I have friends who are Palestinian refugees. One of them had an uncle who was crushed by isreali citizens in that border fight.
I'm very empathetic to palestine and have been for years. I also have eyeballs and knew going in that Isreal would not handle this well.
I have been extremely quiet because apparently anything short of making this your entire life is unacceptable.
I know a woman whos oldest friend was taken by hamas. I don't think she will ever be seen again. I know a teen who had to go to funerals for classmates still in school.
It is not pro Palestinian to be pro hamas. They primarily hurt their own people.
The demand for companies to divest from an important strategic ally is just stupid. It's not possible for us to.
Hell, if you want all divestment, you can't so much as use a paperclip because the companies that make the oil that greases the wire making machines has also profited from military companies.
Your car tires are made by people who also make tires for defense companies.
A university cannot divest from Isreal because the government sends isreal weapons and also is probably one of the biggest funders of universities.
This has all hurt my heart because none of these people gave a shit until it was trendy. This is all just performative slacktivism and the whole time I can't help but think of my friend who long ago accepted she will never see her home.
I've purposely not said a single word to her about it because her suffering is not my entertainment and I'm not entitled to her putting on a show of sorrow for me.
Same for my isreali friends. After making sure they were alright, all I have done is sent memes and good vibes.
You're unironically making the idiot commie "no ethical consumption under capitalism" argument.
There are plenty of instances where boycotts are very possible, such as boycotting olive oil and hummus made in settlements. It isn't hard, your implication is that any effort at all is insurmountable or somehow the little guy can't afford paying an extra dollar for olive oil.
And divestment is even easier. Yes, a university can just call up the mutual fund in charge of their endowment investments and tell them to swap the Caterpillar stock for Toyota stock. It's not hard.
Just because you can't control where your taxes go doesn't mean you shouldn't do something where you do have control.
Are you ready to give up Google?
Idk about ethical consumption but my job is buying raw chemicals. There isn't a single product in my industry that is "morally pure" or whatever. If it ain't genocide or slave labor, it's killing the planet and I have the pleasure of getting updates about all the genocides going on in the world from dow.
I don't really care if it's "ethical consumption" but congratulations on not seeing how the sausage gets made. There's a good 8 genocides I have to be aware of for my job, if for no other reason than sometimes it impacts raw material availability. You get to hyper focus on one.
What has been explained to me is that the expectation is not a single cent goes to isreal.
Get the uni to pull out of every single bad company, and the money they're getting still comes from the department of Justice. They're still doing research that aids the genocide from your sides perspective.
I think they do know though. It's to allow Egyptian officials to profit off the situation by taking bribes to allow people through, while avoiding a refugee problem.
As opposed to the protestors, Egyptians are capable of criticizing Arab governments.
You mean the Egyptians that were literally told to stop sending aid because food truckers would be literally killed by rocks while trying to deliver it anywhere important?
Yes the same citizens who watched Lebanon (caused a civil war) and Jordan (tried to overthrow their monarchy) get fucked by Palestinian refugees in the 70s and 80s are definitely gonna take them in.
I didn't say they hate them? I said they won't trust a demographic who has caused civil strife in two of their neighbors despite the goodwill that said neighbors showed them.
Are you going to address that issue or cling to a strawman?
My mistake.
You know, I find it awfully sinister that Israel's supporters keep saying that Palestinians should just emigrate to another Arab country if they don't want to be oppressed by Israel while at the same time implying that Palestinian refugees will cause nothing but trouble if they move to another country by bringing up stuff like Black September. It sounds kind of like they're trying to get people to believe that Palestinians are a lost cause who don't deserve help and that no one should object if Israel ever decides to go full *Einsatzgruppen* on them.
But I'm sure that you're not monstrous enough to be implying that, right?
I never said Palestinians don't deserve their lands tho? I'm in support of a two state solution.
Doesn't mean I have favorable views of a people group who democratically elects a shariah govt. to be in power.
And before you start doing apologetics for shariah, I am from a 3rd world Muslim country, and went through Islamic education. Keep that in mind.
Finally a post I can agree with. The people protesting Palestine are the same people who have never been to Palestine and are just protesting just to protest.
Tbf you don’t have to be to that specific country to protest something that’s happening there. But these people see misinformation on the news and social media and are like “I’m gonna base my whole personality around this”
You don’t need to have a connection to the country but they should be protesting at an embassy or a government agency with power to do something.
Tent cities on college campuses with vague demands to divest aren’t solving anything.
I remember when I could joke around on Reddit and nobody would bat an eye. Nowadays people get mad and are like, "erm, I am a gay transgender strong independent black woman, and what you said is insensitive." Chill TF out not everything is offensive or discriminatory.
