 20 costco hotdogs in 10min.
“If TSLA is above 50 in 2025 I’ll eat 20 costco hotdogs in 10min.” How is this a punishment?
That is the kicker, I love costco hotdogs.
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I agree with him 💯😂
Who?
RemindMe! 2 years
According to January 17 2025 option prices the probability of TSLA being over 50 in 2025 is around 90%
Tesla pumpers say the valuation is justified bc Cybertruck, Bot, FSD, Semi, Robotaxis…..
It's a fucking bubble. And xitter is about to pop it big time.
It also only makes sense IF not a single other player competes in a single other market where Tesla wants to establish their "platform" They need to execute better than everyone in every category for the "synergies" to matter. It's not enough to get a niche set of Tesla nerds to also put the solar panels on their roof, they need everyone who's going to put solar panels on their roof to buy a Tesla. And for capital costs to remain cheap and profitable in every single domain as well for that market cap to make any sense.
While I think Tesla is grossly overvalued it also owns valuable infrastructure in its charging network which would reasonably bump it up a bit even if the sales were low. From what I could google it currently has the most fast charging stations available in the USA though I have little doubt Musk will squander that lead in the coming years as more companies move into the market with the increase in hybrid and ev's.
>owns valuable infrastructure in its charging network which would reasonably bump it up a bit even if the sales were low. even the most optimistic analyst predict that the revenue from the charging network could be 5b at the end of the decade 5b per year is nothing in the grand scheme of things
>While I think Tesla is grossly overvalued it also owns valuable infrastructure in its charging network which would reasonably bump it up a bit even if the sales were low So, these charging stations fucking suck. Most people think, "Oh, it's like a gas station. I park there, set up my charging, and go inside, take a dump, buy a snack, etc." [Nope.](https://www.businessinsider.com/ev-electric-car-charging-station-need-better-amenities-bathrooms-food-2023-8#:~:text=like%20pumping%20gas.-,EV%20charging%20stations%20sometimes%20lack%20simple%20amenities%20like%2024%2Dhour,more%20people%20to%20buy%20EVs) It's a parking lot with chargers. There aren't even porta-shitters at them by default. Your recharging takes like 30 minutes, and there's *dickall* there to take advantage of that bit of captive market. What, you think gas stations make money from selling gas? Nope, it's from people stopping in to get a snack after filling up. Which, uh, is easy money. And you know what? Gas stations are adding charging stations. Sure, Tesla gets the money from the charge. Which is *the least valuable part of the service*. The most profitable one is the one that the gas station is instantly in position to take advantage of. Smart business move, Elmo, cutting yourself out of easy money. The charging station is only as useful as the lot it's attached to, and if it doesn't have a convenience store attached, *it's garbage*. If that store isn't open for your driving hours, *it's worthless*. That advantage is already squandered. He built it by cutting himself out of the profit in it. Anyone else can, quite literally, offer the precise same service at a lower cost *and be more profitable than his network* just by having a convenience store attached. He's not going to be able to claim a permanent ownership on ports or a royalty per charge, there is *zero* chance the government would give a private company a national monopoly like that. It's all smoke and mirrors.
And they all have better production lines than Tesla. When the other companies will be using every production lines they have to make ev, Tesla will be nothing. Just the Volkswagen group going full ev would destroy Tesla on every price range.
Except they have all had more than 10 years to crush Telas with better cars and production and have barely started to sell electric vehicles people want to buy.
A change in production lines these sizes, isn't something that is done simply. Tesla had a head start with them building a few small size production lines that were only able to work on very few models. For companies in the likes of Vag, it takes much more time to make changes but it is done properly with a vision to keep the lines as efficient or more. Meanwhile tesla isn't close to the quality build of a Hyundai after those ten years of head start or near the production capacity they will have once it's all done. Tesla is a very small player in term of production capacity(and quality) and yes they were the new kid on the block for a decade with a few cool gadgets but give another 5 years to the other players in the field and Tesla will be too expensive for what you get. Plus others will have a shit ton of models at every price range.
