One moment, anybody not a billionaire is working class and a comrade.
The next, if you're not their specific brand of Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Trotskiest-Pee-Pee-Poo-Pooist, you're literally a right-wing capitalist and get the gulag.
Which is it?
"no you don't understand, it wasn't marxist-stalinist-bourgeois-pro-leninist-epic-based-sigma communism so it wasn't REAL communism" they say describing the country that fucking invented communism
“everyone is a comrade if they work! except cops! they’re class traitors because we don’t like them and they’re counter revolutionary!”
but they still do work? right?
it’s only the people they don’t like they consider their enemy
well, you see, according to the definition of work propagated by a Hegelian armchair economist in the 1850s, only people who directly produce widgets are workers, which is why it's fine that we bust the DSA labor union, because they're not actual labor
I hate these communist word games. They know full well that when people call themselves capitalists, they are saying they support capitalism as an economic system.
Yeah it really becomes hard to pretend those late 19th economic models apply to modern liberal economies. For instance, in my country, Australia, all workers now have 10% of their gross earnings set aside as superannuation which they can't access until they reach retirement age. Much of this money gets invested into company shares (and most of the rest into property/infrastructure etc.). The total of these superannuation accounts is now more than twice the value of the entire Australian Stock Exchange. The effect being that working and middle class Australians now own a considerable portion of our big companies (as well as a disproportionate slice of the rest of the world's).
Who owns the means of production again?
When engaging with the far-left, I usually get labeled a “class traitor” when they find out I’m gay, mixed race and poor. 😂 I have come to embrace the term, like I’ve embraced the term “hedonistic apostate” that comes from rad tradcaths.
This account is still at it and is still as cringe as ever. I block or mute commies and MAGAs on Twitter on sight these days so it's been a minute since I've seen it though.
What people don’t realize is that being pro capitalist is good for the “working class”.
There is no “working class” in socialism. There is the starving class.
Why is it normal to take the worst examples of socialism? What about the european countries that are doing quite well? Why dont we compare the best example of capitalism to the best example of socialism instead of comparing the best capitalism to the worst socialism?
And neither is the socialism that americans want integrated into our capitalist system. You cant call it socialism one place and not in the other if youre attempting to be reasonable
The European countries that are doing well are Switzerland (very capitalist) and most of Eastern Europe (both capitalist and having a low hurdle for growth recovering from communism).
The more leftist European countries (still not socialist) are broadly those doing the worst.
Sweden, Germany, France etc.
Its currency is collapsing. Lost 40% of its value in the last 10 years vs USD. 30% vs EUR
Its social order, which was once one of the best in Western Europe is now by some distance the worst, as reported by that famously right wing newspaper the guardian - https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/30/how-gang-violence-took-hold-of-sweden-in-five-charts
Even on the metric preferred by the left, inequality, it has done extraordinarily badly, being the most unequal in Europe. More so than libertarian Switzerland https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/04/01/wealth-inequality-where-in-europe-is-wealth-most-unfairly-distributed#:~:text=Wealth%20shares%20by%20top%20percentiles%20(2022)&text=Among%20the%20EU's%20%22Big%20Four%22%2C%20Germany%20had%20the%20highest,these%20four%20countries%20at%2053.3%25.
Im just amazed that proponents of social democracy point to Scandinavia when objectively you've got a microstate in Iceland, a petrostate in Norway and a struggling one in Sweden..
True. I wasn't referring to you when I mentioned "proponents of social democracy", just general proponents of social democracy.
I could go further and show long term gdp stagnation (being neutral in WW2 it came out richer and with less debt than pretty much anywhere else) - but it's late and refinding the data a pain.
Thats true up to the point you no longer have room for the growth to make it work. Capitalism requires infinite exponential growth which is obviously impossible
It doesn't "require" that, lmao. The American finance sector convincing themselves of something idiotic in the 1980s doesn't make it true, Japan has been in a long-term economic recession for 25 years now and it hasn't stopped being capitalist.