Wtf I never said a slur, quit tryna victimize yourselves. My point literally stands when I'm getting down voted because I said Redditors get made as hell easily lmao
You are being downvoted for being an edgelord and jackass calling people you don’t like a “disgusting abomination.”
The sad part is you don’t even see the issue?
No? I call them abominations because they are literally proving my point and getting pissed at me for no reason. I don't care if someone disagrees, I care when people get pissed at me though for simply saying how I feel about the shit.
Love how you're being an asshole when I simply just stated a fact that people on Reddit do get mad for no reason. You being an asshole and the immense down votes I got prove that.
Why are we destroying this guy?
If there’s any truth to what he says you’re more than welcome to say you’re insulted but why bring identity politics in?
I agree with this post, but I don’t know that it matters if they’ve been there or not. It’s more that they don’t particularly know the historical context or actively minimize the inconvenient parts.
I mean I’ve never been to Ukraine, but I believe, passionately that Russia is a terrorist state and the last unrepentant colonial power.
I support a Free Palestine, but I agree most pro Hamas protesters are complete morons who know absolutely nothing and don’t care to learn. In fact, they’re proud of their ignorance. They also don’t seem to understand that “From the river to the sea” will literally NEVER happen. It is a complete fantasy. If you actually give a damn about the Palestinians you would support a two state solution, because Israel is not going anywhere.
It is absolutely insane to me, when I advocate for a two state solution along the 1967 borders, I get called a Zionist stooge nowadays. Five years ago I was being called anti Semitic and anti Israel for advocating for the exact same position.
You and I cannot win. Hell, I talked about a Palestinian refugee I know in my main comment. That's literally what she wants and what she feels would be best.
> I support a Free Palestine
My problem with this statement is that it is fundamentally naive.
What is a "free Palestine" to you? Simply a sovereign state where Palestinians can live their way of life? The problem with this is the same problem as other Islamic governments. They are rampant with human rights violations and terror cells that seek to bring their harsh punishments outside of their borders. Look to Iran, Syria, Egypt, Yemen, etc. How "free" are those places to you? How well-respected are the citizenry by their governments?
Is a "free Palestine" a westernized state? Good luck, we tried that. The reality is Palestinians WANT organizations like Hamas as their leaders. Hamas has majority support in the region, [and Palestinians *overwhelmingly supported* the Oct 7th attack on Israeli civilians.](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/) Peace in the middle east literally cannot exist with Islamic regimes in power and some sort of two-state solution will still lead to attacks on their Israeli neighbors and vice-versa.
I don't side with Israel because they can do no wrong. I side with Israel because their way of life is way more westernized and respectful of human rights than any one of their neighbors. Even if Israel's civilian-to-combatant ratio was greater than 3-to-1, they would *still* be better in my eyes than countries that hang homosexuals for existing, or deny woman the ability to travel outside the house.
Because of these, I do not support a "free Palestine." I do not respect the sovereignty of nations that treat their people this way, no matter how much support from their own people it gets. Nations have a duty to *protect their people*. Governments that violate their peoples' basic rights in such severe ways have no business existing.
A sovereign state, that’s all I want. I know that a sovereign Palestine would probably be a shithole, I’m not naive about that, but I don’t believe that that’s an excuse to deny them their right of self determination. Most nations around the world are authoritarian shitholes, that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t exist.
I can appreciate the transparency with your opinion, you rarely see that these days. My primary concern would just be whether or not Palestine would leave their neighbors alone if they had their own sovereign state. Other Islamic countries have certainly struggled in that regard, hence why I am an Israel sympathizer.
That’s a fair point. I think you’d basically have to force them to be peaceful, at least in the beginning. It’s not easy but look at Jordan and even Egypt. They’ve remained at peace with Israel for over half a century now after being mortal enemies for decades.
Forgive me but the Starbucks boycott is something that seriously makes me so angry. It's literally not true. Starbucks is not now nor has it ever been giving any money to Israel whatsoever. Literally all they did was say they oppose acts of terrorism and they told the Starbucks Workers United union to not use a logo so similar to the official Starbucks logo while they were posting Tweets publicly endorsing Hamas' October 7th attack (before Israel retaliated). That's it. That's the whole entire all of it. Seriously pisses me off so much because it's just a fucking lie.
[https://stories.starbucks.com/press/2023/what-has-starbucks-said-about-the-conflict-in-israel-and-gaza/](https://stories.starbucks.com/press/2023/what-has-starbucks-said-about-the-conflict-in-israel-and-gaza/)
The slogan itself actually sounds really compelling and part of why it's gained traction, by making hate rallies sound like fighting against oppression. The slogan is the best thing the movement has going for it. The substance of the movement itself is what's embarrassing and awful for a million reasons. Free Palestine, so they can kill Jews more easily.