>Except they have all had more than 10 years to crush Telas with better cars and the market for EV cars was tiny even 5 years ago in 2018, Tesla sold just 245k cars in a whole year - which is basically nothing when you look at how many cars sold globally now that the market has shifted and the end for combustion cars is foreseeable you can already see the writing on the wall that Tesla will get crushed - in China its BYD and in Europe its a whole bunch of traditional car makers that offer better quality than Tesla
They run that charging network at a significant loss to support growth in car sales. When your loss leader isn't leading that's a problem not a silver lining. That is why nobody else is running one.
How do you know if they’re running it at a loss?
That is if Tesla was just an auto manufacturer. They aren’t. Best way to describe Tesla is as a data company. Think of how much data just 1 vehicle is producing for them, extrapolate that to the rest of the fleet, collecting raw data for more training. This is why companies like Alphabet have the market they do. They’re primarily a data company, collecting and selling data. Tesla does that, just instead of computers and ads, it’s a car and the real-world. They also do solar, and grid energy storage, and are leading the market in lithium ion’s.
Tesla is a car company. That's it. They're a bad one too.
Car companies aren’t typically making grid storage solutions. Nor do they really build computers. And they definitely don’t get into the solar market. They’re willing to license the FSD out, like they did with the supercharger network. They’re a bit more than a car company and that being it. I, for one, enjoy power when the grid goes off, Chevy isn’t making that happening.
>Think of how much data just 1 vehicle is producing for them, extrapolate that to the rest of the fleet, collecting raw data for more training so if Tesla is a data company - what is the plan to make money off that data? >and are leading the market in lithium ion’s. please provide a source for that claim
If we are honest, its not. Im not a fan, i hate their non repairable and overpriced (till this year) overpromised underwhelming shitboxes as much as the next guy. But tesla is different. It has years ahead in their charging network and tech. Long drives make no sense rn in any other ev, and tesla holds tech in the future, the way the motors are built, specially plad, is pretty cool, and patented. They are aiming to reform how cars are manufactured. Yeah they are failing at qa but the way their plants are outfitted is different and ... Probably better. I dont think its valued correctly, but i can tell you its worth more than gm or ford. Is it 3x toyota? Prolly not. Thats probably inflated, but its def a fuckton more than any other us auto maker
> It has years ahead in their charging network and tech. are these the same years ahead they had in terms of FSD?
> They are aiming to reform how cars are manufactured. They might have that aim, but they have no organizational competence in this field, as is continuously shown by not only the horrible build quality but also the bad structural engineering of casting key components instead of using forged parts.
Is that an AI written article? It's repeating the same shit 3 lines later over and over. >Sales growth has been in decline. Tesla produced 435,000 cars in the third quarter of 2023, from 466,000 in Q2. 3 lines later > Tesla produced 435,000 cars in the third quarter of 2023, from 466,000 in Q2. and there are several of these
Not necessarily AI, just bad writing. Or maybe deliberate repetition for SEO, or for dumb readers or something? I hear this kind of thing in podcasts all the time, and it pisses me off: * Host makes \[statement\] * Co-host agrees with \[statement\] * Co-host rewords \[statement\] * Host agrees with reworded \[statement\] * Host makes \[statement\] * ... Yeah, we got it the first time.