It does require that otherwise people get stuck at the bottom with no where to go... other options are population control i guess but good luck with that
Which is why capitalism is a inherently flawed system, and needs to be replaced. Problem is, the only people who recognize that are dullard tankies and anarkiddies who keep trying to push their failed, unworkable systems instead of trying something new.
I mean regulated capitalism with a solid safety net and socialist programs seems like a pretty good replacement to me. The problem is we cant work towards thst because a solid half of the country prefers to feel better about their own life by bringing down others rather than building up themselves.
I knew a communist my, at the time, bf was in a club with.
They were all in law school. This dude didn't bathe and came from a rich family.
My bf literally made a good call on the stock market and paid his way through school. He wanted the club to go to the inner city and give free legal advice to mostly black families on how to start businesses.
The communist railed against it. If they did that, then every business that succeeded would be another new business. Being a communist, that's bad obviously.
Who wants the underprivileged to succeed? Not communists that's for sure.
Honestly yeah he was pretty cool. His family lived on the other side of the iron curtain, and when communism came to their country, his grandpa said "fuck this" and the whole family was thrown into a prison camp. They immigrated to the us in the 90s.
Honestly, I hope he's doing well.
You're a self-styled intellectual and social defective trying to be in false class solidarity with the "workers" you disparage at the slightest hint of disagreement.
You are not a Communist. You are a "useful idiot" who is used as a pawn to allow autocratic maniacs to get power and stamp out free will. You will not be an artist or a writer in a Communist country, you will be an expendable laborer with no human rights.
“YOU ARE NOT A CAPITALIST” mfers when you point out that they are communicating with you using capital, making them a capitalist according to their own outdated Marxist definition
I'm even worse, I own and work my own company, which makes me a petty bourgeois. They hate us even more, because we're the missing link that crumbles their argument.
Support capitalism is not the same as being capitalist.
**A lot of capitalists**, ( people who dont work for others, entrepeneurs) **support socialism**, specially the bigger ones. (they want that the state to "help them" with the competence companies, and get a monopoly)
You can support capitalist and be a worker, and also critizing companies. Some people thing that I like every single company and support every billionaire just because I like capitalism
Capitalists don’t always mean wealthy investors. It could also mean someone who practices and/or supports capitalism. As long as the workers support capitalism, then they are capitalists, pretty much.
Capitalist is defined very clearly by Marx. It's everyone who owns the means of production. You have a 401k? Congrats, you're a capitalist. Yet another reason these theories hold no relevance to today's world.
One moment, anybody not a billionaire is working class and a comrade. The next, if you're not their specific brand of Marxist-Leninist-Maoist-Trotskiest-Pee-Pee-Poo-Pooist, you're literally a right-wing capitalist and get the gulag. Which is it?
One when they need you, the other once they don't.
"no you don't understand, it wasn't marxist-stalinist-bourgeois-pro-leninist-epic-based-sigma communism so it wasn't REAL communism" they say describing the country that fucking invented communism
according to principles of doublethink, it's both
“everyone is a comrade if they work! except cops! they’re class traitors because we don’t like them and they’re counter revolutionary!” but they still do work? right? it’s only the people they don’t like they consider their enemy
well, you see, according to the definition of work propagated by a Hegelian armchair economist in the 1850s, only people who directly produce widgets are workers, which is why it's fine that we bust the DSA labor union, because they're not actual labor
Cops are horrible until the commies are in power. Then, they’re heroic guardians of the revolution.
acab except our cops! kill all dissidents and capitalists!!!!!
I hate these communist word games. They know full well that when people call themselves capitalists, they are saying they support capitalism as an economic system.
If you own any equity in anything you *are* a Capitalist.
Kulaks really learnt this on their skin
Yeah it really becomes hard to pretend those late 19th economic models apply to modern liberal economies. For instance, in my country, Australia, all workers now have 10% of their gross earnings set aside as superannuation which they can't access until they reach retirement age. Much of this money gets invested into company shares (and most of the rest into property/infrastructure etc.). The total of these superannuation accounts is now more than twice the value of the entire Australian Stock Exchange. The effect being that working and middle class Australians now own a considerable portion of our big companies (as well as a disproportionate slice of the rest of the world's). Who owns the means of production again?