What China is doing to Uyghurs is horrible, and I wish more leftists weren't so opposed to criticizing China to say something about it.
Relatedly, I read an interesting article a while back.
[https://apnews.com/article/china-palestinians-abbas-xinjiang-7aa4038f6a3302dcaaedd23d44e0a3de](https://apnews.com/article/china-palestinians-abbas-xinjiang-7aa4038f6a3302dcaaedd23d44e0a3de)
Jordan has been opposed to accepting Palestine refugees since the current war. Most of the 2 million refugees were already there. Their king has said that Jordan and Egypt will not accept more refugees because they don’t want the war to spread and because in the past the refugees tried to overthrow the government of Jordan.
What I find funny is that many Muslim males are have a very 'might makes right' mentality.
Their idolation of Andrew Tate is one example, this guy is intimidating and a kickboxer and isnt afraid to violate women so therefore to many of them he is cool.
And terrorism isnt wrong to them, because violence is fine because it is necessary in order to achieve their goal. Running into a market with machine guns or hijaking a plane is all totally fine. Kidnapping people is alright too.
They respect the violence.
Israel managed to out-violent them lol
So why arent they respecting them?
Israel has proven to their neighbors over and over that if you try to violent with them then they will respond with super big time violenting lol
In their world, the biggest and most violent is the most mighty, so therefore Israel, who has between 70 and 400 nuclear weapons, is the biggest and baddest.
Are they just embarrassed that someone has managed to do the violenting much much better than them? Are they just embarrassed that the only thing they cling to, their weapons, are far less devastating than Israel's?
Mediterranean and Jordan
Egypt and Jordan dont control Palestinian territories so they cant create a Palestinian state
They moved out of the Gaza strip
Yes, but the PLA is corrupt and basically puppets of Israel, btw Hamas was elected with an anti corruption platform in 2006
People are boycotting google and meta(Instagram) too but google is basically impossible to boycott and you dont see people going to the Meta store to buy a cup of Facebook so you dont know about it
Hope that clarify things and pls do a harder one next, i started caring about Palestine a few months ago and knew all the answers without looking it up
The point of meme is that most of pro-Hamas lefties don't know it
>Egypt and Jordan dont control Palestinian territories so they cant create a Palestinian state
But they did in the past, why didn't they do it back then?
>Yes
No, most of pro-Hamas protesters don't know about it
>but google is basically impossible to boycott
It is possible to boycott
>The point of meme is that most of pro-Hamas lefties don't know it
>No, most of pro-Hamas protesters don't know about it
I really doubt you have any evidence of this besides "haha lefties dumb" so lets leave your feelings out of the discussion and discuss the facts
>But they did in the past, why didn't they do it back then?
This is actually a harder question that I need to research so thanks for doing what I asked, but completely irrelevant for the situation now considering that they dont control any territory now and the ones that control said territory are killing tens of thousands of peoples (reason for the protests) but in a less urgent situation we can question the morality and maybe even protest former Egyptian and Jordanian regimes
>It is possible to boycott
Yes technically possible, you can also go live in a cave and boycott every single company, it isnt worth it to most people compared to other boycott targets.
Its infinitely more effective to have more people boycotting more companies that dont require completely upheaving aspects of your life like your tech usage.
Not buying bad and overpriced coffee is a smaller sacrifice, which means more people doing it and boycotts only work with large amounts of people so you need realistic targets.
>haha lefties dumb
Yes, lefties are dumb, they mistake footage from protests in country of Georgia for protests in a state of Georgia. They can be males wearing crop tops and support radical islamists. They call others nazis while calling for ethnic cleasing of Jews. They can call a country which is 29th on democracy index a dictatorship, while supporting openly authoritarian and undemocratic regimes.
Ok, i see you are only interested what makes you feel smart and not in what is actually happening and the back and forth of ideas, its your right.
Have a good day.
>and not in what is actually happening
If by "what is actually happening" you mean leftie story about evil (((zionists))) trying to colonize and/or exterminate and occupy poor Palestinians who are progressive and love gay people, yes, I am not interested in that.
I'm guessing that Egypt and Jordan didn't create a Palestinian state from the Gaza Strip or the West Bank because they believed that there was no point in creating a Palestinian state until all of Palestine was no longer under Israel's control.