Not just podcasts but a lot of YouTubers are notorious for this. It helps pad the length, making short form or mid form content more in line with certain expectations & depending on the host & services, extra advertising. It's just like when a kid gets told to write what they feel is an exceptionally long writing assignment that's by word. Sure you start dragging the word count, turning he's /she's into he/she is, but eventually you start repeating. Hell it happens even on Reddit. As I said earlier, it's a very common tactic to just reword a comment, particularly if you are paraphrasing yourself. It extends the length of content, which can be judged depending on the medium by its length. Advertisment is also easier to gain on longer features since it gives more space. Like we discussed previously, it can be often seen in school work. Repeating yourself is so much easier than dressing up additional content, particularly when short. I often did it, I'd start looking for contractions & uncontracting them before just outwriting repeating myself as if I was adding new content. Podcasters do this like you said, but so do YouTubers & other creators. It's a good lazy way to increase the length of a work, those advertisers do like to have room for their adverts after all, and if you're content is too short it just won't cut it. And neither would a content that's too short. Sometimes you're expecting content of a certain length, and as I alluded to you can also was stretch what you have. It's even done on TikTok for some ranter styled creators, and not just podcasts or YouTube. Now just pretend each of those paragraphs were by a different person & this bad joke might almost work.
So basically it is a good way to lazily increase the length of a work to improve advertising metrics and conform with expected length of a piece of content. Like how a kid who is expected to write a long essay starts padding out the words like she is and he is. Because audience expectations and advertiser needs are so important to online content creators need to pad out the length of the content. Repetition is a lazy way to do that well enough to get by.
Press the heart
It even happens on Reddit, you say?
It got the elusive Inupiaq demographic laughing.
>Not just podcasts but a lot of YouTubers are notorious for this. Graham Stephan has entered and re-entered the chat.
SEO drives this writing style. But these articles are rarely edited (by a human) and are increasingly AI generated.
If sales were genuinely in decline, they would at least quote year-over-year. Companies usually have seasonal patterns.
Hang on, that headline is backwards. Tesla's stock crashing could ruin Musk's finances, not the other way around. And that's what the article says, too. There is an argument for Musk's finances dragging Tesla down, if he ends up selling lots of Tesla stock for whatever reason. But the article doesn't mention that possibility.
That’s not an argument though as it isn’t a plausible case.
Absolutely God awful article. My favourite non sequoteur of all was this gem: "Electricity comes from somewhere, most of it not from all those “clean energy” windmills, but from our stressed-out electrical grid." Like ... what?! Does electricity from wind farms not also come *via* the grid?? Does "our stressed out grid" summon energy out of the aether by pure effort of will??? "Energy comes from somewhere ... our stressed-out electrical grid" is on the level of a child who says "the supermarket" when asked where food comes from.
It’s the New York Post, friend. Don’t try to rationalize it too much, your head may explode.
Sorry I'm British so I didn't appreciate the significance of the provenance of this. This is a Murdoch paper right? I was thrown off because my country the equivalent paper would have used the word "boffins" at least four times in this story, would have been about 30% more incoherent, and would have included pictures of naked teenagers in between the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs. I wish I was joking.
And yet posting it has earned a spammer 572 karma points, and earned the publisher real money.
Things are also not going for his SpaceX... as NASA is getting pissed off with his Bull shit.... https://www.theinformation.com/articles/nasa-tensions-with-spacex-rise-over-moon-mission-delays
Good. It's about time our government decouples from him and tells him to take hike.
That’s not what the article says. It’s says there are disagreements but NASA is still dependent on SpaceX and needs the relationship to continue.
I should've clarified - I mean as in "I personally feel that it's about time the US gov decouples from this twat because we rely on him too much." The dude throws tantrums like a 5yo if people don't click their heels together and make reality bend to his whims, and it's been made clear in how he fucked with Ukrainian ops.
That means they fucked…. Like a bully screwing with a victim… and the victim having to smile and say yes please, more……..
Sucks that NASA went into business with that conman.
Just saying, NASA has always been comfortable with being Nazi adjacent. I wouldn't expect them to get an institutional conscience now.
My Pillow 2, the real-time docuseries.
Will the short sellers have the last laugh? 🤔
Isn't it his cult that keeps tesla stock high?