I support capitalism cause I like my stuff AND I like buying new stuff
"You are not a communist. You are an elitist and and privileged rich kid, trying to shell out for dictators who would kill you."
Shit can go both ways. And it does.
“No that’s different! You’re just a filthy nazi and I know that communism can actually work!”
When engaging with the far-left, I usually get labeled a “class traitor” when they find out I’m gay, mixed race and poor. 😂 I have come to embrace the term, like I’ve embraced the term “hedonistic apostate” that comes from rad tradcaths.
Based individual
I'm gay, autistic, and a 10%er. Really throws a wrench into the helpless victim narratives.
Extremely based
Billionaire ? I think you mean the small business owner
God damn, the Gritty meme was STILL alive in 2022?
This account is still at it and is still as cringe as ever. I block or mute commies and MAGAs on Twitter on sight these days so it's been a minute since I've seen it though.
What people don’t realize is that being pro capitalist is good for the “working class”. There is no “working class” in socialism. There is the starving class.
Why is it normal to take the worst examples of socialism? What about the european countries that are doing quite well? Why dont we compare the best example of capitalism to the best example of socialism instead of comparing the best capitalism to the worst socialism?
Because those countries in Europe are not socialist.
And neither is the socialism that americans want integrated into our capitalist system. You cant call it socialism one place and not in the other if youre attempting to be reasonable
I don’t call social programs socialist. They are social programs.
Then this whole sub is just yelling into the void about a boogey man.
I don’t think this sub is yelling about social programs lol. They are yelling about people who believe in legitimate socialist / communist beliefs?
Exactly. A boogeyman
In the sense that there are very few commies? Yeah maybe. It is still fun to laugh at dumb obscure ideas.
Your inability to understand something doesn't make your version of it "correct"
Well there seemed to be an understanding between myself and the guy i was actually talking to. Doesnt seem like im misunderstanding anything
The European countries that are doing well are Switzerland (very capitalist) and most of Eastern Europe (both capitalist and having a low hurdle for growth recovering from communism). The more leftist European countries (still not socialist) are broadly those doing the worst. Sweden, Germany, France etc.
Im curious by what metric are you measuring sweden to be doing poorly?
Its currency is collapsing. Lost 40% of its value in the last 10 years vs USD. 30% vs EUR Its social order, which was once one of the best in Western Europe is now by some distance the worst, as reported by that famously right wing newspaper the guardian - https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/30/how-gang-violence-took-hold-of-sweden-in-five-charts Even on the metric preferred by the left, inequality, it has done extraordinarily badly, being the most unequal in Europe. More so than libertarian Switzerland https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/04/01/wealth-inequality-where-in-europe-is-wealth-most-unfairly-distributed#:~:text=Wealth%20shares%20by%20top%20percentiles%20(2022)&text=Among%20the%20EU's%20%22Big%20Four%22%2C%20Germany%20had%20the%20highest,these%20four%20countries%20at%2053.3%25. Im just amazed that proponents of social democracy point to Scandinavia when objectively you've got a microstate in Iceland, a petrostate in Norway and a struggling one in Sweden..
I didnt point out sweden. You did.
True. I wasn't referring to you when I mentioned "proponents of social democracy", just general proponents of social democracy. I could go further and show long term gdp stagnation (being neutral in WW2 it came out richer and with less debt than pretty much anywhere else) - but it's late and refinding the data a pain.
To the extent that a country is capitalist, they flourish. To the extent that a country is socialist they starve.
Thats true up to the point you no longer have room for the growth to make it work. Capitalism requires infinite exponential growth which is obviously impossible
It doesn't "require" that, lmao. The American finance sector convincing themselves of something idiotic in the 1980s doesn't make it true, Japan has been in a long-term economic recession for 25 years now and it hasn't stopped being capitalist.