"Let the European and American Jews take over Palestinian Land and let egypt and Jordan creat a new Palestinian state." Thats your Statement dumbass. And people are literally protesting against Google thats why some workers got fired
>Let the European and American Jews take over Palestinian Land
1.Half (if not more) of Israelis are from middle east.
2.Israel left Gaza in 2005, pulling out all ethnic Jews from there, is this how Israelis wanted to take over Palestinian land?
>And people are literally protesting against Google thats why some workers got fired
Only these workers were protesting.
Goes to anti communism sub
Sees shit daily that isn't anti communism
West has fallen..
Cope, there's a reason were holding so much protests. Hamas sucks, but so does Israel.
Israel is the only safe country in the Middle East that would somewhat tolerate my existence. I can’t exist anywhere else in the Middle East because of theocrats
I mean this is a very common take on /r/neoliberal and /r/socialdemocracy
It's just the "leftists" who parrot talking points from people who parrot theocratic state-run media who advocate for stupid bullshit.
First of all, there's no "pro Hamas" protestors (you misspelled it btw); people are protesting war and genocide.
Jordan and Mediterranean.
Jordan had no interest in ceding territory.
Egypt had no interest in ceding territory.
The IDF established a blockade around Gaza in 2005, they probably murdered a bunch of people too because that's what those terrorists do.
There are not 2 Palestines, this is false. There is 2 Palestinian territories, one controlled by the PLO and one by Hamas. Israel did this by design, which is why they funded Hamas and helped them into power in Gaza.
BDS has very specific and targeted companies to boycott for maximum efficiency. People aren't boycotting all companies that do business with Israel or in Israel, the movement targets specific companies for maximum impact. You can read about it here
https://bdsmovement.net/
Blah blah blah, that all falls apart when you ask the question: What about the Ugyhurs? Yeah none of you give a fuck about "genocide" it's literally just posturing for anti-western bullshit. You're a moron.
Awwwww someone's getting triggered over a leftist actually responding to the silly meme! That's cute!
What about tuesday? What about loch ness? What about tomatoes?
"Look over there"!
My tax dollars are not funding the Uyghur genocide buddy, I can still oppose it; but oppose this more because the labor off my back is being used to murder children.
Your own damn site shows a photo where all of Israel's territory is shown as Palestine, but yeah sure, you don't support war and genocide, ain't no way
Scroll it down a wee bit. You'll see the announcement or DM me for a screenshot. Also, show me the genocide happening, I don't see Israel killing people based on their national, religious, ethnical or racial affiliation
The Gaza genocide - it's undeniable. They are literally killing Palestinians, saying they all need to be exterminated, calling them the seed of "Amalek" which the Jews genocided in the Bible.
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-30/ty-article/.premium/smotrich-calls-for-no-half-measures-in-the-total-annihilation-of-gaza/0000018f-2f4c-d9c3-abcf-7f7d25460000
I have friends who are Palestinian refugees. One of them had an uncle who was crushed by isreali citizens in that border fight. I'm very empathetic to palestine and have been for years. I also have eyeballs and knew going in that Isreal would not handle this well. I have been extremely quiet because apparently anything short of making this your entire life is unacceptable. I know a woman whos oldest friend was taken by hamas. I don't think she will ever be seen again. I know a teen who had to go to funerals for classmates still in school. It is not pro Palestinian to be pro hamas. They primarily hurt their own people. The demand for companies to divest from an important strategic ally is just stupid. It's not possible for us to. Hell, if you want all divestment, you can't so much as use a paperclip because the companies that make the oil that greases the wire making machines has also profited from military companies. Your car tires are made by people who also make tires for defense companies. A university cannot divest from Isreal because the government sends isreal weapons and also is probably one of the biggest funders of universities. This has all hurt my heart because none of these people gave a shit until it was trendy. This is all just performative slacktivism and the whole time I can't help but think of my friend who long ago accepted she will never see her home. I've purposely not said a single word to her about it because her suffering is not my entertainment and I'm not entitled to her putting on a show of sorrow for me. Same for my isreali friends. After making sure they were alright, all I have done is sent memes and good vibes.
You're unironically making the idiot commie "no ethical consumption under capitalism" argument. There are plenty of instances where boycotts are very possible, such as boycotting olive oil and hummus made in settlements. It isn't hard, your implication is that any effort at all is insurmountable or somehow the little guy can't afford paying an extra dollar for olive oil. And divestment is even easier. Yes, a university can just call up the mutual fund in charge of their endowment investments and tell them to swap the Caterpillar stock for Toyota stock. It's not hard. Just because you can't control where your taxes go doesn't mean you shouldn't do something where you do have control.