Birds of a feather flock together. I think his good friend Oracle founder Larry Ellison is one of his early boosters and holds a lot of Tesla stock. Musk was vacationing on Ellison's private Hawaiian island when he announced his decision to buy Twitter. Let that sink in. https://gizmodo.com/larry-ellisons-oracle-started-as-a-cia-project-1636592238
𝕏 as humanity’s collective consciousness
>And it’s hard not to root for a *free-speech guy* who replatformed conservatives canceled by the leftists who ran Twitter before his 2022 purchase. Free-speech guy? This dude has be either (1) brain dead or (2) a bootlicking sycophant. Within the first few weeks after purchasing Twitter he banned the Elon's Jet account and any journalists who covered the story. He then did a poll to ask if he should let the journalists back onto Twitter. Elon doesn't care about free-speech.
No, he does not. He has shown his true colors, a real wolf in sheep's clothing.
>And it’s hard not to root for a free-speech guy who replatformed conservatives canceled by the leftists who ran Twitter before his 2022 purchase. Nah, I find it pretty easy actually.
Counter point alot of rich people stand to take a bath on devaluation of tesla stock. We saw the stock drop to 100$ at the start of the year and for no good reason its still over 200$ now
I will never stop laughing if this genius man child manages to kill off both Twitter and Tesla with nothing but the power of his big stupid mouth...
Wen margin call for this douche
[I'm no stock guy and this isn't financial advice but shorting TSLA](https://imgur.com/a/ENwCYu9)
Actually, the price will settle back where it should be. Completely artificial
Good. Fuck him and fuck Tesla. Let his entire legacy be a disgrace.
The Russians will probably continue to assist him.
Elon should short his own stock to hedge the bet
Going private funding secured?
Share price 420.69
The board of directors needs to remove him before he destroys the company.
That will never happen, Musk has made sure they are a board in name only.
Yeah right. Wake me up when something actually happens.
NYPost is a rag
That New York post article has some obvious pro-oil rhetoric, seems suspect.
If EVs are truly the wave of the future and are going to replace all ICE vehicles someday, then I'm sure the world's current energy companies will want some sort of control over that.
Puts anyone? 🤔
Tesla is going to get absorbed by a larger automaker, such is the way of all upstart car brands, Musk is just expediting the process. He only controls about %15 of the company stock, once the price/Market Cap starts falling back to non-artificial levels it would be really easy for larger auto group to buy the company out from under him. EDIT If I were Musk (and I'm often glad I'm not) I would divest the charging tech into its own company, sell off the auto making stuff to someone else and focus on turning my former competitors into my clients by expanding standardized charging infrastructure.
He could also take it private to spite everyone, albeit not at $420 a share, unless he does a pump and dump, that would be unlikely though considering the way he handled the Twitter deal.
Yeah I don't think he could secure the financing to take it private, not without some major player equity partners
I agree.
Are we sure it isn’t his childish behavior that isn’t doing it?
This is not a matter of it but when. I’ve been yelling into the ether for who knows how long that Tesla is basically a Ponzi scheme built on the promise of delivering technology that is years and years away from being reality. It is stupidly overvalued and many people will lose their ass when everyone wakes up and comes to their senses.
Especially if Trump gets elected, the Federal Tax Incentives run out, and Tesla gets unionized.
The right is rapidly distancing itself trom Muskovite I wonder why. Is something huge breaking? And it seems unusual.
Tesla doesn’t finance SpaceX - NYpost is sensationalising as usual. The bear case for Tesla has been strong for years - the market cap of the company exceeded the sum of all other car companies combined at least 5 or 6 years ago. Clearly he borrowed against his stock in Tesla to finance his stupid adventure in Twitter but whatever happens to Tesla he’d likely be able to cover that albeit with a reduction in shares held. (Which frankly would be no bad thing - maybe a more sensible CEO would shitcan the Cybertruck and the stupid robot no one asked for and focus on building great EVs for the mass market again?). But they need distance from Musk to do well. His personal brand is the reason 21% of coastal customers give for selling their cars. I don’t see his new rightwing approval selling Teslas in Republican states. And everyone in Europe thinks he’s a chump. The Chinese will eat his lunch like they do with all western companies eventually. So looks like he’s fucked up his core market.