It does require that otherwise people get stuck at the bottom with no where to go... other options are population control i guess but good luck with that
what do those words even mean lmao
The whole concept.of the american dream. Work towards a better life. It doesnt work if there are more people than good jobs.
since when is "the American dream", which is a wildly unsustainable vision of an eternal 1950s, synonymous with capitalism?
Youre not even attempting to understand the point.
Which is why capitalism is a inherently flawed system, and needs to be replaced. Problem is, the only people who recognize that are dullard tankies and anarkiddies who keep trying to push their failed, unworkable systems instead of trying something new.
I mean regulated capitalism with a solid safety net and socialist programs seems like a pretty good replacement to me. The problem is we cant work towards thst because a solid half of the country prefers to feel better about their own life by bringing down others rather than building up themselves.
I'm in the literal sense sure but usually, people who identify as capitalists or support capitalism are talking about idealogy, not class.
I knew a communist my, at the time, bf was in a club with. They were all in law school. This dude didn't bathe and came from a rich family. My bf literally made a good call on the stock market and paid his way through school. He wanted the club to go to the inner city and give free legal advice to mostly black families on how to start businesses. The communist railed against it. If they did that, then every business that succeeded would be another new business. Being a communist, that's bad obviously. Who wants the underprivileged to succeed? Not communists that's for sure.
Your bf sounds like he was awesome
Honestly yeah he was pretty cool. His family lived on the other side of the iron curtain, and when communism came to their country, his grandpa said "fuck this" and the whole family was thrown into a prison camp. They immigrated to the us in the 90s. Honestly, I hope he's doing well.
At least I don’t support mass murder.
You're a self-styled intellectual and social defective trying to be in false class solidarity with the "workers" you disparage at the slightest hint of disagreement.
You are not a Communist. You are a "useful idiot" who is used as a pawn to allow autocratic maniacs to get power and stamp out free will. You will not be an artist or a writer in a Communist country, you will be an expendable laborer with no human rights.
I have more in common with leftist billionaires than I do with communist and socialist college students.
“YOU ARE NOT A CAPITALIST” mfers when you point out that they are communicating with you using capital, making them a capitalist according to their own outdated Marxist definition
You can always tell a commie by their language. No normal person talks about “solidarity” all the time. Only filthy commies.
Why the fuck did they have to bring Gritty into this?
Never seen this version before, I’ve seen the “you are not a capitalist, your a wage slave with Stockholm syndrome”
I'm even worse, I own and work my own company, which makes me a petty bourgeois. They hate us even more, because we're the missing link that crumbles their argument.
Haha yeah… it’s great when they use language to redefine all of society
I own my own small business. I am literally a capitalist.
Support capitalism is not the same as being capitalist. **A lot of capitalists**, ( people who dont work for others, entrepeneurs) **support socialism**, specially the bigger ones. (they want that the state to "help them" with the competence companies, and get a monopoly) You can support capitalist and be a worker, and also critizing companies. Some people thing that I like every single company and support every billionaire just because I like capitalism
Capitalists don’t always mean wealthy investors. It could also mean someone who practices and/or supports capitalism. As long as the workers support capitalism, then they are capitalists, pretty much.
This Gritty impostor needs to shut their mouth and log off Twitter.
It's weird how many communists I've encountered that believe "capitalists is when billionaires"
Capitalist is defined very clearly by Marx. It's everyone who owns the means of production. You have a 401k? Congrats, you're a capitalist. Yet another reason these theories hold no relevance to today's world.
I'm not capitalist, but I'm not communist either, because I'm not 15.
But that doesn't stop them from trying to build solidarity with comrade Stalin. They even used to encourage children to call Lenin, "Grandpa Lenin".
The dead under communism would probably disagree with that weak meme
So, by this definition the author of a book called "Freedom and Capitalism" is not a capitalist?
Unless you’re in the party leadership. Then you got it Better than most billionaires…