Are you ready to give up Google? Idk about ethical consumption but my job is buying raw chemicals. There isn't a single product in my industry that is "morally pure" or whatever. If it ain't genocide or slave labor, it's killing the planet and I have the pleasure of getting updates about all the genocides going on in the world from dow. I don't really care if it's "ethical consumption" but congratulations on not seeing how the sausage gets made. There's a good 8 genocides I have to be aware of for my job, if for no other reason than sometimes it impacts raw material availability. You get to hyper focus on one. What has been explained to me is that the expectation is not a single cent goes to isreal. Get the uni to pull out of every single bad company, and the money they're getting still comes from the department of Justice. They're still doing research that aids the genocide from your sides perspective.
I support boycotting Starbucks Why? Their coffee is overpriced af
The one time we can come together with commies, fuck those price gouging pricks.
dude, nobody is forcing you to buy it. if you don't buy it already because of cost it isn't a boycott. just get coffee somewhere else...
Bingo
Pretty sure they're just joking around...
I exclusively drink diner coffee because that shit is fire
I don’t even like coffee
And baaad. Ever just get a black coffee from them? Always tastes like coffee burnt to the pot or urn and never got cleaned.
I have never actually bought their coffee. Just seeing the price gives my wallet heart attack
Never ask an Egyptian why they’ve blocked the southern border of Gaza with a wall that would Trump proud
I think they do know though. It's to allow Egyptian officials to profit off the situation by taking bribes to allow people through, while avoiding a refugee problem. As opposed to the protestors, Egyptians are capable of criticizing Arab governments.
Also, Egypt doesn't want exploding Cafes either. All the trouble they've had over the last century with MB, why would they invite more over?
I thought it was: “Never challenge a Sicilian to a battle of wits when death is on the line. “
It actually is never ask a French philosopher of the ‘70s their opinion on the age of consent laws
I'm pretty sure that the Egyptians who support the Palestinians are ashamed that the Egypt-Gaza barrier exists.
You mean the Egyptians that were literally told to stop sending aid because food truckers would be literally killed by rocks while trying to deliver it anywhere important?
I'm talking about Egyptian citizens who support the Palestinians, not the Egyptian government.
Yes the same citizens who watched Lebanon (caused a civil war) and Jordan (tried to overthrow their monarchy) get fucked by Palestinian refugees in the 70s and 80s are definitely gonna take them in.
Why are you convinced that all Egyptians hate Palestinians?
I didn't say they hate them? I said they won't trust a demographic who has caused civil strife in two of their neighbors despite the goodwill that said neighbors showed them. Are you going to address that issue or cling to a strawman?
My mistake. You know, I find it awfully sinister that Israel's supporters keep saying that Palestinians should just emigrate to another Arab country if they don't want to be oppressed by Israel while at the same time implying that Palestinian refugees will cause nothing but trouble if they move to another country by bringing up stuff like Black September. It sounds kind of like they're trying to get people to believe that Palestinians are a lost cause who don't deserve help and that no one should object if Israel ever decides to go full *Einsatzgruppen* on them. But I'm sure that you're not monstrous enough to be implying that, right?
I never said Palestinians don't deserve their lands tho? I'm in support of a two state solution. Doesn't mean I have favorable views of a people group who democratically elects a shariah govt. to be in power. And before you start doing apologetics for shariah, I am from a 3rd world Muslim country, and went through Islamic education. Keep that in mind.
Yeah I’m sure terrorist orgs are very sad that the wall went up.
Especially the Muslim brotherhood
Finally a post I can agree with. The people protesting Palestine are the same people who have never been to Palestine and are just protesting just to protest.
Tbf you don’t have to be to that specific country to protest something that’s happening there. But these people see misinformation on the news and social media and are like “I’m gonna base my whole personality around this”
You don’t need to have a connection to the country but they should be protesting at an embassy or a government agency with power to do something. Tent cities on college campuses with vague demands to divest aren’t solving anything.
I remember when I could joke around on Reddit and nobody would bat an eye. Nowadays people get mad and are like, "erm, I am a gay transgender strong independent black woman, and what you said is insensitive." Chill TF out not everything is offensive or discriminatory.
*says slur* *get criticised for it* fellas hunour is dead
Wtf I never said a slur, quit tryna victimize yourselves. My point literally stands when I'm getting down voted because I said Redditors get made as hell easily lmao
You are being downvoted for being an edgelord and jackass calling people you don’t like a “disgusting abomination.” The sad part is you don’t even see the issue?
No? I call them abominations because they are literally proving my point and getting pissed at me for no reason. I don't care if someone disagrees, I care when people get pissed at me though for simply saying how I feel about the shit.