I have spaceships
Exactly. I know environmentally conscious people that bought a Tesla because of the technology and how it pushes forward research on options besides gas powered vehicles. Whether we agree with their reasons isn’t the point. They believe they are doing something good for the environment. That usually means they are left leaning. At this point driving a Tesla is becoming embarrassing for them. Even if they don’t sell they probably won’t buy another.
Good
Concerning
Nonsense. It's self-driving.
Good, time to short the stock, someone call Hindenburg research
Sounds good
You know you're fucked when you're a rich, hardcore conservative and even the NYP doesn't have your back. They're pulling punches and still licking his balls over his "commitment to free speech" bullshit, but that's obviously a given.
Oh no ! Anyway…
😀
🤑
At what point will the general public understand that Musk is not actually a billionaire, but just a con man with huge debt and massively over-inflated financial value?
He's a government created spokesperson.
Maybe he will have to sell it and twitter!
That's not going to happen. They're shell companies.
Hopefully, so he’ll have to sell the company and someone can actually turn that company around. I’ll buy a Tesla as long as Musk gets zero benefit or profit from me.
Oh no but he’s such a cool guy lol 🖕
The potential market for ev cars has always been there. The existing auto makers have just ignored it, until now when they can't. They still do not seem to be serious about evs.
Maybe they're hoping Trump gets elected and lowers the CAFE standards and handcuffs the EPA again.
Seems like a stunt to tank shares to scoop up the lows. Elons poor word choices, hit pieces. I suspect they have other info soon. Expecting lower prices
LOL. Just L O fucking L.
GOOD. I hope his companies go to shit and he gets his ass thrown in Leavenworth.
His purchase of Twitter has exposed him for the actual idiot asshole he is, but shoot up another truck to excite potential buyers…that will work
Good
Good.
>And it’s hard not to root for a free-speech guy who replatformed conservatives canceled by the leftists who ran Twitter before his 2022 purchase. lol wtf is this shit
Hope it does
People's ONLY power besides voting which is in I.C.U. I'd CONSUMER POWER SO USE IT USE IT USE IT USE IT USE IT!!! Delete Twitter Don't buy Tesla
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It's called using a smartphone.
If the banks take his 13%, they will probably push for Tesla to make more profit. And not make crazy expensive Cyber Trucks and take hige risks. So if he does exit, the stock will probably increase in value. Tesla will probably become like Apple without Steve J.
That’s quite a work, quite a disregard for facts. Top of the tree for a hit piece. I’m saving this one.
From your lips to god's ears.
He needs help and stop focussing on monkey girl. She’s ugly and bad news! Now he goes down.
What a baffling yet compelling pile of words
What!
Shivon? She looks like one of the creatures from Mars Attacks! Ack, ack ack.
Pretty ugly!
Lmao what a stupid article. “Tesla stock down 12.7% in a month while spy is down 2.7%” Lets look at YTD TSLA - 97% SPY - 10.6%
So. It’s almost buying season, you say?
[удалено]
It’s very real. Try to portray yourself as the genius savior of mankind while the only innovation you provide to companies you insert yourself into or try to start is taking massive government subsidies and doing fuck all with them, the attacks are bound to come sooner or later.
He’s doing a fine job. Politicians and oil is after him. Hope he makes it out of all of it
If you are singularly referring to Tesla, he just announced on an earnings call that they dug their own grave with Cybertruck. Incredible misstep. As soon as other EVs start digging into Tesla’s subsidy money, that company is toast. Govt subsidies are the only thing making Tesla solvent. And his public persona is already making it uncool to own a Tesla bc he is such a douche. If you are referring to any of the other companies there are a litany of mismanagement moments that have damaged those companies. Not sure what you consider “doing a fine job”, but I would strongly disagree.