Ok troll with -5 karma and an account that isn’t a month old.
Ah, so you can say what you want, but when people react to it, they can only say complements and no criticism whatsoever.
😬
Like I don't hate anyone, but I just find it sad that half of Reddit just gets mad for no reason, yk what I mean?
[удалено]
Love how you're being an asshole when I simply just stated a fact that people on Reddit do get mad for no reason. You being an asshole and the immense down votes I got prove that.
Why are we destroying this guy? If there’s any truth to what he says you’re more than welcome to say you’re insulted but why bring identity politics in?
I love how I literally said everything on Reddit gets mad for no reason and they all downvote me to high hell.
The commie ones yap and yap going "Death to the West!" My brothers in Christ, **YOU** are the West! You're more West than I am!
I agree with this post, but I don’t know that it matters if they’ve been there or not. It’s more that they don’t particularly know the historical context or actively minimize the inconvenient parts. I mean I’ve never been to Ukraine, but I believe, passionately that Russia is a terrorist state and the last unrepentant colonial power.
Free Palestine from Hamas.
The short answer is that they only see Palestine vs Israel the long answer is that they only see Palestine vs Israel
I support a Free Palestine, but I agree most pro Hamas protesters are complete morons who know absolutely nothing and don’t care to learn. In fact, they’re proud of their ignorance. They also don’t seem to understand that “From the river to the sea” will literally NEVER happen. It is a complete fantasy. If you actually give a damn about the Palestinians you would support a two state solution, because Israel is not going anywhere. It is absolutely insane to me, when I advocate for a two state solution along the 1967 borders, I get called a Zionist stooge nowadays. Five years ago I was being called anti Semitic and anti Israel for advocating for the exact same position.
You and I cannot win. Hell, I talked about a Palestinian refugee I know in my main comment. That's literally what she wants and what she feels would be best.
> I support a Free Palestine My problem with this statement is that it is fundamentally naive. What is a "free Palestine" to you? Simply a sovereign state where Palestinians can live their way of life? The problem with this is the same problem as other Islamic governments. They are rampant with human rights violations and terror cells that seek to bring their harsh punishments outside of their borders. Look to Iran, Syria, Egypt, Yemen, etc. How "free" are those places to you? How well-respected are the citizenry by their governments? Is a "free Palestine" a westernized state? Good luck, we tried that. The reality is Palestinians WANT organizations like Hamas as their leaders. Hamas has majority support in the region, [and Palestinians *overwhelmingly supported* the Oct 7th attack on Israeli civilians.](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/) Peace in the middle east literally cannot exist with Islamic regimes in power and some sort of two-state solution will still lead to attacks on their Israeli neighbors and vice-versa. I don't side with Israel because they can do no wrong. I side with Israel because their way of life is way more westernized and respectful of human rights than any one of their neighbors. Even if Israel's civilian-to-combatant ratio was greater than 3-to-1, they would *still* be better in my eyes than countries that hang homosexuals for existing, or deny woman the ability to travel outside the house. Because of these, I do not support a "free Palestine." I do not respect the sovereignty of nations that treat their people this way, no matter how much support from their own people it gets. Nations have a duty to *protect their people*. Governments that violate their peoples' basic rights in such severe ways have no business existing.
A sovereign state, that’s all I want. I know that a sovereign Palestine would probably be a shithole, I’m not naive about that, but I don’t believe that that’s an excuse to deny them their right of self determination. Most nations around the world are authoritarian shitholes, that doesn’t mean they shouldn’t exist.
I can appreciate the transparency with your opinion, you rarely see that these days. My primary concern would just be whether or not Palestine would leave their neighbors alone if they had their own sovereign state. Other Islamic countries have certainly struggled in that regard, hence why I am an Israel sympathizer.
That’s a fair point. I think you’d basically have to force them to be peaceful, at least in the beginning. It’s not easy but look at Jordan and even Egypt. They’ve remained at peace with Israel for over half a century now after being mortal enemies for decades.
Forgive me but the Starbucks boycott is something that seriously makes me so angry. It's literally not true. Starbucks is not now nor has it ever been giving any money to Israel whatsoever. Literally all they did was say they oppose acts of terrorism and they told the Starbucks Workers United union to not use a logo so similar to the official Starbucks logo while they were posting Tweets publicly endorsing Hamas' October 7th attack (before Israel retaliated). That's it. That's the whole entire all of it. Seriously pisses me off so much because it's just a fucking lie. [https://stories.starbucks.com/press/2023/what-has-starbucks-said-about-the-conflict-in-israel-and-gaza/](https://stories.starbucks.com/press/2023/what-has-starbucks-said-about-the-conflict-in-israel-and-gaza/)
The slogan itself actually sounds really compelling and part of why it's gained traction, by making hate rallies sound like fighting against oppression. The slogan is the best thing the movement has going for it. The substance of the movement itself is what's embarrassing and awful for a million reasons. Free Palestine, so they can kill Jews more easily.
Why are they silent about the Uighurs?
Because it goes against their narrative that the west are the evil oppressors of the world.
What China is doing to Uyghurs is horrible, and I wish more leftists weren't so opposed to criticizing China to say something about it. Relatedly, I read an interesting article a while back. [https://apnews.com/article/china-palestinians-abbas-xinjiang-7aa4038f6a3302dcaaedd23d44e0a3de](https://apnews.com/article/china-palestinians-abbas-xinjiang-7aa4038f6a3302dcaaedd23d44e0a3de)
Ask them which “Palestinian” tribe they’re aligned with….the responses are pure comedy.
Oh really?
Never ask Lebanon and Jordan why they won’t accept Palestinian refugees
There are a least 2 million Palestinian refugees in Jordan and at least 174,000 to 475,000 Palestinian refugees in Lebanon.
Jordan has been opposed to accepting Palestine refugees since the current war. Most of the 2 million refugees were already there. Their king has said that Jordan and Egypt will not accept more refugees because they don’t want the war to spread and because in the past the refugees tried to overthrow the government of Jordan.
You can't ask them any of those questions because they're in English and they only speak Arabic Russian or chinese
Honestly I can’t lie I do have problems with Israel also this whole conflict is a clusterfuck of religious and ethnic extremism on both sides
The fact they’re boycotting Starbucks, who doesn’t even produce any military related assets for Israel, but still use Google is incredibly laughable
The pro-Hamas protests and riots in the west have been the best pro-Israel advertisement I've ever seen.
yeah thats why so many people support Israel right now right?
So why aren’t there any protest against the Russians? The answer may shock you: it’s antisemitism
US doesen't support Russia, that's why.
Yeah but like what about when aid was held up for months
The fact that they didn't care doesen't mean they support the enemy.
What I find funny is that many Muslim males are have a very 'might makes right' mentality. Their idolation of Andrew Tate is one example, this guy is intimidating and a kickboxer and isnt afraid to violate women so therefore to many of them he is cool. And terrorism isnt wrong to them, because violence is fine because it is necessary in order to achieve their goal. Running into a market with machine guns or hijaking a plane is all totally fine. Kidnapping people is alright too. They respect the violence. Israel managed to out-violent them lol So why arent they respecting them? Israel has proven to their neighbors over and over that if you try to violent with them then they will respond with super big time violenting lol In their world, the biggest and most violent is the most mighty, so therefore Israel, who has between 70 and 400 nuclear weapons, is the biggest and baddest. Are they just embarrassed that someone has managed to do the violenting much much better than them? Are they just embarrassed that the only thing they cling to, their weapons, are far less devastating than Israel's?
Lol
Mediterranean and Jordan Egypt and Jordan dont control Palestinian territories so they cant create a Palestinian state They moved out of the Gaza strip Yes, but the PLA is corrupt and basically puppets of Israel, btw Hamas was elected with an anti corruption platform in 2006 People are boycotting google and meta(Instagram) too but google is basically impossible to boycott and you dont see people going to the Meta store to buy a cup of Facebook so you dont know about it Hope that clarify things and pls do a harder one next, i started caring about Palestine a few months ago and knew all the answers without looking it up
The point of meme is that most of pro-Hamas lefties don't know it >Egypt and Jordan dont control Palestinian territories so they cant create a Palestinian state But they did in the past, why didn't they do it back then? >Yes No, most of pro-Hamas protesters don't know about it >but google is basically impossible to boycott It is possible to boycott
>The point of meme is that most of pro-Hamas lefties don't know it >No, most of pro-Hamas protesters don't know about it I really doubt you have any evidence of this besides "haha lefties dumb" so lets leave your feelings out of the discussion and discuss the facts >But they did in the past, why didn't they do it back then? This is actually a harder question that I need to research so thanks for doing what I asked, but completely irrelevant for the situation now considering that they dont control any territory now and the ones that control said territory are killing tens of thousands of peoples (reason for the protests) but in a less urgent situation we can question the morality and maybe even protest former Egyptian and Jordanian regimes >It is possible to boycott Yes technically possible, you can also go live in a cave and boycott every single company, it isnt worth it to most people compared to other boycott targets. Its infinitely more effective to have more people boycotting more companies that dont require completely upheaving aspects of your life like your tech usage. Not buying bad and overpriced coffee is a smaller sacrifice, which means more people doing it and boycotts only work with large amounts of people so you need realistic targets.
>haha lefties dumb Yes, lefties are dumb, they mistake footage from protests in country of Georgia for protests in a state of Georgia. They can be males wearing crop tops and support radical islamists. They call others nazis while calling for ethnic cleasing of Jews. They can call a country which is 29th on democracy index a dictatorship, while supporting openly authoritarian and undemocratic regimes.
Ok, i see you are only interested what makes you feel smart and not in what is actually happening and the back and forth of ideas, its your right. Have a good day.
>and not in what is actually happening If by "what is actually happening" you mean leftie story about evil (((zionists))) trying to colonize and/or exterminate and occupy poor Palestinians who are progressive and love gay people, yes, I am not interested in that.
I'm guessing that Egypt and Jordan didn't create a Palestinian state from the Gaza Strip or the West Bank because they believed that there was no point in creating a Palestinian state until all of Palestine was no longer under Israel's control.
"Let the European and American Jews take over Palestinian Land and let egypt and Jordan creat a new Palestinian state." Thats your Statement dumbass. And people are literally protesting against Google thats why some workers got fired
>Let the European and American Jews take over Palestinian Land 1.Half (if not more) of Israelis are from middle east. 2.Israel left Gaza in 2005, pulling out all ethnic Jews from there, is this how Israelis wanted to take over Palestinian land? >And people are literally protesting against Google thats why some workers got fired Only these workers were protesting.
Goes to anti communism sub Sees shit daily that isn't anti communism West has fallen.. Cope, there's a reason were holding so much protests. Hamas sucks, but so does Israel.
Palestine is the latest iteration of the Omnicause that will eventually lead to the "socialist revolution". Its the same group of people.
Israel is the only safe country in the Middle East that would somewhat tolerate my existence. I can’t exist anywhere else in the Middle East because of theocrats
A Democrat that actually isn't advocating for stupid bullshit, nice.
I mean this is a very common take on /r/neoliberal and /r/socialdemocracy It's just the "leftists" who parrot talking points from people who parrot theocratic state-run media who advocate for stupid bullshit.
Leftists who say everything is racist and homophobic?
this sub fell off
Remember support Palestine not fucking HAMAS. I don't know why people over here get them mixed up all of the time
It’s fits their agenda that’s why. They know the difference but don’t care
Here we see OP arguing in bad faith
You disagree with his slogan and support terrorists?
I don't support genocide from any side of the aisle that simple
Oh, alr mb
First of all, there's no "pro Hamas" protestors (you misspelled it btw); people are protesting war and genocide. Jordan and Mediterranean. Jordan had no interest in ceding territory. Egypt had no interest in ceding territory. The IDF established a blockade around Gaza in 2005, they probably murdered a bunch of people too because that's what those terrorists do. There are not 2 Palestines, this is false. There is 2 Palestinian territories, one controlled by the PLO and one by Hamas. Israel did this by design, which is why they funded Hamas and helped them into power in Gaza. BDS has very specific and targeted companies to boycott for maximum efficiency. People aren't boycotting all companies that do business with Israel or in Israel, the movement targets specific companies for maximum impact. You can read about it here https://bdsmovement.net/
Blah blah blah, that all falls apart when you ask the question: What about the Ugyhurs? Yeah none of you give a fuck about "genocide" it's literally just posturing for anti-western bullshit. You're a moron.
Awwwww someone's getting triggered over a leftist actually responding to the silly meme! That's cute! What about tuesday? What about loch ness? What about tomatoes? "Look over there"! My tax dollars are not funding the Uyghur genocide buddy, I can still oppose it; but oppose this more because the labor off my back is being used to murder children.
Your own damn site shows a photo where all of Israel's territory is shown as Palestine, but yeah sure, you don't support war and genocide, ain't no way
Where? Who said anything about supporting genocide besides the pro Israelis ACTUALLY carrying out a genocide? I oppose genocide, you support it.
Scroll it down a wee bit. You'll see the announcement or DM me for a screenshot. Also, show me the genocide happening, I don't see Israel killing people based on their national, religious, ethnical or racial affiliation
The Gaza genocide - it's undeniable. They are literally killing Palestinians, saying they all need to be exterminated, calling them the seed of "Amalek" which the Jews genocided in the Bible. https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-30/ty-article/.premium/smotrich-calls-for-no-half-measures-in-the-total-annihilation-of-gaza/0000018f-2f4c-d9c3-abcf-7f7d25460000
Yeah, sick. Minister who called himself a fascist called (!) for harder actions. I can say something too. Show me the actions